Question:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang  South! S.

<splorkski

Response:

I’ve heard the Cabela’s Three Forks is a good stick… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

… It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

We expect EVERYBODY to "take a ration". That’s the nature of the place and newbies are not exempt. It takes a pretty thick skin to voice an unpopular opinion around here but I, for one, agree with you about the Korean piece of shit Cabela’s Three Forks. Hang around, ignore most of the shit-weasels and give tit-for-tat to the rest. You might have fun. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group?

Why not form your own group and thus avoid riffraff and grumpy old men? Or simply die? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing.

It is even more astonishing to contemplate how ill equipped you are to determine what anyone expects or who is offended by what.  But then, what with your head spending so much time up your ass, all that buggery was bound to have some unpleasant consequences, wasn’t it? I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously.

Well, aside from the fact that the vast majority of us have only a single self (unlike some other highly uninteresting individuals who only drop in occasionally to take a much deserved and inevitable drubbing) and that the group as a whole also has only a single self, what you may or may not believe you think (assuming such a ludicrous notion has any applicability to this or any other world) is a matter which no one here is likely to take seriously. Except for Wolfgang,

Always quite flattering to be thought of as exceptional. but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds.

Genius.  Sheer unadulterated genius.  Mind if I use that one some time? Believe me,

As a rule, that is not likely to happen. I am not worth getting too worked up about.

We believe you. Just killfile me

No.  That has never worked for you before…..why would you think it would this time? and get on with your life,

Well, aside from the fact that we do not share a single life (each of us having been bestowed with an entire one of his or her own), what in the world would make you think that any of your pusillanimous pettifoggery would prompt anyone to put his or her life on hold for even the briefest instant? as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound.

Actually, it doesn’t, for all of the reasons stated above. Wolfgang and he STILL doesn’t get it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bugger Everybody

Response:

"pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" "pusillanimous pettifoggery" Cool.

Response:

Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men

And just how do you know we are old? I mean, you could be a lot older and are obviously quite grumpy enough for us all. Oh, and you forgot the "cor" at the beginning of your email address. — HTH, Tim

Response:

Hello all you hansom, intellectual, talented ROFFers (especially rw), Hi Bugger too, Everyone that could not take the diversity of fly fisherman on the web here already left this group years ago slamming the door loudly. You have to be very open minded to be here for the long hall. You have to have a sense of humor too. I remember sitting here years ago, dead of winter, nothing going on and "T-bone" would make a post that made me laugh so loud that I woke my wife in the next room. You have to be half crazy to have a fly shop to because we get some customers that make George look passive. Only stay here if it is worth it, but save the complaints because we have already heard them all. I don’t care if you are a "nympher" or a "troller" or just "too cerebral", OK, now I will tell a bed time story for you guys. (10:30pm in California) When I was a teenager I ran around with a neighborhood group of guys in south Sacramento. When I was with the group, someone was always teasing me about my clothes or my hair or something I said. One day I just left mad. The next day at school a friend ask me where I went. I told him I did not think many of them liked me because they always teased me. He said that they teased everyone in the group. My friend said that if they did not like you, they would not say anything thing to you. Most people just want to be noticed. My friend was pretty smart. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

Suggestion withdrawn. It just occurred to me that I am pretty grumpy, and certainly not young, which is to say approaching middle age, as long as I plan to live until I’m 85… Bugger Me p.s. My apologies to the troll about advice for a ‘fishing pole’. I figured this group would jump all over the faux paus of calling a fly rod a pole. What do I get? Advice. Shit, maybe I’ll try out the 3 forks. p.p.s. Wolfgang, do you fish? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not avoid the riffraff and start a private group? rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.grumpy.old.men It’s astonishing how the denizens of this group expect newcomers to take a ration and yet are so offended at the slightest ribbing. I think you take yourselfs a little too seriously. Except for Wolfgang, but I bet he’s not so glib when he’s low on meds. Believe me, I am not worth getting too worked up about. Just killfile me and get on with your life, as mature, and therefore out of the question, as that may sound. Bugger Everybody

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish?

Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

Response:

….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang

 South! S.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Wolfgang, do you fish? Been thinking about trying it.  Care to recommend a good pole? Wolfgang South! S.

Lech Walesa! G.C.

Response:

Question:

I GOT IT!  The worst insult on ROFF: "Gink for brains"

I like that mucho.

Response:

Certainly explains a lot. Floatant instead of brains. No wonder some get light headed. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Yes it is entirely reasonable Scott. St Croix has the Legend series of fly rods for around $100, I own 3 of them and entirely satisfied with them all. There are several of us on this NG who have "discovered" Cabela’s 3 Forks and Stowaway series flyrods. I can tell you that I have extensively tested all my 3 Forks and Stowaways and they are well worth the money. Probably the best dollar for dollar buy on fly rods anywhere. Since you are new at this flyrodding business, a slower action rod would be the best choice for you, and the Cabela’s rods are slow action rods.  You will be fishing for trout on the Rogue (presumably) I would recommend a 5 wt 9 footer.  St Croix carries this in One other piece of advice, you can get a good reel these days for around $40 and up, and that’s really all you need, but get a decent quality line.  Hope this helps. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… p rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… b cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Welcome to flyfishing Scott.  If you want a very economical starter set, I would suggest a Pflueger Purist 5 or 6 wt 8 1/2′ rod from Kmart or GI Joe’s for about $45 and a Pflueger Medalist reel (about $30?) or an Okuma Sierra (for $39 from www.Ezyflyfish.com), and a Cortland Fair Play fly line to match the rod.  All for well under a $100.  The rods are surprisingly good performers compared to anything I’ve tried for under $100.  I agree with the idea of renting or borrowing some equipment first, if possible, and also taking some flycasting lessons. Good Luck flyfishing, Pat K * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

John, I got the beer, but where’s my steak? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

I’ve been watching this thread pretty close and it has come to my attention that more well thought out posts are now being offered. There are a great many more posts that recommend low cost great for beginners starter kits like the Cabelas line and a lot less of the "what do you want to fish for and where" along with the "get what fits you" and "The better you learn with, the better you’ll be (meaning spend a bundle on a fast long rod.) The last of which is pure BS. A beginner needs a rod that will let him feel loading and allow him time to react, is forgiving of off timing and minor foepas. Is not expensive to buy leaving enough for vet flys etc. is short enough not to tangle in tree limbs. Last but not least is a combination that is still of use even after the graduation up to the faster longer rods as expertise grows. The best advice is to amass all the mail order catalogs you can get. Study them, Then purchase a starter combo that is slow, short , and pleases your eye. By the way the reel is important unless you are fishing for shinners. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

The FAQ page can be found on the new ROFF page.  The link is bellow.  A lot of other good ROFF information is also on the page.  Enjoy.  :-) BTW, I like the Cabela’s rods for the buck.  Check out http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/C abFALL1998/CabFALL1998AVATAA/IA495C They are in your price range and would be a good starting point. However you should know that after you’re hooked, you might want something that cost a little bit more and that fits your particular fishing style. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. (snip) Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland for $150 and this Cahill (snip)… I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

YES Thanks! Scott

Before you buy.

Response:

…this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG.

There is a FAQ somewhere, but the best advice on ROFF is "DUCK!" and "Be afraid, be very afraid…"  <G.  Seriously, a FAQ on this would be kinda useless, as there are many opinions.  You know what they say about opinions and assholes?   Well, ROFF is ground zero…<G. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy.

Oregon?  There are some here that will be a great help, I’m sure. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65.

JMO, but I wouldn’t buy your first rod via mail order.  Trying to buy a rod/reel this way is like saying "I like blue.  Please send blue pants." You really need to actually feel, handle, and optimally, cast the rod, especially as a novice. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

Well, again, JMO, but you did ask:  Is that reasonable?  Yes.  Possible? Yes.  Likely?  Depends.  Confused?  Sorry.  Seriously, it is related to the advice above in that you need to find a rod you like, and you might like a 20.00 rod or you might like a 2000.00 rod.   If your situation is such that money is no object, then buy what you like, period, be it 20.00 or 2000.00.  IMO, any synthetic rod over about 200.00 is priced for reasons other than "cost," i.e. seat and handle hardware, finish, guides, name, handwork, warranty, etc., and is a "value to buyer" situation.  This is OK, just understand what your money is buying. If you need/want to stay on a budget (or just have a frugal streak), go get a cheapo rod and reel (if you buy a "Starter Set," you will likely need another line) at WalMart/KMart or get something used, like at a pawn shop, in the appropriate size.  Why?  Simple: you likely don’t know what you like, and having no experience to go on, won’t know cheap from expensive, or even if you like the sport, so why risk any more than needed to check it out?  I’ll say JMO, but I’d doubt any could prove me wrong: A 20.00 flyrod can have, and usually does have, more in common with a 1000.00 rod than a novice would think, same for a 15.00 versus a 600.00 reel (learning, practice, freshwater, and, generally, fish under 15ish pounds), but a 15.00 line is not likely even close to 40.00 line. A 1500.00 rig will not be easier or faster to learn on, nor will it necessarily be "better" for a particular person.  Buy a good DT (Double Taper) line for practice because when you wear one end out _practicing_(hint, hint), you can reverse it and have a "new line."  A WF (Weight Forward) would seem a waste here, but YMMV. Also, JMO: you can teach yourself, but lessons from a pro or experienced flyrodder can be invaluable and will likely speed things up.  This is where some "budgeting" might come in: If a shop you like and feel you trust offers free classes for new customers, but charges for non-customers, that might figure into the above "cheapo" advice, and would likely be worth figuring in. HTH? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Scott

Response:

Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo,

You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Question:

Not at all, the computer is built into the handle of my large arbor,  the modem is in the reel seat of my nine weight, and my telecopying staff doubles as a printer, and I only write this stuff on the fly. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

(don’t keep the knife in your chest-fly-box, you may fall and cut your tits)

LOL Many newsgroups go through cycles of on-topic, then a spark, then much nastiness, then a cool-down, then humor, then on-topic…… We appear to be in the humor stage. Regards, Jeff

Response:

If you wish to learn fillet trout, a very useful skill in life, there are several ways to do it, and two require a knife, grab a knife, then grab the trout, and cut it into bits, (don’t keep the knife in your chest-fly-box, you may fall and cut your tits) This applies to other things as well, and if certain gear you

Question:

It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…The shop I guide for has a deal with Terry in which we guide anyone who wants to fish there. The fish are too huge to land alone so this is recommended. I have fished there a bunch and can assure you that there is nothing easy about landing a 6 pound Kamloops on a sz. 18 pheasant tail. The fishing is easy- if you use a cork pellet- but if you fish it according to the hatches and the mood of the fish its a damn fun time and a challenge. For a time this year I was nailing them on a sz. 18 sulphur parachute – it’ll make your knees shake watching a 26 inch brown sip down a fly that small. . My personal best was a 15 pound rainbow. I caught her on a sz. 16 beetle, barbless…..My funniest catch was a 20 some odd inch Kamloops that put me into the backing in one long run. It took the fly, turned tail and ran straight at me, jumped chest high into the air, bounced off  a boulder in front of me and kept on hauling. She ran 60 feet in one run. The run was so violent I ended up tangled in the trees 50 feet downstream. I ran after her, pulled my line out of the trees, and tried to reel her in. Another run upstream, and the down…….I landed her after a long fight. Funny thing is, I was just showing my guest how to roll cast and didn’t expect to hook Granted, it may be fake, but it will have you shaking in your boots. By no means is it easy.  Any how, enough rambling, I’ll let you guys know what Terry says tomorrow. I just decided that I’m going to fish there for a while in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Response:

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…

That’s right nice of you Matt. I actually knew that you were a guide for that stretch of water from talking to Walt and from reading your emails on the NC list, but since we haven’t met, I didn’t want to be so bold as to ask a favor. However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

Response:

No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

How does IJ do that, anyhow?  I already told Walt I was coming to the spring clave in Carolina.  However, I forgot to mention that my attendance was contingent upon the presence of Indian Joe.  Wouldn’t be a Carolina Clave without THE MAN being there. Mark Faulkner

Response:

However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

        since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual wayno the innocent

Ahhhh, Becky and Jody; I taught them everything they know back in ‘74. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

(snipped extremely large dose of fermented BS) in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Walt, Matt’s been at the mushrooms again. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk.

That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0) Louie

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0)

You forgot to say ‘f*ck profanity’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

As Delbert McClinton says, "it ain’t what you eat but the way how you chew it". — Charlie…

Response:

since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

LOL.   I seem to remember a similar incident involving a certain cactus. Of course you’re the legal expert here, but our president has made abundantly clear the difference between "innocent" and "not convicted". Joe F.

Response:

I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago, detailing the steps.  I think he enjoys the anonymity. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC The older you get, the better you realize you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out. If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin. I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.      I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave.   All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

IJ…might be time to adjust the medication a bit <G. BTW, it’s a different crowd "downstream" in avery/watauga…they’ll have you locked up on charges for environmental pollution within the first day! … of course, you’ll probably be staying over at elk river at tom selleck’s place won’t you? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Response:

Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements I agree with Walt.  I once belonged to a local ffing club.  Three heavily stocked ponds with very big fish.  After fishing there for awhile, I found out where the term "shooting fish in a barrel" came from.  It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

Response:

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements If they’re Orvis endorsed I’m sure Dave can pull some strings<g. — Charlie…

these waters, in a sense, are orvis endorsed. to fish them, you hafta arrange a guide trip at the orvis shop. I believe it’s $450.00. is it fake. well, in the sense that there ain’t no other stream in the state with fish like this…sure, it’s unreal, afterall, they are fed daily. are they big fish….well, they’re mighty damn big fish! kamloops, browns and rainbows, many well over 30". the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen, some 24"+. california golden trout in the 24" range. 100’s of fish between 12" & 24". it’s a sight to see, but it ain’t "real." does that mean i don’t fish it? hell, are you crazy? i’ll  fish it every time i’m lucky enough to wrangle an invite, which appropriately, is just once this year. there is a thrill involved with a 30"+ fish on a 3wt…even if it is "fake." is it wise to sneak in there….go ahead boys…. make terry’s day, or should i say, make his wolves day! yup…wolves. btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool.

Do you think there’s a chance that if we told him what we’re planning (I’d be willing to give it a shot) that he might make certain allowances for us (reduced fee, no guide requirement, etc)? I think feeding the fish kinda crosses my own little line of what’s real and what’s fake, but as long as we’re gonna be in the area and all it would be nice to catch a really really big trout. –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.

If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a

call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring

clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.

I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in

Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife) Firt of all, wuss, you announce nothing to the dear lady — you tell or "inform" her that you are going fishing with the guys next May.   Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Response:

I’ve reformatted your announcement below for the less fortunate. Also, I saw Boone’s Fork listed on your page. Does this mean are you going to talk your friends at Boone’s Fork into letting us fish their "fake fishing" stretch–or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt

Response:

-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.    Indian Joe

Response:

-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.  Indian Joe

sorry ij…i guess the html kilt it. i’ll try again. ***ANNOUNCING*** The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt Hope to see ya there. Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  ’00 R.O.F.F. Spring Fling Hope to see ya there. Walt

Response:

Question:

Have you found that those folks asking for quotes on 4 different boats with 16 different power options do or do not end up buying boats from you?  - Bud

I hold my breath for the day I sell a single boat via the web, Bud. I spend hours working on quotes and have not had a single sale to date. My feeling is that most people are using my quote to ensure their dealer is not out of line. Great for them, a poor allocation of time and resources for me. I suspect the used boats page (when up later this month) will prove more productive. — Regards,         Dave Brown         Brown’s Marina         Ontario, Canada         http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

Response:

Dave, with a Zero to X hit ratio, why do you bother to continue with the internet quotes?

Have you found that those folks asking for quotes on 4 different boats with 16 different power options do or do not end up buying boats from you?  -

Bud I hold my breath for the day I sell a single boat via the web, Bud. I spend hours working on quotes and have not had a single sale to date. My feeling is that most people are using my quote to ensure their dealer is not out of line. Great for them, a poor allocation of time and resources for me. I suspect the used boats page (when up later this month) will prove more productive. — Regards,         Dave Brown         Brown’s Marina         Ontario, Canada         http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

Response:

Dave, with a Zero to X hit ratio, why do you bother to continue with the internet quotes?

I guess because I’m waiting to see whether or not it will change in the future. The reality is, people are far more apt to be rude and demanding via the Internet than by phone because of anonymity and I suspect I will grow tired of this sooner rather than later. — Regards,         Dave Brown         Brown’s Marina         Ontario, Canada         http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

Response:

I hold my breath for the day I sell a single boat via the web, Bud. I spend hours working on quotes and have not had a single sale to date. My feeling is that most people are using my quote to ensure their dealer is not out of line. Great for them, a poor allocation of time and resources for me. I suspect the used boats page (when up later this month) will prove more productive. — Regards,        Dave Brown        Brown’s Marina        Ontario, Canada        http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

Dave, I think you’ll find your web site will indeed sell used product better than new.   Our web site has been very sucessful in marketing brokerage boats. Although I have been told by others their web based marketing attracts buyers for smaller boats, we’ve found just the opposite to be true. Good luck       bbys floridaboats.net

Response:

Dave; For what it’s worth… I judge a new boat dealer based on before and after-sales service and that overall "comfort level" we can achieve that makes me feel that I’m being dealt with honestly and fairly and that I will be taken care of, whatever may come.  I would imagine it would be tough to get that over the web.  I would and have paid more to go with the dealer of my choice and would do so again. On used boats, it’s all a matter of price and survey, so I would agree that used boats would make a lot more sense on the web. On the other hand, maybe this just means that, if you keep at it, and find the right formula to get people to feel comfortable with buying boats off the web, maybe you will end up a gazillion-aire!  I don’t know where you are, but I have seen auto dealers that advertise that they will fly you to their dealership to see the car of your choice.  Maybe that’s what it would take to get them in the door, but you’d have to be really good at qualifying and pre-closing sales!  Just make them keep fishing or waterskiing and don’t let them back to the dock until they buy… ;o) Good Luck and Keep the Flame! – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

boy, when those Canadians vent you can just feel the flames all the way down south.

Does this signal an early spring since Dave is thawing things out early? Bruce Edwards Shreveport Yacht Club It revealed to me, down in my soul, there were two shooters on the grassy knoll, we never walked on the moon, Elvis ain’t dead, you ain’t goin’ crazy, it’s all in your head. Let us sing.

Response:

Dave; Have you found that those folks asking for quotes on 4 different boats with 16 different power options do or do not end up buying boats from you?  - Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

Yep, I think he has Carl, Tell me , does an assult rifle have enough range to hit a target in florida from ontario?? hmmm, I better go check talk.politics.guns. till then I wear my kevlar cause I emailed dave for advice yesterday – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOOK OUT!!! Dave’s gone postal on us!!! Sorry Dave. . . I just couldn’t resist. If that’s venting, than you’ve got a lot more paitents than I do. I do agree with unspamming your addresses though. Carl G. Craver

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boy, when those Canadians vent you can just feel the flames all the way down south. Has a Canadian Mail Service Employee ever gone postal? — — Jim Proud, but feeble minded Regal Owner Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog: nobody enjoys it, and the

| It’s been a frustrating week in the e-mail department and I’m due to | vent again. | | Look folks, when you e-mail requesting information about a price or | service to anyone privately, UNSPAM you’re damn address so they don’t | have to find out after they deleted your inquiry that it bounced. | | One other pet peeve — asking for a quote on 4 models of boats with | sixteen motor options is simply unfair. Spend some time narrowing down | your search to make the request reasonable. | | The reality is, none of the people reading this post are the ones doing | this as these types of requests are usually generated by people who | surfed by my site. The reason I’m posting this is for anyone who who is | guilty of this when buying anything else on the net — think about what | you’re asking for. Reasonable requests get reasonable, timely replies. | | — | Regards, |         Dave Brown |         Brown’s Marina |         Ontario, Canada |         http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca | |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a frustrating week in the e-mail department and I’m due to vent again. Look folks, when you e-mail requesting information about a price or service to anyone privately, UNSPAM you’re damn address so they don’t have to find out after they deleted your inquiry that it bounced. One other pet peeve — asking for a quote on 4 models of boats with sixteen motor options is simply unfair. Spend some time narrowing down your search to make the request reasonable. The reality is, none of the people reading this post are the ones doing this as these types of requests are usually generated by people who surfed by my site. The reason I’m posting this is for anyone who who is guilty of this when buying anything else on the net — think about what you’re asking for. Reasonable requests get reasonable, timely replies. — Regards,        Dave Brown        Brown’s Marina        Ontario, Canada        http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

LOOK OUT!!! Dave’s gone postal on us!!! Sorry Dave. . . I just couldn’t resist. If that’s venting, than you’ve got a lot more paitents than I do. I do agree with unspamming your addresses though. Carl G. Craver

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s been a frustrating week in the e-mail department and I’m due to vent again. Look folks, when you e-mail requesting information about a price or service to anyone privately, UNSPAM you’re damn address so they don’t have to find out after they deleted your inquiry that it bounced. One other pet peeve — asking for a quote on 4 models of boats with sixteen motor options is simply unfair. Spend some time narrowing down your search to make the request reasonable. The reality is, none of the people reading this post are the ones doing this as these types of requests are usually generated by people who surfed by my site. The reason I’m posting this is for anyone who who is guilty of this when buying anything else on the net — think about what you’re asking for. Reasonable requests get reasonable, timely replies. — Regards,        Dave Brown        Brown’s Marina        Ontario, Canada        http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

I thought that only happened to me.  The one I like is the question to list the max speeds with all possible engine combos and payloads. Bill McCarty www.sandycreekws.com

Response:

It’s been a frustrating week in the e-mail department and I’m due to vent again. Look folks, when you e-mail requesting information about a price or service to anyone privately, UNSPAM you’re damn address so they don’t have to find out after they deleted your inquiry that it bounced. One other pet peeve — asking for a quote on 4 models of boats with sixteen motor options is simply unfair. Spend some time narrowing down your search to make the request reasonable. The reality is, none of the people reading this post are the ones doing this as these types of requests are usually generated by people who surfed by my site. The reason I’m posting this is for anyone who who is guilty of this when buying anything else on the net — think about what you’re asking for. Reasonable requests get reasonable, timely replies. — Regards,         Dave Brown         Brown’s Marina         Ontario, Canada         http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca

Response:

Question:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

http://www.reel-time.com/

Response:

Go to http://www.flyfishing.com and post messages about what patterns you’d like to know about. A lot of fly tying experts and commercial flytiers check in at this site. Also, if you are interested in getting a great bonefish pattern book, try Dick Brown’s new book on Bonefish Patterns–it’s excellent, especially for Bahamas patterns. Good fishin’ Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY

Response:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

Response:

Question:

Can someone let me know what conditions near State College are now and what they look like for this weekend?

Response:

The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

Response:

The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

Hi Dave I missed the original post.  What part of PA mare we talking about? If it is central PA (i.e State College area), how has the fishing been so far this spring? Ed Sowinski

Response:

Question:

Hi, I’ve been reading this group for a while, and I was wondering if anyone has info about when the steelhead run in the Russian or other Northern California rivers.  Also, any advice on flies/techniques

Response:

Hi, I’ve been reading this group for a while, and I was wondering if anyone has info about when the steelhead run in the Russian or other Northern California rivers.  Also, any advice on flies/techniques

Steelhead run in our coastal rivers generally in December, January and February. A few are caught before and after but the main runs are in this time. The Klamath and its tributaries have a fall or late summer run during September and October. (These fish actually bite flies) For the Russian River the best local info comes from King’s Bait and Tackle in downtown Guerneville.  I don’t have the number but call 707-555-1212. Typically for these winter run fish we need a good storm to open up the rivers, then a week or more to clear.  The fish hit flies best when the rivers are dropping and clearing.  Flies most often used are black and flourescent weighted wet flies in sizes 4-8 and also some big psychedelic maribou "popsicles". Deep drifts along the bottom are recommended. Also typical is a hundred fishing hours or so per winter steelhead caught on flies. But that hundred hours can be quite wonderful in the misty redwoods. I have yet to catch one of these coastal winter fish on flies after about twenty trips.  But to me just seeing a ten pound fish when I have a fly rod in my hands is enough. Good luck! Mark Vinsel May the wild fish live to spawn, and may the brood of their progeny break the tippets of our grandchildren!

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<snip Also typical is a hundred fishing hours or so per winter steelhead caught on flies. But that hundred hours can be quite wonderful in the misty redwoods. I have yet to catch one of these coastal winter fish on flies after about twenty trips.  But to me just seeing a ten pound fish when I have a fly rod in my hands is enough.

Yikes, Mark!  I’ve read your posts with enthusiasm and respect (here and on the listserver) for some time.  If you can’t catch ‘em, who can?   I was gonna get a heavier rod (only have my two backpacking 5wts) and give it a try….  OTH, as you say, there is nothing like the mist in the redwoods… Brook Schoenfield

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writes:

<snip Also typical is a hundred fishing hours or so per winter steelhead caught on flies. But that hundred hours can be quite wonderful in the misty redwoods. I have yet to catch one of these coastal winter fish on flies after about twenty trips.  But to me just seeing a ten pound fish when I have a fly rod in my hands is enough.

Hey Vinnie!! Even though you didn’t get a steelie, I can think of something else you may have caught.  ;-) BH’s Double D

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Yikes, Mark!  I’ve read your posts with enthusiasm and respect (here and on the listserver) for some time.  If you can’t catch ‘em, who can?   Brook Schoenfield

I’m sure some kid or beginner somewhere has walked right up, flubbed their cast and latched onto and landed one. Timing is key.  You can put your fly right in front of those winter fish over and over again with nothing to show, but sometimes I’ve heard they bite. That’s OK with me. I caught one Navarro river winter steelie about ten years ago on bait, and last year I had a hit on the Smith. I covered the Society hole and the run from the tailout above, over and over again before watching a drift boat baitor hook and land a twenty-pounder right where I’d fished.  Somehow the pleasure of flyfishing wins, and I gladly accept this part of luck.  As I caught one on the Thompson in BC my first trip, and have often had fall fish on the Klamath, I am plenty satisfied. Most often I go to get away from some urban stresses. Hooking a steelhead is not relaxing but casting and working the fly is. King harvest will surely come! -The Band Mark Vinsel May the wild fish live to spawn, and may their progeny break the tippets of our grandchildren

Response:

Question:

I have a brother who wants to post a classified for his guide business in Florida. The ad itself would read    Fly fish for Homasassa Tarpon    contact:    Chuck Massey    PO Box 1706    Keystone Heights, FL    $350.00/day    10 years experience. Top of the line equipment    Book now for May,June. July 1995 " Could anyone here tell me where a good place to post this might be? Please people giving me advice. Thanks in advance. Lance Massey

Response:

: I have a brother who wants to post a classified for his guide business in : Florida. The ad itself would read SNIP : Could anyone here tell me where a good place to post this might be? Please : people giving me advice. Why do I have this sort of wierd feeling that we have been "had"? B.S!

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