Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

O.K., I see where the problem lies.  Since the discussion was about salmon born in the river it never occured to me that the browns in question were sea run.  I assumed we were talking about stream resident browns and that the salmon had coloring that matched theirs.  We have browns here that live in Lake Michigan and head up the streams only to spawn.  Having seen a few of these, I understand how one could have trouble distinguishing between them, when fresh from the lake, and salmon.  As a matter of fact, limited as my experience with them is, I’m sure I couldn’t tell them apart. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and they taste muddy. Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes. I once whacked and ate a very nice brookie from the outlet and it certainly seemed ‘muddy’ to me. My biased taste runs to brookies, to me nothing is finer as far as trout go. I dislike landlocks, browns and haven’t had a truely wild or acclimatized rainbow, only the pellet fed stockies that I fished 18 years ago in NH. I much prefer haddock, flounder and swordfish to any trout/salmon, perhaps that’s one of the reasons why I hardly ever keep a fish. I do recall having some smoked salmon in Ireland that was exceptional though. He called them "dirty" salmon. He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :) This made me chuckle. The Root river? Sounds mucky

Rather an apt name considering the focus of this discussion.  The Root is probably the most popular stream in the state for salmon fishing.  As far as I know it also the most productive…..for reasons that are a complete mystery to me.  It is nasty, as is also true of all the streams in the extreme southern Lake Michigan watershed.  Doubtless, they all ran clear 200 years ago when the native prairie plants stabilized the rich silty soil, but all that ended the day the first sodbuster arrived.  Some progress has been made in cleaning them up in the last decade or two but MUCH more needs to be done and it will never happen, land use patterns being what they are here. Some, like the Milwaukee, the Menomonee, and a few of the smaller streams will run fairly clear during extreme low water conditions but they are typically opaque.  Agricultural and urban runoff, industrial pollutants, and sewage combined with an unknowable quantity of point source pollution conspire to make eating anything caught from these waters border on suicidal and yet thousands of people do.  What’s even more perplexing is that there actually IS something to be caught and eaten. Wolfgang

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I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

This has been an interesting discussion for me; and since I was the one who apparently misidentified the fish, even all the more so.   By now, a week later, I’m no longer sure.   It’s my recollection that the fish I caught had the brownish coloring with the distinctive spots of a brown.   Not knowing there were no browns in the river, I had no doubt at the time that is was indeed a brown trout.   Do these small landlocks also have the spots of a brown, or is my memory going to hell? (knowing full well these are mutually exclusive positions.) Joe F.

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I fished the EO last fall and caught a landlocked that very much resembled a brown in coloration. The guide explained that as the fish adapt to the river, their color changes (I guess like the so called "Black" Atlantics). I fished again this June, and all the landlocks were bright silver. HTH In all knowledge, consider the source. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid. Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace. Dave

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 or Gink- reaching Waldo

scott, you misspelt "gink-retching waldo." i’m a loon man…. a happy loonie. –waldo

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Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Fishing for landlocks in the north woods may not seem like paradise to some folks, but it’s close enough for me. Nice TR. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail?

Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns and they taste muddy. He called them "dirty" salmon. Flyfish

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This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail? Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns

But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? and they taste muddy.

Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes. He called them "dirty" salmon.

He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :) Wolfgang

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Fishing for landlocks in the north woods may not seem like paradise to some folks, but it’s close enough for me. Nice TR.

Reminds me.  I have a reference which says that Gull Lake in southwestern Michigan (no secrets here…common knowledge) has landlock salmon in it.  Anybody here ever fished it? Wolfgang

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At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW?

Goddamn RW

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Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake?

Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns. and they taste muddy. Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes.

I once whacked and ate a very nice brookie from the outlet and it certainly seemed ‘muddy’ to me. My biased taste runs to brookies, to me nothing is finer as far as trout go. I dislike landlocks, browns and haven’t had a truely wild or acclimatized rainbow, only the pellet fed stockies that I fished 18 years ago in NH. I much prefer haddock, flounder and swordfish to any trout/salmon, perhaps that’s one of the reasons why I hardly ever keep a fish. I do recall having some smoked salmon in Ireland that was exceptional though. He called them "dirty" salmon. He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :)

This made me chuckle. The Root river? Sounds mucky Wolfgang

Flyfish

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

Caught a few of them on the Rapid – very brown-like but the shape was wrong – Dave explained the difference.  Funny thing, you can catch them in the same water, surrounded by regular landlocks.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Back when I worked for the fly shop,

Did you work at MGFS in Greenville?  Damn fine looking lady in there the days I went in.   SWMBO noticed also. Joe F.

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Enough! Enough! Black Flies be Damned! I want – NEED- to go back! Great TR. By the way, what was the flow rate? There in early june it went from 2900 cfs (almost unfishable) to 1200 cfs by the time we left 4 days later. 1200 is much better for wading. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am often frustrated by my shortage of fishing time; and when an opportunity arises, the stress of impatience can take a lot of fun out of the trip.  So sitting about the cabin in the morning, I planned to take it as leisurely as possible.   The fish would be there when I got there or they wouldn’t; and my determined sloth got me to the river by 2:30 in the afternoon.  Happy kids, happy wife, relaxed daddy. I was heading down to the East Outlet, where the Kennebec is born from the waters of Moosehead Lake.  The river plunges through the dam and immediately becomes a beautiful river, flowing under a steel truss RR bridge, then highway 15, before continuing south through Skowhegan to the ocean.   A dam or two slow the river farther south, and smallies abound, but here below the East Outlet, it flows free through the beautiful, North Woods region and offers big brookies and landlocked salmon. Three other guys were standing around in the parking lot when I arrived, and in a short chat, I found that one of them was a guide, though I’m not sure if the other two were sports.   The guide took them up on the bridge to point out good runs to fish while I rigged up the nice 4 wt. I got from some guy in Germany <g.   The two sports went on upstream, and the guide came back & chatted some more, offering a tip or two on where I should go between the road & the dam.   It’s a big enough river, but I wasn’t keen on sharing the tourist pools with two other fishermen; and thanking him, I headed downriver through the forest. Over dinner in Foxboro a few nights earlier, Dave had shared the location of a deep run a ways downstream; and I managed to see my way through the black flies & mosquitoes to find my way down to the landmark he described. Nice spot.   I’ll fish here.  (In truth, I’d have fished almost anywhere to get out of the woods by then.) Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.   Instead of working on my swap flies, I tied up a dozen or so the day before, and I was ready.   The water level was down from the previous day, but still fast & deep, and a split shot was needed to get the fly to the bottom.   Starting at the tail end of the run, I drifted deep, covering the run, but nary a strike.   Finally snagged & lost the fly, a good time to re-evaluate what you have on.   I knew the GRW was a good fly, so I dropped down a size on both the fly (#16) & tippet (6x) and went back at it, moving upstream a bit. It didn’t take long before I hooked up to a small fish, which to my surprise turned out to be about an 8" brown.  I didn’t know there were browns up that far.   Moving up the run a bit, I was casting into a slick behind a large rock and was soon fast to a definitely larger fish.   15" of silver leapt in front of me, ran briefly out into the river, then allowed himself to be reeled in.  It was seemingly too easy when he took off again downstream. I had a lot of slack water downstream, so, chasing him wasn’t a concern. The thought of him coming off never occurred to me until he did a quick rolling jump and was gone in an instant.  Okay, that was fun. Moving up & out, I set the hook on another nice fish, who showed me his dark back as he leapt vertically to spit me out almost as fast as I hooked him. Hard to say, but probably in the 16" range again.   Short but sweet. Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other. I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. <g See Louie’s submission for the 2000 ROFF fly swap. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg

OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern.

At one of the claves LaPlac gave away a whole set of them in various stages. It was pretty cool (I just saw it, I didn’t win it). — Charlie…

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Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace.

I was going to tie some 18’s but didn’t have the hooks when I sat down at the vise.   For 14’s, I used the larva lace you sent me a while back, but for the 16’s, the larva lace seemed too bulky & I used V-rib.   Never got around to the dubbing versions (couldn’t find the right color in the box, then dinner was ready, etc.) Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid.

This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail? There are numerous references….McClane’s "Encyclopedia" comes readily to mind….which detail the differences among various strains of a given species taken from waters where they have long been established.  From what I’ve seen of such illustrations it seems that some of the differences among and between such strains can be greater than what you’ve described above. Makes me wonder just how closely related the land locked salmon and the brown trout are.  Is this a missed opportunity for the lumpers and splitters to thump on one another? Wolfgang

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OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern.

BTW, while doing some nymph collecting a week or so ago I found green free-swimming caddis larva in my homewater. I had no idea they were there — I’d just assumed that all the caddis larva were of the cased variety, which are numerous. I’m going to have to try some GRWs. I’ve noticed that some fish I keep have stomachs full of what I can only describe as "green goo." I wonder if it’s GRWs? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I am often frustrated by my shortage of fishing time; and when an opportunity arises, the stress of impatience can take a lot of fun out of the trip.  So sitting about the cabin in the morning, I planned to take it as leisurely as possible.   The fish would be there when I got there or they wouldn’t; and my determined sloth got me to the river by 2:30 in the afternoon.  Happy kids, happy wife, relaxed daddy. I was heading down to the East Outlet, where the Kennebec is born from the waters of Moosehead Lake.  The river plunges through the dam and immediately becomes a beautiful river, flowing under a steel truss RR bridge, then highway 15, before continuing south through Skowhegan to the ocean.   A dam or two slow the river farther south, and smallies abound, but here below the East Outlet, it flows free through the beautiful, North Woods region and offers big brookies and landlocked salmon. Three other guys were standing around in the parking lot when I arrived, and in a short chat, I found that one of them was a guide, though I’m not sure if the other two were sports.   The guide took them up on the bridge to point out good runs to fish while I rigged up the nice 4 wt. I got from some guy in Germany <g.   The two sports went on upstream, and the guide came back & chatted some more, offering a tip or two on where I should go between the road & the dam.   It’s a big enough river, but I wasn’t keen on sharing the tourist pools with two other fishermen; and thanking him, I headed downriver through the forest. Over dinner in Foxboro a few nights earlier, Dave had shared the location of a deep run a ways downstream; and I managed to see my way through the black flies & mosquitoes to find my way down to the landmark he described.   Nice spot.   I’ll fish here.  (In truth, I’d have fished almost anywhere to get out of the woods by then.) Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.   Instead of working on my swap flies, I tied up a dozen or so the day before, and I was ready.   The water level was down from the previous day, but still fast & deep, and a split shot was needed to get the fly to the bottom.   Starting at the tail end of the run, I drifted deep, covering the run, but nary a strike.   Finally snagged & lost the fly, a good time to re-evaluate what you have on.   I knew the GRW was a good fly, so I dropped down a size on both the fly (#16) & tippet (6x) and went back at it, moving upstream a bit. It didn’t take long before I hooked up to a small fish, which to my surprise turned out to be about an 8" brown.  I didn’t know there were browns up that far.   Moving up the run a bit, I was casting into a slick behind a large rock and was soon fast to a definitely larger fish.   15" of silver leapt in front of me, ran briefly out into the river, then allowed himself to be reeled in.  It was seemingly too easy when he took off again downstream.   I had a lot of slack water downstream, so, chasing him wasn’t a concern.  The thought of him coming off never occurred to me until he did a quick rolling jump and was gone in an instant.  Okay, that was fun. Moving up & out, I set the hook on another nice fish, who showed me his dark back as he leapt vertically to spit me out almost as fast as I hooked him. Hard to say, but probably in the 16" range again.   Short but sweet. Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

Green rock worm? — Charlie…

Response:

Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid.   Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace.   Dave

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By the way, what was the flow rate? There in early june it went from 2900 cfs (almost unfishable) to 1200 cfs by the time we left 4 days later. 1200 is much better for wading.

I confess I don’t have the numbers.  The guide with whom I chatted mentioned them, but I don’t remember.   I believe it had been over 2,000 the previous day, but was well under that the days I fished there.   All I can say is that the river was very wadeable, and I was able to reach spots in the center that would probably be suicidal at higher flows. Joe F.

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Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW. At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

My guess is green rock worm, but it might be great rice wine, or Gink- reaching Waldo Scott

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Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.  

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. <g See Louie’s submission for the 2000 ROFF fly swap. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg Joe F.

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Question:

Finally hauled the boat down to Manor Lake yesterday, met my partner at 6 AM, and backed down the ramp & started the big motor.  It was its usually cranky self, taking several stalls & restarts to get rumbling.  Backed it off the trailer & then it stalled again…never to restart on this day again .  Oh well, so I dropped the troller & went fishing.  Caught 6 kinds of fish, including my first dozen bass of the season (up to 3#) on 3 & 5" Husky Jerks.  But the motor thing definately put a damper on this beautiful day. The fly wheel spins, though it doies sound alittle rougher than usual.  It was suggested to me that the plugs were probably just fouled, what do you guys think?  Oh yea, when I pulled out (no fun w/o the big engine) & lowered the motor for it to drain, some dark gas (smelled like gas anyway) can out of the prop.  HELP! Warren

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Sounds like bad gas, and you flooded the motor.  may be a bad needle valve in the carb, or junk sticking the valve. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Finally hauled the boat down to Manor Lake yesterday, met my partner at 6 AM, and backed down the ramp & started the big motor.  It was its usually cranky self, taking several stalls & restarts to get rumbling.  Backed it off the trailer & then it stalled again…never to restart on this day again .  Oh well, so I dropped the troller & went fishing.  Caught 6 kinds of fish, including my first dozen bass of the season (up to 3#) on 3 & 5" Husky Jerks.  But the motor thing definately put a damper on this beautiful day. The fly wheel spins, though it doies sound alittle rougher than usual.  It was suggested to me that the plugs were probably just fouled, what do you guys think?  Oh yea, when I pulled out (no fun w/o the big engine) & lowered the motor for it to drain, some dark gas (smelled like gas anyway) can out of the prop.  HELP! Warren

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Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

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Warren it could have been worse…..you could have a mashed up baby finger! Still better than me!!  My water is still hard and closed!   Humph! —                             Steve from Stony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

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After de-winterizing your big motor, why wouldn’t you put on the water muffs and fire that big bad girl up to just to get her juices flowing again and to see if you needed to change those plugs?  Hate it when the engines gives me a hard time at the launch.  But we have all been there at least once in our lives! Hope everything is minor! — Craig

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        Yep….You flooded her out, Warren. And why didn’t you change the plugs!? I put fresh ones in at the start of every season, and keep last years’ (after cleaning and re-gapping, if need be) for spares in the boat at all times….         You can attempt to spray carb cleaner down the throats of the carbs once you DO have it running in your driveway with the water muffs on it, and see if you can clear them out a bit. You may need starting fluid to get her to light off, tho.          Starting fluid is another useful thing to carry, so that if you flood an engine out, you can dry the cylinders out with it, as well as plugs. A squirt in each cylinder, motor it over to blow out the gas/starting fluid, insert fresh plugs (or dried out ones) and fire it up….         When was the last time you did a carb cleaning/overhaul? For optimum performance, I’d recommend one every 3-5 years. All it takes to melt a hole in one of your pistons is to have a bit of debris/gunk in the carb, get it stuck in the main jet, and lean the cylinder out at max power…. been there, done that….. baaaaad craziness.         B3– Robert E. Longshore

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I hear ya, in retrospect I should have….AH!  The hell with it Craig.  I had a stiffy to get out there, and I know you’ve been there! Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After de-winterizing your big motor, why wouldn’t you put on the water muffs and fire that big bad girl up to just to get her juices flowing again and to see if you needed to change those plugs?  Hate it when the engines gives me a hard time at the launch.  But we have all been there at least once in our lives! Hope everything is minor! — Craig

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You’re a good pal Bob, THANKS.  You do realize that it BETTER start when I change those plugs.  My boat’s going into its 4th year, never had the carbs cleaned.  Didn’t know I had to to be honest.  Any recommendations for spark plugs? Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Yep….You flooded her out, Warren. And why didn’t you change the plugs!? I put fresh ones in at the start of every season, and keep last years’ (after cleaning and re-gapping, if need be) for spares in the boat at all times….         You can attempt to spray carb cleaner down the throats of the carbs once you DO have it running in your driveway with the water muffs on it, and see if you can clear them out a bit. You may need starting fluid to get her to light off, tho.          Starting fluid is another useful thing to carry, so that if you flood an engine out, you can dry the cylinders out with it, as well as plugs. A squirt in each cylinder, motor it over to blow out the gas/starting fluid, insert fresh plugs (or dried out ones) and fire it up….         When was the last time you did a carb cleaning/overhaul? For optimum performance, I’d recommend one every 3-5 years. All it takes to melt a hole in one of your pistons is to have a bit of debris/gunk in the carb, get it stuck in the main jet, and lean the cylinder out at max power…. been there, done that….. baaaaad craziness.         B3– Robert E. Longshore

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I knew you guys’d get me smiling… W2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren it could have been worse…..you could have a mashed up baby finger! Still better than me!!  My water is still hard and closed!   Humph! —                             Steve from Stony Sounds like you’ll be riding in the back of my boat Warren…..

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Question:

I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna

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I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna

Jim, There is said to be 4000 miles (and I’m doing my darndest to fish every mile) of trout waters in NC…. it’s kinda like take your pick. Here’s a good informational link run by a fishin’ bud. http://www.wnctrout.com Tight lines, Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Thanks Walt! Jim Barna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may be flying into Asheville, North Carolina and driving to Greeneville, Tennessee, so I would appreciate any suggestions for cold water flyfishing Close to these places. Thanks, Jim Barna Jim, There is said to be 4000 miles (and I’m doing my darndest to fish every mile) of trout waters in NC…. it’s kinda like take your pick. Here’s a good informational link run by a fishin’ bud. http://www.wnctrout.com Tight lines, Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Question:

Speaking of trollbait, looks like you have a little extra time on your hands. I didn’t fire the first shot, posted a simple inquiry about a member of ROFF that was active a few years ago and tried to calm the zoo down.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are gentlemen on ROFF, and occasionally there are dicks, but up to now the booby prize it seems, must go, to be46, we have been trolled by experts, and also completely uninitiated, but not often have we been so trolled, by an ego so inflated. There was a case or two of course, some old Roffians may recall, but these were mostly fly-by-nights, and contributed bugger-all, it will be interesting then to see if this as well is such a case, or if indeed he settles down, behaves himself, and finds his place. One is obliged of course to ask, why forty six? why not forty seven? are there no names? just numbers ? in happy trollers heaven. When one walks into a pub there, does one insult the guests? is this condition treatable ? perhaps to do with overactive testes? Balls are of course important, cojones in fact may be admired, but mostly when directed by intelligence, and not just wildly fired, beware the wrath of ROFF, although the flames of hell are hot, the flames of ROFF are awful things when directed at some snot. The smell is indescribable, and the fumes would choke a horse, so unless you want an awful singeing, then take a different course. What is the point of this charade? why bother with these things? If you wish to be insulting, there are other places you could stretch your wings. Think on Icarus then, who in hubris, flew too high and melted all his wax, your feathers may well fall off too, if you continue with these stupid cracks, and though bald eagles may be noble, bald trollers are just an ugly pain, perhaps you might consider this, before you post a load of crap on here again? We are here to talk on many things, mainly concerning fishing with a fly, and we do not take it kindly when strangers our colleagues here decry, you do not know Wayno, in fact it seems hardly anybody here, so why bother then insulting them? No one will lend an ear. If you wish to post to ROFF, then learn some manners please, an apology indeed would be quite nice, and might some appease, of course if you continue in your quest to raise some Roffian ire, don

Question:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

This class covers entomology, learning to read the water, river and lake methodology, and casting clinic for corrections.  It’s just one of those extra classes not for any degree. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at?

I’m not dead, man. Now where’s that damn Nancy? I coulda sworn she was just here…. – sid

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They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

By the most remarkable coincidence, I was at a TU picnic with Frogspritz, aka Mark Faulkner, a coupla hours ago. As  you may have noticed, he has been too busy loyering lately to be on the net.  So perhaps I may be permitted to respond. All undergraduate students at PSU, except veterans and perhaps a few others, must take a couple of credits in physical education.  I think that’s true of most colleges and universities. Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. To the best of my knowledge, neither a BA, a BS, an MA, an MS, nor a Ph.D. in fly fishing is offered.   I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. vince norris

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Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health.

Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.  If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).  I wonder if anyone is, or will be, teaching next.  Wish my school had that.  Shouldn’t gripe though, I got a credit for spending a long weekend at a beautiful Adirondack lodge on Racquette Lack cross country skiing and hanging by the fireplace with a bunch of girls I hadn’t met yet. Those were the days….. Regards, Jeff

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Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

It’s a _little_ more involved than that. You also have to remember that you’re supposed to be having fun instead of stressing. Seriously, though, we’re fishermen, and therefore opinionated bastards who will turn any question into a holy war. Try to remember that it’s nothing personal. I recommend a real live casting lesson. If you can find a guide who will include one in a day’s guiding, that might be even better. If not, ask at a local fly shop. I tried to teach myself from a video from Orvis, and I’m not entirely happy with that method. As far as gear…for starter gear, I would personally look at St. Croix, Cabelas, or the lower-end Sage rods.  If you can find a local shop that stocks them and doesn’t hard-sell the more expensive stuff, then go there. But remember: fly shops are all too often trying to sell rods, rather than selling you the _right_ rod for your needs. (I knew one exception, in Overland Park, KS. But supposedly there’s a really good one in Loveland, CO, if you’re anywhere near there.) "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

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I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.

That’s right. If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).

 Joe retired ten or so years ago, IIRC. He was succeeded by Vance McCullough, who either retired or just left the faculty to run a bar-restaurant (mostly a student hangout) with his brother. I’ve heard the name of the present instructor, but I don’t recall it. vince norris

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   see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?

Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

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       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

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I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes.

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Nice of you to go the trouble to post that, Willi. Regards, Jeff

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They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this. Mu

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They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

Oregon State has had it for at least the last 8 years.  Never took it oddly enough, saw them out casting to the "grass trout" on sunny days though.      - Ken

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I believe you may have struck a nerve, Vern!  However, I must say you egged this one on. So much for the niceness that Wayne Harrison wrote about. Let the *Games* begin. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

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        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

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Deleted some good advice I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments.

Finding someone to help you will definitely save you alot of trial and error, mostly error. I had been fly fishing on and off for a number of years before I found another fly fisherman to fish with (my family were spin fishermen). I learned the first couple of days fishing with this person than I had learned over several years on my own and through reading. Back to watch the Avs beat the Wings Willi

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 see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.

Nah.  Some alien stole Ken’s keyboard and his body…….OH and chiggers with a fucking ALIEN!!!  Oh man, I DON’T wanna do this anymore!

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       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

LMAO! Man, *that’s* imagery! /daytripper (bringing a rain coat to NC for sure ;^)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Remember, the drummer gets to choke to death on someone else’s vomit! Squiggy

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The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken?

Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

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Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth? Thanks in Advance Dan

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Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

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We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it.

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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I would try checking out your local video store or public library for an "intro to flyfishing" video. There’s alot more than just "back and forth", although you’d never guess it by reading ROFF…

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!         wayno

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Question:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this

happens. You’re right, Mark. In my lexicon, "hip waders" end at a belt around the waist, while "hip boots" (which I gather is the actual topic) end around mid-thigh, and certainly can’t be "belted"… The above perspective may be due to being 6′5" tall: they don’t make "hip boots" that come to *my* hips, that’s for sure ;^) The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not The only time I wear "hip boots" is when launching or reloading my boat – I’d wet-wade before I’d ever use a pair of those for fishing… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave, I’ve been watching this thread and for the most part agree about hip boats if you’re talking bigger water. They ARE no fun to swim in (voice of experience), but you’re not typically in chest deep water if you do go down when wearing hip boots.  Unless you oopsy and find a deep hole because you weren’t probing with your wading staff, or get washed into deep water you can usually get stood up again without too much problem.   But! When fishing very fast and rough water where I’m not quite crazy enough to wade over knee deep, or fishing small and/or well known streams, I much prefer "hip boots".  I can roll them down to get some air to vital parts, and they are much less restrictive (to me).  Scratching is easier too. I guess I’m a wuss, ’cause if I’m wading water that I know has sections over my head, or I don’t know well, I get real nervous about wading in very deep…. War story……. The last time I went down with hip boots the water was only about 30" deep.  I drug a hand to keep my head upstream, was washed into a deeper hole, stood up, and walked out.  That walk might have been a little rushed, since it was November and the water was a bit cool. I wasn’t wearing a pfd since I know the river well and have fished it for thirty years.  It was no big drama, except the walk back to the truck was miserable. If it had been a strange stream, I’d have had a pfd on and floated to the next shallow stretch, or swam to shore.  In my chest waders. Steve

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FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story.

No big deal for Lee…the man walked on water… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

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   About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens…

Well, as apparently "what was left of him" couldn’t answer whether the waders had anything to do with his disappearance, the waders may not actually have been a factor. We lose many swimmers (not wearing waders, obviously) from undertow along the New England coast than that. I’ve swamped in my waders in heavy water (eg: Rapid River, and the Andy below the Gage House pool) and never felt at additional risk from the waders. Wear a friggin’ belt – common sense at work, imho… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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Is this discussion about panic or real danger ? If you fall in with hippers and panic…yer dead.   If you fall in with hippers and stay cool…yer alive. That’s what they tell you anyway…I dunno…. Once at a party a well intentioned but rather inebriated good friend pushed me into the deep end of the private pool.  I had on big hiking boots and levis. (Quite the pool-party-animal that I am….).  I honestly got really scared when I tried to swim but could not, sinking like a rock. On the bottom, I pushed off the bottom enough that I made it to the edge.  I’d have to think that most cases in rivers, streams and lakes, you could essentially do the same thing.  A big dropoff though ?  A man in Boulder reservoir died in hippers just this way a few years back.  Hippers in big water I think is very, very dangerous.  Not from filling with water, but because the boots themselves are more dense. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hmm, hip waders are dangerous, and significantly more so than chest waders. The Lee Wulff stunt was done with neoprene chest waders. Neoprene is lighter than water and will help you float. The problems with hip waders are that they fill very quickly and they open up “parachute style”. More often than not they are made of rubber, which does not float. I have been dragged away by a river both in chest neoprene waders and in rubber hip waders, and the hip waders accident was much much more scary, I thought I would have to slip off them. Hip waders often have a buckle on the side, so you can strap them to your belt. The fist thing I would do when I bougth a new pair of hip waders was to cut the damn thing off, so that, in case of emergency, it would be much easier to slip off them. This was suggested to my by the most experienced fisherman I know and by the owner of the shop I used to go to when I was in Italy. I have heard of enough accidents with hip waders back in Europe to consider them dangerous in large bodies of water.  In small bodies of water, though, they are definitely preferable, as they are much easier to get in and out of, IMHO. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack Michael, I saw a film of Lee Wulff diving off of a bridge with waders and no belt then swimming to shore in order to prove that waders filled with water won’t pull you under. Water weighs nothing in water. I’ve been toying with the idea of trying this out in a swimming pool sometime. My concern with neoprene waders is that they might float your legs too high in the water causing you to fight to keep your head high. Ron

Response:

I see you have some responses from folks talking about chest waders, not hip waders.  The hip boots are not so snug as neoprene and they just go up far enough to make you think you can wade in a shallow stream, then after a few steps about knee deep you step six inches deeper and suddenly have a water parachute strapped onto each leg. Damn right these things can kill you if you’re in heavy water when this happens. I don’t think there is a practical fishing use for these, maybe for landing fish when you are shorefishing but not for wading.  Even waist height waders make a big difference where it counts most because you can belt them. If you use hip waders you should get some lacy garters to go with them.   MarK Vinsel Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

– http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Michael,     About 5 years ago, a visiting fisherman ventured too far out off of Oregon Beach in Cotuit (Cape Cod) and disappeared. If I remember correctly, they found what was left of him a few weeks later. The accident was attributed to his lack of knowledge of the area, which is riddled with deep water holes, and the fact that he could not get out of his waders. It happens… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

Hi Michael I’ve not personally seen a death from hip waders but have over the years helped fly fishers who "went too far" while using hip waders on three occasions. One on the Madison River would have ended in a drown had a friend and I not been handy to pull the guy out of the water. With the full waders I don’t know if I could have pulled him out alone — the current and the full waders made for a very heavy load. I personally think hip waders are and accident waiting to happen but I’m sure there are many who would not agree. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

FYI: I once read somewhere that Lee Wulff jumped off a bridge with waders, head first no less, to prove a point about waders filling with water. I can’t remember if they were hip or chest waders. Maybe someone else has come across this story. B.

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Hello folks, My name is Michael Drapack. I am a journalist for a consumer show on Canadian television. I know this may sound a little strange, but the medical examiner in the province of British Columbia has recently recorded three deaths caused by hip waders filling with water and drowning the person wearing them. Has anybody out there heard of a Thank you and sorry for the intrusion Michael Drapack

This is a regular, tho I’m glad to say, infrequent occurence during the fishing season in Scotland. It is wholly unnecessary because many anglers panic when they "go over the top" and do not know how to react (although sometimes drowning results from a secondary factor like heart attact from the shock as happened on the Spey last year). If you do fall in the procedure is to get on your back, keep your feet well up and pointing downstream (your feet will hit the rocks rather than your head) and paddle with your hands towards the shallow water. The late Hugh Falkus of Cumbria and flyfisher extrordinaire made an excellent video of this when he was about, I think, 70 years old, demonstrating in person. The demonstration was also shown on one the TV angling programmes over here a few years back. Hope this helps – Ian — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

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Question:

We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden          Fishinternet Australia          http://www.fishnet.com.au/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden         Fishinternet Australia         http://www.fishnet.com.au/

I checked your page. It looks good. Can you help me with advice on fly-fishing for Barramundi in the Cairns / Port Douglas area, or even further north into Cape York. I’ve heard this is something of a new frontier in salt water fly fishing and that the Barramunid is excellent quarry. I will be in the area for 2 weeks in September. I’d like to know about seasons, flies, techniques, guides, etc. Thanks. Christopher Payne.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are very pleased to announce the all new, FISHINTERNET AUSTRALIA http://www.fishnet.com.au/ This internet service is dedicated to the Australian recreational fishing scene. Sections cover all aspects of fishing in Australia with excellent information resources, fishing reports from around the country, full directory of all tackle shops, marine dealers, charters, guides, resorts etc. Please let us know what you think of this new service. Regards, David Dryden         Fishinternet Australia         http://www.fishnet.com.au/ I checked your page. It looks good. Can you help me with advice on fly-fishing for Barramundi in the Cairns / Port Douglas area, or even further north into Cape York. I’ve heard this is something of a new frontier in salt water fly fishing and that the Barramunid is excellent quarry. I will be in the area for 2 weeks in September. I’d like to know about seasons, flies, techniques, guides, etc. Thanks. Christopher Payne. Can you assure me of the availability of that nectar of the gods known

as Crown Lager Beer, its to die for. CL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

We are planning a warm weather bonefishing vacation for mid February.  My son and I want to try flyfishing for this great saltwater fish for the first time in a location that will provide good, relaxing beach time for my wife. I  know nothing about the possible seasonable impact on the quality of the fishing.  I am looking for help on where we should plan to go in February (Florida Keys, Bahamas, Carribean, Mexico?).  Please advise.

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You could try any of those locales,but at that time of year, the farther south you go the better your chances for good weather. I’d put my money on Belize, and again the farther south the better. Look into going to Placentia. Even if you have bad weather, you can always go up into the monkey river to fish and there are lots of diversions for non fishing people. The Bones are small but plentiful,and there are Tarpon and you can expect to see LOTS of Permit. If the weather is VERY good you can go out to the reef and catch just about anything. Phil

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I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

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I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November.

I’ve been to Belieze several times. I went there to experiment with bone fishing.  If you need information about bone fishing in Belieze drop me an e-mail.  

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I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge.

We stayed in San Pedro on Ambergris Caye, at the Holiday Hotel (it’s in any Belize travel book.  There are many good guides that will come right to the dock and pick you up.  The hotel proprietor will arange, but you can save a little money by doing it yourself.  Guides we used were Wilbur, Jose and Mario. Yes, believe it or not, the hotel proprietor will probably know who you are talking about by their first name.  email me if you need more info.

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I’ve not got our Belize fishing material up, and it may not be up by November. However, I can suggest a book called The New Key to Belize by Stacy Ritz as a general guide.  There’s a bit of fishing information.  But it’s a superior general guide from Ulysses Press, Box 3440, Berkeley, CA 94703-3440 and worth the $14. I was a field archeologist there in 1959 –British Honduras days — and the fishinw as fabulous.  It’s still quite good both out along the reef and back in the rivers.  I generally take ultralight gear and have a lot of fun with the smaller fish and, in particular the bonefish and snook. Tarpon and bonefish could be super although you might be a bit late for permit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

– ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Question:

Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

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Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

I have made the three – plus hour trip out to Ithaca from Albany a few times to fish for landlocked salmon, brown trout, and rainbow trout in the spring and fall.  Mostly I have stuck to Fall Creek, but I have also fished Salmon Creek which is a short drive from Ithaca.  Fall Creek flows right through Ithaca, and some of the best fishing can be in the large pool at the base of the magnificent waterfall about 1.5 miles upstream from where the creek pours into Cayuga Lake.  For info on what when where why etc. I suggest the book "Good Fishing in Western New York"…I think it is available from Countryman Press. Right now it may be a little early for the rainbows, but browns and salmon may be in.  It’s been a dry fall around here, though, and I haven’t heard anything great about the fishing in the Finger Lakes tribs.  Of course, if you live in the area it’s no big deal to check it out…if you hear anything about the salmon run, please post it.  I am desperate to catch a landlock on my flyrod!!! Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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