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East Coast Fly Fishing Symposium

Question:

Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m.  (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you).  Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930.  First time on the NJ Turnpike.  If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder.  Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie).  I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand.  We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more.  Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!?  If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South.  $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes.  I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool!   Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Thanks! "Eugene Cottrell" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South.  $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes.  I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

Response:

Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!?

(Un)fortunately, I get to play host for Thanksgiving this year so I have to rearrange the house to get a dining room back.  Also got signed up for a software project on Friday, so my schedule is way too tight.  I really wanted to go this year. Did you by any chance get to see Marla Blair tying?  She usually shares a table with Dick Talleur and I know they were traveling down together.  She ties some amazing (unfishable) realistic grasshoppers and crickets. –Stan (I *will* be at the Somerset flyfishing show in January)

Response:

Stan,   I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her.  Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter??                                Tom

Response:

I would LOVE to have made it up to this event!  Couldn’t get away this time around though. :-( Right now I’m in pretty good shape in all departments except hooks and a tyer can NEVER have enough chicken feathers!  What I missed most was the techniques to be learned from the real experts.  I have an interest in the Catskill style and would really like to improve myself in that area. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m.  (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you).  Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930.  First time on the NJ Turnpike.  If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder.  Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie).  I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand.  We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more.  Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!? If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Stan,   I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her.  Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter??                                Tom

The Danbury show is January 3-5.  I’ve never been to that one, but it’s pretty close by and I know a couple of people I could talk into going.  All they have listed on their site is a bunch of tying classes (and a rod building class).  What else do you know about that show? We already have a room booked for the Somerset show in January – I think at the Holiday Inn (better bar than the DoubleTree).  I love that show.

Response:

Howdy All     Would have liked to have made the show myself but with the recent rains i am behind on my yard cleanings with snow a possibility this week had to get as much done as we could this weekend. Maybe in Jan. who knows the weather will dictate that also.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening.

The lion fish fly pic is on a.b.p.f. Frank

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Line » A 45 year old mystery.

A 45 year old mystery.

Question:

I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you.

Agreed.  I think the only way to settle this for sure is to find someone familiar with this particular hatch on that body of water. Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly."

H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug.  Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata. Wolfgang

Response:

JAFB, Wolfie — TBone

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug.  Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata.

I think you may have that backwards in that I think you’ll find that Recurvata is larger than Limbata, but only just.  In any case, they are close enough in size that it doesn’t really matter – if one is much too large, the other will be as well.  If they are too large, then color really doesn’t matter, but I’ve seen references that indicate both can range in color.  Based on the information that Recurvata/Limbata is much too large, I’d try to get a look at Epeorus.  Here’s a link I found: http://www.mayfly.com/articles/WW7.html by Al Caucci and I’ve also emailed you a copy of the "suspect." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang

Response:

rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake),

was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer!                       Tom

Response:

rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer!                      Tom

Ah…thanks.  I guess then I ought to add that everything I’ve indicated in this thread may be equally outdated.  I’m almost afraid to ask, but…any idea why? TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg That looks a lot more like what I remember.  There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown.  On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range.  Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger.

What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")?  If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search.  If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember.  I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double  wings…" TC, R

Response:

I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2.

Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata.  While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia.   Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

      I’ve found all kinds of good entomological sites on the web, but all   fall short of what would be ideal for this situation.  For example, I   found a site that has range maps for all known mayfly species within the   state of Wisconsin (a USGS site, of all the odd places) but as   interesting, and doubtless valuable, this information is, it’s pretty   much useless without cross referenced information regarding appearance,   habitat, and habit of the target species. Although the Web has a vast amount of information, it is often difficult or even impossible to find the specific information that you want. I would like to see the studies done at public Universities made available on the Internet. Because the data would need to be inputted, it would be costly and difficult for older studies, but virtually all current research is composed on a computer and making them available to the public wouldn’t be a monumental task. This access could be a condition for any researchers getting public funding for their research.     Consulting an entomologist has occurred to me, but this is neither as   easy nor necessarily as promising as it might sound.  First, one would   necessarily have to find an aquatic entomologist (or at least one with a   specific interest in aquatic species…..a fly fisher perhaps).  I know   of a good aquatic entomologist at UW, Stevens Point but he happens to   specialize in plecoptera and, scientific specialties being what they   are, this might not help much even if I were trying to identify a   stonefly unless he happened to be a taxonomist or have some other reason   to be familiar with my target species. I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you.     As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal   differently than expected for a variety of reasons.  Hell, it isn’t even   unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown   to science.  Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of   small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time.   There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known   species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner.  For example, an   uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of   numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial   confluence of circumstances. You may very well be right about this. One of the researchers I contacted said that they were MANY unknown species and local variations. There just isn’t much grant money available to study them. The vast amount of research done on insects is on insect control (where the money is). Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")?  If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search.  If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember.  I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double  wings…"

Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access anything on the web right now.  We had some trouble with the college server last week.  Looks like it may not be entirely resolved yet.  I’ll take a look at the Epeorus as soon as I can. Thanks Wolfgang

Response:

I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes.  There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. According to the book, they are clumsy on takeoff as they are so large, often skipping across  the water. They emerge at dusk or after sunset being primarily a cool lake species but slow, silty parts of rivers will hold them too. BTW, at the beginning of August, we drove through a blizzard light cahill hatch at dusk.  Still trying to get the critters off my car. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

  Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula.

I was fortunate to fish a Brown Drake hatch this year at Silver Creek. These are by far the largest mayflies I’ve ever seen, and the hatch was prolific. The hatch occurs in the evening and through the night, until it’s so dark that you can only detect the takes by ear. These bugs live in slow moving water with a silty bottom. The nymphs are swimmers, and they’ll take fish before the hatch with a stripped retrieve. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

 Wolfgang, dear boy.  There is only one mayfly that is as prolific as the ones you describe.  Hexagina Limbatas!  So thick are they during the early days that they would cover a cabin and all the screen doors with their numbers. God!  What an insect! George Gehrke

Response:

  Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

Nope.  Found a picture of Ephemera simulans: http://www.flyshop.com/bench/hatchguide/index.cfm?page=bug&row=13 Not the same critter at all.  As the common name suggests, this beastie is brown.  The one I remember is black. Thanks. Wolfgang

Response:

I think they were some kind of a variation of huge Brown Drake. Hear me out. I’ve got the same question… 55-60 years ago, when I was growing up in Chicago, I lived on the far north side 2 blocks from Lake Michigan.  Every summer, sometime in June, there was a massive hatch of Mayflys almost exactly as you describe.  They were coming off the shore of the lake. There was no other body of water within 50 miles that could support such a hatch. It was so prolific it completely blackened the street lights, covered the store front windows – you couldn’t see out.  They covered the ground so thick they squished under your feet. I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black.  They were easily size 6 – 8.  They were NOT Hexigina. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes. Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth.  Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off.  The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven.   Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Nope.  Found a picture of Ephemera simulans: http://www.flyshop.com/bench/hatchguide/index.cfm?page=bug&row=13 Not the same critter at all.  As the common name suggests, this beastie is brown.  The one I remember is black. Thanks.

Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas?

wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image… –waldo

Response:

Wolfgang asks: Any ideas?

ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access). People will probably suggest Ephemera and Hexes, but there an awful lot of obscure mayfly species, and lakes have locale specific subspecies you might never encounter unless you blunder on them. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since.                                   Tom

Response:

Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg

That looks a lot more like what I remember.  There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown.  On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range.  Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger. All in all, I think uncle Wally’s candidate looks the most promising.     :) Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas? wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image…

THAT’S IT!  I’d recognize the bastard anywhere! Wolfgang who is reasonably certain he doesn’t even want to know what the nymphs look like.      :(

Response:

I think they were some kind of a variation of huge Brown Drake. Hear me out. I’ve got the same question… 55-60 years ago, when I was growing up in Chicago, I lived on the far north side 2 blocks from Lake Michigan.  Every summer, sometime in June, there was a massive hatch of Mayflys almost exactly as you describe.  They were coming off the shore of the lake. There was no other body of water within 50 miles that could support such a hatch. It was so prolific it completely blackened the street lights, covered the store front windows – you couldn’t see out.  They covered the ground so thick they squished under your feet.

I remember talking about this with you, but I don’t recall whether you said anything about the substrate there.  The bugs I encountered would almost have to have been burrowers.  The bottom of this lake was very soft….even very near shore where turbulence would wash away at least some of the muck you would sink at least ankle deep in the stuff.  I’m not intimately familiar with the Lake Michigan shoreline in the Chicago area, so I may have missed it, but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom.  Do you know of any such? I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black.  They were easily size 6 – 8.  

Size and color scheme sound about right. They were NOT Hexigina.

Absolutely right.  Impossible to mistake the Hex for anything else. Moreover, while I don’t remember just how long they were around, we encountered them when we first left the cottage in the morning, which would have been fairly early (at a cottage on a lake in what we thought of as the north woods nothing…..well, almost nothing…could keep us indoors much past sunrise on a sunny day) and I remember that we stayed inside for the rest of the day, and perhaps even the next.  These bugs were active….VERY active….throughout the day. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes.

Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that? Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth.  Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off.  The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven.

Pretty picture!  Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

Response:

Wolfgang writes… but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom.  Do you know of any such?

That’s true.  It was a clean sandy bottom.  Not protected.  Well washed  by the wave action.  Vegatation about 30 to 50 yds out from shore. Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that?

I don’t think so.  You’re imagining. Pretty picture!  Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang

I still think they were Brown Drakes.  Looked a lot like the picture from the web site Warren posted.  But they were 6 & 8 for sure – not 10 & 12. Big guys!  I’ll dream of catching 10 lb. rainbow.  You dream of being blanketed by a hatch of monster mayflys. we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

Let me know the details. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Wolfgang asks: Any ideas? ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access).

I’ve found all kinds of good entomological sites on the web, but all fall short of what would be ideal for this situation.  For example, I found a site that has range maps for all known mayfly species within the state of Wisconsin (a USGS site, of all the odd places) but as interesting, and doubtless valuable, this information is, it’s pretty much useless without cross referenced information regarding appearance, habitat, and habit of the target species.  Other sites have much of that information, but matching the information on various sites is daunting, to say the least.  I have found some references to individual species which sounded promising for one reason or another but in many cases have been unable to find photographs of the bugs in question….and on and on. Consulting an entomologist has occurred to me, but this is neither as easy nor necessarily as promising as it might sound.  First, one would necessarily have to find an aquatic entomologist (or at least one with a specific interest in aquatic species…..a fly fisher perhaps).  I know of a good aquatic entomologist at UW, Stevens Point but he happens to specialize in plecoptera and, scientific specialties being what they are, this might not help much even if I were trying to identify a stonefly unless he happened to be a taxonomist or have some other reason to be familiar with my target species. People will probably suggest Ephemera and Hexes, but there an awful lot of obscure mayfly species, and lakes have locale specific subspecies you might never encounter unless you blunder on them.

Right, on all counts.  Both Ephemera and Isonychia look like good candidates based on photos, but both are questionable on the basis of size.  I don’t yet know enough about habit or habitat with regard to either genus.  Hexagenia limbata is definitely out for a variety of reasons. As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal differently than expected for a variety of reasons.  Hell, it isn’t even unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown to science.  Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time. There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner.  For example, an uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial confluence of circumstances. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes.

I just looked up Litobrancha.  Interestingly, the first hit I looked at was a UW Stevens Point website which contains a list of "AQUATIC INSECTS OF WISCONSIN RECENT SYNONYMS AT SPECIFIC OR HIGHER LEVELS" authored by none other than Stanley W. Szczytko, the aquatic entomologist I mentioned above, and Jeffrey J. Dimick, who used to be (and quite possibly still is) president of a local TU chapter in the area.  They list Litobrancha  in the "recent taxonomy" column next to Hexagenia (in part) under "prior taxonomy", and Litobrancha recurvata next to Hexagenia recurvata.  Looking at another dozen or sites, I have not yet found a photo.  I’ll keep working on this one. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since.

Doesn’t sound like my bug.  I don’t know when they came off, but they were very active through a bright sunny day.  Of course, it must be remembered that I’m basing all of this on memories of an event that occurred more than forty years ago and that I was not much interested in close observation of the bugs at the time.  In all likelihood, I’ll never be able to solve this mystery.  I thought (and I still do) that my best bet was to put it out here and hope that someone just happens to be familiar with this hatch in this particular place.  I think it’s just about time for a brilliant lurker with an encyclopedic knowledge of the Ephemeroptera to show him or herself and demonstrate how pitiful the rest of us really are.     :) Wolfgang thanks tom.

Response:

  Well, roughly anyway.   Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

Response:

Well, roughly anyway. My father’s cousin, Sam Friederich, owned a couple acres of land and a cottage (a dacha, as a Russian physicist I recently spoke with, "…not what YOU call a cottage here!" called it) on Kangaroo lake in Door County, Wisconsin.  For those not familiar with the area, Door County is the long finger of land which runs to the northeast up into Lake Michigan and thus forms Green Bay to the west. Kangaroo lake, http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=45.0325&lon=-87.15889 was, in the late 1950s, lightly developed.  There were a couple of small resorts, a few permanent year round homes, several cottages like the one we frequently stayed at, all of them on the larger, southern section of the lake south of the causeway, and a single very large estate on the island.  Whatever organic pollutants entered the lake as a result of human habitation were still minimal at that time.  In other words, the water was very clean and the biome had probably changed little since pre-Columbian times.  Kangaroo lake was a wonderful place to swim, even for city bred kids like me, as long as one didn’t allow one’s feet to touch the bottom.  The lake bed was marl, and thus about as icky a thing to come into contact with as was imagineable….except, of course, for the things that actually LIVED in that oozy bottom! One day all those things that lived in the bottom (although I didn’t realize their origin at the time) came out.  The air was filled with bugs.  Millions of bugs.  Maybe billions of bugs.  They were so bold or so crazed or stupid that they would land on anything or anybody.  Adult reassurances that they were perfectly harmless fell on deaf ears and neither I nor my brothers or sister could be coaxed to go outside for any reason…..threats and coercion worked, but you get the picture. In the ensuing years, I have often wondered exactly what those bugs were.  My interest in fly fishing, running close onto twenty years worth now, makes it easy to say with certainty that they were some variety of mayfly, but I still haven’t been able to identify the species. Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger.  They were a dark, slate gray to nearly black and, if memory serves after all these years, they were almost certainly duns or sub-imagos….dark, nearly opaque wings. On a couple of occasions in the last two or three years I’ve made occasional efforts to locate resources on line which might solve the mystery for me but have, as yet, had no success. Any ideas? Wolfgang

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Quetico Smallmouth in September

Quetico Smallmouth in September

Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

Response:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Fishing Season is over! (For me that is)

Fishing Season is over! (For me that is)

Question:

I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.

I had my left knee done last October, the right one done in December and was on the water again in April. Had the lakes been open, I might have been fishing even sooner – the Doc told me a kickboat would be excellent  therapy. In any case,  good luck with the surgery. Regards, Dennis Smith Loveland, CO Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

 Mike, Here’s wishing you a successful visit to the hospital, and get over it quickly. Good luck. Regards from Wales. — Bill

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

– Mike, Good luck with your surgery and we’ll be sure to save some fish fer ya… –Walt

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing. All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Mike: Sorry to hear about the knee problems. What kind of reconstruction are you having?  I had patellar graft reconstruction on my left knee 6 years ago and have been *extremely* happy with the result. You might even find that you could still get some fishing in this season.  By three months post-op, I was doing a lot of the things I wanted to, just being careful. Best of luck to you.  It is amazing what they can do to repair things these days. Bob

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing.   All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Salmon Fly Fishing » anyone tried fishing at a fly-in resort?

anyone tried fishing at a fly-in resort?

Question:

Always wondered if you got what you paid for?

Back in 1991, I went to Canada’s Northwest Territories on a fly-in trip.  To research it, I called the NWT tourism bureau.  They were able to give me quite a bit of valuable info on winners and losers in the fly-in fishing biz.  My choice (one of her recommendations) was great and I will go back to NWT as soon as I can afford it. Peter

Response:

some of the people who have gone on guided trips in BC have done extremely well – limited out for Salmon, Halibut & cod as well as a big haul of shrimp and crab. Northwest Fishing Guides who have a lodge in Terrace BC take people out to the ocean or take them to freshwater fishing areas and are very successfull.  I have had very good reports on them. My pages have listings – Northwest and many other fishing guides, take a look – it won’t cost anything to look! Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Always wondered if you got what you paid for? Back in 1991, I went to Canada’s Northwest Territories on a fly-in trip.  To research it, I called the NWT tourism bureau.  They were able to give me quite a bit of valuable info on winners and losers in the fly-in fishing biz.  My choice (one of her recommendations) was great and I will go back to NWT as soon as I can afford it. Peter

Response:

some of the people who have gone on guided trips in BC have done extremely well – limited out for Salmon, Halibut & cod as well as a big haul of shrimp and crab.

[snip] Fly-fishing for shrimp and crab? Shouldn’t this be in the "Strange Fish On The Fly" thread? ;^)

Response:

Always wondered if you got what you paid for?

Response:

Always wondered if you got what you paid for?

Sometimes it’s better than you imagined it could be.  Other times you can be disappointed and once in a while, you can feel absolutely cheated.  It pays to do research and check references.

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Flyfishing Blues..Outer banks…???

Flyfishing Blues..Outer banks…???

Question:

will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small  blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of  a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

Response:

will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

At Thanksgiving there should be some small blues about but what about the big boiyz!  they are going to be there at that time.  AS wellas striped bass and red drum.  There will be plenty of trout, speckled sea trout, at the lighthouse for a person fishing a clouser minnow with a sinking line. No streams within 8 hour drive, sorry.  Check my website for NC flyfishing stuff. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Line » Wednesday Chat

Wednesday Chat

Question:

Hi Group I realize the last Wednesday Chat had some problems. With help from this newsgroup (Joe Byrd) the folks at Fly Fish America have fixed-up their chat place with a thing called "Java" or something like that – I’m not as computer literate as I should be but struggling. So —— Let’s try another chat session on Wednesday evening at 6:00pm MST at http://www.FlyFishAmerica.com?  then click on the "Chat icon-bar." I hope to see my "on-line" friends there. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Hi Group I realize the last Wednesday Chat had some problems. With help from this newsgroup (Joe Byrd) the folks at Fly Fish America have fixed-up their chat place with a thing called "Java" or something like that – I’m not as computer literate as I should be but struggling. So —— Let’s try another chat session on Wednesday evening at 6:00pm MST at http://www.FlyFishAmerica.com?  then click on the "Chat icon-bar." I Sorry, I made a mistake on the address, here it is

http://www.FlyFishAmerica.com/ — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I’ll be there!!!! Joe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group I realize the last Wednesday Chat had some problems. With help from this newsgroup (Joe Byrd) the folks at Fly Fish America have fixed-up their chat place with a thing called "Java" or something like that – I’m not as computer literate as I should be but struggling. So —— Let’s try another chat session on Wednesday evening at 6:00pm MST at http://www.FlyFishAmerica.com?  then click on the "Chat icon-bar." I Sorry, I made a mistake on the address, here it is http://www.FlyFishAmerica.com/ — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Al, Here is the deal,  Tell me what 0600 MST is in relation to GMT, and I promise not to tell you what java is. Cheers Bruce….

Response:

Well, I can’t answer a lot of questions, but the difference between GMT and MST is 7 hours – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I realize the last Wednesday Chat had some problems. With help from this newsgroup (Joe Byrd) the folks at Fly Fish America have fixed-up their Here is the deal,  Tell me what 0600 MST is in relation to GMT, and I Bruce….

Response:

Hello all… Sorry for the troubles we had before but they are now behind us. I re-wrote the FlyFishAmerica.com chat area, it has been fixed, it supports a lot more users and is wicked fast. It does not require any downloading or special software and is based on SERVERside Java which does not even require a Java enabled browser. Bob Stewart http://www.flyfishamerica.com/chat/chat.html

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » San Pedro boat finds tuna

San Pedro boat finds tuna

Question:

Tradewinds is a total joke.Do not go on a tuna  trip with these guys. And be darn careful about making sure what kind of fishing you are really in for. The idea of "sport" among these guys is handlining. We took an 18 hour tuna trip with Tradewinds on Monday night. It was the captains first trip for tuna. Ever.They wouldn’t let us fish with rod and reel beacuse they said we would "never land a fish". After trolling from 2:30 AM until 2:30 PM and only catching 4 fish for the whole boat we begged to use a rod and reel for the last hour. You guessed it. 5 minutes and I was into a 20+ fish. The fight brought up more fish and we boated 4 more on the pass. My buddy talked the mate into removing the 150+leader from the hootchie and tie one up with the 50lb pink Ande he had brought along. 10 minutes later he caught the fish of the trip at around 30 lb. To the captains credit he tried hard, and stayed out an extra hour, but handlining is meat fishing, not sport. Maybe run a couple of handlines for those folks who can’t thumb a drag but at least be up front about it. When we made the reservation we asked if it was handlining or rod fishing and were assured that it was rod and reel only.  It seemed that all the boats were running almost exclusively handlines with only the occasional rod. Next time I’m going to charter my own  boat with a couple of other guys so I can use my fly rod!

Response:

Tradewinds is a total joke.Do not go on a tuna  trip with these guys. And be darn careful about making sure what kind of fishing you are really in for. [stuff skipped] To the captains credit he tried hard, and stayed out an extra hour, but handlining is meat fishing, not sport. Maybe run a couple of handlines for those folks who can’t thumb a drag but at least be up front about it. When we made the reservation we asked if it was handlining or rod fishing and were assured that it was rod and reel only.  It seemed that all the boats were running almost exclusively handlines with only the occasional rod.

You thumb the drag on a tuna?  That’s a pretty tough thumb :-) . I had called Newport Tradewinds last week.  They told me that they did do handlining, but would do rod and reel if the customers had equipment, and wanted to do it that way. Are there any party boats or even charters in Oregon that do rod and reel for albacore? -Dave B.

Response:

Why go to Oregon, Washington is having those same albacore.  Try Westport.

Response:

Thanks for the info about the charters out of Newport, Bob.  I gave Tradewinds a call yesterday and they told me thier first tuna trip of the year would be this friday morning … departure time 12:01 a.m.  … an 18 hr. trip!!  They told me that other charter boats have been catching at the rate of ten tuna per passanger at 45 miles. I was telling a co-worker a little while later that the tuna had moved in and he told me that the Oregonian (sports line?) said that the tuna were in to 42 miles.  The SouthWest wind is blowing and has been blowing since Tuesday so that should push the warm water and fish even closer. I then contacted Steve Larkins at Pacific City and he called Trollers Charters in Garibaldi and they said the fish were between 50-55 miles off shore.  That’s close enough!  It is time for some vacation and a couple of tuna trips!! The weather should be turning today with a high pressure starting to build.  That means that the ocean *should* be real nice on Friday so a few of us are going to make our first exploratory trip out to about 50 miles and see if we can score.  One of the advantages to fishing dories is where it will take a charter boat 5-6 hours to get out to the 50 mile area where the tuna are, it will only take us about 1.5-2  hours to go the same distance (depending on who the slowest boat is). Well, at any rate, wish me luck.  By tomorrow at this time (9:00) I hope to be out 30-40 miles and have at least a couple of dozen fish in the boat.  If I do I’ll give you’all a report a week from Monday (I’m off on vacation for at *least* a week as soon as the tuna show within striking distance of P.C.).  If I don’t score I’ll post that here this coming Monday. Sea ya,                                 Fish to Live, Live to Fish                                    ’Fish Assassin’ Mark                                      Pacific City, OR ******* Just an old tech. guy livin’ in a High Tech world ******* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Call Newport Tradewinds at 1-800-676-7819.  I just talked to the owner, Burt Waddell a couple of days ago and he said the tuna were within 45 miles of the coast, so the long one-day trips have started.  They also have multiple day trips. I’ve fished with these guys in the past and they really work hard to help you catch fish. Good Fishing, Bob says… who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

Response:

who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

Response:

Call Newport Tradewinds at 1-800-676-7819.  I just talked to the owner, Burt Waddell a couple of days ago and he said the tuna were within 45 miles of the coast, so the long one-day trips have started.  They also have multiple day trips. I’ve fished with these guys in the past and they really work hard to help you catch fish. Good Fishing, Bob says… who is the best charter down there??? I am from Southern CA … but i live in Port Angeles WA. .. Now … Who should I call down there?????

– +  The Anadromous Page at:  http://www.peak.org/~robertr/fishing.html +

Response:

22nd Street Landing turned in the first fish counts that included bluefin tuna yesterday (Wed., 7/26). According to the office manager, the El Dorado got 4 bluefin and 4 yellowtail (among other things) on their daily overnight run while fishing somewhere south of San Clemente Island. 22nd Street can be reached at (310) 832-8304.

Response:

Oregon Tuna News, 7/31/95 Talked to Phil at Hoy Brother Fish Co. yesterday (Sunday, 7/30) and he told me that they unloaded their first tuna troller Saturday.  It was a 3 day trip out of Garibaldi and they fished between 60 and 100 miles off- shore.  When they were headed in they even found a few of the bigger cold water fish in to about 42 miles. The fish seem to be moving closer to shore at the rate of about 20 miles a week.  The Dory fleet out of Pacific City is getting geared up and we should be fishing for tuna within the next 2 weeks. The boat that off-loaded at Hoy Brothers brought in 400 fish for thier 3 day effort.  There were two people on board … the skipper and one deck hand.  Average weight was just a hair over 11 lbs.  The bad news is that the ex-vessel price was only $.65/lb.  Last year when we started fishing tuna we got $1.00/lb and that dropped to $.85 after the market got pretty flooded.  Phil told me he expected the price to move upward to about $1600-$1700/ton which would equate to 80-85 cents a lb.   We have heard unconfirmed reports of tuna off Newport, Or. as close in as 40 miles.  No commercial boats but a few charters are going for them.  The tackle stores are doing a bang up business.  It’s real easy to spend a couple hundred bucks on gear and it seems like *everybody* is gearing up. The excitement of last years tuna coming close (20 miles) has got every- body in it’s grip. As soon as they are in striking distance of the day boats (40-50 miles for my boat) I’m off for two weeks fishing tuna every day.  I’ll try to keep everybody posted until I leave.  ;)                                 Fish to Live, Live to Fish                                    ’Fish Assassin’ Mark                                      Pacific City, OR ***     Looking for adventure on the high seas off Pacific City, Or.    ***

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Tube Fly Tool Question.

Tube Fly Tool Question.

Question:

I know somewhere on the cyber-river, someone has come up with a cheap way to tie tube flies without paying $50 for a store bought tool.  If anyone can help with ideas for a jig to hold tubes when tying, I would appreciate it.  Thanks. *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * *   Skip Summer                     From somewhere in the      * *                                   fishing for smallmouth.    * *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Response:

Skip,     Most of the tubes I use have a plastic liner…I use a Regal vise and simply use a needle of an appropriate size, jam the needle point into plastic liner and put the "eye" end of needle in regal.                             Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

I know somewhere on the cyber-river, someone has come up with a cheap way to tie tube flies without paying $50 for a store bought tool.  If anyone can help with ideas for a jig to hold tubes when tying, I would appreciate it.  Thanks.

I’m obviously no help, but what the heck is a tube fly.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

Response:

We need help from the europeans here!!!! What do you use over there…I brought back from Ireland  lots of tubes but I am still quite inept at tying anything resembling a fly. How do you hold the darn thing?  I remember seeing adds for special tools in the Kauffman catalog some years ago but as I was deleted from their mailing list (I guess I do not buy enough) I do not know if they are still available. In any case, does the $50 dollar gizzmo work?   Thanks. Rio Simpson

Response:

We need help from the europeans here!!!! What do you use over there…I brought back from Ireland  lots of tubes but I am still quite inept at tying anything resembling a fly. How do you hold the darn thing?  I remember seeing adds for special tools in the Kauffman catalog some years ago but as I was deleted from their mailing list (I guess I do not buy enough) I do not know if they are still available. In any case, does the $50 dollar gizzmo work?   Thanks. Rio Simpson

I have been tying tube flies for many years and with the tubing I use (1/8 " nylon) a carefully selected coat hanger works OK. If you want a real quality brass and steel tool there is one made by a gentleman in Tacoma WA and is available from Clearwater Angler, 620 Auburn Way So. Suite J, Auburn WA  98002, 939-1484 Brian Steel

Response:

: I’m obviously no help, but what the heck is a tube fly. It’s a fly tied on a plastic tube, rather than on a hook shank. To use, pass your leader through the tube (now dressed with the appropriate combination of feathers, fur, hair, etc) and fasten a hook on the end of the leader. Popular in Europe, some following in North America. Make excellent "long" streamers, e.g to imitate a sand eel. May not meet the definition of "fly fishing" under some regulations (just a warning). — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

rio,     Have never had to bother with the $50 tool.  Try a large needle, jam point into tube until it grips, put eye end in vise and tie away…keep jaws quite close to end of tube or needle will flex too much…might also consider using 6/0 thread as too heavy a hand will cause tube to rotate on needle and/or bend needle.                                 Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Foul Weather Gear

Foul Weather Gear

Question:

        On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor."  I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.         Where is this leading to?         Buy Helly Hansen fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!!  I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) —

Response:

A foulie jacket should either have built-in flotation, or be light and flexible enough to be worn comfortabley with a pfd. This rules out most of the jackets on the market, imho. Ever try to swim in foulies and boots? Either buy an expensive float-coat (very warm, too) or get a light nylon shell (the kind made for white-water canoeing are perfect) and use it in conjuction with sweater or fleece jacket and a pfd, when called for.

I used a canoeing jacket for a few seasons. I don’t agree that it is the best choice for heavy weather sailing. It worked fine for an occational light spray, but it didn’t hold up for the constant pounding with water on rough days. I would quickly get all soaked. It was an enormous improvement when I bought a real foul weather jacket. My usual advice to new sailors is to spend money on the pants and boots, and wait on the jacket.

This makes sense. You’ll quickly wear out any light pants. At least the jacket doesn’t have to take all that abrasive abuse. I wear my pfd inside of a seriously oversized jacket. I have found that this gives me less problems with condensation than doing it the other way. It also reduces the risk of getting tangled in or caought somewhere, and keeps your pfd dry (= fewer wet things in the boat, wich is nice if you’re out for several days.) I don’t think the heavy foul weather gear makes me less mobile. I may feel less mobile after a few hours of constant hard work in a heavy weather race, but that’s because I’m tired. /m

Response:

     I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" that I may want to look for?                                                         Thanks,                                                                 Doug — Tar is not a play thing..I will not steal school property..Spit balls are not free speach..I will not bribe principal Skinner..I will not Xerox(tm) my butt .I will not teach others to fly..I will not do that thing with my tongue..BART

Response:

:      I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the : boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and : see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking : for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. : Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" : that I may want to look for? :                                                       Thanks, :                                                               Doug : — : Tar is not a play thing..I will not steal school property..Spit balls are not : free speach..I will not bribe principal Skinner..I will not Xerox(tm) my butt : .I will not teach others to fly..I will not do that thing with my tongue..BART — Is that "West" as in West Marine?  My wife and I both have their "Explorer" (? I think) foul weather gear and we are very happy with it.  It did quite well in Practical Sailor’s review of foulies, as well.   The ONLY down side of it that I’ve found is that it is a little heavy for warm weather sailing.  Since that’s not usually a problem here in the Pacific NW, I’m quite happy with it. Chas Douglass/the "Emma Christine" + When I was in school, I cheated on my metaphysics exam.              + + I looked into the soul of the boy sitting next to me.                + + Woody Allen                                                          +

Response:

:      I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the : boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and : see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking : for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. : Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" : that I may want to look for? :                                                  Thanks, :                                                          Doug

Waterproof helps. Seriously, a big thing I cared about that many jackets didn’t address was adequate sealing about the neck. a $500 Henri Lloyd isn’t much good when spray hits you and runs inside the jacket repeatedly!!!! I got a pretty good deal on serious offshore gear – from Boat/US, actually. They sell other companies’ gear with their name on it – I have heard doubts about the quality, although mine has lasted very well. I hear Gore-Tex (Helly-Tech, whatever!) eventually leaks, but mine works okay for light spray. The PVC coating in my heavier gear, along with the sealed cuffs and neck, keep me surprisingly warm. It’s really too warm for active races. Alan Moore My opinions only.

Response:

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