Question:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

At the Maine Clave in September, the Lakewood Camps staff prepared sack lunches for people who didn’t want to interrupt their fishing at mealtime. I recently found the remains of a stick of cheese from one of those lunches in the bottom of one of the front pockets of my vest. I left it there for good luck. –Steve

Response:

Pretty much was Ken has said, except for the camera.  My most important tool is a knot tying tool, although if I lost it I could use my hemostats to tie the clinch knots. I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white.   Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

"Peter Charles" wrote Different fish  species usually means different stuff but the constants are: snip Peter

Nice list Peter, I also carry: Albolene Tippet material Extra leaders antiseptic Ernie

Response:

two condoms, a wine opener, a yashica t4super, two rolls of film (one b&w, one 400asa fuji print), and a waterproof copy of the kama sutra.

Two, huh? Who’s the other guy? –Steve

Response:

I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white.

Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

Response:

frog fanny What’s a frog’s ass doin in your vest? Seriously though, what is it?

Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". I first learned of it this summer from Mary Dorsey’s guide friend who gave me a couple of his "Ray Charles Specials", (even a blind guy could catch a fish on this fly , that had been brushed with this stuff. I was REALLY impressed with it and said so here on ROFF. Turns out Charlie Wilson had discovered this stuff a long time ago and was so impressed he bought a whole case, just in case they ever went out of business, so he sent me a bottle. It’s essentially a very fine powder that you apply with a brush to work it into the dubbing. Highly recommended. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white. "Zimbo" wrote … Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

Zimbo, In some parts of the country there is a drifting caddis that spins a white line which helps it to drift.  A white tippet resembles this line. Ernie

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

I’m a bit of a minimalist, but here goes… – flies (usually in two small boxes) – extra tippet – license – floatant – hemostat – sunglasses – trash bag (for carrying out garbage left by other fishermen) Don’t have a vest, usually use a generic fanny-pack.      - Ken

Response:

Zimbo writes: I also carry a stick of "Mean streak", a magic marker for coloring the last 12 – 16 inches of tippet white. Interesting. I’ve never heard of doing something like that. I’m assuming that’s to make the tippet more invisible when fishing dry flies, no? Is that for mono tippet or only for flouro? I thought the darker colors were more invisible so this is news to me. –Steve

No.  It is used to color the tippet (kind doesn’t matter) to mock the thread of net making caddis worms.  It is a neat trick used on the Rapid and other rivers in Maine.  It works with the green rock worm.  Sometimes the worms (larva) are washed away from their rock, but hold on, not unlike a spider dangling from his web.  Read Gary LaFontaine’sCaddisflies. Dave L.

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

in my wader pocket- -spool or 2 of maxima -license -hook file tucked inside front of wader (or if raining in rain jacket pockets)- -one flybox -one shooting head wallet for holding sink-tips vests suck,<G chris

Response:

Nice list Peter, I also carry: Albolene Tippet material Extra leaders antiseptic Ernie

I’ll be you carry yourself very well, Ernie. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

: Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". : It’s essentially a very fine powder that you apply with a : brush to work it into the dubbing. Highly recommended. So is it bait or what?  ;-) You never actually say what double duties it performs… JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

There’s no rule that says you need to fill them. What I carry depends on where I’m fishing. For local waters or waters where I think I know what to expect, I have a somewhat minimal fishing shirt I use that has only two pockets. I carry floatant, nippers, and two spools of tippet. I carry two small flies boxes.  Inside of one of the boxes there is some Biostrike strike ind. and a few small weights in addition to flies. I ALWAYS carry a pair of reading glasses. On waters I’m not familiar with, I carry a fully loaded vest but the main difference is more flies. I do try and avoid this because I find a fully loaded vest a pain. Willi

Response:

: Frog’s Fanny is a self-described "Double Duty Fly Treatment". … You never actually say what double duties it performs…

Blurb straight off the bottle; … Frog’s Fanny is not only the best dry fly floatant that you will ever use, now you can really "Match the Hatch" by coating your nymphs with Frog’s Fanny. It will put an air bubble around them that looks exactly like an emerging insect. It floats a dry fly better than anything I’ve ever used if brushed into the dubbing thoroughly, can’t vouch for the "air bubble around the nymph" claim. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

good inventory snipped<

This shows me that I don’t fish often enough.   To give the detailed inventory Ken offers, I’d have to get out my vest and check. I never carry my sunglasses in my vest, they stay on a neck cord.   I don’t usually carry a compass, but I have taken a small GPS on occasion.   Never needed a tape measure (yet).   Don’t carry a Leatherman tool, but have a nifty little pair of curved needlenose pliers. All in all, I carry much the same stuff as Ken, except in my upper right outside pocket are some strike indicators. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR.<

ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I’ll add ; a small pen lite flashlight, a cheap pair of reading glasses chap stick pocket knife – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with? Inside pockets (5): first aid kit leatherman tool map & compass car keys Outside vest: patch of amadou nipper on a retractable cord hemostat foam fly patch (can’t get barbless hooks to stay on a wool patch) hook hone Upper right pockets (2): leader wallet with spare leaders & licenses floatant frog fanny Orvis dessicant Upper left pockets (2): camera spools of tippet (usually 4X, 5X, 6X for trout) Lower right pockets (2): sunglasses whisky flask fly box Lower left pockets (3): stream thermometer (used to be outside next to hook hone but I lost too many) fly box red Mucilin patch of Cortland line cleaner container of assorted weights (rarely used tape measure Back of vest (two compartments): lunch water bottle rain jacket and a brand new landing net from Float ‘n Fish. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR.

         Harry Mason     www.Troutflies.com               *** "Quality Flies for a Trout’s Eyes"

Response:

Different fish  species usually means different stuff but the constants are: nippers hemostat hook sharpener magnet-needle-nailknot thingie key to the back of my truck flashlight thermometer bandaids compass matches splitshot strike indicator putty spare sunglasses also usually carry a small camera and a flask of the good stuff Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

frog fanny

What’s a frog’s ass doin in your vest? Seriously though, what is it?

Response:

At first you just put in a few things that you need and before you know it you don’t have any room left. Ernie "TimeRanger" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

Response:

On a typical day of fishing -, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?

        two condoms, a wine opener, a yashica t4super, two rolls of film (one b&w, one 400asa fuji print), and a waterproof copy of the kama sutra. wayno

Response:

… My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

I use an LL Bean chest pack and usually carry the following: Outside: Albolene Nippers Hemostat Flashlight Insect repellent Leader straightener Mesh Pockets: Tippet Material, sizes depending on stream and time of year, Inside: Goose neck light Compass Reading glasses Sunglasses Extra leaders More tippet material Dessicant 1-1/2" square magnet(instead of fleece patch) Weights Small needle nose pliers Car key Wallet containing licenses Thermometer Hook hone Line dressing Backstrap: Maps (if needed) Spare reel spool w/line Bandana Toilet Paper Wader patch Spare glasses Lunch, light jacket, or rain gear (if needed) In very hot weather, I use a mesh backstrap which carries nothing, so all of the above would be eliminated. Again, good idea for a thread. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

In my vest (just going by memory here) Inside Pockets Left Side Leader Wallet (3 packs of 10′ 5x & 7.5" 6x leader. One fast sinking leader) Extra Spool of 5x, 6x tippet Pewter Flask (filled with either Captain Morgan, Talisker or Tequila) Miniature Flashlight Inside Pockets Right Side Eyeglasses Fishing License Bottom Left Outside Pockets Two foam fly boxes – one nymph/emergers, one dry fly Bottom Right Outside Pockets Midge Fly box David’s  Sunflower Seeds (Salsa or Ranch) Middle Outside Pocket Leatherman Tool Spyderco Pocket Knife Top Outside Pocket Split shot Strike Indicators (Yarn and Foam) Outside D-ring left side – Fly floatant – Albolene Outside Right side – Old metal shower curtain ring – holds two spools of tippet Zinger with Snips for tippet Back zippered section – If weather looks bad – store my rain jacket in there.  If it is good weather, will store extra beers. Depending on time of year, In the bottom of it, carry my fingerless wool gloves Back outside D-ring – Net Wear a fanny pack for lower back support, wade belt Outside Pocket Safewater Bottle (In a pinch will also hold 3 beers and a small sandwich) Inside chest waders pocket – On the San Juan, carried my digital camera in a Ziploc freezer sandwich bag bc. — I don’t care who you are, you are not walking on the water while I’m fishing.

Response:

On a typical day of fishing – say on the recent San Juan Clave, what are the things in your vest/chest pack that you would not be without (besides flies)?  My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with? — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

… My vest (el cheapo Wally World special) has about 20 different pockets and an assortment of D-rings.  What sort of goodies do *you* fill these pockets with?

Inside pockets (5): first aid kit leatherman tool map & compass car keys Outside vest: patch of amadou nipper on a retractable cord hemostat foam fly patch (can’t get barbless hooks to stay on a wool patch) hook hone Upper right pockets (2): leader wallet with spare leaders & licenses floatant frog fanny Orvis dessicant Upper left pockets (2): camera spools of tippet (usually 4X, 5X, 6X for trout) Lower right pockets (2): sunglasses whisky flask fly box Lower left pockets (3): stream thermometer (used to be outside next to hook hone but I lost too many) fly box red Mucilin patch of Cortland line cleaner container of assorted weights (rarely used tape measure Back of vest (two compartments): lunch water bottle rain jacket and a brand new landing net from Float ‘n Fish. Nice idea for a thread, thanks TR. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

I’ve noticed that tippit and leaders are sold in two different ratings.  They are either given a pound rating or an X rating.  Does anybody have a conversion table for these different rating methods. I normally use a 2 or 3 lb. tippit for trout and a 4 or 5 lb. tippet for bass. I’d sure like to be able to see an X rating and know what the pound equivilant is, or the other way around. Thanks, Bob

Response:

Hi Bob and all you ROFFers out there, Bob, the pound test is suppose to be the breaking strength of the line and ‘X’ is relating to the diameter of the line. 0x = 0.011" 1x = 0.010" 2x = 0.009" 3x = 0.008" 4x = 0.007" 5x = 0.006" 6x = 0.005" 7x = 0.004" Old 6x tippet 30 years ago was 1 3/4 pound test. Now it is over 3 pound test? I think it is a good idea to go by diameter rather than pound test in relating to fly size or fishing conditions  because it is a constant. The manufacturer can put anything on the spool they want to as far as pound test goes unless it is special IGFA rated line. For trout, we use mostly 5x and 6x for tippet on dry flies around here in Nor Cal. Our most popular and average size dry fly is a #14. For wet flies/nymphs for trout we use mostly 3x, 4x and 5x depending on the fly size and fishing conditions. Again, our most popular, best selling and most useful size nymph is a #14. Early season we might use larger #6/8/10 nymph with a 3x tippet. Most of the time anglers are using #14s with 4x and then in late summer and on spring creeks the average is a #16 with 5x and smaller. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that tippit and leaders are sold in two different ratings. They are either given a pound rating or an X rating.  Does anybody have a conversion table for these different rating methods. I normally use a 2 or 3 lb. tippit for trout and a 4 or 5 lb. tippet for bass. I’d sure like to be able to see an X rating and know what the pound equivilant is, or the other way around. Thanks, Bob

Response:

The biggest problem represented by leader diametres that are too thick is the impact the thick leaders have on the flies drift.

____  I had said this Tony.  That is why I opt for finer leaders.  It is a distinct advantage and does fool more fish.  Especially if your knots are tight and perfect. Mr. G. I too opt for as fine a leader as I can see, and there-in lies a problem. These 50 year old eyes have been tormented by the sun for too long, so tying tight and perfect knots, is an oxymoron. Probably why in recent times I have opted for a full leader length, with no taper. I do not know if Drennon is available in the US, but I have found it to have little or no ‘line flash’, and is very abrasion resistant. The only problem I have found is that it has little stretch, so if you are on a reasonable fish, say around five or six pound or more, you have to be really careful on the strike, or you will pop the leader. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

 snipped to save room: The biggest problem represented by leader diametres that are too thick is the impact the thick leaders have on the flies drift.

____  I had said this Tony.  That is why I opt for finer leaders.  It is a distinct advantage and does fool more fish.  Especially if your knots are tight and perfect. Mr. G. http://www.gink.com/gg_knotperfect.html

Response:

Hi Tony, I will tell Joe Shirshac that you are catching some good ones. Joe is taking a group of our customers to your area in May to fish with Tim McCarthy again. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The line diametre and kilo rating is a problem when you add in very thin lines from Europe such as Drennon – primarily developed for chasing carp. The visibility thing in my experience is not as big a problem as some may think. A fish simply cannot connect the fact that the line is connected to the fly, and even if it does  you asking for us to believe the fish then somehow surmises the line represents some form of danger. To believe that moves us into the realm of anthropomorphism. And yes I have caught trout on black leaders. The biggest problem represented by leader diametres that are too thick is the impact the thick leaders have on the flies drift. By the way Bill K, the fishing is very good right now, in the North Island. Some wonderful rainbows and browns being taken in the Central North Island lakes and rivers. — Tony Bishop  Taupo, New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The line diametre and kilo rating is a problem when you add in very thin lines from Europe such as Drennon – primarily developed for chasing carp. The visibility thing in my experience is not as big a problem as some may think. A fish simply cannot connect the fact that the line is connected to the fly, and even if it does  you asking for us to believe the fish then somehow surmises the line represents some form of danger. To believe that moves us into the realm of anthropomorphism. And yes I have caught trout on black leaders. The biggest problem represented by leader diametres that are too thick is the impact the thick leaders have on the flies drift. By the way Bill K, the fishing is very good right now, in the North Island. Some wonderful rainbows and browns being taken in the Central North Island lakes and rivers. — Tony Bishop  Taupo, New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

ever fished over hard hitted waters such as found in certain places on this planet Tony? All forms of life can be conditioned to associate danger to some definite stimulus.  A leader line pattern that leads to a fly, recognized by a free rising trout that has been fooled and released many times does in fact, associate that ‘bug’ with a connection to danger.  I remember two particular free risers that you could not fool in a hundred years Tony because of the leader connection.  They would literally lift your fly upon their noses, lower it back into the water, swim to the right or left an inch or so and then take a natural. So in response to your question, yes!  There is proven, distinct connection to the realm of anthropomorphism.  This factor does not require logic but only based on conditioned reflex reactions due to EXPERIENCE.  It doesn’t necessarily need to be attributed to humans, but naturally, humans can be conditioned to respond to reflex experiences Tony. The eye of a trout is one of the better seeing mechanisms in the animal kingdom.  Of course there are better ones but underwater, the trout is indeed visually armed to the max! LOL! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

The line diametre and kilo rating is a problem when you add in very thin lines from Europe such as Drennon – primarily developed for chasing carp. The visibility thing in my experience is not as big a problem as some may think. A fish simply cannot connect the fact that the line is connected to the fly, and even if it does  you asking for us to believe the fish then somehow surmises the line represents some form of danger. To believe that moves us into the realm of anthropomorphism. And yes I have caught trout on black leaders. The biggest problem represented by leader diametres that are too thick is the impact the thick leaders have on the flies drift. By the way Bill K, the fishing is very good right now, in the North Island. Some wonderful rainbows and browns being taken in the Central North Island lakes and rivers. — Tony Bishop  Taupo, New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Bob and all you ROFFers out there, Bob, the pound test is suppose to be the breaking strength of the line and ‘X’ is relating to the diameter of the line. 0x = 0.011" 1x = 0.010" 2x = 0.009" 3x = 0.008" 4x = 0.007" 5x = 0.006" 6x = 0.005" 7x = 0.004" Old 6x tippet 30 years ago was 1 3/4 pound test. Now it is over 3 pound test? I think it is a good idea to go by diameter rather than pound test in relating to fly size or fishing conditions  because it is a constant. The manufacturer can put anything on the spool they want to as far as pound test goes unless it is special IGFA rated line. For trout, we use mostly 5x and 6x for tippet on dry flies around here in Nor Cal. Our most popular and average size dry fly is a #14. For wet flies/nymphs for trout we use mostly 3x, 4x and 5x depending on the fly size and fishing conditions. Again, our most popular, best selling and most useful size nymph is a #14. Early season we might use larger #6/8/10 nymph with a 3x tippet. Most of the time anglers are using #14s with 4x and then in late summer and on spring creeks the average is a #16 with 5x and smaller. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

_____  I can add to this in how to regard the information you’ve offered here Bill and I bow to your superior knowledge on what and why and how come customers usually order tippet materials.  Actually, it is one of the most incomplete subjects remaining in fly fishing, believe it or not. As materials get stronger, the diameters should have gone down to accommodate those who still desire to use 1.5 test tippets and not 3# tippets of the same diameter.  This is going to sound like a juggling act, but it holds water for me and many others out there across America. I am often asked, how does one determine what tippet size to use on any one hook size?  In the days of yore, when a .004 was still 1.5 LB test, I could advise with confidence that if you can put a tippet through the eye of the hook you’re using THREE times, its probably the right diameter tippet for that fly. Yet, I may not want a 3# test tippet of .004 thousands anymore because I may want to use a small fly that requires only a #24 or 26 hook and I may want only a 1# test tippet for very personal reasons.  Today, I would rather have the option to have a .003 diameter tippet or even a .002 diameter tippet for sippers while still enjoying the invisibility and the greater strengths for these super small diameters of .75 – 1 Pound test for very small flies. Invisibility is determined by tippet diameter, foremost.  Then color and refraction of light come next, but often . . . you can use even a pure black leader but if the diameter is very small . . . it will catch and fool fish.  Of course, this is a radical example but it is true. Diameter is foremost and poundage second in my book in how I fish but the two are a tight marriage required to fool fish who are keen of eye.   Smaller diameter leaders also allow flies to twist and turn more naturally on and under the water.  Given a choice between using a 3# test tippet of .004 or a 1.5# test tippet of only .003 I will opt for the 1.5/.033 tippet and I hope its Maxima. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Question:

There is no upper platt river in colorado you idiot… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/

Response:

Hey Loser, I went to the web site and it says you are supposed to make $5000/week. You didn’t even make half that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/

Response:

Make that 20 pounds, please – at least, with another 30 pounds to rub your fat spam face in! (not you Wayno!) David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/         rather than doing that, why don’t you just step up to the local privy, eat about a pound of shit, and die. wayno

Response:

I love it – we all go to the web site and then comment here.  The loser spams all the NGs automatically and never looks at the responses 9 I think they are probably predictable!).  He sucks up the email addresses and sells them on (or tries, because like him we have spam robot-proofed our email addresses!).  Oh well it made me feel better having a go at him.  OTOH at least he could have said ‘while I was fly fishing…..’ cheers David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Loser, I went to the web site and it says you are supposed to make $5000/week. You didn’t even make half that. and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/

Response:

I made 200000 dollars last week while others where fly fishing…I stole a bunch of their cars…. who cooks up these schemes? edwin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/         rather than doing that, why don’t you just step up to the local privy, eat about a pound of shit, and die. wayno

Response:

and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/

Response:

and if you’ll go visit my web page,  i’ll be fishing again next week…. you can go fishing too if you just do what i do   its free and easy http://www.secrets2success.com/special56180/

        rather than doing that, why don’t you just step up to the local privy, eat about a pound of shit, and die. wayno

Response:

Question:

tell me where to get them and i will do it thanx Andrew         What should i put on my website.  I have an outdoor Oriented site and was         wondering what you guys like in a website. Please let me know.         Andrew Fulton     Andrew,     Being the presumptious sob that I can be, I’ll speak for the group….     nude flyfishing women     that should about cover it…..     –Wataugan Walt

Response:

If you can tell me where to get them i will do it.  Thanx Andrew         What should i put on my website.  I have an outdoor Oriented site and was         wondering what you guys like in a website. Please let me know.         Andrew Fulton     Andrew,     Being the presumptious sob that I can be, I’ll speak for the group….     nude flyfishing women     that should about cover it…..     –Wataugan Walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What should i put on my website.  I have an outdoor Oriented site and was wondering what you guys like in a website. Please let me know. Andrew Fulton Andrew, Being the presumptious sob that I can be, I’ll speak for the group…. nude flyfishing women that should about cover it….. –Wataugan Walt

—

Question:

Uh-Oh…I think someone just turned on the heater it’s starting to get hot in here….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck. The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

and George began his reply: ______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying?

(remainder of repartee snipped, in my never-ceasing attempt to save band-width) Go get’em George.  We can’t have these blithering naysayers ruining our fun. Mark Faulkner

Response:

‘kid,’ is licking his wounds.  He will heal though and will come back to try to learn  more about us. O.G.O

Response:

Tonkin Kid, I think you should change your name to "The Foolium Kid". 1. Do you know what the price of a bundle of Tonkin cane is. 2. Do you know the average number of good culms in a bundle of Tonkin cane? 3. Do you know how many rods with extra tips can be built with one culm? 4. Do you know how many strips a man using power tools can plain in a day? 5. Do you know how many blanks one man can finish in a day? 4. Do you know what the mark up is on a bamboo rod? I don’t know where you buy your hardware and materials but you won’t ever find me there.  I have seen figures just like yours trying to justify the cost of graphite rods also, but you should peddle your foolium elsewhere, I am not in the market. Ernie Harrison

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.   Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck.   The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying? Oh?  By the way – Refer to me from now on as "O.G.O." The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic.

As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?

dense quality Imported Just For this bastard. Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!

HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!??

Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that.

But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.

more careful on who you’re talking too here ‘tonkin kid’.  Is that it?  "Tonkin Kid?"  Are you saying you have the market cornered on cheap bamboo?  Sorry.  We don’t want any. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  This fly fishing world is ready for a Beautiful Bastard – and this is it.  In fact, you’re beginning to qualify for one. But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half.

equate your kind of foolishness with a high quality BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Don’t Tread On Me Dude"  Just might become a Bastard Model.  Thank goodness, nothing you’ve said so far applies to a BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Half Life," looks more promising to the "tonkin kid," buddy.  Where do you get off making such outlandish statements and lies?  Do you work for Bill Clinton? What about the tapers?

Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web.

But soon customers won’t be so patient.

You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  Like I said.  I’m rich. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.

tooling is the best in the world.  Do you want to come and work for me? Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade.

shop.  Everything is free except raw materials.  You need to get your planing forms from someone that doesn’t screw you all the time, kid.  It was "kid" – right? What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules.

have too but, I will admit I’d rather just buy them ready made.  You’re down to nickle/dime stuff.  Hardware.  No mystery in hardware.  If we can’t buy it at a price that is fair, we will make it right here. Kid, you just don’t know what the hell  you’re talking about.  If we can build it cheaper, guess what the choice is going to be? If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage.

person operation.  Automation on as much as is possible is guaranteed.  Those ‘full time’ rod makers have to cut the vacations and coffee breaks pal. I just love it when all these losers keep equating how others should run their businesses.  Has anyone latched onto that yet?  "Welllllllll?"  They think.  If it takes ME 100 hours to make a bamboo fly rod, that means its going to take you 100 hours too." wrong! There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it.

BASTARDS. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass?

_______Well, gee?  I don’t know?  Is there a difference between land and water? The moon and the sun?  Your wife as compared to mine?  Golfing in the middle of a street and a fairway?  You tell us kid.  This is a heavy question. Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all.

qualified.  Park it dude.  Your engine is racing but your tires are standing still.  All this has NOTHING to do with   BASTARD FLY RODS.  You have not one, single, base point to stand on.  You are just (to be perfectly frank) a baseless opinion.  A noise.  A silent fart in church.  You are way off base on nearly everything.  But!  That is okay.  We get them like you here all the time.  We just need to soften you up a little and get you drunk a time or two.  We might even teach you how to be a success.  Here, anything is possible.  Even for you kid. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.

pine tree all the time?  Just LISTEN to yourself!  Quote:  "Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap."  Well, there are no other BASTARDS and these are not old.  Right away, you make yourself out an idiot of principle, ‘kid’. This also isn’t ANY old BASTARD.  That is another mistake.  It is my BASTARD FLY ROD COMPANY and you have NO RIGHT to say or ASSUME the things you’re doing here . . . kid. (God, I love this place!) Perhaps the BASTARD

‘hope’ for ‘the kid.’  What do you guys think?  Is he or is not ‘the kid’ qualifying as a real bastard who should own a bastard? will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.

life.  How do we know?  Because you’re HERE!  It is everyone’s pleasure to meet a cynic such as  yourself.  You

… read more »

Response:

Question:

I would like to hook up a portable gas grill to my existing LP tank on my motorhome. My Grill has a regulator on it. I would like to put a quick disconect at my coaches lp tank and run aprox. 12 ft hoese to the grill. Should this be installed before or after the regulator on the coach. Thanks Ron B

Response:

Everything should come after the regulator.  If you travel with gas appliances on, and you’re in a crash, and the line breaks, the regulator will limit the amount of gas leaking from the line (which will be bad enough).  If the line breaks between the tank and the regulator, the amount of gas leaking would surely be catastrophic.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to hook up a portable gas grill to my existing LP tank on my motorhome. My Grill has a regulator on it. I would like to put a quick disconect at my coaches lp tank and run aprox. 12 ft hoese to the grill. Should this be installed before or after the regulator on the coach. Thanks Ron B

Response:

I would like to hook up a portable gas grill to my existing LP tank on my motorhome. My Grill has a regulator on it. I would like to put a quick disconect at my coaches lp tank and run aprox. 12 ft hoese to the grill. Should this be installed before or after the regulator on the coach. Thanks Ron B

You can purchase exactly what you want from Camping World. You must install it before the regulator, since all the grills, lights, etc. with regulators attached expect to see "high pressure" gas on the high side of the regulator.  Somehow, I suspect that two regulators in series don’t make a whole lot of sense. Les

Response:

If the grill has a regulator you need to hook up before the regulator. I tried to hook up a Coleman lantern after the regulator and it wouldn’t work. Not enough pressure. You can get any custom made setup at your local propane dealer. — The only thing that stops God from sending another flood is that the first one was useless.                                        Chamfort 1741-94         to reply remove nospam from e-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to hook up a portable gas grill to my existing LP tank on my motorhome. My Grill has a regulator on it. I would like to put a quick disconect at my coaches lp tank and run aprox. 12 ft hoese to the grill. Should this be installed before or after the regulator on the coach. Thanks Ron B You can purchase exactly what you want from Camping World. You must install it before the regulator, since all the grills, lights, etc. with regulators attached expect to see "high pressure" gas on the high side of the regulator.  Somehow, I suspect that two regulators in series don’t make a whole lot of sense. Les

Response:

I can live with most kinds of noise.  After all I was born, raised and lived in New York City for 30 years before I eventually left for greener pastures.  All the noise you mention and is usually heard in parks is relatively of a short term duration.  The RVer’s that seem to require a generator to make it through the day run them for continously for hours upon hours.  That is what drives folks off the wall.  This person I was referring to was the only RV in the park of some 200 sites that saw the need of using a generator 6 hours a day.  I was staying at the opposite side of the camp from him and still it was a constant drone of noise. The camp rules are loose and probably should be.  But just because something is not specificly disallowed does not mean it should be OK to do it.  Common courtesy comes into play with the needs of the campers in the other 199 campsites that would appreciate some peace and quiet. If that person ‘required’ AC voltage for some reason, it seems to me to only be logical to stay someplace that supplies it.  If they want to enjoy the facilities of the State Park, they could come in on day trips.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ed, I really really try to avoid responding to irrational tirades, but you are off the deep end on this one. Did you try to get a different site? Did you inquire about the reason? We just returned from a trip during which we also stayed overnight in a NY State Forest CG.  The rules did NOT speak to generators. We were the ONLY MH in our section, and we chose not to run our generator, even after the quiet hours (10-7) for breakfast. Instead, we left the park and found a parking area where nobody would be disturbed while we fixed coffee & toast. Ed, the regulations limit the hours for noisy disturbances, they don’t appoint you the judge of what sort of noise is unacceptable.  Kids shriek, and parents shriek at them. Dogs bark, and doors slam. Engines start. Boom boxes assault the senses with awful wailing and banging. You want noise?  Try a tranquil ocean-side park next to the naval air station! Or the near-perpetual wind off Cape Hatteras.  The rules also prohibit the discharge of firearms, but some yahoo let fly with 5 rounds from what sounded like a 12-gauge at 2:25 AM. Frankly, I don’t think you have any cause whatever to call the person a clown and an idiot… especially when you admit he operated only for a few hours in the accepted time frame and his generator was quiet. Regardless of whether he had a need – medical or otherwise –  that *you* consider valid, he has a RIGHT which you and I cannot properly dispute. If you want guaranteed quiet, BUY a huge tract of land, post no-trespassing signs, and get the gummit to declare the air-space above it sacred. And for goodness sakes don’t let anyone with any internal combustion engine get near the place. Will KD3XR

–

Response:

Tch! Tch!  "blockhead"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The camp rules are loose and probably should be.  But just because something is not specificly disallowed does not mean it should be OK to do it.  Common courtesy comes into play with the needs of the campers in the other 199 campsites that would appreciate some peace and quiet. I guess you don’t get it, Ed. No point in arguing with blockheads who think it is OK to describe someone as an idiot because they don’t conform to your POV.  As I indicated, the courteous person will avoid unnecessary annoyance of others regardless of rules.. which for the most part exist to deal with rude and inconsiderate people who will not otherwise behave decently.  But your extreme reaction to an individual at the other side of a campground tells me you are gonna be an unhappy camper for a long time.  And frankly I think you are out of line to claim to speak for 199 others campers, when you apprently did not even trouble yourself to meet the "clown". All of this should not be mistaken as my endorsement of annoying use of generators (or other equipment such as your mouth!).  Clearly, most RV travelers DO excercise care to avoid idling diesels, loud music, unshaded Coleman lanterns, etc.  But no good cause is served by irrational screeching, which I personally feel is more unpleasant than the sound of a generator. Will KD3XR

Response:

The camp rules are loose and probably should be.  But just because something is not specificly disallowed does not mean it should be OK to do it.  Common courtesy comes into play with the needs of the campers in the other 199 campsites that would appreciate some peace and quiet.

I guess you don’t get it, Ed. No point in arguing with blockheads who think it is OK to describe someone as an idiot because they don’t conform to your POV.  As I indicated, the courteous person will avoid unnecessary annoyance of others regardless of rules.. which for the most part exist to deal with rude and inconsiderate people who will not otherwise behave decently.  But your extreme reaction to an individual at the other side of a campground tells me you are gonna be an unhappy camper for a long time.  And frankly I think you are out of line to claim to speak for 199 others campers, when you apprently did not even trouble yourself to meet the "clown". All of this should not be mistaken as my endorsement of annoying use of generators (or other equipment such as your mouth!).  Clearly, most RV travelers DO excercise care to avoid idling diesels, loud music, unshaded Coleman lanterns, etc.  But no good cause is served by irrational screeching, which I personally feel is more unpleasant than the sound of a generator. Will KD3XR

Response:

When we worked in John Pennekamp Coral Reef SP in Key Largo, FL. the last three winters they did not allow generators to be run period.  Even the tour busses that came in were not allowed to sit in the parking lots with the generators running.  People all over the beach did not have to listen to that roar all day.  Will is right in that most state parks (and we have worked or volunteered at many) have quiet times and outside those hours most anything goes within reason.  For the most part people we have camped near that had to run their generators did so only for a  limited time frame and only out of some necessity. Rick

THE first clue here is the word "winter", and in ANY part of Florida, WINTER is the ONLY period when air conditioning is not a matter of life or death for most normal humans! Also note the absense of mention of whether park supplied power is available – that circumstance would make a world of difference as to any need for generators. The rest of your references to camping experience concerning the use of generators is pretty much common sense. — Gary..KJ6Q…  Born free – taxed to death! Pride is what WE have – Vanity is what OTHERS have…!

Response:

When we worked in John Pennekamp Coral Reef SP in Key Largo, FL. the last three winters they did not allow generators to be run period.  Even the tour busses that came in were not allowed to sit in the parking lots with the generators running.  People all over the beach did not have to listen to that roar all day.  Will is right in that most state parks (and we have worked or volunteered at many) have quiet times and outside those hours most anything goes within reason.  For the most part people we have camped near that had to run their generators did so only for a  limited time frame and only out of some necessity. Rick

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – obvious outrage: Forget about getting a generator.  I just got back from a week long camping trip at a NY State Park.  There was one clown (idiot) who was in a Class C RV that ran his generator every day from about 3:00pm to 9:00pm.  That guy was the most hated person in the camp. I was at the opposite side of the camp that him and I could hear the generator loud and clear.  It is not that the generator was that loud.  It is just that the park is quiet and the generator noise just drones on forever . . . Ed, I really really try to avoid responding to irrational tirades, but you are off the deep end on this one. Did you try to get a different site? Did you inquire about the reason? We just returned from a trip during which we also stayed overnight in a NY State Forest CG.  The rules did NOT speak to generators. We were the ONLY MH in our section, and we chose not to run our generator, even after the quiet hours (10-7) for breakfast. Instead, we left the park and found a parking area where nobody would be disturbed while we fixed coffee & toast. Ed, the regulations limit the hours for noisy disturbances, they don’t appoint you the judge of what sort of noise is unacceptable.  Kids shriek, and parents shriek at them. Dogs bark, and doors slam. Engines start. Boom boxes assault the senses with awful wailing and banging. You want noise?  Try a tranquil ocean-side park next to the naval air station! Or the near-perpetual wind off Cape Hatteras.  The rules also prohibit the discharge of firearms, but some yahoo let fly with 5 rounds from what sounded like a 12-gauge at 2:25 AM. Frankly, I don’t think you have any cause whatever to call the person a clown and an idiot… especially when you admit he operated only for a few hours in the accepted time frame and his generator was quiet. Regardless of whether he had a need – medical or otherwise –  that *you* consider valid, he has a RIGHT which you and I cannot properly dispute. If you want guaranteed quiet, BUY a huge tract of land, post no-trespassing signs, and get the gummit to declare the air-space above it sacred. And for goodness sakes don’t let anyone with any internal combustion engine get near the place. Will KD3XR Yahoo?  tch! tch!

Response:

obvious outrage: Forget about getting a generator.  I just got back from a week long camping trip at a NY State Park.  There was one clown (idiot) who was in a Class C RV that ran his generator every day from about 3:00pm to 9:00pm.  That guy was the most hated person in the camp. I was at the opposite side of the camp that him and I could hear the generator loud and clear.  It is not that the generator was that loud.  It is just that the park is quiet and the generator noise just drones on forever . . .

Ed, I really really try to avoid responding to irrational tirades, but you are off the deep end on this one. Did you try to get a different site? Did you inquire about the reason? We just returned from a trip during which we also stayed overnight in a NY State Forest CG.  The rules did NOT speak to generators. We were the ONLY MH in our section, and we chose not to run our generator, even after the quiet hours (10-7) for breakfast. Instead, we left the park and found a parking area where nobody would be disturbed while we fixed coffee & toast. Ed, the regulations limit the hours for noisy disturbances, they don’t appoint you the judge of what sort of noise is unacceptable.  Kids shriek, and parents shriek at them. Dogs bark, and doors slam. Engines start. Boom boxes assault the senses with awful wailing and banging. You want noise?  Try a tranquil ocean-side park next to the naval air station! Or the near-perpetual wind off Cape Hatteras.  The rules also prohibit the discharge of firearms, but some yahoo let fly with 5 rounds from what sounded like a 12-gauge at 2:25 AM. Frankly, I don’t think you have any cause whatever to call the person a clown and an idiot… especially when you admit he operated only for a few hours in the accepted time frame and his generator was quiet. Regardless of whether he had a need – medical or otherwise –  that *you* consider valid, he has a RIGHT which you and I cannot properly dispute. If you want guaranteed quiet, BUY a huge tract of land, post no-trespassing signs, and get the gummit to declare the air-space above it sacred. And for goodness sakes don’t let anyone with any internal combustion engine get near the place. Will KD3XR

Response:

Forget about getting a generator.  I just got back from a week long camping trip at a NY State Park.  There was one clown (idiot) who was in a Class C RV that ran his generator every day from about 3:00pm to 9:00pm.  That guy was the most hated person in the camp. I was at the opposite side of the camp that him and I could hear the generator loud and clear.  It is not that the generator was that loud.  It is just that the park is quiet and the generator noise just drones on forever and carries all over the camp.   I was very surprised that someone camped near him did not sneak over and do a little sabatage on that noise maker. Everything in the trailer except the air conditioner and microwave is designed to run on 12Vdc battery power.  If you feel you can not survive without an air conditioner or microwave, go to a commercial RV park where 30AMP power is supplied.  Stay away from dry camping or 20AMP power at State parks.  Generators are not welcome there.  Your fellow campers will not like you much for using it. If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath Well Mac, no question is a silly question.  It just means that the person asking it doesn t know the answer and would like one.  Lets get to it. Travel trailers use the propane gas to run the refrigerater and heater when electric is not available.  The water pump & interior lighting is run off the heavy duty storage battery that all or most trailers have. The battery is a recreational type high capacity battery capable of lasting for several days with reasonable use. Make sure you disconnect the trailer cable from your vehicle or you will drain your vehicle battery in a very short time if the vehicle is not running.  Personnal experience.

 And there were some trailers that had propane lights. I had one for a while in the late 70’s that had one, though it had been partially dismantled and the oarts lost, so I never used it. I did, though, at one time, use a Bernzomatic propane lamp. It had a reflector, and you could turn it down to a softer light. Used that one quite a bit. Main drawback is the heat they put out. Not as noisy as a coleman gas lamp though. — Wayne, AKA Blackie! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/4625 http://www.frontiernet.net/~blackie

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Hi Macgrath My little trailer is self contained so I can use the bath room toilet/shower and later empty the holding tank. The refrigerator is 3-way so I can use it on either AC, propane, or DC. The lights are also usable on AC or DC off the battery. My trailer’s battery is charged as I drive but I still find it a good idea to put a charger on it when I’m at home from time to time just to be sure it’s got a good charge. Good luck. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Well Mac, no question is a silly question.  It just means that the person asking it doesn t know the answer and would like one.  Lets get to it. Travel trailers use the propane gas to run the refrigerater and heater when electric is not available.  The water pump & interior lighting is run off the heavy duty storage battery that all or most trailers have. The battery is a recreational type high capacity battery capable of lasting for several days with reasonable use. Make sure you disconnect the trailer cable from your vehicle or you will drain your vehicle battery in a very short time if the vehicle is not running.  Personnal experience. Hope this helps. jon

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a separate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Yes, I’ve taken showers in my trailer in a rest area.  No generator required unless you want AC. Otherwise you can camp for days.  The holding tank will last for a week easily before you need to dump it. Off course that depends on how many people are using it.  Usually around 40 gals is the size of the holding tanks for freshwater and sewage. Batteries can be charged by connecting back up to your vehicle and running it for a little while.  40 gals of FW only last for maybe 2 days for two people.  You can haul in more easily though.  Marion.

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  

   You can run the refrig on propane gas.  The lights & water pump can run off of a battery.  I bring a spare battery & charge up whichever one has run down.  You will need a campground with a dump station to dump the holding tanks.  I don’t have a generator, there very annoying.  I go camping to get away from the noise.     Dennis

Response:

Generators aren’t as common on travel trailers as they are on motorhomes because the usual fuel supply (gasoline) isn’t on board.  There are propane-powered generators, but I don’t know how common/practical they are. Like you’ve been advised, the noise from generators is very disturbing — and often hated.  If you do decide to buy a generator, check its noise rating (published by the manufacturer) and buy the quietest one you can get.  Also look into solar power cells.  I have a small ($20) one which sits on the dashboard of a seldom-used car of mine, and it does a great job keeping the battery up to charge.  Of course, you’d need a more complex ("expensive") system for RV use. I’d advise you to go to your library and read all the back issues of Motorhome and Trailer Life magazines to start; also, any other books they have on RVing.  There’s quite a few books written by and for full-timers.  Good luck . . . see you on the road.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Response:

If you are not in a place with hookups, can you use a trailers bathroom, electric, fridge etc.  Do trailers need or have a seperate generator like ones in motorhomes?  I’m in the beggining stages of researching possible purchasing of an RV of some sort for full time living.  Look for more silly questions in the future:) —                                               ….macgrath

Hi Macgrath My little trailer is self contained so I can use the bath room toilet/shower and later empty the holding tank. The refrigerator is 3-way so I can use it on either AC, propane, or DC. The lighter are also usable on AC or DC off the battery. My trailer’s battery is charged as I drive but I still find it a good idea to put a charger on it when I’m at home from time to time just to be sure it’s got a good charge. Good luck. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Question:

We were in this area last September and camped with a small pop-up camper in the Conejos Campground which was lovely.  There were only a few other folks camped at the time ( mid-week).  Spectacle Lake right nearby is nice also, and the others we passed going east on 17 also looked nice.  We did not drive up to the Lake Fork or Mix Lake campgrounds as they were posted as closed, if I recall (maybe because of the time of year). Unfortunately, however, my husband who was flyfishing caught nothing (we were there only one night and part of 2 days) and says he did not even see a fish (but that was then, and this is now). Nancy Wilson  

Response:

Does anyone have info (or experience) on camping in the Rio Grande National forest in Conejos County CO. I’m taking a pop-up and plan on fly fishing the entire ten days I’ll be there. Thanks in advance Mark Wiebelhaus

Response:

Question:

I have some St.Croix and other graphite blanks I want to sell. All are brand new and never used. No seconds. E-mail for a list…USA only please. Thank you Tony

Response:

Hi Tony, I’m interested. Please email information. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products 3020 Secor Ave Bozeman, MT 59715

Response:

Question:

I am looking at boat for coastal fishing for stripers.  It has a Force 50HP outboard engine that is about four years old and seems to be in mint condition.  Does anyone have any experience with Force? Thanks in advance JK

Response:

I am looking at boat for coastal fishing for stripers.  It has a Force 50HP outboard engine that is about four years old and seems to be in mint condition.  Does anyone have any experience with Force?

If you don’t mind dealing with pre-mix, then a Force is a decent enough engine for "in shore" flyfishing. The Force engine line was an older Chrysler design which is now made by Mercury, so the dealer support should be as available as "true" Merc’s… If you’re looking for opinions, I’d look for an engine with VRO (variable rate oiler) so you can avoid the pre-mix and cut down on fouled plugs (a dead engine while snuggling up to cast to a breakwater can be *very* exciting ;^) but that does come with a higher price tag… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

I am looking at boat for coastal fishing for stripers.  It has a Force 50HP outboard engine that is about four years old and seems to be in mint condition.  Does anyone have any experience with Force? Thanks in advance JK

Reply. I have a Force 1985, 85 hp. on my 16 foot bass boat. It works great and hasen’t cost much money. It doesn’t like to run for long periods at high speed, other than that, no problem. I understand Mercury has bought the company out and is supplying service ?????

Response:

I have a Force 1985, 85 hp. on my 16 foot bass boat. It works great and hasen’t cost much money. It doesn’t like to run for long periods at high speed, other than that, no problem. I understand Mercury has bought the company out and is supplying service ?????

Dennis: Using the standard premix ratio (I think it’s probably 50:1?) is probably insufficient for extended high-speed operation of that engine. I can’t say for certain if it’s mentioned in the operator’s manual (but it should be) that for that kind of use the oil should be increased (to 25:1 or so). Otherwise you’re likely to overheat the engine which might explain it’s reluctance to carry on for you at full-blast/long period operation… This is one of the niceties of a good VRO (not to mention that you don’t have to muck around with premix in the first place)… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

I am looking at boat for coastal fishing for stripers.  It has a Force 50HP outboard engine that is about four years old and seems to be in mint condition.  Does anyone have any experience with Force? Thanks in advance JK

I would avoid Force like the plague.  Every year in Canada someones motor breaks down and it’s ALWAYS a Force.  Have yet to see one make it thru a hard week of fishing. Just what I’ve seen. Vince

Response:

Question:

Mike and Sue Solgat of the Fish Connection in Gardnerville, NV — a fly fishing specialty shop — produce regular fishing reports for the "Fish Sniffer."  I help type and submit them.  If there is interest, I’ll post abbreviated versons for the Carson Pass/Alpine County and Western Nevada areas.  Or you can call "The Fish Connection" direct at (702) 782-4734 for the latest information.  We have some great fly fishing up here, so come up and check it out.       Let me know if you’re interested in reports.  e-mail me: Dick Hubbard,

Response:

(RICHARD HUBBARD ) writes:

I help produce a N California flyfishing report that is fax’d to interested parties in the San Francisco Bay Area.  Your info will be most helpful.  You can send info e-mail or fax to Fish First ! 510/528-2613

Response: