Question:

Thanks very much to everyone for he responses. We’re now saturated with new information. :=) –David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe.

Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

Response:

When we took the ferry in 1984, my understanding was that the ferry ended in Blanc Sablon, only because it was therefor an inter provincial ferry, and consequently was eligible for Federal subsidies!  Of course, the fact that there were only about four miles of road before entering Labrador was conveniently overlooked, as that sort of thing usually is here in the states. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon.

You can, however, take another ferry to Blanc Sablon from teh Quebec highway network at Natashquan. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

Response:

We drove to Newfoundland (from the west coast of Canada) in the summer of 1999. We took the ferry from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques, Newfoundland. We drove the 900 kilometres to St. John’s. Just outside St. John’s is Cape Spear which is the most easterly point in the continent. The ferry from Nova Scotia had no problem with even the largest of RVs. You’ll pay quite a bit for such a long load but considering the exchange on the US dollar, it probably won’t hurt that much. By the way, how can you pull a huge fifth wheel with a 1 ton truck? I had the idea that Newfoundland was just a big rock with fishing villages on the edge. Was I wrong! The interior of the province reminded me a lot of my own province BC. We camped at a site on a lake near Pasadena, just north of Cornerbrook, which could have been almost anywhere in BC. It was gorgeous. The people are wonderful. They are very friendly and helpful. The roads are not a problem at all. I can’t speak about the availability of diesel but there are certainly lots of trucks around so it must be relatively easy to find. Coming back we took the ferry from Argentia (about 100 kilometres southwest of St. John’s) back to Nova Scotia. This ferry runs only in the summer months (starts June 22 this year) and takes about 14 hours under normal circumstances. It saves having to backtrack the 900 kilometres to Port Aux Basques. When we went there was quite a wind so they took several hours removing chains from the vehicles on the car deck and then putting chains on our rigs. That turned the trip into almost 24 hours. Be sure to make reservations for the ferry. Check out the Marine Atlantic web site at http://www.marine-atlantic.ca We haven’t been to Labrador but I see there is a ferry service from Newfoundland to Labrador. Check out http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/ for the routes. There seems to be one that goes from St. Anthony but it looks like it doesn’t start until July 1 and it doesn’t seem to take vehicles. The other route seems to be from St. Barbe in Newfoundland and it starts May 1 and takes vehicles. The long option would be to come through Quebec of course. Have a wonderful trip. Allan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

Response:

Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

So – another WebTVer has all the answers!  NOT!! Tom J

Response:

In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer, Regards "Boats"

Response:

We went to Newfoundland in 1997 for three weeks.The island is large.It is about 500 miles across.You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.We had a great 3 weeks on the island and spent most of the time on the coast .I would say it as nice as BC coast with out the mountains. No problems finding a cg to stop for the night and the price was about 10 -25$ Most things cost more on the island but I would go again any time.The ferry cost me 450$ Canadian. This was for a return trip so that is why we stayed 3 weeks. I hope this helps some and have a good trip.. Lyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.

What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

Response:

Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer,

Sonny boy, I have had a computer continuously since 1974.  How long have you been a WebTVer?  There are some great people using WebTV but there are a great many more horses rear ends – like you!! — Tom J http://www.geocities.com/aviontravelcade/ http://www.geocities.com/tomj_ga/ Are we having fun yet?

Response:

Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.But I said I would fly there next time from Ont Canada and rent a car and do B& B when in Newfoundland and see a lot of things we had missed the first time.You will find everyone there is very helpful. and I am sure you will have a good time. Please let us know when you return what you think of the trip after your visit to the island. PS one thing I will tell you that we did not know is that before you return to the main land they wash down your rig and you are not allowed any potatoes on the return trip.I do not know  to this day why? Have a good trip . Lyle in South Ont CA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.

(snip for brevity) Hi, Rosemary.  Actually I was answering someone else that had plans on making the trip.  I have been to NF and you are correct — it is a wonderful place to spend lots of time.  I have driven to Labrador from Quebec to Labrador City/Wabush for a float-plane flyout with my grandsons to fish for enormous brook trout.  There really is not much in Labrador, but NF is an entirely different story.  We are new to RVing, but I am planning on NF as a destination in the future.  Can’t beat the $ exchange rate either.  <g Dave Dave

Response:

Whoops, when I mentioned that it cost $450.00(Canadian) for the ferry trip between North Sydney,Nova Scotia, and Port au Basques,Newfoundland, I neglected to say that was the price of 2 passengers,in a 26 ft. motorhome,and that we sailed from Argentia,Newfoundland on the return trip.(twice the distance on the return trip) Lyle Catherwood – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware

It is paved all the way east to Red Bay, and all the way west to St. Paul’s River. From St. Paul’s River west is a gravel road under reconstruction to Old Fort Bay; NE of Red Bay the gravel highway continues to Mary’s Harbour (from where you can go to Battle Harbour National Historic District by boat), and will be extended as far as Cartwright within two years. River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries.

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Well, personally, I’ve had good luck with Labradors, indeed any retriever makes a fine pet.  They’re loyal, smart (for a dog), and good companions.  Newfoundlands I haven’t had any experience with, sorry. HTH Jay — * Jay Denebeim  Moderator       rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *

Response:

Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area.

Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous.   For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

Response:

I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous. For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

Response:

Al Rolle writes: I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

There is only one road that leads into Labrador and that is Rt. 389 from Baie Comeau, Quebec.  Most of the road is gravel and you will constantly be traveling with or against lumber trucks that throw up big stones when they are in front of you or when they pass you.  I have driven it three times — I go fly fishing in Labrador every July.  Rt. 389 ends in Lab City/Wabush.  If you want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland. From the Tourist Bureau’s book: "Marine Atlantic’s modern car ferries also accommodate RVs all year round from North Syndney, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques in south western New Foundland. Throughout the summer, a second ferry sails from North Sydney to Argentia, bringing you to within an hour or two of St. Johns." Dave

Response:

want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia.

Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland.

The road goes about 300km east of Sept-Iles to Natashquan, paved the whole way. From Natashquan there is a passenger/freighter to isolated ports as far as Blanc Sablon, on which you can ship certain sized vehicles (inc. campervans) as freight. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs.

Yes, you can. All types of vehicles travel on this ferry. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first.

Newfoundland is one word. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be

Depends on your definition of "nothing". There is plenty of great hiking, canoeing, etc. less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador

Actually, you have 80km west to Old Fort Bay on the Lower North Shore; 70km paved east to Red Bay, and another 80 or 90 gravel to Mary’s Harbour beyond that. leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland,

Here are the most recent fares for the Sir Robert Bond, which connects Lewisport Nfld with Cartwright and Goose Bay, Labrador:  http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/schedules/E-bond.htm there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g

Depends on your definition of "little". If you have done "little" research, and have "little" energy, imagination, or interests, you will find little to do in Labrador. You’ll find the same thing in New York or Paris. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Question:

Depends on where you live … I suggest Hebeisen in Downtown Switzerland – i. e. Zurich – or Bernhard in Wichtrach. Toni Linder

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

Response:

Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

Response:

http://fff-e.tripod.com/addresses.htm This will give you all the FFF instructors in Switzerland. TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

Response:

Thanks Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://fff-e.tripod.com/addresses.htm This will give you all the FFF instructors in Switzerland. TL MC Hi, As a beginner, I’d like to join a fly fishing class this spring in Switzerland. Does anybody know where to go best? Thanks Roger

Response:

Question:

It all depends on the type of fishing and the material the rod is made from.  I don’t care for Bamboo rods over 7.5 feet, Fiberglass rods over 8 feet and Graphite rods over 9 feet.  When fishing small streams I prefer shorter rods because you can move through the brush easier. When fishing lakes and large rivers long rods are better. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have decidet to buy Loop green line rod aftm 5-6. Only problem is the rod`s length, 8,8 feet or 9,3 feet(no 9feet  )? What is the differense between these length in fishing? Im castin in a midle size river. My previously rod was 9 feet.

Response:

For general fishing purposes the longer the rod the better, up to a certain point, so I would go for the nine foot three inch model.   A great fly-caster I once knew was of the opinion that 9

Question:

I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter-of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

gee, he’s always said nice things about you 8<) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter-of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter- of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie

 Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ? Gierach has admitted he’s an alcoholic in print, stating in a recent book that he had to quit drinking several years ago. I don’t see the contradictions you speak of represented in his writings in such massive amounts. Sure, a few here and there but the guy’s human. I enjoy him for the most part. It sounds almost like he’s done something personal to you. Bob Before you buy.

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…a "recovered" alcoholic can be MUCH more annoying.

I’ll drink to THAT!

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Peanut oil is great stuff!! Use it once and you will never go back to canola or corn oil. Gierach is a great writer. He’s probably a great cook too.

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The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off. Many of the things Gierach does are silly. It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development. …so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems…

You sure do a lot of talking about his "many" problems, but you only mentioned 2.  And of those, only one was pertinent to your "book review".  (Alcoholism is not the point – how he writes is the point.) So.. you’ll either have to provide more or be considered an exaggerater. Regards, Jeff

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LOL!  that was a good one It’s easy enough to see if you look closely: "PEA…NUT oil" observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the oil).

Regards, Jeff

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Wolfgang Yeah, I got the same sense of his post. Like he is calling out for Gierach, expressing a deep groinial need to dis what he really desires. Its kind of like when Roadrunner is off the set eating a donut, and you see that empty stare of the truely lonely, beyond the kleig lights, past the makeup, you just know that a hug from the Key Grip, or maybe the Folli guy is what the ole runmiester could use. Dave Points of lite man, points of lite.

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 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.

Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon….

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 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon. Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon….

And donuts… — Charlie…

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 \  Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ?\   Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying.

really?!?!?, frying means more fat? yep, all fish should be baked, steamed, or boiled… with no seasonings… if you don’t like it like that then you shouldn’t eat fish <G. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.

whoever invented bacon should get a nobel prize for good taste. chris

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 Lol.  Let’s find the hidden meaning in Wolfgangs post: Don’t let it get to you Joe.  Poor Muskie’s post is actually a cry for help. OBVIOUSLY he’s got the hots for Gierach and he doesn’t quite know how to deal with his feelings. It’s easy enough to see if you look closely:

  (This one might escape the casual observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the

oil).   It’s kind of sad really, but there’s not much we can do about it. I’m afraid we’ll just have to let old Muskie work through this on his own.

" We’ll…just…have…to…gang….dipping….it" "let….this….easy….old….fillet..get..to..you" " Im ….afraid…..got…hots…Geirach" " sad…feelings…obviously..work….." -Muskie Before you buy.

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That was a pretty lame comeback,Muskie.Wolfie got you pretty good and I guess you’ll just have to take it like a man.(oops don’t quote me on that.)Serves you right for disrespecting Gierach.People don’t buy his books just to get information about cooking game or for flyfishing tips,( he is continuously disavowing his own expertise),he’s just a good writer period.Their aren’t many out there.I can barely get halfway through most of the flyfishing magazine articles I read because they are so full of cliches.

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You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. really?!?!?, frying means more fat?

Well, what do you think it’s deep IN? Regards, Jeff

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"let….this….easy….old….fillet..get..to..you"

Wow, so really…. Wolfgang and Muskie have a thing going?  I’m getting confused now… Maybe Wolfgang is Muskie’s father… "Search your feelings Muskie, you know it to be true."   "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Regards, Jeff

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<snip Que?

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\ That was a pretty lame comeback,Muskie.Wolfie got you pretty good and I guess you’ll just have to take it like a man.\

Hey I laughed at his post. \.Their aren’t many out there.I can barely get halfway through most of the flyfishing magazine articles I read because they are so full of cliches.\

  Chock full. —-Muskie Before you buy.

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 \  Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ?\

  Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.   \ Gierach has admitted he’s an alcoholic in print, stating in a recent book that he had to quit drinking several years ago.\

No kidding. I didn’t know that. His alcoholism was just so apparent to me  from reading EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES. \ I don’t see the contradictions you speak of represented in his writings in such massive amounts. Sure, a few here and there but the guy’s human. I enjoy him for the most part. It sounds almost like he’s done something personal to you.\

He has. He wasted my time. —Muskie Before you buy.

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[snipped] OT: There was one time when this sort of literary license bugged the shit out of me.   My wife insisted on seeing the movie "Message in a Bottle" (criminy, what a chick movie).   It was supposed to be set in North Carolina, but was so obviously filmed in New England that I cringed everytime there was a waterfront scene.   It ruined any chance I had (damned little) of enjoying the movie.

Hmm? I thought it was supposed to be set in Massachusetts, but they filmed it in Maine to get away from the Boston Teamsters… While I’m here – I disagree with Muskie’s "There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking." Au contraire: a "recovered" alcoholic can be MUCH more annoying. /daytripper (neither current nor recovered, thanks ;^)

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 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon. Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon…. And donuts… —

Mmmmmm donuts; and beer!  Sweet beautiful beer!

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Oh the hell with it.   I was going to write a thoughtful response; but f*ck that cros-posted troll bullshit.

Don’t let it get to you Joe.  Poor Muskie’s post is actually a cry for help. OBVIOUSLY he’s got the hots for Gierach and he doesn’t quite know how to deal with his feelings. It’s easy enough to see if you look closely: "PEA…NUT oil" observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the oil). It’s kind of sad really, but there’s not much we can do about it.  I’m afraid we’ll just have to let old Muskie work through this on his own.

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I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. (snip) boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go?

        having read your effort at literary criticism, i am convinced that they did not go into the gierach dissing business.         wayno

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I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. (snip) boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go?    having read your effort at literary criticism, i am convinced that they did not go into the gierach dissing business.

Ask not for whom the troll posts… — Charlie…

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Ask not for whom the troll posts… — Charlie…

That’s baaad, ten lashes with a sinktip for that one. Peter

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Oh the hell with it.   I was going to write a thoughtful response; but f*ck that cros-posted troll bullshit. I read Gierach.   I enjoy his stories.   I don’t give a rat’s ass how he cooks his food.   Since when are fishing tales supposed to be a paragon (zenith?) of accuracy?   (Damn. Where’s my Webster’s?)   Christ, what’d he do to you, boink your grandma? OT: There was one time when this sort of literary license bugged the shit out of me.   My wife insisted on seeing the movie "Message in a Bottle" (criminy, what a chick movie).   It was supposed to be set in North Carolina, but was so obviously filmed in New England that I cringed everytime there was a waterfront scene.   It ruined any chance I had (damned little) of enjoying the movie. Joe F. Joe F.

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Question:

Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

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William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

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Thanks Wayne…Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – William, I’ve been gone from there since ‘92 and really don’t know what is now part of some monsterous resort but I used to access the salt marshes at Little River and down towards Murrells Inlet, Pauley’s, and Georgetown. at that time I did not fly fish at that time but when the tide was running right, usually had a good shot at redfish. There is a state park in Murrells Inlet which gave good access to the ocean if surf fishing is in your cards. Wayne Can anyone recommend a good area to fish in the Myrtle Beach (Indian Wells) area. I’ll be down there the end of April. Last time I was down there I didn’t do any fishing but it seemed like access would be a problem to some promising looking areas. Thanks… Bill

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Question:

I will be in the Pocatello, Idaho area in the next couple of weeks, and was wondering if someone could point me to some fly fishing streams. I won’t have a lot of time, so the closer the better.

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Try Portneuf River near Bancroft (just below Chesterfield Reservoir – in fact, try the reservoir) – 1 hour east, Fort Hall Bottoms spring creeks- 40 min north, South Fork Snake River – 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 hours north, Henry’s Fork – 2 hours north, Silver Creek – 2 hours northwest, or a horde of reservoirs within an hour and a half south and east. Stop in at Jimmy’s All Seasons Angler in Pocatello for the latest info. Lance Hankins – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in the Pocatello, Idaho area in the next couple of weeks, and was wondering if someone could point me to some fly fishing streams. I won’t have a lot of time, so the closer the better.

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Question:

It is starting folks….water conditions are excellent and breaking into the low 40’s.  Hold on to your rods.  Six fish landed yesterday by folks all between 2 and 4 lbs. Good Luck. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

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 It is starting folks….water conditions are excellent and breaking into the low 40’s.  Hold on to your rods.  Six fish landed yesterday by folks all between 2 and 4 lbs. Good Luck. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

Wow: They start young in Vermont.  I already weighed over 8 lbs when I was born. (sorry, couldn’t resist.  I’m just jealous: most of our rivers are still frozen, and we don’t have rainbows here in New Brunswick). Brent

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Question:

   I fished the upper Arkansas several years ago upstream of Buena Vista. I remember public access was limited but locals directed me to some public water accessed at a bridge just up the highway a few miles from Buena Vista that was fun.  I got a few nice ones and lots of small ones.  Ask around at the shops. -al

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I will be spending a week in the Upper Arkansas river valley Aug 5 – 10. Will be with Wife and three small kids (to small to Fly fish), so at best I’ll have an hour or two a day to fish.  Any advice on places to fish, flys to use and local shops to offer advice? Thanks for the help, Dan

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I will be spending a week in the Upper Arkansas river valley Aug 5 – 10. Will be with Wife and three small kids (to small to Fly fish), so at best I’ll have an hour or two a day to fish.  Any advice on places to fish, flys to use and local shops to offer advice? Thanks for the help, Dan

I went to the Arkansas this weekend, but north of Buena vista on Hwy. 24.  It was too cold and rainy to fish, and I was discouraged by an utter lack of public access to the river.  I believe that the Arkansas near Salida provides good fishing and more public access.  I think all the normal patterns will work in the summer… good luck, — MORGAN P. BROWN                 Colorado School of Mines                 Rice University                 Phone:   (303) 215-9190 URL:     http://timna.mines.edu/~mbrown                http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mpbro

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Question:

I have a Tempo and camp/fish every other weekend. I love it!  It is a great car but space is somewhat limited.  I’m sure the car can handle the drive but you will have to pack wisely.  Space is adequate for 2 on short (1 week) journeys, but I suspect you may run out of places to store your gear if you will be out longer than that. Jim

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[ Article crossposted from rec.travel.usa-canada ] [ Author was Ray F Pero ] My wife and I will be travelling around the Yukon from late July until late August this year.  We will fly into Whitehorse, rent a car and drive around the territory.  We also hope to hook up with some local (inexpensive) outfitters for a guided wilderness experience. I need answers to three questions to help me plan our trip. 1) The best rental car deal appears to be for a Ford Tempo.  Would a Tempo be good enough for the drive up the Dempster Highway to Inuvik and back? 2) We intend to camp along the way to save some money on accomodations.   How much can I expect to pay per night at the campgrounds?  Is it necessary to reserve space ahead of time or can I just show up? 3) Many of the trips listed in the brochures I’ve received in the mail regarding wilderness adventure travel are prohibitively expensive.  Would there be any local guides who we could hire by the day for a more reasonable amount of money?  I don’t expect anyone to carry my gear or cook for me, I simply want someone who knows the local terrain and conditions and who could add an element of safety to the trip.  I’m hoping I can save money with the added benefit of tailoring the trip to meet our wishes.  How much would a local guide charge per day for such a trip?  We will bring all of our own equipment (except possibly for a canoe should we decide upon a river trip). Any help with the above questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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[ Article crossposted from rec.travel.usa-canada ] [ Author was Ray F Pero ] My wife and I will be travelling around the Yukon from late July until late August this year.  We will fly into Whitehorse, rent a car and drive around the territory.  We also hope to hook up with some local (inexpensive) outfitters for a guided wilderness experience. I need answers to three questions to help me plan our trip. 1) The best rental car deal appears to be for a Ford Tempo.  Would a Tempo be good enough for the drive up the Dempster Highway to Inuvik and back?

Yes, I think you would make it.  It is a really well kept gravel road in comparison to any gravel roads in the lower 48, and high clearance is not a requirement.  Make sure to bring at least one if not more spare tires in good shape and full of air as the gravel really eats up the tires. The only challenge on this road is the remoteness should anything go wrong. I blew one tire and it was shredded by the time I got the car stopped, the gravel is very unforgiving.  Also slow WAY down and/or stop and pull over as far as you can to the right whenever a truck is oncoming as they throw lots of gravel and don’t slow down for you.  Much better to take a gravel spray stopped than moving.  Also stop in Dawson before you start the trip and check on the current conditions at the visitors center.  They have nice videos to preview the trip and really get you excited and informed before you go.  Also plan on more days than you think for the trip. 2) We intend to camp along the way to save some money on accomodations.   How much can I expect to pay per night at the campgrounds?  Is it necessary to reserve space ahead of time or can I just show up?

No need to reserve space, there is no overcrowding, although if you are worried about getting a choice campsite then stop early in the day, like 4 or 5pm instead of 8,9, or 10pm.  Although all the campsites are great and firewood is included in your self registration fee.  Be sure to bring some sort of axe though as it is not pre-chopped. 3) Many of the trips listed in the brochures I’ve received in the mail regarding wilderness adventure travel are prohibitively expensive.  Would there be any local guides who we could hire by the day for a more reasonable amount of money?  I don’t expect anyone to carry my gear or cook for me, I simply want someone who knows the local terrain and conditions and who could add an element of safety to the trip.  I’m hoping I can save money with the added benefit of tailoring the trip to meet our wishes.  How much would a local guide charge per day for such a trip?  We will bring all of our own equipment (except possibly for a canoe should we decide upon a river trip).

Local guides are definitely available; just look for flyers in resteraunts and on posts, in sporting goods stores, asking around, etc. They are definitely the best way to go IMHO because they are usually locals who have lived there for a good long time and have a lot of character.  My personal recommendation is to plan to spend some quality time in Teslin, south of Whitehorse.  Teslin Lake is large, but provides excellent fishing opportunities, especially for Lake Trout.  There is also great fishing in the streams that feed the lake, and many challenging hiking trails.  I’m sure even canoeing would be a possibility.  We arrived in Teslin and wanted to fish for Lake Trout, found a flyer describing a guide, at the general store, went to the resteraunt and found a pay phone inside. We proceeded to make the call and it turned out the guide was in the resteraunt and answered on his mobile phone.  It was hilarious.  So we booked him for the next day and we had a blast.  I would definetly recommend him and if you would like his info I may be able to find it at home.  He also had all kinds of tips for the rest of our trip.  He informed us of where the locals tell people to fish and where the locals fish.  He also did guided hiking, rafting, etc. Well worth the $, and much cheaper than an outfitter. Any help with the above questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Have a great time; I wish I was going again. Feel free to email me with more questions. Ken Koca — Lockheed Martin Astronautics   (303) 977-5464 Mail Stop: T-3725 P.O. Box 179                   "Don’t think about Denver, CO  80201              memories, make them."

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Question:

A few weeks ago when I signed on, Prodigy informed me that they were downloading updated software. They claimed that this was going to speed up searching and reading files. Since then, my "updated" Prodigy seems to take twice as long. All this waiting time is billed at $3/Hr.  Is it my imagination or is the service worse than before? Now, I double click a FF post and it seems like about 2 minutes before I see anything. Anyone else have similar problem? If I look at 10 posts and have to wait 2 min each, thats 20 min or about a dollar per session. Something stinks about this "update" in my book. Dale Owens

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A few weeks ago when I signed on, Prodigy informed me that they were downloading updated software. They claimed that this was going to speed up searching and reading files. Since then, my "updated" Prodigy seems to take twice as long. All this waiting time is billed at $3/Hr.  Is it my imagination or is the service worse than before? Now, I double click a FF post and it seems like about 2 minutes before I see anything. Anyone else have similar problem? If I look at 10 posts and have to wait 2 min each, thats 20 min or about a dollar per session. Something stinks about this "update" in my book. Dale Owens

Poor Dale,(and you really will be at those rates!) I would look around for a better deal on internet connection. Here in Nova Scotia, we pay $25/mo. for 50 hours service plus $1/hr overtime from NSTN. Also do you have Free Agent Beta v0.55 yet? http://www.forteinc.com/forte/ This will definitely save you time and money you could be spending on flyfishing. Good luck, Warren Dobson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Owens) writes: A few weeks ago when I signed on, Prodigy informed me that they were downloading updated software. They claimed that this was going to speed up searching and reading files. Since then, my "updated" Prodigy seems to take twice as long. All this waiting time is billed at $3/Hr.  Is it my imagination or is the service worse than before? Now, I double click a FF post and it seems like about 2 minutes before I see anything. Anyone else have similar problem? If I look at 10 posts and have to wait 2 min each, thats 20 min or about a dollar per session. Something stinks about this "update" in my book. Dale Owens

My advice is; if you enjoy the internet, scrap Prodigy and find a real Internet provider. They’re becomming a dime a dozen. Ben

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