Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

There is an excellent fly-tying course at http://www.flyanglersonline.com TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are sub-par….but you have to have decided you want to tie and be getting ‘into’ it before you have the knowledge that the things ‘are’ sub par. there are different grades of kits, and you usually get a vidoe or book or two to help you get started….. To a person who knows they want to tie…..piecemeal…..to the curious or don’t forget the local groups like the one you missed…..there are usually more than just Trout Unlimited….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey. If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie. gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

If it is a full coat of a reasonable ( light) colour, consider cutting it up and dyeing it. Mink makes excellent dubbing, and the guard hairs ( these are the longer hairs )  may be used for hair-wings etc.  Cut into strips they make excellent zonker patterns etc. It might however be a good idea to try selling the coat as it is, you may find that the proceeds will keep you in fly-dressing materials for a long time. By the way, mink skins are cheap and easy to come by, any furrier will give you a bundle of them for next to nothing, mink coats seldom are ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC

I printed your tool list and will take it shopping.  Makes sense to buy the correct amount of the right material.  Now I have to decide what to do with this full length mink coat.  I have had it for years and my new bride doesn’t want it.  She has already released it for tying material.  Maybe eel or leach patterns with mink strips?  Maybe I can make up a couple of mink reel pouches! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Decide what you want to tie, look up the materials necessary. Buy these. Buy a Thompson pro vice, a good pair of scissors, a ceramic bobbin holder and a pair of medium hackle pliers.  A needle glued into a piece of dowel with epoxy, makes a good dubbing needle, and is also used for applying varnish ( head cement) to flies.  Start with simple flies. There are some very good kits on the market, but these are invariably quite expensive, and will contain stuff you do not need. Also the amount of certain materials is usually less than you need for a couple of dozen flies. Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

The Art of Fly Tying CD-ROM is only $20 these days (www.feather-craft.com).  You don’t need a kit.  Thompson Pro is a good beginner’s vise and will last a long time.  Many experienced tiers still use theirs.  You have fished for a year now so should have a good idea of what flies you commonly use.  Buy the materials you need for those flies and you will be in good shape.  Start with simple flies like wooly buggers or hare’s ear nymphs.  Do you trust the guys at the local fly shop?  They should be able to get you pointed in the right direction. Mu Mu

Response:

 Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name.

Cabela’s has them, as well as most fly shops. — Charlie…

Response:

Oh BTW I’ve found it very handy to also have a pair with a serrated edged for tougher stuff.  Mine are cheaper than my "fine" ones and work fine. YMMV — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.

Joe, I’m getting lots of good advice here and am leaning toward buying a kit just because I really don’t have anyplace closeby to buy it peice by peice and I can order one from somewhere like Orvis or Cabela’s. What would you consider to be a good kit and not a "cheapo" kit? I also really like the idea of the CD and am going to see if I can find it somewhere. Tim

Response:

At least one pair of fine top quality scissors is more or  less essential for fine work on the flies themselves.  For everything else normal scissors will do. Keep your fine scissors only for fine work, and do not cut any rough materials or wire with them, and they will last a long time. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have a couple pair of Wiss scissors, a larger one I use for sewing projects and a small one I’ve used for fly tying for many years.  Very high quality at a reasonable price.

Response:

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

You find those at medical supply/pharmacy houses, fly tying material shops, hardware stores, or fabric shops?  Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

A pharmaceutical fly shop?…..bet he’s got leaves from bushes to chew on to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F. I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

Response:

We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job?

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself. Regards, Jeff

Response:

….What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there…..

I have no idea of what is offered with kits Wayne, and I suppose that there is a wide variety of types and quality sold in fly shops.  What really matters is that they have fine points, are well made of quality material, and that they fit your fingers.  The most convenient place to look for scissors that will meet these criteria is a fabric shop.  Sewers use a variety of scissors and they come in all sizes.  If you’re looking for something more specialized, your local veterinarian or a friend who works at a hospital can turn you on to a bewildering array.

Response:

Tim,      I have recently taught myself to tie.  I bought a kit, and I’m not upset that I did.  It gave me a vise, scissors, bobbin, threader, hooks and some materials.  Granted, this stuff isn’t the greatest quality but it got me started.  The next thing I did was purchase a book by Skip Morris, Fly Tying made Clear and Simple.  This book is great.  It can teach anyone to tie.  Now that I am better I am ready to upgrade my vise, but the one from the kit has done just fine.  When you catch your first fish on a fly you tied yourself, it is all worth it! I highly recommend the Skip Morris book, it has very thorough step by step instructions and great pictures for each step.  It is also spiral bound, so that it stays open easily.  What I did was bought the book, picked the first few patterns, went to my fly shop and bought the things I needed to tie those. Came home and worked on those few patterns, when I got them down, I  went on to the next few patterns, went to the shop for the materials  etc…That way I didn’t have to drop hundreds of dollars at once.  I have really enjoyed it and am sure you will too. Have fun with your new hobby, J. Day

Response:

My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

I received a Christmas gift last year of a computer CD "The Art of Fly Tying" that has a lot of video clips and audio instruction on various techniques.   It’s actually pretty cool.   I’m a beginner myself, and I did take a short course from a local shop the year before, but I thought the CD showed a lot of the same stuff (more, actually) just as well, and in some cases better (close up shots).   There is no substitute for in-person instruction for feedback, evaluation, and troubleshooting; but if you have no other option, I’d recommend the CD. Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.   My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

Response:

I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are (snip)

Due to a happy turn of events my wife and I have recently begun to look at fly tying.  We will be picking up some basic beginner books and canvassing some local tiers for "hands on" assistance.  At least one local fly shop offers "custom kits" made to suit your skill level and the type of fly you wish to tie.  They even offer "specialty kits" to tie specific flys.  I think we will read and watch and try a few basic flys.  This winter we will attend one of the many fly tieing classes being offered. We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Tim, I bought a kit when I first started to learn to tie, that was a mistake. Go down to your local shop and buy a vice, scissors, and a bobbin. You can add to your tools as you see fit. Then ask the guy behind the counter what materials you need to tie the types of flies that you use most, and buy the materials to tie them. Also ask him to recommend a book. I taught myself how to tie and while I’m not the greatest, I do catch fish (occasionally) on my flies. When you buy a kit, you get materials that you may never use. I still have some stuff from my kit and I’ve been tying for about 8 years now. HTH, Darin

Response:

There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey.  If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

My uncle gave me his 1950 Herters fly set-up a couple a years ago.  I have been learnin’ ever since.  But a starter kit, a few books on the subject, and just start tryin’. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

Question:

If anyone in this group has fly fished on a trip to South America, New Zealand, or Australia and has any good fishing photographs from that trip, I would be very grateful if you would be willing to share them with me by sending them via email so I can use them on a web site that I am creating. Thank you very much, Bruce

Response:

Bruce, I’ve got tons of pics from various fishing trips to South Amercia……uh….are you gonna have like some kind of ‘adult check’ on the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone in this group has fly fished on a trip to South America, New Zealand, or Australia and has any good fishing photographs from that trip, I would be very grateful if you would be willing to share them with me by sending them via email so I can use them on a web site that I am creating. Thank you very much, Bruce

Response:

John, I don’t really know what you mean by an "adult check" for my site.  It’s not going to be some kind of porn thing, if that’s what you mean.  It’s just a fishing and hunting web site I’m creating, that will link to various other fishing and hunting web sites around the world. If you have some good fishing photos from South America and you don’t mind me using them, I’d love to see them.  I’ve heard the fishing is great there and the scenery is beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Bruce Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bruce, I’ve got tons of pics from various fishing trips to South Amercia……uh….are you gonna have like some kind of ‘adult check’ on the

Response:

Question:

Keith,    Try the Leader Link, much better than loops and just as easy.  No splashy presentations, no moss hang up and no drag.  You should use a figure 8 knot to attach it because of you are using a 4 wt. line. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Response:

If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Response:

If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Keith, I recently started using the braided loop made by Cortland.  I see no difference in my presentation….it’s always terrible! Tim

Response:

I tried using these for a while and found it more difficult to cast.  I used them with sink tips and it really changed how I attempted to cast.  When I switched to floating line, the loops seemed to get caught in my guides more often then a nail knot ever did.  I still use them for my sink tips but I gave up on them for a floating line. Rooster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation?

Response:

Question:

I am driving from Boise ID. to Hamilton, then Butte, MT and then back to Boise in September.  I am looking for suggestions for fly fishing spots that are reasonably accessible, yet have decent action. I will be stopping in Stanley and Salmon. Thanks in advance. Mark.

Response:

I am driving from Boise ID. to Hamilton, then Butte, MT and then back to Boise in September.  I am looking for suggestions for fly fishing spots that are reasonably accessible, yet have decent action. I will be stopping in Stanley and Salmon. Thanks in advance. Mark.

If you are at all into Still water, try Henry’s lake in eastern Id. BIG Trout this year, and Sep. is when the moss goes down.

Response:

If you drive the Skalkaho road from Hamilton,  you will cross the Rock Creek Drainage and pass by Georgetown Lake.  Both should be very good in September (weather pemitting).  The Big Hole is usually good in fall also.

Response:

Question:

Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him.   I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Response:

I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.

  I limit the use of strike indicators for those times of day when I would otherwise be unable to see my leader, so I guess i’m as unethical as Dave. Anybody who uses anything to aid his visual capacity must be unethical; I demand that all of you unethical polaroid user/abusers turn yourselves in at once.                                     Charlie

Response:

William Loehman writes:

<<…..However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. A couple of great posts, especially the above.  I learned to fly fish in the 40s from my mom and dad, on the Deerfield, the Westfield, and the Farmington rivers.  We did not have most of the "neat" things available to fly fishermen today.  We didn’t have zingers  or nippers.   And, we didn’t have strike indicators OR Gink.  The flames I have seen on ROFF must come in jest, because if you approve of one innovation (Gink for instance) but disapprove of another (strike indicators, for instance), then you are surely a hypocrite of the first order.   I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.  It was as if a was a boy in the 40s, fishing a wet fly!   I also sometimes use the things when fishing a dry, for I find it difficult to see my #16 caddis in fast water.  However, they do affect the drift in a negative way.  Orvis’ Quick Site orange butt leaders are also helpful for me to see the fly. Fly fishing has always been a visceral thing with me (and probably with most other folk also!).  And, it has always been a solitary venture.  You may "go" with a fishing buddy or two, but once you make your first cast, you are "alone".  If I need something to help me continue fly fishing (strike indicators), I will use it and I could shive a git what some narrow-minded bigoted people think of it.   And if you come upon me on a stream and call me "lazy" or "ignorant" or "stupid", well, you will be in a helluva lot of trouble. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him. I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Somebody finally said "it all" about our sport. Congratulations Willi, you’ve really got a handle on it. Jim

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I’m neither a red neck nor a yuppie, but somewhere in between. I didn’t get started in all this by some movie. I learned long ago on a river in my youth, the hard way. Many fish outings and many lessons over those early years. Today the upstarts buy a ticket at the window and get on the ride. Instantly you have a "Fly fisherman in a can." In gulp they take it all in without ever getting the true taste. They seem to acquire and possess the knowledge of several life times and doing it at hyper speed. Has Fly Fishing become a pastime that resembles a brothel in comparison? I guess most of us want the real genuine thing regardless of the amount of effort that we put forth. For some, the need is so great for success that the real elementary lessons are never really encountered. Today you can have any thing you want as long as you can pay for it. To hell with it if you have to earn it. Another example is that you can buy your way to the summit of Mt. Everest without ever having to work or earn a place on a real team. Somewhere the "Art Form of Fly Fishing" was taken over by the Science form. What does that mean? Every element has been reduced to the science matter of increasing the catch. Why, and to what end do we need the numbers? Our children have petting Zoos, do we need them too? For a number of years I was away from fly fishing, spending my time climbing and sailing. There you had to be a participant and be real to get from one place the next. You had to perform on your own merits and deficiencies and overcome your short comings. Yes, the real art form comes from within. But the science has reduced Fly Fishing to an action vs. reaction, to an event to a counter-event and so on. All the elements have been broken down to their parts to be studied and be reproduced. Blindness comes in many forms. I choose not to be one of the ones looking over the elephant. What George speaks of is the art form and trying to maintain some semblance of the true heritage. Some places are just not mente to be fished. Sort of like peeing on hallow ground. Could the heritage of fly fishing be lost in only one generation? The old-timers while not gods do have much to offer. Do we set them aside, all for the achievements for scientific end? I would rather learn form an old-timer than take the shortcut route via the scientific method. But as time moves on, new meets old and a blending occurs. Hopefully without the distortion of where we came from and adding a price tag to it. My ten year-old son summed it up the other day, "Dad, you know this is the best Sunday school that you take me to." He sees the true art form for what it is and the meaning of being skunked. He will spend more time watching and asking questions than actually fishing. He will keep a fish and throw some back for next time. He hates truck trout and the ones scared by others. We have more to learn from them than is truly realized. But is the evil metastasis occurring before our very eyes? For me its the real thing or sometimes a little hair on the palms. The store bought knowledge you can get it at the edge of most towns in Nevada. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP. Evil flames $1,000.00 per mailing.

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Question:

I am taking a rafting trip on july 2nd and hope the water isn’t too high to enjoy all the good tips I have recieved! Does anybody know what dry’s are coming off this time of year? –rv

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I am taking a rafting trip on july 2nd and hope the water isn’t too high to enjoy all the good tips I have recieved! Does anybody know what dry’s are coming off this time of year? –rv

  I can’t answer specifically, but #8 and 10 elk hair caddis and #10 and 12 Royal Wulffs worked well for us in mid-August several years ago.  I would have liked to have had some large grasshoppers as well.  The biggest problems were keeping flies afloat and keeping them in sight.  The cutthroat wern’t very choosy.   I just put up a web note that I wrote some time ago describing our trip in 1990 that you might find useful.  It’s linked from http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/tours/tours.html#fishing — Lloyd R. Fortney ….. http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney physics, research, teaching, photography, flower gardening, travel, and fly fishing

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Question:

May be ordered from Blu Ribbon Flies in W. Yellowstone.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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You can find it here and there. Check with Donegals and Castle Arms. Also, Hunters sells some silk floss. I use guderbrod’s (sp) silk. It’s inexpesive ($2-2.5 per spool) and does the job just fine. Charles (Chuck) Abbott      The MITRE Corporation "There is not a single blackfly in the Adirondacks. All are married and have large families." Henry Wells

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Dave Hughes mentions this as the best body material for soft hackles.  Does anyone know a mail order source for this rare stuff?

National Feather-Craft in St. Louis carries the silk in a variety of colors and is a large mail order house so it is easy to have them ship to you. For soft hackle flies you most likely want the silk thread (Gosmer) as opposed to the silk floss (stout). You can reach National Feather-Craft at 800-659-1707.

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 I’m trying to tie size 20-26 midge drys. I can’t find hackle any smaller than 20 on even the most primium grade necks. I am now using darlone and other synthetic materials. What does everyone else use? Also I’d like help in how to tie the synthetics to look like a palmered hackle. I always get something that looks like an elk caddis and not a hackle that goes completely around the fly.

I have the same problem.  I have heard that using half a "normal" hackle in a dubbing loop has the right effect in that it alows you to choose the hackle length, but to date I haven’t tried it.  I can see it being tough to get all the hackle fibres to lie in the same direction doing this however. If you try it, let me know how you get on Russ ps have you tried Darrel Martin’s "Micropatterns" book for ideas ?

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Hoffman. Although, I understand your dilema. It’s ver difficult to size hackle on these small ones.

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Hey, if there is anyone out there who loves to fly fish and has the time to chat a little bit with me about fly fishing, PLEASE send me an E-mail. I am senior at the University of Oregon who started to fly fish last Spring. Fly fishing in my number one priority in life right now and I want to be out there in the rivers as much as I can when the season starts. I really don’t know that many people that fly fish around here so it is kind of frustrating not to have anyone to talk with about flies, rods, fish etc. Thanks, Marcelo

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 I’m trying to tie size 20-26 midge drys. I can’t find hackle any smaller than 20 on even the most primium grade necks. I am now using darlone and other synthetic materials. What does everyone else use? Also I’d like help in how to tie the synthetics to look like a palmered hackle. I always get something that looks like an elk caddis and not a hackle that goes completely around the fly.

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Also I’d like help in how to tie the synthetics to look like a palmered hackle. I always get something that looks like an elk caddis and not a hackle that goes completely around the fly.

You could try a dubbing loop, but on a size 26 fly, that might not be practical. Try ostrich herl. Have you tried CDC? Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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Dave Hughes talks a lot about using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk thread for tying wets, especially soft hackles.  Does anyone know a mail order source for this stuff? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "To protect your rivers, protect your mountains"       Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 B.C.

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Actually it has nothing to do with fishing…it refers to the thin thread of sanity that kept Jim Pearsall attached to this earth.

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I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

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I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November.

I’ve been to Belieze several times. I went there to experiment with bone fishing.  If you need information about bone fishing in Belieze drop me an e-mail.  

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I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge.

We stayed in San Pedro on Ambergris Caye, at the Holiday Hotel (it’s in any Belize travel book.  There are many good guides that will come right to the dock and pick you up.  The hotel proprietor will arange, but you can save a little money by doing it yourself.  Guides we used were Wilbur, Jose and Mario. Yes, believe it or not, the hotel proprietor will probably know who you are talking about by their first name.  email me if you need more info.

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I’ve not got our Belize fishing material up, and it may not be up by November. However, I can suggest a book called The New Key to Belize by Stacy Ritz as a general guide.  There’s a bit of fishing information.  But it’s a superior general guide from Ulysses Press, Box 3440, Berkeley, CA 94703-3440 and worth the $14. I was a field archeologist there in 1959 –British Honduras days — and the fishinw as fabulous.  It’s still quite good both out along the reef and back in the rivers.  I generally take ultralight gear and have a lot of fun with the smaller fish and, in particular the bonefish and snook. Tarpon and bonefish could be super although you might be a bit late for permit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a trip to Belieze in mid November. I know i’ve seen some posts in this group regarding Belieze fishing.  My plan is to head down there with a fishing buddy of mine.  I would like to hear of any suggestions as to where to stay and costs involved. I would be most interrested in staying at a low key low cost, inn or resort, not at a fishing only lodge. I’d be interrested to see if anyone else has had luck finding guides who would be willing to take us out for a day.  How much do they charge and how do I find one. Any other info that you feel would help, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Dave Blizard — Dave Blizard "Pork, the other white meat."

– ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Smallies are excellent fly-rod fare; they will add a whole new dimension to the trout angler’s experience. Fish them with large nymphs (out east we rely heavily on the hellgrammite, which is an early stage of the Dobson fly), crayfish imitations, or minnow imitations.  Woolly buggers are a good starting point.  Don’t go down to too fine a tippet; they aren’t as discriminating (usually) as trout. They’ll hit surface lures; they basically behave like a cross between a trout (for current relationships) and a bass (striking and fighting characteristics.) Reply to report on your success! DM

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Smallies are excellent fly-rod fare; they will add a whole new dimension to the trout angler’s experience. Fish them with large nymphs (out east we rely heavily on the hellgrammite, which is an early stage of the Dobson fly), crayfish imitations, or minnow imitations.  Woolly buggers are a good starting point.  Don’t go down to too fine a tippet; they aren’t as discriminating (usually) as trout. They’ll hit surface lures; they basically behave like a cross between a trout (for current relationships) and a bass (striking and fighting characteristics.) Reply to report on your success! DM

Two points:         1.  Fish deep for the big ones.  Right along the bottom with weighted flys.  Dead drift accomplishes this best.  Even streamers need to be down on the bottom, I’ve found.         2.  Check with the locals about colors.  Surpising to me was that black works best in some rivers and not at all on others. Compare the Shenadoah with the Potomac, for instance. I’ve quit fishing for trout (even tho I always found it an exciting sport) except during the winter when the smallmouth bass go silent. No matter how big the trout or what species, I’ve never had a trout fight as hard or jump as high as a smallmouth of equivalent size.  It’s a real blast. Get the book "Flyfishing for Smallmouth Bass" by Harry Murray of Edinburg, VA for all the neat tricks.   Have fun.   Jim

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Respecting Harry’s book and school and school of thought:  Excellent work and useful, but some variations I have found successful: 1.  HM mainly works the ‘Doah branches.  Even the largest, the South Fork, is fairly small water compared to the Potomac, James, New, Susquehanna, etc.  Often, small or large water is irrelevant since habitat is "micro", that is, unaffected by the size of the river.  At times, however, the total size issue is critical.  The Shenandoah has a very great density of smaller fish; this leads to different patterns.  Also, in a system dominated by large numbers of smaller fish, the effectiveness of nymph and crawdad patterns changes.  Larger fish will key on larger prey, and hellgrammites just don’t get that big.    Also, bigger water has heavier flow, negating some bottom-relating techniques Harry uses with great success unless you are willing to use heavier gear. 2.  In a boat, Harry’s lighter tackle/lighter tippet (than I prefer) techniques are less practical.  I rarely go below 1x or 6lb or so tippet, often staying up around 12 lb, especially in fluorocarbons.  I have noticed no reduction in fish size or numbers, and I am able to deliver larger flies and weighted flies with ease. 3.   A drifted, rather than a stripped, delivery is less practical for our purposes on the Potomac.  In bigger water, in a boat, with a larger fly, I usually wind up encouraging my clients to fish far and fast, though this may offend the purist.  When we wade fish away from the boat, a more thorough and deliberate approach is possible, but on a nine-mile float we have some water to cover. 4.  The Susquehanna and New rivers, which are very large both in flow rate and depth variation, often require an even more pronounced departure from the standard techniques as espoused by Harry.  My best fish on both rivers came on large flies (4"+) perhaps more suitable for the salt.  Fewer hits, of course, but serious quality fish and the possibility of an appearance by the next species up the food chain (genus Esox) is possible. 5.   We’re also talking about a heavier line here.  7 weight is standard, and up to a 9 is my first choice.  That way there is no compromise on distance and power.   I have great respect for Harry’s way, and it is always the starting point, but be aware that there are some further techniques to try. Dave

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Question:

I’ll be teaching at Hollins College in Roanoke for the spring semester, February-May, and wonder if I should bring my gear with me…I know nothing about the nearby fishing, though I’ve fished some of the eastern streams.

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I spend some time down in the Blacksburg area (Va Tech grad) and I’d like to hear about fly fishing opportunities in SW VA.  So if you find out anything, let me know!   Thanks

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South fork of the HOlston river.  Opposite the hatchery for about 200 yards up and downstream.  incredibly huge trout.  average is around 4 pounds.  tough turf.  go small and pray for rain.  two weeks ago i landed a 23" rainbow.  no joke.  Bob Crawshaw  Flyfishing Virginia, L.L.C.   804-467-6668

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