Question:

I wanted some information on the Calvan 2.75 reel.  What do you all think?  Are they any good? That should be Galvan Real not Calvan. So, what do you think of them? I’ve seen them in a couple of fly shops. From what I can tell, they’re creat

I think mine is very gool. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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That should be Galvan Real not Calvan. So, what do you think of them? De Loy

I’ve got two Calvans.  They’re not as nice as the Galvans but the name tag is spiffy and goes with my wading jeans.  The advantage of the Calvan is it holds 300 yards of backing with a WF12F Hilfiger line.  If you get the drag model it comes with a wig and a pair of high heels along with an Elton John CD. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Hilfiger?  Isn’t he the guy that was talking to Opra and said, . . . ? Before you buy.

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I’m new here so please help me out. I wanted some information on the Calvan 2.75 reel.  What do you all think?  Are they any good? Thanks, De Loy Before you buy.

Response:

I’m new here so please help me out. I wanted some information on the Calvan 2.75 reel.  What do you all think?  Are they any good? Thanks, De Loy Before you buy.

That should be Galvan Real not Calvan. So, what do you think of them? De Loy Before you buy.

Response:

I wanted some information on the Calvan 2.75 reel.  What do you all think?  Are they any good? That should be Galvan Real not Calvan. So, what do you think of them?

I’ve seen them in a couple of fly shops. From what I can tell, they’re creat –Steve

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Question:

Hi everybody:         Where i can see more information about the fly fishing in New Zealand????,   ….please, help me!!!!

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Go to http://www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html and follow the Geographical links to New Zealand where you should find a number of resources.  Tight lines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody:         Where i can see more information about the fly fishing in New Zealand????,   ….please, help me!!!!

Response:

Hi everybody:         Where i can see more information about the fly fishing in New Zealand????,   ….please, help me!!!!

Check out the sites below. Handy general info licenses etc. http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/ A good resource for Fly Fishing in the lower South Island http://www.frontierfishing.co.nz/ —                             Cheers PK                   Remove NOSPAM when replying     If you’re not living on the edge you’re just taking up space

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Hi everybody:         Where i can see more information about the fly fishing in New Zealand????,   ….please, help me!!!! I can

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.

Wayno & Michael, I’m good for any stretch you guys feel like. Upper, middle, or lower stretches suit me just fine. I do agree with you Wayne…upper-upper is tough and challenging not to mention just plain dangerous in felt shoes. I did it from edgemont up to 221 about a month ago…talk about mountain climbing. It was a rewarding trip….brookies ;^) Just give me a call/e-mail if you guys want to get together and fish sometime… preferably during/after leaf season…. –Walt

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I        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!

Just recently so Wayne…. Back in December when the floods came through I managed to snag a renegade sparklin’ white 2.5 gallon American Standard on my 4 wt. It probably washed out of some floridiot’s, hmm, floron’s, hmm, Floridians vacation home. It did give me a bit of a tussle, what with the flood waters and all. But hell, I had #3 tippet on and managed to drag that thing on shore with a bit of wranglin. It was the first time my wife ever smiled when I brought my catch home, she didn’t mind cleanin’ that fish at all. Next day I installed it in the privvy and now have the extreme satisfaction of flushin my kaka directly downstream into Tennessee Ain’t ‘Merica wunnerful’ ?        later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.

give me a holler…one of my favorite streams…. –Flushin’ Wataugan Walt

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For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

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I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Please, oh, please say it ain’t so Joe (oops, Walt)…. I just got my updated fishin’ regs from the NC WRC in the mail yesterday — they are kind of draggin for us lifetime license holders since they already have all the money they are going to get out of us customer service isn’t high on the list — and the Watauga and Boones Fork sections were still listed, respectively, Delayed Harvest and C&R, FF-only. What’s the deal on closing these fine fisheries — did somebody just get a burr up their butt? Nonetheless, if what you have shared is (has?) come to pass that is a real pisser for fishing in the Boone area and really makes me want to break down and have a good tear-fest. My uncle has a vacation home just above Taylor’s Store in Foscoe that our family uses quite frequently and my dad and I have enjoyed fishing these two sections of stream for years.  I guess we’ll just head down to Wilson’s Creek with you and Wayno — and all the other disgruntled poor folks …. These local jewels will be truly missed.

Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

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I don’t like to be out on a stream flyfishing during deer hunting season either.  There is a river I fish during  hunting season which is on a game preserve.  Deer hunters don’t even camp in the area. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —    oink, oink.    wayno

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods. I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

        oink, oink.         wayno

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I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.  

I know what you mean…it’s tough enough hauling my own ass outta’ there. On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

I’m more uneasy during "deliverance" season –Walt —

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are you saying that up stream of it is going to be posted to ?

yes…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off.

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I’m glad I’m not the only guy that considers the upper Wilson to be a challenge: I love that part of God’s earth, but MAN is it tough travelin’ in and out!  I have some good fly-fishing friends that I don’t invite to go there with me because they’re over weight and out of shape:  I can just imagine them hiking in with me, having a coronary 4 miles up stream, dying in the middle of a little pool filled with trout, and that’d screw up the remainder of a good day by having to somehow haul their dead butts out to the road.   On a serious note: does anyone ever feel uneasy about fishing those waters during deer hunting season?  I’d hate to wind up shot and mounted on some guys hunting cabin wall, just because they couldn’t resist the temptation to shoot at things moving in the woods.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Walt, thanks for the clarification….not the best of news, but not quite as bad as I orginally thought.  Given the wild trout status on the upper,upper section and the amount of fishing pressure it is likely to receive combined with a lack of ‘migration’ up from the now closed section — it may not be able to sustain a large fishable population. It will probably decline until it gets so poor that the fishing pressure drops and a happy (unhappy?) equilibrium is reached at a low population of both trout and trout fishermen. Still not greatly excited over the delayed harvest section along Shulls Mill down into Valle Crucis from a habitat standpoint — but better this than wild trout — I don’t think this section would sustain a wild popolation from season-to-season from both a seasonal temperature and reproduction standpoint.  Not to mention the contributions from the ‘poop’ treatment plants.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

Oh! No!, Damn, Damn, and Damn!  How’d that happen without consulting the rest of us who fish that water!?  Reckon they’ll turn the "native" part above SR#1580 into catch and release or what?  I have caught many fish from the now "exclusive" waters but not a thing which had eyes on it below the 105 Bridge toward Valle Crucis.  Next thing they’ll do is to ban spitting Red Man in the water to chum the browns, while allowing the elite to continue to drop ashes from their Macanudos to draw rainbows . Mac McCaskill

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Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land.

        come on, now, walter; surely you are numbered among the wealthy in watauga county!  hell, man, i have it on reliable information that you flush your own kaka!         later  ( when the temps drop below 90 in the piedmont, i think i’ll come up to wilson creek.         a. wayne harrison

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        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Wayne, how do you get a wagon into the headwaters of the Wilson?  Every trail I have ever used for the mainstem and tribs was a best suited for Sherpas, mountain goats and/or llamas to pack in the equipment — and still no easy task. Last time I fished the upper Wilson headwaters (late 1997) I started off near Edgemont Road/FR 192 and went down…the first time I have done that…and probaby the last — after a day of hard fishing I barely had enough energy left to climb back out.  Most of the time I go on down to Brown Mtn Beach and come up through the gorge to Edgemont/Mortimer and then take my pick of Lost Cove, Harpers/North Harpers, Rockhouse, or the main Wilson…at least it is fish upstream while I am fresh and then walk downhill/downstream back at the end of the day.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

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 (big spip) wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

        if* we’re* goin up the headwaters of wilson, *we* had better bring a couple native bearers and  a wagon.         it was all i could do to make the hike out from upper wilson when i was 35 and racin dirt bikes.  now that i’m 56 and a bad drunk, the brookies can relax.         wayno

Response:

Hi Walt, I’m a little confused….I  seen the posted signs at the golf course, but, are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Michael, I need to clarify it a little…. The section that is becoming private is from the old green metal rr bridge downstream to the south end of hounds ears. The section above the green bridge up to Taylor’s (including Keller’s sippin’ pool) will change from delayed harvest to wild trout water. so…. from somewhere in valle crucis (i heard broadstone) up to the church at hounds ear will be designated delayed harvest. from the church (actually a little upstream from the church) up to the green bridge will be private posted waters with rangers runnin’ us poach..ooops, po’ folk off. from the green bridge up to the headwaters will be wild trout water with no further stocking. hope that helps put you at ease a little… wilsons with you and wayno sounds like a winner to me….fantastic stream up on the spine of grandfather… –Walt

Response:

Howdy All…. Creeks, streams, and rivers are still running warm and low, but not as bad as they were a few weeks ago. The streams on the higher mountains are ok temp wise, but are low. Managed to catch a nice brownie on a headwater this past weekend and missed a few others…japanese beetle pattern. For anyone interested, the Watauga (my homewater) is having its regulations changed. The former delayed harvest section along 105 between Taylor’s store bridge and Hound’s Ear is becoming a private fishery for the wealthy along with the Boones Fork up to the parkway land. The new Delayed Harvest portion will be from Hound’s Ear down through the gorge and into Valle Crucis somewhere. See ya, Walt

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Question:

and all thier relatives live up here in Nova Scotia – long live the Canadian Air Force ! To quote an angler whose name escapes me, "There isn’t a single blackfly in the Adirondacks – they’re all married with very large families!"

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

Hi I’m travelling to Schroon Lake for the third week of June: 20-27. I heard the blackfly season should be over by then. Can anyone help me confirm this, or should I bring a case of deet with me? Thanks, Henry

Response:

Yup – the black flies will be gone, but the mosquitos will just be starting.

Response:

To quote an angler whose name escapes me, "There isn’t a single blackfly in the Adirondacks – they’re all married with very large families!"

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Hi I’m travelling to Schroon Lake for the third week of June: 20-27. I heard the blackfly season should be over by then. Can anyone help me confirm this, or should I bring a case of deet with me? Thanks, Henry

Henry,     You’ll be missing the black flies, but will hit the real beginning of the mosquitos, the no-see-ums, and the height of the deerflies.  Leave the DEET at home; it damages your liver and turns the no-see-ums and deerflies into mean drunks.  A nice side-by-side 28-guage would be just right (#12 shot).   Or go naked and lose ten pounds a day. Bob Scott

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Thanks everybody for all your help (I think) -h – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m travelling to Schroon Lake for the third week of June: 20-27. I heard the blackfly season should be over by then. Can anyone help me confirm this, or should I bring a case of deet with me? Mosquitoes follow blackfly, and an important difference is that mosquitoes bite you under canvas (and I’ve never understood why blackfly do not.)  The main thing is that mosquito attacks are worst in the open at sunset, when the fishing is often best: to concentrate on the fishing, most anglers need some sort of fly repellant. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I’m travelling to Schroon Lake for the third week of June: 20-27. I heard the blackfly season should be over by then. Can anyone help me confirm this, or should I bring a case of deet with me?

Mosquitoes follow blackfly, and an important difference is that mosquitoes bite you under canvas (and I’ve never understood why blackfly do not.)  The main thing is that mosquito attacks are worst in the open at sunset, when the fishing is often best: to concentrate on the fishing, most anglers need some sort of fly repellant. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

That’s real interesting!

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but don’t come for the atlantic salmon fishing – the spring season as reported in April Trout and Salmon mag. has been generally very poor with few fish caught, and a lot of excuses (none of which conceal the awful truth of a near collapse of Atlantic Salmon stocks.  Read Fly Fisherman current issue…….tight lines elsewhere guys

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

In California one of our largest crops is rice and the biproduct of rice production consists of millions of mosquito fish and crawdads flushed out of the fields before harvest. Most of these die in the drainage ditches. Since most of the veggies eat rice just think how many animal lives they are responsible for. Harvesting other grains destroys bird nests and draining wetlands to grow these benign grains have destroyed the waterfowl flocks that use to blacken our skies with their flights (do you think that might have been another form of air polution  )   I wish they would enjoy their veggies and leave more good wholesome meat for the rest of us dewayne

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background.                                         -curious

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. [rest deleted]

Well… It *is* the truth, isn’t it ? TimW

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts!

Hmm, using my wonderous (almost if I could get it to work properly) new bit of software at home, I can browse the newsgroups whilst also being able to see the newsgroups list. The concept of people on ‘talk.politic.tibet’, ‘rec.animals.wildlife’, ‘rec.backcountry’ etc being ‘fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts’ just doesn’t really ring true. I think the best thing is to assume it is a troll and <snip — David Arno

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As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters.

This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters.  It is as simple as that.——Muskie

If animals had a voice, they would demand an apology from YOU.

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background.                                    -curious

Sounds kind of funny to me, maybe that doctor should face a review board, sounds like s/he doesn’t know what s/he is talking about.  If it were protein deficiency, that’s one thing, but "dying from lack of meat"….sounds like a diagnosis a 3-year old hamburger lover would make. Cynthia S. Smith http://www.sn.no/~csmith http://www.ifi.uio.no/~cynthias

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= =   As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life =   than hunters or meat eaters. = =   This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being =   killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced =   there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… =   it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity =   of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals =   (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the =   animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create =   urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in =   many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables.  When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel.   Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields  when its pickin’ time.  Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester!   ( the rest deleted)

200 acres?  Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)!  And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

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As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian.

As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  Rangeland contains a wide variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle).  So while it may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding animals. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country.

More so than was caused by the vast herds of bison and pronghorns in the past? Jessica and the zoo: Kosh (dog), Liza (horse), Nikki, Pixel, and Voodoo (Demon Cats from Hell), Flick (snake) and oh yeah, Keith (husband), who puts up with us all.   "Frogs are generally considered a pretty non-violent species. Unless, of course, you’re a fly".  -Kermit

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[brutally slaughtered text was here] As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  

Except in brownies. And I think the original poster has that down just pat. 8^) TimW

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<Hundreds of lines of crap deleted Excellent!  Muskie, meet Dr Jai.  Dr Jai, meet Muskie.  Why don’t the two of you bugger off to alt.fan.jai-maharaj and have a cosy chat? — I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.  I said I didn’t know.                                                 Mark Twain.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Doug Arendt) writes: = =   As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life =   than hunters or meat eaters. = =   This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being =   killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced =   there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… =   it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity =   of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals =   (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the =   animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create =   urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in =   many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? And the previous poster is ignoring that all those ‘pollutants’, urine, fecal matter, etc. are actually the main ingredients in organic fertilizer.  Guess they don’t eat organic produce, huh….. Besides, the WORST pollutant of our water ways is run-off from urban and suburban lawns. Sue — ======= Mike Mayer                     (414) 751-3557     Work: Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI                 Home:

In the west a real factor is the amount of water it takes to grow a pound of steak. Alfalfa and hay need LOTS of water. It is tremendously inefficient to grow our protein on the hoof.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

    —— Hmmmmmmmmm?—— Nice disertation but you’re boy Bob is the exception, not the rule. Americans have TOO MUCH MEAT in their diet and their Cholesterol Levels and Fat levels are beyond reason.  FAT INTAKE should not exceed 5% of the total calories and Cholesterol should be as close to zero as possible. George Gehrke

Response:

Who cares this is a fishing forum….let’s talk FISHING…. (pass the salt and pepper pleaz, while eatting prime rib!)   Em*  

Response:

[snip] BACK UP HERE and consider this.  "ALL life comes from the sun".  You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh.  At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

I hate to be a nit picking buttinsky but using words like "all" and "always" in a statement usually gets you in trouble.  This is no exception.  There have relatively recently been discovered ecosystems that are completely independent of the sun’s energy.  I’m referring to deep sea sulfur vents which exist in total darkness and sulfur reducing bacteria are the primary producers. Regarding cattle etc. being fed grass.  If the doubter ( I’ve lost track of who’s who on this thread) would like to come to Kansas, I’ll show them the largest remaining tract of tallgrass prairie ( and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world ) with all kinds of cattle happily munching the grass and making steak. — Brent L. Brock Kansas State University Dept. Agronomy, Range Science

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes

text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

| Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! [chomp] |  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) | [..] | to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results | were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor Riiiiight! Heard of Craig Shergold?

Response:

[...] : : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. : What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on : GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? : Now we await the long silence…..         Would that we had had to endure YOURS.  Be that as it may, however,         it’s clear that you have never been to a cattle-raising country         in which you actually engaged in observation.  The fact is that         most beef cattle are raised by grazing and, in the U. S. anyway,         only spend the last few weeks of life in a feedlot.  It is my         understanding that many other beef-producing countries dispense         with the feedlot and bring the animals to market directly from         the range (which is why their beef tends to be somewhat less         tender and somewhat more strongly flavored than the rather bland         stuff we’re used to in the U. S.).         How much time does the average beef cow spend in the feedlots,         Seetoh?         [With any luck, we'll now endure a long silence...] — – Rich Young (E-mail will be posted publicly as I see fit.  You have been warned.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

BACK UP HERE and consider this.  "ALL life comes from the sun".  You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh.  At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

Response:

: : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables.  When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel.   Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields  when its pickin’ time.  Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! Animals dont know any better to nest and live somewhere else. They see a nice field to nest up in, not knowing the horrors that lie ahead. Think of all the shrews, all the insects, and all the animal life that is destroyed when old macdonald plants and harvests. It is overwelming. Now, I have seen many farms and met many farmers, and I havent seen ONE farmer without a shotgun, or a gun that he hunts birds and animals with. I have seen many farms that use barb wire fences to keep out deer so they dont eat the vegetable products growing on the farm. If you look at some of those fences, you can see deer hair and   skin stuck to the barbs, and sometimes deer will get stuck in those fences and ultimatley die a slow and horrible death, all twisted and mangled with broken necks. And, most farmers have 22’s they use to pot-shoot groundchucks and groundhogs, to keep them from eating the vegetable products they are growing. Not a pretty picture I am painting here is it veggies?  rabbits are always a nusiance on farms, and hence, many farmers utilize cats and dogs to comb the fields, hoping these pets will keep the rabbit population down. A farmers field yeilding vegetable products is not a animal friendly place as you can see! But wait, theres more!   Many farmers growing vegetable product also use pesticides. These pesticides either annoy or kill tens of thousands of different insect animal life. Not only do the pesticides used kill insect life, when the rains come down, these pestecides wash off into farm creeks, ponds, and lakes. Ever seen a river next to some large corn or lettuce farms? The fish life is pathetic at best. catfish with tumors, and where bass used to live, suckers take over because the runoff has killed the oxygen levels, making it almost impossible for fish to survive. So, even eating corn kills fish!  Pesticide runoff is a common problem where farmers grow vegetable product. It causes the death of thousands of fish, and virtually destroys these freshwater ecosystems, killing turtles, ducks, kingfishers, herons, cranes, mink, otter, racoon, muskrat and so on. I think your getting the picture. How does that guilt-free salad taste now?   and think of the cows, deer, fox, coyote,and other large game that drink form these pesticide creeks and lakes! All so you can have your guilt-free vegetarian life style! How about them veggies! As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters.  It is as simple as that.——Muskie  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

: As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  Rangeland contains a wide : variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for : the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle).  So while it : may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding : the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding : animals. You are of course referring to buffaloes and wolves when you talk about animals not being killed to make room for cattle.  Then, there are the slash and burn tactics of Brazilian ranchers.  No animals being killed there, eh.  And let us not forget polluted water sources because of animal waste.  Since we are discussing animals, I won’t even go into how many people die early because of the garbage that is passed off on them as meat.                                  -Tom

Response:

Don’t forget all the pollution created when shipping those yummy veggies cross country. todd — "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer or wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do." Izaak Walton

Response:

200 acres?  Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)!  And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Not to mention all the corn and wheat that died so that we could live.  Don’t discount them;  they’re a sight more alive than rocks and minerals, after all.   Just think;  if redwood trees were a culinary treat,  them environmentalists and vegetarians would have a whole new battle to fight. Not that I distance myself from those particular causes;  I’m simply posing as the polemic. Cheers, Jen

Response:

Question:

   I am planning to go up to the west branch of the Ausable around May16th. My concern was what the water level is like and if there has been any fly hatches, per se, I am planning on fishing the trophy section for a day or 2, then try my luck below the damn.     Last year I was up this same time of year and did very well with Dark Hendricksons, and Wolly Buggers, but last year we had much less snow and rain.      Any information on conditions and such would be greatly appreciated.      Thanks.

Response:

   I am planning to go up to the west branch of the Ausable around May16th. My concern was what the water level is like and if there has been any fly hatches, per se, I am planning on fishing the trophy section for a day or

FYI it snowed in the Adirondacks the morning of May 12: not much accumulation but it accumulated…. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME

Response:

Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman.

Hi Tim, Kauffman’s fly tying books are each devoted exclusively to either dries or nymphs – your local library is correct. He is the author of a pattern "directory" that includes both dries and nymphs entitled "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants". Best,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

Response:

Tim, Try www.amazon.com — Donn Westervelt 72633,342 CIS

Response:

: Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a : beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet : flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my : local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by : Mr. Kaufman. Yup.  He has a new dry fly book, and a revised version of his nymph book. When I had to choose two (ONLY TWO) books on tying flies, to learn from, these were the two.  The illustrations are in color, and are very clear…with tricky points clearly described.  He discusses standard techniques fully.  The patterns are laid out in a "progressive" order so that you can learn quite a bit by tying each pattern in order (I’m about 2/3 of the way through both books).  Or you can jump around to your favorite pattern.  There’s a pattern directory in the back, listing many patterns not covered in the text WITH color PICTURES.  Also, each chapter has a little one or two page story having something to do with that pattern.  ALSO, there are excellent discussions of materials and tools. I now own FIVE books on fly tying: Talleur’s intro book (for my son), two books of patterns, and Kaufman’s two newer books. I strongly recommend these two books for anyone learning to tie flies. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

Response:

Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME

Here’s a list of Randall Kaufmann’s books (I think it’s complete): American Nymph Fly Tying Manual (1975) Bonefishing with a Fly (1992) *The Fly Tyers Nymph Manual (1986) *Tying Dry Flies (1992) (there is also a revised edition) *Tying Nymphs (1992)         *= in-print Andy   A. M. Rapach–Angling Books Rare, Collectible & Used Angling      Books Bought and Sold <A HREF="http://www.westol.com/~andmr/fishbks"</A

Response:

Randall Kaufmann has authored or coauthored several books covering fly tying and fly fishing for a variety of species. I think two books best suited for the beginning or advanced tyer are; Tying Nymphs, and Tying Dries. Randall is an excellent tier or tyer and has a gift of concise, easily understood writing. Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

Response:

I got my first book on fly tying from the Federation of Fly Fishers. It is called an Introduction to Fly Tying by Al Beatty and Bob Lay. It only cost $2.00 plus S&H. I have since purchased a couple of videos by Al and they were really detailed. I don’t have his phone number but he often posts to this group. Stumbling along the fly fishing stream Ed

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone recommended Randall Kaufman’s books as good reference material for a beginner.  I was under the impression that he has a book with both dry and wet flys.  Does anyone know if such a book exists (it doesn’t, according to my local library)? I would be interested in knowing the title of any/all books by Mr. Kaufman. Tim Obrey/ME Here’s a list of Randall Kaufmann’s books (I think it’s complete): American Nymph Fly Tying Manual (1975) Bonefishing with a Fly (1992) *The Fly Tyers Nymph Manual (1986) *Tying Dry Flies (1992) (there is also a revised edition) *Tying Nymphs (1992)    *= in-print Andy  A. M. Rapach–Angling Books Rare, Collectible & Used Angling     Books Bought and Sold <A HREF="http://www.westol.com/~andmr/fishbks"</A

Add to the list: Lake Fishing with a Fly (1984) (co-authored with Ron Cordes) Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants (1995) Tight lines Jay Whitworth

Response:

Question:

I’m hoping someone out there can help me convert a Medalist 1494 over to work for a left-handed person. I was lead to believe it possible. The reel didn’t come with any instructions. Do I just flip over the plastic ring that the drag rubs against? The two sides have a different # of click grooves on each side but this does seem to be the only way to reverse the drag. Do I also move the line guides? If anyone was a telephone # for Pflueger/Shakespeare please post. Thanks Don B.

Response:

I’m hoping someone out there can help me convert a Medalist 1494 over to work for a left-handed person. I was lead to believe it possible. The reel didn’t come with any instructions. Do I just flip over the plastic ring that the drag rubs against? The two sides have a different # of click grooves on each side but this does seem to be the only way to reverse the drag. Do I also move the line guides? If anyone was a telephone # for Pflueger/Shakespeare please post. Thanks Don B.

Yup, just flip that litle plastic ring over and you’re in business. You can also reverse the line guide, but to me it’s a pain in the butt so I usually don’t bother (there’s always ONE little screw that won’t budge )

Response:

Yes, just take out the two small screws (don’t lose them!), and turn over the disc.  There is a spring loaded gizzy that will pop out when you remove the disc.  So, lift it slowly.  Turn the disc over, postion over the screw holes, and tighten.  Changing the line guard is difficult, but I believe it is necessary.  The guard is there for a purpose, to protect the main body of the reel, and it really doesn’t take too long.  Good luck.  Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters Orvis Shop, Bozeman, MT

Response:

I had tried and failed to convert my reel so I did the only reasonable thing, I went to the local fly shop and and asked for help.  I’ve been fly fishing for only one year, but I have found that the fellows who run fly shops are extremely helpful.  Of course, you will want to return the favor, especially if it was free, and buy a few flies — even if you don’t need any! Bob Jones

Response:

(Spin4trout) says: I’m hoping someone out there can help me convert a Medalist 1494 over to work for a left-handed person. I was lead to believe it possible. The reel didn’t come with any instructions.

Has there been a change in the way Mealists are fabricated?  I thought that the always came for left-handed people.  I have always changed to right hand operation.  That is, I hold the rod in my right hand for casting, line in my left hand, and when it comes to actually winding it in, doing so with my left hand.  I do not switch hands between casting and winding. Way back when, Neal Taylor mentioned that, by happenstance, the first two reel makers were left handed and that is why actual left-handed reels are called right-handed. Further edification will be appreciated.

Response:

(BillyFish) writes: Has there been a change in the way Mealists are fabricated?  I thought that the always came for left-handed people.  I have always changed to right hand operation.  That is, I hold the rod in my right hand for casting, line in my left hand, and when it comes to actually winding it in, doing so with my left hand.  I do not switch hands between casting and winding.

Right hand wind means you turn the handle with your right hand.  Left hand retrieve means you retrieve with your left hand.  The traditional way for a right hander to fish was to cast with the right hand, then switch the rod to the left hand and retrieve with the right hand also.  Now most right handers retrieve with their left hand probably because they either spincast first.  It doesn’t really matter, just different strokes for different folks.                                                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (BillyFish) writes: Has there been a change in the way Mealists are fabricated?  I thought that the always came for left-handed people.  I have always changed to right hand operation.  That is, I hold the rod in my right hand for casting, line in my left hand, and when it comes to actually winding it in, doing so with my left hand.  I do not switch hands between casting and winding. Right hand wind means you turn the handle with your right hand.  Left hand retrieve means you retrieve with your left hand.  The traditional way for a right hander to fish was to cast with the right hand, then switch the rod to the left hand and retrieve with the right hand also.  Now most right handers retrieve with their left hand probably because they either spincast first.  It doesn’t really matter, just different strokes for different folks.                                                             Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Thanks for the help from everyone. I should have said I had a USED reel that needed to be un-converted. Like Dan said above I got started with spinning and I don’t switch hands. Just lucky to be left-handed and glad you righties flip-flop hands. I now have the reel back to "normal". I still wonder why they made the two sides with different hole patterns?   Oh, well. Life’s full of questions. Is there left-handed whirling disease? Or do all the fish swin circles in the same direction? <G PLEASE no responses to that one. Don B.

Response:

(Spin4trout) writes: I now have the reel back to "normal". I still wonder why they made the two sides with different hole patterns?  

Hey Don, The hole patterns are different because Pflueger never originally expected the reel to be converted to left hand retrieve.  Left hand retrieve works ok on the converted reel, but the click sounds funny. The Japanese are manufacturing the Pflueger now and it’s one of the few things they don’t do well.  Still works, but the old US models work better, albeit without an exposed rim.                                                    Dan

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I and several others noticed there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could spend on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagellation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)? Few things get my burner going like the guardian of holy secrets of fly   fishing. When I graduated to a Fenwick Eagle rod, Berkly reel and a pair of Redball waders, I braved the Yellowstone.  I didn’t have a clue.  Talk about being intimidated.  Time was precious and I needed to know what and how to fish it.  So I went up to a guy and asked.  He eyeballed me up and down, gave me that "oooooh, what a big spender you are" look, and went back to tying on his fly without a word." Maybe that is the problem, you think there are "holy secrets of flyfishing", a magic grail that is a substitute for personal observation and experience. Maybe the gentleman on the Yellowstone was giving you his "oooooh no, another dude who thinks his time is too precious to do his homework and acquire the necessary skills before coming here" look.

Well, I guess we got each other pegged.  I never went and got my flyfishing Phd.  Hope I never do.

Response:

Charlie,     Do have kids… in their 20s now and they give others space on the stream… Learned fishing manners by age 10 or so.                 Prof. 8x  

Response:

   We all better polish our social skills if we are going to keep, pursuing this wonderful pass time.  I can remember fishing Grand Lake Stream, Slate Run and even the Madison when I was the only person in sight, those days are GONE. I miss them but I’m learning to adapt by:  fishing mostly during the week, fishing water that is difficult to wade and (difficult to boat sometimes) from a specialized water craft, discovering places that have solitude and good fly fishing for different fish (smallmouth bass being my favorite other fish, ounce for ounce fights as good as any trout I’ve ever met.)    And although I’m a loner in many ways I’ve enjoyed interacting with other fisherman as I’ve grown up.  In fact last week and weekend I was on the Halston in Tenn. and it was fairly busy (sulfurs in mid day and all that) and I was impressed with the courtesy and friendship displayed by the east Tenn. folks (Like why don’t you try that 20" brown he’s got me stumped !!)   You had to duck flying hardware on the weekend but the local fly fisherman were very nice. Hats off to them.                                           regards leo

Response:

: Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a : modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of : fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in : letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that : a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream : asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   Well, there you go.  Wanna talk sociology?  Most, not all, good streams are located in rural areas.  In rural areas, it is considered rude to *not* acknowledge the presence of another.  I know this is not true in the urban environment, but it is proper behavior on most streams.  (Unless there are bank to bank fisherfolk, and if that is the case, why are you there?) Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

For every jerk out there who ignores you there are a 100 who are willing to share what they know. Ignore the jerks and keep looking. Bill A.

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: asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   : that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and : inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with :                   :                                     Prof. 8x ‘ Hmmm, no kids, eh, Prof? :^) Charley

Response:

Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the space of others verbally if not physically.   Suggest that a number of you try bowling or perhaps joining a tractor pull fan club as those activities seem more in keeping with your ideas of appropriate streamside conduct.  Comradeship/fellowship involves more that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with the fish when I am in the stream less important that whatever it is you want to interrupt me with?  Do you exhibit the same rudeness to your associates or strangers in the office or at a cocktail party?                                       Prof. 8x

Response:

Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick

Hi, Rick. John Propp?  Nice guy.  I met him at Brown’s a year or two ago.  He said he built rods, but I had no idea he had a shop.  How’d I miss that?  Where is it at? Thanks, -Dick

Response:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I, and judging my most of the other responses, several others notice there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could of spent on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagelation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)?

Response:

[bandwidthectomy] : Now to take on your detractor: : I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living.  They : are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and : socially daunting to most.  I’ll bet they only bought the outlandishly : over priced flies to force you into a few seconds of hopeful conversation. Well put.  I can’t agree with Mike on this one, although it marks a first.  Guiding, like ffishing, is a career (or hobby) that should be built over years.  The good guide is always guiding and eventually he or she will be paid well for it.  And besides, you don’t just hang a sign up and declare yourself a guide worth hiring.  A bit like consulting…I had to give away a lot of free advice before anyone thought it worth paying for.  Same with teaching.  Should I simply ignore the poor students and focus on the ones I figure will succeed?  Many do, but I think not.  And for what it is worth, I think this is a good discussion.  I don’t want to wallow in sexist BS here, but I love a good sports shop.  Hang out and talk fishing with the guys.  Why does it matter what car one drives (to the shop, that is…I still say it is a goofball that drives a $30K car down a dusty, broken road and parks next to a stream.) : Yakima or the Silver Bow in Spokane.   Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

I have been looking for a good dependable fly-shop; however, I   have been warned against Kaufmans, as they were described as   being too uptight and impersonal. Not everybody. Talk to Rod. Steer clear of john hazen. he’s a wealth of information, but only willing to talk to big spenders or people who impress him that they know what they’re doing already. (I’ve fooled him a Sean Williams Student, Teacher, Angler Portland, Ore., USA

Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

Response:

Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  

You’re right. Apologies to john hazen You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".

Well, yes and no. I agree that "big spenders" is perjoritive, but I can think of several situations when a buyer will be laying out big bucks on a new system, or people going on one of the travel packages will be in the store. Often, this is someone new to fishing, who wants (deserves?) special attention to accompany the large purchase. At those times, I can forget about receiving any service. And maybe rightly so. However, although my criticisms might have been unfair or harsh, they are not far from the truth.  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

Now its your turn to be a bit more charitable.  My statements were intended for a new angler who needs advice from professionals like those at Kaufmann’s. I think unfair to call their shop staff snobbish, because I don’t think it is, even john hazel.  On the other hand, I have seen people get the short end of the stick while in there. John and the others aren’t there by accident