Question:

Padishar, when we going fishin’?

Response:

ROFFians, I need a favor. If you are attending the upcoming Denver show and are willing to help me look for something while you’re there I would be most grateful. Send me a private email if you can help. I’ll send you a "blem" hat from the Maine Clave or the upcoming Penn’s Clave to make it worth your while –Steve

Response:

ROFFians, I need a favor. If you are attending the upcoming Denver show and are willing to help me look for something while you’re there I would be most grateful. Send me a private email if you can help. I’ll send you a "blem" hat from the Maine Clave or the upcoming Penn’s Clave to make it worth your while

—– Steve, we have a fly fishing show starting today here in Portland, Oregon…send me a private email if you want me to look for something for you (or any Roffian for that matter) and I would be happy to look…love looking anyway… —- Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Steve, we have a fly fishing show starting today here in Portland, Oregon…

I hadn’t heard about the Portland show, where’s it at? Thanks,      - Ken

Response:

It’s at the Oregon Convention Center.  It’s an ISE, not purely FFing. http://www.sportsexpos.com/attendees.html JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, we have a fly fishing show starting today here in Portland, Oregon… I hadn’t heard about the Portland show, where’s it at? Thanks,      - Ken

Response:

Outstanding, I can take the train.  Now just have to find the time to go. Thanks,      - Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s at the Oregon Convention Center.  It’s an ISE, not purely FFing. http://www.sportsexpos.com/attendees.html JR Steve, we have a fly fishing show starting today here in Portland, Oregon… I hadn’t heard about the Portland show, where’s it at? Thanks,      - Ken

Response:

It’s at the Oregon Convention Center.  It’s an ISE, not purely FFing. http://www.sportsexpos.com/attendees.html JR

—— I guess this is a bit of a ‘trip’ report about the Portland Outdoor Show. The show is somewhat small  (we do have another one in February and it seems to have more emphasis in fly fishing).  Because is was such a smallish show and few attendees, I got to speak with Jim Teeny at length and sat in on a wonderful presentation on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes by Brian Chan.  I talked with Brian for a few minutes after his presentation, a very generous man with his time and expertise.  The fly tying presentations were incredible with nice video cameras and monitors to watch the tiers in action.  The fly fishing books suppliers were in to this show big time and I really enjoyed leafing through the latest offerings from the publishers.  All in all, I had a good time, but I am still looking forward to a large fly fishing show SOON. —– Padishar Creel "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work…I want to achieve it through not dying."  – Woody Allen

Response:

Question:

After a long cold spell, the temps hit sixty yesterday. As a respite for the 14 hour days I work during Christmas Break, I decided to get out for a couple of hours and enjoy the weather. My home river had been well frozen but since early December the flows have been good. When I got to the river, I noticed it had opened up some and it carried a slight amount of color from the melting snow and ice. I walked along enjoying the warm sun and checking the most promising areas for midging fish. I walked down to the river and dipped in my hand to check the water temp. The water was/seemed even colder than it was during the colder weather. I’ve read that thawing ice and melting snow from warmer weather can actually lower stream temps. My experience echoes this. It usually takes a couple of warmer days in the middle of the Winter to get the fish stirring. The first warm day seems to result in fewer feeding fish. Anyway, the usual Winter midging areas were devoid of fish and I saw very few midges out. The trail rises high above the the upper flats area, a major feeding area for a large, deep pool downstream, and fish spotting is good. I saw no fish in this quarter mile stretch. I continued to walk for awhile watching the ducks and the other birds and enjoying the day. Seeing no fish, I turned around and headed back to my van. I decided to check out one more spot before calling it quits. I sat down on a rock and watched the river for awhile. There, at the end of a current tongue was a small dimple or was it my imagination?  A couple of minutes later, the fish sipped another midge. Fish rising very occasionally like this one are often very difficult to rise to a fly because they are either mainly feeding underwater or are not earnestly feeding. Since, it was the only feeding fish I spotted, I gave it a try. Using a size 22 emerger midge, I made a series of casts to the general area of the rising fish with no results, when I spotted a dimple in a different area. Either the fish was cruising or there was more than one fish out. I stopped fishing for minute and watched for the next rise.  A fish sipped a midge closer in and I covered the rise with several casts, then had a solid take. The fish was surprising lively, given the cold water, and leapt out of the water several times. I slid the the fish onto an ice shelve and admired the bright coloration the Rainbows seems to take on during the Winter. I removed the hook, slid it into the water, sat down and watched the river again for spell.  The fish was either the only one feeding, or more likely, the others were put down by its aerobatics because I saw no other feeders. I packed up and headed home. Today, the temps will again be in the upper 50’s and maybe they’ll be a few more fish! Willi

Response:

…..Usual good reportage snipped… Thanks for the report, Willi. Just goes to show how a one-fish-trip can be a great trip. Danl Who would walk out to his "home water" cept for the 6 hour drive.

Response:

    (captivating report snipped) damn, man, i love getting these reports.  you have a terrific, direct prose style.  paradise painted with a few strong colors. wayno

Response:

After about a week of training some extra summer help, I finally found time to get away yesterday. Runoff has really been moderate this year. Although the river was fairly high, it was only slightly discolored and carried some mud. I fished midday and there were numerous hatches going on, small Mays and a variety of caddis. The fish were very active and had moved into aggressive feeding stations in the few small pockets of calm water they found in the shallow runs and rapids. I got a number of strikes and landed a couple fish on a skittered dry, but didn’t really get into the fish until I started using nymphs. The fish I was targeting were in the areas of shallow, but heavy water. They were in the slower water lies at the edges of the stream and behind every substantial obstruction that provided protection from the current. Fishing was easy.  The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi

Response:

(pleasant report snipped) The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi

    willi, i think you have more pleasant trips astream than all the rest of us combined.  thanks for the report, and congratulations on a charmed piscatorial life. wayno

Response:

I live five minutes away from an urban river, as do over 100,000 other people, but very few other people fish it for a variety of reasons. I’m self employed and I try to get out, even if it’s only for an hour, as often as possible.  Much better for your soul than watching the tube. Every where I’ve lived, with the exception of Chicago, I’ve managed to find some fishing close by that was ignored by other people. Not always trout sometimes a stream with smallmouth and rockbass, a farm pond with bluegills and bass, or a muddy creek with catfish. People tend to drive past lots of good water to get to some far off place that is somehow better. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (pleasant report snipped) The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi     willi, i think you have more pleasant trips astream than all the rest of us combined.  thanks for the report, and congratulations on a charmed piscatorial life. wayno

Response:

Question:

Daytripper writes: Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids… …showing you did not follow the thread…. Tim wondered about the fate of the Lake Trout(salmonids last I checked) amongst the 30 or so fish reported released.

Actually, I think I followed that thread just fine, thank you. But as long as your digging for worms: your response above shows you’re the one that is reading-impaired: – Jim claimed he caught and released around 30 lakers and walleye. – TBone claimed "With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom." (fwiw, clearly TBone’s unsubstantiable claim pertains to Walleye – not lakers, but I’ll let your error slide). – You chimed in with: " Well, Tim, if one uses the [blah blah blah], we can assume a 70% mortality. That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30" If you’re still missing your mistake: note that Jim’s 30 fish was a MIX of lakers AND walleye. Thus "21 deceased salmonids out of 30" is another example of your comprehension deficits. Respectfully, /daytripper

Response:

Nit2: I have caught many large pike and in my experience they are among the most fragile fish I have ever caught. They have absolutely no stamina, and once beaten, readily go belly up. It takes great effort to revive them, and I have found that they need the most careful handling of any species I have wanted to release.

Exactly my experience. The toothy things have one and only one good run in them and then display all the fighting power and fishing fun of a water soaked log. I caught a 52" pike on a 5wt while fishing for smallmouth bass from a canoe. Damn thing took me into the backing but by the time I hauled his carcass up to the boat he was 99% dead. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Jim writes:Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush) are members of the Char family.

…yes, and as such, like brook trout, are considered salmonids. However, my basic point is not semantics. I wanted to actually point out a study of effects upon released fish. The study dealt with salmonids, but I have a feeling that the hypoxia effects of removing a fish from water for even minute amounts of time is pretty consistent for most fishes. FWIW, if you use a technique whereby the fish is released without lifting from the water, your survival rate should have been much higher. My position on C&R has always been responsible practice,combining good release technique and restraint from overfishing.                           Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Daytripper feels obliged to add: your response above shows you’re the one that is reading-impaired:

let’s see now…Tim commented re:walleye, wondered about Macks(i.e. Lakers to the western types). Then, I responded about salmonid data(i.e Lakers). Where am I reading impaired? It seems some of you folks need to sling mud just to free your heads from your derrieres….. to wit: If you’re still missing your mistake: note that Jim’s 30 fish was a MIX of lakers AND walleye. Thus "21 deceased salmonids out of 30" is another example of your comprehension deficits.

Since I know nothing of the mix on any given day, I speculated on a pure catch, knowing full well that was not the case….thought I made that clear. finally: Respectfully,

sure, Daytripper, respectfully, my ass!                             T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

J Powlesland replies: Who, exactly, the hell do you think you are questioning J. Cook’s assertion that he fished with Tim? Everytime he is asked to prove the claim, he quietly disappears from the thread.

Yes, and your point is?                                    T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Nit1: Char are in the salmonid family. Lake trout are salmonids.

Thanks, Jon,  I was starting to think they had changed things since I got out of grad school, listening to these other folks jumping on me……                          T Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Response:

Since I know nothing of the mix on any given day, I speculated on a pure catch, knowing full well that was not the case….thought I made that clear.

No, you clearly did not. But I see you tread water with the best of them ;^) Still respectfully (and I know nothing about your ass) /daytripper

Response:

Daytripper writes: Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids…

…showing you did not follow the thread…. Tim wondered about the fate of the Lake Trout(salmonids last I checked) amongst the 30 or so fish reported released.

Response:

Jim writes: However I see little reason why I should make it easy for AR-loons to search my posts.

correct….look how easily you pull up Tim’s somewhat out-of-context AR post. You consistently fail to include the part of the post where he leads up to "That said". BTW, I have had more than one difference of opinion with Tim, yet have generally learned something from most debates with him. That is because he tends to cite factual data, which while open to interpretations different from his, offer a jumping-off point for intelligent discourse. The alternative, of course, is to limit the discussion to the kind of personal assault crap into which you, Jim, have jumped with both feet. Who, exactly, the hell do you think you are questioning J. Cook’s assertion that he fished with Tim? Geez!                                Tom Littleton

Response:

Jim writes: However I see little reason why I should make it easy for AR-loons to search my posts. correct….look how easily you pull up Tim’s somewhat out-of-context AR post. You consistently fail to include the part of the post where he leads up to "That said".

I promised myself that I’d stay out of this but just can’t quite restrain myself.  As much as I tried to fool myself into believing that Tim didn’t actually mean exactly what he wrote, he’s made his position clear many times since then.  He believes that fish have rights and has stated that he would vote for legislative ballots that would establish those rights. Given the situation with AR-loons and fishermen in Germany it should be blatantly obvious the foolishness that results. Whether or not Tim fishes or how he justifies the morality/immorality of the act of fishing matters not to me.  Any purported fisherman who would support AR activists in their campaign to grant fish rights is quite frankly a danger to the future of fishing and I have to question their motives. You’ve got my $0.02 and now I’m outta here,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? Blackwater Lodge – Ireland’s premier salmon fishing lodge – has a vacancy for a chef from July 9th. 5 days per week – evenings only and Sunday lunch. The job is a permanent position as the restaurant is open in the winter season.   Anyone interested please contact Ian Powell – Proprietor Blackwater Lodge Upper Ballyduff Co. Waterford Ireland     Tel: 058 60235    Fax: 058 60162 Website:  http://www.blackwaterlodge.net

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing?

[snip] But of course… Menu Du Peche Breakfast 7:30 in the rod room Bier d’Ice Jerky a Louis Lunch 12:00 Streamside Bier Dinner 30 minutes after blackness du noir Bier d’Ice Jerky a Louis Pattie Du Weinees (or #11 Hamburger with two franks on top) Chips la Bag Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? [snip] But of course…

What is really needed here is someone with an appreciation of fine food, guest care, and staff management.  I could possibly be persuaded to take over the kitchen with the right inducement.  First, a trial. Two weeks at your lodge, you pay airfare from Washington D.C.  You provide the fly rods and flys for off hours entertainment.  I get to hire the Sous Chef from Sweden.  I just must have a tall blond Scandinavian woman under me.  What do the upstairs maids look like? Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I love salmon fishing and I can cook fishing fanatics anyway you want! "Mr" DB Jones ‘Is a fate worse than death better than dying?’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chef Wanted. Does anyone out there know a chef who is keen on salmon fishing? Blackwater Lodge – Ireland’s premier salmon fishing lodge – has a vacancy for a chef from July 9th. 5 days per week – evenings only and Sunday lunch. The job is a permanent position as the restaurant is open in the winter season. Anyone interested please contact Ian Powell – Proprietor Blackwater Lodge Upper Ballyduff Co. Waterford Ireland     Tel: 058 60235    Fax: 058 60162 Website:  http://www.blackwaterlodge.net

Response:

Speaking of dinner, last night was trout burritos, thanks to Jon Ernst for the idea.

This sounded so good, I looked it up w/ Deja News to get the recipe.   It was originally posted before I began reading ROFF, so I’m glad you mentioned it again.   Thanks Jon & Jon! Joe F. (There’s no such thing as too much garlic.)

Response:

[deleted] Caught around 30 a day. Released the vast majority. Brought back 3 lakers and 3 walleye though. All about 24 inches in length.

With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom.  What depth were you trolling ?  How about with the Macks ? Wake up, idiot. Timbo doesn’t catch fish, let alone eat them. He is an AR-loon with an anti-fishing agenda

I just love it when you get all pouty !  Are you wearing that Teddy I sent you ? XXXOOO’s — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Tim W writes( in response to Jim Powlesland’s claim of 30 lakers and walleyes a day released): With Walleye that would statistically be about 10 fish per day rotting on the bottom.  What depth were you trolling ?  How about with the Macks ?

Well, Tim, if one uses the anoxia studies of Drs. Tufts and Ferguson, published in 1995 in the Nova Scotia Salmon Assn newsletter, as well as a couple of professional Biology Journals, we can assume a 70% mortality. That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30, unless ‘ol Jim managed to get them out of the boat and back to the water in under 30 seconds, which they cite as the onset point of severe hypoxia in larger salmonids. A letter citing this study appeared in this months Flyfishing Guide(for you Easterners). The letter was a call to enlightened fishing by Andrew Gennaro, a veteran and well-regarded New Jersey angler. The letter in its entirety would be well worth many of the more ardent C&R advocate’s reading.                                 Tom Littleton

Response:

[snip] That would be around 21 deceased salmonids out of 30

Nit-city: Last time I checked, walleyes were way-way-distant relatives to salmonids…

Response:

Well part of his deluded online support group anyway.<

Hmmm.  Back yard dogs, maybe?  As oppossed to junk yard dogs, that is.  <g

Response:

 How about with the Macks ? What the heck are "Macks"?

It appears that Americans west of the Mississipi refer to lake trout as mackinaws.  Tim’s upset cuz he’s the Mack Daddy. Mu

Response:

Question:

Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

Response:

Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

WIth snow levels this year, I think you can probably expect high water; snow pack is about double a normal year. A 9 foot, five weight rod with a floating line will work for most situations you’ll encounter on the Deschutes. Deep nymphing is the most consistently successful method on the lower river. The salmonfly hatch should be getting started, as well as the golden stoneflies. BIG, heavily weighted stonefly nymphs in black and gold. Black and golden stimulators for the adults. Caddis: Rhyacophilia, hydropsyche, Glossoma, Brachycentra: larvae, pupae, and adults. Mayflies: Baetis, Heptagenia, maybe some early PMDs. Midges. Local shops: The Deschutes Canyon fly shop in Maupin, The Fly Fishing Shop in Welches.

Response:

Question:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Simms Guide model breathables. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders?

The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. If money is not an object, breathables Simms Guide Gortex, LL Bean Gortex or the new tough Orvis ones are supposed to be good. I have had the simms for four seasons now. Not a leak yet, very comfortable in the summer but they were and are pricey. If I wear my breathables over fleece pants, I have yet to have a "cold" problem steelheading. I never plan on wearing my neoprenes again. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I too am in the process of "gearing up".  After speaking with several individuals, an Orvis salesperson, a BassPro rep, and looking through a plethora of magazines and books, I have concluded the following: 1.    Not all waders are created equal. 2.    If you buy a $10 pair of waders, expect a $10 pair of waders. 3.    NO 2 fly fisherman (or sales people) will answer the same question         with the same (or nearly the same) answer. 4.    Waders are a personal choice based on the following:         A.    Area to be fished (ie; hiking 10miles in 6mm neoprene is                 not the most pleasant experience.)         B.    Seasons fished (15 degrees in 45 degree water is no fun                 in lightweight breathables.)         C.    Price range:  Buy the best you can afford while keeping in                 mind what you are going to use them for. Basically, unless you are comparing two specific products, there are no definitive answers.  Think:  Need, Desire, Use, Price.  When in doubt, take along a fly fisherman you trust and have him/her answer the necessary questions on your behalf. Casting is free therapy!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

Basically, ditto. Breathables are not only the most comfortable thing I’ve worn in the water (besides an occasional big grin) they are absolutely fantastic for travel. They dry overnight and take almost no space at all when they go back into your suitcase for the morning flight. But if you’re only going to fish a couple of times a year, you have to decide whether they are worth the expense. I like Simms. Ken Ft. Lupton, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders? The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

Seems like there are a lot of good vendors out there.  I’ve got some LL Bean waist-high breathable waders which I find fantastically comfortable (I fish a lot of small, freestone streams) and have been very durable.  Waist high works much better than hippers (which invariable are 2" too short) and are much more comfortable in hot weather than chest waders.  I almost never miss the extra height of a chest wader (if it’s that deep, you should be fishing in it, not walking in it). I also have a pair of Orvis Chest High breathable waders, which I would give a miss.  The fabric simply isn’t puncture resistant enough. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G. Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

_______   yep. —

Question:

The power company last spring stated that for new lines to be strung an Impact report had to be filed  because the home was within 300′ of the river.No trees or brush could be removed till he had permission from the BLM and CFG.

snip Harry – I appreciate your friend’s difficulties. I will not defend, and in fact will oppose, unreasonable restrictions on property rights. But, on the other hand, protection of our resources will require some restrictions – where the rabbit goes in the hat is what is "reasonable".   I can assure you that this conference does not have as its pupose the extinguishment of our property rights. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Sheesh Harry: I’m holding the registration brochure/abstract listing in my hand and I’m sorry, but I fail to see anything about government confiscation of property or abridgement of 5th Amendment Rights.  There will however, be sessions on stream bank fencing, the benefits of streambank riparian buffers on aquatic habitats and lo and behold… also sessions on landowner assistance, and the purchase of easements for riparian habitat enhancement work. That’s purchase, you know… a wiling buyer and a willing seller.  From what I can glean from your description, your friend on the Klamath is yet another example where the "One Size Fits All" proclivity of government has exhibited from time to time in being inflexible and profoundly unfair to citizens and property owners. He has been wronged.. This type of abuse deserves the same vigorous exposure and correction as the unmasking and pursuit of those who would use the guise of whining about property rights violations to hedge and fudge existing environmental standards.  For as long as I can recall, this entire discussion has been overly long on the proclamation of "rights" and far too brief on the discussion of "responsibilities". Enough of that. This conference is not about how to mount a night raid to seize Uncle John’s south woods along the North Fork of Hometown Run and add them to the public trust.  Its about why trees with good root systems tend to hold streambanks in place and stuff like that. The luncheon and presentations are great, but conspiracies are in short supply, I’m afraid.  

Response:

RLPPT   You are correct, I was ahead of myself.    The one size fits all dogma of the Fed is derived in no small part from  those groups and experts that know "what’s best for the Resource".  I’m sorry if I implied that the Keystone Conference in of it’s self is responsible for this type of thought process. That was not my intension. What I am saying is that over time, the Ecological and Philosophical solution to the premise that the Riparian habitat is being destroyed is; prohibit entrence.There is no reference to conspiracy or rights or responsibilities in that statement, nor were there in my other note. HM electrons to read: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sheesh Harry: I’m holding the registration brochure/abstract listing in my hand and I’m sorry, but I fail to see anything about government confiscation of property or abridgement of 5th Amendment Rights.  There will however, be sessions on stream bank fencing, the benefits of streambank riparian buffers on aquatic habitats and lo and behold… also sessions on landowner assistance, and the purchase of easements for riparian habitat enhancement work. That’s purchase, you know… a wiling buyer and a willing seller. From what I can glean from your description, your friend on the Klamath is yet another example where the "One Size Fits All" proclivity of government has exhibited from time to time in being inflexible and profoundly unfair to citizens and property owners. He has been wronged.. This type of abuse deserves the same vigorous exposure and correction as the unmasking and pursuit of those who would use the guise of whining about property rights violations to hedge and fudge existing environmental standards.  For as long as I can recall, this entire discussion has been overly long on the proclamation of "rights" and far too brief on the discussion of "responsibilities". Enough of that. This conference is not about how to mount a night raid to seize Uncle John’s south woods along the North Fork of Hometown Run and add them to the public trust.  Its about why trees with good root systems tend to hold streambanks in place and stuff like that. The luncheon and presentations are great, but conspiracies are in short supply, I’m afraid.  

Response:

the electons to read: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 2/20 conference at Penn State is jointly sponsored by Pennsylvania and National TU, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, Pa Fish & Boat Commission, Pa Audubon, PA-DEP, PA-DNCR (PA’s Environmental Regulatory Agencies), and several private sector companies like Orvis, etc. This is the third annual conference and if it comes off like the first two, there will be over 300 folks there from agencies and the conservation community networking and talking and planning on what is best for the resource and our coldwater fisheries.  Registration is open until 2/6. Call one of the folks in the previous post.  Last year,I think we had attendees from 11 states. This is getting to be some event and I for one won’t miss it. Thanks Bob, you saved me some typing.  I’ll see you there.  Not sure where Harry was coming from there.   Mark Faulkner

  I have a friend who lives on the Upper Klamath,outside of Happy camp. He is a Nam vet and has ‘retired’ to a home he inheritated from his father in 88.His place sits on about 30 acres of ground with about an 1/8 of mile of river front. The heavy winter of last year did a number on his power lines and he spent time and money to replace what he could till last spring so the major line could be replaced. The power company last spring stated that for new lines to be strung an Impact report had to be filed  because the home was within 300′ of the river.No trees or brush could be removed till he had permission from the BLM and CFG.The report cost $1750.  They have succeeded in impeding any improvements ,maintenance to his property till he got "permission". The road to his place needed attention of a D9 cat , he could not do it.  They have for all intents and purposes, confiscated his property. He could sell but then he, by law, has to state that the Fed will not allow improvements or the like… that means no buyers. After much legal hassle and expense the power was replaced under a "one time" grandfather clause. His is still fighting to get what’s left back.   So when a group, any group gets together to "decide what’s best for the resource" my ears perk up. If, like on the "Post Spill" Upper Sac here in Ca. a group or town (Dunsmire) can demand the fishing regs reflect it’s desire to allow more bait fishing, then the jump in the opposite direction,i.e. No fishing at all is not as Quantum as you may think.It depends on who is yelling the loudest  The environmental extension to the question of what’s best for the resource is; no human interaction. After all, if C&R is deemed harmful to the resource by a group that wields the power or the public backing, we as a group are not left with much to do except fish from our SUV’s with  3 D helmets on.  I agree with those that are trying to improve what can be and have and do jump in myself, but given the radical days of Green Political correctness we are in, the outlawing of fishing and or boating is not nearly as far fetched as it was 10 years ago. What will the next 10 hold ?   harry Other than that, I off to tye at the ISE show… Have a good one

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the electons to read: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 2/20 conference at Penn State is jointly sponsored by Pennsylvania and National TU, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, Pa Fish & Boat Commission, Pa Audubon, PA-DEP, PA-DNCR (PA’s Environmental Regulatory Agencies), and several private sector companies like Orvis, etc. This is the third annual conference and if it comes off like the first two, there will be over 300 folks there from agencies and the conservation community networking and talking and planning on what is best for the resource and our coldwater fisheries.  Registration is open until 2/6. Call one of the folks in the previous post.  Last year,I think we had attendees from 11 states. This is getting to be some event and I for one won’t miss it. Thanks Bob, you saved me some typing.  I’ll see you there.  Not sure where Harry was coming from there.   Mark Faulkner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 2/20 conference at Penn State is jointly sponsored by Pennsylvania and National TU, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, Pa Fish & Boat Commission, Pa Audubon, PA-DEP, PA-DNCR (PA’s Environmental Regulatory Agencies), and several private sector companies like Orvis, etc. This is the third annual conference and if it comes off like the first two, there will be over 300 folks there from agencies and the conservation community networking and talking and planning on what is best for the resource and our coldwater fisheries.  Registration is open until 2/6. Call one of the folks in the previous post.  Last year,I think we had attendees from 11 states. This is getting to be some event and I for one won’t miss it.

Thanks Bob, you saved me some typing.  I’ll see you there.  Not sure where Harry was coming from there.   Mark Faulkner

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projected the electons to read: THIRD ANNUAL KEYSTONE COLDWATER CONFERENCE:                           MULTIPLE BENEFITS OF STREAMSIDE BUFFERS The time is coming when this "Quite" sport in which we participate will come to be looked upon as invasive, detrimental and  damaging to the riparian environment. Harry, get a grip, man.  One just doesn’t follow from the other.  Now put down your copy of "The Turner Diaries", kick back and enjoy the millenium. Anything being sponsored by Penn State University has to be good.

 Fiddle on Nero , Actually I just finished Tyer’s Benchside cover to cover, very nice book. In general  schools east of the Divide are just to Provincial… Hm (helmet in place )

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The 2/20 conference at Penn State is jointly sponsored by Pennsylvania and National TU, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, Pa Fish & Boat Commission, Pa Audubon, PA-DEP, PA-DNCR (PA’s Environmental Regulatory Agencies), and several private sector companies like Orvis, etc. This is the third annual conference and if it comes off like the first two, there will be over 300 folks there from agencies and the conservation community networking and talking and planning on what is best for the resource and our coldwater fisheries.  Registration is open until 2/6. Call one of the folks in the previous post.  Last year,I think we had attendees from 11 states. This is getting to be some event and I for one won’t miss it.

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THIRD ANNUAL KEYSTONE COLDWATER CONFERENCE:                           MULTIPLE BENEFITS OF STREAMSIDE BUFFERS

The time is coming when this "Quite" sport in which we participate will come to be looked upon as invasive, detrimental and  damaging to the riparian environment.

Harry, get a grip, man.  One just doesn’t follow from the other.  Now put down your copy of "The Turner Diaries", kick back and enjoy the millenium. Anything being sponsored by Penn State University has to be good.

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Seminars will include: River viewing from afar. Casting over the Riparian zone with bow and arrow. Landing trout remotely from viewing area. Who to contact in the Fed. to get permission to ask someone if you can touch the water.   A feasibility study of "virtual" fly fishing in 3D  from your now outlawed SUV. Pay for view The time is coming when this "Quite" sport in which we participate will come to be looked upon as invasive, detrimental and  damaging to the riparian environment. You may say, it’s a matter of degree, FF’ers don’t damage the "Zone" as much as say  Cattle .You would be correct, the problem is: we do not define the Degree and wading is invasive, trails are damaging and sticking little fish for joy is or will not  be PC. It’s only a matter of time, sorry to say. HM (I don’t see Black Helicopters or Grays, but I do not inhale sand either.) projected the electons to read: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -THIRD ANNUAL KEYSTONE COLDWATER CONFERENCE:                           MULTIPLE BENEFITS OF STREAMSIDE BUFFERS      SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1999 To inform individuals from grassroots groups, including watershed organizations and trout unlimited chapters, about the value and function of natural and planted riparian vegetation along upland coldwater streams in enhancing both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems. There will be sessions on:                 Fish and Water Quality                 Bird Abundance and Diversity                 Landscape Ecology                 Stream Bank Fencing                 Geographical Information Systems For up to date conference information: http://www.outreach.psu.edu/C&I/Coldwaterconservation For More Information About program content: Janie French (814) 768-9584 Jack Williams (814) 764-3368 About registration or access: Mark Bernhard, Penn State Conferences and Institutes 225 The Penn Stater Conference Hotel State College  PA  16802 Phone: (814)863-5121 Fax: (814) 863-5190

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Question:

andrew, I am a pro photog and I have photos that you could use.  I was unable to connect to your website.   Jerry Schrader, over 30 years a pro Fine Wedding Photography http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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You know, I’ve NEVER seen one of those women land a fish….must be that scentthey put on the bait… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is my website.  I am looking for pictures of people to put up on it. I need some wilderness, fishing, camping, hiking, scenery, etc. you get the point (NO NUDE FLYFISHING WOMEN THIS TIME).  If anyone would send me their pics I will post them and give you credit.  Thanks again. Sincerely, Andrew Fulton http://wildhideaway.cjb.net

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Here is my website.  I am looking for pictures of people to put up on it.  I need some wilderness, fishing, camping, hiking, scenery, etc. you get the point (NO NUDE FLYFISHING WOMEN THIS TIME).  If anyone would send me their pics I will post them and give you credit.  Thanks again. Sincerely, Andrew Fulton http://wildhideaway.cjb.net

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Question:

  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17?? I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September.

Nope, it’s only closed above Allingham Bridge.  Of course that’s my favorite water, especially in the winter, but I gladly conced because there was too much damage to the banks. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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   What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??    Many thanks,    john manotti

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  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??   Many thanks,   john manotti

I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

A good size brown beats them all. Just the take is enough for me, but the fight and all those minutes of wondering how big he really is. They just stick to the bottom with even, powerful pulls, just shy of breaking the leader. nothing beats this, Browns for me. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly.

The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW

Well conditioned sea-run cutts usually fight much like browns or brook trout; they tend to stay deep, pull hard and shake. They may jump a bit more However a fair number of fish become quite acrobatic and will also make good runs, making the reel scream. I have memories of a fair number of these that I took to be small coho. I remember one fish while working the spring time chum migration on the Harrison that body surfed down the wave of a boat wake to snatch my fly and promptly put in 5 or 6 consecutive jumps; sulked a bit then jumped a few more times. Ralph H

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(Eric) writes:   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting   trout:   Eric

Steelhead. OK, next question… -tgades

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 I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ?

I know what you mean, those little dudes I launch into the bushes behind me.  ZZZing!  Quite a surprise.  Poor fish, mindin’ his own bidness, when Bang! Zoom! to the moon! Anglerboy

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Mulberry–not the Marlboro, now–which is tied to imitate a–you got it–mulberry.  But these are hardly fair comparisons.  The best stripe

Gee Dave, I have never of the Mulberry hatch!  ;-) -Burton

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Both choices are wild rainbows: 1- summer steelhead.  Not like a winter fish. The turbos are spun up,they’re taken on lighter tackle, and you may be able to sight-fish with dries.

<<< Yeah, it can be real fun watching a finning steelie turn his head and take your fly.  The most incredible sight I have ever seen was this huge 20+ lb. steelhead rise to an October Caddis on the Siletz.  It looked totally incongrous.  That head looked like a basketball. 2- native redside.  I’ll never forget a 17" Deschutes fish that I would have thought was a steelhead, if I wasn’t after the lead fish in a pod of rising trout.  Incredible fight! <<<

I like those big 20-25 pounders.  I have yet to land one.  They fight so different.  You bring them in a couple of times, then they run back out twenty or thirty yds. then go nuts like a chicken with it’s head cut off.  Then they are gone! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rainbow, without a doubt.  They hit like a train, leap, make strong runs.  Brown and cutthroats are great bulldoggers, and I have seen browns make some good leaps.  Nothing touches the rainbow/steelhead though. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones I am mostly a eastern fisherman so I don’t know what to expect from western trout but years back I was fishing a tiny stream in Utah that was filled with rainbows of 7-9 inches ( the local flyshop wasn’t even aware of the fishery) and I never battled such feisty fish before as these guys.They just wouldn’t give up…..I landed about 1/2 of what I hooked…… They were absolutely amazing !                                                                                        Jody

It sounds like you need to visit the Pacific Northwest Jody!  You would get the battle of your like from some of our brutes. -Burton

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….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

Yes, they usually hit me in the face. If I open my mouth I can eat them right then! DJones

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(Eric) says: : : I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting : trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow : because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns : also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and : hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other : flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. : : Eric : : my vote: : : 1) Gerard Strain Rainbows of Kootney Lake  BC; hands down : 2) Kamloops strain Rainbow of the South Interior of BC : : Gerard have the acrobatics and drive of any fish that swims plus : considerably more strength than any salmonid I’ve ever hooked; : including browns; various strains of cutts, Madison, Bow River and : Crowsnnest Rainbows; steelhead ; cohoe etc : : Kamloops fish combine great acrobatics and strength with are largely : insectorvious (sp) : I definitely second Eric’s vote.  The Kamloops trout is very widespread in Southeastern BC. and NE Washington State. – Keith

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The best fighting trout is the one you have on your line right now

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Eric

I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow trout. They run 12 to 22 inches and are hot as a pistol. They are a great fly rod fish and there are less of them every year. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows.

Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years. I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These

fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince

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All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years.   I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Eric, I think the rainbow is a real acrobatic fighter while the brown is more like a bull dog.  Also the cutthroat, the brookie, and the golden all vie with each other over which is the most beautiful that depending water and environment. My favorite trout happens to be the one that’s on the end of the line but I do have a bit of a preference for Mr. Brown Trout. My favorite fish on a fly rod would be a large white fish or carp from the side channel in the lower Yellowstone River. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow

Umm, yeah I forgot about the half-pounders!  They are little silver missiles.  Probably the friskiest fish I’ve ever had on.  The Rogue is a great river.  They are protecting them now. -Burton

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow BTW–has anyone developed fly to imitate the fish-food-pellet hatch? It could float for a second then sink to the bottom where it would swell up DJones No, but I have seen some pretty novel approaches to "fly fishing".  On the

Metolius River I have seen a yellow Cheeto Fly and a white Bread-crumb Fly fished below the Allingham Bridge from which tourist types are prone to throw things in an effort to get a rise from a big fish.  It frequently works. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around TimW Yeah, the sea-run cutt’s are dynamite hear on the Oregon Coast.  However,

they have declined so bad it’s getting hard to find them.  I pick one up occasionally while targeting other fish.  They strike like it’s their last meal. Burton

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

My preference is the rainbow, since I like fish that jump.  Brown’s give you a nice tug of war, but that’s about all.  Then best of all is the sea-run rainbow, the steelhead.  I have had hens that I swear could tailwalk on the water. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince Yup, nice fighting fish!  One of the better strains for flyfishing.  They

originally came from the Washougal in Washington, but now are all over the place including Peru. -Burton

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. They can leap many times their own length out of the water and they run back and forth like their life depended on it. (Reminds me of my kid on too many snicker bars) And ya gotta hand it to them for their gusto going for that huge fly, it must look like a whole day

Question:

Sorry for the subject in BIG CAPS, but I’m getting frustrated at the completely lame smallmouth fishing this year in the mid-Atlantic region.  Nobody I know in the DC area has had any luck flyfishing for smallmouth (note I did NOT say "spincasting with pig ‘n jigs for smallmouth!") The Potomac has had one of its highest springs in history, and as I speak, is raging away at 6.5 feet, way the hell too deep, fast, and muddy for smallmouth fishing.   Looks like it’ll be July before smallmouth conditions get good… (I should explain – this is frustrating because I live about 400 yards from the Potomac, and can easily walk to the river from home to fish every day.  Alas, I haven’t done that in ages!) Has anybody anywhere else been having a booming smallmouth spring? Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD //// Remember: smallmouth fishing on the Potomac is Lefty Kreh’s favorite kind of fishing!  (Ask him—it’s true!) ///

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Hi Scott,   The smallmouth fishing has been EXTREMELY slow this spring. The coast fork of the Willamette is (was?) full of them and they were game takers. The fishing is also helped by the large ’salmonid predjudice’ that we have locally. So still very little pressure on them. But we both know what they are missing and I’m NOT TELLING. Pretty much the same thing that you are up against, high cold water due to a late, wet, cold spring. Better than the floods a few months back. I hope things pick up for you a little later this spring. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman p.s.  I live close to Eugene Oregon 300 yds from the Willamette river.

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