Question:

Wait till you hear them harmonize on Bee Gees tunes!!

For the finale they re-enact the ‘party’ scene from ‘Apocalypse Now’. At the last clave some kid’s pony wandered in before Wayno could get the Ox away from LaPlac and in place. What a mess, I think there is still litigation in process on that… — Charlie…

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… At the last clave some kid’s pony wandered in before Wayno could get the Ox away from LaPlac and in place. What a mess, I think there is still litigation in process on that…

Yeah, last time I ever put my name on a week long ROFF rental. I’m being sued by the goat owner, the pony owner, the landlord, both neighbors and some poor guy that was driving by the Nangahalla while Louie was makin’ it with a gawdamn tree. — Ken Fortenberry

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 Besides, if it was really that easy to find, then I suppose I didn’t help out the troll too much anyway – the damage was already done.

My guess is that, if it was a troll, the object was to get someone other than the troller to post the web site thus making it seem more legit. FWIW. — Charlie…

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Louie was makin’ it with a gawdamn tree.

That was a good story.  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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If Bo is coming to the clave, sign me up.  I’d fish with her any time.  Is there a wading list?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what a coincidence.  the same threesome is scheduled for a reunion performance last night of the carolina clave.  that damn brando, what a bundle of laughs! wayno

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!!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!

Turns out it was not a troll after all – just a newbie looking for a pointer for a gift search. In the future maybe we should decide which is worse: a) allow a company to slip in a reference to their product b) turn off someone to a good source of information (i.e. this newsgroup) Regards, Jeff

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!!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! Turns out it was not a troll after all – just a newbie looking for a pointer for a gift search.

No offense to the newbie, but their web search engine of choice must really suck. — Charlie…

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!!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! Turns out it was not a troll after all – just a newbie looking for a pointer for a gift search. No offense to the newbie, but their web search engine of choice must really suck. — Charlie…

Maybe it was also someone new to the Internet and computers.  I know that my wife would have no idea what to do if buying me a gift over the Internet.  She would also have no idea how to search for anything. But, she does know that I’m always on ROFF.  She would probably be able to post a message here. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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Just a guess… but knowing Tom, and also knowing that he doesn’t state things lightly without a reason, I would hazard the guess that was the course of events…. Hence, his assertion of "the troll."

Maybe so.  NOT knowing Tom, I asked why he said so, and all I got in return was "Don’t you know what a troll is?"  So, I didn’t have much to go on.  Besides, if it was really that easy to find, then I suppose I didn’t help out the troll too much anyway – the damage was already done. Regards, Jeff

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oll. Saw that one on The Twilight Zone about forty years ago.  William Shatner, Marlon Brando, and Bo Derek, I believe.

        what a coincidence.  the same threesome is scheduled for a reunion performance last night of the carolina clave.  that damn brando, what a bundle of laughs! wayno

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oll. Saw that one on The Twilight Zone about forty years ago.  William Shatner, Marlon Brando, and Bo Derek, I believe.         what a coincidence.  the same threesome is scheduled for a reunion performance last night of the carolina clave.  that damn brando, what a bundle of laughs! wayno

Wait till you hear them harmonize on Bee Gees tunes!!

Response:

Maybe they only want us to believe its a troll.That way when we’re busy arguing about it they slip the real troll in and subliminally we’re thinking about that flybox,which we’re supposed to be ignoring because it’s a troll,but if it’s a troll how come I already know more about that flybox then I did before,and now here I am responding to the troll and somebody this very minute is fast mailing an ad for flyboxes to me and they tell me the only way I can get the stream to stop is if I go on a website and ask if anybody’s ever heard of richardson flyboxes.One catch:it can’t sound like a troll. Regards,Shawn

Response:

Maybe they only want us to believe its a troll.That way when we’re busy arguing about it they slip the real troll in and subliminally we’re thinking about that flybox,which we’re supposed to be ignoring because it’s a troll,but if it’s a troll how come I already know more about that flybox then I did before,and now here I am responding to the troll and somebody this very minute is fast mailing an ad for flyboxes to me and they tell me the only way I can get the stream to stop is if I go on a website and ask if anybody’s ever heard of richardson flyboxes.One catch:it can’t sound like a troll.

Saw that one on The Twilight Zone about forty years ago.  William Shatner, Marlon Brando, and Bo Derek, I believe.

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BTW, What does this mean:  "email me off list." Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Tom, However, I like choosing for myself which threads to respond to. According to AOL:  A troll is someone looking to pick a virtual fight! Are you a troll yourself. "Do you know what this means." Opie in NC This is a TROLL.  Do you know what this means?  If not, email me off list. Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC !!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! ??? why, who is this? Regards, Jeff

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This is a TROLL.  Do you know what this means?  If not, email me off list. Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – !!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! ??? why, who is this? Regards, Jeff

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Has anyone ever heard of this item or where I could find one? CLIP<<<<<<<<<<<<,

Look ——- I know what a troll is —— it’s a person  that drags a bait behind them hoping to catch a fish and then enjoy the act of fishing. I also know that I’ve fly fished for all kinds of fish, even blue gills, and had a hell of a lot of fun doing it, even if 90 % of them just boil the water and I don’t catch them. —- BUT — will someone please answer the question? What the hell is a Lloyd  " Little Bear " .

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will someone please answer the question? What the hell is a

Go to www.google.com and search. You’ll find their site pretty easily, I think. — Charlie…

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This is a TROLL.  Do you know what this means?  If not, email me off list. Tom !!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! ??? why, who is this?

Yes, I know what a troll is.  My question seems pretty clear to me.  WHY do you say that and WHO is this alleged troll?  How do you KNOW it’s a troll? Regards, Jeff

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—- BUT — will someone please answer the question? What the hell is a

Well, I was waiting to hear why I shouldn’t answer the question, but so far I haven’t heard a good reason, so… A Richardson fly box hangs on your chest and opens to a shelf.  It was popularized by Joe Humphreys, I believe (I know he uses one anyway).  I looked at them but they were too expensive.  www.chestflybox.com Regards, Jeff

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—- BUT — will someone please answer the question? What the hell is a Well, I was waiting to hear why I shouldn’t answer the question, but so far I haven’t heard a good reason, so… A Richardson fly box hangs on your chest and opens to a shelf.  It was popularized by Joe Humphreys, I believe (I know he uses one anyway).  I looked at them but they were too expensive.  www.chestflybox.com Regards, Jeff

Jeff, I think you swallowed the trolls proffered bait nicely. Knowing Tom, he read the original post and was intrigued. He did a search and found the product. During his search, the ever clandestine Tom noticing that the search result was easy, he questioned the original message’s integrity. He probably traced the poster’s address back to the company and wallah, he caught a red herring. Just a guess… but knowing Tom, and also knowing that he doesn’t state things lightly without a reason, I would hazard the guess that was the course of events…. Hence, his assertion of "the troll." Walt

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Thanks Tom, However, I like choosing for myself which threads to respond to. According to AOL:  A troll is someone looking to pick a virtual fight! Are you a troll yourself. "Do you know what this means." Opie in NC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a TROLL.  Do you know what this means?  If not, email me off list. Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC !!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! ??? why, who is this? Regards, Jeff

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!!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC Has anyone ever heard of this item or where I could find one?  I have been doing internet searches and am coming up with nothing.  Thanks for your help!!

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong."   H.L. Mencken

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!!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!

??? why, who is this? Regards, Jeff

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Since this space is used for trolling, I guess I can use it to ask an off-topic question? JeffC1474, what state are you in? Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – !!PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!! ??? why, who is this? Regards, Jeff

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Has anyone ever heard of this item or where I could find one?  I have been doing internet searches and am coming up with nothing.  Thanks for your help!!

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Question:

My buddy and I want to schedule our first trip out west to flyfish for trout.Spring or summer will be the plan. We will probably hire guides most of the time. We are looking for suggestions on where you guys would go if you had the chance.I have been saving for a long time to travel out west to fish for good size trout. I have been flyfishing for 15 years and have never fished west of New York. I am not looking for the most expensive trip but I dont mind spending some money for a quality experience. Thanks in advance br

Response:

Go to Ennis Montana from July 21-31.  It should be a lot of fun and very good fishing.  Other ROFFians will be there.  Check it out at the following url http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html — Vern Before you buy.

Response:

Why not try coming the the Northwest?  Here in British Columbia we have ton’s ‘o’ trout, even some bass, and lots of secluded lakes and rivers to try.  Plus the Canuck buck is cheap for you guys.  If I had the time and money I’d hit the Elk and St. Mary’s river systems in July, do some lake fishing "anywhere", but if you stick to the Kootenays, there’s Whitetail Lake and a number of other "trophy lakes" that are reasonably accessible. Check out www.anglingbc.com  or  www.sportfishingbc.com   or www.bcadventure.com   for some links and fishing guides or lodges. Cheers.

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Bruce,     The fishing in the Southwest corner of Montana is terrific.  I fish the Beaverhead, the Ruby, and the Big hole.  All have proved to be very good to me.  I have a friend who guides with Frontier Anglers out of Dillon Montana. His name is Garey Avis.  He has hooked me up with many nice fish.  If you are interested I could pass along his home phone number.     Make the trip, you’ll be glad you did. "Catch you Later" David Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My buddy and I want to schedule our first trip out west to flyfish for trout.Spring or summer will be the plan. We will probably hire guides most of the time. We are looking for suggestions on where you guys would go if you had the chance.I have been saving for a long time to travel out west to fish for good size trout. I have been flyfishing for 15 years and have never fished west of New York. I am not looking for the most expensive trip but I dont mind spending some money for a quality experience. Thanks in advance br

Response:

The fishing in the Southwest corner of Montana is terrific.  I fish the Beaverhead, the Ruby, and the Big hole.  All have proved to be very good to me.

Not any more.  The fish are all gone due to whirling disease.  The only fish left are the secret stashes I have and will only reveal to those that show up at the Western Conclave in Ennis (Jul 21-31) Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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I just received my "Fly-Fishing" magazine yesterday.  In it they have a good article about Henry’s Fork which is just across the south- western state line of Montana. According to "Fly-Fishing" magazine, the Henry’s Fork has rebounded to become one of the best fly-fishing rivers in America.  In fact, "Sports Afield" rated Henry’s Fork in their April 1999 issue as one of the top fly-fishing rivers in the USA and "Trout" magazine recently rated Henry’s Fork as the BEST trout stream in America. (I know that the names of the magazines should not be in quotation marks but underlined or italicized instead.  However, I don’t have that ability when using deja.com) I know that Henry’s Fork is not in Montana, but it is almost in Montana.  At least, it’s on the same place of the globe. I’m going to fish Henry’s Fork on August 1 after the western conclave. If any of you have a little extra time after the western conclave, join me.  It should be fun. — Vern ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular scenery. Rich Utah Fish Finder http://www.utahfishfinder.com/flyfishing.shtml

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Rich wrote I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular

scenery. I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. —                                                       -dnc-

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It really depends on what you’re looking for…and sometimes, where there are lot of trout – there are also lots of people. You may want to try Northwest Montana as an option (lots of trout and not many people) – The Kootenai River (45 minutes south) has some great troutfishing – a couple of years ago a 30+ pound rainbow was caught! In addition, in our area – just to the west of Glacier Park – there are plenty of local trout lakes, rivers, streams, and higher alpine lakes that are tremendous…I enjoy fishing them because I’m usually the only person in the area – and they produce great rainbow and native cutthroat trout. On the Kootenai River – I would recommend Dave Blackburn (see the link on my links page) – he knows the river extremely well.  Several of the other lakes and streams are accessible by forest service trails – and are well marked – there really isn’t a need for a guide. Good luck on finding that special place! Keith and Dona The Montana Cabin http://www.TheMontanaCabin.com Rich wrote I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular scenery. I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. —                                                       -dnc-

Before you buy.

Response:

I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you.

You can skip the elbow grease if you fish downstream of little hole, but even then, plan on hiking several miles to escape the hordes. Stay upstream of red creek, especially if rain is in the forecast. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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–                                                       -dnc- Rusty Hook wrote I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. You can skip the elbow grease if you fish downstream of little hole, but even then, plan on hiking several miles to escape the hordes. Stay upstream of red creek, especially if rain is in the forecast.

Thanks for the advice.  I’ll be there in May.  I threaten to try the B section every year but still have not, maybe this year.  Red Creek is downstream from Little Hole I take it.  Is this a safety warning (like, if it rains too much it may be difficult to get home) or just a fishing warning (like, if it’s raining, Red Creek turns the Green to Red)?

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Question:

And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish.

I was a fairly successful bass fishermen in my youth, but once I returned in my adult years I have not done well, even with the same tackle and same locations, well, I can understand that. I figured if I wasn’t going to catch fish, I might as well do it with style (flyfishing).  I know this sounds sarcastic, but there’s truth in it. I *do* need to get a better start this time, and would like guidance and lessons, in my area, which is San Jose – the Santa Cruz moutain area not far from me…. I remember as a kid with my dad fishing for and watching steelhead in the San Lorenzo river in Boulder creek, in the tropical parts of the mountains. They would circle in and out of the dark pools.  This was before the great drought in the 80’s which did in much of the salmon and trout in that area. My desire to fish has much to do with where I fish as it does just catching fish.   Hope this makes sense.  And I would love to fish for blue gill if I knew somewhere good. Greg

Response:

RP138 wrote … … It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

If you intend to fly fish, starting with a guide is the best advice I know of.  This can be expensive (250-300 $ a day) but a good guide is worth it. There is a fly fishing school in Northern California called Clearwater House (they have a web site).  This is where I got jump started into fly fishing and I highly recommend it (or others like it, if you can find them). Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.  This NG is proof of that.  A good place to meet potential fishing partners is at a fishing club.  Most localities have fishing clubs for every type of fishing; bass clubs, fly fishing clubs, deep sea clubs…you name it and generally they welcome newcomers.  There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time.

Response:

Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.

So right.  Makes all the difference.  But it’s not like golf – can’t explain it, but that’s the case .There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them.

That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. Mark Faulkner

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(snipped) << There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time. I beg your pardon, David.  I am a curmedgeon and I think you have given the best advice possible!  Nothing learns a man quicker than catchin’ a fish, and many times, a guide is the only way.  I applaud your advice, sir.  The advice about finding a fishing partner is especially good — I am willing and able if you live in Mass. Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

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<<That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. This is true.  I will steal two Sleeman’s from Peter Charles and share with you at the ‘clave.  But *only* if I catch more fish than you! Dave LaCourse

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — Charlie…

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on….. Dave

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on…..

Rocking chairs at 2 paces it is<g! — Charlie…

Response:

Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 years. I tried flyfishing last go-around, but didn’t get far. Can anyone recommend a good rod/reel/line/leader/fly set-up for fishing the streams around Boulder creek, CA, or even Guadalupe river in San Jose (yes, I’ve heard there’s fish). Any help would be appreciated, I definately would like to keep it as simple as possible. Greg

Response:

A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

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<<A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob. Hi, Bob. You know, I have seen lots of advice given on these pages to newbies, but your’s (above) makes a helluva lot of sense, especially the "guide" part.  There is nothing more convincing to a newbie than catching fish, and if they know little about the art, the best way is with a guide.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. : : Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then : after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 : years. Greg, This may sound snide or something…but I mean it in all honesty. Unless you change your approach, your mentality towards it, you will not be a fisherman. You will give up each time. Fishing cannot be aquired in a few months. It is not a recreation you will conquer in a short time by throwing yourself at it. Sure, you can learn some basic skills, like flycasting, by hours of backyard practice. But where to cast? What to cast? When to cast?  All these questions will only begin to be answered by spending time, much time, on the water. By watching, waiting, and making many, many mistakes. It is a lifetime of learning, of which we all just scratch the surface. It is about figuring out how the natural world is working on that day, in that hour, that you are there, so that you can mimic it, or agitate it, or attract it, in such a way as to make a fish strike. If you perservere, the rewards are great. And, you can make it easier at the start by going after fish that are generally easy to catch, like panfish. Your local shop can tell you what and where you might find easier fishing. And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish. JonCook.

What Jon said nails it also. I went fishing at Jordanelle Res. yesterday, float tubed while the ole lady tried her kickboat. 4 hours in the water-didn’t catch a damn thing froze my ass and feet off. Didn’t even get a hit. Same with my wife. But it didn’t matter. We were out there, having fun(?) It’s a state of mind. I fish because it’s relaxing, catching them is an added bonus. Plus it keeps me out of trouble. Plus it’s good distance casting practice. We did help some  first time, "We just got the boat and the salesman said it was all ready to go" boaters. No one bothered to tell them what the little hole below the outdrive was for and why there was no plug in it. After he saw he was taking on water, he decided to ask for some timely advice. The engine wouldn’t stay running, but his bilge pump worked great. My wife had her chest waders still on and walked out to help them get a little closer to shore where we could load it on the trailer. (there was no dock because this is a PWC launch ramp). Got the boat loaded, couldn’t find any plug, and told him it would be a good idea to also unplug his lights from the trailer before launching. Didn’t catch a fish  yesterday, but still had a hellava good time. done that

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Question:

Joel, you are a man after my own heart.  About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies.   Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real

difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,

sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka

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 Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.

Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka  Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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<Bulk of excellent reply snipped  Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers.  Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? Tight lines, Steve Hering

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I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake.  A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post.  Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future.  Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time.  My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically.  (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet.  It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay.  (And getting that vise for free is cheating!).  If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.).  The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  ….  [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping? Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg

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– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom  Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Initially, I thought that I would save some money.  And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies).  My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high.           I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing.  Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it.  Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly.  The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it.  It makes for some great conversation.   All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson

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Good point.  Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier.  Me too.  Gosh.  I guess I don’t feel so bad now! —                                                            -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!

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Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive.  My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment.  I still have much of it today and still use it.  Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc-

Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

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In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.

You are the man, Ernie!  Do you give classes?

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul

< 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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Question:

Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

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Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

Like you say, this is the road not taken, and you hope to beat a path, so why are you asking for fly patterns?  Why not take some big feathers and fur and tie them on some big hooks and cast them with a big rod and give big twitches like a big dead minnow down deep near a big weedbed where big muskies live.  If you don’t catch anything then you will be learning what doesn’t work, so you try other things until you start catching them. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

.. the problem is with the fonts in netscape … it seems to pick up a wierd font when setting it up.. especially the earlier netscapes. go into the fonts list and find the offending font and get rid of it, netscape then picks another … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – keyboarded:

Question:

I told my wife that I was going fishing today and to have that god damned dinner done when I get home. TimW <g <seriously ….big <g <no kidding….it’s a joke, see… <I said laundry, not dinner… <g

So are you bringing a couple home for dinner? -burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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I told my wife that I was going fishing today and to have that god damned dinner done when I get home. TimW <g <seriously ….big <g <no kidding….it’s a joke, see… <I said laundry, not dinner… <g

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I told my wife that I was going fishing today and to have that god damned dinner done when I get home. TimW

Hi Tim Your name is changing a lot and if you treat your wife as mentioned above you could end up ‘minus’ something special. My friend, do what I did, give her the hug she deserves. By the way, my valentine, Gretchen, say hello. Take care and … — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

I went with the Simms Gore-Tex Micro Fibers.   They’re expensive,  but super comfortable.   I also use them for backpacking with a pair of Tevas.

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I just bought the new Orvis No-Sweat waders and couldn’t be happier.  They are super comfortable and you really don’t sweat.  Very lightweight also, they just fold up and are carried in a little bag that they come with. You can’t beat the guarantee either.  One year and if your waders have a hole for any reason, Orvis will replace them free.  Nobody else offers this.

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Wondering if anyone could shed light on good choices for light weight waders. Mainly backpack in the Sierra’s to fishing holes/streams, so need waders that are very light yet durable. Any ideas on shoes? Thought of Teva sandles but those are heavy. Any info appreciated ! John

Just got Orvis stocking hippers and (so far) they’ve been ok (stay away from Fly Tech or other cheap brands).  I use Nike (or similar brand) Aquasocks which are light weight and very functional. hope this helps;  let me know if you hit agood spot in the Sierras–I go up often and am always looking for new places– aaron

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Wondering if anyone could shed light on good choices for light weight waders. Mainly backpack in the Sierra’s to fishing holes/streams, so need waders that are very light yet durable. Any ideas on shoes? Thought of Teva sandles but those are heavy. Any info appreciated ! John

You might not need any for the small streams.  If you think you do I would William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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After five years of heavy fising I have just retired the lightweight Orvis stocking foot waders.  With some care, ie look out for thorns, branches in the woods, I have gotten a good five years of use.           Also the canvas boots from LLBeans is quite good.  Cheaper than Orvis too.  They cost about $50.  The orvis waders and hippers wore very well.  I am still using the hippers.  Good luck, FHK

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wondering if anyone could shed light on good choices for light weight waders. Mainly backpack in the Sierra’s to fishing holes/streams, so need waders that are very light yet durable. Any ideas on shoes? Thought of Teva sandles but those are heavy. Any info appreciated ! John You might not need any for the small streams.  If you think you do I would William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

William, I am not Bob, am using his browser, he told me to say this because he is embaressed by my question, however,  I am new to this sport. and I want to purchase a good all around pair of waders. What do you recommend.  I see many many different brands.  I don’t want to spend a a lot, but don’t want to get wet either or buy a new pair next year when I learn more.  Your recommendations are appreciated!!!   Thanks Phyllis

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: Wondering if anyone could shed light on good choices for light weight : waders. Mainly backpack in the Sierra’s to fishing holes/streams, so need : waders that are very light yet durable. Red Ball Supplex waders- superlight and tough. And don’t forget a patch kit –mike

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Wondering if anyone could shed light on good choices for light weight waders. Mainly backpack in the Sierra’s to fishing holes/streams, so need waders that are very light yet durable. Any ideas on shoes? Thought of Teva sandles but those are heavy. Any info appreciated ! John

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Question:

You can get this book from Judith Bowman , Pound Ridge Rd.  Bedford, NY   10506       (914) 234-7543 Standard disclaimers blah blah…  – Bruce Conner

Response:

Garrison & Carmichael’s "A master’s guide to bamboo rod building", as far as I know was reprinted for the third time recently (November 1994), and listed for about $60.  It seems to be a popular book, so by now the might really be out of print again.  Try to special order through a bookstore, since they can tell if there are still copies around.
                                   Sincerely,
                                   Kin Chan

I just received the latest catalog from Wilderness Adventures Sporting Books (1-800-925-3339), and they claim they have a few copies of "a master’s guide to building a bamboo rod". They go on to say that the publisher is sold out and Price……so we can all imagine what that means….. Inge

Response:

: I just received the latest catalog from Wilderness Adventures Sporting Books : (1-800-925-3339), and they claim they have a few copies of "a master’s guide to : building a bamboo rod". They go on to say that the publisher is sold out and : Price……so we can all imagine what that means….. : Inge I went by the Philadelphia Orvis store, and they had it, new and boxed for $60.  their #: 215-567-6207

Response:

: I just received the latest catalog from Wilderness Adventures Sporting Books : (1-800-925-3339), and they claim they have a few copies of "a master’s guide to : building a bamboo rod". They go on to say that the publisher is sold out and

: Price……so we can all imagine what that means….. : Inge I went by the Philadelphia Orvis store, and they had it, new and boxed for $60.  their #: 215-567-6207

For any folks out on the West Coast, Western Sport Shop in San Rafael has them in stock, at least a couple in the wraps.  Their ph# 415-456-5454 –Gene is the resident book expert.  They will ship, also.

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Hi folks! I’m new to the newsgroup but have been fly fishing since I was 6. I am looking for a copy of the book, "A Masters Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod". This book is out of print. I suppose it is a "Classic" and therefore hard to find. Any information on fishing the Elk River in Tennessee would be appreciated.– Doug Chapman "Be sure you’re right, then go ahead." Davy Crockett

Response:

Hi folks! I’m new to the newsgroup but have been fly fishing since I was 6. I am looking for a copy of the book, "A Masters Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod". This book is out of print. I suppose it is a "Classic" and therefore hard to find.

It’s back! A Masters Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod (3rd ed., 1994) Everett Garrison & Hoagy Carmichael Meadow Run Press Stone Harbor, NJ it’s $60 US (boxed hardcover) But if you’re at all serious it’s probably worth it. — Blair Sharpe Ottawa, ON, Canada

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Question:

If you are talking about regular woven bodies?  You tie your two flosses in at the bend in the hook and simple tie a series of single over hand knots.  Always tie in the same pattern left over right or right over left and you will wind up with light on top or bottom.  Pick the pattern you want and go with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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<Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? Davy is going to be at the Midwest Fly Show Jan 6,7, and 8th in Westmont, IL 400 E. Ogden Ave.  He will be tying all three days and I am sure he will be more than happy to answer any questions you have in regards to the Polish Woven Nymph.  He did not originate this pattern but he ties them as well or better than the original.  If you want more info on the Midest Fly Show call me @ 1-800-328-9753 or E mail.                                                           Marcos

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:    - a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d    - you need a widish gape hook.    - surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.    - rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed    - wool is good    - Don’t neglect peacock herl    - use wool on size 6 hooks to practice    - leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps      with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN    Wet beatle/nymph –    hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.    thread: black    rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.    underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely    tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.    Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top    the bottom being an orange floss heavy.    Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.    TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with    maintaining the right tension    It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment    and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

Not to drop names, but I will be seeing Davy this weekend and would be pleased to obtain any additional info on this fly. E-Mail me at: am not sure if my net provider has a local #.

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Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication. Any and all help would be appreciated.

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Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I unfortunately can’t identify the publication.

There was an article in a recent issue (either Dec. or Jan.) of Flyfisherman that described a technique for making woven bodied nymphs using two different colors of floss.  The article described some nymphs using a light and dark shade of heavy brown floss.  I had some olive and yellow floss so I tried a few.  I ended up creating some really nice looking green rockworm nymphs The process for creating the body is fairly time consuming when compared to a dubbed body so I assume that has something to do with cost.   I’m not sure if this was actually for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven Caddis but the instructions had a "key" step for starting the weave at the beginning that is supposed to make it easier.  Unfortunately the text had a typo in it.  It had you start with one color of floss in your left hand.  Then is said to put the other color in you left hand and I’m sure that one of those "lefts" was suppose to be a "right" but it was unclear how to figure it out from the rest of the text. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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: Does anyone have tying instructions for Davey Wotton’s Polish Wooven : Caddis patterns? I saw some in a shop the other day for sales. Deadly : looking bugs, but 6 – 8 flys at $24 – ouch! I was told that his pattern : was recently provided in an magazine published in the U.K. I : unfortunately can’t identify the publication. : Any and all help would be appreciated. Well B, it was the Sept/Oct 94 issue of Fly-Fishing and Fly-TYing. They certainly look good and aren’t that difficult to tie once you’ve done a few. The description is quite lengthy but if you can find anything on a SHUTTLE weave it should get you started. Some points I’ve noticed while fiddling with them:         – a correctly proportioned, smoothly tapered underbody is req’d         – you need a widish gape hook.         – surprisingly little lead is req’d – smoothish body sinks well.         – rayon flosses are slippery to use but can be managed         – wool is good         – Don’t neglect peacock herl         – use wool on size 6 hooks to practice         – leave materials in on the spool (don’t cut off lengths) it helps           with handling and tensioning. OB PATTERN         Wet beatle/nymph –         hook: Kamasan B175 Heavy traditional – size 10/12 mash barb.         thread: black         rib: fine copper wire with red tinge.         underbody: fine lead wire to suit application, build up nicely         tapered UB with thread AFTER tying in flosses,herls rib.         Body: woven – 3 peacock herl strands in rope with thread on top         the bottom being an orange floss heavy.         Head: BIG – BLACK and lacquered.         TIP – leave the herl rope and bobbin connected it helps with         maintaining the right tension         It is representative of some beetles we have about at the moment         and is very moorish to the fish (Browns). Have fun steve

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