Question:

FLYFISHING AND BACKPACKERS PART II OXBOW LESOTHO – VANITIES GRAVEYARD Before we get started lets get something straight. I can catch fish. ….etc.

Terrific report, Ari.  I’ve fished for trout in Malawi, the eastern highlands of Zimbabwe, and a bit in Western Cape, but never anywhere as remote and "back to nature" as you describe.  I’ve suspected there must be good fishing in Lesotho (from the geography), but never had any details.  How much of the Malibamatso is on the New Oxbow Lodge’s grounds?  Also, what do the guides you cite charge per day, more or less? JR

Response:

FLYFISHING AND BACKPACKERS PART II OXBOW LESOTHO – VANITIES GRAVEYARD By Ari Bert Before we get started lets get something straight. I can catch fish. Occasionally even big buggers come my way. I have photographs and witnesses to prove this. I even made a recent journey down to my waters in Dullstroom to prove this to myself. A couple of decent 3 (and above) pounders got my confidence up. Hard to catch yellows and kurper in Gauteng fell to my rod with alarming regularity,  So I can safely say that before the 10th of  April 2001 my head was a slightly enlarged one. Then somebody made mention to me about the difficulty of taking Wild Lesotho Trout on dry fly.  "Come on!" I replied, "It’s only trout!" If a half-a-million Yanks and Brits can hoik them out of their streams every day how hard can it be for us? "Those fish down in Lesotho probably have never even seen a fly before", thought I. "Easy pickings", assumed I. It soon became apparent that I was completely and utterly 100% wrong. The gauntlet was thrown down, so to speak. Now lets get something else straight. You can talk all you like about puristic intent, traditionalism and challenges, but the simple fact of the matter is

Question:

I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I would <snipped

this is the most gawdamnest advertising strategy i’ve ever seen. lines & business pretty slack in the keys, eh? –waldo

Response:

What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Ditto!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I think he’s trying to sell lace panties to fisherman. In that case, I’ll take two. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

Response:

Funny that, I didn’t even bother to read the original post but I’m lost – especially about the bizarre ones that follow this directly –  frodo etc. Sorry chaps (actually I think you ,frodo jump tarpon et al] are really all the same one) but your strategy is so odd and obtuse that I couldn’t care less what you say about each other, or is that about yourself?  You are confusing me with someone who gives a damn! Right on Ernie and Walt!! DBJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM?

I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

Response:

What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

Ask TimBone ;^)

Response:

I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like. Ask TimBone ;^)

Ouch!  That was hard!  God I love this place! W

Response:

Question:

        I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

Response:

YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

Response:

All hatchery trout should be planted, preferably in dirt. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

Response:

Are you planting the heads UP or DOWN ???? Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

Response:

Question:

One approach, although rather unconventional, would be to turn down all the cork handles on all your rods. Then take a meat cleaver and cut off your fingers at the first digit.  This should make the turn-downed handles work fine. Of course, you’ll have to re-learn the art of tying the fly to tippet. For a professional job, I think you’re going to have to remove the guides. Unless you don’t mind wrapping the handle with the fisherman’s friend, masking tape. Good luck.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

Allen, You could remove the remaining cork and the wraps for the winding check. Move the winding check up the shaft (out of the way). Then add new corks rings that have been cut in half. Don’t align all the cuts in-a-line from ring to ring. Turn to the rough final shape and patch the cut marks. If done correctly – the cuts will looksomewhat  like the normal filled-in marks on a cork grip. Then sand to the final shape. Move the winding check back and rewrap. Don Burns Wishful collector of Gillums and Dickersons – Owner of Montague, H-I and Heddons

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   One approach, although rather unconventional, would be to turn down all   the cork handles on all your rods. Then take a meat cleaver and cut off   your fingers at the first digit.  This should make the turn-downed handles   work fine. Of course, you’ll have to re-learn the art of tying the fly to   tippet.

You _CLEARLY_ win the "tip of the month" for this one.  I’m still laughing. Can’t think of an appropriate prize… maybe a knife sharpener. 3 Cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod.

Possibly mountain bike handlebar wrap or noeprene strips.  not classy but potentially light and very comfortable. See next weeks SPAM: "NeoGrip !! Revolutionary Grip Material" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

This may be a silly idea, and may not work at all, but then again, , If you have a decent bicycle shop in town, stop on by and check out their selection of handlebar tape. There is at least one decent quality natural cork tape out there, and a wrap of that might just do the trick. Worth lookin into anyway. luv chipper

Response:

Question:

Gary: Check out the collection <Batfishing in the Rainforest, in which you’ll find an odd and entertaining story about fishing for "tarpon" (probably not) either in Singapore, or across the Causeway in Johor State, Malaysia. You might have been watching carp, which roll on occasion.    The Malay name for them is Ikan Putih (Fish White).  They will take flies, and a big one will battle you untll you’re older. Ikan Puyu are a deep-bodied fish shaped somewhat like large bream, reaching a pound or two.  They school in large numbers, and regularly rise to hatches in the evening. The Ikan Haruwan is called a bowfin here–a primitive, extremely aggressive and toothy fish, with a flattened head and large scales.  At night they move into the shallows, especially in marshy areas, to hunt fish and frogs.  They’ll take poppers and streamers.  Use shock tippet. Note:  night fishing in the tropics can be unnerving, and I’ve encountered both cobras and reticulated pythons, neither of which are as frightening as the mosquitoes (nyamok) of the northern Malay peninsula.  (The southern mosquitos are quite timid by comparison, but they do carry dengue fever.) Go with a local, although it’s too true that many in that area are surprisingly ignorant of their own fauna. There’s half a chance–or half of half that–you saw mahseer, a spectacular gamefish that looks something like the fish you describe.  The British sahibs chased them in India, and I know they can be found in northern Malaysia and Borneo.  Mahseer can be caught on flies, I understand; the larger specimens–to 200 pounds–are piscavores.   See <Down the Crazy River. The more remote areas of South China sea have a variety of saltwater fish typical for the equatorial region, though  pollution and fishing pressure are both excessive.  Barracuda can still be found.  Note, however, that the water from Singapore north to Thailand–and beyond–all through the Straits of Mallacca, is the major drug smuggling route for the Golden Triangle.   Most of those folks have better things to do than fool with you.  Most, anyway:  just fish in a most convincing manner. Certainly an interesting area.  

Response:

I was in Singapore last week, as my company may relocate me out there for two years. I had guessed that would put and end to my fly fishing. I visited some gardens and there were a few lakes that you could fish. Some locals were there fishing with bait. To my surprise, around early afternoon, the lake was alive with rises. Some large fish could be seen rolling after taking a surface insect. I had no idea what the fish were, but they looked carp-like, with a dark back, golden sides and white bellies. Though I could not see the insect that was hatching I am sure I could catch them with, say, a tiny midge pattern or buzzer. The more I thought about, with the exception of the lack of trout, this has to be a kind of nirvana for flyfishing: no seasons, no major temperature changes, consistent weather all year round. This hatch could very well be a daily occurance.  Has anyone any information on fishing there? Also, if anyone has info on fly fishing in the Asia/Pacific region (I’ll be travelling all over and, happily, New Zealand will be included in this) I would greatly appreciate it. In any case, I’ll be sure to write to the group with my my own findings. Thanks, Gary McMeekin

Response:

Question:

Anybody know of decent kitchenette/condo accomodations close to the quality water on the San Juan River in New Mexico?  Looking for a place with a kitchen and a separate bedroom. John F

Response:

Anybody know of decent kitchenette/condo accomodations close to the quality water on the San Juan River in New Mexico?  Looking for a place with a kitchen and a separate bedroom. John F

Hi John You might try Abe’s Motel & Fly Shop at Navaho Dam. I’ve never been there but they are sure nice to talk with on the phone. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

The Best Western in Farmington!  I’m getting soft, but the hot tub and pool!! Not to much of a drive to the river. Doug — Doug & Tammy Stephens Paris, Idaho

Response:

        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

each passing year with the competition.  Best to take a camper.  Stay as independent as you can be here.  We pull a camper, can sleep four, cook ourselves, wax away near the river.  Several other places are available but buyer beware.  Your money can go fast here. — George Gehrke/President Gehrke’s World’s Best Fly Fishing Products Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 / 509-243-4100  FAX 4644

Response:

        Does anybody know a good place to stay near the quality water on the San Juan, where they have units with two rooms?  Like a kitchenette with a bedroom and a sofabed in the main room?  The only place I’ve stayed there, is Abe’s, and I don’t recall they had any rooms like that.         Also, is the fishing usually good there in late September/early October?

Response:

Question:

Hi  I would like to know what licenses I need for flyfishing in Finnmark, Norway??

Response:

Hi  I would like to know what licenses I need for flyfishing in Finnmark, Norway??

Try this URL: http://www.flyshop.no — Esa Niemel

Question:

I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

Response:

Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

Response:

Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Response:

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

Response:

writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

Response:

: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

Response:

Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

Response:

Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

Response:

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

Response:

: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

Response:

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Response:

It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

Response:

An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

Response:

An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

Response:

alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

Response:

Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

Response:

Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

Response:

Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Response:

Question:

I am headed down to Bend, Oregon this weekend and wanted to do a little fly fishing.  I know only portions of the Deschutes are open at this time (Bend north to Lake Billy Chinook) and was wondering if anyone had any advice on where to go and what to use.  Email me directly…and thanks in advance. Kevin Curry Linfield College

Response:

I am headed down to Bend, Oregon this weekend and wanted to do a little fly fishing.  I know only portions of the Deschutes are open at this time (Bend north to Lake Billy Chinook) and was wondering if anyone had any advice on where to go and what to use.  Email me directly…and thanks in advance. Kevin Curry Linfield College

Kevin and other Deschutes flyfishers: Check out the Online Gillie section at Flyfishers Online.  A long-time guide on the river has begun writing monthly articles as well as contributing condition reports for the river. Online Gillie is at: http://www.flyfishers.com:80/flyfishers-online/flyfishers-gillie.html Condition Reports are at: http://www.flyfishers.com:80/flyfishers-online/flyfishers-reports.html Cy Happy, a guide and partner at Ray’s River Dories (also at Flyfishers Online) floated Trout Creek to Maupin a week ago and reported that the high water flow had changed the bank topography quite considerably. For instance, at the favorite island lunch stop just south of North Junction he reported that the water had swept a good number of the bankside trees away, leaving the channel quite navigable; a change, indeed, from the past few years. Hope this helps. Best, Peter Yoakum, Editor Flyfishers Online

Response:

Question:

  I NEED to take my wife to a place where she can catch some trout – or SOMETHING – before she decides that WE don’t like fishing any more.   She presents well, but never seems to catch a fish. I am very unfamiliar with Virginia streams, and don’t know enough to help her with selecting an appropriate fly,I often find the Va. streams, that are stocked, fished-out ( I really believe that people follow the stocking trucks. I have taken her to stocked streams in the Nat’l forest and NOONE caught a fish. The rainbows and browns up high are very timid and a wonderful challenge, but Lisa doesn’t need a challenge now – just a fish or two so she can remember what it is all about ( I like to catch fish now & then too and this plea is not really so selfless ) Any info that you might have on a reasonable beginner stream with stocked trout would be most appreciated. Thanks Scott

Response:

Scott , have you tried the Jackson River? Its North of Covington, in the Hot spring area, there you will find good,I mean great Catch and release waters full of nice trout and others to catch. Your wife could easily catch enough to make her want to stay there forever!

Response:

Scott,    Perhaps something from the bass family would do her nicely? My wife became interested when the Smallmouth started biting, she’s into trout now, but it was the bass that interested her first. It’s a tough time of year to start if she’s a beginner. The water’s low and the fish are skittish and spooky. You need a long leader and a delicate approach. I took my wife to the Jackson this past weekend, and shewent fishless. If you can, try the Potomac, the Shenandoah River or the James, tie a Yellow popper (not too big) onto a 3-4x tippet or a black Wolley Bugger #8 and let her at ‘em. She’ll catch a fish. Best time for beginners is March to July. Hope this helps! Keith in Waterford, VA

Response:

 I NEED to take my wife to a place where she can catch some trout – or SOMETHING – before she decides that WE don’t like fishing any more. <<

Try another kind of fish. I recommend the Shenandoah. Give Manny Sainz a call at ‘the Hatch’ a bed and breakfast in Edinburg. He and his wife Bobby will give you a room, nice meal. hospitality, and a bunch of (non-trout) fish! Simon Hallett

Response: