Question:

Man, that does sound like a fun technique! Here, fishy, fishy… john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My kennel manager is on vacation, so lots of work for me, but I have been getting out for an hour or two after dinner. Fishing has been good and I’ve come across something I find interesting. At sunset, there are large numbers of spinners (I’m guessing they’re spinners but I haven’t been able to catch one) flying just over the surface occasionally skimming it. There are also some large Mayfly duns and a small Mayfly duns on the surface. There are a few splashy rises from fish chasing emergers but by far the majority of the "risers" are fish jumping clear out of the water to snag one of the spinners flying over the surface. I’ve seen this on an occasional basis, but some of the fish are doing this from a set feeding station and are jumping for the flies on a regular basis. This includes some decent fish. They totally ignore any of the duns that drift by. The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish. I’ve been able to catch a few of them swinging soft hackles. I’ve also caught a some on a dry or emerger tied on an upper a bloodknot dropper with a weighted nymph below. The weighted nymph serves as an anchor and by holding the rod high, the fly on the dropper can be made to skim the surface, stay above it or bounce on the surface. It’s the closest I can come to imitating the hovering flies. It’s been moderately effective with lots of missed fish jumping at the fly but it’s a fun technique. Willi

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……The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish……

I suspect the energy expenditure is not as great as you might think. Fish are streamlined.  Putting on a short burst of speed which will carry them out of the water probably doesn’t cost them a great deal of effort.  The fact that they do so frequently for what seems a small reward bears suggests it is energy efficient. Wolfgang

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Willi    Try dapping.  Get some unwaxed dental floss (or silk floss, I prefer sky blue, the fish seem to ignore it) and cut about six 8 foot pieces.  Lay ‘em out side-by-side and knot the ends together.  Put a 3 foot tippet on one end and tie the other end to your fly line.  Get the longest pole you have and wait for a little bit of a wind.  The floss works as sail and you can skitter the fly over the surface of just above the surface like a hovering insect.  I’ve only caught two fish with the fly in the air but its a trip (okay, I snagged a couple more).  You just let the fish set the hook on itself.  Your natural reaction is to pull it away, don’t move.  Bigger the fly, the more lines of floss and vice versa.  You can use this technique while hiding in bushes on the bank. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Willi   Try dapping.  Get some unwaxed dental floss (or silk floss, I prefer sky blue, the fish seem to ignore it) and cut about six 8 foot pieces.  Lay ‘em out side-by-side and knot the ends together.  Put a 3 foot tippet on one end and tie the other end to your fly line.  Get the longest pole you have and wait for a little bit of a wind.  The floss works as sail and you can skitter the fly over the surface of just above the surface like a hovering insect.  I’ve only caught two fish with the fly in the air but its a trip (okay, I snagged a couple more).  You just let the fish set the hook on itself.  Your natural reaction is to pull it away, don’t move.  Bigger the fly, the more lines of floss and vice versa.  You can use this technique while hiding in bushes on the bank.

        this is the weirdest damn place i have ever been.         yfitons wayno

Response:

My kennel manager is on vacation, so lots of work for me, but I have been getting out for an hour or two after dinner. Fishing has been good and I’ve come across something I find interesting. At sunset, there are large numbers of spinners (I’m guessing they’re spinners but I haven’t been able to catch one) flying just over the surface occasionally skimming it. There are also some large Mayfly duns and a small Mayfly duns on the surface. There are a few splashy rises from fish chasing emergers but by far the majority of the "risers" are fish jumping clear out of the water to snag one of the spinners flying over the surface. I’ve seen this on an occasional basis, but some of the fish are doing this from a set feeding station and are jumping for the flies on a regular basis. This includes some decent fish. They totally ignore any of the duns that drift by. The flies are only about a size 16/18, so this jumping doesn’t seem "energy efficient" but me, but I’m no fish. I’ve been able to catch a few of them swinging soft hackles. I’ve also caught a some on a dry or emerger tied on an upper a bloodknot dropper with a weighted nymph below. The weighted nymph serves as an anchor and by holding the rod high, the fly on the dropper can be made to skim the surface, stay above it or bounce on the surface. It’s the closest I can come to imitating the hovering flies. It’s been moderately effective with lots of missed fish jumping at the fly but it’s a fun technique.   Willi

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Question:

Darn it!!! Try this:

Nice TR snipped. Proof that persistence pays in fishing AND formatting Steve

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I hope the formatting comes through correctly TR:  Putah Creek – above Winters, CA Just thought I should get a

Question:

I am venturing into Vail in a week for vacation, fly fishing as well as shooting the Colorado wild ……Am amateur shooter,  I will shoot mainly around that area and the Rocky Mtn NP area….the elk are rutting and have come down from the high country as well as moose…. but mainly at dusk are the typical time schedules they follow although many can be shot in full daylight across meadows, you just cant predict nature…… with this type of low  light, I am wondering what film speed for such shots that I wish to blow up with out much grain showing….. Minolta HTsi +……TOKINA 28-105 …1:35-4.5 and Sigma 70-210 1:45-5.6……tripod…..and Jeep XJ Thanks All: Phil

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I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops. John O.

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Yes and not when he is standin the water….   : )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops. John O.

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<< I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops. As soon as I saw the thread header I figured it wouldn’t be long before someone recommended a caliber or a particular rifle but I must admit this was faster than I imagined . . .

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    You are going to need a fast car,  those guys are not real friendly — Dia ’s Muire duit Joe M

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I know this is off topic but will a 270 really stop an Elk?  I’ve never hunted Elk but I’ve seen them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes and not when he is standin the water….   : ) I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops. John O.

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After the shot from the 270, you will need something to haul him in. Forget the car. Eric Miller

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     You are going to need a fast car,  those guys are not real friendly — Dia ’s Muire duit Joe M

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Film?  All speed you can get! With a f/5.6 lens in low light you’ll need ISO 800-1600 to get any decent shutter speed.  At that speed almost anything will do – Fuji or Kodak. But with your relatively short lenses, you have a very small chance to approach an elk in the wild…400-500 mm glass is more suitable, although once an Elk run just past me in RMNP while I stood like a dolt with a 400 mm lens… Perhaps you can get some decent pics from the road on the meadows in the RM Park, but it’s getting too late for that.  Anyway, if you wish to try, use the Estes Park Entrance (a rather long rode from Vail – back over the pass, the Eisenhower tunnel, Boulder to Estes Park. – 150+ miles each way.) Or you can try the Grand Lake area – much closer, go in the direction of Winter Park, but there may be no way to drive far into the Park through the west entrance as Trail Ridge Road closes around mid-October. (Try http://www.coloradoguide.com/rmnp/frame1.htm   for more info.) In any event, Grand Lake is very picturesque. Michael

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am venturing into Vail in a week for vacation, fly fishing as well as shooting the Colorado wild ……Am amateur shooter,  I will shoot mainly around that area and the Rocky Mtn NP area….the elk are rutting and have come down from the high country as well as moose…. but mainly at dusk are the typical time schedules they follow although many can be shot in full daylight across meadows, you just cant predict nature…… with this type of low  light, I am wondering what film speed for such shots that I wish to blow up with out much grain showing….. Minolta HTsi +……TOKINA 28-105 …1:35-4.5 and Sigma 70-210 1:45-5.6……tripod…..and Jeep XJ Thanks All: Phil

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I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops.

Model 70 Winchester in .300 or .338 WinMag and 3.5×10 Nikon scope.  Then you can get really close to the elk for photos.  (Fuji Superia 400 will hold up to some decent enlargement.  It’s my favorite fast print film, although I still haven’t tried the new Kodak stuff….) Good shooting, Bob Scott

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150 heavy bullet, good placement, dead in their tracks. John O.

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@aol.com says… I would use a 270 winchester with a 6X scope. You could go for a 7×57, but limit the shots to broadside and 300 yards tops. John O.

        Wow the hipocracy of it, one minute your taking pictures of it the next you want to kill it. — James Grove http://www.jamesgrove.co.uk

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Wow the hipocracy of it, one minute your taking pictures of it the next you want to kill it.

Can’t you eat elk?

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   Wow the hipocracy of it, one minute your taking pictures of it the next you want to kill it.

Twit, you shoot it first, then come the photos. John O.

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Shooting any kind of deer requires a long lens (in at least the 400mm range generally). Try to borrow or rent a lens like this and also try to get a 1.4x teleconverter (to use with the long lens as well as your Sigma). Forget the slow films, you need speed. An ASA100 film may have smaller grain but that will do you no good if the elk moves while using a long shutter speed. I would not hesitate to use a film of at least 400ASA to get the fastest shutter speed as possible in the low light conditions. You may also be dealing with wind as the air begins to warm, which will require the fast film and shutter cable, even while on the tripod. If you find you need even more speed, push the roll one stop. If you desire a close up shot, a Remington bolt with 30/06 180gr and Swarovski scope will get you in range (if you don’t flinch or get buck fever). You’ll then be able to use an ASA25 with tripod mounted camera. :~) Richard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am venturing into Vail in a week for vacation, fly fishing as well as shooting the Colorado wild ……Am amateur shooter,  I will shoot mainly around that area and the Rocky Mtn NP area….the elk are rutting and have come down from the high country as well as moose…. but mainly at dusk are the typical time schedules they follow although many can be shot in full daylight across meadows, you just cant predict nature…… with this type of low  light, I am wondering what film speed for such shots that I wish to blow up with out much grain showing….. Minolta HTsi +……TOKINA 28-105 …1:35-4.5 and Sigma 70-210 1:45-5.6……tripod…..and Jeep XJ Thanks All: Phil

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Question:

In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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RW: I know that you are not as clumsy as I am, but I would suggest being sure you have bent the barbs down on all the flies that you tie on the leader…I know that any flies that do not have fish on them seem to hook me on a regular basis and the flies are less painful to remove from me if the barbs are bent down. Big Dale

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I don’t know that I’d *recommend* it, but one of the people I fish with had on a big wool indicator for nymphing and switched to a small BWO when we saw a few come off.  He left the indicator on – funniest thing I ever saw on the river (no, wait, he also wears Aqua Stealth shoes, so I’ve seen a few funnier things).  He did catch fish and nobody else on that stretch caught anything on a BWO.  Whether luck or a good idea, I can’t say.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t know that I’d *recommend* it, but one of the people I fish with had on a big wool indicator for nymphing and switched to a small BWO when we saw a few come off.  He left the indicator on – funniest thing I ever saw on the river (no, wait, he also wears Aqua Stealth shoes, so I’ve seen a few funnier things).  He did catch fish and nobody else on that stretch caught anything on a BWO.  Whether luck or a good idea, I can’t say.

I usually just look for the rise when I’m fishing a small fly that I can’t see, but I think that often the fish just gently sip the fly in and I never see the take. That’s what was happening when I was using the big stimulator as an indicator. It would sink, I’d strike, and I’d have a fish on the small dropper dry fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing.

I’ve done that, and originally got the idea as a recommendation in a ffing book. The two applications I saw for this were fishing hatches so heavy that it’s hard to keep track of your artificial amid the naturals, and fishing very small patterns especially at a distance. I used this system a few years back, fishing to midging trout on the Bighorn. It was a lot easier to keep track of the yarn indicator than the #20-22 flies I was using. Also, using the yarn as a locator, I could often spot the fly itself. Maybe not the purest method, but it worked well. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Question:

I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I would <snipped

this is the most gawdamnest advertising strategy i’ve ever seen. lines & business pretty slack in the keys, eh? –waldo

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Ditto!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I think he’s trying to sell lace panties to fisherman. In that case, I’ll take two. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

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Funny that, I didn’t even bother to read the original post but I’m lost – especially about the bizarre ones that follow this directly –  frodo etc. Sorry chaps (actually I think you ,frodo jump tarpon et al] are really all the same one) but your strategy is so odd and obtuse that I couldn’t care less what you say about each other, or is that about yourself?  You are confusing me with someone who gives a damn! Right on Ernie and Walt!! DBJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM?

I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

Ask TimBone ;^)

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I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like. Ask TimBone ;^)

Ouch!  That was hard!  God I love this place! W

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Question:

Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

Hi All,  Like so many other things in life, short/light rods are not for everyone. Here in Northern California, we have some ( hundred?  thousands? ) small streams that have ‘tons’ of fish under 10 inches. Today (things might change in week or so) I would personally choose to fish them with a Sage 8′2"#2 SPL or an 8′#2 Winston or some other little beauty. Think of fishing as fun. Well, what I would like to use really doesn’t count in the big picture. I think this is a problem with everything in life. Why should anyone expect everyone else to agree with them unless they think they know the answers to life??? Why are we so upset when someone else wants to do it a different way?  I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" No, you suggest that is a very short rod that is very specialized. Then you would find out, as I have so many times, that this person has several short rods that are all slightly longer than 6′ and he loves them. Get the picture? I think it is sad that there are fly fisherman that try to shove their person beliefs down everyone else throat. Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have

all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out.

My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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<wisdom snipped I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" <snip

Didn’t Lee Wulff often fish a 6′6" fiberglass Garcia for Atlantic Salmon? With enough time on the water, I may one day be 1/10th the idiot he was. Mu Young Lee    Ann Arbor, MI  USA

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Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene.

I would agree completely, Wayne, except that I think I said that before about one of Bill’s posts.  Or was it Mike Conner?  Or maybe Willi…… or perhaps Skeeter….?  Who the hell knows, but this was a great one. Mark Faulkner

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I got one 3 years ago for fishing brushy creeks and it worked perfectly for casting under the canopy. On trips to the Klamath Basin and the San Juan River I took it along for dry fly fishing and found the 3-weight line gave me a decided advantage in delicate presentations; I had no trouble with rainbows to 22". Needless to say, it’s useless for fishing strike indicator situations such as Lee’s Ferry, but it’s not a problem to cast 60′.

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How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less.

I agree that different gear choices mean different perspectives.  Guys who fish mainly in the salt, for instance, probaby have little appreciation for the delicate feel of a nice 3-wt.  But I disagree about the brush and bushwacking. Being in Montana, I have bigger rods, 5-6 wts., natch, but I take my little rod when I am going to bushwack.  I keep it in its tube, which is smaller and easier to lash onto a backpack or my hip pack (for daytrips) and hike up into the little tribs, or the smaller wilderness streams, where an 18-inch cutt is liable to be the biggest fish I’m going to meet.  In fact, I primarily use my three weight on days when I’m probably not going to see another soul.

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OK, Ok, Ok Ill try someones 3 weight this summer. At least once. By the way, some of this reminds me of an old Lee Wulff article. Sorry but I tried a 1 and a 2 weight already. Never a "0." I felt like I had crossed over into weenie world and the next stop was an operating table in Denmark. Felt like I was play fishing. I know, I know. Adapt! I think Id rather head North and die in a snowbank. Daytripper has a point about the number of rods the average fisher has, and all that. Except for the SPL, mine are well worn vets. And you are right, I would not consider paying big bucks for a lite rod to target tiny fish. I catch enough of those already, thank you. But overall parsimony probably does play a role. If I need a new rod its an 8 or 10 weight for Salmon. Several folks made mention of the small trout opportunities on the Olympic Penn.. Yes indeed there are many small fish and small rivers. And I fish plenty of both. But thats not what I target on the Penninsula. Its taken me years to learn how to fish these rivers and I really know only a handful. There are decent size Cuts and bows in some of these small rivers much of the year.  And there are times when there are very large fish in these very small rivers.  You do not want to hook a Chum, Steelhead or King with one of these rods.  I would even go so far as to warn against fishing a 3 weight or less if there are any Pinks around. I can’t see a 1 or 2 weight in brushy water surviving that first run. One last item: By "runty brookies" I was not putting down the whole of the Squaretail Nation. Or the value of any fish less than 10 inches. Im referring to high lakes that are full of 2-5 inch malnorished fish. OK? (So now the Email death threats should stop?) Happy Easter Dave Snedeker

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up. Im usually in the brush, and I almost never see others fishing who are not in my party. I do not hike into the high lakes anymore because most just have runty brookies by the thousands and its not worth it. To Charlie Machete? Hell no, see thats another point in favor of the Sage. You don’t have to carry a machete or a wading staff either. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,     – Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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David, Most of the fishing that I have been doing for the last several years involves "bushwhacking" to get to small streams in VA, PA and NY. I avoid fishing anywhere near other fisherman – not a misanthrope, mind you, I just don’t want anyone to see me when I blow an easy cast, or trip over a rock. These streams are small and tight enough that 7′ to 7 1/2′ is about all I can get away with. Even then, I’m on my knees a lot. I find it easy to subdue the brookies and browns that I regularly find with these small rods. They aren’t sick fish, just not big. A 9" brookie from some of these streams is a nice fish. Still, the occasional 14" brown is no problem when he/she comes along. And these fish are landed and released quickly and in apparently good condition. Still, I would not go lighter than this. BTW, my wife and I had several superb days on the Firehole in October, casting Baetis imitations to rising trout in the wind with Winston 8 1/2" 3 wts. Lots of fish hooked, quickly landed and released in good condition. Of course, other’s mileage may vary… -Doc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker

I agree that a 1 or 2 is awfully light but I use a 9′ 3 wgt with a Cortland Clear Creek line quite often especially during low water conditions.  It presents small dries and nymphs with alot of delicacy. A 9′ rod, even a 3 wgt, can put alot of pressure on a fish, far more pressure than a 5X or lighter tippet can hold. Willi

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up.

There appear to be two mindsets on fishing in tight quarters.  One says go with a longer rod for "dibbling" and roll casts, the other says to go with a shorter rod to avoid getting caught up on trees, plants, etc. I’ll agree with the roll casts being easier with the longer rod, but I don’t find an extra foot or so to be of much help with "dibbling". I prefer the shorter rods (but not too short) since generally they are small enough to sort of flip the fly out there without getting hung up on stuff.  I’ve got a 7′9" 2wt that’s perfect for those tight places on small streams. It all comes down to personal preference. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks.

I’ve lived in Colorado, the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, and Massachusetts. All three regions provide plenty of streams where a small rod is perfectly suited and can be more fun than a 9′/5W. I don’t see many people using small, light rods either, even on streams that can be jumped. But I chalk that up to most people not having invested in a broad arsenal. When a flyfisher collects a set of rods, which rod purchased is the small, light one? Second? Third? Fourth? And if the average flyfisher only has one or two fly rods, is one of them a small lightweight? I’ve fished with a lot of people, young and old, over the years, and I’d guess only one in five owns a short three weight or lighter rod. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die.

Your presumption is that you can’t fight a decent size fish with a small, light rod, but I don’t agree. I’ve caught a few fish (eg: a 22" rainbow) on my little Winston 2wt that would put a heck of a bend in a six weight, but the fish were all caught in cold water, and were landed quick enough to avoid over stress (remember that God gave *us* the big brains to figure out how to deal with stuff like this ;^) How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Yikes! You left out plagues and locusts! ;^) But it just ain’t so. Cripes, I’ve damn near gotten looking for short cuts to water, but I don’t endanger my rods when thrashing through the brush. I at least keep my rod in its sock if I’m hiking any distance. Otherwise, it’s a lot easy to pick your way along the stream with a short rod than a nine footer! Besides that…The tip on one of my 10′ long saltwater rods is only 1/64" larger in diameter than the tip of my little Winston, and it’d probably snap even easier. I wouldn’t want to try poking through the bush with that! /daytripper

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

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what are your thoughts on this rod?

  Love it.  Buy it.  Treat it like you wished your wife treated you.

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I sold mine and went to the 8 foot 4 weight because the wind always blows like crazy when I go.

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Andrew asked:what are your thoughts on this rod? As I always say you can’t have too many good 3-Weights. The only places I think it would be out of place would be in a float tube or a West Texas Wind. Big Dale

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line.

If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

Response:

I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die. How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

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How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Wow, lost me on the logic in that one.  I "bushwack" my way to small streams on a regular basis and then use lighter rods.  Haven’t encountered much that has worried me about the safety of my rods.  I’m far more worried about slipping on a rock and breaking a rod than trompsing through the woods and breaking a rod.  There’s one spot I regularly frequent which required climbing down a 75ft sheer bank, the rods stay in their tubes for that one, although I’m sure a fall there would break an 8wt as well as a 2wt. Oh well, later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical.

Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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Question:

Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

Don’t hold back Chris, what do you really think?  :-) It’s probably a troll, take it easy, laugh at all the ignorant statements, it’s Friday by joe, time to fish tomorrow.  I think I’ll fish with some of them thar computer designed flies…so I too can catch fish like a pro, I’m still chuckling.  :-) Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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(snipped) <<Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? What is this?  A rehearsal for Loony Tunes.   Dave LaCourse

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on…

…and by all means, help him with technique, if he is struggling. Shoot, I’ll give him a few flies, although I have no clue where to get those computer made ones. Probably have to check on Gerkhes website for those.                                    Tom Littleton

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You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

        by this post, you show yourself to be hopelessly dense.  tim walker has honored your positions at the expense of his cyberpopularity for years, you pig headed twit.  re-read his post, fool. wayno

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I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie.

Where I fish, it is almost impossible to bring in and unhook a little native brook trout before some dirty-faced, rag-wearing, famine-stricken, third-world youngster sinks a fork into its side.  It’s really starting to piss me off. First, I used pepper spray.  Now, I’m carrying the Combat Commander. Bob Scott

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(snip) I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population.

        no, buster, what you really want is to be "liberal", "different", "confrontational"; and, more than anything else, possesed of a feeling of superiority over the unwashed masses of fishermen. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

        wayno

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  

[snip] This post must be a troll. It’s hard to believe that anyone could be so wrong about so many things.

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I think the operative word here is AMATEUR!  I promise you I could write you a page of anti-fishing nonsense which would make you want to sell your house and send me all your money to save the planet.  A single web site,  a single appeal, a single slant on any environmental problem is sure to incite some individuals to post messages, send donations, and even in some cases take anti-social behavior (tree spiking, etc.) as a mission.  Perhaps this discussion belongs better with Greenpeace, and PETA where a wider audience of people looking for a life will eagerly join in to support.  If you’re looking to talk multi-use management, I am not an AMATEUR.  Send me your donations today Jim, I will save your personal piece of this planet. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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<<[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. Yeah, I too wondered about that.  "Food off a hungry child’s plate?" Dave LaCourse

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Jim Andrews writes <massively uniformed drivel snipped James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

You got that part right, Jim. Amateur to the point of near ignorance, from your writing here. Do you have the slightest clue about fly fishing or conservations efforts of fishermen? I expect this reply to join a veritable flame barrage(especially at this, the cabin-fever time of year).                                 Tom Littleton

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks!

Bingo. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.

Well….once people realize that what you say is true then flyfishing shall return to the subsistence intentions of its roots and our heritage.  This yuppie trend is just noise Jim. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

Yup. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

Damned good questions. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

You have many friends here. Thank you for your time,

And for yours. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

– TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick. If you’re trolling, I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless* Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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you know, just this am as i was reading gg’s post and enjoying my coffee, i thought what we need is a good ole c&k vs c&r debate to liven things up around here. looks like this just may fit the bill. ahhhh, the good ole days. have at it boys. –Wataugan "hopefully, my one and only reply to this thread" Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/ I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate? Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

–          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

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[snip timster type nanner] not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

I promise that, when I see a hungry child working a pool, I’ll move on to the next one. Unless, of course, it is catch and release in which case I’ll have to report him if he’s eating<g. You and timbo have a real nice day. — Charlie…

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[deleted] desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

[deleted] You mis-spelled elevate. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics. http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

Did you even read the webpage that you posted? or is this just a troll?  The page rightfully places the blame of overfishing on the supertrawlers and sights trouble spots mostly out in the open ocean. The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

   #              ##   ###               #    #                 #          #####       #    #                 #   ###               #    #              ## Okay, that solves the mystery, you are trolling…… "…computer-designed flies…possible…to catch fish like the pros…" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Best laugh I’ve had all day, thanks,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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You have many friends here.

Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

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Are you naked right now ? OBROFF:  Nude flyfishing is extremely hazardous, please practice it with utmost caution. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.  All you have to do is check out websites like the one linked below and you can see the devastating effect flyfishing is having on overall fish population statistics.  This is true for fish than aren’t even being caught for legitimate reasons (i.e., food), like the sharks! http://www.livingplanet.org/seachange/fisheries/

this website says nothing of flyfishing or even sportfishing for that matter.  maybe you should read it.  it’s about the worldwide fishing fleets (commercial you idiot) are devestating fish populations worldwide especially species such as tuna.  i’d think if you were going to post URL’s they ought to support your wacko beliefs.  please show where flyfishing has caused "the devestating effect… on overall fish population statistics."  c’mon, i dare you, you PETA twit.  you are a liar, plain and simple. I realize that flyfishing is tremendously popular, and in fact its popularity is growing in leaps and bounds.  The advent of new and exciting technologies, like computer-designed flies and hooks, have made it possible for the novice to catch fish like the pros of old.

have you tried to flyfish?  and how do computer generated hooks make newcomers fish as well as seasoned flyfishing veterans?  you again don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Why must this be the case?  Why must we sacrifice the pleasant and entirely natural life-cycle of an innocent fish for our own pleasure, not to mention the fact that we take food off a hungry child’s plate?

how does flyfishing take food off a hungry child’s plate?  maybe somebodies casting flies in third world countries snagging food off poor childen’s plates.  get over it.  if we eat a fish we catch, we are in fact leaving more food for your poor starving children campaign.  btw, you are probably against medical research using animals, so how dare you try to use children as a weapon against us.  your policies result in many dead children dying because researchers cannot cure diseases.  fuck you. Please, think about what I am saying.  This is a terribly important issue.  I am happy to discuss this admittedly emotional topic with anyone here, either on these newsgroups or through email.  Perhaps we can all learn something.

maybe you can get a friggin’ brain, you twit.  stop basing natural resource management on emotion, and use facts.  sportfishermen and hunters provide much more money to save and restore animals, fish, and ecosystems than you or your animal rights wacko buddies. Thank you for your time, James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

amateur is right.  you’re an idiot plain and simple.  you are misinformed on fishery issues.  try doing some reading, and not just PETAphile propoganda. good day you twit, chris

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I looked at your map on that site, and it would seem to me that the areas that are shaded look lie areas of commercial fishing? I understand your worries, for I have them too. Keep hope in that the yuppie fad with fly fishing will die down and the true naturalists will prevail. I have many generations in my family that were avid field sportsmen, including hunters, but while I don’t condone the killing of animals for sport you must realize that people must be fed, and systems such as aqua culture will not provide enough product to feed the masses, what we need is control of the population and not the animals. Maybe we should start thinking about limiting people’s rights to breed? Andrew

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You have many friends here. Ha, ha.  LOL!  OK, I can tell that T-Bone isn’t interested in my discussion.  That’s fine, if I can change one mind, or even get someone to think about the problem, my post will not be in vain. James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist

except timbo’s allready in your camp, until he realizes that you wackos actually want to ban all fishing, all hunting, and all use of animals in any regard… regardless of whether a fishing releases or keeps his catch or does a little bit of both (that selective harvest thing). james allen andrews (professional idiot, amateur naturalist) wants all fishing to be banned… to hell with all that sportfishermen and the groups they join (TU, FFF, WA Trout, CA Trout, etc.) do to protect and restore fish populations worldwide. he is an enemy to restoring fish populations in the united states and the rest of the world.  he thinks that if we don’t kill a few fish everything will be allright. hey james, the real problems facing our fisheries are habitat destruction and commercial overharvest.  switch to facing those issues and your professional idiot title may disappear, and you might just make some sense. so long wacko, go eat some tofu, chris

Response:

If you want to discuss this with an OPEN mind in a gentlemanly open and exchange of ideas then email me for this group thread will probably desintigrate into another C&R tirade real quick.

Well, OK, but it seems civil so far.  Has this been a problem around here before?  And if you don’t mind, what’s C&R? If you’re trolling,

An ironic use of terms in this newsgroup!  No, I’m not trolling. I humbly interject that you are completely ignoring the relevant facts of evolution, the food chain, giving to much creedence to computer designs in fishing, and loosing sight of what some peoples idea of nature is all about.

I understand some people’s idea of nature is different than mine. I’ve stated mine (at least I hope I have), and am willing to listen to anyone who disputes the effects of flyfishing on the world’s fish population. Wayne *biologist turned accountant but very concerned about nature, regardless*

James Allen Andrews Amateur Naturalist (and still an engineer!)

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Jim, I looked at the site you indicated. Where does it say anything about flyfishing? Not much thought in your weenieassed post.  Just because you mean well doesn’t mean you know anything. Show me any study, published anywhere, in any language, by anyone, that says flyfishing is responsible for the imminent extinction of any fish species and I will read it and discuss it with you. Until you can come up with even one lameassed bit of evidence, you are masterbating in public. Im sorry but as you mature you will run into many mean people like me who have limited patience with fools. Unless you are willing to put some learning effort into your interests, you may want to look for a more suitable avocation than "naturtalist" as an outlet for your need to share your ideas with others. Perhaps some areas where opinions are perfered over facts. A few suggestions are religion, politics, corrections, educational policy, folk dancing, Now the other part. If you post more of this crap in a fishing site I care about I will kill every third fish I catch in your name. I catch many fish in a year. You personally will be responsible for their deaths because you pestered me. Get it? Dave Snedeker I am terribly concerned about the contributing effects of fishing, and in particular the effects of sport flyfishing on the imminent extinction of many of our world’s greatest natural treasures.

SNIPPED REST OF DRIVEL

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Question:

I would appreciate any recommendations from people on good places to stay in Montana for a week in August. Wishes are: reasonably close to good fly fishing, right on or near some water would be excellent; a cabin with some personality and a kitchen in a somewhat private, open setting (not a town); fairly quiet with a small number of other guests; prefer moderate price, premium price for perfect spot OK. I’m open to any location in Montana, but am somewhat familiar to Twin Bridges area and liked it a lot. Also liked fishing in Yellowstone Park rivers so near that might be good. Have not fished Big Hole, hear I should. Any suggestions very much appreciated. Thank you. AWilson

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I would appreciate any recommendations from people on good places to stay in Montana for a week in August.

August is generally (but of course not ALWAYS) the worst month of the year. It’s hot, and the water levels are low, and the fish  (specially browns) are in a nocturnal phase then. August should be particularly skunky this year, as we have an anemic, El Nino snow pack–Utah and Colorado got all our snow.     At that time of year, the best fishing is at high altitude: beaver ponds, small brook trout creeks and mountain lakes. —  * Center for Computational Biology  * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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Question:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I am finishing up a Masters degree in Film from American University and have been posed with the challenge of writing a ten-minute script illuminating the joys and tribulations of fly fishing–specifically, fly fishing for trout. Why fly fishing? Any response, e-mail or posted, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Chris Strobel Dear Chris; Because it is the best/only way to catch a trout after the middle of May when the critters start to focus-in on bugs. Thank-you.  That is all. Jason Beary

Chris,  for me its the ability not to have to leave the sport in the off season.  Tying flys, reading, studying the entomology and biology is fascinating, and it fills up snowy evenings – a glass of Merlot, a pattern book and a pile for fur and feathers – that I turn into a "bug" that will fool a fish.  Not such a lofty pursuit, but an absorbing one. jg Huntington NY

Response:

Part of the lure(?? a pun)of flyfishing for me is that you are taking materials such as fur,feathers,yarn etc.which if cast upon the waters by themselves would produce nothing. If you take the same materials ,combine them in such a way,to create a fly,(which hopefully will resemble a natural)and present it to a fish,and the fish takes it..Well thats satisfying. I guess that it is that you are in complete control of part of the game(buying the materials,what you buy,your skill etc.)but once you put it on the water ,its up,to the fish.And the fish taking your fly or not is the measure of success or failure.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I am finishing up a Masters degree in Film from American University and have been posed with the challenge of writing a ten-minute script illuminating the joys and tribulations of fly fishing–specifically, fly fishing for trout.  Does it have something to do with the peacefulness of the stream, or is there a particular challenge to fly fishing that the rest of us don’t know about and wouldn’t understand?   Having never been much of a fisherman (other than the bluegill from a small lake in my childhood) I don’t have experience with fly fishing and was wondering if anyone would like to tell me why they do what they do… Why fly fishing? Any response, e-mail or posted, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Chris Strobel

Chris, "Penthouse" or "Playboy" would never ask a virgin to write a story about sex. And your question, why fly fishing?, sounds just about as silly as that virgin asking people, "why do you enjoy sex". Ya just gotta try it to underestand it! Do some research on your own, fishing that is. Take a leason or two, go fishing and then write your script. Short of that, you’re just writing an expos

Question:

Anyone know of a mail-order source for 8 millimeter diameter pom-poms to use in making egg pattern flies?  (I believe 5 are smaller and 10 larger than the real thing – a king salmon egg.) Also – what are favorite colors for these things?   Thanks.

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I’ve bought white 8mm pom poms at a fabric store called Jo-Ann Fabrics. I’ve used RIT dyes to get colors such as chartreuse and Orgeon Cheese (be sure to use a vinegar bath after dying to make it colorfast).  These two colors have been the most effective for me on the Salmon River in NY.  I then insert the hook through the pom pom, making sure it enters perpendicular to the inner thread.  A small bit of thread wrap in front of and behind the pom pom holds it in place.  A hot glue gun will do the same, but it gets a bit messy.  Good luck.

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Anyone know of a mail-order source for 8 millimeter diameter pom-poms to use in making egg pattern flies?  (I believe 5 are smaller and 10 larger than the real thing – a king salmon egg.) Also – what are favorite colors for these things?  

Hi- Ben Franklin’s craft stores carry pom poms and will mail order. Get the white ones and dye them to your specs. Purple, lime, flame and peach will round out your selection. Don’t ask why steelhead and trout like these colors . . . just remember they do not percieve colors as humans do (they see UV and IR as well as the colors we see). 3mm is perfect trout and kokanee size roe. I’d guess 8mm is king salmon size but honestly don’t know and I doubt if the fish care.    Tight lines, Ralph —

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Just to let you know – those seemingly fancy eggs with protruding mylar tags are available in most of the craft stores way up here in Canada, but I have only seen them in 10mm. Being something of a beginner, I first purchased these lettle gems from a tackle shop, and could have bought an equivilant weight of gold for the same price. In the craft shop they are 5cents each and available in all sorts of colours – which means that if you are slow off the mark, purple will be the only colour remaining. Good Luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a mail-order source for 8 millimeter diameter pom-poms to use in making egg pattern flies?  (I believe 5 are smaller and 10 larger than the real thing – a king salmon egg.) Also – what are favorite colors for these things?   Orange and peach.  Those hand-tied from glow-bug yarn have a nicer, translucent look than those made from pom-poms. — -Wayne Trzyna I’d be <amazed if chinooks were selective enough to hesitate to take a 10mm pompom because it was 2 mm larger than the real thing.  Go with the 10’s if that’s what you can find.  Be sure you check the local craft and fabric stores.  If they have them, you’ll save a bundle.  At least you would here in Oregon, where you’re fishing egg flies strictly along the bottom, and catching rocks a lot.  What I haven’t seen, other than in fly shops, though, are the pompoms with the tiny bits of protruding mylar. If that’s what you really want, I’m afraid I have nothing to offer. Tight lines, Greg Metcalfe

– << Allan Hyggen   << <<          <<

Response:

Just to let you know – those seemingly fancy eggs with protruding mylar tags are available in most of the craft stores way up here in Canada, but

Note:  I conducted an off-the-cuff study one day, with some Alaskan Rainbows feeding behind spawning chum salmon.  The rainbows would approach the "fancy protruding mylar" egg patterns, scope ‘em out, then turn away. But they would readily take similar pom-poms without the protruding mylar. I think the protruding mylar catches more fishermen than fish. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Note:  I conducted an off-the-cuff study one day, with some Alaskan Rainbows feeding behind spawning chum salmon.  The rainbows would approach the "fancy protruding mylar" egg patterns, scope ‘em out, then turn away. But they would readily take similar pom-poms without the protruding mylar.

…and they would take eggs hand-tied from glow-bug yarn more readily than either type of pom-pom. — -Wayne Trzyna

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