Question:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband.

In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..  

In my case I paid for the setting and we used a stone she had (grandmothers, perhaps? I don’t recall and it doesn’t matter). I didn’t get the setting back; she never offered and I never asked because I didn’t want it. The setting was indeed a gift from me to her so I feel I have no claims on it. I would not have accepted it if she had offered it to me. My ring was a custom piece of jewelry we picked out together, though I paid for it so technically it wasn’t a gift from her. I gave it back to her without thinking twice about it. The fewer things I have in my life that remind me of her the better.

Response:

Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. In past discussions here, it came up that quite a few times the woman bought her own ring or it was a family heirloom on her side, IOW, didn’t come from the man..

EVERYTHING comes from da man, silly girl!    (If you don’t believe me, ask Andre or Ronnie44dd.   Whattas a matter with you, anyway)?    :-)

Response:

Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

If he is this bad, you can’t leave your children to his care, I know it is tempting to get revenge on him but think of your children, they will suffer more if you went to prison.  Get out, and get your children out.  There are organisations for abused wives, get one on your side and have them help you work this out. Mandy

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!! He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

The real abuse here is the abuse that you did to yourself by staying so long.  I hope you can learn to love yourself as much as you deserve. bogey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. – It may be a good idea to buy a cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the corner and when they come to the house, then go to the house. Tell the police you need them to watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the loan amount. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send them a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on the mortgage and ruin your credit. The Car ======= If you each have a car, take the one that you use the most. If you have one car between you, the working spouse will generally get the car. Should you buy a new one? Generally, no, unless you just purchased a brand new car in the past year. Calculate the net worth of the car will help you. Net worth=Value of the car (get it from Kelly Blue Book on the web) – any loan outstanding. Here’s an example. Car A: bought 2 years ago, valued at $15,000, loan left is $13,000, so net worth is $2000. Basically, you have $13,000 in loans to pay off. If you can’t afford it, get a used car worth less than $13,000, say around $7000. Try to make small payments. This will cause you to pay more interest over the life of the loan, but you really need the cash right now. Car B: bought 5 years ago, valued at $5000, no loan outstanding. Net worth is $5000. This is the best deal, since you have no car payment in this case. Car C: new car bought last year, valued at $24,000, loan left: $25,000, net worth=-$1000. Even though this has a net worth, you still have $25,000 left in loans to pay. This is a bad deal because if you sell the car you will still have to pay $1000 to cover the loan and you will not get any money back because it has a negative net worth. Your best bet is to get a $7000 car, pay the extra $1000. Insurance for the used car will be less than for the new car anyway. What will make you look good to the judge: – If you are fair to the other spouse. (Divide assets equally. Don’t take their favorite baseball card collection just to be mean.) – If you don’t hit them, threaten them or damage their property. – If you don’t show bizarre behavior (like damaging the other’s property) – If you keep the spouse informed, like when you cancel the credit cards. – Getting the kids out of a violent home. (You must have PROOF of this violence as a recording, or police report.) What will make you look bad: – Not going to counseling when the spouse does. – Being unfair. – Being angry in court. – If you have a serious illness, like cancer, it will really reduce your chances to get the kids. – If you have a serious illness, like depression, which is not being treated, you will have a lesser chance to get the kids. – Doing drugs. – Having a police record. – Being known as the "one who’s always screaming" by the neighbors. – Having boy/girlfriends before the divorce is final. – Trying to hide assets from the spouse. – Having an affair during the marriage. (Shows lack of commitment.) – Not being real involved with the kids. – If you don’t have a job. – If you have trouble holding a job. Abuse claims Filing a false abuse claim is now illegal in some states, and it is even enforced sometimes. Find out the status of false abuse claims, perhaps by calling the police department. — "Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST

ME!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused. We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

Response:

"DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED)

This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these!

SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

IF your children want to stay in the house regardless of the fact that he is mean to you then something is wrong. IF you want to stay in the house regardless of what HE is doing to YOU then there is something VERY WRONG!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s no wonder why women put up and shut up with comments like these! SO QUIT YOUR BITCHIN, AND JUST SUE THEIR ASS!!    IT’S THE LATEST NEWAGE FAD….     GO FOR THE GOLD…. "DONT WORK IT OUT……JUST SUE IT OUT!!!" (TM @BH.  ALL RIGHTS RESERVED) This could be a winner,…do you have an agent? …nevermind,…they’re all lawyers.

Response:

Huh?  How can you even think this about the man you just previously described? I think *you* would be abusive by letting him near your kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe he is abusing his children by not being here

Response:

Lemme get this straight,…you have a stay-away order,… and you’re complaining that he never comes over? You want the house,…but you want him to repair it? I get so confused.

We are still in the same house!!!! They would not give me an extendended PFA against him. He filed a counter and said I was acting irrationally…NO WONDER….but I am not acting irrationally other than being here taking his constant harrasment. THE ONLY REASON I STAY IS BECAUSE MY CHILDREN WANT TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE!!!!!  He could repair the house, FOR THE CHILDREN! It’s not or at least shouldnt be ALL REVENGE AGAINST ME!!!

Response:

I have until Dec 3 to survive through this. At that time, we have a sole possesion of the house hearing. My lawyer and I are also filing charges as he has blatently,gone against the civil stay away order!!!!  I am trying to stay here for my boys who are 19, 17 and 15 now. My 15 year old is having problems i.e. skipping school and smoking marijuanna. To my husband, it is all about money and making sure he will not have to give me one red cent or the house!!!  He is neglecting his boys other than to take them camping once a month or fishing. HE IS NEVER HERE EVEN ON HIS DAYS OFF!!! I believe he is abusing his children by not being here and also not doing one thing in this house at all!!!  (and I am talking about necessary repairs!) He thinks he is doing that to spite me, but it is effecting them as well!!!!  He said to me last night that "He can’t believe I am still here!" because he knows he has done and said almost everything possible short of just coming out and killing me. Little does he know he almost has. He wants me to break! He knows I cant stand my house to be litterally filthy and it is daily! He wont tell the boys to do anything, because he wants to remain the good guy AT ALL TIMES!  He loves it when I get into an argument with them…becuase he feels that it is pushing them to his side!!!! He wanted me  , no he begged me to go to work, and now he is using that against me also with the kids! Last night he even said all I was doing was running up the lawyers bill! Meanwhile, I took him off my flight privledges (so he can no longer fly for free) and now he is trying to hold me in contempt of court as he filed a cross order after I did about taking me and the children off his insurance (which he threatened to do!)  These are flight privledges and if someone is on a flight and drinks too much or makes even a wierd comment or is loud, I know of employees who have lost their free flights and some who have even been fired. My lawyer wants me to put him back on just because and I say no way!!!!! He will try and do something more to me and that would be just about it!!!!!!   Why should I let him fly for free, when he took away my means of transportation…. I DONT THINK SO!!! Anyway, I don’t look too bad in black and white stripes and I will trust me!!!!! I would cherish the time away from him!!!

Response:

I can not understand why you take all that shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

How about????? Blocking you in the bathroom and kitchen under protest…not letting you out until you scream for help. How about???? Throwing coffee mugs and bottles at you How about???? Pushing you down with your body and punching you several times in the arm, back and face. Then forceably having sex with you like an ANIMAL the next night. How about??? Trying to sleep and he would wake me up with his (*&(&**(& trying to put it in while I was asleep!!! and then when I would leave to try to get sleep, he told me I wasnt allowed back in the room until I was ready to have sex with How about???? Forceably taking car keys away from you and telling you you will never drive this car again How about??? Stalking you at work and when he cant find you, driving irratically, knocking down a light pole and getting your car stuck on the cement holder. Then he came to where I work and started screaming at me and that was monitored by a supervisor in a security hallway!!! How about??? Telling your kids, your friends, and your mother you are a whore!!!! He even told the police when I called them that I was having an on going affair!!!! How about??? Taking the circut breaker out of the AC on a 90 degree day and going away for a few days and taking the timer off a whirlpool tub so you cant enjoy a 12 minute soak. How about???? Telling you and your children that you are not doing one more thing in the house until you find out if its yours and allowing the ceiling to fall in in the dining room and not even clean it up or even pick up your dirty underwear in the bathroom or do one dish,etc etc etc. Tonight he even said to me he cant believe I am still here!!!!!! because he told me to get ready for round two…. I may not survive!!!!! How about??? Telling your wife, a stay at home mom for ten years, and his children, that He was the bread winner and I did nothing for ten years but putsy around the house!!! and HOW ABOUT now after ten years of me taking care of the children totally because he worked shifts that all of a sudden now that we are getting divorced…he can get a daylight job????? Told me just wait and see who gets cutody!!!!!! How about??? Daily verbal abuse about how I look when I go to work!!!!! How about??? Him telling my sons I got a lawyer and I am jacking up his bill with what I am I am sorry….I just cant take it anymore…I had to vent here….

Response:

Once again, here’s the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "abuse": Main Entry: abuse      Pronunciation: &-’by

Question:

Sounds like a FANTASTIC day on the water,  great report jh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen. I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

Response:

(snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet

(snip)     that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno writes: (snip) It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet (snip)    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

Save a day next may.  You can sleep in the rv.  I’ll let you use my 8 weight *with* the fighting butt.  I wanna see your scrawny ass runnin down the middle of this water.  <G Louie

Response:

   that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno

There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Charles writes:    that whole thing is just crazy.  just freaking crazy.  i can’t imagine such an experience. yfitons wayno There’s a solution for that . . . . Peter

He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it.  <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

Response:

Peter He’s used to catching iddy biddy trout the size of his dick, Peter.  He wouldn’t dream of going up and fishing with us.  The largest rod he has is a 2 weight – we’d have to loan him equipment and probably teach him how to cast it. <seg  This water is meant for PJ and combat fishing. Louie (who hopes insults will move his scrawny ass)

That small eh?  In that case, I would think a 0 weight would be more appropriate.  If he came, we’d probably need a bosun’s chair just to lower him out of the boat.  BTW, think he can even lift an 8 wt.?  If he ever hooked a salmon, he’d probably throw the rod overboard from sheer fright.    (how am I doin’?) Peter

Response:

It’s late, I’m beat, the pirate is whacked – this TR is gonna be short. Up at 4:30 and, on the road at 5:15, arrived at the store at 6:00, on the water by 8:00 and home by 9:00pm.   Louie before the trip, "I’m gonna take my 6 wt."   Told the Pirate not to bother with his vest or the 6 wt.   Well, we’re at the put-in and John Valk (owner/guide) is going "Nyet" to the 6 wt.  Out comes the 8 wt.  Now I’m looking at Louie and the fighting butt on the 8 wt. is missing, "I took it off." he says.  Silly boy.  By the end of the day, there’s no vest, the 6 wt. never left its tube and he has a hole in his sternum where he had stuck the reel seat on repeated occasions. Best shot of the day – watching Louie’s face as his backing rapidly disappears.  Second best shot of the day, seeing Louie running 100 yds downstream trying to retrieve his backing – after vaulting out of the drift boat. Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Details at 6:00. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one piece (including the anglers).   Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ? Remove "XX" from address

We saw a few but the real run hasn’t gone going yet.  We need colder temps and a *lot* more water. As John fussed with the boat and stuff, there were a bunch of salmon playing in the shallows.  I had a poke at them with the big stick but no joy.  With that experience, I put it away and took out a single hander. Dave got out a rarely used Orvis 8 wt. with a big sinktip that proved to be a difficult line to use in the low water conditions. Dave, by his own admission, was unsure what this fishing would be about and when we found a pod of about 20 salmon cavorting about, he had two silver dollars for eyeballs.   John has a particular way of doing a wet fly swing (he likes the fly oriented north-south – I tend to a broadside presentation) but we both used John’s technique.  We swim the fly in front of the pod and hope that a big, pissed-off male will charge out and nail it.  Frequently, we were not disappointed and Dave got a very lively fish out of this pod within a couple of minutes. Dave hooked up first (a fish probably in the low teens) which promptly peeled off all of his line and a good quantity of backing.  It was a great intro to Saugeen salmon fishing.  He eventually ended up about 100 yards downstream where the fish was netted. A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. The Saugeen was especially low and clear so the fish were always very obvious.  We drifted over a few steelhead, loads of huge smallies, some browns, red horse suckers, carp, and a few unidentified.  The colours were especially bright in the high sun, and with the warm day, it was a very pleasant trip all-round. Final results were something like four fish each landed and multiple hookups (including one double).  Most of the fish were in the teens but one of mine was over 20 lbs.  We saw and hooked a few bruisers that ran over 30.  All of them took off in long runs.  Some of the fish were quite aerobatic with jumps, lunges and tumbles that often resulted in them being wrapped up in line.  One of mine began to fight funny after a few minutes. On initial hookup, the fish stuck his head out of the water with an open mouthed head shake that told of a fair hook.  By the time we got him landed, the fly was still in his mouth but he had about five winds of line around one fin.  Dave had one where the fly started off in it’s mouth and ended up in it’s tail.  We figured it too got wrapped up in line and then the fly came loose only to reattach. I’ll have a trip on my site by next week with pics that will give some indication of the river and the fish.   It was fun as always having the Pirate up and Thanksgiving dinner will long be remembered for the gales of laughter and the sore sides we had in the morning. Plans are in the offing for the next trip. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes: <great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Don’t wait too long. Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o)

At the Salmon River, Saugeen next week. Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile.

probably brighter than those bright blue Audi headlights. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.  

It was a memorable day fer sure.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold. If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G

You mean, like again! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Peter Charles writes:

<great report/info snipped Plans are in the offing for the next trip.

Ok, I can’t make it tomorrow, but Friday is open!  d;o) Got home after an 8 hour drive (512 miles) in pouring rain, but every time I thought of those fish, I began to smile. If you’ve  fished with me, you know I don’t move around too well.  Legs and feet are very sore, but hotdamn, ya get an 18 pound salmon on a fly rod and he begins one (1) run that takes you well into your backing, ya hafta fall/leap out of the boat and run after the damn thing.  It ain’t fair.  But, is sure is heart thumping and adrenaline pumping.  And then, the bastid comes running back at you; once your get your line all wound up and clear,  he’s off on another run  into the backing   It is definitely weird to be running downstream in knee-deep water, with your flyrod high and see a fish jump 250 feet in front of you and realize that you are connected to that fish with a hundred feet of line, a hundred and forty feet of backing , 10 feet of 10 pound tippet and a fly that you *know* is gonna go straight any second.  Multiply that by 4 and you have an idea of the day Peter and I had on the Saugeen.   I know where Peter lives.  I’ll be back, with a 10 foot 7 weight *with a fighting butt*, a Lamson 3.5 large arbor filled with wf line and as much backing as it can hold.  If not next month, Peter, count on late April/early May.  And this time we open the 18 year old stuff.  <G Dave

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Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks?

Nope, we were hoping for steelhead but the conditions were too warm and the water too low.  We saw lots of smallies but with the low, clear water, we saw them when we spooked them.   Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

I used the term ‘natural’ to mean naturally reproducing.  While these chinook exhibit superior characteristics as compared to their stocked cousins, I haven’t seem the same difference between natural and stocked browns on the Grand.  That may have something to do with how the Grand stocking program is managed. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I thought that Ontario had stopped stocking chinook altogether, but I guess not, eh ?   The strain of chinook used for stocking is one that does not move in until quite late.  I’ve read that what has happened in some cases where natural reproduction has been established is that over generations the salmon have tended to come into rivers earlier and earlier prior to spawning.  It sounds like the Saugeen is one of them.

I’ve always understood that Credit River chinook were stocked as the prospects for natural reproduction were poor.  John confirmed that they were stockers. I’ve not heard about earlier runs but with the Saugeen being farther north, an earlier run is to be expected.  There’s no question that they are much healthier fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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      Anyway, a bunch of very feisty chinook was had and all returned in one   piece (including the anglers).       Sounds great.  Were there any steelhead in as yet ?     Remove "XX" from address       A couple of points about these fish.  Credit River salmon are stocked   and live in Lake Ontario whereas the Saugeen fish are naturals and   live in Lake Huron.  You cannot imagine how much difference this   results in.  Saugeen fish, even 70 miles upstream, are fairly bright   and in excellent shape.  Credit River stockers are only a few miles up   stream and already black and rotting.  The Saugeen fish takes off at a   high rate of knots when released, even after a long fight.  He’s   usually back cavorting in a minute or two.  Credit River fish often   roll over an die upon release after a half-hearted fight.  John told   us a story of catching the same chinook three times in succession and   it fought just as hard the third time as it did the first. Sounds like a great trip. Sight fishing for big fish, can’t beat that! Did you catch anything other than the Chinooks? Not sure I’d call the the Saugeen fish "natural" but the same differences you found here between the stocked and streambred salmon also applies to trout. Even though the genetics might be the same, the stocked fish act differently even after being in the wild for a considerable time. Willi

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Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time anyhow. As this is still my first full season of fly fishing, our annual Sierra trek was to be an opportunity to test all that I’ve learned on some of my favorite waters.  Intimidated by the topo of the Pine Creek trail, our group opted to hire a packer to get us to the pass.  As diehard backpackers, none of us had ridden before, and I have to admit that a couple of us had less-than-favorable attitudes towards pack animals.  Five hours later, though, we were deposited at a spot that would have taken us two days to reach…no more snotty attitudes towards horses! Our base camp was at a bench lake on the south side of French Canyon.  From this temporary home surrounded by 13,000 foot peaks we had access to more than a dozen lakes that hold healthy populations of golden trout.  The days were sunny but verrrry windy, and casting was often a challenge for this FF newbie.  We experimented with a variety of patterns, but the fish seemed most eager for terrestrials, at least during daylight hours.  Hoppers, ants, and attractors like stimulators and royal trudes (12 – 16) were universal hits.  The fish we caught certainly weren’t trophy size, running perhaps 9", but they were very worthy fighters.  Besides, golden trout are so beautiful that we really didn’t mind.  I must have missed three strikes for each one that I connected with, but greater skill will surely come with practice.  On two evenings we were lucky enough to witness what I believe were midge hatches that brought every fish in the lake to the surface.  An honest description of the numbers of leaping fish would never be believed…the water was simply boiling with trout.  Amazing. We hiked out on the fifth day, and I had the chance to give my 4wt a workout in Pine Creek for small rainbows to 8".  I pieced this outfit together based on what several ROFFians have said in their posts, and I absolutely love it for small creeks.  A Redington CT 3/4 (praised by Willi, I believe), on a 7′6" Cabela’s PT rod (I went to the archives for this).  The DT4 line (Mike Conner) is a cheapie Dorber (suggested by many here).  I mention this only to thank everyone for the wealth of good information that finds its way to the group.  It has been an immense help to me.  I’ll try to post a couple of pictures to ABPF when the film gets back.  Thanks for the forum! Cheers, Bill

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Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time

anyhow. <snip Great report. Thanks, Bill. — TL, Tim

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Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time anyhow. …. Cheers, Bill

Bill Thanks for a great report. Count me among the former purists in the matter of using pack stock. Back Country fly selection is pretty non-critical. My usual answer to what patterns to take is "Yes take flies." However when they start springing for the midges in evening hatch, something in the size 20 range can be helpful, but again just what is not critical. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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Question:

Fly fishing woman wanted…. I’m a 41, slim, intelligent  (I hope) Australian male, who’s gainfully employed, passionate about life, the universe, travel & fly fishing. You – hopefully similar to the above & relax – no need to know how to scale or gut fish, as I let them go to catch another day.

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Fly fishing woman wanted….

Well, best of luck to ya, mate — but if anybody offers to meet with you while wearing a pink satan evening gown, run like hell… In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. Kevin, Roffian matchmaker

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Thank you Kevin Pink’s never been my favourite color anyway

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly fishing woman wanted…. Well, best of luck to ya, mate — but if anybody offers to meet with you while wearing a pink satan evening gown, run like hell… In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. Kevin, Roffian matchmaker

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In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess.

She’s married and having a baby. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Fly fishing woman wanted…. I’m a 41, slim, intelligent  (I hope) Australian male, who’s gainfully employed, passionate about life, the universe, travel & fly fishing. You – hopefully similar to the above & relax – no need to know how to scale or gut fish, as I let them go to catch another day.

You forgot "Send picture of rod"…;-) Wish You luck, having a partner with the same interest would make life a lot easier, trust me… (are You going fishing again…, I never get out anything…) Stefan

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In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. She’s married and having a baby.

She has friends! — I fly fish so therefore I am.

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Make sure she will clean the fish! — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

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She’s married and having a baby.

Orvis Boy?

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Orvis Boy?

Yep. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Question:

I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  

I have a Wilderness System’s Ride and it’s great to fish from. I don’t think I could tip it over if I wanted to. — Charlie…

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My experience with SOT’s is that they are wet and you need to wear neoprene on cool days. I have fished from my Folbot double kayak with OK results. Too bad inflatables are deflatables. I am now looking at the Kiwi Lobo and the Poke Boat.  Duck hunters like the Poke, so it is probably the most commodious.  However, the Lobo is supposed to be way nicer to paddle. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I recently purchased a Cobra Explorer Sit on Top.  These sit on tops are great and I already been doing very well both in salt and fresh water with it.   Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying / Rod Building Equipment, Tackle… http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

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I’ve been using a Prism by Perception for about four months now and am pleased with the overall performance. It tracks well,is quiet, and quick. Did an overnighter float from below Austin, Texas to Bastrop and was pleasantly surprised by just how many unnecessary items I could fit into the two large hatches. …downsides: The bottom of the boat where your feet rest always has water in it. easily two inches of water. Can’t stand up on it. If you have decent balance, you can stand up to cast with a Malibu 2, but try paddling one of those tankers. I’ve also seen the front end dip under water when paddling with and riding some small waves kicked up by the wind. and this is on a lake, no telling how it would do in surf.   Casting sitting down is not a problem, I just can’t cast as far. It’s fun to fish from  and( a decent sized fish will drag you around), to me, the space in the hatches outweighs the water at my feet. I’ve taken to placing a couple of those car-top foam blocks under the footpegs… keeps the feet dry. Good luck, PZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

Talking it over with the SO (she says the only real advantage to the Frenzy is smaller females can rack it easily, but I agree it is more river-friendly, FWIW) and another kayaking friend, we agree with your points 1, 2, and 3, but have you looked at the O.K. Scrambler?  A little bigger, more stable – done the Yucatan, Alaska, Keys, Texas Coast, etc. on one, you can even easily dive from one – but again, not quite as easy handling on a river.  Have you talked to Southwest Paddle Sports?  They have a website I think.  Talk to Patty and tell her Eliz and the gang from Ft. Worth set ya.   HTH? TC, R

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I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I know nothing of kayaks but so long as you’re soliciting feedback please allow me to congratulate you on one of your quips that has long been one of my favorite quotes: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.                                   -Raoul Duke- — Ken Fortenberry

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sitting in (a kayak not music) has to be more stable (secure not horse) than sitting on top ( boats not se…..never mind) john (I’m fishin out of a keowee) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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Question:

Looks great!  Wish I could be there. Thanks,Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com WIN ANY SAGE ROD AND A one OF 3 250.00 gift certificates. Before you buy.

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This event is on again starting 8 Apr 00 at Mooloolaba, Sunshine Coast Australia. Our brochure is out now and if anyone would like a copy drop me quick info try our web site at www.australianfishing.net There are three tournaments involved: The Longtail Tuna Chase The Mercury Marine Lure & Fly Shoot Out The Game Flyfishing Invitational Some notables visiting are Cam Sigler (Snr & Jnr), Jack Samson, John Ryzanich, our own Peter Hayes and a heap of others. Peter will be out showing the finer details of that huge cast of his. Hope to see you there. —-

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Question:

I would like to know if there is any good flyfishing in NewEngland Jan,Feb,March.

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Matty Boy, I response to your query, I may only speak for Vermont.  The fishing for steelhead and browns can be good but it is unpredictable.  Lewis Creek, the Lamoille and Upper Connecticut are all options when a cold snap is followed by a warm-up.  Your timing has to be right on for it to be productive in terms of fish caught.  Otherwise it could be thought of as being productive in a character-building sense alone. James Ehlers Underhill, VT

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I would like to know if there is any good flyfishing in NewEngland Jan,Feb,March.

As I’m sure others will comment, the swift river in central Mass is a very popular winter fishing site.  The fishing is directly below the Quabbin Reservoir just outside of Belchertown.  If the weather isn’t arctic (i.e. reasonably calm and 25 Degrees or more) there will likely be a midge hatch going on.  The key to matching the hatch is size 24 midge patterns with a dark green thread body.  Lots of big fish, very hard to hook and harder to land.   Stay Warm and keep the ice off of your line! Randy

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Question:

I have an e-mail freind who lives in Michigan who would like to join a fly fishing club ! She lives in Ann Arbor area ! Please e-mail me any info you have or may be a small list of shops in the area which are recommended? General question ; Is there a site on the WEB which lists Fly Fishing clubs and or organizations ie. FFF Trout Unlimited ect. ??? Thanks in advance Rich Lob Left Coaster Livermore Fly Fishers

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Check with MacGregors in AA 616-761-9200. I think a TU group meets at their fly shop. Ann

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The Ann Arbor chapter of Trout Unlimited is going to meet at Community High School, starting next month.  The meetings are usually on the third Wednesday night of the month.  Carl Heuter is the current president (in the A2 phone book), and MacGregor’s is another good place to get the meeting information.

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Question:

Greetings all! I am searching for larger sizes (3X to 6X) of sports wear.  Desperately need a fly fishing vest, waders and life jacket to fit my *wider* extremities.  Anyone know of reputable mail-order vendors in USA which specialize in these articles? Rick Kritikos — I’ve heard all the flames about loosing weight and you can get your clothes to fit… so keep ‘em to yourself… or I will sit on you…

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Greetings all! I am searching for larger sizes (3X to 6X) of sports wear.  Desperately need a fly fishing vest, waders and life jacket to fit my *wider* extremities.  

Rick Cabelas has a number of large sizes up to 4x on many fishing items and clothing as well. I also purchased custom made waders from Marathon through Gander Mtn. Good Fishing JonRC

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Rick, I went back and looked up your posting…waders for big or small people are not a problem there are several companies, Hodgeman for instance will make your exact size…Vests are a problem XXL is as big as I’ve seen, however there is a pretty good solution available…a lot of people are offering pack systems that are adjustable for any size- Predator and The Creek Company both offer a pack. I’m not a small person either, so if you run across anything that works for big guys please drop me a note. Drop me a note with your name and address and I’ll send you a copy of our catalog on a disk (or two).  We will be sending them sometime in the next week. Tom King King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co P.O. Box 304 Addison IL 60101

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, so there. 4" crappie KING. Mark

Oh yeah!!  *I* was learning to fly fish and was casting onto a pond the size of most people’s driveways, when this Bluegill took the wiggly-green- legged floating fly I had selected to practice with (easy to see).  The hook was about a #8 (big for a fly), and the Bluegill was *exactly* 2 inches long… Brian — Brian Dixon, Machine Vision Engineer, Hewlett Packard (Corvallis, Oregon)

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  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"   red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.   The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.   The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —      _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3"  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish.  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin.  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. —     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer  

I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, so there. 4" crappie KING. Mark

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:  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3" :  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish. : :  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin. :   :  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. :   :   : : — :     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo : |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   : : I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about : their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) : I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, : so there. : 4" crappie KING. : Mark I got a small trout (1" ) on a pheasant tail nymph last thursday. It was a hell of a fight. Thought I never would get it up! He/she was in fine condition so I released it after. Actually I didn’t know I had a fish on until I had made two or three dry casts. But I got a lot of big trouts and growlings (I think its the name in english) — – Peter Aberg         –     _____.              - – S-302 33 HALMSTAD   –              /          - + Tel:46-35-187617    +          O  /           +               – http://www.hh.se:7777/       Flyfish          -  ____        __                   /  _`     / __                 L __ ,_    __   _ __     /  __/ _/  __/ /     _ ____\ __ ____\ _

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :  I was out in the Gulf over the week end and caught a 2.5 to 3" :  red grouper on an 8/0 Hook.  The hook was bigger then the fish. : :  The bait was a 6" frozen sardin. :   :  The hook was just wedged in its mouth and it couldn’t get off. :   :   : : — :     _______   o  |  Gone fish’n in KoKoMo : |_/ ——   o |  Carl Traenkner, Lead Software Engineer   : : I never thought I would see the day when fishermen would brag about : their small fish, but at least I have something to brag about here! ;^) : I have caught more 4" crappie than all of your dinky fish put together, : so there. : 4" crappie KING. : Mark I got a small trout (1" ) on a pheasant tail nymph last thursday. It was a hell of a fight. Thought I never would get it up! He/she was in fine condition so I released it after. Actually I didn’t know I had a fish on until I had made two or three dry casts. But I got a lot of big trouts and growlings (I think its the name in english) —

Well here’s mine. :^) I caught a 4" perch on a 9" swim whiz while trolling for muskies last Sat. He wasn’t foul hooked either he was hooked in the upper lip by a single hook from the middle treble. BTW Thanks to all the folks who took time to respond to my question about fronts. I will remember the good advice. Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - Peter Aberg         –     _____.              - – S-302 33 HALMSTAD   –              /          - + Tel:46-35-187617    +          O  /           +           – http://www.hh.se:7777/       Flyfish          - ____        __                   /  _`     / __                 L __ ,_    __   _ __     /  __/ _/  __/ /   _ ____\ __ ____\ _

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I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each… Scott Goodwin — |      /|~~~ |EAT. SLEEP. FISH.   "PLAY BALL!" (my 2 favorite words)

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I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each…

I’ve never seen a (yellow) perch smaller than 6", but I have caught those little rock bass.  They are especially aggressive from dusk to darkness. I have a bag of #22 hooks in my tacklebox, along with some 1 lb line.  I have caught redbreast sunfish less than an in with this setup. Just this past Sunday I caught 5 3" striped bass from a small estuary of the Long Island sound.  They were so cute, I wanted to take them home and put them in an aquarium, but they were about 33" short of the 36" minimum! Scott Goodwin — |      /|~~~ |EAT. SLEEP. FISH.   "PLAY BALL!" (my 2 favorite words)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was fishing in a lake near my home in Lebanon, NH and I was pulling out 1-1/2 rock bass and perch for hours, I’d use a salmon egg hook with a worm on it, and these TINY little fish would attack them, and I’d just pull them out of the water, it was pretty fun because the big bass weren’t biting, but has anypne else heard of tiny fish biting like that? I think I caught several of them 2-3 time each… I’ve never seen a (yellow) perch smaller than 6", but I have caught those little rock bass.  They are especially aggressive from dusk to darkness. I have a bag of #22 hooks in my tacklebox, along with some 1 lb line.  I have caught redbreast sunfish less than an in with this setup. Just this past Sunday I caught 5 3" striped bass from a small estuary of the Long Island sound.  They were so cute, I wanted to take them home and put them in an aquarium, but they were about 33" short of the 36" minimum!

I’ve got a place on the Winnipeg River in Manitoba, and my dock sits in a small bay used by little feeders while they’re growing up. I use the smallest hook I have, stick a bit of worm on it, and it gets hit within 30 seconds every time. Usually yellow perch 3 or 4 inches long, the odd 6 inch walleye, the odd bass.  Of course the only time we do this is when I’m teaching my two year old son how to fish. He just beams every time he gets one! Plus they hit so light, the hook only gets them in the lip, so we’ve never (to my knowledge) done serious damage to one. Later, when asked how big his fish was, he stands up on his tip-toes and raises his hand high above his head – he’s gonna be a heckuva fisherman.

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