Question:

excerpt from xmision.com’s acceptable use policy "The posting of any advertisement or other commercial solicitation to any newsgroup or mailing list is strictly prohibited, except in the few areas specifically reserved for such postings."

How exactly was announcing the creation of a new Utah related fly fishing site a ‘commercial solicitation?’  The site’s not trying to sell anything. Cut the guy some slack.

Response:

I did. He posted a message earlier in the week and neither I nor anyone else commented. This is his second post within a week. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – excerpt from xmision.com’s acceptable use policy "The posting of any advertisement or other commercial solicitation to any newsgroup or mailing list is strictly prohibited, except in the few areas specifically reserved for such postings." How exactly was announcing the creation of a new Utah related fly fishing site a ‘commercial solicitation?’  The site’s not trying to sell anything. Cut the guy some slack.

Response:

New fly fishing website just launched… http://www.utahonthefly.com/

Response:

So your announcement last week wasn’t the real opening excerpt from xmision.com’s acceptable use policy "The posting of any advertisement or other commercial solicitation to any newsgroup or mailing list is strictly prohibited, except in the few areas specifically reserved for such postings." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – New fly fishing website just launched… http://www.utahonthefly.com/

Response:

Question:

[an ox and a moron snipped] jeff (awash in buffoon brains) — Ken Fortenberry

Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.   Let him have his little pretensions, it can’t hurt.  Anyway, at the next clave that’ll mean there’ll be more good beer available for the rest of us. Peter

Response:

ken…emulating jesse helms? Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". — Ken Fortenberry

"Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage! Before you buy.

Response:

 go to Golden.

Colorado? waldo

Response:

No, retriever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  go to Golden. Colorado? waldo

Response:

    In some parts of the world, the locals still hold to a bit of etiquette after a day of fly fishing.  I and a few of my Air Force friends had gone up to a tributary of the famous Tay in Scotland for a bit of atlantic salmon fishing.  The gillies took my partners upstream and let me off at a large pool to fish from a float tube.  Unfortunately, my partners had all the food an drink with them.  After 8 hours, I floated down to the stone gillie hut to rest and recupe.     When I arrived, I asked if there was anything to drink, I was dehydrated and starved.  One of the gillies had found two six packs of bud lite in cans floating in the river (I suspect left unsecured to cool by my friends). After being offered one, I was asked how I liked it.  Well, 12 oz. had gone down in about 30 seconds, but I honestly told the gillie that I hadn’t traveled all the way to England to drink crap American beer.     I was immediately reminded that "yurra naught in Angland lauddie!"  I was then asked if I wanted anything to chase the beer down with.  After nodding a parched acquiescence,  I was poured 4 (very widely spread) fingers of the local single malt in a tumbler from the pitcher on the table.  This "4" fingers was never allow to drop below 2 fingers and was immediately accompanied by extra sandwich halves that these fine gentlemen had left over in their rucks and accompanied by a couple of fine hours of debate on the state of flyfishing around the world from a working man’s level.  (As opposed to their standard customers in their Bently’s wearing their plus-fours).     The moral is, its not what you drink after you’ve done that day on the water, but who you spend that gentle time after with.  To quote one of these streamside philosophers:  "Thems wit da passion for a keen day of angling will always find a kindred soul on these waters."     (I hooked but caught no salmon that day.  In Scotland, the local tradition is if you catch salmon, you give the ghillie a bottle of scotch.)      In five months, I’ll retire after 22 years, 9 months in the USAF as a Master Sergeant.  I will miss it.  I’ve traveled the world and caught fish on a fly rod that to this day I’ve no clue what they were called.  But fishing is the great equalizer and fly fishing is the most universal of techniques.  I’ll especially treasure the people I’ve met, at times separated by the void of no common language but rejoined by the common love of our sport.  The old Korean gentleman with whom I sat on the rocks by the ocean as we converted my crawfish pattern into a passable shrimp and proceded to catch untold numbers of baracuda.  The German teenager who took me down to his "private" stream as we caught 10 in browns in a 5 foot wide creek.  The Phillipine town councilman with whom I spent countless hours pulling a tilapia like fish out of a swamp using a beetle fly.  The fine people from Mustad (like Ole Bjerke) that I met at the Partridge of Redditich Days in England, allowing me the opportunity to sit down to lunch across the table from Poul Jorgensen and his beautiful bride.  And others like Magnus Angus of Fly Fisherman and Fly Tyer magazine, the most beautiful flyfishing magazine in the world.     The famous and the common, the coarse and game angler, we all look forward to the gentle time after a day on the water, to heft one with "thems wit da passion."                                                             Frank Reid

Response:

ken…emulating jesse helms? Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". "Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage!

Uh oh. This thread has a Chernoble feel to it… /daytripper (headin’ for the bunker and taking my ales with!)

Response:

Snip a fine story, every bit as refreshing as an ice-cold Coors after a day Good one Frank from another retired Frank.  My big regret is that I didn’t take up flyfishing until after I retired from the AF,  given all the vacation spots the AF payed me to visit.  I don’t want to think about the opportunities missed, blown away forever because my interests were elsewhere. Ah, but no real regrets either because that was 20 of the best years of my life…and the subsequent 30 years ain’t been bad either.  If you’re new to ROFF, welcome, if a long time lurker, welcome from the rest of us semi-lurkers. You must have some interesting stories to relate to us, please do, as I fear the shack-nasties have set in *big time* in this group. Besides, it’s 5 degrees outside my door right now, my fishin’ gear is gathering dust in the corner, and it seems like forever till ice-out. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED    The famous and the common, the coarse and game angler, we all look forward to the gentle time after a day on the water, to heft one with "thems wit da passion."                                                            Frank Reid

——

Response:

The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

Response:

budweiser is a classic example of a beer done bad… One can (easily) say that budweiser (bad beer) is not my cup of tea… i’m not particularly fond of budweiser… One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer… Catch my drift? jeff – known to drink anything other than budweiser before and after         flyfishing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

Response:

The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo

TWEEEEEET! There’s a flag on the play! You didn’t use any OT words!! — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com

Ooops! OK – you snuck by on a technicality. We’ll pick up the flag ;^)

Response:

budweiser is a classic example of a beer done bad…

Not true, my ignorant redneck friend. Budweiser is, as a matter of fact, one of the world’s best Pilsner Lagers. It’s a little less hoppy than its eponymous predecessor from Czechoslovakia, but that’s by design. The hops are indeed real hops, not hop extract, and Budweiser is lagered for at least 32 days. One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer…

If one wishes to expose oneself as a brainwashed buffoon who doesn’t know shit from shinola about beer. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Not true, my ignorant redneck friend. Budweiser is, as a matter of fact, one of the world’s best Pilsner Lagers.

there’s an oxymoron bulging in that sentence, my effete asshole pal…but you probably chose the wrong one… It’s a little less hoppy than its eponymous predecessor from Czechoslovakia, but that’s by design. The hops are indeed real hops, not hop extract, and Budweiser is lagered for at least 32 days.

nouveaux beer? One can easily say budweiser is a bad beer… If one wishes to expose oneself as a brainwashed buffoon who doesn’t know shit from shinola about beer.

"shit from shinola"…now there’s a real beer drinker’s comment!! jeff (awash in buffoon brains) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

"Polite" Hell! That’s just stupid! Even for the self- proclaimed "asshole" to call Budweiser a good Pilsner Lager is asinine. Beer is made with barley. Butt-Wiper is made with rice. Garbage!

Go fish. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ? yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo TWEEEEEET! There’s a flag on the play! You didn’t use any OT words!! — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Ooops! OK – you snuck by on a technicality. We’ll pick up the flag ;^)

ok, i’ve been flagged… how ’bout.. thar once was a gal, mona lisa from the lovely town of pisa all her suitors in town always wore a frown cuz they couldn’t get a pisa lisa i know…go sit on the bench. waldo, speakin of football… go jags, go bucs!

Response:

ken…emulating jesse helms? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew. Yeah, yeah. Do your homework. When you’ve read enough about beer to be in the "almost has a clue" category you will realize that Budweiser is in fact one of the world’s finest Pilsner Lagers. Golden, if you actually do deign to read a book on the subject instead of pontificating like an ignoramus, go to Golden. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

ken…emulating jesse helms?

Nah, just settling back into ROFF and politely trying to suggest that perhaps I may not suffer fools as well as some might consider "polite". — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ?

That Budweiser smells like 450 year old French paint and is impossible to drink, even after FLYFISHING….? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Ken Fortenberry- known to drink Budweiser after FLYFISHING

Response:

The Mona Lisa is a classic example of a portrait done well. One can say that portraits are not my cup of tea and that I’m not particularly fond of portrait painting. One cannot say that the Mona Lisa is a bad portrait. Catch my drift ?

yeah, you been drinkin’ buds with asadi waldo — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Damn Jeff, you gonna let him call you a "hoppy eponymous ignorant redneck brainwashed buffoon who expose oneself and doesn’t know shit from shinola." Waldo

Response:

Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.  

Yeah, yeah. Do your homework. When you’ve read enough about beer to be in the "almost has a clue" category you will realize that Budweiser is in fact one of the world’s finest Pilsner Lagers. Golden, if you actually do deign to read a book on the subject instead of pontificating like an ignoramus, go to Golden. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

why should they…budweiser’s already done it! (make a bad beer, that is…for the hoppy eponymous among us)… jeff

I know, I know. AB does make bad beer. I myself have tasted it. It’s drek. It comes from satellite breweries in Florida and Virginia. What can I tell ya. Buy your Bud from St. Louis and check the date. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

…does that mean you’ll be bringin the sleemans? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [an ox and a moron snipped] jeff (awash in buffoon brains) — Ken Fortenberry Jeffey, anyone who considers Bud one the "world’s great Pilsner Lagers" is obviously a few hops short of a full brew.   Let him have his little pretensions, it can’t hurt.  Anyway, at the next clave that’ll mean there’ll be more good beer available for the rest of us. Peter

Response:

jeff (awash in buffoon brains)

Exactly. Brainwashed, bamfoozled and full of yuppie pretense. Anything OTHER must be GOOD. Jump on the mindless bandwagon, follow the trend. I like ales. In the fall I’ll drink a wheat beer. I enjoy a good many good beers from Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic. None of which will ever make Budweiser a bad beer. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I like ales. In the fall I’ll drink a wheat beer. I enjoy a good many good beers from Belgium, Germany and the Czech Republic. None of which will ever make Budweiser a bad beer.

to quote a self-proclaimed sage: "EXACTLY"!!  why should they…budweiser’s already done it! (make a bad beer, that is…for the hoppy eponymous among us)… jeff

Response:

um…no…but it is kinda cute, ain’t it?  i mean, when i go to the next monthly meeting of the HEIRBB (herby’s, for the acronymically challenged), i’d really be scorned if i didn’t recognize the shinola… jeff (in stecore veritas) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn Jeff, you gonna let him call you a "hoppy eponymous ignorant redneck brainwashed buffoon who expose oneself and doesn’t know shit from shinola." Waldo

Response:

Question:

So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

Now THAT is an address that lacks integrity and honesty.  Put it in your ear G2.  You posted this WHILE in the chat room.  Well pal, I’m still there.  Come and get it! George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Sorry G, I was in your chat room one night a long time ago and found no reason to return. I certainly wasn’t there last night. As far as "come and get it". I don’t like spam. With regards to the Email – the last time I put an email on a news group my inbox got filled with garbage from those like yourself. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities? Now THAT is an address that lacks integrity and honesty.  Put it in your ear G2.  You posted this WHILE in the chat room.  Well pal, I’m still there.  Come and get it! George Gehrke — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

Response:

Didn’t you know G2 Marsh that ROFF is Darwinian and Shakespearean and that all the parts are played by me?   So Ken, are you a shill for george or one of his multiple personalities?

____  Marsh, that you use a disguise to come to the Chat Site for Fly Fisherman makes you a sick puppy.  You were her tonight and when you could not get anyone’s ire up, you went away with your tail between your legs.  It seems you just cannot function on love and kindness pal. Please get a life other then with the Federal Government. But you’re still welcome in spite of yourself.  You couldn’t take the heat of kindness and you left the kitchen.  You just can’t handle niceness, huh? : ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

_____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G.   — http://www.gink.com

Response:

That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

Response:

Ken, If you really liked that go to George’s chat or his bulletin board. It is full of George’s prose. George, Since these messages disappear off of the mail servers maybe you should post them to your bulletin board and preserve them. Then when people like ken want to read them they know where to go. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was beautifully written.   Thanks for sharing that. Have you read any of the books from Roderick Haig-Brown?  His words are so eloquent and thoughts so devine.  I recommend his books too all who are interested in reading about fly fishing.  But he goes further than that. You learn about his interests, his childhood, his hopes, and you might even learn a few things about life. Ken. _____  I have been an avid fly fisherman ever since I was 10 years old, beginning with an old South Bend my Grandfather, Theodore Kurczak had purchased back during the great depression.  Those were the days of trying times when the entire family used to walked the railroad tracks out in the country picking up coal dumped or fallen off the steam engines of that era.  It was the days during 1934, the year I was born that my mother would walk three miles to the five points area of Toledo to buy me a quart of milk at black market prices.  The days of rationing stamps during world war two was full bloom when I was five, six, and then seven years old.  Trading gasoline stamps for food and the victory gardens where whole city parks were plowed under and for two or three dollars, a small garden plot could be planted by families to grow vegetables.  Food for our Armed Forces was in great demand and anything that helped feed America was considered.  It was the days of great integrity and honesty.  When away and not attending the garden every Saturday near DeVilbiss School, the hundreds of plots remained intact and not one tomato, not one radish, not one head of lettuce was ever stolen.  It was an era of unusual times. The fly rod was used to reach out in local creeks to catch bullheads and anything that would provide a share of much needed protein.  The war efforts greatest demand for preserved meats for our soldiers went into Spam Cans and on Spam the American Army marched across Europe and the Pacific Islands. Well, I was given this old South Bend Fly Rod and it was like new.  My parents sold out right after the war and bought a forty acre farm out in the country and with me went that fly rod.  Actually, fly rods are more useful in the country anyhow and this one was no exception.  Some of those stories of my youth have been hinted about in past articles such as "The Makings of a Fly Fisherman" ( see: http://www.gink.com/makeflyfisherman.htm ) It takes years to learn the progressive secrets in the world of trout. One needs to understand water if they are to understand trout.  More thought is given to flies and tying them and to all the trimmings that go with the pursuit rather then the thought necessary to understand rivers, and the timeless waters that bed there.  This moving entity is a witchcraft cauldron of churning possibilities.  If we can understand the rivers that contain this moving home year around may we possibly understand the magic’s that happen in a place we seldom see.  We stand in air and trout are below our feet mocking the higher intellect (it seems) under a window of imperfect vision as long as its moving.  In that, there is a certain danger that lurks for both.  One can drown in the water and the other drowns out of it. After spring run off, the modern day angler waits for the seasonal exodus of summer vacations when the rivers of no return get lower and lower and concentrations of trout are condensed into smaller and smaller runs and pools.  The lowest level on most rivers is just prior to Spring run off.  That month is around April just before those April showers that bring the flowers that bloom in May.  Around the 40th parallel, the colder latitudes are best fished with midges and very early types of small stone flies.  What is not realized is the really BIG FISH during all these more confined times do not come out except at night.  The big rainbows and browns and cutthroat and brook trout are actually nocturnal animals.  The are big because they have learned that they are prey to things much larger then they.  So they hide beneath under cut banks, log jams, deep under huge rocks and boulders and under deep rapids where the window above is broken and they cannot be seen.  As with humans, every day we live is a gift . . . and that is why each day is called ‘a present’. Spring comes with each days higher azimuths of the rising sun that softens the snows.  They start to bleed, unwillingly but give up the blood of life to the thirsty earth below.  The streams swell and as they do the soils run with the thaw.  The rivers turn darker and darker until the waters are a torrent of chaos and terror. Yet, the trout lives.  The trout adapt.  The trout move to the friction dragging shore lines where the current pulls on the banks, trying to draw them in, but no they hold fast. The river edges during the spring are a forest of trout who are not willing to be involved deep in the low visibility of the central rivers.  The torrents roll debris upon them including rolling stones that can kill or injure them.  If you can see the danger coming, you might have a chance.  If you can’t see, its suicide to stay there. The trout move to safety and that is to the edge of the river where the current is less and where the food is plenty. This is the time of streamers.  I fish more Zonkers and Muddlers during the spring run off then at any other time of the year.  One only needs hip waders and need not even get their feet wet for all that it matters.  A length of fly line out, cast maybe 10 degrees out into the edge of the main current and letting it swing back toward shore and them twitching and working it back, upstream to yourself can be deadly.  The fish don’t come often but when they do, they are hefty and much larger. Spring run off edge fly fishing (whew, what a mouthful) can be the most startling revelation to any fly fisherman who has never done it before. The worse the river looks, the better and more concentrated are the trout packed along the edge. So think about this coming spring run off.  Don’t miss this time of great opportunity as a fly fisherman.  It is the best time to get a crack at those 10 pound plus brown trout and larger bows. Mr.G. — http://www.gink.com

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Question:

[surgeon's knot instructions snipped] I was curious about the way most people tie knots.  I use my tongue in almost every knot I tie. Hey now! That’s gotta make you popular with the ladies!

Really! Can you tie an overhand not in the stem of a cherry with using your hands? — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

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I use my tongue in

almost every knot I tie.  < Is that a sexual reference?  I think that’s a sexual reference.  <g

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I *think* this one’s for you, Mu (and rw probably meant to say "not" using your hands). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was curious about the way most people tie knots.  I use my tongue in almost every knot I tie. Really! Can you tie an overhand not in the stem of a cherry with using your hands?

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I see we are complete agreement. <g  Nothing like confusing the rookies, eh?

I’m not exactly a rookie, since I’ve been flyfishing on and off (mostly off) for over 40 years, going back to the days when fiberglass rods were the latest thing and line weights were letter-coded . I’ve just never used the surgeon’s knot much. I have to admit, though, that I’ve caught more trout in the past four months than in the previous 40 years. Thanks for the tips. I’m starting to think my tippet material is too old. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

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RW: (snip) <<Thanks for the tips. I’m starting to think my tippet material is too old. Awwwww, you stole my thunder, RW.  Seriously, if a surgeon’s knot (double,triple) is tied correctly (and it should be since you are an experienced FFer), it shouldn’t fail.  Unless, of course, the tippet material has gone bad. Dave LaCourse

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see we are complete agreement. <g  Nothing like confusing the rookies, eh? I’m not exactly a rookie, since I’ve been flyfishing on and off (mostly off) for over 40 years, going back to the days when fiberglass rods were the latest thing and line weights were letter-coded . I’ve just never used the surgeon’s knot much. I have to admit, though, that I’ve caught more trout in the past four months than in the previous 40 years. Thanks for the tips. I’m starting to think my tippet material is too old. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

I wasn’t specifically thinking about you since we’ve seen you around the group for quite a while.  I read Dave’s post a minute after hitting the send button and it just made me laugh how we (meaning all of us) give contradictory responses to basic questions.  It must be as confusing as hell for real rookies when they read this stuff.   Peter

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RW: (snip) <<Thanks for the tips. I’m starting to think my tippet material is too old. Awwwww, you stole my thunder, RW.  Seriously, if a surgeon’s knot (double,triple) is tied correctly (and it should be since you are an experienced FFer), it shouldn’t fail.  Unless, of course, the tippet material has gone bad. Dave LaCourse

I refrained from rude "old tippet" jokes.  Too easy. There’s an easy test for bad knot vs.bad tippet.  Hold the knotted sections in an inverted ‘U’ with the knot at the top of the ‘U’ and work the mono back and worth.  If the knot is OK, the shape of the ‘U’ will be maintained.  If the tippet has been damaged, it’ll hinge at the knot.  You may not even be able to form the ‘U’ as it may simply fold over at the weak point on the tippet side of the knot. Peter

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Peter Charles: <<There’s an easy test for bad knot vs.bad tippet.  Hold the knotted sections in an inverted ‘U’ with the knot at the top of the ‘U’ and work the mono back and worth.  If the knot is OK, the shape of the ‘U’ will be maintained.  If the tippet has been damaged, it’ll hinge at the knot.  You may not even be able to form the ‘U’ as it may simply fold over at the weak point on the tippet side of the knot. You are a never-ending font of information, Charles! Did you get my directions? Dave LaCourse

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Did you get my directions? Dave LaCourse

Yes thanks.  Sounds straightforward – until I get lost. Peter

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Just for clarification. Are you tying the two overhand knots separately or together? If you tie the overhand then tighten then tie the secound overhand knot over the first its much weaker and will pull through easier. You can go to three overhand knots. A little bulkier but will lock down the tippet. Also some tippet material is very slick. Changing brands might save some grief. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the past I’ve always used a blood knot to tie tippet to leader. Lately I’ve been using a surgeon’s knot because it’s definitely easier, if not prettier. My problem is that the damn things keep breaking on me. I’ve heard this is a very strong knot. I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Just for clarification. Are you tying the two overhand knots separately or together?

I’m tying them both together. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

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I’m tying them both together.

I suppose everyone loves to do things their own way.  But the beauty of the surgeon’s knot is #1 it’s really strong, and #2 you can tie it even in the wind with a hangover (no tools required). After years of tying the knot, I’ve worked out a method I find foolproof and very fast (I’m right handed, you might reverse directions if you’re not). 1) overlap the leader and tippet a couple of inches, and fold back the two strands to create a vertical, double overhand loop, with the tag ends crossing behind and to the right.  Hold the loop closed between the left thumb and index finger. 2)  You now have two tag ends trailing out the right side:  A short one from the leader, and a long one from the tippet. 3) Thread the short tag end through the loop, making sure you thread it through from the front. Pull it just tight enough to get rid of any slack, but do not tighten the loop. 4) Now grab the tippet tag end about an inch from the end, and slip it through the loop TWICE, each time pulling in the slack and feeding it from the front. 5) Thread the short tag through the loop, from the front, a second time, and eliminate the slack. 6)Now grab all four ends (two on each side in one hand), wet the loop with saliva, and pull tight, slowly.  Trim. This gives you a double surgeon’s knot.  Alternate feeding the short and long tag ends through the loop a third time to tie a triple. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Michael Goldstein: < <I suppose everyone loves to do things their own way.  But the beauty of the surgeon’s knot is #1 it’s really strong, and #2 you can tie it even in the wind with a hangover (no tools required). (directions snipped for brevity) I used to tie it in a similar fashion, Michael, until I saw a tool demonstrated at a fly show.  I bought the tool and use it exclusively for surgeon’s and clinch knots.  The beauty of the tool is that you do not have to fumble with tag ends or any ends which can be difficult in cold weather, especially if your hands aren’t very nimble to begin with.  I amazed a couple of professional guides recently with the speed at which I can tie both knots.  Different strokes I guess….. Dave LaCourse

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I used to tie it in a similar fashion, Michael, until I saw a tool demonstrated at a fly show.  <snip

Dave, I hate being dependent on a tool, since sooner or later they have a way of disappearing.  I use a nail knot tool, for example, and found myself stymied when it disappeared out of my pack. With the surgeon’s knot, when it gets cold, I just make the loop larger.  You waste more tippet and leader, but I’ve never not been able to tie it, and I fish year round (though NJ winters have been pretty mild). But if the tool works for you, mazel tov. Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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[surgeon's knot instructions snipped] I was curious about the way most people tie knots.  I use my tongue in almost every knot I tie.   Mu Young Lee           Ann Arbor, MI  USA

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[surgeon's knot instructions snipped] I was curious about the way most people tie knots.  I use my tongue in almost every knot I tie.  

Hey now! That’s gotta make you popular with the ladies! /daytripper (Hardcore "alphabet" practitioner ;^)

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In the past I’ve always used a blood knot to tie tippet to leader. Lately I’ve been using a surgeon’s knot because it’s definitely easier, if not prettier. My problem is that the damn things keep breaking on me. I’ve heard this is a very strong knot. I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot.

Spit on it, and tighten everybody at the same time slooooooowly. Works for me. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken Fortenberry: I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot.

Spit on it, and tighten everybody at the same time slooooooowly. Works for me. Have you tried tying it with a tool?  You can use your forceps. Align the two pieces (leader and tippet) and make a "U" of them, with the right side of the U being the end of the tippet. Hold the U in your left hand between thumb and index finger acroos the top of the U.  Insert the forceps and twist twice (or three times for a triple surgeons knot). Then grab the tag end of the leader and the long end of the tippet (the right side of the U) and draw them through.  Grab the leader and long tippet end and pull to tighten.  Then do the same with the tag ends.  I usually spit on the knot (or stick it in the water) for lubrication.  I have never had this knot fail. Once you practice it, you can tie it, tighten it, clip it and be ready to tie on a fly in 30 seconds. Dave LaCourse

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I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot.

Pulling the non-tag ends is the worst thing to do.  As the knot tightens, the tippet is pulled through the knot and is heated and crushed by the heavier leader.  The failure point ends up a millimetre or so below the knot where the tippet has been thinned the most.  As Ken has said, pull all simultaneously and keep the knot wet. Sometimes it’s hard to get a tight knot.  In that case take the tippet tag end and pull it down against the knot to snug things up. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ken Fortenberry: I’m sure I’m tying it right — just two overhand knots with the tag ends. What’s going on? Is there a trick to tightening it? I’m tightening the non-tag ends first and then the tag ends, and then trimming the knot. Spit on it, and tighten everybody at the same time slooooooowly. Works for me. Have you tried tying it with a tool?  You can use your forceps. Align the two pieces (leader and tippet) and make a "U" of them, with the right side of the U being the end of the tippet. Hold the U in your left hand between thumb and index finger acroos the top of the U.  Insert the forceps and twist twice (or three times for a triple surgeons knot). Then grab the tag end of the leader and the long end of the tippet (the right side of the U) and draw them through.  Grab the leader and long tippet end and pull to tighten.  Then do the same with the tag ends.  I usually spit on the knot (or stick it in the water) for lubrication.  I have never had this knot fail. Once you practice it, you can tie it, tighten it, clip it and be ready to tie on a fly in 30 seconds. Dave LaCourse

Dave I see we are complete agreement. <g  Nothing like confusing the rookies, eh? Peter

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Spit on it, and tighten everybody at

the same time slooooooowly.< Works for me.

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Question:

father/son stuff snipped, unfortunately I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek

story of average size Spring Creek brown trout snipped (just kidding folks) Peter:  good guy and guide (I know him),  and a tribute to the stream as well. Lot’s of us are working to keep it that way. Mark Faulkner (counting the days till the end of March……)

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My son Scott, was an avid spin fisherman but he didn’t seem really enthusiastic about taking to the fly.  His biggest problem was lack of success.  Unwittingly, I had compounded matters.  When we went fishing on a really tough bit of water, from his perspective, I seemed to be able to sniff out and take fish at will while he came up empty handed. Later on, I decided that a day in PA would be in order.  I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek Donny met us promptly at the Bush Hotel and after the usually introductions, we headed off for the creek.  Donny had promised to take us to some spots that usually did not attract  many other fishermen.  But when we arrived at a part of the creek lined with cottages, I had my doubts.  After suiting up and walking over to the stream bank, I could see fish rising steadily and the doubts faded. Trust the guide, trust the guide. I started off with a sulpher dry while Donny had Scott nymph a deeper run.  Gradually, his technique started to improve and he began to catch fish.  With each fish, his confidence kept rising.  Later we moved further up stream and Donny put Scott onto a 17" brown which he landed and a much bigger one that broke him off.  A flyfisherman was born. Thanks Donny Peter

Response:

question, What was your best day fishing?   I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees.

I’m no gear bigot, a good day fishing is a good day fishing, regardless of what type of rod you are using. Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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Boy this is a tough one to answer.  I have had so many wonderful days that have envoked so many great feelings. From a technical standpoint, it would have to be the day that my casting and ability to read the water all came together at once and I was able to put the fly 2 inches from the log along the bank of my favorite river on the first cast.  The wild bow came right out and nailed in textbook fashion. Big fish day would have to be the 20 pound rainbow taken up in British Columbia last summer. All in all though, I would have say that the days spent out with my 5 year old son fishing in our tiny 7 foot boat are the best.  He screams with joy when he gets a fish on his fly rod.  Good stuff to remember and I hope to spend many more years pursing trout with him.

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  

I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees. Last summer, when I took my spinning rig to go after trout. Everybody said that my bass rig would never catch trout. Yeah, right. I like to do things just because they’re supposed to be impossible. Anyway, the weather was cloudy and dripping on and off. Not sunny enough to go out and shoot gophers, but I took my .22 with me just the same and almost dropped it in the river. I sat on the bank, popped open a beer, and tied on a 3" crankbait. One beer, a few casts, nothing. I got up, went to a bend in the river, and threw a few more casts. Hooked something. Couldn’t see what it was but it fought pretty good-about like a good-sized smallmouth or spot. I brought it in-it turned out to be my first ever rainbow. I didn’t measure it, but it looked to be about 16" standard length (snout to the base of the caudal fin). Released it. Finished my beer. Opened another one. Threw another few casts into that same slackwater at the bend. Nothing. I got up and moved upstream a little more. Started casting downstream, and caught another bow behind a huge rock. Brought it almost all the way in. Picked it up to try and unhook it and get a picture before I released it, but it broke off and ran off with one of my favorite crankbaits. Oh, well, I guess that’s the breaks of the game. Beautiful scenery and fishing with a cousin that I don’t see all that often… I think that qualifies as a pretty durn good day. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNruUi5diUzdLFqlpAQE4mwf/RrzaBPK/OPVM3Ky16dsN0ybat4VqtXjy 5RyoGBhB8+nJVxHVFgniCTqbmaKpbyGFXF80cZdhnqCV9kwP0eW7VNZvlINvuijd Myq2EHR7Phzw+9PkRFlT/E8k3OdmjAPWDZkyGMmvQcEShiKFZNCSYf6RWNFEB/m6 ud3M78qAFlY+AquSBvewbIsRzCLaxxgPf8V+INMVPFa6WtIICkbNhHt2aefq+TDm gLLyWyeDx4aV3zNoLXNnNzx6XlmFECpe3GAdQ0EXh2hJIgxkHV4xqL6XO7b9Uk7J zIM49Y2hsjkr+PAH/s0blCNncOPWB0pkoPWQPLfk4d5e48bxz+3Tcg== =Upmc —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

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Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray.

 No, that’s a story for another day.  (-: My best day?

[Wonderful story about introducing grandkids to fly-fishing snipped] It always amazes me the diversity this group has (probably the source of half our troubles).  Your grandkids are only about 10 years younger than I am.  I only hope to someday have what you have.  Savor it. Later,       – Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water.

 <Ken’s story snipped but not unappreciated I don’t want to answer your question Ken.  I love to fish and cherish every opportunity on the water.  You might ask Michael Jordan what his highest scoring game was – that question has an answer.  Let me ask you this, what was the day that you felt you were the best possible man/lover/friend/human being in your relationship with your aforementioned   girlfriend?  Would you want to live your life or conduct your relationship in such a way so that an answer to such a question could exist?  I wouldn’t, nor would I want to fish like that either.  Not trying to pretend to be some sort of mystic, or wierdo or take on the aura of wisdom of some old guy looking back on his life with tinted lenses (I believe I am the same age as you in fact).  Just how I feel about fishin’ that’s all. Later dude, Mu Young Lee         ann arbor, mi, usa

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Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray. My best day?  I’ve had a few, but the most memorable occurred last July in Labrador.   For the past two years I have been coaching my two grandsons. They are becoming good fly fishermen and I believe the bug may stick with the oldest, Jeff.  I took Jeff with me to Labrador. His eyes were bulging when the bush pilot told him to sit in the front seat of the Beaver on our flight to the river.  When we landed, his eyes got even bigger at the sight of such virgin, untouched country.  We quickly set up our rods, and we were off with a guide in a 40 hp Honda 4 stroke.  He brought us up- river to a spot I had fished the year before.  BIG brookies were rising about 30 feet from the boat, very close to shore.  I let Jeff have the first go.  The guide, Peter, directed Jeff where to cast, and Jeff did it perfectly.  His cast was just above the rising fish and exactly in the feeding lane.  I said "Now" to myself, and a big brookie came up and snatched Jeff’s Goddard Caddis.  He set the hook and away we go!  What a trip.  Jeff performed flawlessly listening to his grandpa but paying more attention to what Peter was saying. After about a five minute fight, Peter picked up the fish with his bare hand (no net),  took the hook out and released the 6 pound brookie.  I just sat there with tears in my eyes knowing that I had passed on to my grandson a very special moment. There were more fish that day and during the week, but Jeff still talks about that first fish and how he did it.  Jeff is only 15. This year, his brother Brian, 14, will go with me to Labrador. I hope we get Peter right off the plane! Dave "Pop Pop" LaCourse PS:  Oh yeah, almost forgot.  They have a sister, Danielle who is 9. I taught her to shoot this past fall and she too wants to fly fish.  It can’t get any better than this!

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Great story Ken. I wish I had a tale to tell about flyfishing with my wife. Years ago I built her a nice 8′ x 5 wt. graphite. Taught her to cast ( she wasn’t bad). But she didn’t take to it. Oh well my loss. As far as my best fishing day…there all best. Joel Axelrad

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With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water. I’ll start… My best day of fishing was probably late last fall.  My girlfriend and I were heading to the coast to visit her mother (no, that’s not the good part).  It was one of those beautiful fall days when the leaves are in the middle of changing colors, but it’s sunny and warm enough to not need a jacket.  We were driving along the highway through the coast mountains and she suggests that the water looks perfect for fishing and that we can be a little late (god I love her).  The water was relatively low and crystal clear, perfect dry-fly water. We pulled off the road and took the rods out of the trunk.  My trusty handmade 5 weight and "her" slow action 4 weight (it’s actully mine, but I’ve long since lost it).  We found a nice little stretch with a long slow riffle.  I gave her first choice on where to start, she chose the head of the rapids.  First cast, WHAM, a 12" cutt hits my stimulator.  I bring it to hand and smile because she’s glaring at me since she doesn’t even have her fly tied on yet. [For future reference, do not repeat these actions if you wish SO's to fish with you again] I think better about returning fishing and talk a bit waiting for her to finish.  She finally finished and we returned to fishing.  A couple more casts and I’ve got another cutt.  She’s starting to look a little down.  I tell her that they are feeding along the opposite bank just outside the faster moving water.  She suggests that maybe she’d rather fish at the tail end of the rapids instead, to which I happily agree.  Some time passes with no action when I get another cutt.  Now I know I’m in trouble, so I quickly release the fish, take apart my rod and head over to her.  She, thinking that I’m wanting to leave, starts to take apart her rod. I tell her, no, I’m done fishing, you just keep right ahead.  We talked about everything and nothing much at all, I made little suggestions on how she might improve her drift, but mostly we just enjoyed the time.  She forgot all about "trying" to catch a fish, and just fished.  Trying to make the fly drop softly onto the water, trying not to introduce drag, and that’s when it happened. A silver flash and then the sound of her reel’s drag.  It was beautiful (not the fish) and I wish to this day that I had had a camera.  After a bit of a fight, she brought in a NICE 15-16" cutt.  Had we not been heading to her mother’s we would most certainly have brought him home for supper.  Oh yeah, we arrived at her mother’s house dirty and sweaty, smelling like fish and three hours late!!! All in all, probably the best day fishing I’ve ever had.  :-)      - Ken

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Question:

I’m a newbie to this NG so please forgive me if this question has been asked before but here goes.  I live in Southern California right next to the beach and regularly enjoy surf fishing and would like to try fly fishing in the surf.  My father used to do it a LONG time ago before fly fishing became hi-tech.  He said that he got some lead-core trolling line and put it on a fly real and used a 6 WT rod.  Evidently there were no 9 or 10 WT rods back then so he really tore up his shoulder trying to shoot the lead-core which was necessary to keep the line from being tossed around by the waves. Anyway, I know that surf fishing is much more common nowadays and better equipment is available so my question is this, what equipment is needed?  What weight rod, line, etc?  Is the lead-core necessary? Can anybody recommend any good books or web sites?  Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. DM

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< SNIP Try this URL, some great info on surf fly fishing there. Including a very good introduction. www.marco-island-florida-com Hope this helps ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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The authors name escapes me but there is a great book out there (Jim Shewey?? maybe) called Trout & Beyond that chronicles in part his surfperch fishing. Maybe that will help.  Try amazon.com for it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a newbie to this NG so please forgive me if this question has been asked before but here goes.  I live in Southern California right next to the beach and regularly enjoy surf fishing and would like to try fly fishing in the surf.  My father used to do it a LONG time ago before fly fishing became hi-tech.  He said that he got some lead-core trolling line and put it on a fly real and used a 6 WT rod.  Evidently there were no 9 or 10 WT rods back then so he really tore up his shoulder trying to shoot the lead-core which was necessary to keep the line from being tossed around by the waves. Anyway, I know that surf fishing is much more common nowadays and better equipment is available so my question is this, what equipment is needed?  What weight rod, line, etc?  Is the lead-core necessary? Can anybody recommend any good books or web sites?  Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. DM

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I was watching a PBS station that was showing a film about Nantucket lighthouses on the East Coast last night.  In one shot they showed a picture of several fly fishermen lined up along the beach surf fishing. Does any one know what type of fish they were fishing for? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < SNIP Try this URL, some great info on surf fly fishing there. Including a very good introduction. www.marco-island-florida-com Hope this helps ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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They were probably fishing for striped bass, Ernie. Homey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a PBS station that was showing a film about Nantucket lighthouses on the East Coast last night.  In one shot they showed a picture of several fly fishermen lined up along the beach surf fishing. Does any one know what type of fish they were fishing for? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

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I was watching a PBS station that was showing a film about Nantucket lighthouses on the East Coast last night.  In one shot they showed a picture of several fly fishermen lined up along the beach surf fishing. Does any one know what type of fish they were fishing for? — Ernie Harrison

Probably stripers and bluefish.   (and in the fall, Bonito and False Albacore)   The coasts of NY, MA, CN, and ME are famous for the great striper fishing.  Plenty of easy access, plenty of willing fish. If you haven’t tried it, you should!   I live inland, but started making a two-week trip to the coast (Cape Cod) every year after my first trip. Imagine a 25lb. saltwater brute on an eight or nine weight.   Yee ha! Bob Scott

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His and Her Fly shop in Newport specialize in fly fishing the surf. There are many Fly Fishimg clubs in Southern Ca. that can help. Check with Bob Marriot’s Fly Fishing Store in Fullerton. Their fall show , the week end before thanksgiving is usually loaded with world class saltwater flyfishermen such as Nick Curricone, Dan Blanton, Lefty Kreh,Bob Popovics and Bob Clouser. If they can’t help no one can.

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Probably Stripped Bass.

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Probably Stripers or possibly Bluefish Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a PBS station that was showing a film about Nantucket lighthouses on the East Coast last night.  In one shot they showed a picture of several fly fishermen lined up along the beach surf fishing. Does any one know what type of fish they were fishing for?

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Question:

<< An Orvis bobber. Peter

Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

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Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however.

I don’t think they make Orvis Jeeps anymore, but one of their catalogs had some D90’s in it so I should be in good shape<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << An Orvis bobber. Peter Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

—

Question:

It is starting folks….water conditions are excellent and breaking into the low 40’s.  Hold on to your rods.  Six fish landed yesterday by folks all between 2 and 4 lbs. Good Luck. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

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 It is starting folks….water conditions are excellent and breaking into the low 40’s.  Hold on to your rods.  Six fish landed yesterday by folks all between 2 and 4 lbs. Good Luck. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings

Wow: They start young in Vermont.  I already weighed over 8 lbs when I was born. (sorry, couldn’t resist.  I’m just jealous: most of our rivers are still frozen, and we don’t have rainbows here in New Brunswick). Brent

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Question:

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http://www.execpc.com./~glsfc/fish-wisc.

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there… My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there.

Martin:         Let me do a little thinking and map looking and I’ll get back to you. I’m not in that area but know of it and might be able to help. A couple of nice streams suggest themselves right off but I’d rather try to look first and advise later rather than mucking things up the other way around.         You know one of the problems with doing what you are thinking of doing can be best realized by imagining a guy coming to your area and trying to have a good time of it without a scintilla of the hard-won experience you’ve got as to where to go, when, using what equipment, flies, etc., etc. I.e., it might make sense to think about getting a guide if you can swing the dough? Even if only for a 1/2 day (if they go along with same); sometimes they can turn you on to just enough that you can take it from there.         But I’ll get back to you with what I can dig up about the area you’ll be visiting in any case. Tom Burczyk The workings of great institutions is mainly the result of a vast mass of routine, petty malice, self-interest, carelessness, and sheer mistake. Only a residual fraction is thought." Santayana

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Try this site: — http://www.execpc.com/~glsfc/fish_wi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there. Thanks for the suggestion.

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin — Martin Jensen

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions?

Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

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Question:

Last month someone on this newsgroup posted an inquiry regarding where to find appropriately sized waders for children. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the name/address of the poster. I believe I referred him/her to LL Bean, Cabela, or Damsel Fly. Yesterday I received a catalog from "The Global Flyfisher" in Northbrook, Illinois which lists "Fly Tech Youth Waders" which sound like exactly what this person was looking for. The listing in the catalog: "Finally, Fly Tech brings us an affordable neoprene youth wader! These youth waders have everything adult waders have. Made of 3.5mm Neoprene with a high back and adjustable suspenders. They have a large handwarmer pocket, padded knee pads, Hypalon soles, 3-D rings for accessories. Gravel guards and repair kit included. Brown." Comes in Small, Medium, and Large (they include a sizing chart). Price= $65.00 Phone: 800-457-7026 I have no ties to this company and have not seen the waders myself except in a picture, but I thought if the person was still out there looking for waders for their kid this might be the ticket.

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I’d like to hear a serious discussion of peripheral gear…waders and boots.  Let me start by telling those what I have found out then pose some questions.  Stocking foot waders seem to be more versatile than booted waders i.e. your stocking foots can go into your float tube fins for example and you have your choice of boots, felt sole for mossy bottom cleats for whatever. Neoprenes seem to have no use.  As someone who travels I need all the lightness and space I can get.  Even in the coldest Western stream I am toasty warm in plastic redball waders and sweet pants for insulation.  I use my waders protective socks made of neoprene that are designed to prevent chafing of the lightweight waders and keep gravel out with a cuff INSIDE my waders over my socks.  This keeps my feet warm and prevents me from feeling that bunched up sock and wader feeling that we all hate after walking around with all this gear on.  This negates the protection of the wader but really feels comfortable all day long.  If you have any other tips to share please post them.  Using this system of layering under thin waders I have put my neoprenes away forever.   My questions are do the Gortex fabrics that allow the wader to breath keep you drier inside on a hot day?  Do they really work as advertised?  My biggest problem is that sweaty clammy feeling from wearing a plastic bag all day.  Second, for those of you who have to hike in and pass through water to fish what do you do?  Feltsole boots are crappy hiking boots.  I’m thinking of forgetting the feltsoles and   trying hiking boots in my waders.   Anyone do this?  

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what do you do?  Feltsole boots are crappy hiking boots.  I’m thinking of forgetting the feltsoles and   trying hiking boots in my waders.   Anyone do this?

Hiking boots are crappy wading boots. If you step on a smooth, wet rock with rubber soled boots you might as well be wearing roller skates. Tight Lines Jay Whitworth

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Griz, Regarding you idea about using hiking boots with your waders, while I haven’t done that yet, I plan to. For years I used nothing but a three-ply (canvas, rubber,canvas) pair of hodgman’s hippers. I love them because they’re the toughest thing you can get for the money. However, i find as I stray farther from my home waters that I need chest waders, and I happened upon a going out of business sale and got a pair of neo. for $50. However, because the boots are so expensive and I’m so cheap, I thought about just going to a discount store and buying some fake leather hiking boots. Seems logical. I’ll tell you how they work when I get back from a trip to the west branch of the delaware in New York.  I’m looking forward to a heavy hendrikson hatch. grant

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Griz, Regarding you idea about using hiking boots with your waders, while I haven’t done that yet, I plan to. For years I used nothing but a three-ply (canvas, rubber,canvas) pair of hodgman’s hippers. I love them because they’re the toughest thing you can get for the money. However, i find as I stray farther from my home waters that I need chest waders, and I happened upon a going out of business sale and got a pair of neo. for $50. However, because the boots are so expensive and I’m so cheap, I thought about just going to a discount store and buying some fake leather hiking boots. Seems logical. I’ll tell you how they work when I get back from a trip to the west branch of the delaware in New York.  I’m looking forward to a heavy hendrikson hatch. grant

Hi Grant, For years I used a pair of jungle boots purchased at a surplus store. All I had to do was glue indoor/outdoor carpet to the soles. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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