Question:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use

Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page. Scott

Response:

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page.

It is, but I’m not sure I could land a fish that way. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Cockroach Bay is a "good area."  Still relatively undisturbed.  Too shallow for many powerboats.  Rich in fish and birdlife. Also try the sandbar just north of the Cockroach Bay boat ramp and separating the outer mangrove shore from Tampa Bay.  I used to wedge a paddle into the sand and tie my canoe to it; then, walk/wade the bar, casting off the side that seemed likely to be most productive.  Got snook, trout, bonnethead shark, etc., there.  Very pleasant even when fish weren’t biting. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com

| Greetings All, | | I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers | in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m | considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m | thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area | between the Gandy and Skyway. | | Scott |

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area between the Gandy and Skyway. Scott

Response:

Question:

I usually take to wearing a Blaze Orange hat during this time of year.  I haven’t been shot at while fishing but did have a "road hunter" clip a branch off over my head when I walked out of our hunting cabin after lunch many years back. Anyway, as Walt pointed out, tis a grand season to be afield with the wee trouties my lads! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals. — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

Response:

That would likely draw fire in your direction! — Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Response:

I usually take to wearing a Blaze Orange hat during this time of year.  I haven’t been shot at while fishing but did have a "road hunter" clip a branch off over my head when I walked out of our hunting cabin after lunch many years back. Anyway, as Walt pointed out, tis a grand season to be afield with the wee trouties my lads! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Nor is it safe to hang laundry.  A woman was shot dead by a hunter while hanging her wash.  The hunter got off because she was wearing white gloves.  In other words – she was a whitetail deer and she should have known better. God save us from idiots with guns and apologist courts. Peter

Response:

This may not work, everybody is dear to someone. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals. — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Which, if you are dealing with a true bonehead, merely convinces them that you must be whitetail. Jon

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Isn’t this what PETA does? — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

A few years ago, fishing Penfield Reef for stripers.  Two guys come out with shotguns, one of them wades out a ways to start setting up decoys.  Some duck come flying by, his buddy starts shooting over his head.  I moseyed.  Told my friend further down the reef that if this guy would shoot over his friends head, he wouldn’t think twice about my safety.  Got my biggest bass on a fly (up to that time).  All in all a memorable day. — David Burnside "I’d like to dedicate this song to the girl in the third row with the yellow underwear." Jimi Hendrix Before you buy.

Response:

Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there. I have never noticed this personally but have had the occasional riverside arguement about it, is the colour of your clothing. Am I right in thinking in doesnt really matter to trout? Or  the trout dont find me a threat,…they most know me )

Response:

IMHO it makes no difference whether you wear orange or camo when fishing. Fish will see you no matter what you wear. The trick is to stay out of their line of site As for the bush, I much prefer wearing orange and missing the occasional shot(which might or might not be attributed to the colour of my clothing) than stand the chance of being popped off by some weekend warrior. Terry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there. I have never noticed this personally but have had the occasional riverside arguement about it, is the colour of your clothing. Am I right in thinking in doesnt really matter to trout? Or  the trout dont find me a threat,…they most know me )

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there.

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here.

From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price. — Charlie…

Response:

I figured it had to be somewhere far from here. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price. — Charlie…

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price.

Wouldn’t happen to know if Britney Spears, Mr. Suharto, or Esox are on the pricelist, wouldja? Wolfgang rethinking the recently stated position on hunting

Response:

Wouldn’t happen to know if Britney Spears, Mr. Suharto, or Esox are on the pricelist, wouldja?

Special order, I think. — Charlie…

Response:

I’m in South Africa and you can hunt in psychadelic pink if you like<g All you require is a twenty buck permit issued annually. You can only hunt in certain areas, but how you do it is entirely up to you. That, by the way excludes endangered species such as Rhino, for which you need a special permit. Most hunting is done on private land and the land owners generally make up there own rules. Terry Ps Hunting is not nearly as big here as in the States. Most of the serious hunting is in fact done in Namibia.

Response:

I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons. As I was driving down the road I began to realize I was heading into a killing zone. There were pickups parked everywhere…. deer hunters afield…. all in search of that last buck of the season. I turned off onto the old forest road that would lead me to the stretch of Wilsons I wanted to fish without much hope. Cool…. no trucks. I dressed out and rigged up and slid down the bank into Wilsons, spooking a little fish on the way in. I moved past his pool up to the next pool and was pleasantly surprised when a 10 inch brown nailed my adams parachute. I quickly released him and moved up the boulders to the next pool and was similarily rewarded. Way Cool… this is gonna be a good day. As I climbed the next boulder steppe, low and behold, all decked out in flourescent orange, is a hunter heading downstream my way. I snipped off my fly and waited for him, the fishing done. He told me that his friends had dropped him off at the top (2 miles above me) and were gonna pick him up later where I had parked. I asked him if he had seen any deer and he replied not a one….. I also noticed that he was very wet and dirty…. no doubt from hiking down Wilsons in rubber sole boots….. kinda made my day. Well, since the fish were down and I was obviously heading into a dangerous area without that cool orange vest and hat, I decided to book on out and find a place to fish where I had at least a 50/50 chance of survival. I drove up and over a few ridges to a high elevation small stream I fish on occasion, pretty sure there wouldn’t be any hunters there. I arrived on stream after a short hike and noticed the water, as with all streams in the area, was crystal clear and low and that there was ice and snow still abundant where the sun’s light couldn’t reach it. I started up and landed a few small browns and missed a few more. I arrived at one of Matt McCrayfish’s favorite pools and sat down and had a smoke…. contemplating how best to fish this pool. I tied on a fresh adams parachute, size 18, on 6x. I casted to the tail and hooked what I like to refer to as the guard fish…. the dang fish that will spook and run helter-skelter throughout the pool putting down all the bigger fish an in instant. I released him downstream and was primed for some more. I ended up with three more nice fish, one at a little over a foot. All browns. I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Nice story snipped, but…. Meanwhile, over on rec.hunting, Sam "Bubo" Summer writes, "I had the biggest buck of my life in my crosshairs, when all of a sudden, a sound such as can only be imagined spooks every critter on the East Coast.  For an instant, I was frozen, thinking what horrible creature might make such a noise, when I was shocked, relieved, and amused to hear fragments of speech with such words as "sonofabitch," "freezing." "neuticles off."  As the hunting was shot, I decided to pack it in and headed down.  I was surprised to run into a dripping wet dude in rubber pants full of water, some weird fishing pole in hand, using a dead duck’s assfeathers for bait.  These curious city dudes are a loopy group…." Glad you made it through the gauntlet alive, Walt. <G TC, R "You shore got a purdy mouth, thar, boy…" I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g

After which other words besides what Sam heard? <g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt

Response:

Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.

Had a surprising (and very minor) related incident just this afternoon.   I was in the woods behind my inlaws house cutting some firewood with two BILs and #1 son.   With the roar of chainsaws and concentration on what I was doing, I didn’t notice the two young hunters walk into our area.   The were unarmed, but decked out in lots of orange.   The oldest wasn’t far beyond teenage, and the kid looked to be about twelve. They had just stopped by out of courtesy to let us know they were in the area "over there".   No problem, thanks. Not being a hunter myself, it’s easy to stereotype the lot of ‘em as drunken buttheads (especially in my area).  It was great to see this level of courtesy & responsibility out of a couple "youngsters". Joe F.

Response:

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you say in this post, just disagreed with "If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault".  Blaze orange or no blaze orange it’s the hunter’s fault….not that it matters much to the shot person.      - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mine was not to assert that it was really one fault, but that the chances are much greater that one will be seen if they are wearing blaze orange. While it may be true that pedestrians have the right-of-way, it is just common sense to be observant of objects of great weigh and size, traveling at high speeds.  One may take comfort in knowing they were in the right, but death or sever injury is rarely a comfortable lifestyle. "My fault, your fault, it don’t matter.  Either way the boy dies."  (Some John Wayne movie) Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken

– "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

Mine was not to assert that it was really one fault, but that the chances are much greater that one will be seen if they are wearing blaze orange. While it may be true that pedestrians have the right-of-way, it is just common sense to be observant of objects of great weigh and size, traveling at high speeds.  One may take comfort in knowing they were in the right, but death or sever injury is rarely a comfortable lifestyle. "My fault, your fault, it don’t matter.  Either way the boy dies."  (Some John Wayne movie) Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange

Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

Nope no buck, no doe.  Such is life.  I’ve only been hunting seriously the last two years, and am 0-2. It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange, unless of course it was a hit.  In that case blaze orange only alerts the assassin to his target. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons. As I was driving down the road I began to realize I was heading into a killing zone. There were pickups parked everywhere…. deer hunters afield…. all in search of that last buck of the season. I turned off onto the old forest road that would lead me to the stretch of Wilsons I wanted to fish without much hope. Cool…. no trucks. I dressed out and rigged up and slid down the bank into Wilsons, spooking a little fish on the way in. I moved past his pool up to the next pool and was pleasantly surprised when a 10 inch brown nailed my adams parachute. I quickly released him and moved up the boulders to the next pool and was similarily rewarded. Way Cool… this is gonna be a good day. As I climbed the next boulder steppe, low and behold, all decked out in flourescent orange, is a hunter heading downstream my way. I snipped off my fly and waited for him, the fishing done. He told me that his friends had dropped him off at the top (2 miles above me) and were gonna pick him up later where I had parked. I asked him if he had seen any deer and he replied not a one….. I also noticed that he was very wet and dirty…. no doubt from hiking down Wilsons in rubber sole boots….. kinda made my day. Well, since the fish were down and I was obviously heading into a dangerous area without that cool orange vest and hat, I decided to book on out and find a place to fish where I had at least a 50/50 chance of survival. I drove up and over a few ridges to a high elevation small stream I fish on occasion, pretty sure there wouldn’t be any hunters there. I arrived on stream after a short hike and noticed the water, as with all streams in the area, was crystal clear and low and that there was ice and snow still abundant where the sun’s light couldn’t reach it. I started up and landed a few small browns and missed a few more. I arrived at one of Matt McCrayfish’s favorite pools and sat down and had a smoke…. contemplating how best to fish this pool. I tied on a fresh adams parachute, size 18, on 6x. I casted to the tail and hooked what I like to refer to as the guard fish…. the dang fish that will spook and run helter-skelter throughout the pool putting down all the bigger fish an in instant. I released him downstream and was primed for some more. I ended up with three more nice fish, one at a little over a foot. All browns. I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

I don’t like fishing during deer hunting either.  I fish in a river on a game preserve during hunting season. Ernie

I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons.

<nice trip report snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Walt

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Question:

A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia Any speling errors in this document are due to software bugs

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia

Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another.  Some forms very expensive.   I think it might still be in print.  Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii.  What a neat little bookstore he has.  I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html

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If you want to read a great book I recommend  " Earth Is Enough " by Harry Middleton or any other book by him .His books are not just about flyfishing but also life in general . I guarantee you will like them but try not to get too hooked , one of his books " The Starlight Creek Angling Society " is out of print and cost $500 . Try " On The Spline Of Time " also

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another.  Some forms very expensive.   I think it might still be in print.  Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii.  What a neat little bookstore he has.  I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html

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Question:

I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

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I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc )

I *really* like the Cortland uniform sink lines in the "super-sink" rates. Excellent for dredging while maintaining some semblance of contact with the fly. 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish.

Whatever floats your boat. I have full sinkers for my 5 weight rods, 7 weight rods, and 9 weight rods. I rarely use anything larger than the 5 for fresh water, the heavier ones are mostly for the salt, and the occasional pike trip… /daytripper

Response:

Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines.

George? Is dat you?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

Craig, I’ve had two full sink Cortlands and an SA.  They both perfomed as expected. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc )

depends on which sink-rate you are looking for.  fast sink or intermediate or somewhere in between.  besides the 2 companies you mention, if you have a local shop with rio lines give them a look, imo their selection of sinking lines blows away sa or cortland. 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish.

if most of your fishing is in lakes, i’d get the lines for the 5 wt. for lake fishing, look at one of the clear intermediate lines if a lot of your fishing is around the shallow margins of lakes. cb

Response:

Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. —

Thanks all , for your help, even you rw — Craig Montreal, Quebec Canada

Response:

Proper flyfishing is just not done with sinking lines. — Thanks all , for your help, even you rw — Craig Montreal, Quebec Canada

MrG. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html (shop site)   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks

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I use Scientific Angler but the Cortland should be just as good.  I would suggest you use the larger rod.  Most of the fishing with weighted line is for trolling large streamers or for casting out large nymphs into deep lake waters…more suited to the larger rod.         Dan in Quebec

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of buying a sinking line, but cannot afford any more trips to the Orvis shop I’m looking at the Cortland lines ( $38 CDN )  and the Scientific Anglers ( $46 CDN ) 1) Anyone have an opinion on these lines ? ( good / not so good , etc ) 2) I have 2 rods ( 5wt and 8wt ) Which one should I get the sinking line for ? I bought the 8wt for salmon ( floating lines only allowed ) but may start using it on some large still waters I fish. Thanks for you comments Craig Montreal,Quebec Canada

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Question:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

Boys will be boys will Be boys will be boys will be Men, and men will die.                               …Jay Jenks, boyhood pal now beyond the pale —                                                       -dnc-

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I had a subscription to WarmWater Flyfishing and after the first year I decided not to renew.Why?I found that the magazine was starting to get into the pattern of typical "bassin’" magazines.You know;slow and deep for winter bass,deadly patterns for early spring bluegills etc.The first few issues had my attention with articles on catching gar or peacock bass.After that there was too much redundancy.Other flyfishing magazines include enough articles on warm water flyfishing to fill the void.I like flyfishing magazines better than spinfisherman magazines because most of the time they don’t have that gonzo bass-pro attitude.W.W.Flyfishing seemed to me to be developing an identity crisis.Were all us flyfishing bass chasers really bassboat plug chuckers who had a desperate need to tie flies that looked and worked just as good as a spinnerbait and a plastic worm?I don’t think so. Tight Lines,Shawn

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys.

Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

I guess I will have to raise the price to seperate the men from the boys. Ernie

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In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.

Yep, gotta agree with this one.  Bought my Estwing straight claw nearly twenty years ago and have pounded more nails, recalcitrant boards, various impedimenta, and thumbs with it than I care to remember.  If all tools were made this well a whole lot of manufacturers would soon go out of business. Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

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Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing.

Nothing wrong with the people here, John. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater.

Mr. Smith firmly stated that he did know "the real deal" and he was even willing to bet his hammer on it. Thank you for setting the record straight. Now, back to the newsgroup.

Been here all along. — Ken Fortenberry

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I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine.

Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

I sure agree with that. Big Dale

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Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater. To those who liked and supported the magazine, my thanks. Now, back to the newsgroup. John Likakis

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Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

Your right. Perhaps I shouldn’t have directed my dissapointment so strongly at the publisher.  It is just that I am Interested in people with vision.  People who understand that the only differance between dreams and reality, is the making the dream, a reality. Still, I believe the decision to end Warm Water was premature.  At this point in history, the average person thinks that flyfishing is for trout only.  Warm Water Flyfishing magazine challenged that assumption directly.  Great ideas take time to bring into reality sometimes. I enjoy watching fishing shows when I get a chance.  A few years ago, you didn’t see that many flyfishing episodes let alone flyfishing for warm water species.  Since the advent of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine, I have been able to enjoy several episodes including warm water species. Fly fishing for carp?  Why not to long ago I watched an entire episode of Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh fly fishing for carp! They were calling it the *fresh water bonefish*.  Wow!  I credit people like John Likakis and his magazine, with stimulating the interest. Another reason I feel thet the decision was premature, is because the flyfishing industry, itself, was just beginning to wake up to the possibilities ( this was the point I was driving home in a previous post).  Warm water flyfishing has different tackle needs.  A magazine that broadened the market can only strengthen the industry. It’s too bad they didn’t wake up sooner.                                     Mike Smith

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Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.

Well, with friends like you and your Winston, Mr. Likakis sure as hell doesn’t need any enemies. — Ken Fortenberry

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 In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.

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In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson

well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.       Jim Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?

For feathers more suitable for bass and pike flies you should check out the feathers from Ewing Featherbirds inc. of Waterville,Ia.The last catalog I have MWflytying.com as another source for materials for tying bass flys. I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine. Big Dale                                                                      

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I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

I’m with you, Ken… In the immortal words of Mr. Class-Act himself… DON’T FEED THE TROLL!! –Steve

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, … I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.  I have been lurking here for quite some time, but it was not until I found that he was reading on the usenet that I have ever felt compelled to post anything on the usenet before.  This was my first time.      Yes, I do resent Abenaki’s (or perhaps more accuratly Rodale Press’s) decision to end publication of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine.  I love my sport deeply, and I have many thanks for people, like Mr. Likakis, who have been spreading the news that flyfishing is an all around sport.    My Winston 5wt and I have enjoyed many great experiances together on these wonderful Green Mountain streams.  But thanks to Mr. Likakis and Warm Water Flyfishing, my Sage 7wt and I am getting very well aquianted with these Green Mountain lakes and rivers.  And guess what?  I can’t wait for my first opportunity to lock into a carp on my fly rod.    Perhaps my 7wt won’t be enough. Maybe I should look into an 8wt.  It might be a good idea because I can use it for Pike also.  It could be that a 6wt would be just the thing for the White river.    It’s my suspicion, Mr. Fortenberry, that the decision to end this fine magazines publication, had less to do with lack of interest on the part of the public, and more to do with piss poor sales support by management.  It’s just another case of city bound account executives inability to see the green through the skyscrapers.  And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.    In the meantime, I think I will look into a Bauer reel to go along with that 8wt.  Also these feathers that I use for tying trout flys aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?                                  Mike Smith

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, …

I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill. — Ken Fortenberry

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… Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given.

If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries.

While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, nor do I have any resemblence to any mom you ever met.                                  Mike Smith

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Many thanks for the kind thoughts. Perhaps some other visionary publishing company might like to hire me! (Doesn’t seem real likely.) John Likakis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

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John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

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Question:

______ The only music that doesn’t insult fly fishing. Amen – George —

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:45:46 -0600, c…@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote: >In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra >Stoddart) wrote: >> In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >> mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >> >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >> >women out there in a simular situation? >> Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >> weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >> blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >> still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >> your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >> want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >> the marriage. >> — >>               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >>                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S. >  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need >answering.

It did not really require answering.  Of course their are women out there in similar circumstances >The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a >shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone >could find time!

Rat race?  Yes, it can be.  Which is why I shifted work goals.  Not so much money, but enough.  I have decided that the $28,000 car is not all that more uncomfortable than the $60,000 car.  I no longer have arguments with a peer group who spent much of their time stressed and unhappy.  Now, I actually have time to be with my wife and kids.  I can go fishing, play with my 3 dogs, talk to a friend instead of a business associate, and watch the bluejays fly about my yard. I think many of the problems that occur in marriages revolve around work.  A person must earn a living to eat and provide shelter. But I am thinking of a couple I saw a few weeks ago.  I was having lunch with my lawyer, a matter of my mother’s living will, and we were watching a couple at the next table.  About 30, I would say at a glance.  They spent the whole lunch rapidly trying to exchange information.  The kid’s schedule, day care problem, dentist appointment, etc.  Talked very quickly, glancing at watches often. They were interrupted from time to time by a beeper or cell phone call.  The food was very good but I don’t think they noticed.  At one point they bickered loudly over money.  I thought this was curious as both were dressed expensively in the latest style,  she was wearing a great deal of jewelry, and both had arrived, separately, in expensive cars. In comes another couple.  Man arrives in his work truck, a repairman of some type, jeans and flannel shirt a little worn.  Wife shows up in a Voyager, not new, with 3 kids.  All well but modestly dressed.  A family meeting for lunch.  Big thing for the kids.  They squealed and ran to Dad who grabbed them.  All sat and chatted about unimportant things.  You know, who had fell and skinned a knee, when could they go to the amusement park, etc.  While ordering their meal there was discussion about keeping it simple as mom didn’t want the price to be too high.  The mom and dad chatted quietly together while the kids ate,  couldn’t hear what they were saying but they were holding hands and exchanged small kisses several times. The first couple, glanced at the family a couple of times in annoyance, the children were happily loud.  And as the father passed there table at one point, I saw them both glance at his work boots which were well worn and needed some polish desparately. When the first couple got up to leave, they quickly pecked each other on the lips then walked, each in their own direction without glancing back at the other.  In a hurry.   My lawyer commented to me that he not once, in listening to their conversation, heard them actually talk to each other about each other. He told me that after lunch, he was cancelling some appointments.  He had decided he wanted to go home and see his wife.  No particular reason, just wanted to see her.  We have known each other for some time.  He commented that he still had an old flannel shirt in his closet and wondered if it still fit. Sometimes we create our own rat race. >   However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow >such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found >out in these extra marita romances, especially the women.

I don’t believe the person meant any scare tactic.  Just being realistic.  A very old and simple statement is ‘If you plan to play, you should plan to pay.’ True some people are not found out.  Others are.  But how much does a person want to gamble for some sex?  I love to have sex but there is only so far I would go for something which only lasts an hour or so. I remember one lady I met on a trip to Hawaii many years ago when I was single.  She had a minor role in a movie being filmed.  She was very beautiful and sexy…and she knew it.  Why she picked me I don’t know, I suspect that I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  Besides her looks, she was a very horny person and for three days, when she was not otherwise occupied we had sex at every opportunity and she had no inhibitions at all. The sex was fantastic.  I very much enjoyed it.  But after 3 days I changed my travel plans and left.  The problem was that I couldn’t stand the woman, except in bed.  I hated very time she spoke.  She was shallow, full of venom about others with whom she worked,  babbled on continuously about her hair and figure and how much time she had spent on them.  She complained about every nitpicking thing possible.  She told me repeatedly that I was a great lover but I was pretty sure that when she was away from me she probably told jokes about my pitiful efforts and shortcomings. Good sex wasn’t worth that much to me.  I flew to San Diego where I met a woman who was married, on a business trip, and lonely.  She was at the same hotel as I and wanted suggestions about things to see in San Diego.  I think she also wanted someone to talk with.  We spent quite some time here and there when she was not in meetings.  She was very easily impressed with the sights about town, bragged continuously about her husband and children.  Laughed as she told me about his many faults, which she considered cute.  Complained that she felt that she could be a better business woman if only she tried harder.  Dwelled sadly on the fact that she was overweight and was amazed that her husband didn’t seem to notice.  She confessed to me that she wished she was a better lover for her husband.  He never complained but she knew that her skills were poor.  She talked about this in depth one evening when she had too many drinks.  From the descriptions,  she had room for improvement. Too tipsy, we were talking in her room, she made it clear that she was both horny and interested in learning something new to surprise her husband with back home.  I put her off as gently as possible and instead gave her a back massage until she fell asleep.  She was embarassed the next day but I consoled her and took her to lunch before her plane left. I couldn’t take advantage of her.  It probably would not have harmed their marriage in any way.  I doubt that he would have ever known or suspected.  I rejected her offer for selfish reasons.  I found this woman so enormously sexy and arousing that I knew that if I had accepted her offer,  I would not have wanted to let her go again.  She would have had to reject me, and she would have after the sex no matter how much she might have enjoyed it,  because she had too many other good things back at home.  She would have gotten over it, my heart would have broken. This is a true story.  To this day I remember the second woman’s name and details.  I don’t remember the first woman’s name at all.  It has been 28 years. Great sex can be found in many places.  A great person is much harder to find. Just an opinion, Bob By the way,  I agree with the responder who expressed the opinion that extra marrital sex can be a workable solution, for some people, a very few, in a strong marriage.  If both partners are agreeable.  Without these things, you take your risks, and are fully deserving of the consequences.  Don’t complain here.  Try ALT.DIVORCE.I-DESERVE-THIS.OUCH.OUCH.OUCH or the ever popular alt.spurt.spurt.sigh.how-long-should-i-wait-before-leaving

Response:

In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stoddart) wrote: > In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, > mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and > >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married > >women out there in a simular situation? > Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few > weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can > blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you > still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with > your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you > want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive > the marriage. > — >               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need answering. The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone could find time!    However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found out in these extra marita romances, especially the women. — visit me @ http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html

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>But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my >favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often >than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of >masturbation?

I love how to-the-point you are. heh…yeah, if his urges cannot be met by masturbation then they obviously extend further than the sex drive – it could mean he has deep seated real problems with the marriage, or there has been a decrease in intimacy and not just sex. MG

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On 12 Apr 1997 08:35:22 GMT, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra Stoddart) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >>kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >>women out there in a simular situation? >Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >the marriage. >– >              Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

You are correct IMHO. My first response to this post included no such alternative. Masturbation is my alternative solution if nothing else can be worked out to increase desire on her part.  Simply because the chances of severe problems with the other answer are so great.  And I have found that there are too many people who, once they hear such an alternative,  immediately jump into it as a solution. I have known a few couples for which it worked.  Where a wife or husband sought additonal sex outside the marriage.  In these cases, where it worked,  it was always an agreement between partners.  And, in the situations that I am aware of,  the problem was due to a difference in sex drives.  Not a matter of simple dissatisfaction with performance or effort. For instance one friend of mine was very happily married to a lady who enjoyed sex when she was in the mood.  Unfortunately, for him,  once a month was enough for her.  The once a month kept her happy, satisfied her needs and she was very happy with his performance. She was well aware that he wanted more and would cooperate in his need out of love for him.  However, she was well aware that although he didn’t complain,  sex was not the same when one partner is merely cooperating. In the end, she solved the problem.  She found a willing female friend and arranged the match and meetings.  Who this female friend was and the motivation for her, I don’t know, I never asked,  I felt that it was not my business.  Although I probably would have been told if I asked.  We were very good friends. This sort of thing is not the usual ‘cheating’ game. However, although I am in sort of the same circumstance with my wife who has a disability.  I do not find, personally, that such an arrangement is an acceptable one.  Although, to be frank, she has brought up the subject and told me she would understand.  I can’t do it.  I love her very much and don’t want to have the feelings with another women that I share with my wife.  I know that inevitably my emotions would be split.  I don’t enjoy sex without emotional exchange. This would not cause me to feel less for my wife. But I don’t want to share my emotions, at that level, with anyone else.  My own decision.  Not necessarily the only right one for someone else. Just my thoughts, Bob

Response:

In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive the marriage. —               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

Response:

On 11 Apr 1997 05:00:12 GMT, "mail.earthlink.net" <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

I could not pass this up without a comment. Is your marriage based only on sex? My wife is partially disabled and although she is capable of enjoying sex, her need for it is much diminished and the pain caused by the muscle contractions when she climaxes cause her to limit this activity. But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of masturbation? Bob

Response:

I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married women out there in a simular situation?

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Question:

I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?   Thanks for any info. Dave Coates — David J. Coates, Ph.D., P.E.      Tel: (310) 276-9070 Metallurgical Engineer            Fax: (310) 276-9390

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I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?  

Hi Dave Hunters carry thePearsall’s and also some really great Japanese silk as well.  Call them at 800-331-8558, the silk is on page #10. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Path: news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds. ans.net!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.inter netmci.com!in3.uu.net!nntp.wwwi.com!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!lafn.org !NewsWatcher!user X-Nntp-Posting-Host: 192.168.14.21 Organization: Los Angeles Free-Net Lines: 13 I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?   Thanks for any info. Dave Coates — David J. Coates, Ph.D., P.E.      Tel: (310) 276-9070 Metallurgical Engineer            Fax: (310) 276-9390

Dave – with A 310 Area code, you’re in the Santa Monica Arewa, right?? Try Bob Marriott’s in Fullerton- 800-535-6633 for orders and 714-525-1827 for general info. Another source is Hunter’s in New Hampshire…800-331-8558 and there are a lot of others too. Larry #:)#

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Sorry I don’t have the catalog with me, but Blue Ribbon Fly Fishing in West Yellowstone carries the silk you’re looking for. Tight Lines, rd

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National Feather-Craft Co. in St. Louis 1-800-659-1707

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source? Hi Dave Hunters carry thePearsall’s and also some really great Japanese silk as well.  Call them at 800-331-8558, the silk is on page #10. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

I have personally been down this road before! I have even been in Hunter’s looking for Pearsall’s to no avail. They are only 30 minutes from my house! The problem with the Japanese silk is that it is just fine for tying Salmon flies, but its not as good for tying wets. I tried every source I could find in this area and checked every catalogue I had. And thats a good number! Seems as though most places in the US do not carry this type of silk in the shop. They claim they cannot get rid of it. Either they won’t order in the amount you want or they want you to buy 500 spools. I did find some at the virtual fly shop, but they didn’t have any in stock. Finally, after months of looking around I found a guy at a company called Waters West that ordered it for me in the amount a normal person could buy. He was realy great to deal with and I’d recommend that you call him. His name is Dave Steinbaugh. His number is 1-800-347-4999. He guides out in Yellowstone at this time of year, but I’ve included the numbers I have for him so you should be able to track him down yourself. Waters West 1-360-417-0937(Oct thru Mid May)        1-406-646-9442(Mid May thru Sept) P.O.Box 3241                            P.O.Box 830 Port Angeles, WA 98362                  West Yellowstone, MT 59758 I can’t recommend this guy any higher. He went out of his way to order the silks for me and didn’t charge a high price. As a matter of fact, this price worked out cheaper than the virtual fly shop. Good Luck. Steve — Steven Grainger          | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology           | 10 ELizabeth Drive       | Chelmsford, MA.          |

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Question:

Can anyone who fishes the Westfield River in Massachusetts give me some information on where to fish the river and access points? Thanks in advance—-Bob

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Can anyone who fishes the Westfield River in Massachusetts give me some information on where to fish the river and access points?

Some of the better flyfishing can be had below Chesterfield Gorge on the East Branch. The waters from the Gorge downstream to the Knightville Dam (~7 miles?) is all C&R/Artificials only. Take Rt. 112 north from Rt 20 in Huntington to Rt 143 west, then keep an eye out for the Gorge parking lot/access road. You can drive ~ a mile down a dirt road below the gorge to a gate, or leave your car in the lot at the top of the dirt road (last time I was there it cost $1 for the whole day). Lots of deep pools broken up by long runs. Fish this early in the season as it’ll warm up by mid-June… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < <     "What doesn’t kill you…will hurt like heck!"     < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Question:

Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue? Thanks, Larry Lincoln, NE   USA "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes."    Thoreau

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Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue?

Bummer, got my answer in the mail today.  8wt. Journal has ceased publication.  John Likakis, 8wt. Journal’s editor, is the new editor of American Angler.  Subscribers have the option of fulfilling their 8wt. Journal subscription with American Angler, Flyer Tyer or Saltwater Fly Fishing. Larry

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