Question:

I was probably coming into the conversation late – what’s new?! I usually use a duncan loop to tie tippet to fly. I usually start with a fairly loose knot in the hope that the fly will move in a more natural manner (and that that will make a difference), but it usually tightens up after a few casts. If I can ever get to the point that I can tell that my choice of fly-to-tippet connection makes a difference I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

 Try the "non-slip loop", which is the Rapala loop without the final  step.  Both are supposed to be stronger than the Duncan.

Thanks. The main need I have for strength is for pulling flies out of brush. Bob Wondering if it’s better to break the line at the tippet-to-fly connection or at the tippet-to-leader . . .

Response:

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Like Bill says below I’ve used it as a loop knot on a fly works great and very strong. Good idea to use as a tippet connector I’ll have to try.

Response:

I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

    liar, liar, pants on fire.  we all know you’re an accountant! yfitons wayno

Response:

Wayne Knight suggested that Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. I have been having problems tying small flies on to tippet (especially dry flies), so I now pre-snell/tie them, at my tying table with plenty of light and magnification, to about 16" – 18" of tippet and store them in a thing called a "Pip’s Box" made by Mack’s Lure of Leavenworth, Washington State US (You can hold better than a dozen flies or so with this thing without tangling the tippet, and it comes in colors with a see thru lid.  I organize my flies by the color of the box.)  My eyesight, especially at twilight or later, is not so good even with a flashlight.  I just can’t seem to get the tippet thru then I have a hell of a time tying the knot IF I get it threaded.  I am using Fluorocarbon tippet, these days, and I feel that a blood knot is not adequate for this material.  I then use a Tie-Fast Knot Tying tippet to the leader with their double splicing knot or double nail knot as some have described it, which I believe is considerably stronger than the blood knot, or at least my blood knots anyway…be curious to see if anyone else has the same experience. Just my two cents worth, anyway Padishar Creel

Response:

  we all know you’re an accountant! Always prospecting for business, huh? Bob

Response:

I think I will, Wayne. I made a leader, per Lefty Kreh’s directions, for casting big bugs. However, I used uni to uni knots. I think I will make another one with blood knots and attach it. I mastered nail knots a long time ago. Now, I am trying to expand my knot repertoire. I still maintain that the perfection loop is a myth… Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Response:

Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop.

it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line.

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Ralph, — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

Steve, Lefty really promoted the non-slip loop knot and now I see most of all using it with flies we want to move freely like a Clouser minnow. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Nice contribution. Very helpful. I hope you continue to foster goodwill in this group and for the sport of fly fishing. Bugged – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

//snip//  Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a  difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs  non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/  cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference.

I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

I’ve found its hard to beat a perfection loop for most leader connections. The perfection (if tied properly) stands straight out from the standing line with no offset, and the knot strength is near 100%. I use it on all leader butts (with a whipped loop on the fly line), & on all tippet connections down to 4x.  5x & smaller I use a doubled surgeons knot.  I think its easier to tie than a surgeons loop, and, well….. it looks cool! B.J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Hi All, In larger diameter mono like attaching leader to a butt section we use perfection loops because they are a smaller, cleaner knot and strength is not an issue. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. In larger diameter mono like attaching a leader to a butt section we also use a blood knot because it is a smaller, cleaner knot. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we also use a triple surgeons knot because it is stronger. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony

Hi Tony, Go here for any knot you’re apt to use: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/ Frank Sr.

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop?

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

I speaking only from the leader end, agree blood knot to attach a butt section to a leader.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Question:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)?

Chota Brookies are the lightest I have seen. — Charlie…

Response:

Gary,   Get a pair of tennies, buy a felt re-sole kit, drive some aluminum nail through the felt, cut the nails off flush and cement it to the tennies with the nail heads against the shoe sole.  This isn’t the best foot protection, but provides economical, light weight, slip proof waders. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

I like my "dan bailey lightweight wading shoes"  about $45, really light and durable for me anyway.  They smash really flat to fit in a backpack also. Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

… Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  … In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. …

5.10 rubber soles may be OK for some wading, but if you’re wading on rocks you’ll want felt soles. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack.

I glued felt to the bottoms of an old pair of Teva’s and they work pretty well.   Willi

Response:

Patagonia makes the best lightweight wading boots I know of. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot.

I wore out my pair last year, sent them back for new felt soles, and they sent me a brand new pair of boots. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

My kid brother’s worn-out size 14 basketball shoes. Glue on felt soles. Use ‘em as camp shoes too, if you don’t mind wet feet. — "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum" — Ambrose Bierce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who sells the lightest wading shoes

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot. Drifter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

Response:

I have a pair of hodgeman bantam weights that are extremely light "dry"…some of the seams blew out after about 11 months use,(1 year warranty), just got a new pair on warranty. I agree with Ken, what works best for me is to hike them in. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Before you buy.

Response:

Orvis has a tennis shoe type wading shoe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them. Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off). For the first time, I was able to wade the E Walker with no slipping at all (bowling balls covered with snot). Bought ‘em a size big so they fit over my wader booties.   Good luck. Dick Weinkle

Response:

I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off).

Going completely OT:   Michael Jackson went to K-Mart because he heard boys pants were half off.

Response:

Question:

I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing"

Response:

Uh oh – beware the Noll troll who wrote, in part: … It makes Fishing look like kids stuff.

I call this "beefing." << -tran

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing" Hey Nimrod! Here’s a novel idea! Forget the cows!!!  Try doing this on jetskiers! A target that is moving would take more skill. Cows would be far too easy anyone could do that! Your going to have to work on a new name though…….Bummer !      Steve

Right on!!!

Response:

Question:

Hi, I’m a short time lurker. Was wondering if anybody could recommend a resort/guide service in Colorado offering private water and/or accommodations. Thanks in advance. John Sorell

Response:

Go to www.elktrout.com

Response:

Elktrout is a very fine, fly fishing only-catch and release only,  resort with great strecthes of private property on two rivers and quite a few fantastic ponds.  The guides work hard and you fish right up to dark. Bows and cut throats are prevalent in the ponds with some very large browns lurking in the rivers.  Fish seem to bight all the time.  Quarters and food are first rate. Scenery is beautiful but lots and lots of cow shit to avoid.  All together a wonderful private retreat. Tom Bogdan

Response:

Thanks to all for the replies….John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Elktrout is a very fine, fly fishing only-catch and release only,  resort with great strecthes of private property on two rivers and quite a few fantastic ponds.  The guides work hard and you fish right up to dark. Bows and cut throats are prevalent in the ponds with some very large browns lurking in the rivers.  Fish seem to bight all the time.  Quarters and food are first rate. Scenery is beautiful but lots and lots of cow shit to avoid.  All together a wonderful private retreat. Tom Bogdan

Response:

Question:

    my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

Wayne; Two information sources I can think of, and both are excellent IMO: <<www.rockymtnflyfisher.com and Fly Fishing The North Platte by Rod Walinchus, Pruett Publishing, Boulder, CO, 800-247-8224. Rocky Mountain Fly Fisher produces a Windows CD-ROM with info and maps on sevreal dozen Rocky Mountain streams. Al Marlowe

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any information on the actual fishing conditions (hatch, water temp. water level…) for the rivers in the northern part of New York state (Chateauguay, Salmon Marbel, Ausable, Saranac, Chasy…..). Or better phone numbers where I could get these information on a daily basis.

Response:

Does anyone have any information on the actual fishing conditions (hatch, water temp. water level…) for the rivers in the northern part of New York state (Chateauguay, Salmon Marbel, Ausable, Saranac, Chasy…..). Or better phone numbers where I could get these information on a daily basis.

Check out Francis Betters’ site… I think it’s called the Adirondack Fisherman, or something like that.  Do a search with his name and fly fishing.  I believe he posts a hatch report for the Ausable, and will give really up-to-date info by phone. Bob Scott

Response:

Question:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite sucessful when the generators are not "on" – discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt sinking tip line and all the normal flies that work with the the "water off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing the river which is quite safe and effective.

Response:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite successful when the generators are "off" – not discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to 18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt. with fast sinking tip line and all the flies that work with the water "off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this type of water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing this river which is quite safe and effective. For a picture of the boat and my son see www.2ducks.com/boats.html Would be happy to take out some experienced flyrodders that can teach me the tricks of this particular aspect of flyfishing. ANY SUGGESTIONS would be appreciated. If you think it may be my fly selection, please let me know. I commonly use clousers of all colors, all sizes, some top water poppers. I have not been able to tie the large 8" flies, but the average striper caught is <20" so I would not think this is the problem. I am not a guide, just an avid sportsman living 5 miles from the dam. Can fish 2 – 3 flyrods out of the boat at a time so bring an experianced friend if you would like. I normally can fish from 5pm to sunset weekdays, Fridays 1pm to sunset, and all day on the weekends. If we don’t catch any fish you can buy my lunch at Burger King. Water temperature is 48 and rising and the floodgates are now open. Have private access to the river.

Response:

Question:

I’m going to be attending a conference in Skamania on March 11th, 12th and 13th. The conference goes from 0800 to 1630 and my time after that is free. Is there any place I can go for some evening fly fishing. This is my first time in this area. Thanks,                Rick

Response:

I’m going to be attending a conference in Skamania on March 11th, 12th and 13th. The conference goes from 0800 to 1630 and my time after that is free. Is there any place I can go for some evening fly fishing. This is my first time in this area. Thanks,                Rick

Rick: Check out late steelhead on the Washougal just west up the Columbia. Check you regs. March is a difficult time.  Late for winter steelheading and early for springers.  Had a great trip early April while at a similar confrence several years ago.  Springer fishing started in the darl at 4 AM at Drano Lake east of Stevenson.  Was back for the opening session by nine. Good luck. Bart

Response:

: Check out late steelhead on the Washougal just west up the Columbia. : Check you regs. I remember a day about 15 years ago when the steelhead were actually stacked up side to side across the Washougal.  For hundreds of yards… very impressive.  One could literally walk across the stream on the fish backs. Does it still get that way?  (I think this day was in late summer.) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be attending a conference in Skamania on March 11th, 12th and 13th. The conference goes from 0800 to 1630 and my time after that is free. Is there any place I can go for some evening fly fishing. This is my first time in this area. Thanks,                Rick Rick: Check out late steelhead on the Washougal just west up the Columbia. Check you regs. March is a difficult time.  Late for winter steelheading and early for springers.  Had a great trip early April while at a similar confrence several years ago.  Springer fishing started in the darl at 4 AM at Drano Lake east of Stevenson.  Was back for the opening session by nine. Good luck. Bart

The Wind river is RIGHT THERE.  This will be maybe a little early for the summer run fish, but there are native trout as well. The Washougal will have a mix of dark steelhead and maybe a few native springer steelhead, but the runs have been off lately.  The White Salmon has some fish, but may be closed – I don’t know.   I would do the Washougal, and go middle to high on the river.  Note that the river closes at Salmon Falls.  Go to Washougal, and turn north at Wild Willies.  The road will take you along the river, and there is reasonable access.

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: The Wind river is RIGHT THERE.  This will be maybe a little early for : the summer run fish, but there are native trout as well. Hey folks, there is a nifty natural hot springs on the (L) Wind.  Don’t ask ‘cuz I’m not telling.  Just look around. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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I have gone up to the Sault for about 4 years now using standard spinning gear sn spoons for the Pink Salmon.  I have to say, despite seeing lots of fish, the "cast per fish" ratio is outrageous.  We would catch 1-2 each for about 8 hours of fishing.  I have heard that fly fishing for them is MUCH better, and I’m looking for advice on where and how to catch them.  I live in Michigan.  Thanks

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I have gone up to the Sault for about 4 years now using standard spinning gear sn spoons for the Pink Salmon.  I have to say, despite seeing lots of fish, the "cast per fish" ratio is outrageous.  We would catch 1-2 each for about 8 hours of fishing.  I have heard that fly fishing for them is MUCH better, and I’m looking for advice on where and how to catch them.  I live in Michigan.  

Two local guides, one Canadian and one US, feature in Linsenman, Bob, and Steve Nevala Great Lakes Steelhead: a Guided Tour for Fly Anglers Backcountry Pubs., Woodstock Vt. (1995) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore. I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

I for one am going to take my tube out in the lake in a controlled situation and flip it until I am comfortable with this "wet exit". I didnt even realize flipping my tube was possible- It’s pretty wide. You got my attention! Jack Jack Wheeler

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?

You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

… paragraph of inappropriate sarcasm deleted … know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

You insensitive bastard.  I gather no one will shed a tear when your tube flips. Bob Luneski

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne has a good point, unless of course the manufacurer designed a tube that would obviously flip under normal operation. i.e. shaped like a kayak.  If an angler choses to forego a PFD and drowns because the tube completely deflated before going ashore, then too bad. (Which is a different circumstance than the subject victim) I personally limit my use of the float tube to calm still waters on small lakes with land very accessible.  I view my tube as the "only" option as a boat on a small pond or lake where a regular boat would be less intimate.  Larger waters require a normal boat or even a pram, a tube is not viewed as my "poor man’s boat".  No white water adventures here because no fish is worth my life. My condolences to the familiy of the unfortunate angler. — Howard

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame?

If it was a manufacturing or design defect, then yes, there is every right to sue, provided that it was being used as intended. It might very well be a design which places the rider COG too high…the lawsuit might 1) get it fixed and 2) save more lives. Something that seems really ludicrous to me is the price of some of the tubes…like Browning…around $50…imagine that, really, something for $50 that has such serious implications, a $50 boat. Hmmmm…boggles the mind…freaking fly line costs more… TimW

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Wheee!

If you can maintain this attitude, you will survive the flip. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. There were times when I had to worry about this, but they are several pounds

ago. My COG is pretty safely placed, now.   I did flip once, getting into the water, because I was careless, and tried to walk forward rather than back.  Really scary for about 10 seconds.  I am really careful, now. I have to say, seems like the carrying straps add to the danger.  I don’t use them.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

In reflection, my previous post might be considered to be flippant and callous regarding the original incident.  I meant no disrespect, and extend my sympathies to the family and friends of the unfortunate tuber.

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

Your waders will be tough to pull under water upside down.  You might give it a try (with help nearby) and let us know how it goes.  Sobering thought being upside down with your neoprenes, all snug and airtight, waving around in the breeze.  Perhaps the open-ended tubes have more to recommend them than easy entry. John Porter, I’m truely sorry for your loss and appreciate the warning. Good fishing!  J. Rice

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With regard to an earlier post of mine to the fellow who’s brother drowned a "Bob" [Last name omitted to protect the guilty] apparently skimmed same and, thinking I was being sarcastic/insensitive, submitted a post of his own with a  few of the lines from my post he misconstrued. For the opportunity to restate the point of my original post will gladly forego asking for mea culpa from Bob for wrongful skimming/snipping me to make me sound like a bastard/calling me a bastard/etc., etc. since I also know his heart was in the right place. Thus, again: Here’s hoping the fellow who lost his brother will tell us if his brother’s two boys are in financial straits and, if so, whether and where there’s a trust fund where those of us who are interested can send something. (And oh, Bob, re your calling me a bastard: No hard feelings (Though I hope you didn’t hurt my father’s feelings, whoever he is….)

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I’m sorry to hear about your brother,I offer my condolences.My brother did the same thing,luckily he survied.I was to far from him to help and I just stood there in disbelief.I think he was trying to get out of the water to take a leek,and tripped on a rock and fell forward. Being a steep dropoff right next to shore he could not reach the bottom with his hand.  As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.  I now fish with a floater vest or a floater collar,and so does my brother, we enjoy our fishing trips together and especially float tubing. It’s a very exciting sport and I hope you do not give it up. BTW he is my twin brother,and I don’t want to lose him. Just sharing my experience with everybody and maybe it hits home to some people. Tight lines,Frank

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

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: On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube : over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what : made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left : two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, : moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he : loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his : class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered : from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… : If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop : me a note. Sorry to hear of your loss. Can the tubes be flipped while leaning backwards with one arm extended to the rear and feet out in front of you? Suggestion for discussion: When diving, I wear a large dull knife strapped to my leg. This is mostly to impress the tourons. However, after having managed to get all tangled up in a monoline fishing net once, there is now a small, double-edged, very sharp, serrated (sp?) edged knife fastened to my shoulder strap. Next time I’ll leave all that equipment down there with a few quick strokes of that knife when the release buckles are all tied up. Maybe it is just me, but after a couple of emergency situations, you go prepared. When upside down in a tube, can an escape be managed with a slash to the tube and a couple cuts on shoulder straps? I know, like you don’t have enough junk hanging on your vest already. Also, there are ankle weights for divers that don’t like diving upside down. I assume tubers have these also to help paddle around? Bill

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died…

Rich: My sincerest condolences to you and your family… very sorry to hear this tragic news.

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As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.

I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll. — -Wayne Trzyna

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I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

The panic factor and 35 degree water might be a problem with this assumption.  Keeping your wits about you would be difficult.  I assume you practiced rolling your kayak under somewhat controlled conditions.  I never practiced flipping my tube. Does a PFD really help if you are flipped over.  Will it keep your head up when the tube is flipped over and your legs are pointed to the sky, or will it keep you from flipping in the first place?.  Just curious if anyone has experienced a flip while wearing a life jacket. John

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

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I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them?????

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First for safety I would say we need to wear PFD’s of some type.  Second we should never be without a good readily available knife.  Third it isn’t a bad Idea to try to flip one with a friend present and try a water exit. Not panicing is probably the key.  Neoprene waders are very bouyant and can hinder a water exit plus they are cumbersome.

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If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I find that the lower I set my self in the tube the better control I have over it  This may take away some of my casting ability but I feel safer. Condolences on your loss

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

   First of all, let me say I’m very sorry for your loss.    This should be a heads-up for float-tubers and anyone thinking about buying one.  A friend of mine flipped his in the Green River and fortunately was able to right himself in shallow water while I watched helplessly from fifty yards away.  He is 6′2" and 250 lbs and was in a Browning tube which is way too small and carries you way too high, especially if you are his size.  He will never use that tube again.  In the same year a boy drowned in that river when his tube flipped.  Tubing in rivers is especially dangerous because the current can make it even more difficult than it already is to free yourself from a flipped tube, not to mention hazards like rocks.  If you flip, don’t try to right yourself.  Try to remain calm and just swim out.    For what it’s worth, I have a Caddis tube.  It is about the largest diameter tube I have ever seen and I sit quite low in it.  I am 6′ and 170 lbs. and I don’t think I could flip it if I tried unless I was standing in very shallow water.  I also always wear a lifevest. -alan

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

Tragic.  Deepest, deepest condolences. You did not mention the use of a life jacket.  Was your brother wearing one ? TW

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon.  

        (Snip) Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. if there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new   reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

        Well, . very crass, but I think your heart is in the right place. I think its a super idea. If, after they recover some from the shock of their loss, the family would accept some help from others who shared your brothers passion, I for one would be very willing to help.  

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