Question:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

Yes; what everybody else told you and this.   To get distance on the forward cast, you need to load the rod properly.   When your back cast straightens behind you (no big loops), start the forward cast a bit more slowly until the rod begins to load from the weight of the line, THEN apply all that power you’re using.   Don’t give it the full magilla all at once.   It should be a gradual acceleration, not a sharp increase to full power. Joe F.

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

Well, first, quit stuffing your fly – it’ll make the girls (or the boys, depending on your personal choices) think you silly – and that way, you’ll not jerk it out.  Hmm…that reminds me of Blazing Saddles – "pardon me while I whip this out…," and speaking of whipping…. …yup, "cracking the whip" is timing.  Turn your head and look over your shoulder at the fly – and for Pete’s (or really, the Canadian of your choice) sake, don’t use full-hook flies to practice – try using bright, puffy whiffs – and try beginning your forward cast when the fly begins to start into the loop’s roll.  I suspect your particular distance thing is timing-related, as well, due to timing because of <oh, lord, well, let’s just say it’s likely timing-related, but without more info and seeing you cast, I’ll make that guess and leave it at that.   Just stay with it, you’ll get it – practice, practice, and oh, BTW, practice. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards, Eric

Response:

…. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights?

Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married. Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

Response:

…. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights?

LOL.   In keeping with the oft-dispensed advice, I thought long and hard before hitting the send key on that one.   Thought I could slip it benignly past if I omitted all controversial adverbs. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married.

Why would I wanna marry a duck, via whatever means…oh, you just want the film rights so you can sell the tape….on eBay…. TC, R fearing the ductile nature of threads…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

Response:

Via duck, vie not a turkey or a chicken? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load… <oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married. Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?

No It’s really hard to fix your problem by suggesting  possible solution with words alone.  You may want to rent a casting video from a local fly fishing shop.  If the line droops when you do try to let it completely unroll on the backcast, try aiming your backcast a little bit up and to the back and not just to the back.  HTH. Mu

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

Eric: Something that helped me alot was waiting until I felt the rod "load up" on my back stroke. I also notice this is easier to feel with a "slower" rod. Just a thought. M. Wm.

Response:

Casting next to big picture windows….the solar tinted kind that act like mirrors…can aid in watching how your line behaves while it’s behinds you. I’m just a not very sensitive guy. It seems like my hands take forever to learn something….I mean you should have seen the hook and weight contraption I had to build just to learn how to tie bloodknots.  Having acces to one of these type of windows helped me learn to cast (not that I can). Being able to see when I was supposed to be feeling my line assisted me in actually learning to feel it. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

Response:

…. load…

<oh lord  He said it!  He said it! <G TC, R Where’s that duck dropping from the lights? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe F.

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

If the fly "cracks" when you commence your forward cast, this is a result of it breaking the sound barrier when it "goes around the bend". This will shred most flies very quickly indeed, if it does not break them off to start with. This is caused by you reversing direction, and applying forward motion to the fly, while it is still travelling backwards. The fault is indeed caused by starting the forward stroke too soon.  This is often compounded by allowing the rod to "drift" too far back, or indeed a power stroke which is too long. Too much power is also a cause of this fault. The remedy is to apply less power, stop your backast a little earlier, and wait for the line to straighten before commencing the forward stroke. Concentrate on throwing your backcast "up", instead of "back", and the fault will probably disappear.  Watching your back-cast will help here. When the line is straight out behind you, commence the forward stroke. When casting heavy flies, or greater distances, a "single haul" may be of considerable assistance. This is a pull on the line with the "line" hand, at the start of the forward stroke. TL MC

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?

It means MAXIMUM POWER!!!  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.

Just kidding.  It’s bad.  You definitely need to wait.  Stick with it – maybe take a lesson – you will definitely be able to generate line speed other ways.   You’re not trying to cast like 80 feet, are you?

Response:

  I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts?

It sounds like your analysis is correct.  This is not normal and you should try and let the line straighten out behind you.  Perhaps you can add a little haul on the  forward cast to get more distance if it is a problem. I haven’t seen you cast and I am not a "casting coach," other than to some of my friends I am trying to teach, so take my advice for what it is worth. You get what you pay for and all that. . . Perhaps some of the better casters will chime in with their opinions. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique.  When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward.  Is this normal?  I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip.  The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.  The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys.  Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

Response:

Question:

First of all, do not attempt to attribute things to me that I did not say, by incorrect interpretation.  My reply to the original post read: "I wonder why somebody does not shoot you.  It would be an act of kindness to humanity." This is not open to interpretation. The statement is clear and complete, there is no ambiguity.

I agree that it’s clear.  An "act of kindness to humanity" is "good". You offered me useless, condescending,  and unsolicited advice…

On the contrary, I implied you had something good to offer when you post fly fishing information.  What you perceived as advice was actually a lighthearted way of saying I don’t approve of what you said.  As I’m sure you’d agree, there are times when something disagreeable is said in ROFF, and times when someone feels compelled to speak against it.  Perhaps I should have replaced the lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek tone of voice in the post with a simple "that was uncalled for and I don’t like it."  Then you couldn’t interpret it as condescending, or advice.  It was a statement of disapproval, nothing more.  …There are no "lines" here, which have not already long since been crossed, as people never tire of reiterating.

I think George clearly "crossed the line" when he wished Charlie Choc dead. If someone hadn’t flamed him for it first, I would have.  Let’s keep things in perspective.  We are talking about George Gerhke, not Timothy McVeigh. Timothy McVeigh deserves to die. This is an extremely  serious personal confrontation between myself, and another person. It is being carried out here because this is where it started, and because it is also of general interest.

If it is of general interest, then why would you tell me to keep out of it? If it’s personal, then why is it in public?

Response:

At this particular point I would like to take the opportunity of apologising to Jeff Connelly.  It was not my intention to be quite so personally insulting towards you. Upon reading the post again, I was indeed a little harsh on you, and there was no reason to jump on you like that. The sentiments expressed reflect my thoughts exactly, but it was unfair to direct them at you personally. I know you basically meant well. Please accept my apologies.

Accepted.  I apologize for sounding like a wise guy.  My intent wasn’t to be condescending, it was: "I think that kind of talk is out of line."  I’d say the same thing no matter who said it.  I think you and I basically feel the same way about things around here.

Response:

I think George clearly "crossed the line" when he wished Charlie Choc dead. If someone hadn’t flamed him for it first, I would have.  Let’s keep things in perspective.  We are talking about George Gerhke, not Timothy McVeigh. Timothy McVeigh deserves to die.

Jeez Connelly, what planet do you live on?  Get a grip man.  Wishing someone dead is not an uncommon thing.  It’s something everyone has longed for at one time or another, and it doesn’t make one evil, uncaring, or even noteworthy.  Each and every one of us deserves to die in someone’s estimation.  Big deal.  Let’s keep thing in perspective here; it’s not as if he wants to deprive him of the right to vote or something. Wolfgang

Response:

Jeez Connelly, what planet do you live on?  Get a grip man.  Wishing someone dead is not an uncommon thing.  It’s something everyone has longed for at one time or another, and it doesn’t make one evil, uncaring, or even noteworthy.  Each and every one of us deserves to die in someone’s estimation.  Big deal.  Let’s keep thing in perspective here; it’s not as if he wants to deprive him of the right to vote or something.

Wolfgang, why don’t you just shrivel up and die.  Hey, that felt good!  Can I have your fly tying stuff?

Response:

I only wonder if the FBI Agent that shot the little baby and the mother though the screen door AT RUBY RIDGE will be at Timothy McVeigh’s side holding the last needle clamp? My question is this.  What is the point?  If anyone thinks this execution is going to make people feel good, I don’t think so. I wouldn’t be surprised if McVeigh sneers or smiles at everyone before the State kills him.  But what is his point?  What is the message Timothy McVeigh has been trying to get across?  If anyone has an opinion? I wonder, in some strange way, if society may end up making him a martyr agaisn’t the politically incorrect?  Usually, there is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a crime for a crime? What a mess.  Exactly, what the hell is going on?  This man doesn’t care if they kill him.  He is going to his death, satisfied and convinced it was worth it all.  But?  WHAT was worth it?  What is his motive and will it pay off in the long run IF there IS a light at the end of the McVeigh tunnel/mystery? Strange? http://www.msnbc.com/news/557958.asp — George Gehrke   "All’s Fair With Fur or Feather" (gg) http://www.gink.com/chat  questions & answers site 7 PM Weekdays Pacific Time

Response:

I only wonder if the FBI Agent that shot the little baby and the mother though the screen door AT RUBY RIDGE will be at Timothy McVeigh’s side holding the last needle clamp?

You who have so much knowledge of things concerning flyfishing insist on posting not only off-topic stuff, but subjects you know will start a controversy with you right in the middle, I suspect right where you want to be. First off, this dipshit killed 168 innocent people, none who had a damned thing to do with Ruby Ridge, and he deserves to die.  That he apparently has a death wish (or wants to be seen as a martyr) is of no consequence in these proceedings. Secondly George, it is not the State of Indiana who is killing him, it is the US Government, the place of execution just happens to be in Terre Haute, IN. not that I give a crap where he dies. Frank Church

Response:

snipped to save room: Secondly George, it is not the State of Indiana who is killing him, it is the US Government, the place of execution just happens to be in Terre Haute, IN. not that I give a crap where he dies. Frank Church

I’m sure not many people do.  You’re right about it being a Federal Case.   Just forget it.  You’re right. — George Gehrke   "All’s Fair With Fur or Feather" (gg) http://www.gink.com/chat  questions & answers site 7 PM Weekdays Pacific Time

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I wonder why somebody does not shoot you.  It would be an act of kindness to humanity. MC

Response:

I wonder why somebody does not shoot you.  It would be an act of kindness to humanity.

Slack off Mike before you become what you hate.  Find your way back to the fly fishing posts where you can do some good.  I’m sure your stretched blood vessels will thank you in the morning.

Response:

Slack off Mike before you become what you hate.  Find your way back to the fly fishing posts where you can do some good.  I’m sure your stretched blood vessels will thank you in the morning.

You just do not get it, do you? I must have done something really special at one time or another to deserve all the wonderful free advice I am getting lately. In order to become anything even remotely resembling Gehrke, to whom I assume you are referring, I would require, at the very least, a frontal lobotomy, a minimum forty years of practice at being the biggest arsehole extant, and my balls cut off. Even then, it is still doubtful whether I could ever be evil, dishonourable, or stupid enough to fill the bill. One last time, I do not hate Gehrke.  It is not possible for a sensible man to hate a thing. I did not hate the dog that bit my wife once, right outside our house, I simply destroyed it before it could bite her or anybody else again. I jumped on it and  broke its neck, although it also bit me twice in the arms. At least two ineffectual wankers who were present, including the owner of the beast, complained about that too, and attempted to prevent me from grabbing the animal in the first place. They can thank their lucky stars they did not cause me any real problems, or really get in my way, especially as my wife was still bleeding badly from the bite when the police arrived some time afterwards. All the stupid bastards could do was moan about the poor dog. Even the policemen were disgusted at them, especially after seeing the wound in my wife

Question:

If a person were to find themselves in Puerto Vallarta for a week, how, and where would one go about arranging to fly fish?  What equipment would you be able (or should) take with you?  What does a charter cost?  etc. Thanks, Steve

Response:

I’d take a 10 or 9 wt.  Prefer at 10.  Take a sinking line and a floater and a basket.  Take flies surf fishermen use in california and big poppers.  You may not be able to find an experienced fly guide but you can catch fish. Possibilities should include Roosters, and Dorado,  Robalo (Snook),  Corvina (like a Red but in the surf and tricker.)  You may have to guide the guide but you should be able to find a Panga and a guia who can find fish.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a person were to find themselves in Puerto Vallarta for a week, how, and where would one go about arranging to fly fish?  What equipment would you be able (or should) take with you?  What does a charter cost?  etc. Thanks, Steve

Response:

MR  Neeley  There are a number of charter boats at PV . You  will truely be in a fishing paradise . PLEASE take advantage of every moment .,  I have seen little kids go out on dugout like  canoes and catch 20 pound dolphin , on hand lines . The other pratice it for the locals to go out in their long boats with nets streches inbetween the boats . they can   vacumm a bay in a matter of hours . the bottom there is rocky , with the shore line with small pebbles . and some sand thrown in too . In addition to a fly rod i would bring a nice  light tackle spin outfit …and a good  a medium action bait reel.. i use the penn 965 . For Fly fishing i would  go to a  a surfing hot spot north of town called Punta de Mita .  there is a little bay right at the point . .  Wade out like 100 yards , on the rocky  bottom , and climb on top on one of the many bolders in the surf . In the incoming tide you can cast 360 degrees above and out of the water . It is unlimited what you can catch there in about 4 feet of water , but it includes , rock bass , little tuna , dolphin , and tarpon . I have seen sharks there also . The wave will come in and the water will be 6 feet deep , and as it passes  the water level will drop 2 feet. I have had the most luck in a incoming tide . In fact it is like a light switch .  Plug fishing is really great too .I like the small two gang  hook mirrorlures . The bottom is rocky , you have to have a very tough leader . Also , it is a long walk out , be sure to talk everything you need , cause it takes a while to walk back inshore .  Also just north of town , where  the ferry docks are , there is a great jetty , which is good for typical jetty fishig .   The boats there are , or have been quite old , all wood , look like they were made in the 30’s . BUT  this is slowly getting better. But their fishing gear on the boat is all very heavy duty . They are great guys , and will fish the way you want if you want to tease a fish and cast a fly at it . The marlin are only a few miles off shore .  This is a paradise , research it , and make the most out of your trip . Hale Savannah

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Question:

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

Response:

We went to Dillon 2 weeks ago for a few days.  The upper section of the Big Hole is closed to fishingnow, when we were there we were surprised at how low the Beaverhead and Big Hole were.  The water levels in the rivers and creeks are extremely low.  I live in Helena and work at a sporting good store, the reports that we’re getting from custormers is that Rock Creek fishing is poor due to low water.  Fishing has been great on the Missouri where the water level is low, but not low enough to cause concern yet.

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

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Question:

I’m in with a variation of the wet McGinty my favorite bluegill fly.      Jim Robinson * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Frank Church writes:

(snip) This could get interesting.

The timing is a little off.  Fishing season starts next week (for me) in Maine for a month.  I won’t have time to tie, but I can come up with 12 flies (all of them catchers of trout) from my fly box.  They ain’t presentation flies, but they catch fish.  Count me in, Frank. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Count me in too, Frank.  Sounds like fun. I would appreciate a little info about how to use the fly as well, i.e. how to fish it, for what species, etc. Pat K

enough – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  

Response:

You touch a sensitive point here. Isn’t it remarkable that flies you intend to give away have to meet much higher standards than the flies you fish with? Suddenly the flies you put all your trust in at the water aren’t good enough to pass on to somebody else. So why not tie them ‘presentable’ in the first place? Same problem here.. I intend to tie CDC & Elk’s #14 for the swap, have plenty in my box, but I allready know I’ll tie 12 new, immaculate ones. Herman Frank Church writes: (snip) This could get interesting. The timing is a little off.  Fishing season starts next week (for me) in Maine for a month.  I won’t have time to tie, but I can come up with 12 flies (all of them catchers of trout) from my fly box.  They ain’t presentation flies, but they catch fish.  Count me in, Frank. Dave LaCourse

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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OK Ope, your in.  With Pat and Dave LaCourse, we have 9 now.  Stay tuned and we’ll see if we can get the minimum 12 (or more, why not?) Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, Count me in.  I don’t tie very well yet, but the flys I have tied, especially my nymphs, catch trout.  I’ll do my best to not disappoint the tie masters! Opie

Response:

OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Screw the whiners, and those that send flies without postage..guess what…*I* get to keep their flies! Frank Church

Response:

It’s probably not a big deal to have "doubles" in the swap, ie: 2 guys tying the same flies, but it would be nice if everyone got a complete mix of flies.  So how about if those who want to join in the swap indicate to me on or off list what fly you intend to tie. When this thing jells (or not) next Thursday, I will publish a complete list of the tiers and what they intend to tie. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

I intend to tie  CDC & Elk’s #14 for the swap, have plenty in my box, but I allready know – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll tie 12 new, immaculate ones. Herman

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Count me in Frank, post the details at your convenience.                             Tom Littleton

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OK Paul, you’re on the list. Frank Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am still a fairly new fly tier but this sound very interesting .  Please add my name to the list and let me know what happens.

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Frank, Count me in.  I don’t tie very well yet, but the flys I have tied, especially my nymphs, catch trout.  I’ll do my best to not disappoint the tie masters! Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

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Steve Z OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister. Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Every time I tied on a MC fly in NC, I caught a trout.  Great ties.  I have found that if you complain, just a little, you won’t have to eat the postage costs. <g Dave,  regularly fed on "postage costs". d;0)

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As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

Frank, Count me in. I hosted the last swap on ROFF, somewhere last year, and the number of participants was quite low compared to the number of regulars over here. Hope this one will be different. What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly, the ‘I can tie these with my eyes closed, a bottle of Lagavullin’ down the hatch and still outfish anyone’fly? Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature?

Count me in Frank.  I’d say let’s start asap, but I am still tying my donations to the western raffle.  Although a few more wouldn’t hurt. . . — Warren Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html Before you buy.

Response:

…What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly,…..

I happen to have one of those, Herman.  And I even have recent witnesses as to it’s efficacy.  Count me in.

Response:

Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it? Herman …What _might_ work is a favourite simple fly swap? The thing you tie on when you haven’t got a clue what’s working, the ‘looks like shit but catches an uncanny amout of fish’fly,….. I happen to have one of those, Herman.  And I even have recent witnesses as to it’s efficacy.  Count me in.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it?

Doesn’t matter, really.  Herbs are widely available; no reason we can’t repeat the recipe whenever needed.

Response:

Now you’re making me curious.. so this swap has to succeed, no matter what. We’re still talking about flies, right? Are you sure those witnesses weren’t influenced by the ‘recreational herbs’ as Ken put it? Doesn’t matter, really.  Herbs are widely available; no reason we can’t repeat the recipe whenever needed.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Now you’re making me curious.. so this swap has to succeed, no matter what. We’re still talking about flies, right?

Huh?  Flies?    :) O.K. Yes, we are talking about flies.  I was introduced to a pattern called a Pass Lake by the Malignant Dwarf many years ago.  Clipped mallard flank tail, fine black chenille for the body, a couple of turns of brown hackle swept back, and a white calf tail wing trude style.  This bug resembles nothing that ever lived in a stream or a lake and it has a perverse tendency to sink when you want it to float and vice versa.  Doesn’t matter much though because it consistently takes fish either way.  Trout and blue gills love it.  Herbs are optional, season to taste.

Response:

I’d be in for a "favorite" flyswap. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As mentioned in a previous post, I have participated in a few fly swaps a fly swap or two during the year?  Winter is a good time for most of us that live in cold country, and are probably at the tying bench anyway.  As a newbie flytyer, I found this a good way to acquire some really well tied flies, and moved me to get at the vise and tie, tie, tie. (read learn, learn, learn)  Several fly swaps, each with a different "swapmeister", say a warmwater swap, and one for trout.  The number of people signing up for a swap would determine how many flies you would tie, and you would receive the same number. How about some feedback folks, how many would be interested in participating in a venture of this nature? Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

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OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  This can be either warmwater or trout type flies (your choice)  For this thing to be worth the effort for everyone, not the least of which is *me*, we must get a MINIMUM of 12 swappers.  I will be on the road until Monday or Tuesday, so in the meantime you can decide if you want to participate.  Post your name to ROFF so we can all see who is in the swap.  So far, we have: Frank Church Herman Nijland Warren Findley Wolfie Willi Loehman newer tiers among us, you don’t have to be an "expert" at this (as I certainly am not)  just be willing to give it a shot. From past experience, a few rules will apply should this proposed swap actually come about____ 1.  We will set a deadline as to when I must receive all the flies. 2.  Send your flies in a container that is apt to survive the USPS. 3.  Include return postage with your offering, and I will mail your flies back to you in the      container which you originally shipped to me. 4.  Put a tag on the hook naming the fly, the tyer, and any other pertinent info.      (without this, the recipients will have to guess, you wouldn’t want that, would you?  :-) 5.  In my experience, 30 days is about enough time for everyone to get ‘em tied and back to me.     There are always one or two who wait to the last possible minute and are late getting the flies in,     so a grace period will be set, and only I will know that so you procrastinators need to take heed. That’s about it…..it would be nice to have a lot of participants, think about it. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

How many flies were we talking about here? Mu

Response:

I am still a fairly new fly tier but this sound very interesting .  Please add my name to the list and let me know what happens. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.  This can be either warmwater or trout type flies (your choice)  For this thing to be worth the effort for everyone, not the least of which is *me*, we must get a MINIMUM of 12 swappers.  I will be on the road until Monday or Tuesday, so in the meantime you can decide if you want to participate.  Post your name to ROFF so we can all see who is in the swap.  So far, we have: Frank Church Herman Nijland Warren Findley Wolfie Willi Loehman newer tiers among us, you don’t have to be an "expert" at this (as I certainly am not)  just be willing to give it a shot. From past experience, a few rules will apply should this proposed swap actually come about____ 1.  We will set a deadline as to when I must receive all the flies. 2.  Send your flies in a container that is apt to survive the USPS. 3.  Include return postage with your offering, and I will mail your flies back to you in the      container which you originally shipped to me. 4.  Put a tag on the hook naming the fly, the tyer, and any other pertinent info.      (without this, the recipients will have to guess, you wouldn’t want that, would you?  :-) 5.  In my experience, 30 days is about enough time for everyone to get ‘em tied and back to me.     There are always one or two who wait to the last possible minute and are late getting the flies in,     so a grace period will be set, and only I will know that so you procrastinators need to take heed. That’s about it…..it would be nice to have a lot of participants, think about it. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

OK folks, I hadn’t planned to volunteer for a fly swap but if enough interest is shown I will serve as swapmeister.

Watch out for the whiners who don’t get Mike Connor’s flies–and be prepared to eat the postage costs –Steve

Response:

That depends on the number of participants.  With 12 participants, say, each one ties 12 (of the same) flies of their choice, mail them to me, then I will re-distribute the flies so everyone gets 12 different flies.  We will have to wait to see how many sign up.  I think the cut-off date for sign-up should be a week from now, 24 May.  Then we’ll know how many you have to tie. I want to stress that this is a "your favorite fly" swap,  so anything goes as far as what fly you choose to tie and submit.  This could get interesting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many flies were we talking about here? Mu

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Question:

Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mu, I ordered my Special Flyfishing Catalog from Cabelas.  However, it takes 7-10 day.  I have not yet received it.  I’m hoping I’ll get it soon. Thaks for the info.  I’ll look in the catalog when it comes. Vern In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10001211404380.1615- Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.=A0 Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? =20 Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu. —   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/ Before you buy.

Response:

Mu, I ordered my Special Flyfishing Catalog from Cabelas.  However, it takes 7-10 day.  I have not yet received it.  I’m hoping I’ll get it soon. Thaks for the info.  I’ll look in the catalog when it comes. Vern In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.10001211404380.1615- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.=A0 Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? =20 Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu.

–   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/ Before you buy.

Response:

Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger

I already did.  It’s www.cabelas.com Do you want me to give it you you again. www.cabelas.com Vern Before you buy.

Response:

The 100 packs are from saddles, not necks. They are "sized", namely they are marked with a hook size, 12-14-16-18. Cabelas does not carry the 20’s, but I have seen them somewhere else.  I just bought a "18", 1/2 of the feathers are 18’s , 1/2 are 16’s. As 1/4 saddles go for about $20, perhaps they are a better value, but they are sized "small" or "large". In general, Hoffman saddles contain 2 sizes.  For a beginner, a cape might be better. There are no good capes for 20 $ or less (regular price), however 1/2 capes might be available. Collins grade 3 capes are around 25 $, they are not as good as Hoffman, but they are not bad either, I like them better than Metz, and they come with a saddle which might be stiff enough for dry fly use on large flies (I haven’t tried it, but my grizzly saddle looks damn fine). I am not sure that buying the top of the line hackle is a great idea for a beginner, it is true that the feather count on a Whitings Gold makes it a great value, but one tends to waste a few feathers at the beginning of a fly tying career… -vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good neck hackle is $25 at my local flyshop.  Where can I get the stuff I need for a cheap price? Vern, if you have specific flies in mind, then you can get Hoffman 100 packs for about $14 (did you get the Cabelas fly fishing catalog yet?). Basically you get about enough hackle to tie 100 flies from a neck that (had it been whole) would have cost way more than $25.  Still, in the long run if you know you are going to tie many hundreds of flies, buying the $85 neck would make more sense. Mu.

Response:

Yes, that’s the one www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com www.cabelas.com

– Vern — Vern Before you buy.

Response:

says… Please give me the www adress of cabelas Ger

http://www.cabelas,com {easy guys I was just answering the question} a hopess addict and budding gear whore. — Michael Era

Question:

Hi out there         I am going to Poland for three weeks in july this summer. I was hoping that somebody could give me some advise about fly fishing in the Bialystok area (North-east). I have tried my national newsgroup, but there was no response, so please help.     Yours sincerely — Stud. Scient Torben Meldgaard Skelagervej 48 DK-8200

Question:

Fellow Fly Fishers     I am starting a web site and would like to know what information and features are imortant to you. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Paul Koulouris Shelburne, Vermont "The true joy of pursuing trout is that they live in such beautiful places"

Response:

This sounds like a great idea!! It would be good to know where the fishing is hot..and where it is not!! { In New Zealand that is!} Sharing what size trout everyone caught over the weekend and what fly they used!! I’m keen for this site!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fellow Fly Fishers     I am starting a web site and would like to know what information and features are imortant to you. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Paul Koulouris Shelburne, Vermont "The true joy of pursuing trout is that they live in such beautiful places"

Response:

Question:

What size tippet are you using, and what knot are you using to tie on your fly?  I fish for bass and panfish with a 5X tippet and do fine (bluegill up to maybe 6 inches, bass to about 15 inches).  Used to lose a lot of flies before I switched from an improved clinch knot to a Duncan loop/Uniknot – since then I haven’t had problems with losing flies.  Hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Hi Sky, I set the drag just heavy enough to keep the reel from back lashing or over running when I quickly pull some line off the reel. I then add more drag or resistance with my fingers on the fly line or use the rim control drag. I would then be sure that you have the right size tippet to match your fly size. Make sure that your leader/tippet is fresh and your knots are good. For #10, 12 & 14 dries I would use 5x tippet. For #16, 18 & 20 I would use 6x tippet.(7x later) For #8, 10 & 12 wet flies and nymphs I would use 3x tippet. For #14, 16 & 18 wet flies and nymphs I would use 4x tippet.(5x later) This is a chart I give to anglers that are just getting started. It is just for a rough guide and to get them thinking about using different size tippets with different size flies. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Breakoffs are the result of both reel drag and rod flex at the tip. A slower rod ie more flexible acts as a shock absorber to the fishes sudden movements and cushions the leader and light tippet. The drag is for breaking the fish’s runs (longer distance moves). I don’t know many fisherman that can use the old palm drag technique without just a little too much pressure just for a split secound that gives the fish your fly. Many reels have good drags like Lamson and Abel (and Cortland etc for the cheaper ones) I like the Bauer and other large arbor reels because their drag is the smoothest and most adjustable. I also have a Rhyle (sp?) which is resonably expensive and the drag is terrible. You keep having to reset it with a fish on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish. Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

You’ll probably get  a response from TimW, Halfordian Golfer on this one… He’s the one that usually works in drag in this NG…. #:)#

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice?

You are obviously holding harder than you need. Have a look at books on Pennsylvania fly fishing for trout, where tiny flies require light leaders, e.g. Ed Koch’s Fishing the Midge (1972).  There is a consensus there that even with big fish (say 5 lb.) the rod and guides provide about as much drag as the tippet can endure, depending on how high up you point the rod and how much the rod bends.  For this fishing, reel drag is minimal, i.e. just enough to prevent overrun. I.e. drag depends on the bend of the rod more than the resistance of the reel.  You even see this on salmon rivers where fish run 20 lb.  Reel drag setting is secondary to making the bend of the rod tire out the hooked fish. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

A top quality fly reel will have an excellent, working drag.  I use Penn International reels…great drag, great reel, expensive but worth it if you hook lots of big fish. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

Response:

Question:

     Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

and what would that "something" be?         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

At the age of 46, I’d be inclined to agree.  But here’s a story from my youth you may find amusing.  Back in ‘63, I was in Sequoia camping with a ‘Y’ group of youths my age.  We were there for fishing and hiking. ‘Fishing’ was the operative word, since no one had ‘caught’ anything.  At that time, FF wasn’t nearly the designer sport it is today.  I had only seen a couple people doing it and I was a fair distance away:  totally naive to the special gear required for the graceful casts. Taking my self quite seriously, I started whipping a spoon around using my 6′ ft, fiberglass, $12 Thrifty spinning rod and reel.  There I was, whippin that thing back and forth and every once in a while lettin the spoon drag through the pool.  On one of my "backcasts" I literally yanked a little 8 incher right out of the water, totally surprising both of us.  (This was the only trout caught by anyone on the trip!).  Subsequent flailing, for an hour or so produced no more fish.  Go figure.  I guess I put ‘em all down. (The most amazing part of this story is that I still have both of my eyes).  Now you can easily convince this 46 year old that aint flyfishin, but don’t try to convince that 12 year old kid.   Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing".

I guess this pretty well rules out spin casting a clear bubble attached above a 6′ leader having a dry fly attached.  Personally, this works for me because the result is to drift flies with a presentation that fools the fish in the same way your defined technique does.  (I don’t do this anymore, but it certainly wouldn’t chap my hide if I say someone plying ff only waters in this fashion, especially if it was a young’un)

Response:

   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

(hee hee) What is flyfishing ? If you have to ask or try and define it, you’ll never understand it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

        Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-) and what would that "something" be?

the first internet gigabyte waste of bandwith for "1997 Useless Threads" category…… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Maybe it could be simpler, fly fishing is fishing with a fly line. — Charlie…

Response:

 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.    Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

I’m attracted to this definition having posted something similar some time back. It concentrates on one major factor that makes flyfishing different; the cast. It also seems more consistent with the more ‘catholic’ outlook most flyfishers have these days (includes me) – adopt what works within rather broad confines. I do think though we have to exclude obvious ‘lures’ (spoons spinners etc) but don’t know what to do about "flys" that act like lures –  spoons flies tullis wigglers, plastic bills on bass poppers etc. So many of these things are constructed the same way we tie flies so though I’m tend to be not convinced they are flies I use them rather than condemn them. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Hi Jim Good point. I agree it’s a lot more important to help a kid get started than to argue about what fly fishing is. You also have a good summer. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Response: