Question:

Jeff,   Just so I have the details correctly: 1 dry and 1 wet caddis, in orange. Size can be anything the tyer wishes?                               Tom

Response:

Jeff,   Just so I have the details correctly: 1 dry and 1 wet caddis, in orange. Size can be anything the tyer wishes?                               Tom

okay.  see how agreeable i am… jeff (btw, yer now on the rules committee)

Response:

jeff writes: btw, yer now on the rules committee

man, this place is getting like my workplace! People calling me dumbo and maggot, now the committees!  AARRRGH!                                  Tom now, about that matter of defining "orange"

Response:

Tom writes: now, about that matter of defining "orange"

Yes.  And perhaps a recipe….. Dave

Response:

Dave writes: Yes.  And perhaps a recipe…..

no, that would take all of the creativity out of it.                          Tom

Response:

Tom writes: Dave writes: Yes.  And perhaps a recipe….. no, that would take all of the creativity out of it.

Aha!  I see….. heh, heh, heh.

Response:

So can i go buy some caddis and spay paint them orange ???Are these going to be distrubited to all entries into the rodeo ? Also bareback or saddle broncs? And i would imagine there will be alot of bull there also.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

jeff writes: btw, yer now on the rules committee man, this place is getting like my workplace! People calling me dumbo and maggot, now the committees!  AARRRGH!                                  Tom now, about that matter of defining "orange"

If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

Response:

Stan writes: If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

well, shoot! Within a minute or two after scrambling down the bank, they will all be wet flies anyway!                                 Tom p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks!

Response:

Stan writes: If you’re tying Jeffies flies, I think you should be *real* creative.

hmmm… may i suggest a bunch of orange thread and deerhair on a bottle opener? i lose bottle openers some kinda bad. p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks!

kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it? jeff

Response:

Jeff writes: p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks! kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it?

sorry if you misunderstood, I just wasn’t tying "proxy" flies for others. However, can someone clear up this confusion? Are we having a swap or also a one-fly angling contest at Blue Rock Hole? Ignorant little shit which I am, I am starting to get murky on the details.                                  Tom

Response:

Jeff writes: p.s. I am tying flies for myownself, thanks! kinda kills the swap idea then don’t it? sorry if you misunderstood, I just wasn’t tying "proxy" flies for others. However, can someone clear up this confusion? Are we having a swap or also a one-fly angling contest at Blue Rock Hole? Ignorant little shit which I am, I am starting to get murky on the details.                                  Tom

sorry about the murky details – it’s residue from the anticlave thing. anyway, yer the rules committee, so issue a ruling.  i thought we were tying, swapping, and then fishing the swaps (orange caddis only) at the axelrad rodeo at the blue rock hole. jeff

Response:

jeff clarifies: orry about the murky details – it’s residue from the anticlave thing. anyway, yer the rules committee, so issue a ruling.  i thought we were tying, swapping, and then fishing the swaps (orange caddis only) at the axelrad rodeo at the blue rock hole.

Wow, is this stuff complicated!  I mean, I invited you damned confeder….er, I mean Southerners up here, and now we have this convoluted mess!  Good Lord!  I say we tie them, swap them and then all go and get drunk after we drop them in the woods someplace whilst trying to sort them into boxes. Pretty much what is going to happen anyway, I figure. Alright, I will go along with your version, but don’t say I didn’t warn you, this is going to get Ugly. Good of you to take care of those tshirts for me.                                     Tom

Response:

Hearing about this rodeo, I couldn’t resist… Two cowboys are out on the range talking about their favorite sex positions. One says, "I think I enjoy the rodeo position the best." "I don’t think I have ever heard of that one," says the other cowboy. "What is it?" "Well, it’s where you get your wife down on all fours and you mount her from behind. Then you reach around and cup each one  of her  breasts in your hands and whisper in her ear, ‘Boy, these feel just like your sister’s.’ Then you try and hold on for 8 seconds." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well alrighty then… here it is.  Participants must tie one dry and one wet/nymph.  Only those attending the Penns clave can join the swap, but, you can have a surrogate (only one) tie your flies for you to be sent to me (only way wayno and pj could participate).  So, sign up, name your seconds (the one whats gonna tie your flies) and send them to me. I’ll send my snail mail address to those participating. Now, before anybody else makes the solicitation, I need a surrogate to tie my flies – with full attribution to you, of course!  Wolfgang, Mike Connor, rw, willi (if you aren’t attending), warren (if you aren’t attending), daytripper, petah c, somebody…i know one of you guys (or girls?) will be happy to help me out <G. Those who sign up and who attend the Penns clave automatically will be entered as participants in the 1st Annual Axelrad Memorial Bizarre Fly Rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  You will be allowed to use only orange caddis – dry and/or wet/nymph – for the duration of the rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  Further details will be announced by the Board of Directors, once we figure out who the hell they are gonna be. jeff

Response:

(SPLORK VANG MU!) I’ll try to remember that one Jeff.  Good one. bruce h

Response:

Well alrighty then… here it is.  Participants must tie one dry and one wet/nymph.  Only those attending the Penns clave can join the swap, but, you can have a surrogate (only one) tie your flies for you to be sent to me (only way wayno and pj could participate).  So, sign up, name your seconds (the one whats gonna tie your flies) and send them to me. I’ll send my snail mail address to those participating. Now, before anybody else makes the solicitation, I need a surrogate to tie my flies – with full attribution to you, of course!  Wolfgang, Mike Connor, rw, willi (if you aren’t attending), warren (if you aren’t attending), daytripper, petah c, somebody…i know one of you guys (or girls?) will be happy to help me out <G. Those who sign up and who attend the Penns clave automatically will be entered as participants in the 1st Annual Axelrad Memorial Bizarre Fly Rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  You will be allowed to use only orange caddis – dry and/or wet/nymph – for the duration of the rodeo at the Blue Rock Hole.  Further details will be announced by the Board of Directors, once we figure out who the hell they are gonna be. jeff

Response:

Question:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them.

     Even better. These are high tech stainless hooks, so they aren’t dissolved by stomach acids. All the mule has to do is swallow them, then get      I was in with you on this one RW, but maybe we ought to think it a little more.       Charlie,       at least I hope they’re barbless

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

fire away, I’m on pins and needles  . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…..who wants to hear my idea?

Shoot.

Response:

we’re waiting       Handyman          Mike

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity.

Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Somewhere along the line of two or three hundred dollars and flight….for the airlines. Anybody in here close enough to that industry to let me bend their ear a bit?  I mean this marvelous idea came from discussing fly fishing, so this post is only kinda sorta off topic. There is no profit or gain for you or I. I just have a question. john

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while there is a silent message or ode to the stars where luck and happenstance mix like a caldron of thick cosmic soups. It can be the difference between fate and greatness or the marriage between caution and failure of which the masses are inevitably doomed. Perhaps this is why one percent of the population owns 90% of the wealth of every nation. For every termite mound that contains nearly a half million little bastards there can be only one queen and one lucky little sucker. That, could be anyone!  It’s often the luck of the draw or the rare dude with the courage of a lion. No joke I suppose you have been tying flies again. —

Port and Mozart too?

Response:

[deleted] So what are you going to call the new ones,  "Shit Sticks" ?. Point of note. In the new American Rapper Dictionary (Teenager Abridged Version) this would imply superiority (which they are, I’m certain) as in "those rods are the shit, man".

Total agreement, I definitely think George should focus 100% of his effort on tapping the heretofore ignored ‘Teenage American Rapper’ Flyfishing Market Segment. Don’t bother selling hook boxes, though, pretty much anyone under 21 nowadays looks like they’re using their face for a keychain. They shouldn’t have any problem with hooks, either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — TimW

Response:

Tim said:<<Total agreement, I definitely think George should focus 100% of his effort on tapping the heretofore ignored ‘Teenage American Rapper’ Flyfishing Market Segment. Don’t bother selling hook boxes, though, pretty much anyone under 21 nowadays looks like they’re using their face for a keychain. They shouldn’t have any problem with hooks, either. I think I see a market for zinger ear rings.

Response:

Every once in a while there is a silent message or ode to the stars where luck and happenstance mix like a caldron of thick cosmic soups. It can be the difference between fate and greatness or the marriage between caution and failure of which the masses are inevitably doomed. Perhaps this is why one percent of the population owns 90% of the wealth of every nation. For every termite mound that contains nearly a half million little bastards there can be only one queen and one lucky little sucker. That, could be anyone!  It’s often the luck of the draw or the rare dude with the courage of a lion. No joke ; ) — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.cyberecord.com/CYRD%20new%20facility.htm

Response:

Every once in a while there is a silent message or ode to the stars where luck and happenstance mix like a caldron of thick cosmic soups. It can be the difference between fate and greatness or the marriage between caution and failure of which the masses are inevitably doomed…..ibitty, ibitty, ibitty….

http://www.explodingdog.com/pictures/three6/noihaven.html Wolfgang no joke

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while there is a silent message or ode to the stars where luck and happenstance mix like a caldron of thick cosmic soups. It can be the difference between fate and greatness or the marriage between caution and failure of which the masses are inevitably doomed. Perhaps this is why one percent of the population owns 90% of the wealth of every nation. For every termite mound that contains nearly a half million little bastards there can be only one queen and one lucky little sucker. That, could be anyone!  It’s often the luck of the draw or the rare dude with the courage of a lion. No joke

I suppose you have been tying flies again.

Response:

MIchael responded to George’s idiotic ramblings by saying: << I suppose you have been tying flies again. I suspect that most likely he’s been sniffing the glue.

Response:

Ahah !  Comprehension finally dawns. I kept hearing about "sniffing a line", it never occurred to me that it might be glue! Oh well, if you have some, I suppose you are obliged to find a use for them. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de <SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suspect that most likely he’s been sniffing the glue.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while there is a silent message or ode to the stars where luck and happenstance mix like a caldron of thick cosmic soups. It can be the difference between fate and greatness or the marriage between caution and failure of which the masses are inevitably doomed. Perhaps this is why one percent of the population owns 90% of the wealth of every nation. For every termite mound that contains nearly a half million little bastards there can be only one queen and one lucky little sucker. That, could be anyone!  It’s often the luck of the draw or the rare dude with the courage of a lion. No joke I suppose you have been tying flies again.

— (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

MIchael responded to George’s idiotic ramblings by saying: << I suppose you have been tying flies again. I suspect that most likely he’s been sniffing the glue.

_______  no.  budweiser, which always makes me sick to even have an open can in the same room.  We threw the bastard out!  (can and all)   ; ) — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

 We threw the bastard out! (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

A grateful world sighs with relief. So what are you going to call the new ones,  "Shit Sticks" ?. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

_______  no.  budweiser, which always makes me sick to even have an open can in the same room.  We threw the bastard out!  (can and all)

of your IRA man. chris

Response:

[deleted] So what are you going to call the new ones,  "Shit Sticks" ?.

Point of note. In the new American Rapper Dictionary (Teenager Abridged Version) this would imply superiority (which they are, I’m certain) as in "those rods are the shit, man". — TimW

Response:

[deleted] So what are you going to call the new ones,  "Shit Sticks" ?. Point of note. In the new American Rapper Dictionary (Teenager Abridged Version) this would imply superiority (which they are, I’m certain) as in "those rods are the shit, man".

As judged by a rapper, right? <g — Charlie…

Response:

The main reason I don

Question:

Looking for a fly shop or resource for current fishing information about the St. Mary’s River, particularly information regarding Fall steelhead. Twice now, I have been to the river and both times the gates were wide open making the river unfishable.  Thanks in advance.

Local guides and clubs are identified in:  Linsenman, Bob, and Steve Nevala  Great Lakes Steelhead: a Guided Tour for Fly Anglers  Backcountry Pubs., Woodstock Vt. 1995 This information will not help you when the dam gates are open. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Looking for a fly shop or resource for current fishing information about the St. Mary’s River, particularly information regarding Fall steelhead. Twice now, I have been to the river and both times the gates were wide open making the river unfishable.  Thanks in advance. Jim Francois Stillwater, MN

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

Try the south fork of the Flathead river. Only has native west slope cutthroats and dolly varden. both are thriving, and are natives.   little hard to reach though…. in the bob Marshall Wilderness…. which is why they are still natives.

Response:

I’m on the other side of the mountains, but there are a few little small streams coming down out of the mountains near my house have have native brookies.  And 8 incher is a lunker, but they’re gorgeous.

Response:

Apache trout are still found in decent numbers in one watershed on the eastern Sierra, but no fishing is allowed and it is patrolled by a back country ranger whose only territory is that particular watershed.

OOOOOOPPPPS!! This was supposed to say Piute Cutthroat, not Apache trout.                                       Sorry ’bout that,                                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man? Jon, I don’t know a lot about many places, but wild native Brook Trout are still to be found in a few of the spring creek headwaters in the Appalachians (North Georgia, N.C.) but they are having a real tough time surviving the ever encroaching effects of man. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Brookie needs colder, clearer water than most freshwater species, and this presents a problem as the streams warm due to the activities on or near the various watershed.  Also, they cannot fend for themselves when pitted against Browns and Rainbows for a limited food supply. Sadly, another problem that the little brookies have is that they have a reputation of being too easy, and too small (we’re not talking Labrador here) so they don’t get a lot of attention.

Here in the eastern  part of Tn we still have some native brookies. It looks like they are coming back. I recently caught and released a  10 inch brook trout and caught many more of lesser caliber. Hans

Response:

Fereira) writes: Do you know if the "Eagle Lake" rainbow is considered "native"?

Yes, it is native to Eagle Lake in Northern CA but has also been transplanted to lots of otherwise dead waters or to places where water is too alkaline for other types of trout including more common strains of rainbows .  This particular strain can tolerate higher alkalinity than normal trout.  They also get REAL BIG!                                   Good Fishing,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Yep! Terry Weir is right. Every fish I catch is a native, wild fish! Love that salt water biodiversity too! Wayne Marshall

Response:

I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie… You weren’t supposed to tell

OOPs<g. They are so pretty though and hard enough to catch that I hope I didn’t do any harm. I can remember hiking back in a couple of miles, suprising a bear or two, and crawling up behind a boulder to make a cast into a pool that couldn’t have been much bigger than the inside of my rental car. What a lot of fun! — Charlie…

Response:

Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie…

Response:

I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie…

You weren’t supposed to tell

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man? JE <snip you would like the book "Native Trout of North America" by Robert H. Smith published by Amato Publications.  this book is a search for native, pure strain fish.  lots of searching of the high desert, tiny streams, etc.  pretty good reading too.  he goes after the fish with a fly rod. I second the recommendation for Robert H. Smiths book.  It’s been my resourse for any question that have come up in the group over the past few years.   John Fereira

  Yes; also for a strictly scientific approach to this interesting subject, try Robert J. Behnke’s monograph of western trouts: _Native Trout of Western North America_ pub. by: American Fisheries Society 5410 Grosvenor Lane, Suite 110 Bethesda, MD  20814   Cheers, and tight Lines! – Mark

Response:

: Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the : continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the [snip] : Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this : topic? Read Lewis and Clark’s Journal.  The same fish are still here in this part of the world. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Otherwise thank all your angler fellows introducing brook trout, rainbows, and – even worse- brown trout (of course with WD) into rivers where they outcompete the natives.

[deleted] Then the hypocritical irony of calling these the ‘wild fish’ and not wanting to eat ‘em because they are beautiful wild fish. TimW

Response:

ry the Atlantic ocean. Native Stripers and Blues up to 30 lbs or more on a fly. That’s fishin!                                 Terry Weir         Right on Terry.  I grew up on Long Island sound and looked forward to every autum for a shot at those really BIG Blues.           I was speaking specifically of trout in the post though.  By the way, how is the Bluefish run shaping up this year?  It’s been a long time…… JE

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? California is loaded with native rainbows.  They are indiginous to the west slope of the sierra and are wide spread with many identifiable strains.

Do you know if the "Eagle Lake" rainbow is considered "native"? The giant Lahontan Cutthroat is gone for good, but some "almost" pure strain can still be found in the Eastern Sierra and in Pyramid Lake in Nevada.  The population in Pyramid Lake is artificially spawned each year by the Indians who control the Lake.  The original strain was wiped out with Bureau of Land Management project #1 which was the Darby Dam on the Truckee River.  

The Piute cutthroat can still be found in it’s native waters in an area a bit further south. Ralph Cutter has some great info on these trout in his book "Sierra Trout Guide".

Agreed. Robert Behnke has a good book out on Native Trout of North America (think that’s the title) but it is hard to find and expensive.

Actually Behnke’s book is called "Native Trout of Western North America".   Robert Smiths book is called "Native Trout of North America".                                  Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE you would like the book "Native Trout of North America" by Robert H. Smith published by Amato Publications.  this book is a search for native, pure strain fish.  lots of searching of the high desert, tiny streams, etc.  pretty good reading too.  he goes after the fish with a fly rod.

I second the recommendation for Robert H. Smiths book.  It’s been my resourse for any question that have come up in the group over the past few years.   John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

Try the Atlantic ocean. Native Stripers and Blues up to 30 lbs or more on a fly. That’s fishin!                                 Terry Weir

Response:

Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic?

California is loaded with native rainbows.  They are indiginous to the west slope of the sierra and are wide spread with many identifiable strains.  The Shasta rainbow is one strain that is found throughout northern CA, and the McCloud rainbow is still found in its native waters of the McCloud river in CA.  Strange thing, McCloud has the Shasta Rainbow and the McCloud (subspecies) in the same water along with the non-native brown trout (two strains of that one also).  Pure strain McCloud rainbows are easily discerned by their tangerine orange stripe and cheeks along with orange cuts under the chin.  Not often caught, but spectacular fish. There is not a question what it is when you catch one. Specific strains of Steelhead have been all but wiped out in many areas, But some native runs survive.  Skamania Strain (Washington state strain from Skamania River) hatchery replacements were introduced in many of the rivers to mitigate the destruction (and continued destruction) of their habitat.  Poor attempt at a solution. Apache trout are still found in decent numbers in one watershed on the eastern Sierra, but no fishing is allowed and it is patrolled by a back country ranger whose only territory is that particular watershed. Numerous fly fishing clubs have helped with stream reconstruction projects ther to help repair damage from grazing cattle. The giant Lahontan Cutthroat is gone for good, but some "almost" pure strain can still be found in the Eastern Sierra and in Pyramid Lake in Nevada.  The population in Pyramid Lake is artificially spawned each year by the Indians who control the Lake.  The original strain was wiped out with Bureau of Land Management project #1 which was the Darby Dam on the Truckee River.   Although they thought they provided for it, the dam wiped out all of the spawning area and within a few years, the 40 lb. + Lahontan Cutthroat were gone.  Used to be a cannery at the mouth of the Lake that netted fish, canned them, and shipped them throughout the world in the 1800’s.  Was a booming industry until the dam.  They did find some pockets of the Lahontan Cutthroat in some lakes on the east slope of the Sierra and that is what is currently in Pyramid Lake.  There is some controversy as to whether they are pure strain or not, but they don’t grow nearly as large as the native strain that was in Pyramid Lake.  Still catch 8 to 15 lb. Cutthroat there, but not much chance of breaking that 40 lb. record. Goldens can still be found in the Kern drainage (native waters), but few are pure strain as there were hatchery plants again in the 1800’s when rainbow hatcheries were thought to be the best thing since sliced bread. There are some pure strain fish still in there that were geologically isolated from the drainage they dumped the rainbow plants in.  Ralph Cutter has some great info on these trout in his book "Sierra Trout Guide". We also have lots of native squaw fish but they are not much of a gamefish and they predate on salmonids. Robert Behnke has a good book out on Native Trout of North America (think that’s the title) but it is hard to find and expensive.                                   Hope this helps,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?   snip< JE

 Try Maine, Jon.  There are still places producing  fairly good size native brook trout.   And, the landlock salmon fishing ain’t too shabby either.  However, I believe the landlocks were stocked as fingerlings years ago.  Of course you may have trouble finding *exactly* where to go. ;0) Dave L.

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

Take a look at Ralph Cutters book about the Sierra Nevada. Otherwise thank all your angler fellows introducing brook trout, rainbows, and – even worse- brown trout (of course with WD) into rivers where they outcompete the natives. Look at recent discussions about the reintroduction of native grayling into Yellowstone National Park and all the counterarguments of these f****** stupid fisherman who only want to catch lots of big fish without caring about ecological interconnections. The general agreement of environmental destruction (what else is the deminishing of species variety in a given biotop?) is responsible that you can

Question:

I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful.   The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help. Richard Fitzgerald

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  Dick Spurr’s Classis Chronicle page is reachable from my homepage listed below.  Hope this helps . . . http://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful.   The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help. Richard Fitzgerald

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I  have a friend that has an old fly rod and wants to know how much it is worth.  I’m not familiar with this particular sport, but thought maybe someone could point me to a book or internet site that would be helpful. The information he gave me was that it is made by Wright and McGill, Eagle Claw, Trailmaster 6′9", Model VM8TM, Line size 7", mini serrules. You can either email me directly (as I am not a reader of this group), or just reply here in the group and I will come back each day for a few days. Thank you for your help.

I beleive I had owned one of these rods in the mid ’70’s. A great pack rod then. I also beleive that is a combonation spin/fly,swapping the handle around to accomadate your fishing needs. I used an HCH or an HDH double taper, this sounds sort of dated but that’s the facts. Caught many fish on both spin and fly. IMHO, it was a better spin rod than a fly rod. It was all the 7wt. line rating and maybe a little more, a real noodle comparied to todays graphites. Do I miss it? Yes, just the backcountry memories. If you look close on the lable it should say that it has a life time guarantee, too. Paid about $50 new ‘74. I heard that this rod was to go back into production for around $110-145 last year or this. Your friends rod worth about $50-70 Doug Knight Posting on the road this weekend I want NO SPAM in this box, You are for warned

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Question:

"I caught the Salmon So please cook it Madam Mr.G.

If you set this to music, it would be…. …ginksta rap!    ;-) Well, you’re back.  Some of us didn’t even get to dry our hankies. Woods Hole, MA  USA I submit my resignation from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly et.la. . . . My time, my energy, my efforts are not to be wasted on a vicious majority that is unworthy of my talents and who have no claim to be regarded as ‘Fly Fishermen’. . . .

      –  George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon?

We’d like to be hearing ’bout salmon But so many posts are just spammin’ These guys really bite I wonder how tight Their mailboxes we could be crammin’ August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

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"I caught the Salmon So please cook it Madam

But go easy on the ‘leh-mon’… TimW

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here’s a poem about salmon. which is tough, because nothing rhymes with salmon…. TimW

"Ham-bone" almost does.  Maybe even T-bone.   Hmmm….. I might have something to work with here…..       Gene

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon? Dave Anderson Almond ? At least that’s the pronunciation I was given in Ca.

It shows both pronounciations (probably spelled wrong, I should look this up also) in my dictionary. Curtis Quist

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here’s a poem about salmon. which is tough, because nothing rhymes with salmon…. TimW

        Mammon, T-Bone, Mammon! David Somerville, Calgary, Alberta (where the Bow flows)

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here’s a poem about salmon.

which is tough, because nothing rhymes with salmon…. TimW

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here’s a poem about salmon. which is tough, because nothing rhymes with salmon…. TimW

When fishing for Great Lakes Chinook Salmon You’ll find all the fishermen jammin’ the banks of the stream like an awful bad dream And you’ll wish they would all be a’scrammin’. Tim, I rose to your cast like a brookie to a #12 Royal Wulff. Paul DiConza Albany, NY

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon? Dave Anderson

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon? Dave Anderson

Almond ? At least that’s the pronunciation I was given in Ca.

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon?

Mammon ? You can slam ‘em ! [on a Grannom...] TimW

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T-bone, What rhymes with salmon?  How about mammon? Dave Anderson Almond ? At least that’s the pronunciation I was given in Ca.

        RHYME FOR A DIME "I caught the Salmon So please cook it Madam Mr.G. Always liked a good camp-lacky.  Please do not send pictures.

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Question:

I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first       week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I         check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch. I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!            

I was there yesterday 5/28. The water was normal and 60.3 F. It was around 50F, ambient, with a bitter wind that made it feel like high 30s. I have never seen anything like the hatches that were there. The following were on the water all   around the same time: Cream Caddis #14, Light Hendrikson #14, Brown Drake #10 (?), Pale Evening Dun (#14), BWO (#18 or #20), March Brown (#16), Gray Fox (#16). I fished the main branch below Hancock. There was no spinner fall that I could see in the daylight hours. The hatches themselves were not very plenitful but it was enough to get fish moving. I got six fish including a 14" brownie an 18" Rainbow (the largest wild fish I have ever caught).  Truly memorable for me. I observed another fisherman land a 20" brownie. I think you are in for a good time, but do get some advice on the hatches as my understanding is that everything is a couple of weeks behind. You’ll have a lot of fun.

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Phil, I agree with your advice about going to the Delaware River Club.  It sounds like you fish the Delaware fairly regularly, so I have a question for you.  Have you ever caught a trout in the big pool at the junction of the East and West branches?  I once spent an entire day fishing there without catching anything even though fish were rising all over.  Last weekend, my dad and I each caught one riser from that pool and they both turned out to be suckers.  When the sun came out and I stood up on the banks, I could see a lot of suckers, some rising, but not one trout.  I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t see trout on the bottom in the deep water, but I’m sure I could identify them if they were rising.  I’ve never encountered rising suckers before, so up until now I assumed the pool held plenty of rising trout.  Now I have to wonder.  BTW, we did catch plenty of trout a little downstream of the junction pool.

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And don’t forget to catch Al Caucci’s web site online at www.mayfly.com for advice and the interactive match-the-hatch chart. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.    I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks! I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop f or some advice and flies. I fished up there 5/22, in the area of the PA state woodlands between Caucci’s and W.B. Anglers.  The river had only become fishable in the preceding day or so, as extremely high water brought on by seemingly incessant rains subsided.  The river was still high, but definitely wadeable and fishable.  There was a lot of hendrickson hatching and spinner-falling, but not a lot of fish activity on the surface.  Emergers seemed to work best. Normally the hendricksons are gone by early May, but everything is late this year.  You’ll probably have excellent fishing, with luck a sulfur spin ner fall which has provided me the best fishing on that river.   Also fish the Main Stem of the  Delaware below the junction of the E and W Branches in Hancock.  There are big trout there if you can cast far enough. Good luck Phil Holt

– — Steven Schwartz Bella Vena, Inc. www.panix.com/~tarpon/bellahome.html

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I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks! I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop for some advice and flies.

Ditto.   The West Branch seems to be trying too hard to be this exclusive flyfishing destination complete with the exclusive price.   Granted, the cabins at W.B.A. might be real nice but it’s the same river and the section at D.R.C. just *looks* a lot more fishable. I’ve also found that Bob and his wife (they run the flyshop) to be extremely congenial and very willing to share information.  When I was there with my girlfriend (who doesn’t fish) last year they asked her if she’d like to borrow some waders (not rent!) so that she would wade in the river with me.  While we were staying in the lodge there was a flyfishing school taking place and as I wandered by the dining area where the class had just had breakfast I asked if they had any coffee.  He said come on in an have whatever you want and the just left.  We had our choice of cereals, fruits and some breakfast rolls, or all three.   It’s these kinds of little things that makes staying in a place much more enjoyable. I also got a chance to see Al Caucci showing someone how to do a double haul.  He was amazing. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!

I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop for some advice and flies. I fished up there 5/22, in the area of the PA state woodlands between Caucci’s and W.B. Anglers.  The river had only become fishable in the preceding day or so, as extremely high water brought on by seemingly incessant rains subsided.  The river was still high, but definitely wadeable and fishable.  There was a lot of hendrickson hatching and spinner-falling, but not a lot of fish activity on the surface.  Emergers seemed to work best. Normally the hendricksons are gone by early May, but everything is late this year.  You’ll probably have excellent fishing, with luck a sulfur spinner fall which has provided me the best fishing on that river.   Also fish the Main Stem of the  Delaware below the junction of the E and W Branches in Hancock.  There are big trout there if you can cast far enough. Good luck Phil Holt

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I fished the West Branch and the main stem just below the junction of the east and west branches this weekend.  There was a sparse Hendrickson hatch above Balls Eddy (I didn’t fish upstream of the PA line, but I imagine the hatch was better upstream).  There were a few caddis in the afternoons, but not enough to bring up many fish.  Sunday afternoon there was a good caddis/hendrickson/march brown (?) hatch in the afternoon and evening on the main stem.  The water level went down at lest eight inches between Thursday and Sunday.  Since I saw mostly Hendricksons, I guess all of the hatches are probably running a few weeks later than usual.  I wish I could go back in two weeks.

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I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I

The people at West Branch will be able to direct you to various areas.   You can move around freely – find your own spots.  Right now fishing is less than ideal and fishing pressure less than usual.   See http://www.castle.net/~sglad/fishnet6.htm for additional info.

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I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I         check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to         make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!                

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Question:

Let me add another positive story.  I received a Shimano Citica for Christmas in 1992.  In late 1994, I began having problems with it not casting a reasonable distance.  I sent it to the closest "authorized service facitily" in early 1995 (OVER two years after purchase).  They informed me that the manufacturer had identified a problem with a spring mechanism.  It took about two months (that was the service facility, not the manufacturer), but I received a new, 1995 model reel. I was pretty impressed.  When I look at new reels, I always consider a Shimano. Suzanne  

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Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                               –  Alan Derrick

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It might not hurt to notify Zebco directly of your satisfaction if you haven’t already done so.  In fact, they are on line at http://www.zebco.com/ and you can E-Mail from their page.   Since they’re very accustomed to the usual flame message from customers that are dissatisified, your note along with comments about having posted to a news group on the Web might help boost their attitudes to maintaining good will via this medium.   It will also send them a message about the importance of having a pesence on the WWW and the clout that it represents.  Too many of the fishing and fly tackle manufacturers still have their heads in the sand on this one.  In the long range, a lack of presence on the WWW will not be beneficial to them. Best Regards Trent Roberson Rx F Fish – - "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish Given that we all have used this forum to post problems we have had with one or another manufacturer, I felt it was only fair to post a nice experience I had when I managed to break my 4 month old Quantum Graphite Flippin Stick.  I had luckily saved my receipt and packaged it up along with the broken rod on February 20 to send back to Zebco.   They received it on the 23rd and shipped me out a new one with no questions asked on the same day.   I received a new rod on the 27th.  This kind of fast turnaround and no-hassle policy is what will keep me buying Quantum/Zebco products in the future.                                              -  Alan Derrick

         Rx F Fish "For Your Good Health, Fly Fish" URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

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Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

A couple of hours (maybe 3) south on I-15 is the town of Beaver.  Abt 10 miles (paved) west of town is Minersville Resovoir. It’s catch & release, last weekend we caught fis in the 18-21 inch range.  BTW, a busy day on the lake is maybe 15 people. Regards, KBC

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You will be 5 miles from the Provo River and if you are a serious Fly Fisherman you will be there.  Ask any fishing store, or sports store in orem for more info of the Provo. The other guy mentioned driving 3 hours to some lake down south??? If your willing to drive 3 Hours you can get to the Green River, and ask anybody online, the Green is simply the Best! Good Luck!

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I would opt for the Provo. Although be prepared for crowded conditions on the weekends. I would second the previous post, if your going to drive south 3 hours, play golf, if you want fish hit the Green River, I can almost guarentee you won’t be sorry.

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