Question:

flyfish writes: Passing this along to Muddie, we’ll probably do just an overnighter to whet our whistles etc. maybe even fish Flyfish

If you plan on staying at Lakewood, you’ll have to make reservations with Sue. Info is on the clave web site.  There are ways to walk in, however, and I’m sure you are aware of them.  <g   Hope to see you there, as well as Mudfish…… Dave

Response:

flyfish writes: Passing this along to Muddie, we’ll probably do just an overnighter to whet our whistles etc. maybe even fish Flyfish If you plan on staying at Lakewood, you’ll have to make reservations with Sue. Info is on the clave web site.  There are ways to walk in, however, and I’m sure you are aware of them.  <g   Hope to see you there, as well as Mudfish……

Knowing Ed and Dave, they’ll probably sleep in the truck…if they haven’t gotten it stuck somewhere. Dave B: if you come in from Wilson’s, use the NEW road. There’s a bridge missing on the Old Middledam Road… /daytripper (whose Pathfinder nearly "found" Sturtevant Stream one night)

Response:

Having never been myself I’ll have to let Mud navigate. Lemme see, if we leave early the 10th we should be there for the camp breaking exercises. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – flyfish writes: Passing this along to Muddie, we’ll probably do just an overnighter to whet our whistles etc. maybe even fish Flyfish If you plan on staying at Lakewood, you’ll have to make reservations with Sue. Info is on the clave web site.  There are ways to walk in, however, and I’m sure you are aware of them.  <g   Hope to see you there, as well as Mudfish…… Knowing Ed and Dave, they’ll probably sleep in the truck…if they haven’t gotten it stuck somewhere. Dave B: if you come in from Wilson’s, use the NEW road. There’s a bridge missing on the Old Middledam Road… /daytripper (whose Pathfinder nearly "found" Sturtevant Stream one night)

Response:

Is there one? Where might it be? Mudfish and I may attend after all being as it’s all of an hour and a bit drive from my place Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Passing this along to Muddie, we’ll probably do just an overnighter to whet our whistles etc. maybe even fish Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go to Paul Goodwin’s site: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/maineclave2000.html Hope to see you and Mudfish there. Dave Dave LaCourse

Response:

flyfish writes: Is there one? Where might it be? Mudfish and I may attend after all being as it’s all of an hour and a bit drive from my place Flyfish

Go to Paul Goodwin’s site: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/maineclave2000.html Hope to see you and Mudfish there. Dave Dave LaCourse

Response:

The thread I started a month or so back to announce the web page went off topic and down hill fast. You can find the site at: http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/maineclave2000.html Day_tripper supplied most of the photos for the flies. The one pattern I need a good photo of is a strawman. If anyone has one please email it to me. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there one? Where might it be? Mudfish and I may attend after all being as it’s all of an hour and a bit drive from my place Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Question:

Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds.

Backpacking and fishing rarely really go together in Texas.   On the other hand though, canoe/kayaking and fishing are a pretty decent fit in Texas. If you are dedicated to backpack fishing, Arkansas is probably a better experience. The Texas coastline could be largely backpacked, but I doubt its the type of experience you want. You could backpack in Big Bend and fish the Rio Grande, but the Rio Grande is not exactly the most pristine river in the world…. But grab a canoe or kayak and the possibilities for fishing and camping become nearly limitless. .

Response:

I recently read your request on where to hike fish camp in ok,ar,tx you might try Beavers bend state park in the S.E. coner of OK it has trails that take up to several days to complete the country is very beautiful this time of year it is in the ouichata national forest and is a favorite af my wife and mine the hiking trail goes all the way around the lake and it is a very large lake lots af trees and mountains – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.

Response:

Any suggestions for places to combine backpacking and fishing in Texas, Okla. or Arkansas?  I never learned to fly-fish, but I’ll fish rivers, streams, lakes or ponds. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hey Bill,     Do you ever fish for them with Dries Skated on the surface? That’s a popular tactic up here on many rivers for their bigger brothers so I was just curious how well they took a skated fly. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, September is one of the top months for these small trout sized steelhead. They are 16" and bigger with fish over 20".  Mat Johnson of Kiene’s Fly Shop caught a 27" fish this week. This is the best return we have had in 3 or 4 years. I would try from Goethe Park  downstream to Pardise Beach. Morning and evening is best when the light level in lower.  We use #5, #6 or #7 weight outfits with floating lines in the AM and PM so we can swing wet flies down and accoss to these hot fish. In the day time you can use sinktip lines or indicator fish in the riffles. We use a 9′ 3x leader. We like #8, 10 and 12 wet flies. Some popular patterns are any small steelhead pattern like the Brindle Bug, Assassin, Renegade, Coachman, Burlap and Silver Hilton.  Many trout nymphs or soft hackle wets work well like the This same fishing is happening on the lower Klamath and lower Rogue Rivers as I type this info.

Response:

Hi All, September is one of the top months for these small trout sized steelhead. They are 16" and bigger with fish over 20".  Mat Johnson of Kiene’s Fly Shop caught a 27" fish this week. This is the best return we have had in 3 or 4 years. I would try from Goethe Park  downstream to Pardise Beach. Morning and evening is best when the light level in lower.  We use #5, #6 or #7 weight outfits with floating lines in the AM and PM so we can swing wet flies down and accoss to these hot fish. In the day time you can use sinktip lines or indicator fish in the riffles. We use a 9′ 3x leader. We like #8, 10 and 12 wet flies. Some popular patterns are any small steelhead pattern like the Brindle Bug, Assassin, Renegade, Coachman, Burlap and Silver Hilton.  Many trout nymphs or soft hackle wets work well like the This same fishing is happening on the lower Klamath and lower Rogue Rivers as I type this info.

Response:

Question:

I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market. Thanks Roger

Response:

Winston rods are the most beautiful rods to look at and to cast.  They are not "parking lot" rods like Sage, Loomis, etc. (rods intended to impress with distance).  They fish wonderfully at the distances intended and protect light tippets.  I own three, a 7′ #2, a 8.5′ #3, and a 9′ #5, all IM6.  The 8.5 #3 (3 piece) is my first choice for dry flies on lakes (no wind) or small streams and spring creeks.  I own several Sage rods, and prefer the LL series, the RPL series have been good lake and nymphing rods for me.

Response:

I have a Hexagraph 8 1/2′ 7 wt, Sage RPL+ 9′ 6 wt, a Cortland Graphite 9′ 6 wt and a Winston 7 1/2′ 4wt.  I will never give up that Winston.  I really like the Sage, my son has the Cortland, the Hexagraph looks good on the wall, but that Winston blows everything else away.  Bar none, it is the best rod I ever used in 35 years of flyfishing.  It feels like an extension of my arm. Kevin

Response:

Buying a Winston is like buying a Mercedes Benz.  Will other rods throw a line to where the fish are? You bet!  Will they feel as nice a Winston? Maybe not.  Will another rod look as good as a Winston? Probably not. I have a couple of Winston rods (along with Sage’s Powell’s and a couple of other).  The Winston fishes out to about 40′ as good or better than any of the rod’s in my quiver.  So I guess it comes down to, Do you want the Mercedes or a Chevy. Just my two cents…. Wes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market. Thanks Roger

Response:

I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market.

Nobody makes as sweet a set of trouting rods as Winston. I have three of them – ranging from a 7′6"/2wt to a 9′/5wt, and they are my favorites. I currently have no fewer than 20 fishable fly rods, mostly graphite but a few cane rods as well, with Sage, GLoomis, Thomas & Thomas, Orvis, Powell, and Lamiglas in the mix, and the Winstons are the ones I use the most. If your casting style suits them, there *aren’t* any other available rods on the market ;^) /dave

Response:

Question:

When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books.   — jm

Response:

Gordon MacQuarrie stories, published in the 40’s and 50’s in outdoor magazines, were collected in 3 volumes as "Stories of the Old Duck Hunters", "More Stories of the ODHs" and (I think) "Last Stories of the ODHs".  About half the stories are hunting, half are fishing, mainly on the Brule.  Then there was a fourth volume, "Lost Stories of the ODH", which was stuff they missed the first time thru. Gordon MacQuarrie is my favorite fishing author.  Traver and Gierach and others get as good occasionally, but every MacQuarrie story is excellent.  Henry VanDyke is a close second.   Frank Stetzer                        "…a cheerful comrade is better Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer."  Henry Van Dyke, Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA     "Fisherman’s Luck", 1899. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books.   — jm

Response:

When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books.   — jm

Its a good bet that it was Gordon MacQuarrie. Check out this book (info from http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1572230258/t/002-4166657-7704468) I got this book for Christmas and have read it twice already. Jim Fly Fishing With MacQuarrie by Zack Taylor, Gordon MacQuarrie List: $19.50 Our Price: $13.65 You Save: $5.85 (30%) Availability: This title usually ships within 2-3 days. Hardcover Published by Willow Creek Pr Dimensions (in inches): 0.97 x 10.26 x 7.23 ISBN: 1572230258 — Jim Jacoby Mt. Horeb, WI To send a reply, remove "-take_this_out-" from the address.

Response:

When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books.  

Beats me!  I used to fish the brule a lot when I was a kid, and learned to flyfish there. To me it still stands as one of the most beautiful trout rivers on this planet – absolutely gorgeous.   I don’t reacll anyone writng about it at length.  There has been an article or two, and honorable mentions in guidebooks. It was in it’s time VERY popular nationally.  Teddy Roosevelt fished the Cedar Island water.  Calvin Coolidge liked the Brule so much they named the hwy that follows it south from US 2 after him.  Dwight Eisenhower had friends with a house at the lower end of Big Lake, and fished there often. I suspect that many other notables fished there too. If there is a book out there that speaks of the Brule, I’d love to find a copy. BTW:  what prompted this teacher to use that book.  Why did it stick with you?  have you ever been there?  A thread on the Brule would be a pleasant diversion – I do have a story or two of my own about her. </chaz

Response:

Perhaps we had the same teacher.  My fourth grade teacher read me "Rascal", by Sterling North.   This is a heart-rendering book set in Southern Wisconsin, during the 1910’s, about a boy and his pet racoon.  Part of the book relates the wonderful trip that Sterling and Rascal had to northern Wisconsin, much of it along the Brule.  I recently read the book to my children and they love the story as much as I did then and still do now.  A definite top ten book in my life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books. — jm

Response:

Thanks for the help from folks.  To answer Chaz’s questions.  I think he read from it because he loved fishing.  I think I remember it because it sounded like such a great place and it was in Wisconsin.   My question was prompted because I work at Wisc Public Television and we are working on a show about fishing in Wisconsin for Aug 99 and the Brule will be featured in the show.   jm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW:  what prompted this teacher to use that book.  Why did it stick with you?  have you ever been there?  A thread on the Brule would be a pleasant diversion – I do have a story or two of my own about her. </chaz

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gordon MacQuarrie stories, published in the 40’s and 50’s in outdoor magazines, were collected in 3 volumes as "Stories of the Old Duck Hunters", "More Stories of the ODHs" and (I think) "Last Stories of the ODHs".  About half the stories are hunting, half are fishing, mainly on the Brule.  Then there was a fourth volume, "Lost Stories of the ODH", which was stuff they missed the first time thru. Gordon MacQuarrie is my favorite fishing author.  Traver and Gierach and others get as good occasionally, but every MacQuarrie story is excellent.  Henry VanDyke is a close second. Frank Stetzer                        "…a cheerful comrade is better Employed by, but not speaking for     foot-warmer."  Henry Van Dyke, Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA     "Fisherman’s Luck", 1899. When I was young, a teacher of mine read from a book about fly fishing on the Brule river in Wisconsin.  Wondering if anyone knows the name of that writer or the name of any of those books. — jm

This is my first post in a NG.  Absolutely, yessir, right on, AMEN. MacQuarrie is without peer.  Every one of his short stories a classic. I fished the Bois Brule in Northwestern WI (not to be confused with the "Border Brule" in Upper Michigan) for the first time last summer.  It was just great visiting the places MacQuarrie mentions in his writings.  It was like visiting an old friend.  I will be back again this year.  Then maybe someday the Roaring Fork and Frying Pan in CO and maybe someday the Yellowstone area with all the great spots out there.   Then maybe ….?

Response:

<snip   My question was prompted because I work at Wisc Public Television and we are working on a show about fishing in Wisconsin for Aug 99 and the Brule will be featured in the show.   jm

Kewl! If you have any say in what gets filmed take a look at the water around Cedar Island.  Used be a resort/lodge – lately owned by the Ordway family.  Classic, beautiful trout water.  I used to sneak into the lower end when I was a kid, and fish my brains out. Teddy Rooselvelt fished there.  Stories tell that before teddy arrived, the folks at the hatchery downriver in Brule netted out a bunch of big brood fish they usually kept in a big pool, put them in one of the rearing runs and starved them for a couple days.  The day before The Man arrived at Cedar Island they turned these hungry monsters loose in a side channel with pools the lodge owners had dug for their guests.  The President would be assured of "good fishing". Another good run would be just below Big Lake.  Wildcat Rapids.  There’s no public access to this water except by canoe, so it won’t be real crowded.  This was my favorite stretch as a kid.  The Caretaker for one of the properties there was a friend of my Grandpa’s and would let us in when the owners weren’t around.  I’d give my eyeteeth to get back in there, I can tell you.  In fact there could be an angle here – local boy returns to his favorite water after 30 years – hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm – pay my way out and I’ll talk to my agent;-).  After we’re done filming, we’ll ditch the camera ops and I’ll take you over to the White. And I’d love to see your show. </chaz

Response:

This is a copy of a press release about a Wisconsin fishing program in current production.  If you have stories or if you know great story tellers, we’d like to see and hear it.  Get your hands on a video camera and follow the instructions below.  Thanks.   xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :-  xxx :- xxx :-  xxx :-  

FISH TALES SOUGHT FOR Wisconsin Public Television SPECIAL         It’s been said that every angler has a great story to tell, and Wisconsin Public Television wants to hear yours!         WPT is preparing a special on fishing in Wisconsin that will air in August 1999.  As part of the effort, we’re seeking fish stories from anglers all over Wisconsin.         "We’re looking for all kinds of tales," says producer JoAnne Garrett. "Not just the stories about the biggest fish or the longest struggle, although we’d like those, too.  We also want to hear about how fishing helped form family bonds and family memories, stories about fishing that touch the heart."         Tale spinners with humorous stories also are sought.         Stories should be documented on VHS tape with a video camera.  Send tapes to: Fish Tales, c/o JoAnne Garrett, Wisconsin Public Television, 821 University Ave., Madison WI 53706.  Deadline is Sept. 1.  If you want your tape returned, please enclose a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Jon Miskowski Wisconsin Public Television

Response:

Question:

        I’ll second the Wekiva River Trip from Katie’s Landing.  Did that in a private boat last year with their shuttling….  Their’s is a good and responsible operation.  If you haven’t seen Florida rivers much this one’s a good intro.  I saw all the FL species of herons, plus limpkins, etc. on this run.         Joe P.

Response:

If you want to drive a little further south (typically warmer as well) to North Palm Beach, you can rent Kayaks from The Adventure Times. They have regular guided tours to the Everglades and other local spots including intracoastal and ocean Call em at 407 881-7218 I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

Bob Denton President Gulf Stream International Boynton Beach, Florida Manufacturers of Sink the Stink The Water Sport Deodorizer That Really Works! For information on Boynton Beach, FL Scuba: http://www.flinet.com/gulfstream/scuba.html

Response:

I go to the Cape Canaveral area often.  Fishing for redfish on the flats there is nice.  There is a non-powered only area north of 528 on the Bannanna river also.  You can rent from Extreme Sports, but they are not on the way, being about twenty south from the Cape.  Patrick AFB also rents to military types.  But all they have is small sit on tops.   If you want somethind exciting, the St Johns river, which runs from near the coast where I live, North through Deland.  The Manatees winter at Blue Springs by Deland.  They rent boats there. I’ve gone just North of lake Washington near the coast.  It is very small at that point, so all you will see is the occasional airboater.  The gators there are the biggest I’ve seen.  I fly helicopters for a living, so I’ve seen plenty.  They will probably be staying under the water in early Jan.  In late Feb, they are laying out.  Seeing them on the shore is not scary.  What is is when they shoot down the twenty foot wide stream right under your boat, leaving a wake like the Creature from the black lagoon. I will only take my big two person there, as my 14′ single might lead a big bull gator to think "Yea, I can take him".  

Response:

I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for … Jason

PalnJones is right on with Wekiva.  This is a fantastic paddle (for Florida-no ww).  There is a Wekiva State Park & they rent canoes (not sure about kayaks) through a concessionaire (Kings Landings Canoe).   Kings Landing is the Place to put in and go to the Marina (I’ve been, I had my own kayak with me).  Fabulous river (for Florida).  There is a kayak/canoe/outdoor store in Orlando called something like Travel Country – in yellow pages under canoes – they can help with directions & maybe rentals.  It is 10-20 mile paddle depending where you go and the Kings Landing folks will run shuttle for you. kevin

Response:

I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment.

Jason: I would second the recommendation David made about Wekiva Springs; just north of Orlando but literally a wilderness area along the edges of the city.  Wekiva State Park has a well stocked canoe livery and there is also a private company called Katies Wekiva River Landing that rents canoes.  Katies has routes of 6, 9, 12 or 19 miles.  I’ve hiked all along Wekiva and have seen the operation…very professional.  However, I personally have not taken the trips.  Never heard anything bad though.. Katies Info: Toll free from Orlando 628-1482      Other calls 407 332-4470 Ranger station Wekiwa River State Park    407 884-2009 If kayaking is your game, Travel Country Outdoors in Orlando 407 831-0777 does not rent anything but they do have a half day guided trip to Cape Canaveral NWR.  Another kayaking outfitter that does half-day guided trips (maybe rentals) is Agua Azul in Clearwater (near Tampa) 813 530-7555.  They have one trip "closer" to Orlando that is on the historic Hillsborough River out of the Tampa area.  It takes us 1.25 hours to get there from where we live near Disney.  My wife and I have done both of these trips and from a purely novice point of view had a GREAT TIME! Happy Holidays! Robert   Orlando

Response:

I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

Response:

I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

There is a nice flat water (what else would it be) paddle on the Wekiva River, putting on near Apopka.  The water is crystal clear, and we saw alligators (small) the time we did it. There is at least one canoe livery, but I don’t remember the name.  Check the Yellow Pages. David

Response:

Question:

What would the best ff be within easy reach of Vancouver in April?  Have to make a business trip to Asia and thought it might be worth doing a stopover — if it’s not too early in the season.  Steelhead?  Sea-run cutthroats?  Thanks for any info. George

Response:

: What would the best ff be within easy reach of Vancouver in April?  Have : to make a business trip to Asia and thought it might be worth doing a : stopover — if it’s not too early in the season.  Steelhead?  Sea-run : cutthroats?  Thanks for any info. If you’re early enough in April, there might still be some late-winter steelhead available in the Capilano (from downtown Van, take Georgia through Stanley Park and across the Lions Gate Bridge and you’re there; the Cap forms the boundary between North Van and West Van). That’s probably the closest; other options at that time of year include the Squamish and the Vedder, both of which are an hour or two away. Hopefully, the guys who live in Vancouver year-round can give more details; in the time I lived there, I was always a student, meaning that April started with final exams and ended with heading out of town to my summer jobs 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

Vedder River steelies would probably be your best bet, if the river’s in shape.

Response:

Suggest you look into fishing the Harrison River for Sea Run cutt’s. this can be a great time when the chum salmon fry move downstream and cutt’s cut through the dense schooles of fry. Kelly Davidson of Babcok Fly and tackle in Coquitlam BC. is A-1 one on knwoledge on this fishery; he guides as well. Squamish River has large steelhead and beautifull scenery. Arpil is prime time but runs have been low. Vedder amy be alrightfor FF at that time but it isn’t the best for FF steelhead.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : a good definition of the term bifluorescence : I’m not an entomologist, but I do make my living observing : fluorescence.  I : don’t believe I’ve ever heard the term… is it specific to insects? : I would be interested in knowing about fish perception … : Are trout more sensitive to UV, vis or IR radiation? : What exactly, do fish "see?" : As one might guess based on the fact that Rick hasn’t heard of this, it is : indeed a highly obscure term.  I ran it by a few of my colleagues who use : fluorescent tags in their work and some others who work on vision. : Several of : us could loosely be referred to as entomologists.  None were familiar : with it, : although we did manage to dig up a few recent references that use the : adjective : bifluorescent, in each case referring to things (not insects or any other : kind : of fish food) that fluoresce at two different wavelengths.  This may not be : very satisfying, but it does make sense. Could be, but everything fluoresces at multiple wavelengths except the very expensive lasers or the much less expensive diode lasers.  I thinbk you refer to organism or compounds that fluoresce with two discernible *peak* intensities.  In any case, another thread indicates the original poster meant "biofluorescence".  But lets ignore that for now and talk about the rest of your post. : Of perhaps more significance is the skepticism with which the vision types : greeted the possibility that fluorescence could be significant with : regard to : surface feeding.  There’s so much ambient light that fluorescence would : not be : likely to be important.  In contrast, at depths where light becomes more : monochromatic, fluorescence could indeed become significant. Excellent point, and rephrased, it is simialr to the fact that stars in the sky cannot be seen at night even though they are there.  Only when ambient light levels drop at night can the stars be seen against the background.  A fish looking up at the sky will see high amounts of ambient UV. I know that water begins to absorb light strongly near 200 nanometers. The UV is usually defined as wavelengths shorter than 400 nanometers or so.  This leaves a window from approximately 220 nm – 400 nm of UV open for transmission through water. : As for what fish see, there was a decent article in Fly Fisherman (?) a few : years back on how trout see.  As I recall, it dealt mostly with the : windows of : visibility and visual acuity, but there was also some stuff about color : vision. :  I don’t have the info on spectral sensitivity for trout specifically, : but many : fish are known to be sensitive to UV. Specifics are always good. : As an aside, for what it’s worth, I’ve never paid much attention to the : information on trout spectral sensitivities.  While I know that there are : many : who swear by exacting attention to colors, it’s been my experience that color : isn’t all that important.  I’m not quite ready for the "Adams for everything" : approach (although I know it works well for some, at least), but light, : medium : and dark has usually worked just fine. I would say that specific colors, like green or orange, will work well on specific days.  BTW, I would guess that most of the synthetic materials fluoresce in around 250 nm. :  My experience, which may not be : typical, has likely been colored by my propensity for fishing small : dries, but : I had a little chuckle when a colleague who works on vision suggested : that most : likely all the fish usually see is a silhouette. Especially the ones down deep.  Scattering would be a real hindrance to correct color perception for fish that are deep.  (Except of course on Idaho streams, where the water is so clear one must get out of the rivers to pee in their waders.) : Bummer, Rick.  Maybe it would look better under UV. Bring out the black lights… it’s time to party! — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Who said that?

Response:

: : a good definition of the term bifluorescence : I’m not an entomologist, but I do make my living observing : fluorescence.  I : don’t believe I’ve ever heard the term… is it specific to insects? : I would be interested in knowing about fish perception … : Are trout more sensitive to UV, vis or IR radiation? : What exactly, do fish "see?" : As one might guess based on the fact that Rick hasn’t heard of this, it is : indeed a highly obscure term.  I ran it by a few of my colleagues who use : fluorescent tags in their work and some others who work on vision.   : Several of : us could loosely be referred to as entomologists.  None were familiar : with it, : although we did manage to dig up a few recent references that use the : adjective : bifluorescent, in each case referring to things (not insects or any other : kind : of fish food) that fluoresce at two different wavelengths.  This may not be : very satisfying, but it does make sense. Could be, but everything fluoresces at multiple wavelengths except the very expensive lasers or the much less expensive diode lasers.  I thinbk you refer to organism or compounds that fluoresce with two discernible *peak* intensities.  In any case, another thread indicates the original poster meant "biofluorescence".  But lets ignore that for now and talk about the rest of your post.   : Of perhaps more significance is the skepticism with which the vision types : greeted the possibility that fluorescence could be significant with : regard to : surface feeding.  There’s so much ambient light that fluorescence would : not be : likely to be important.  In contrast, at depths where light becomes more : monochromatic, fluorescence could indeed become significant. Excellent point, and rephrased, it is simialr to the fact that stars in the sky cannot be seen at night even though they are there.  Only when ambient light levels drop at night can the stars be seen against the background.  A fish looking up at the sky will see high amounts of ambient UV. I know that water begins to absorb light strongly near 200 nanometers. The UV is usually defined as wavelengths shorter than 400 nanometers or so.  This leaves a window from approximately 220 nm – 400 nm of UV open for transmission through water. : As for what fish see, there was a decent article in Fly Fisherman (?) a few : years back on how trout see.  As I recall, it dealt mostly with the : windows of : visibility and visual acuity, but there was also some stuff about color : vision. :  I don’t have the info on spectral sensitivity for trout specifically, : but many : fish are known to be sensitive to UV. Specifics are always good. : As an aside, for what it’s worth, I’ve never paid much attention to the : information on trout spectral sensitivities.  While I know that there are : many : who swear by exacting attention to colors, it’s been my experience that color : isn’t all that important.  I’m not quite ready for the "Adams for everything" : approach (although I know it works well for some, at least), but light, : medium : and dark has usually worked just fine.   I would say that specific colors, like green or orange, will work well on specific days.  BTW, I would guess that most of the synthetic materials fluoresce in around 250 nm. :  My experience, which may not be : typical, has likely been colored by my propensity for fishing small : dries, but : I had a little chuckle when a colleague who works on vision suggested : that most : likely all the fish usually see is a silhouette. Especially the ones down deep.  Scattering would be a real hindrance to correct color perception for fish that are deep.  (Except of course on Idaho streams, where the water is so clear one must get out of the rivers to pee in their waders.) : Bummer, Rick.  Maybe it would look better under UV. Bring out the black lights… it’s time to party! — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: a good definition of the term bifluorescence I’m not an entomologist, but I do make my living observing fluorescence.  I

don’t believe I’ve ever heard the term… is it specific to insects? I would be interested in knowing about fish perception … Are trout more sensitive to UV, vis or IR radiation? What exactly, do fish "see?"

As one might guess based on the fact that Rick hasn’t heard of this, it is indeed a highly obscure term.  I ran it by a few of my colleagues who use fluorescent tags in their work and some others who work on vision.   Several of us could loosely be referred to as entomologists.  None were familiar with it, although we did manage to dig up a few recent references that use the adjective bifluorescent, in each case referring to things (not insects or any other kind of fish food) that fluoresce at two different wavelengths.  This may not be very satisfying, but it does make sense. Of perhaps more significance is the skepticism with which the vision types greeted the possibility that fluorescence could be significant with regard to surface feeding.  There’s so much ambient light that fluorescence would not be likely to be important.  In contrast, at depths where light becomes more monochromatic, fluorescence could indeed become significant. As for what fish see, there was a decent article in Fly Fisherman (?) a few years back on how trout see.  As I recall, it dealt mostly with the windows of visibility and visual acuity, but there was also some stuff about color vision.  I don’t have the info on spectral sensitivity for trout specifically, but many fish are known to be sensitive to UV. As an aside, for what it’s worth, I’ve never paid much attention to the information on trout spectral sensitivities.  While I know that there are many who swear by exacting attention to colors, it’s been my experience that color isn’t all that important.  I’m not quite ready for the "Adams for everything" approach (although I know it works well for some, at least), but light, medium and dark has usually worked just fine.  My experience, which may not be typical, has likely been colored by my propensity for fishing small dries, but I had a little chuckle when a colleague who works on vision suggested that most likely all the fish usually see is a silhouette. I just painted my living room and it turned out pink!!

Bummer, Rick.  Maybe it would look better under UV. Bill S.

Response:

Question:

Jensen) writes: Looking for foul weather gear

I would not look too hard for a bargin when looking for raingear, you will regret it later.  Get yourself some Grundens, Guy Cottons, or as a last resort some Helly Hansons(although Hellys have really gone down hill lately).  I work in the seafood industry in Alaska, and I have found that Grundens makes the best raingear out there.  And you can get it in day glow colors if you want to.  Look at comercial fishing outlets for them.

Response:

: I would not look too hard for a bargin when looking for raingear, you will : regret it later.  Get yourself some Grundens, Guy Cottons, or as a last : resort some Helly Hansons(although Hellys have really gone down hill : lately).  I work in the seafood industry in Alaska, and I have found that : Grundens makes the best raingear out there.  And you can get it in day : glow colors if you want to.  Look at comercial fishing outlets for them. faulies, not me. But I would like to check out a commercial supplier in LA or OC, just to see what’s there.  Anyone know where to find one?

Response:

-    I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices – that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this – stuff? I recently found a Helly Hansen mfg’s outlet store near Kenosha, Wisconsin.  I think they were just trying to sell yuppie sweaters and similar trendy stuff and they had their real foul weather gear on the shelf just to impress people. Never the less, they did have everything from their low end, $120 suits, to their high end, $900 suits.  They also had a hand written tag that explained in detail why each item was a mfg defect.  If I didn’t already have a suit I would have been very tempted to buy a $270 suit for $180 because they got their name embrodered on the wrong corner of the pocket. G. Jackson

Response:

        I postedthis elsewhere so I’ll post it here.  Don’t get sucked in by all that expensive sailing oriented shit.  Read on.      On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor." I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.      Where is this leading to?      Buy Helly Hansen fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!!  I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) — — Turn off ascii capture on the personal computer 4;1H Press the <Return Key to return to mail … —

Response:

     On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor."I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.      Where is this leading to?      Buy HELLY HANSEN fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!! And they are tough as steel and easy to patch. I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still  wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting  trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) —

Response:

     I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this stuff?                                      we suck!"

Response:

:      I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices : that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this : stuff? I wouldn’t do it.  I would rather have something that fits.  I ended up with a "Grotto" jacket from Boat/US and Explorer trousers from West Marine because each fit properly.  (I can hear them fighting in the closet.) It’s kind of hit and miss because everything is S/M/L/XL. My biggest disapointment was the lack of rad colors. And my BIG IDEA, now placed in the public domain, is glow-in-the-dark zippers – so you can get them on at 3 am.

Response:

Question:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

Yes. They are fantastic.

Response:

-bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem. —

I had a friend that used B1 – LOTS of it.  I don’t know what it does to the bugs, but it makes a GREAT people repellent!  We go out in the winter when the bugs are fewer, not gone, but fewer. Ted

Response:

[headnets]  Yes!  They work.  They’re slightly annoying to wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country.

        I’ve seen commercially made net jackets as well.  You’re supposed to soak the whole thing in DEET between wearings.  Probably best for stationary, high-bug activities like fishing.  I think Bean’s has them.

Response:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

        A lightweight approach to physical insect barriers is a plain headnet of no-se-um mesh (looks like a stuff sack, complete with neck drawcord;  about 1 oz. and $5 at Campmor and other places).  It helps to wear a hat underneath (any kind will do) to cover the top of the head and hold the netting away from the face.  Yes, it dims the view a bit, but it keeps the bugs away.  The only tricky part is eating.  ;-)         A caveat;  just because the bugs can’t get to you doesn’t mean they won’t try.  I tried to sleep once in headnet and bivy sack and was kept awake all night by the high-frequency buzzing in my ears.  Next time, I’ll remember my earplugs, but I did get some wonderful pictures of the dawn.  ;-) -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

        Likewise.  I’ll almost always choose long clothing and headnet over sun block and bug repellent.

Response:

So many people in the last few months have been recommending B-1 to ward off mosquitos in the last few months that I’m ready to try it, BUT no posting that I’ve seen yet has had *anything* to say about the question "How much is LOTS?" A common size that I’ve seen for B-1 only tablets is 100 mg, which is 6667% of the US RDA.  Does 100 mg/day qualify as LOTS?

        Yeah, I’d say that’d be sufficient!         I have used it in previous years, and it seems to work ok. Takes about a week to take effect though, and you have to remember to take it every day. It’s not foolproof, but does seem to cut into the population of bugs. EXPERIMENT!                                                         -Pat Salsbury

Response:

I remember being eaten alive in the Wind River Range in Wyoming one spring, in spite of lashings of industrial-strength repellent. At least I had the pleasure of killing 10-20 mozzies in one swat! I met a grizzled old fellow who had been camping in the area for 50 years, and he was totally oblivious to the little monsters.

Name of Finis Mitchell, by any chance? Mitchell Peak in the Cirque of the Towers is named after him. I’ve met him too, totally oblivious to mosquitos feeding on his face, telling us about places around about. That was seven or eight years ago – I wonder if he’s still alive and hiking. He was getting up there… but he was in better shape than I.                                                         Jeff Winslow

Response:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats? Yes, I have used one in Alaska and in the Cascades.  They are hot, they interfere with vision, and are generally obnoxious.

I haven’t seen the REI version, but mine is coarser than no-see-um netting. Highly recommended. It is comfortable, doesn’t interfere w/vision (I find my self enjoying the scenery adequately, though prefer the bugless unimpeded world), and is a very welcome addition to the checklist. Perhaps the above poster is using too fine a mesh ? —

Response:

Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem.

So many people in the last few months have been recommending B-1 to ward off mosquitos in the last few months that I’m ready to try it, BUT no posting that I’ve seen yet has had *anything* to say about the question "How much is LOTS?" A common size that I’ve seen for B-1 only tablets is 100 mg, which is 6667% of the US RDA.  Does 100 mg/day qualify as LOTS? More? Should I be choking it down by the wheelbarrow load? Can someone give me an order of magnitude here? Thanks!                                 — Dave Alexander — "When I was a little boy in Baltimore in 1954, I wanted  to be a juvenile delinquent when I grew up."                                 — John Waters

Response:

|   Yes!  They [mosquito net hats] work.  They’re slightly annoying to | wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded | black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting | jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so | we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country. I found a simple way to keep the little buggers from biting through my shirt that doesn’t require any fancy sewing skills.  I got an athletic style mesh T-shirt (looks like it’s made of fine fish net) and I wear it underneath a normal long sleve shirt.  This holds the shirt away from my skin by ~1mm making it difficult for the skeeters to reach me. Works great so long as the temperature isn’t too high. —    Advanced Micro Devices       N5PSS    Austin, Texas                1-(512)-462-5389 "You can’t leap a chasm in two jumps."

Response:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face…. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

My wife brought a couple of these from Canada to New Zealand. You look like a real twit, but at least your a happy twit. To my regret, peering through all that gauze makes fly-fishing impossible. She laughs, I suffer. -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

Have you tried eating LOTS of garlic &/or vitamin B1 for awhile before your trip? They say if you’ve got it oozing out of your pores, the bugs won’t like it. Your friends will be another problem. —

Response:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

Yes, I have used one in Alaska and in the Cascades.  They are hot, they interfere with vision, and are generally obnoxious.  However they stop all the mosquitos, and also things like deer flies and black flies that aren’t impressed by DEET.  And save you from corroding your skin with noxious chemicals.  I still carry it whenever I go to particularly fierce bug country.                                 Chuck Smythe

Response:

All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

I’ve heard of people in the old days smearing their skin with mud, but have never tried it as a bug repellent. I’ve also heard that you can develop an immunity to your local mosquitoes, so that you’d still get bitten, but not get as irritated as an outsider would. I remember being eaten alive in the Wind River Range in Wyoming one spring, in spite of lashings of industrial-strength repellent. At least I had the pleasure of killing 10-20 mozzies in one swat! I met a grizzled old fellow who had been camping in the area for 50 years, and he was totally oblivious to the little monsters. —

Response:

I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats?

  Yes!  They work.  They’re slightly annoying to wear, altho not as annoying as swarming mosquitoes or the dreaded black flies.  We took it a step farther.  My wife has made netting jackets, complete with hood, for us and our kids.  Leggin’s too, so we can wear shorts in heavy duty bug country. -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

– And little Sir John with his nut brown bowl        Tony Wesley/RPT Software                 And his brandy in the glass        voice: (313) 274-2080           Proved the strongest man at last…    Compu$erve: 72770,2053

Response:

On a related subject, I noticed a hat with mosquito netting draped over the face and neck, kind of like a beekeepers bonnet, in an REI catalog. Has anyone tried one of these hats? -bill "I hate the stench of insect repellent" faus

Response:

Jeff Haferman  how did people sleeping outdoors in Jeff Haferman  the olden days keep the biting bugs away? Before the invention of Avon Skin-So-Soft, the ultimate mosquito repellent, we smeared our skin with a mixture of bison grease and wood ashes.  We also migrated from the bug infested banks of the Great Water to higher, dryer ground during the worst of the mosquito season.

Response:

All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

They only bathed once a month.

Response:

All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?  

Not wash for months at a time?

Response:

I slept beneath the stars on the banks of the Mississippi this weekend, and it was beautiful, with 1 exception – I neglected to bring any mosquito repellent.  I covered my head with a thick sweater and this worked pretty well except I would get too hot and have to remove it. Sleeping near the campfire worked pretty well too since the smoke seemed to keep the bugs away. All this got me thinking though, how did people sleeping outdoors in the olden days keep the biting bugs away?   Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Iowa Iowa City IA  52240

Response: