Question:

All, I have a stripping guide and a top guide where the inner ring is made of the mineral Agate. I had planned to use these with a split cane blank, but on closer inspection i found the top guide damaged. There’s a small piece missing in the Agate ring. My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today? — Any help appreciated. / Roger Daytime engineer Lifetime flyfisherman If you feel like it, visit http://home.bip.net/angler/ for info on flyfishing in Sweden

Response:

All, I have a stripping guide and a top guide where the inner ring is made of the mineral Agate. My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today?

If You master japanese, http://www.bluedun.net/RodBuilding-Guides.htm   ( http://babelfish.altavista.com/ for translation) http://www.snakeguides.com/ , maybe more comprehensible. Always a start! Stefan

Response:

I get all my rodbuilding stugff from www.AnglersWarehouse.com They definitely have what you want. Be prepared to pay a lot for agates! Pete Collin

Response:

My question is: Do any of you know if there’s a company that manufactures these kind of guides today?

     I know of several sources for the agate stripper guides, but I haven’t seen new agate tiptops around. After reading your post, I went down and looked through my own stash of rod parts, and every agate tiptop I have is cracked and unusable, so unless you’re working on a restoration, you might not want to use one. Agate strippers otoh can last a very long time if properly cared for; they are available at Angler’s Workshop, among other places. I recently spent an afternoon pawing through the parts bins at Rick’s Rods in Denver, and I think they’d have used or nos agate tiptops.

Response:

Question:

Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

You can try these; http://www.mikeladle.com/tackle/tackle3.html http://globalflyfisher.com/global/denmark/species/mullet.html http://www.hartflyfishing.demon.co.uk/mullet_fishing.html TL MC

Response:

I had this strange vision of you casting for Randy Johnson… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

– Jeff, TASCAM Guy:  "Dude, you’re on rec.audio.pro…everyone hates everything."

Response:

Try this http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z2C4323F I caught a mullet back in February and hooked several more but could not land them.  I was using 8 lb tippet.  The one I caught was 5 lbs (2.3 kg) and most of the fish that I saw were about the same size.  I was fishing in heavy surf and the fish were using the waves to their advantage.  The fish I managed to land made 15 runs before I finally dragged it onto shore with the help of a big wave.  It is not typical to catch mullet using any sort of means around this area.  However, on that particular day they were actively chasing a school of smelt.  There are many species of small fish that are called smelt so I am quite sure that smelt that you might be familiar with are not the same fish.  However, mullet is a mullet.  Some mullet species are larger than others but all of them (in the literature that I have seen) are closely related.  Although the smelt were silvery and typically 5 inches long, the mullet definitely seemed to like a small brownish fly.  My friend hooked one on a brown marabou fly but the fish broke off.  He couldn’t hook any more after that and he had no more brown flies.  I kept hooking and losing fish so finally I offered him one of my flies (which was a combination of burnt-orange llama and black & red squirrel tail).  So the color definitely seemed to be the trigger (as both of our flies were tied with similar materials and similar styles).  It may be that this color closely imitates the color of seaweed in this area. Even though the mullet were chasing baitfish, I think that a kelp imitation was able to trigger a response while they were in a mood to actively feed.  Good luck. Mu

Response:

http://anglersnet.co.uk/images/articles/leon24.jpg Just to whet your appetite! TL MC

Response:

Question:

  Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color.  It matches well with our rods.  If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black.

Gary Loomis is gone.  The company is Japanese owned and operated now. Personally, I favor Lamiglas Fly Rods and have for over 30 years.  Of course Gary learned the business from Steve Posey before going on his own.  A little known fact of fly fishing history of Woodland Washington. George

Response:

A few people with the Loomis Adventure fly reel have stated that they would like to see it in black.  I took the bull by the horns and asked Loomis about it directly.  With their permission, here is my question and their response: I have and Adventure reel and find it is the perfect reel for my 4wt Loomis.  Question is, when are you going to make the reel in black.  I like the matte finish of the rods and would like the reel to match. Frank Reid Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color.  It matches well with our rods.  If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black. However, this reel is more expensive. Thanks for using G. Loomis products. Tight lines, Fran Hansen G. Loomis, Inc. 1359 Down River Drive Woodland, Washington 98674 1-800-GLoomis (456-6647) 1-360-225-6516 Not a very good answer, but an answer all the same. Cheers        Frank Reid

Response:

Wow.  A customer service reply straight out of Dilbert (…you do TOO prefer it our way!).  With various manufacturers bending over backwards to provide lifetime warranties and otherwise satisfy the customer, I guess that Loomis’ attitude surprises me.  Based upon posts in the ROFF/Google archives, I looked at this reel when assembling my first outfit, but didn’t like the color.  I guess that’s not going to change.  Thanks for the info. Cheers, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few people with the Loomis Adventure fly reel have stated that they would like to see it in black.  I took the bull by the horns and asked Loomis about it directly.  With their permission, here is my question and their response: Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color.  It matches well with our rods.  If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black.

Response:

Question:

You’re actually going to fish with them. I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

You’re actually going to fish with them.

yup! hell, i can’t tie anywhere as nice as you guys….. hell, they’re meant to catch fish! I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune.

well, your (and others) have gone up in value, as there will soon be one less set on the market. –waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks fro everything Frank!  Draive safely. Op

Response:

<<  "Frank Church"   << I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator   Thank you so much. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

God it’s got to be the first clave ever!!  See Wayno on the right.  Go to www.csse.monsah.edu.au/~steve/clave.jpg

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

Question:

All the other Waynes that hang out around here seem to like it also. Welcome! Big Dale

Response:

I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

  I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !!

Congratulations on the success.  Sorry to hear you have been afflicted with the fly fishing virus.  Once hooked, there is no turning back <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

I just saw "Wayne" and continued to read.  I then realized that it was a new Wayne (and welcome to you).  Unfortunately, this means its time to cull the Wayne’s.  As a matter of fact, when we do, I want a jacket made from one. Yeah, thats right, Wayne’s coating.         Frank "There’s only two of us" Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

Yes, there is a wayne and a wayno….maybe he could be the bounding wayne? john

Response:

I just saw "Wayne" and continued to read.  I then realized that it was a new Wayne (and welcome to you).  Unfortunately, this means its time to cull the Wayne’s.  As a matter of fact, when we do, I want a jacket made from one. Yeah, thats right, Wayne’s coating.

Can’t spell?  Wains.  grin — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Frank "There’s only two of us" Reid I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

Question:

I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks Greg

Response:

Hi Gregory, That is known as tying on a ‘dropper’ fly.  I tie it on above the barb of the first fly, using the clinch knot, about 18" long.  There are other methods of tying on a dropper on the tippet above the terminal fly, but your instructor wanted to keep it simple.  And yes, it is a good idea to use a dropper at times.  Many times when fish won’t hit on top, they’ll go for the dropper.  I fish for bluegill with this method when they get a little sulky in the summer,  and again in the fall when topwater fishing slows down.  Some might call this ‘bobber fishin’, but don’t let that influence you. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

|I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing |the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. |It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the |end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks |Greg

Response:

This is a common technique when fishing wet flies. A fly is tied to the end of the leader as usual and another is tied to what is called a dropper. This is usually made when tying the leader by extending one end of the blood knot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m fairly new to fly fishing. While I was taking a course in fly fishing the guide tied on two flies at once.  I’m trying to remember his technique. It seems that he tied line on the hook on one fly and added another on the end. How do you tie on more than one fly? Is this even a good idea? Thanks Greg

Response:

(good dropper advice snipped ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

Frank, I know you are a smallie fan.  A #4 or #6 hair bug for the surface and a nymph or small streamer as a dropper tied in the manner you described makes a particularly deadly combination for smallmouth.  The fish may take either fly.  This also works on trout on larger waters and is particularly effective in faster water.  In the case of trout use a slightly smaler top bug and a size 14 or 16 nymph. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

You can add an additional fly by simply tying a length of tippet to the eye of the first fly. This is how I was taught on the San Juan. The first fly can be dry attractor ( serves as strike indicator) or other while the lower fly a nymph. Two nymphs regular technique on San Juan, at least for the guide I had. One warning, I am not sure two flies are legal on all waters. You should check before using this technique as ignorance of the rules will not necessarily get you off the hook so to speak. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

Question:

I’ve heard the same thing and don’t get it. I’ve fished the Nissitissit and Squannacook six times and never seen a fish, never seen a fly and never seen anyone catch anything with corn, worms or flies. I bought the TU book ages ago and Kaplan’s Middlesex County Rivers book last year, called the local shops and even changed my local TU chapter to the Squan-A-Tissit hoping to at least see a rising fish. I’ve decided it’s a scam supported by the local outfitters. They’re only an hour from my house but a waste of time when an extra hour will get me to the Deerfield, Farmington or N.H. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I went to fish the Nissitissit this saturday.  I would appreciate any tips people night have.  I have been told that this one of the best trout streams near boston.  But it seemed ‘dead’ to me, still tannic water. I tried the prescott bridge area which seemed in better shape and also the Henry Columbo area.  Does the stream die off in the later summer? How is the fall/winter fishing?

Response:

I’ve heard the same thing and don’t get it. I’ve fished the Nissitissit and Squannacook six times and never seen a fish, never seen a fly and never [snip] While living in Boston, the Niss was a regular stop for me in the fall.  Caught

several large Brownies and saw more than I landed. What takes away from the river is that it warms up badly in the summer, and poaching. Poaching is a major problem in the FFO section.  The last time I was there, in the fall of 95′, a hunter told me that two guys and a can of worms took something like 60 fish out. We have similar problems in W. Pa.  Its a shame, because E. Ma has few opportunities for stream fishing for trout, and the Niss is perhaps one of the best.          good luck,          brad shuster

Response:

Question:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

then what has it become to you ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I hope you eat what you catch!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Burnout? I hope it never happens to me. I plan to fly-fish forever, or untill I can no longer wade successfully. This is not a sport to me anymore. Reeleasy1

Response:

"Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line." I’ve watched you do just this Mark, and wondered when I’d be able to with the same level of calm.  I wouldn’t say I flog in desperation, because I’m quite certain that the next cast will be the one.  But I am in full agreement that if it becomes anything less than joyous, taking in a distant thunderstorm or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine. JE

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

or listening to the breeze through the high grasses will do just fine.

Good point. If the fish aren’t biting, light up a big bomber. — TimW Halfordian Golfer OK, you got me……. JE

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

While I know of a few who have suffered the symptoms you describe I am not one of them; for the problem is: "Flyfishing can’t get out!" Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

I think if I ever get burned out on fishing I will just lay down and go to sleep for there will be no reason to get up. — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Yes, I’ve had that.  That happens when I don’t have the gas money to go!

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

This may help.  After catching a few fish and experiencing that burnt out feeling, cut your hook from the fly and fish hookless.  It will be impossible to bring a fish in, but the challenge will be in the strike.  I often do this this with poppers in salt water fly fishing.  Who cares if the fish is fought and eventually conquered, the challenge is in the deception and the strike.

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

        Yes! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout?

Last year I fished Yellowstone (twice), the Kenai, Oregon, and Idaho.   As I was packing my gear after a pleasant day fishing in Idaho in late October, all of a sudden it hit me that the season was over and that there would be no more fishing.  What surprised me was the feeling of relief.  I guess you could call it a burnout. All that has changed now. <g -AR

Response:

Jeez I wish I fished often enough to even come close to burn out Roger

Response:

Only burnout I’ve had in 50 years of this stuff is too many honey-do’s and not enough fishin’ time.

I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to burn out on Fly Fishing! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

Tony: We need a little more background here… Do you fish every day? How many hours? How long have you been flyfishing? Do you catch a fish (the SPECIFIC fish you’re after) every cast? Do you fish the same water every day? Are your casting/presentation/retreive/playing/releasing skills perfect? Do you work? I’ve been at this for close to 40 years and have never felt even the beginning stages of "burnout".  But then again, this work thing cuts seriously into my fishing time. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Yeah , that’s the way I feel when the fishing is too easy. It becomes routine. I do a lot of saltwater flyfishing and when we run into large schools of stripers or blues and you catch a fish on almost every cast it gets boring. Go figure. –tony

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. I became, and remain to some extent, so very discouraged with the sport that I can empathize completely. I can not stand any of the magazines anymore at all. I’m sick of the overt commercialism and greed.   The rape of Maclean to sell Jeeps disgusts me. C&R Purists make me mad as souless drones. Equipment snobs make me gag. This proclivity for acceptance of crowds while flyfishing is ludicrous. and on and on…. Spinolio is right there, right now…I think. But, I must say that I am getting better.  A fishless but beautiful fall day on my birthday as the leaves and the weather changed, triggered a change in me. Perspective on age and mortality and the beauty in our sport changed that day. I killed and ate a 16 inch brown about a month ago and I remembered that I am a fisherman first and a flyfisherman second.  This is a very important distinction to me.  It pleases me, and I don’t care what anyone else thinks.   This is the most important lesson I have learned. Do what pleases you and you will be happy.   My suggestion is to just plain go fishing for awhile.   Go trolling.  Cast a lure for Pike.  Do something different. Your first Crappie on a worm will put everything back in perspective again and when you pick up that fly rod you will be at peace. Good luck,

other than thumping those you find dislikable this was a nice post Tim. If you’d cut out the 1st paragraph it would have been a truly admirable bit of musing. Keep trying you old blood sucking buzzer! 8^) Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.

I can’t say I’ve experienced burnout but I had a new experience last weekend that may be similar. I was fishing a spring creek that was all "No kill" for the first time. It was typical spring creek fishing. There were 10-30 14-20" fish in each good hole clearly visible. They were rising to a prolific caddis hatch in the smooth pools when the wind died down. They would spook easy but resumed feeding after 10 min. I stalked the holes and tried various nymphs, emergers and caddis imitations with no luck until I went to the tried and true quill wing caddis (brown and grey versions but not black) with a trimmed down wing. Then I was catching them regularly. You would think this would have made me excited but after a number of fish I started to lose interest because it became too easy. The main interest at that point became the difficult lies to cast too. After a while all my grey and brown quill wings were destroyed (not a very robust fly) and it got interesting again to try to get them on something else I had (it worked but with mixed success) that was clearly not their first choice. The catching was great but the fishing could have been better, I suppose. This waning interest may be akin to burnout. I doubt I will go back there much except that it was perfect conditions for my daughter to be able to wade the shallows and net for me so I may try that this summer. Jon

Response:

I see it every year. It might be that people don’t get enough out of just going. Lot’s of people last about 5 years, then they go into Pro Bass or golf. Some guys are busy with their kids in Soccer and will be back in 5 to 10 years. A real "Outdoorsman" will be fishing his entire life. I have several friends that are fishing at 80 plus years. They are in boats now, as wading is to difficult.

Fishing burnout shouldn’t keep one from venturing out to a stream or hiking to a pond.  These are the most beautiful places in the world and there is much more enjoyment to be had than just catching fish.  Burnout and depression is a common thread among many of the posts here lately, and I think that we all need to broaden our horizons to ensure a true enjoyment of the sport.  Why sulk because of no fish when you could take some photos, draw a sketch, hike to a vantage point or identify plants, rocks, birds, and animal tracks. Why flog the water in desperation when just sitting and looking at water brings a satisfaction and peace that will last longer than a trout on a line. mark vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it. –tony

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Has anyone ever suffered from flyfishing burnout? I think I am suffering    from the beginning stages of the disease. I know of a few tarpon fisherman    in the keys who quit fishing for a while because of it.    –tony SURE.  Just quit for a while and recharge.  You will enjoy the sport all the more when you inevitably return. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

Question:

Hi there.. I’m looking in to getting back into fly fishing (I used to do it a bit with my father a long time ago..).  Essentially, I have forgotten all that I was taught.. and I was wondering if anybody had suggestions on how I could best get back into the sport.. or what would be the best strategy for learning about the state of the sport nowadays? Thank you for whatever help you can give me.

     Assuming you live in Central Ontario, Bud Hoffman runs a good fly fishing school on the Beaver River, near Kimberley, Ont.  His number is/was 519 986-2351. Bud is a pretty level-headed guy, and easy to talk to and learn from.  The Izaak Walton Fly fishing Club can be reached at 905 855-5420.  It might help if you post what part of Ontario you fish. Good luck JIM WARD Twin Willow Farm "Home of good horses, fine whiskey and great wild trout"

Response:

Hi I suggest you contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and find out the location of an affiliate club near you. Then join and learn from a new friend. At this time of year many club sponsor fly fishing classes in preparation for the season so you timing is right on. If there is no club near you, ask the FFF about their educational booklet "Introduction to Fly Fishing" It cost $2.00 plus S&H and gives a lot of good info. Other FFF educational booklet that would help are on casting, entomology, and beginning fly tying. Al Hi there.. I’m looking in to getting back into fly fishing (I used to do it a bit with my father a long time ago..).  Essentially, I have forgotten all that I was taught.. and I was wondering if anybody had suggestions on how I could best get back into the sport.. or what would be the best strategy for learning about the state of the sport nowadays? Thank you for whatever help you can give me.

Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Hi there.. I’m looking in to getting back into fly fishing (I used to do it a bit with my father a long time ago..).  Essentially, I have forgotten all that I was taught.. and I was wondering if anybody had suggestions on how I could best get back into the sport.. or what would be the best strategy for learning about the state of the sport nowadays? Thank you for whatever help you can give me.

Response:

Hi there.. I’m looking in to getting back into fly fishing (I used to do it a bit with my father a long time ago..).  Essentially, I have forgotten all that I was taught.. and I was wondering if anybody had suggestions on how I could best get back into the sport.. or what would be the best strategy for learning about the state of the sport nowadays? Thank you for whatever help you can give me.

Hi One of the best ways is to learn from a friend and I think you will find a few of those on this group and the fly tying group as well. Also you might consider joining a local club. I suggest you contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and get the contact person in a local club. Then you can join and learn from a friend. If you have a specific question please post to this group or check my tips and tricks section at my web site. I think the address is in my signature. Good luck and welcome to the best legal drug available; flyfishing. Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I and several others noticed there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could spend on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagellation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)? Few things get my burner going like the guardian of holy secrets of fly   fishing. When I graduated to a Fenwick Eagle rod, Berkly reel and a pair of Redball waders, I braved the Yellowstone.  I didn’t have a clue.  Talk about being intimidated.  Time was precious and I needed to know what and how to fish it.  So I went up to a guy and asked.  He eyeballed me up and down, gave me that "oooooh, what a big spender you are" look, and went back to tying on his fly without a word." Maybe that is the problem, you think there are "holy secrets of flyfishing", a magic grail that is a substitute for personal observation and experience. Maybe the gentleman on the Yellowstone was giving you his "oooooh no, another dude who thinks his time is too precious to do his homework and acquire the necessary skills before coming here" look.

Well, I guess we got each other pegged.  I never went and got my flyfishing Phd.  Hope I never do.

Response:

Charlie,     Do have kids… in their 20s now and they give others space on the stream… Learned fishing manners by age 10 or so.                 Prof. 8x  

Response:

   We all better polish our social skills if we are going to keep, pursuing this wonderful pass time.  I can remember fishing Grand Lake Stream, Slate Run and even the Madison when I was the only person in sight, those days are GONE. I miss them but I’m learning to adapt by:  fishing mostly during the week, fishing water that is difficult to wade and (difficult to boat sometimes) from a specialized water craft, discovering places that have solitude and good fly fishing for different fish (smallmouth bass being my favorite other fish, ounce for ounce fights as good as any trout I’ve ever met.)    And although I’m a loner in many ways I’ve enjoyed interacting with other fisherman as I’ve grown up.  In fact last week and weekend I was on the Halston in Tenn. and it was fairly busy (sulfurs in mid day and all that) and I was impressed with the courtesy and friendship displayed by the east Tenn. folks (Like why don’t you try that 20" brown he’s got me stumped !!)   You had to duck flying hardware on the weekend but the local fly fisherman were very nice. Hats off to them.                                           regards leo

Response:

: Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a : modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of : fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in : letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that : a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream : asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   Well, there you go.  Wanna talk sociology?  Most, not all, good streams are located in rural areas.  In rural areas, it is considered rude to *not* acknowledge the presence of another.  I know this is not true in the urban environment, but it is proper behavior on most streams.  (Unless there are bank to bank fisherfolk, and if that is the case, why are you there?) Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

For every jerk out there who ignores you there are a 100 who are willing to share what they know. Ignore the jerks and keep looking. Bill A.

Response:

: asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   : that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and : inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with :                   :                                     Prof. 8x ‘ Hmmm, no kids, eh, Prof? :^) Charley

Response:

Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the space of others verbally if not physically.   Suggest that a number of you try bowling or perhaps joining a tractor pull fan club as those activities seem more in keeping with your ideas of appropriate streamside conduct.  Comradeship/fellowship involves more that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with the fish when I am in the stream less important that whatever it is you want to interrupt me with?  Do you exhibit the same rudeness to your associates or strangers in the office or at a cocktail party?                                       Prof. 8x

Response:

Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick

Hi, Rick. John Propp?  Nice guy.  I met him at Brown’s a year or two ago.  He said he built rods, but I had no idea he had a shop.  How’d I miss that?  Where is it at? Thanks, -Dick

Response:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I, and judging my most of the other responses, several others notice there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could of spent on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagelation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)?

Response:

[bandwidthectomy] : Now to take on your detractor: : I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living.  They : are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and : socially daunting to most.  I’ll bet they only bought the outlandishly : over priced flies to force you into a few seconds of hopeful conversation. Well put.  I can’t agree with Mike on this one, although it marks a first.  Guiding, like ffishing, is a career (or hobby) that should be built over years.  The good guide is always guiding and eventually he or she will be paid well for it.  And besides, you don’t just hang a sign up and declare yourself a guide worth hiring.  A bit like consulting…I had to give away a lot of free advice before anyone thought it worth paying for.  Same with teaching.  Should I simply ignore the poor students and focus on the ones I figure will succeed?  Many do, but I think not.  And for what it is worth, I think this is a good discussion.  I don’t want to wallow in sexist BS here, but I love a good sports shop.  Hang out and talk fishing with the guys.  Why does it matter what car one drives (to the shop, that is…I still say it is a goofball that drives a $30K car down a dusty, broken road and parks next to a stream.) : Yakima or the Silver Bow in Spokane.   Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

I have been looking for a good dependable fly-shop; however, I   have been warned against Kaufmans, as they were described as   being too uptight and impersonal. Not everybody. Talk to Rod. Steer clear of john hazen. he’s a wealth of information, but only willing to talk to big spenders or people who impress him that they know what they’re doing already. (I’ve fooled him a Sean Williams Student, Teacher, Angler Portland, Ore., USA

Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

Response:

Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  

You’re right. Apologies to john hazen You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".

Well, yes and no. I agree that "big spenders" is perjoritive, but I can think of several situations when a buyer will be laying out big bucks on a new system, or people going on one of the travel packages will be in the store. Often, this is someone new to fishing, who wants (deserves?) special attention to accompany the large purchase. At those times, I can forget about receiving any service. And maybe rightly so. However, although my criticisms might have been unfair or harsh, they are not far from the truth.  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

Now its your turn to be a bit more charitable.  My statements were intended for a new angler who needs advice from professionals like those at Kaufmann’s. I think unfair to call their shop staff snobbish, because I don’t think it is, even john hazel.  On the other hand, I have seen people get the short end of the stick while in there. John and the others aren’t there by accident