Question:

Oops!  I am sure glad that I am not required to understand the physics of fly casting in order to do it because if I was I would be in serious trouble. I try to keep it simple.  I fish, therefore I am. JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bloody hell John, I hope you mean grains !  I would not like to try casting a fly-line weighing over a pound !  (Especially not from Airflo !! 500 grams would be 7716 grains !!!! 350 grains = 22.5  grams or 0.8 oz. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de I have had very good experiences fishing the their fast sinking line. The design is similar to the Teeny in that it has a running (intermediate) line attached to a shooting head.  The version I have is about 500 grms. My experience is that this weight business differs wildly between fly lines. The Cortland line I have which I think is a 350 feels like 650.

Response:

I have had very good experiences fishing the their fast sinking line.  The design is similar to the Teeny in that it has a running (intermediate) line attached to a shooting head.  The version I have is about 500 grms. My experience is that this weight business differs wildly between fly lines. The Cortland line I have which I think is a 350 feels like 650.

That’s interesting.  My Teeny 300 feels heavier than my Scientific Anglers Wet Cel 11 wt shooting head (nominally 330 grains – I haven’t weighed it because my scale is in storage in Michigan) on my 9 weight rod.  I’m not sure what it is.  IIRC Teeny’s prototypes were originally made by Sci Ang and might still be. (In fact, two years ago at a fly fishing show I asked a 3M rep all kinds of questions regarding splicing custom density compensated shooting heads and he sent me and assortment of 5 sinking fly lines that he had used for his research.  Three of them were 3M lines and two were Teenys).  Obviously the linear density of the Teeny line is greater since it’s 300 grains and 24 ft whereas the 11 wt Wet Cel is 330 grains over 30 feet.  The 11 wt is rated as a Type IV and not sure what the Teeny is.  The 11 wt is tapered and the Teeny is not. Airflo claims that their Depth Charge lines have the smallest diameter/grain weight ratio.  That might have something to do with your experiences. Mu, still searching for clues

Response:

Throw him in the river and he will come up with

a fish in his mouth.                                   Arabian proverb.<   When I was a kid, growing up in Youngstown OH, we used to say (about someone we considered lucky), "If he fell in the Mahoning River, he’d come out with a fish in his pocket."  The M. was dead as a doornail from steel mill pollution in those days.  

Response:

I have had very good experiences fishing the their fast sinking line.  The design is similar to the Teeny in that it has a running (intermediate) line attached to a shooting head.  The version I have is about 500 grms. My experience is that this weight business differs wildly between fly lines. The Cortland line I have which I think is a 350 feels like 650. My main concerns in these kinds of line are: 1. The most importand consideration is tangles.  I fish for striped bass off Cape Cod where the air temperature can vary from 95 degrees in summer to forty degrees in the fall.  I have found the Airflo to have the least tendency to tangle.  Since one of the main concerns in fishing fast sinking, shooting head lines is distance, this is a major concern.   I commonly have 70 feet of line to contend with when retrieving.  If the line tends to tangle you can find the day very frustrating and you can lose some nice fish if a tangle jams in your guides. 2. Finding the correct weight.  As noted above, I do not know how much the issue is actual weight and how much it is the way that weight is distributed but there is quite a range in the way these shooting head type lines feel to cast. I noticed on their web site that they are now guarranteeing their lines not to crack for five years. JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ref other postings: Early airflo lines were terrible, not even much use as parcel string, came undone too easily. The modern ones are much better, quite usable in fact. Not as good as the best Cortland or Sci Anglers of course, but available here (uk) at competetive package prices. You gents in the US would balk at the prices we pay! Chris — Throw him in the river and he will come up with a fish in his mouth.                                                                 Arabian proverb. Where’s this river then? I hope its the Bow, Thompson or Vedder, which I aim to fish this summer.

Response:

Bloody hell John, I hope you mean grains !  I would not like to try casting a fly-line weighing over a pound !  (Especially not from Airflo !! 500 grams would be 7716 grains !!!! 350 grains = 22.5  grams or 0.8 oz. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had very good experiences fishing the their fast sinking line.  The design is similar to the Teeny in that it has a running (intermediate) line attached to a shooting head.  The version I have is about 500 grms. My experience is that this weight business differs wildly between fly lines. The Cortland line I have which I think is a 350 feels like 650.

Response:

Hi Ref other postings: Early airflo lines were terrible, not even much use as parcel string, came undone too easily. The modern ones are much better, quite usable in fact. Not as good as the best Cortland or Sci Anglers of course, but available here (uk) at competetive package prices. You gents in the US would balk at the prices we pay! Chris — Throw him in the river and he will come up with a fish in his mouth.                                                                 Arabian proverb. Where’s this river then? I hope its the Bow, Thompson or Vedder, which I aim to fish this summer.

Response:

Hi Ref other postings: Early airflo lines were terrible, not even much use as parcel string, came undone too easily. The modern ones are much better, quite usable in fact. Not as good as the best Cortland or Sci Anglers of course, but available here (uk) at competetive package prices. You gents in the US would balk at the prices we pay! Chris — Throw him in the river and he will come up with a fish in his mouth. Arabian proverb. Where’s this river then? I hope its the Bow, Thompson or Vedder, which I aim to fish this summer.

I bought an Airflo line last year at a sporting goods store that was getting out of the fishing business.  This particular shop specializes in hunting/shooting and apparently wasn’t very successful selling to anglers.  The line had been reduced in price three times to a final selling price of only $20.  For that price, I figured I couldn’t go wrong–so I bought it.  It’s a DT5F in a light brown color and so far it seems to work as advertised…  I’m probably not a good enough caster to be critiquing fly lines, but I don’t have any complaints about the Airflo line I’ve got. Tom G always looking for a good deal

Response:

Question:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.

I enthusiastically agree.  Even though most of the material in this book is recycled from "An Outside Chance, 2nd Ed." which was recycled from the first edition, which was a compilation of essays published in "Sports Illustrated" (in their glory days in the 70’s) and elsewhere, this book is a must-read.  McGuane has a gift for writing like nobody else I know. I wish I had been born 15 years earlier, and had been in Key West in the early 70’s, when it was haunted by McGuane, Russell Chatham, Jim Harrison, and Jimmy Buffett.  Don’t even want to go there now, I fear it would be a horrible disappointment. Kevin

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

This is the finest fishing-related book I’ve read in many years. Maybe ever. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

joe, that book is one of my favorites… it’s been awhile, mebbe i’m due for a re-read. walt

Response:

Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post

    do us all a favor.  send a copy to forty. wayno

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

It just keeps getting better as your read through it. There’s a piece on permit fishing toward the end that is possibly the best thing that I have read on fly fishing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

Response:

Question:

Try Paint Creek in Oakland County.  The stream has both natural reproduction & plantings of brown trout.  The stream is also maintained by the Clinton Valley chapter of Trout Unlimited.  The browns can push 20".  The rainbows are actually steelhead smolts and should be quickly released as they are fully native, and the steelhead fishing in the Clinton River system depends on them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

No trout streams according to the L&N book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the quick responses; however, are there any locations on the middle to southest corner of the state? Regards, M. I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

Thanks for all the quick responses; however, are there any locations on the middle to southest corner of the state? Regards, M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

A good little book that I have is called "Michigan Trout Streams" by Linsenman & Nevala. Try Augusta Creek just north of Augusta, northeast of Kalamazoo (I’ve had some decent luck there) or farther southwest, Dowigiac Creek & River are listed  near Sumnerville, but I’ve never fished it myself. Good Luck.

If memory serves, Linsenman & Nevala report that there are landlocked salmon in one of the lakes in SW Michigan; I believe it may be Gull Lake.

Response:

I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan.

There’s salmon fishing between Croton and Newaygo on the Muskegon River and a lot more info at  http://www.steelheadsite.com — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

A good little book that I have is called "Michigan Trout Streams" by Linsenman & Nevala. Try Augusta Creek just north of Augusta, northeast of Kalamazoo (I’ve had some decent luck there) or farther southwest, Dowigiac Creek & River are listed  near Sumnerville, but I’ve never fished it myself. Good Luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. There’s salmon fishing between Croton and Newaygo on the Muskegon River and a lot more info at  http://www.steelheadsite.com — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Does Dwight Lyons have a web site? Big Dale

Brain fart on my part, sorry I did not post it originally. http://www.teleport.com/~lyons/ — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Now that I’ve gotten a couple of years fishing under my belt, I’ve determined that I like fishing a slower action rod.   Short of purchasing a bamboo rod, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight.

Hey maybe you can find a fiberglass rod you like, then you can really save some bucks.  I think Winston makes some, but that’s not exactly what I had in mind by saving a few bucks Regards, Jeff

Response:

Short of purchasing a bamboo rod, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight.

Don’t try a Scott G-series rod unless you are willing to spend a few bucks. Big Dale

Response:

ROFFians: Now that I’ve gotten a couple of years fishing under my belt, I’ve determined that I like fishing a slower action rod. Short of purchasing a bamboo rod, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight. Thanks much!

If money is no object and you want graphite there are only three choices inspite of all the suggestions you have recieved… They would be the: Winston Tom Morgan Favorite 8′ Four weight or any other Winston IM6 Series Trout rod. (note the 5 pc models are not moderate) Thomas and Thomas Paradigm Series Scott Powerply Series Money an object look at the Orvis Silver Label Mid Flex or if you want to try Glass Winston, Hardy, and Scott make nice ones but I recommend some glass rods sold by a Cane Rod maker in Oregon named Dwight Lyons. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

I agree with Ken and Peter on the Orvis Superfine/Silver Label full flex models.  I have a Silver Label 792 (2wt, 7′9") and absolutely love it.  Like you, I prefer more moderate actions.  Some of the full flex versions of the Silver Labels are the exact same blank as the more expensive Superfines. Winston, T&T, Scott, Powell etc. are all outstanding though they will severely lighten the wallet. Another one worth checking into is the Sage DS2 series…..maybe a bit faster than the Orvis full flex models but still quite moderate. Tight Lines! Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Janik) … I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight. Orvis Superfine (save some bucks and get the Silver Label version).     – Ken I second this – Orvis Far n’ Fine 7′ 9" in the silver label version – not expensive, unconditional warranty and one of the best all-round trout rods ever made for small to mid sized streams.  Throws a DT-4 quite well too.  We’ve had five of this series in the family and only one was less than satisfactory (3 wt. Tippet.)  If you’re interested in a 4 wt., then try the 7/11. If you’re planning on spending a bit more and fishing small streams then the Hardy Perfection E Glass 4 wt. 7′ 6" should be on your list. Walt at ezflyfish.com can give you the details.  I have the 6′ 6" 3 wt. version – fabulous little rod for tight, little streams.  I hear that its bigger brother is just as nice. Scott, Winston, and East Branch all have very good rods with medium – slow action as well. Peter

Response:

How slow is slow?  I have a Sage DS that I love.  It is listed as a "medium" action, I think, by Sage.  It is slower that any other Sage other than the discontinued LL series.  The price for a 4 piece is about $250.00.  A great rod to try. Chris Brown

Response:

some glass rods sold by a Cane Rod maker in Oregon named Dwight Lyons.

Does Dwight Lyons have a web site? Big Dale

Response:

Hi All, This is a common thing in trout fly fishing. Normally, the more you fish, the better you cast. Now you can cast slower rods, so you move more in that direction. Most will cast the lightest, softest rod that will allow them to get the fly to the fish. This will allow you to land larger fish on lighter tippets.  This is not true for everyone, but it is a standard event around our shop in Sacramento, California, USA. Some softer rods: Loomis GL2, Sage SPL, Sage SP, Winston IM6, Scott G series……. Many companies will have a faster series and a slower series like ‘Thomas & Thomas’. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROFFians: Now that I’ve gotten a couple of years fishing under my belt, I’ve determined that I like fishing a slower action rod. Short of purchasing a bamboo rod, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight. Thanks much!

Response:

ROFFians: Now that I’ve gotten a couple of years fishing under my belt, I’ve determined that I like fishing a slower action rod.   Short of purchasing a bamboo rod, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight. Thanks much!

Response:

… I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight.

Winston. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight.

Scott G Series are moderate action and their Fibertouch are slow. — Charlie…

Response:

… I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight.

Orvis Superfine (save some bucks and get the Silver Label version).      - Ken — "If any of you cry at my funeral, I’ll never speak to you again!"                                      - Stan Laurel

Response:

… I would appreciate hearing any suggestions on manufacturers who make rods that that have a slower action.  It would most likely be a 4 or 5 weight. Orvis Superfine (save some bucks and get the Silver Label version).     – Ken

I second this – Orvis Far n’ Fine 7′ 9" in the silver label version – not expensive, unconditional warranty and one of the best all-round trout rods ever made for small to mid sized streams.  Throws a DT-4 quite well too.  We’ve had five of this series in the family and only one was less than satisfactory (3 wt. Tippet.)  If you’re interested in a 4 wt., then try the 7/11. If you’re planning on spending a bit more and fishing small streams then the Hardy Perfection E Glass 4 wt. 7′ 6" should be on your list. Walt at ezflyfish.com can give you the details.  I have the 6′ 6" 3 wt. version – fabulous little rod for tight, little streams.  I hear that its bigger brother is just as nice. Scott, Winston, and East Branch all have very good rods with medium – slow action as well. Peter

Response:

Question:

anyone have any experience with swift canoes. am looking at the temegami wondering how initial stability is needed for two large people to fish off of

Response:

I’m quite familiar with Swift Canoes (Mattawa, Kip, Winisk, all the solos, Mad, and Dumo).  The Temagami is a new boat (2000), that is similair to a Winisk in most dimensions, however is wider, deeper and has less bow rocker and more stern rocker.  That means that it will carry a bit more, be a bit slower and will have less stern drag.  The Winisk is a very nice boat.  It may not be my favorite tripping boat, but it is quick when properly trimmed and it has lots of flare for dryness, and soft chines to eliminate catching on waves.  Generally speaking the Winisk is a very nice canoe. As for balance the Winisk is easy to balance, however it exhibits the same old Swift wiggle you get in most of the Winters designed boats. It often puts first time paddler off.  What I’m speaking about is the wiggle in the initial stability that the boat develops with each stroke while paddling.  It’s hard to describe, but it is more of a feeling than anything else.  Once you paddle a mile or so you won’t feel it, but it is noticeable after paddling other boats that don’t wiggle.  The Winisk and all Swifts have impeccable secondary stability, a practiced paddler can put the one rail well below the water surface and not loose stability in a swift boat.  This is useful when executing sharp apex turns.  Swifts track well and compare well against similair canoes in all matters of performance. I recommend you take one for a paddle, try a Winisk too.  For that matter try a Bell Northwind, or a MRC Horizon, or several 17-18′ We-No- Nahs too (Sundower, Jensen, Minnesota II, Odyssey, and Champlain. Western Canoeing als makes a few comparable boats. PK Before you buy.

Response:

I’ll second everything that PK said.  I own the Winter-designed, 18-foot Swift Cirrus, 54 pounds in an expedition kevlar layup. The initial stability is poor.  The boat freely rocks through about 5 degrees with each stroke and scares beginners but it can be heeled until the gunwales are wet and just gets tighter and tighter as the angle increases.  I fly fish standing up in it. The quality of construction is superb with beautiful contrasting wood work for thwarts, seats and yoke.  Outfitting is thoughtful, with a sliding bow seat, molded-in flotation chambers with valves that can open to allow compensation for temperature expansion of the air inside and a nicely contoured carrying yoke. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Michael A. Barbalic writes: anyone have any experience with swift canoes. am

looking at the temegami wondering how initial stability is needed for two large people to fish off of

There are several Swift Canoe models listed among the reader’s gear reiviews at http://www.paddling.net/ , but not the model you mention in your post. You may find them useful anyway. Good luck! " If clean air and water and a healthy environment have not harmed you, please reciprocate."

Response:

Good point on the yoke, Tommy,  But I gotta tell you opt for the optional Shadow Yoke.  It’s worth it’s weight in Ash.  Your shoulders will thank you.  You will be thankful for years that you didn’t cheese on that one!! PK Before you buy.

Response:

PK, I think fitting a yoke is like fitting shoes.  When I bought my Cirrus at Collinsville Canoe and Kayak in Connecticut, they had three different contoured and one padded yoke models (not all Swift) in the store.  I carried a boat with each of them and then selected the Swift "Teal".  I liked it so well that I bought two more "Teals" to retrofit into other canoes. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Michael: I’m not familiar with the Temagami but I have owned 2 Swift Kipawa’s.  My current boat is one of the two. I think that they are fantastic boats.  Very well designed.  Great secondary stablility – as pointed out by other posters. Swift’s construction is impeccable IMHO and so is their customer service. I would suggest going out to one of their outdoor events if you can and paddling their boats.  Alternatively if you can make it to the Dwight store, Oxtounge lake is right in their backyard. One thing I would suggest is that if they don’t have the exact boat in stock that you are looking for (Trim, colour ect.), wait for it.  I’m sure that they will gladly set you up with a loaner if it takes a few weeks to build your dream boat. BTW:  I highly recommend their cherry trim.  It’s a wonderful wood.. quite pleasing to the eye . Good luck, -Aamer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyone have any experience with swift canoes. am looking at the temegami wondering how initial stability is needed for two large people to fish off of

Response:

Yep the Cherry is nice, but I can tell you for a fact that if you plan to run whitewater in your boat, buy the ash.  It’s much stronger for the same weight. I had a friend that outfit his Dumo with cherry thwarts and yoke.  He went through the yoke, and two thwarts of cherry with only a good buise.  Sure it was lucky for him that he didn’t break his legs, buttttttttt…..  Thwarts shouldn’t break that easily PK Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

Boys will be boys will Be boys will be boys will be Men, and men will die.                               …Jay Jenks, boyhood pal now beyond the pale —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I had a subscription to WarmWater Flyfishing and after the first year I decided not to renew.Why?I found that the magazine was starting to get into the pattern of typical "bassin’" magazines.You know;slow and deep for winter bass,deadly patterns for early spring bluegills etc.The first few issues had my attention with articles on catching gar or peacock bass.After that there was too much redundancy.Other flyfishing magazines include enough articles on warm water flyfishing to fill the void.I like flyfishing magazines better than spinfisherman magazines because most of the time they don’t have that gonzo bass-pro attitude.W.W.Flyfishing seemed to me to be developing an identity crisis.Were all us flyfishing bass chasers really bassboat plug chuckers who had a desperate need to tie flies that looked and worked just as good as a spinnerbait and a plastic worm?I don’t think so. Tight Lines,Shawn

Response:

Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys.

Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

Response:

Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

I guess I will have to raise the price to seperate the men from the boys. Ernie

Response:

In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.

Yep, gotta agree with this one.  Bought my Estwing straight claw nearly twenty years ago and have pounded more nails, recalcitrant boards, various impedimenta, and thumbs with it than I care to remember.  If all tools were made this well a whole lot of manufacturers would soon go out of business. Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

Response:

Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

Response:

Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing.

Nothing wrong with the people here, John. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater.

Mr. Smith firmly stated that he did know "the real deal" and he was even willing to bet his hammer on it. Thank you for setting the record straight. Now, back to the newsgroup.

Been here all along. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine.

Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

I sure agree with that. Big Dale

Response:

Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater. To those who liked and supported the magazine, my thanks. Now, back to the newsgroup. John Likakis

Response:

Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

Your right. Perhaps I shouldn’t have directed my dissapointment so strongly at the publisher.  It is just that I am Interested in people with vision.  People who understand that the only differance between dreams and reality, is the making the dream, a reality. Still, I believe the decision to end Warm Water was premature.  At this point in history, the average person thinks that flyfishing is for trout only.  Warm Water Flyfishing magazine challenged that assumption directly.  Great ideas take time to bring into reality sometimes. I enjoy watching fishing shows when I get a chance.  A few years ago, you didn’t see that many flyfishing episodes let alone flyfishing for warm water species.  Since the advent of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine, I have been able to enjoy several episodes including warm water species. Fly fishing for carp?  Why not to long ago I watched an entire episode of Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh fly fishing for carp! They were calling it the *fresh water bonefish*.  Wow!  I credit people like John Likakis and his magazine, with stimulating the interest. Another reason I feel thet the decision was premature, is because the flyfishing industry, itself, was just beginning to wake up to the possibilities ( this was the point I was driving home in a previous post).  Warm water flyfishing has different tackle needs.  A magazine that broadened the market can only strengthen the industry. It’s too bad they didn’t wake up sooner.                                     Mike Smith

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Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.

Well, with friends like you and your Winston, Mr. Likakis sure as hell doesn’t need any enemies. — Ken Fortenberry

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 In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.

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In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson

well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.       Jim Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?

For feathers more suitable for bass and pike flies you should check out the feathers from Ewing Featherbirds inc. of Waterville,Ia.The last catalog I have MWflytying.com as another source for materials for tying bass flys. I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine. Big Dale                                                                      

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I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

I’m with you, Ken… In the immortal words of Mr. Class-Act himself… DON’T FEED THE TROLL!! –Steve

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, … I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.  I have been lurking here for quite some time, but it was not until I found that he was reading on the usenet that I have ever felt compelled to post anything on the usenet before.  This was my first time.      Yes, I do resent Abenaki’s (or perhaps more accuratly Rodale Press’s) decision to end publication of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine.  I love my sport deeply, and I have many thanks for people, like Mr. Likakis, who have been spreading the news that flyfishing is an all around sport.    My Winston 5wt and I have enjoyed many great experiances together on these wonderful Green Mountain streams.  But thanks to Mr. Likakis and Warm Water Flyfishing, my Sage 7wt and I am getting very well aquianted with these Green Mountain lakes and rivers.  And guess what?  I can’t wait for my first opportunity to lock into a carp on my fly rod.    Perhaps my 7wt won’t be enough. Maybe I should look into an 8wt.  It might be a good idea because I can use it for Pike also.  It could be that a 6wt would be just the thing for the White river.    It’s my suspicion, Mr. Fortenberry, that the decision to end this fine magazines publication, had less to do with lack of interest on the part of the public, and more to do with piss poor sales support by management.  It’s just another case of city bound account executives inability to see the green through the skyscrapers.  And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.    In the meantime, I think I will look into a Bauer reel to go along with that 8wt.  Also these feathers that I use for tying trout flys aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?                                  Mike Smith

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, …

I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill. — Ken Fortenberry

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… Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given.

If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries.

While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, nor do I have any resemblence to any mom you ever met.                                  Mike Smith

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Many thanks for the kind thoughts. Perhaps some other visionary publishing company might like to hire me! (Doesn’t seem real likely.) John Likakis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

Response:

John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

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Question:

I received an email from someone in the St. Louis, MO area about dry fly fishing in Meremac Park on a section with the name Heart Attack Hill. Has anyone heard of this or would the person who emailed me please respond again?

Response:

The correct name is " Cardiac Hill" but I heard you can get a heart attack climbing the hill. I looked for it last Sun. but there was too many people in orange walking around with shotguns, so I went to the north end of Meramec Park and fished in the Trophy Trout Area. The fish were stacked up like pancakes on a plate. There is a map of Cardiac Hill on the Meramec Basin of Trout Unlimited Web Page http://www.troutunlimited.org/welcome.html Have Fun, Tuna man

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Question:

Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly…. I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger when the 10 pound steelhead he reach for… suddenly thrashed about.   Months later, infection etc… he still has scars…. I fish with only one fly now…. Alan E. Hoover

Yep, had that happen also Alan.  I was posing with a nice rainbow for a photo when the dropper with PT nymph flicked onto my index finger of my dominate hand.  When the shutter clacked the fish went flying and I got the hook deep. It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly…. I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger when the 10 pound steelhead he reach for… suddenly thrashed about.   Months later, infection etc… he still has scars…. I fish with only one fly now…. Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting k Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) I saw a flyfishing show over the weekend that featured atlantic salmon fishing in Iceland.  They have an interesting regulation there.  The stream must be "rested" from 11:00am until 4:00pm (that means no fishing of any kind) every day.  Of course, at that latitude daylight goes until 10:00pm so there is plenty of time.

That’s an intresting concept.  It might be worth trying on some of our streams in the summer.  Different hours though. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning. Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) Tight Lines, preferably attached to ‘fish’, Charley

Nah, actually it was a good morning – pretty long.  It was just a long slow process cautiously getting down to the barb.  I’m no surgeon and had to wing it.  My fishing partner was taking a nap.  When I got ready to attempt pulling it out, I left the camper so I wouldn’t wake him if I yelled.  I grabbed it with tweezers and it popped right out.  That was the only one I forgot to pinch the barb on – talk about fate and retribution. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Several people have entered into a purposeful discussion of the best way to use two flies……   related comment, but not on topic exactly….

Fishing a team of 2 or 3 flies is common in Ireland and Scotland especially where Seatrout and Salmon are expected on the same water. I invariably fish a double or triple hooked Salmon pattern on the tail with two droppers for Seatrout. If it is blowing a full gale and I start to tangle I might cut one dropper off. I have one friend who regularly fishes a team of 4 flies but he is so expert that he has the nickname of "Tightlines" I drove a very good friend of mine to the hospital with the second hook  ( the one not in the fish) deeeeeeeppppply embedded in his finger.    This hook was driven into his finger It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.

This hooking yourself business has cropped up before but I’ll say it again anyway. You do not have to go to the surgery or take a knife to yourself. Put your thumb very firmly on the eye end of the hook. Tie a bit of stout lanyard around the bend of the hook and give a firm pull away from the direction of the hook’s entry. You have to be bold. It works. There’s a bit of blood and it hurts, but you will be fishing again in 5 minutes. Mind you I’ve never tried it with a hook in the eye or eyelid. Has anyone ? — Ian McCowen – Polwarth Manse, Greenlaw, Berwickshire TD10 6YR SCOTLAND (fine old books on Shooting, Fishing, Natural History bought & sold)

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It took me a couple of hours to cut that thing out with the fileting knife during lunch break.  It sure was hard casting with that thing in there the remainder of the morning.

Damn, Burton.  Fishing must have been slow if you took a couple of hours for lunch break!  :^) Tight Lines, preferably attached to ‘fish’, Charley

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Here in Taupo we regularly use two nymphs on the bigger rivers. The first nymph is very heavy, we are not allowed to add lead to the line, and the second nymph, lighter. The second nymph is invariably tied off to the bend of the first hook, about 12 to 18 inches behind. If casting where it is possible, the best technique is to allow the nymphs to hit the water on the back cast, this ‘water haul’ helps to straighten out the line and fully load the rod. As several others have noted, try and cast an open loop, and also try and change the ‘plane’ at which the rod moves from the forward to back cast. Even so it is all pretty ugly to purist casters, but it gets the job done. We also tend to use shooting heads or weight forward tapers that have a short forward section. Despite all the above this type of casting is called here, chuck and duck, definitely a hard hat area. — Tony Bishop Fish with Bish Taupo New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek.

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Burton,         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen. Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…!

        Etched forever in my memory is such an experience with a large         rainbow on the Madison River.  I was fishing a salmon fly with         an X-Caddis on a dropper.  The fish took the caddis (as usual),         and just when things were approaching the point where I was         thinking about a net, the fish made a pass by the boat and the         salmon fly got caught on the anchor line.  The salmon fly came         to an abrupt halt.  The fish, caddis fly and dropper didn’t.         I just stared at the errant salmon fly for some time, trying         to fully absorb the reality of the situation.  The image is         still vivid.         In fishing, as with everything else, there is no such thing as         a free lunch.  Fishing two flies may well double, or at least         increase the probability of hooking a fish, but there is a         price to be paid.  That being said, I still do it on a regular         basis.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek. : Arek: :    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may : need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a : bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to : make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the : forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the : same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. : Jim There is some debate whether to put the heavy fly at the end or the lighter fly.  My experience is that if you cast a tighter loop, put the small fly on the end.  If you can cast a wider loop, put the heavy fly at the end. Pete

Use a lob cast or a circle cast. Very few tangles using two flies with these casts. –tony

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time. –I tie a Bimini twist, snip the loop at lengths desire for top and

dropper.  I works really well. dj

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2 nymphs…deadly, but beware. Your chances of foul hooking the fish as he rejects the first fly is hugely increased.  Your chances of mortally wounding the fish as the trailer wraps in its gills is also greatly increased.   Not that you should worry…just truth.  One whitefish this weekend had a nice 6cm gash in its belly from being foul hooked on my dropper #20 coachman, guts visible.  kilt it. smoked it. et it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I : cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle : up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the : leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap : around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one : too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the : base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and : I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot : I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any : advice, Arek. : Arek: :    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may : need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a : bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to : make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the : forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the : same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. : Jim There is some debate whether to put the heavy fly at the end or the lighter fly.  My experience is that if you cast a tighter loop, put the small fly on the end.  If you can cast a wider loop, put the heavy fly at the end. Pete

Response:

I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Response:

I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any

I fish this way most of the time.  The "dropper" leader is usually lighter than my main leader because the fly is always smaller.  I use no special knot, but have seen a blood knot reccomended, as well as the Surgeon’s knot. The length of the dropper leader should be around 4 inches (18 inches up the leader from the "point fly"), much longer than this and it twist around the main leader, too short and it takes action out of the dropper fly.  I think the key is not to have a weighted fly on the dropper.  Just a small nymph, wet or emerger. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Arek, You can you use what ever size tippet you prefer and secure it to the gape of the first hook with a regular old improved clinch Knot.  Or you can place a loop somwhere in your leader and attach the two leaders loop to leader loop…no knot. They will tangle once in awhile…It wouldn’t be fly fishing if you didn’t get a tangle or two now and then.  One the leader material starts to become twisted…replace it right away….will prevent snarls. Good luck.  Email me with any questions.Works for me…I am sure there are probably other methods…we do not usually false cast these set-ups much… Regards, James Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Hi Arek I’ve always used and "in-line dropper system." Start by tying on your first fly, then tie an 18" or so piece of tippet to the bend of the first hook. Tie your second fly on the second piece of tippet. I use a Unit Knot or Clinch Knot (improved). I have fished up to three flies in this manner but two are easier to cast. Also you can fish a dry fly as your first fly with a nymph under it using the dry as your strike indicator. Or for old folks like me whose eyes are not as good as they used to be use a larger dry fly with a real small dry fly as the dropper. The bigger dry will give you a fairly good idea where the small fly is located. Good Tying & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

Response:

I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Hello Arek, I have experienced the same problems as you describe. The best (to date) solution for me is to tie the first nymph to the end of the tippet and then attach a second piece of tippet to the bend of the first nymph with an improved cinch knot. I use 18 to 24 inches of tippet and tie on the second nymph. Using heavy nymphs requires a special technique – the chuck and duck. You might want to experiment on the placement of the heavier nymph– first or second fly. I also use the technique with the first fly being a dry fly and the second either a small nymph, soft hackle, or in some cases, another too small-to-see dry fly. The first fly becomes a fishing strike indicator. Good luck and let us know how your experimenting works out. Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com

Response:

Arek writes, in part: <<I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time…… In Maine, it is illegal to use split shot with a fly.  So, I first tie on a bead head (or other weighted nymph) and tie my "intended lure" onto the bead head’s hook bend with about two feet of tippet of the *same* size.  I have no problems with the flies getting tangled — they are for all intents and purposes a single strand.  With this method, I can experiment with the size of the bead head to get deeper or shallower depending on the type water I am fishing.  Another way to do it, and it is easier, is to tie on about 2-3 feet of tippet using a double surgeon’s knot or barrell knot and leave a foot or less of the tag end intact — i.e., do not cut the tag end short.  This works just as well as the first method and is easier to tie.  I sometimes use a large dry fly (#12 Elk Hair Caddis tied with CDC feathers) tied to the leader and about 2 feet of tippet (same size!) tied to it’s hook bend, with an appropriate caddis nymph tied on as the dropper.  The dry fly then acts as a strike indicator —  I once caught a small brookie on the dry fly and while landing it, a larger brookie took the Rhyacophila nymph!  I lost the larger trout, but managed to land the little fella — fun and games when you have two on at once!! Sorry for the rambling reply, but I hope it helps. Good drifts, Paul LaCourse  

Response:

I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.  I cast short, not much longer than the lenght of the leader and the leader that the fly is on (the shorter one) tends to wrap around the leading one.  I tried using a thicker line, a realy short one too; did not really help much.  I tried to tie the second leader to the base of the hook, I tried the eye of the hook; if I use thin tippet and I kept loosing flies when setting the hook(poor fish..) Is there a knot I could use that will prevent that?  Or what should I do?  Thanx for any advice, Arek.

Arek:    The only thing I could add to the previous post is that you may need to pay more attention to your casting. Open that casting loop a bit so that you’re not throwing a very tight loop and you sure need to make sure that the back cast is fully extended before starting the forward cast so that east doesn’t meet west. I generally will use the same diameter tippet for the point fly as I’m using for the top one. Jim

Response:

Arek, I have tried fishing two flies, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.

Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Burton,         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen. Yeah, especially when a big fish is making a run and that second fly gets it’s barb caught on a rock.  Argh…!         The salmon fly came         to an abrupt halt.  The fish, caddis fly and dropper didn’t.         I just stared at the errant salmon fly for some time, trying         to fully absorb the reality of the situation.  The image is         still vivid.

That’s why I added the Argh!  I’ve had this happen a couple of times, once with a nice steelhead on.  Image my embarrasment when I finally realized I was fighting a rock.  You are right the image is very vivid. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.

        What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.                                         Tom Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 External Research Program                          FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

What we used to do for two flies, was use an extension of the heavier leader material to tie the dropper to. Sometimes you needed two or three x-ratings differential to assure you wouldn’t tangle. This required good knots where the two mono sizes were joined. Jim N.

Response:

I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.

I use a surgeon’s knot to attach a tippet, and I tie one fly to each of the two tippet tails.  I leave one tail long (18") and one short (6"). I tie a big dry fly to the short tail and a nymph to the other.  Then I cast great big wide loops.  It works OK for me.  Yes the casting is a little laborious, but it is pretty exciting when you get two lunker dace  on at once! Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arek, I have tried fishing two files, actually nymphs on on one line and I cannot find a right way, or right knot to use, so they will not tangle up all the time.         What I do is tie the larger of the two flies to the end of the         tippet, then tie a second tippet to the eye of the first fly.         The second tippet is usually about 18" long, and often of a         smaller diameter than the first tippet.  The second fly is         tied to the end of the second tippet.  This method does not         seem to have a significant effect on drift or hooking.         Tangles are almost impossible to avoid if a dropper is used.         Most casting tangles can be avoided with a bit of care, but         your ability to control the situation ends when a fish takes         one of the flies.  That’s when the worst tangles happen.

Hi Tom and Arek, I tie the second tippet to the bend of the first fly with an improved cinch knot and then tie the second fly on the end of the tippet. I usually use about 24" of tippet. I have experimented with using the heavier fly as the first or second fly. I think fewer tangles are encountered when the heavier fly is on the bottom. Again experiment with using the a dry fly as the first fly with a lightly weighted nymph, soft hackle, or a tiny dry fly as the second fly. The first fly serves as a fishing strike indicator. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike, Although I live in the East Bay, I’ve been to a shop fairly close to you in San Bruno.  I think the name is Ultimate fly shop on San Mateo Ave.  Low key but good service.   Within in 2.5 hours there is good fishing on the Yuba, Feather,Putah Creek,and Stanislaus rivers.  Also Sea pearch, stripers etc. are close by.  Never done salt water, but here it’s very good. Welcome, Mike

Response:

(Mike Lynch) writes: I moved to the SF Bay area about 6 mos. ago and I thought I left my fly-fishing days behind me in Utah (where I’m from).  Anyway, I’ve actually heard there’s some good fishing around SF (I live in San Mateo). Any suggestions on where to fish, when to fish, good shops, what to fish for, etc. would be greatly appreciated.  Also, what about saltwater flyfishing – I’ve never done it – popular around here?

Hi Mike and welcome to the neighborhood. As far as shops go there are a bunch: the Midge shop in Los Altos, The Caddis (somewhere in Belmont), the Ultimate in San Bruno, and of course Orvis in San Francisco (where I can be found when I’m not teaching schools), – also Fly Fishing Outfitters around the corner from Orvis. There are only a few places that are day trips out of SF to fish.  Putah Creek coming out of Lake Berryessa is about 1 1/2 hr. from San Mateo (I live in San Mateo).  The Stanislaus River below Goodwin Dam and the Mokulumne River below Comanche Dam are a little over two hours away.  Both the Stanislaus and the Mokulumne are closed now to allow the salmon a chance to spawn unmolested, but will re-open on Jan 1st.   Through Nov. 15th you can drive 5 to 6 hours north and fish the Upper Sac, the McCloud, Hat Creek, the Pit River, and Fall River.  About 4 1/2 hrs to the upper part of the Trinity.  Lots of other small streams and lakes in this Shasta area. You can drive about 4 to 4 1/2 hrs. east and fish the Tahoe area in the Sierra – Truckee, Little Truckee, and numerous small streams and lakes. As long as Tioga Pass through Yosemite is open, the Eastern Sierra is about a 5 1/2 hr. trip.  Lots of great fishing around the Mammoth Lakes area to the south of the pass and the Bridgeport/Twin Lakes area to the North of the pass.  Most of this area closes October 31st, so be sure to check the regs. If you plan on fishing the Sierra, pick up a copy of Ralph Cutter’s book "Sierra Trout Guide".  It is invaluable to get you started in the Sierra and to help you plan trips for years to come. Since you live in San Mateo, you should take Hwy. 92 west to Half Moon Bay.  You can fish up and down the coast from there for Surf Perch and Rockfish.  Pick up a copy of Ken Hanley’s book "Afoot in the Surf Zone" for specifics on beaches, times, and quarry.  Don’t attempt this during the Pumpkin Festival as you could probably drive to Tahoe in the time it takes to travel the 20 or so miles to HMB during the festival.  Normally it’s a pretty quick trip – 1/2 hr. or so.   During June and July you can sometimes catch stripers in the surf at the beaches around the golden gate.  Fairly consistent striper fishing can be had in the delta, though you need a boat to do so.   If you drive down to Sant Cruz or Monterey you can rent a boat and go fish the kelp bed for Kelp Bass. And then of course, there’s the steelhead fishing on the north coast that is just starting.                              Good Fishing,                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Mike Lynch) writes: I moved to the SF Bay area about 6 mos. ago and I thought I left my fly-fishing days behind me in Utah (where I’m from).  Anyway, I’ve actually heard there’s some good fishing around SF (I live in San Mateo). Any suggestions on where to fish, when to fish, good shops, what to fish for, etc. would be greatly appreciated.  Also, what about saltwater flyfishing – I’ve never done it – popular around here? Hi Mike and welcome to the neighborhood. As far as shops go there are a bunch: the Midge shop in Los Altos, The Caddis (somewhere in Belmont), the Ultimate in San Bruno, and of course Orvis in San Francisco (where I can be found when I’m not teaching schools), – also Fly Fishing Outfitters around the corner from Orvis. There are only a few places that are day trips out of SF to fish.  Putah Creek coming out of Lake Berryessa is about 1 1/2 hr. from San Mateo (I live in San Mateo).  The Stanislaus River below Goodwin Dam and the Mokulumne River below Comanche Dam are a little over two hours away.  Both the Stanislaus and the Mokulumne are closed now to allow the salmon a chance to spawn unmolested, but will re-open on Jan 1st.   Through Nov. 15th you can drive 5 to 6 hours north and fish the Upper Sac, the McCloud, Hat Creek, the Pit River, and Fall River.  About 4 1/2 hrs to the upper part of the Trinity.  Lots of other small streams and lakes in this Shasta area. You can drive about 4 to 4 1/2 hrs. east and fish the Tahoe area in the Sierra – Truckee, Little Truckee, and numerous small streams and lakes. As long as Tioga Pass through Yosemite is open, the Eastern Sierra is about a 5 1/2 hr. trip.  Lots of great fishing around the Mammoth Lakes area to the south of the pass and the Bridgeport/Twin Lakes area to the North of the pass.  Most of this area closes October 31st, so be sure to check the regs. If you plan on fishing the Sierra, pick up a copy of Ralph Cutter’s book "Sierra Trout Guide".  It is invaluable to get you started in the Sierra and to help you plan trips for years to come. Since you live in San Mateo, you should take Hwy. 92 west to Half Moon Bay.  You can fish up and down the coast from there for Surf Perch and Rockfish.  Pick up a copy of Ken Hanley’s book "Afoot in the Surf Zone" for specifics on beaches, times, and quarry.  Don’t attempt this during the Pumpkin Festival as you could probably drive to Tahoe in the time it takes to travel the 20 or so miles to HMB during the festival.  Normally it’s a pretty quick trip – 1/2 hr. or so.   During June and July you can sometimes catch stripers in the surf at the beaches around the golden gate.  Fairly consistent striper fishing can be had in the delta, though you need a boat to do so.   If you drive down to Sant Cruz or Monterey you can rent a boat and go fish the kelp bed for Kelp Bass. And then of course, there’s the steelhead fishing on the north coast that is just starting.                             Good Fishing,                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Snip Funny, I moved ther other way… CA to UT. The fishing here is great. I just wanted to mention the Cassel Forebay near Hat Creek in northern CA. Returned there two weekends ago for my annual Columbus Day trip and thought the place is getting better all the time. I know Dick Gallands house and school are right there, but best kept secrets need to leak out once in a while                 Draper, Utah Wherever you go….. There you will be

Response:

Hi all, I moved to the SF Bay area about 6 mos. ago and I thought I left my fly-fishing days behind me in Utah (where I’m from).  Anyway, I’ve actually heard there’s some good fishing around SF (I live in San Mateo). Any suggestions on where to fish, when to fish, good shops, what to fish for, etc. would be greatly appreciated.  Also, what about saltwater flyfishing – I’ve never done it – popular around here? Thanks, Mike Lynch

Response:

Question:

: What are the pros and cons of the expensive fly lines vs. the lower end : lines.  For example the Cortland 444 lazer vs the 333 lines.  Thanks   There are differences when you compare these two lines. The Cortland 444 is the industry standard fly line. It is offered in many more types and configurations than the 333. The 333 is the predecessor to the 444. The 444 is more supple, longer lasting, and slick than the 333. It also comes with a one year warrenty against failure. My experience with Cortland is that any 444 line returned will be replaced for free. This happened one year at the shop where we had many customers come back with defective lines. We had instructions from Cortland to take back all lines at that time. Their testing showed that they had a bad batch!   There is also a higher performance level with the more expensive lines. I find that they float higher and are easier to cast. The best line Cortland currently has is the 444 LazerLine. It has a textered finish. This line is the most supple, easiest mending, and farthest shooting line of any "general purpose" trout line I have used. Both 333 and 444 are good lines Jon Porter

Response:

What are the pros and cons of the expensive fly lines vs. the lower end lines.  For example the Cortland 444 lazer vs the 333 lines.  Thanks

In my opinion there aren’t many differences between lines that make a huge difference.  Higher priced lines are usually made from better materials(tougher, stronger, self lubricating, Uv resistant, etc.) but the taper really isn’t a measure of "quality".  It all depends on your casting style and requirements.  Some line may better match your technique and give better results (i.e. some people may perfere the same line in double taper vs. weight forward or vice versa).  Your fishing requirements (if they are very specific)  may demand that you must spend the extra money for a higher   end line but that is sometimes the nature of the beast!  Good luck,                         Joshua Haddock

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