Question:

they tend to be much more     durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece.     Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. I can tell that you haven’t bought store-bought leaders in quite a while.     Willi

Response:

 I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

I personally don’t really have a preference either way. I do find in some rivers where algae is a problem the need to constantly clear the knots on the leader of the weed or algae to be a pain, but  then I have to do that with the tippet knot anyway. In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Umpqua have a phenomenal range of different leaders. check out their web site if you are interested, even if you don’t purchase your leaders their various different designs will give you some ideas for your own. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I almost always make my own because I think it’s easy and like you said I can use whatever material I want.  I can whip up a leader or fix one in a couple minutes out on the stream.  I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply, but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

Response:

In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off.

Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

Response:

[...] I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply…

        Agreed.  There are more variations in leader formulae than Heinz has pickles and ketchup.  :-)  I’ve been using the simple formula in Kreh’s and Sosin’s "Practical Fishing Knots", and for 90% of the fishing I do, it works about as well as anything.   but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

        I think that’s the beauty of tying your own.  You can tweak your leader to the conditions and the characteristics of the fly you’re using and refine the presentation to what you need.  Sometimes this can really pay off.  Of course, other times, the leader configuration doesn’t matter a whit. Todd

Response:

Perhaps so, so but in reality, that is the correct way to use store bought leaders with the butt section bit being the only real optional part. Tippet should always be added pretty much. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

Response:

I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader.

I prefer tying my own because a) it can get you back into rising fish faster, and b) the flexibility you mention above. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly.

I haven’t noticed any hinging with the double surgeon’s knot, and I think the presentation is comparable either way. I’m sure some strength is lost, as it is with any knot, but I haven’t lost any more fish with the hand-tied than with the store-bought. — TL, Tim

Response:

Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I find the disadvantages of knots in leaders too great for dry fly fishing (viz. bits of flimsy mono catching on the knots.) I use a tapered leader tapered to a heavier weight – say four pounds – then tie a tippet of a lighter weight – say three pounds – maybe two or three feet. And then there’s a couple of feet of heavy mono attached to the line, with a loop in it. Keep cutting the tippet down till there’s no more, then add another. L

Response:

The book is titled "Drag-Free Drift Leader Design and Presentation Techniques for Fly Fishing" by Joseph A. Kissane.  There’s an associated CD Rom that does leader calculations by Steven B. Schweitzer.  He’s cofounder of the Global Flyfisher website.  The book is actually pretty good.  The author is an engineer so it’s written in a technical writing style and is very detailed in parts.  Sometimes I feel like I’m reading a physics textbook. I’m an analyst by profession so I like to understand things. Sometimes I think it’s better not knowing whether my leader is hinging or not.  Like one guy posted on the Leaders & Tippet thread  that goes something like this: "I just tie it that way and it works.  Don’t know why." I think that’s all that counts. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on. Lots of very sophisticated fly fishers use tapered knotless leader, but they modify them a bit. Years ago we all tied our own leaders because the only ones you could buy were not too good. I still tie my own leaders for steelhead and salt water. I think everyone that wants to tie their own leaders, tie their own flies and build their own rods should do so because it is fun and can be very educational. After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on…

I used knotless leaders for the first year or two that I fly fished, and they worked well enough, but I think my own leaders work even better. Having stuff catch on the knots is a minor to nonexistent "problem," or at least it is in the places I normally fish. When it does happen, removing the moss or whatever is pretty quick and simple. It only takes a few minutes to make a leader from scratch, and these leaders have, IMO, several important advantages. I can give it exactly the taper I want, I can use different kinds of monofilament in different parts of the leader (stiffer at the butt, softer at the tippet, for instance), and when rebuilding the leader at streamside, I know exactly where I am in the taper by following the knots. The toughest part is learning to tie a good blood knot, and it only takes a few leaders to get the hang of that. I tie my own flies for similar reasons. I can use exactly which materials I want, and modify or create patterns as I see fit,  they tend to be much more durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece. Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill.

What a "Right On" remark to make.  Great! Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on.

Not, IMHO, anything but a cop out reason.  Doesn’t hold water because it is "The Fly" which must be kept clean at all times.   After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine.

Bill?  I really think you’re a savvy kind of shop owner and the majority of your advice is super.  But I have to say this about tapered leaders.  From Brand to Brand, there is nothing as consistant in fly fishing than the consistant inconsistant tapers of tapered leaders. The ONLY WAY to be assured of a sharp turn over and absolute control for the SERIOUS fly fisherman is to tie their own, or better put, roll their own leaders.  It is rare that anything catches knots in hand tied leaders, not unless the water is full of dissideous moss and junk and even then, a tapered leader still  has a minimum of two or three knots involved. I truely dislike tapered leaders because they are heat melted from a single large diameter butt section and pulled to a longer taper, not unlike pulling warm bubble gum out of one’s mouth.  No two strings or pull are the same. Never! I take my fly fishing much too seriously not to tie my own.  It is an art form just like fly tying.  Why would anyone deny themselves of this pleasure when it comes to "The Ways of a Trout?"  I just can’t fathom the mind set that uses tapered leaders. George Gehrke "who always rolls his own" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi Bill, I haven’t tried tying my own leaders yet but would like to. The knots in the leader seem to be the biggest drawback.  When I went with guide on Henry’s Fork, he set up "our rig" with a set up he tied himself.  I wished I had paid closer attention to what he had done.  We had a full day of great fishing and even for us rookies we could make decent casts (albeit not very far casts).  I buy the pre-made leaders and tie a tippet on the end.  They work well enough but the presentation is poor about half the time.  I’ve tinkered with cutting off certain parts and adding tippet where I think it might work better.  This trial and error approach does not always produce great results. I don’t get out as often as I like so I like to make the best of it when I do. I mostly fish high mountain lakes and as you probably know conditions can change rather quickly. If the day starts out warm and sunny, the leader has some nice flex to it.  Have the sun go behind the clouds and the wind kick up the leader gets stiff and my tippet will wrap around it like a rope on a tether ball pole.   Of course, that’s when the fishing starts to get hot and I’m there with a mess on the end of my fly line. Thanks, Eric

Response:

Question:

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Yep, he always gets Chill Wills and Slim Pickens mixed up… — Charlie…

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!!

Yup…but when the brewery is shut down for construction…ya gotta just make do. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes…

Oh, I don’t know. I think there’s a lot more to it than passing down indignities. Team building, male bonding etc. etc. Not that I’m in favor of hazing but I’ve endured some, I’ve inflicted some and I’m no worse for the we&*6YHOU&UK arghhh, kill, kill, sue, sue, CANCEL THE WHOLE DAMN HOCKEY SEASON. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!! Mr. G.

Response:

Now listen here bud,   awwwww, forget it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on.

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes… —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

two-story outhouse. How would that work? —

The story I got was that the outhouse had been built for a hotel that was built during the 1880’s and the hotel was above the timberline. The snow got so deep that the hotel and all other buildings had have doors  that worked when the snow was so high that doors on the first floor could not be opened…you just couldnot wait till the snow melts, so… Big Dale

Response:

daytripper wrote Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

The man is no fool.  Over the top is exactly where you want to be while using the establishment in question!  (Especially if ET2 is standing outside throwing rocks into the muck)

Response:

TBone wrote [deleted] To hell with the beer. To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT !

Sorry.  Misspoke.  Meant to say, "To hell with the Bud" Can I be excused now? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

______  Great!  If David LaCourse was on the first floor. Dang!  Did I say that?  Sorry David, even you don’t deserve that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance …

Remove your hands from the keyboard, and leave them where I can see ‘em… Let me be sure that I’m understanding correctly: We have a nasty C&R thread that’s forked, we have a couple of g*nk threads, and people are complaining about beer postings in a Clave thread? I’m sure that there’s logic behind such matters. I’m also sure that I’m not following it. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

Response:

I had to do a search and see if I could find a photo of this two-story outhouse on the Internet.  I remember watching a program about a two- story outhouse on t.v.   Additionally, thought I could remember seeing a photo on the Internet of a two-story outhouse.  So, I had to refined the photo.  Here are the photos of two-story outhouses that I’ve found. http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5047/outhouse.html http://w3.trib.com/~leebo/gem.htm http://www.mich.com/~jloose/ohorania.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Here are some more photos. http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette004/gif/035.GIF http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette005/gif/038.GIF http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/wanderers/Brokenislands/outhouse.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the [budweiser].  I’m still trying to visualize a two- story outhouse.  How would that work?

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter. Encampment, Wyoming has one of these, too. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter.

This is not always the case.  The web sites that I found talk about the two story outhouse being next to a hotel.  The top part was for those people that had a hotel room on the second floor.  A small bridge was built to the outhouse so they would not need to walk down at night. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad. Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Response:

1/10/00 Ruling 611/b In the Matter:   First use of Word "beer" in Western Clave Thread Ruling: Dismissal of Query. Reason: Mere use of the word "beer" does not constitute an offense, unless the word(s) "Budwiser," or "Bud," or any similar, are used in the same post as the word "beer." Issued by Order of , , , Thread Police Summary Justice Authority "To Serve and Protect" Have a nice day – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                 anything you say can be used against you …

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer … Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread.

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse.  How would that work? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad.  Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

Response:

[deleted] To hell with the beer.

To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer and check out the sights. I took a picture which accidentaly turned out very good. This is unusual for me, but when I show off this picture of a two story outhouse, most turn it over to see where the postcard is from. It seems like they had torn down some old buildings from all over the state and reassembled them in this little town I guess as sort of a tourist thing. At any rate I can’t remember the name of the town. It could have been Virginia City or it could be some other little town in the area. Does anyone know which town I am talking about? Most folks remember it if they have ever seen a two story outhouse. It is not a bad place to burn up some film. At any rate I would encourage all to bring a camera and to remember to take pictures of things other than fish. Big Dale

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer …

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                  anything you say can be used against you …

Response:

Question:

Mike, you’re probably gonna catch some flack about fishing with rakes ;^) But glad to hear you found the camera. fwiw: Current upper-end Kodak models include the DC265 (essentially a firmware-upgraded DC260), DC280, and DC290, in order of features & price. Do you think there’s any chance that the camera might actually function after a thorough drying? If you think it’s a write-off, you might as well see if you can take it apart, rinse the whole thing in distilled water, then let it dry for as long as it takes, before reassembling it and giving it try. /daytripper

Hey Tripper.. I am gonna see if I can wangle a 290. I wanna stay with the same chassis as I have accessories for it. I dunno. I was actually thinking of sending it to KODAK to see what they could do with it… If they can or won’t then I might just try that! Back to the Pond tommorrow! This time just to fish! I got six bows today and I lost all of the Strymphs I was using to just tied another four for tommorrow! Cheers! — Michael Era

Question:

I also catch butterfly peacocks in South Florida. The ultimate bait is, of course, small shiners. The best artificial I’ve used for them is a #5 Rapala floating fire tiger.  The colors seem to really get their attention.  It also works well for largemouth bass! Brady – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we have peacock bass in south fla. i use a number 13 rapala black or silver back, or a 1/8 oz stanly tadum willow leaf glod and silver spinnerbait with a zoom split tail trailer slow rolled. i found any good topwater bait , pop-r or zarra puppy gets them to. Cajunbass8 "THE TRUTH HURTS"

Response:

If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

(1)  Do any of you guys/gals who fish for Peacock Bass have pictures of them you could post? (2)  Has anyone ever ascertained if Peacock Bass could cross-breed with LMB bass or spots?  Or smallmouth? Warren Funk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

Hey Warren — I just checked out page 742 of McClane’s Standard Fishing Encyclopedia (includes a nice picture).  According to McClane, the Peacock is a member of the cichlid family. Our favorite black beauties are members of the sunfish family.  I dont’ think we have to worry about hybridization because the only situation where members of two completely different families can mate and reproduce is in a cheap Sci-Fi movie. Gotta tell you a quick story about hybridization and cichlids.  Years ago I was strolling the shoreline of Town Lake which winds through downtown Austin, Texas.  When I see a group of anglers on the bank, it’s pretty hard for me to pass by without stopping to see what they’re catching, — especially, as in this case, when they’re acting excited.  So I trotted over and asked what was happening.  One of the older guys said, "My wife just caught the damndest thing you ever saw — it’s a cross between a Bluegill and a Piranha!"  His wife chimed in, "It ain’t safe to swim here anymore — these things could bite your leg off." I have to admit I was pretty curious because it is not unknown for tropical fish hobbyists to turn unwanted pets loose, and Town Lake has produced some interesting catches, so I’ve heard.   So I asked to see the fish.   She proudly held up an 8-inch male Rio Grande Perch, which with its hump, does look a little like a Piranha.   I said, "Yes ma’am, that’s pretty interesting," and continued my walk. The Rio Grande Perch is, I think, the only member of the cichlid family native to North America.  Austin is about as far north as you’re likely to see one. Tight Lines, Bent Rods, Storm

Response:

Warren, I have a picture of about a 3# peacock I caught last year.  Unfortunately, I’m holding it so you have to see me as well! I don’t know if it’s proper to post it here – I can scan it and post it, or e-mail it to you directly. Please let me know. Brady – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (1)  Do any of you guys/gals who fish for Peacock Bass have pictures of them you could post? (2)  Has anyone ever ascertained if Peacock Bass could cross-breed with LMB bass or spots?  Or smallmouth? Warren Funk If you would like to know what works in S. Florida, you might want to order a copy of Carlos Hidalgo’s "South Florida’s Peacock Bass ". He has suggestions for everything from live bait to flyfishing. It is locally available here in Ft. Lauderdale, but you might want to try my Freshwater Fishing Books page for a link to Amazon.com at http://inshore.com/bk-fresh.html . Jim Sawyer I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

I am a resident here in hawaii and I would like info on the best methods or lures to catch peacock bass. I haven’t been too successful in catching them and could use any suggestions on catching the butterfly strain of the peacock bass that are stocked here in hawaii. mahalo Lono

Response:

we have peacock bass in south fla. i use a number 13 rapala black or silver back, or a 1/8 oz stanly tadum willow leaf glod and silver spinnerbait with a zoom split tail trailer slow rolled. i found any good topwater bait , pop-r or zarra puppy gets them to. Cajunbass8 "THE TRUTH HURTS"

Response:

Question:

playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!!

Thanks for the post David.From another flatlander.I too am adicted to bluegills on a 3-weight.(you can’t have too many good 3-weight rods.)I enjoy taking catfish on my 3-weight rods, but have not been able to figure out how to do it on a more than once in a while basis and then seldom on the surface.My experience is that they are hell  on leaders, but who cares after a 20 minute fight? Big Dale PS My latest 3 weight Scott purchased from E-Bay was delivered by the postman yesterday. I had a good  visit with the postman who is another flyfisherman. Should be on my favorite bluegill pond about daybreak to check out the new rod.

Response:

which I am only able to read. So maybe you can tell us… Which came first?

I am sure Indian Joe will be able to give first hand knowledge to George. God would’nt you like to be a fly on the wall at that event!!!!! Big Dale

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads.  This past Tuesday I returned from a 7 day trip to Alaska, to find over 1,000 posts accumulated here on ROFF….I read most of them. (certain people on here are always worth reading)  After reading, it once again became clear to me why I am still here after nearly 5 years, this damned NG is not only enlightening, but entertaining as well.  If you want or need a comparison with a similar to that group too for more than 5 years.  This is a ‘moderated’ group, with the listowner who controls the content, ie: no flame wars, keep the to dress up, put on my Sunday best and behave while I’m there.  Over here, HA!  just amble on in wearing nothing but my boxers and a 3 day it’s just that this motley bunch has much more to offer in the way of entertainment value.  To quote our Mr G…"God, I love this place!" — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

|Greetings.  I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but |have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. |Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. | |Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the |bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a |rod.  I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill.  I grabbed |my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some |wary bluegill.  I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught |several bluegill.  I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X |to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. | |Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands.  Before I |knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line |was beginning to disappear!  I knew I had a larger fish and figured it |was a bass.  The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or |not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet.  After 20 minutes, or so, of |playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) |on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but |was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! | |I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. |BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the |shock of catching the catfish. | |David R. Felter |"The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." |

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though.  It is a rare occurrence.

During the whitefly hatch in July and August on the Susquehanna river, catching catfish on drys and emergers is fairly common, although I have never caught one of the big cats I know are in the river when fishing on the surface.  After a while you can tell the difference between a catfish rise and a smallmouth rise and target either species.  The catfish fight more like an old tire – no match for the smallies. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, y

Frank, did ya catch any in AK? –Walt

Response:

I have been using the Madame X tied in black on a size 10 hook in late summer and early fall for the past several years. It is *very* effective on trout from early September until the first hard frost. I think it represents a cricket, but it might just be an attactor. I havn’t tried it on warmwater fish, but I suspect it would be deadly on bass and sunfish. George Adams

Response:

Lurking for 4 years!!??  Man, you must have the patience of a saint to stay out of some of these threads.  

<snipped It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc.  :-)     Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions.  So watch out!  :-) David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened."

Response:

It has tried my patience occassionally, but two little girls were taking too much of my time to get involved in a good (?) C&R discussion, or whether George was spamming, or fishing has become too high tech, or whether a seperate tying news group is a good idea (going back a couple of years), etc.  :-)

You do go back a ways.  The fact that you’re still here should be, well, disturbing to your family and friends. Anyway the girls are older and I have a _little_ more free time to become involved in the discussions.  So watch out!  :-)

I have two girls who were little once, but quite mysteriously have become young women who need to be shielded from certain attorneys in the old north state, lest their hearts be forever captured.  Anyhow, enjoy their presence now for they are too soon gone. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I have two girls who were little once, but quite mysteriously have become young women who need to be shielded from certain attorneys in the old north state, lest their hearts be forever captured.  Anyhow, enjoy their presence now for they are too soon gone. Mark Faulkner

        you know, markey, i meant to talk with you about those little rascals; i mean, where could be the harm in a couple picture exchanges and a few nights reading the advance sheets together…         wayno, who wouldn’t *dare*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Love it! I have seen and caught catfish on a fly – nymph fished extremely slow on the bottom though.  It is a rare occurrence. Now the important question – What’s the pattern for the MadamX? I know rubberlegs tend to drive Bluegill crazy. — Bill Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings.  I have been lurking in this group for about 4 years, but have been completely satisfied with just reading the different posts. Now I am ready to join in the melee with a report of my own. Being a flatlander my main quarry is the largemouth bass and the bluegill, and the other night (after work) I felt the need to bend a rod.  I went to a local farm pond to catch a few bluegill.  I grabbed my trusty 3 wt. and the appropriate boxes of flies to go after some wary bluegill.  I tied on a sponge spider and immediately caught several bluegill.  I decided to change flies and selected a Madame X to see if I could entice more bluegill to jump on my line. Imagine my surprise when my rod almost came out of my hands.  Before I knew what was happening my rod was bent over and my pile of slack line was beginning to disappear!  I knew I had a larger fish and figured it was a bass.  The problem was I didn’t know how big and whether, or not, it would break my 1.5 pound tippet.  After 20 minutes, or so, of playing the fish I was shocked to discover a Channel Catfish (~3 lbs.) on the end of my line!!  I have never seen a catfish take a fly, but was even more astounded that it had taken a dry fly!! I guess it just goes to show that fly fishing is always an adventure. BTW, the bluegill action continued until dark once I got over the shock of catching the catfish. David R. Felter "The mind is like a parachute.  It doesn’t work if it’s not opened." ______  GREAT!  Thanks for sharing it.  The Madam X was invented by John Foust and I sat right next to him while WE tied it together. He would ask, "What do you think of this?"  And, I’d say, tie it all forward, bring it back to make the head and the wings will explode . . . and he did.  John thought of adding the rubber legs.  Then we later went to the B-52 for the big salmon fly hatch on the Bitterroot.  Yes, John is a marvelous fly tier but I did help him create it, which is of great pride to me.  But John Foust deserves 95% of doing it all by himself.  He sure turned into a pretty good fly fisherman.  I have stories of John that will tickle your funny bone.  His is a funny man and a very smart one also. George — Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Your pal, George —

Response:

Nope. Not ever. At least not as long as you and I and other good Americans Romanticist Gentlemen have a pulse, a synapse, a keyboard and an ISP. You Go George. You’ve done more for flyfishing than the rest of us turkeys combined will ever do and they would do well to remember this. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

TWalker: (speaking to George G.) <<You’ve done more for flyfishing than the rest of us turkeys combined will ever do and they would do well to remember this. But, will they?  I doubt it like hell. Dave LaCourse

Response:

TWalker: (speaking to George G.) You’ve done more for flyfishing than the rest of us turkeys combined will ever do and they would do well to remember this. But, will they?  I doubt it like hell.

Tim, Dave, and yes, you too, George, here’s the thing: while I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says about it, I – and I suspect that most everyone else that frequents this group – respect George’s experience and knowledge about *flyfishing*. It’s the rest of the wild-eyed, off-topic, bilious rantings that George has the prediliction to post here that many (if not most) of us resent and have no respect for, and which detract from George’s overall "Esteem Index". George doesn’t need to be "PC" – but certainly he needs to learn not to blow a hole in his own foot when shooting his mouth off in public. When he went on a bender and used this forum to trash Canadians, for example, the fallout from that markedly diminished the respect people here might otherwise have had for his flyfishing experience. And those of us who remember his first few weeks on ROFF will never be able to separate those lunatic tirades from "the rest of George". As I’ve said before, George is clearly his own worst enemy. George is clearly an intelligent human being who in spite of his years hasn’t quite gotten the Big Picture yet. In his favor, there’s still time and hope… /dave

Response:

Very well put, and correct.  Having done something positive in the past does not necessarily mean you can then do a lot of negative things with impunity, much less expect your well earned respect for the positive aspects to be maintained by others in the face of sometimes almost overwhelming negatives. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Question:

Can any one recommend the right size fly pole for Bass and small Stripers?                                                 Thanks!

Response:

I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO USE A 6 OR 7 WEIGHT FLY ROD .THAT IS WHAT I AM GOING TO DO THIS SUMMER 97.I CAN HARDLY WAIT. TIE YOUR OWN FLIES AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISED.

Response:

try using a 9ft boron rod…use 7wgt fwd line and use either a popping bus or a deer hair bug tied by one of the catalog co. ll bean dan baily orvis…etc

Response:

Question:

A relatively new angler, I have discovered the bliss of pursuing trout by canoe. I have fished for Brook and Lake Trout in Algonquin Park a few times and thoroughly enjoyed it. But I was always there in the Spring. I am planning a trip into the series of lakes at the Magnetawan Lake access point — next week. It was as close as I could get to the Sept 30 season closing. The weather is still warm, so I expect the fishing to be a little difficult. I’m bringing spinning gear and, for the first time, a fly fishing rod. By canoe, mostly lake fishing with a side trip to a river. I have a Dispy Diver if necessary. If anyone can provide any suggestions by e-mail on techniques for this time of year, I would appreciate it. I would be happy to report back on my success and share any learning. (To the two gentleman who helped me out by e-mail this past spring, I promise a full report after this trip.)  Thankyou.   —

Response:

Question:

I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard! Thanks

Response:

I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard!

I attended my first meeting of the Gaithersburg, Md Chapter of TU last night. The guest speaker was a Professional Fly Casting Instructor whoes home waters are the Patapsco River which emptys into Baltimore Habor. He lives in Ellicott City, MD (on the Patapsco) and seemed very knowledgable. His name is Philip Krista (410-461-3007). — Alvin E. Crane 512 Suffield Drive Gaithersburg, MD 20878-2679 Voice: 301-208-8114  Fax: 301-208-8681

Response:

The Patapsco above Ellicott City (more specifically RT. 40 bridge to the dam at Daniels) is a ball to fish for smallmouths and redeyes.  It’s a small stream, easy to wade and full of fish.  Favorite stretch?  The 100 yard stretch below the island at the steel bridge at Old Frederick Rd.   The stream bed is full of junk tires, and there’s a bass in the middle of every one.  Yellow marabou muddler minnows, #6 or 8.  Don’t forget the Potomac River, either.  It’s within an hour of Baltimore, and great to float or wade.  

Response:

Question:

Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

Response:

I have been twice in 1988 and dec. 1994. It is the best bone fishing i have found for numbers of fish. I was there in Sept. of 88 and Dec. of 94. Largest of the two trips was 30 inches. Most weigh about 2-3 pounds. Good food and native guides are fine. I would suggest u hire an extra guide for yourself or for you and a friend if anyone goes with you. A young guide, NAREAU is the best I have used. MOANNA the most famous is now into the bottle pretty heavy and on our last trip he was quite undependable. If you need any other suggestions let me know. I would only book through FRONTIERS in Medford, Penna. good luck. Jack.

Response:

Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. —

Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408)

554-8649 Regarding bone fishing on Christmas Island:  my husband and several of the other members of the Santa Cruz Fly Fishermen fished there last January. They booked their trip through a group called Fishabout, located in Los Gatos.  They have a P.O. Box:  1679, Los Gatos, CA 95031.  Contact either Howard McKinney or Kay Mitsyoshi, at 1-800-409-2000.  The group flew to Honolulu, then transferred to Air Nahru to Kiribati.  Their accomodations were in a small hotel, and their guides took them by boat out to the flats, where they fished, accompanied by the guide.  Everyone reported fine fishing and were satisfied with the package, so Kiribati is having some success promoting their bonefishing. Yours, Pat Steele

Response:

Give any of the destination fly shops a call.  Christmas Island is a very popular bone destination these days.  I would reccomend The Fly Shop in Redding,  CA.  Ask for Mike, the owner… Good Luck, Mad Dog

Response:

Kaufmann’s Streamborn has a lot of good information and experience with Christmas Island.  They have a great color catalog that you can full color photos of lots of travel destinations including Christmas Island.  They’ve got a new web page at http://www.teleport.com/~kman  You can also call them at 800/442-4359, and ask for Jerry.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

Response: