Question:

I fished with a ROFF lurker Sunday, a really good fisherman and tier, and we got rain, snow, and wind.  Both of us caught a few good fish and we enjoyed watching the guides and their sports in the Texas hole.  Two guys in one boat had a foul hooked double.  First time we’d ever seen that one.

I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

Response:

I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

  Man, that’s disgusting.  You need to brush up on your style:)   I caught a fish last year on two nymphs, one fly in each corner of his MOUTH. That’s the way we westerners do things. With a little class.  I’ll bet you tie Parachute Adams’ on treble hooks, too. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

Wow.  I’ve never seen that one before either! bruce h

Response:

I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??   Man, that’s disgusting.  You need to brush up on your style:)   I caught a fish last year on two nymphs, one fly in each corner of his MOUTH. That’s the way we westerners do things. With a little class.  I’ll bet you tie Parachute Adams’ on treble hooks, too.

Yeah, but I’ve noticed that if I leave off the tail, body, wings and even hackle from my treble Adams it snags ‘em just as well.  Frankly, I don’t think the fish can tell the difference…..

Response:

I’m planning on having a really small group at the San Juan December 7-10. You are invited if you are reading this.  Join the Western clique.  We’re really not all that picky 2002 has been a pretty slow year for me, fishing wise, although I’ve had the good fortune to take some good trips and I have caught lots of good fish. Just not as many as expected in many cases.  Fishing, like many other pursuits, can sometimes be improved by managing one’s expectations. Even the San Juan, a veritable aquarium, has been slower than expected on the days I managed to get up there this year.  And while I was in Idaho and Montana, struggling to catch fish and enjoying everyone’s company, the San Juan was rocking, with the fish eating anything, apparently.  Did I mention that Indian Joe is a HOOT? I vowed to make the time to fish the Juan for a weekend or more and really walk around and concentrate on locating concentrations of fish for the December trip.  Of course it’s not too tough in that river but the fish do move around as the conditions change.  And I’ve never even seen the river as low as it’s flowing now as a result of our drought – 350 cfs.  Last weekend I fished Friday afternoon and all weekend. At the Western Clave, Jeff C mentioned to me that he had hoped for visible hatches and working fish and a puzzle to solve.  We really didn’t get it. We were casting to likely water and mostly blind, not casting to visible fish (except the bridges!) or rise forms.  At the San Juan, you can cast to working fish and throw everything in your box at them and not hook anything but the Tamarisk behind you for two hours.  Well, unless your initials are WL that is.  And other times, the fish are visibly feeding, you can identify pretty closely what they’re eating, and lo and behold, a few of them eat your presentations of imitations.  As somebody once said and I’ve repeated often, some days are electric. Friday afternoon was Electric.  Saturday was raining, cold and mostly windy and the fish still ate a good presentation.  I looked up and down the river and saw the other fly fishers waiting for a chance to get a drift or sitting on the river bank waiting it out.  Sunday dawn I was walking across the upper flats, intent on checking out an apparently trapped goose that I had spotted from my truck.  As I got closer and it got a little brighter outside, I could tell it wasn’t a goose.  The shotgun blasts kicked my brain into gear.  Decoy, hunters.  Wow.  I’ve seen a lot of shotgun shells there but I’ve never had a couple of camo guys stand up on the island in front of me and start blasting at some distant ducks.  Even more amazing was the fact that they weren’t bothered by the other twenty or so guys that arrived over the next couple of hours. The baetis hatch Sunday afternoon was really something to behold.  We were at the right place at the right time.  I think there was a debate here some time ago about whether or not cloudy conditions bring out the baetis.  At the San Juan it seems obvious.  I was extremely happy to be there. I fished with a ROFF lurker Sunday, a really good fisherman and tier, and we got rain, snow, and wind.  Both of us caught a few good fish and we enjoyed watching the guides and their sports in the Texas hole.  Two guys in one boat had a foul hooked double.  First time we’d ever seen that one. bruce h

Response:

Question:

All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection.

  Thanks for the info.  Let us know the date of next year’s event. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

  Oh, no.  They moved Laramie?  I really liked the old location:)   Boy, that sounds like a good time.  If I wasn’t all traveled out, I’d go. Also, the ice is going off.  Time to do some local fishing, finally. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

i think you mean west of cheyenne….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

Response:

  Oh, no.  They moved Laramie?  I really liked the old location:)   Boy, that sounds like a good time.

    Drag your sorry ass down; me and Willi are going.

Response:

    Drag your sorry ass down; me and Willi are going.

  Well, that’s just not fair.  The two guys I know who least need any education in the fly fishing field get to go and the guy who could really benefit has a severe case of jet lag and there’s no way I could have made it to Laramie.   Man, I’m beat.  On March 6th & 7th, I was on the Bighorn.  On the 8th, I drove home to Buffalo, changed gear and drove to Denver so I could be airborne to Orlando on Sat. am.  I went with my retired pilot friends to the EAA fly in at Lakeland.  I got to fly first class both ways and got to drink some first class gin & tonics.  (I’m back on the wagon, now.)  I went from 10 degrees on the ‘horn to 85 degrees with big time humidity in Fla.  How the heck to folks live down there?   The fishing on the Bighorn was really slow.  Everyone caught some fish on Wed. when we floated from mile 3 to Bighorn.  No surface action and the fly rod guides didn’t stay thawed out to about 2:00 pm.  We stayed at Cottonwood and noticed the place was packed.  We decided to float the lower river, Bighorn to Mallard, in the hopes there wouldn’t be a crowd.  That panned out.  But, there were no fish caught by the 5 in our group.  We’d never fished that stretch so it was interesting to see some new country.  There was a lot of "fishy" looking water and the water was pretty clear.  There are some pretty good fishermen in our group so I was very surprised that there were no fish caught.  I guess the buys did pretty good on Friday when they fished from afterbay to mile 3 but the river was very crowded.   Has anyone heard of any talk about a pretty heavy fish kill on the ‘horn?  A couple of months ago, we saw a large number of dead fish on the bottom.  There’s been some talk of last years low flows impacting the fish population.   The stream in town is ice free and I’m going out this afternoon to see if any local lakes have opened up.  Life is good:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

~^beancounter~^ added: i think you mean west of cheyenne…..

the wind can blow pretty hard up here…. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).

  So tell us about the seminar. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

What is the TITLE of this tape and who is selling it I wonder? Does anyone know? George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb. This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb. What is the TITLE of this tape and who is selling it I wonder? Does anyone know?

It’s something of his own that Jack had, and as much as he’d like to incorporate it into a complete video, one of the key people involved in making it is hard to locate. Until he can get this person’s permission to borrow the footage for a new video (on streamer fishing), there won’t be one. I wouldn’t say never, but I would say to be patient and watch for it. Until then, if you’re at any sports show where Jack is doing a seminar on streamer fishing, go to it and you’ll probably see the footage. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies), we arrived at the UW campus just as some famous people were breaking for lunch. The afternoon was spent at a symposium where more famous people talked about progressive water right laws like we’ll NEVER see in Colorado, but before you knew it, it was about beer-thirty, so Willi and I headed downtown and killed a little time before the banquet. The banquet was very nice, the food was excellent and Rusty’s chapter even threw in a host bar (my chapter would be in the red if they ever did anything as foolhardy), I spent an hour juggling free booze while trying not to look too interested in the silent auction painting I was determined to take home. After dinner Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson gave a very touching slide show, which dedicated the Gary Lafontaine library collection. I won a bunch of cool junk I have no use for at the raffle, so I’ll probably send some of it with Willi to the Penn’s Clave. Enjoyed a great Fuente on the drive home.

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies)

That’s Charlie’s joke, not mine! Willi

Response:

    So tell us about the seminar.     I picked Willi up at the Rancho de Peros at about eleven and we headed north, soothed by the soundtrack to "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (Willi said he had to get used to that kind of music because he’s soon going to be sharing living accommodations with a bunch of banjo pickin’ hillbillies),

jeff can’t play da ‘jo worth sheet. only din tom picks iz heez nose. no worry willi, afta a few swigs of the mountain brew, ya ain’t gonna hear the music…. gusto..

Response:

Clave. Enjoyed a great Fuente on the drive home.

Just took delivery from London of a dozen Opus X’s, and a box of Romeo and Julietta’s. Came right through customs marked "cigars". Now if I just had a damn trip to a stream to smoke a few.

Response:

Just took delivery from London of a dozen Opus X’s, and a box of Romeo and Julietta’s. Came right through customs marked "cigars". Now if I just had a damn trip to a stream to smoke a few.

  I’ll bet Charlie and I could fix you up with more streams than you could imagine.  That is, of course, as long as you bring along your latest shipment:) What about it Charlie?  Wanna split some X’s and R&J’s? Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  I’ll bet Charlie and I could fix you up with more streams than you could imagine.  That is, of course, as long as you bring along your latest shipment:)

Perhaps you might better explain "fix you up". Where I come from it means you are either about to have a blind date with the ugliest girl in the county or you had better not bend over without looking back first. But ifin I can get out of a fundraising committment I have this weekend by just writing a check instead, then some of them ceegars should be parked on the South Platte this weekend. I think I might make the Penns thingie for a couple of days at least and I need a little practice, if only I can make sure I can get the fly onto the water. Wayne

Response:

Perhaps you might better explain "fix you up". Where I come from it means you are either about to have a blind date with the ugliest girl in the county or you had better not bend over without looking back first.

  She wouldn’t be that ugly.  Trust us. But ifin I can get out of a fundraising committment I have this weekend by just writing a check instead, then some of them ceegars should be parked on the South Platte this weekend. I think I might make the Penns thingie for a couple of days at least and I need a little practice, if only I can make sure I can get the fly onto the water.

  Ummm.  South Platte is a long way for me to go to fish or smoke a cigar.  I guess I’ll just have to stay home and smoke one or two of my maduro Double Chateau Fuente’s:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop

Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

That streamer footage is awesome. Saw it in Wichita in Feb.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne).   So tell us about the seminar. Snoop Friday was a combination of casting demos, tying demos, and presentations on fishing tactics. All of the tying demos took place in the student union lobby; Jack Dennis would tie for an hour, then Mike Lawson for another hour and so on. While one was in the lobby tying flies, the other would either be outside casting or else upstairs giving a fishing seminar. Saturday morning was more of the same. The most memorable parts for me were Jack’s seminar on streamer fishing (consisting largely of video footage of trout eating mice, frogs, and baitfish. gotta get a copy of that.), and getting enough pointers from Lawson on tying the no-hackle to actually start tying them myself. The Colorado Delegation arrived too late for the streamer video, but just in time for the panel discussion on instream flows. Not as entertaining as watching trout eat live mice, but still very worthwhile. The Saturday night banquet was very nice. Good food, good company, and lots of raffle loot. Jack and Mike hosted an excellent presentation on fly fishing literature to dedicate the establishment of the Gary LaFontaine Book Collection at UW’s Centennial Museum. This collection will complement the Toppan Collection, which has been a feature of every symposium we’ve held, and one of Gary LaFontaine’s favorite attractions during his visits here. The new collection is off to a good start, with donations from Jack Dennis, Stan Bradshaw, John Gierach, and many others. Finally, it was time to go home, so we all did. The next morning the organizers had planned (as usual) to go on a float trip to celebrate, but weather intervened and Sunday mornings festivities consisted of an early morning drive down a long narrow road, standing around in a parking lot talking about how windy it was today and where we planned to fish later in the season, followed by a midday trip back home on that same road, only with stronger crosswinds. All in all, a nice weekend; only 12 months until the next one. Jack will be here, as always, probably Randall Kauffman too, and a large number of flyfishing books from Australia for the collection. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

This Friday and Saturday, Jack Dennis and Mike Lawson will be at the University of Wyoming (in Laramie, about 50 miles east of Cheyenne). There will be tying and casting demos, along with other presentations on both fishing and conservation issues. There is a banquet and raffle on Saturday night ($20 per person); everything else is free. Things get started at 9AM both days, and all events will take place in the Wyoming Student Union, except for a reception on Friday at the Toppan Angling Books Collection, which will take place at the American Heritage Center. For further information call the Wyoming Union Ticket Office at 307-766-3160, or contact me by email (after de-munging the addy. This event is sponsored by the University Flycasters and the Wyoming Student Chapter of the American Fisheries Society. This is the seventh one of these we’ve done, and they’re always a good time. Make it if you can. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john

  Joe Bruce from the Anglers Edge here in Baltimore (the man writes very good books and makes videos on catching smallies with a fly rod), suggests a White Wulff.  I can see where this would work.  For all parts of a Wulff fly, use white materials.   They seem to be perfect. A size 14 or 16 as the White Miller mayfly on the mid-Atlantic rivers (as opposed to the White Miller caddis) is a perfect size 15.    We will be at the last gasps of the white miller hatch on the 19- 20th of August.  The bass may still hit on a white pattern because of conditioning.  Or it may be because a fish will hit whatever pisses him off.  Its worth a try.    BTW, Frank Church and I will be on site from the evening of Friday the 18th.  If anyone wants to drop in, there will be a cold one available.                            Frank Reid                              F Before you buy.

Response:

John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

I used to think he was a mind reader and was answering posts before you made them.  :-) Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

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Frank Sr.    If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.            Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Er, ah, maybe you ought to bring ‘tater chips instead of buffalo chips, no offense. :-/ Frank Sr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank Sr.   If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.           Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Damn Wayne, if you keep this up I don’t know if I can wait until 18 Aug to do battle with those fishies.  Wuz gonna bring my pontoon boat but it is not designed for river floating (some of the frame hangs very close to the water line under my seat) this could make for some interesting results if I get hung up on a rock in rapids, etc.  I could visualize starting the float as a tenor and coming in to camp as a soprano. :-] Hey, I can live with just wade-fishing.  BTW, Frank Jr. and I have decided steaks would be nice so I am bringing my portable gas grill…FWIW. Frank (one hung low) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat.

Response:

Well Pugs, my son is a Navy Chaplain, if you need ‘counseling’ to overcome your grief at missing the mini-clave, I’m sure he could help you out.  Only problem is you’d have to fly in to Naples for said counseling.  Think you could handle that?  ;-)) Frank (boy, do I need counseling!)  Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters.

Your posts are always off (in time anyway<g) for me too, the one I am replying to now says it was posted at 11:38am, but it’s only 8:37am here (EDT). FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Allen, As Executive Director of a Military History Museum I can appreciate your quandry.  One of our Board Members works with the Joint Chiefs.  Perhaps I can arrange to have the island moved off the coast of Virginia and you can fly out of NAS.  There is a small airfield in Spotsylvania County, Shannon Field.  You can get a Harrier in there without any problem.  Also a large grassy field at the campground store.  A SeaKing will fit nicely. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Wayne, The offer is certainly much appreciated. In fact we have to hop through NAS Oceana fuel pits on the way to Key West then to Roosey. The USNA wants a fly-by for the plebes taking their oath and I just know they’ll hold us at low alt for a while resulting in not enough fuel to one leg it to Key Weird. If we get to PR and the island has moved. I’ll immediatly re-file back to Norfolk and look for it off the coast! Of course, near VA rum won’t be 2.95 a gallon so sacrifies will have to be made by the clavsters if I show up. Cheers, Allen Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Don’t want him anywhere near me with that noisy old EA-6b.  I don’t even want to think about what those trons spittin’ out of his antenna would do to a highly conductive graphite rod.  Then again, he does have a couple of munitions available that would make getting that fish out of the heavy sunken brush a bit easier.      Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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[snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

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Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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Question:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

This class covers entomology, learning to read the water, river and lake methodology, and casting clinic for corrections.  It’s just one of those extra classes not for any degree. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at?

I’m not dead, man. Now where’s that damn Nancy? I coulda sworn she was just here…. – sid

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They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

By the most remarkable coincidence, I was at a TU picnic with Frogspritz, aka Mark Faulkner, a coupla hours ago. As  you may have noticed, he has been too busy loyering lately to be on the net.  So perhaps I may be permitted to respond. All undergraduate students at PSU, except veterans and perhaps a few others, must take a couple of credits in physical education.  I think that’s true of most colleges and universities. Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. To the best of my knowledge, neither a BA, a BS, an MA, an MS, nor a Ph.D. in fly fishing is offered.   I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. vince norris

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Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health.

Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.  If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).  I wonder if anyone is, or will be, teaching next.  Wish my school had that.  Shouldn’t gripe though, I got a credit for spending a long weekend at a beautiful Adirondack lodge on Racquette Lack cross country skiing and hanging by the fireplace with a bunch of girls I hadn’t met yet. Those were the days….. Regards, Jeff

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Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

It’s a _little_ more involved than that. You also have to remember that you’re supposed to be having fun instead of stressing. Seriously, though, we’re fishermen, and therefore opinionated bastards who will turn any question into a holy war. Try to remember that it’s nothing personal. I recommend a real live casting lesson. If you can find a guide who will include one in a day’s guiding, that might be even better. If not, ask at a local fly shop. I tried to teach myself from a video from Orvis, and I’m not entirely happy with that method. As far as gear…for starter gear, I would personally look at St. Croix, Cabelas, or the lower-end Sage rods.  If you can find a local shop that stocks them and doesn’t hard-sell the more expensive stuff, then go there. But remember: fly shops are all too often trying to sell rods, rather than selling you the _right_ rod for your needs. (I knew one exception, in Overland Park, KS. But supposedly there’s a really good one in Loveland, CO, if you’re anywhere near there.) "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.

That’s right. If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).

 Joe retired ten or so years ago, IIRC. He was succeeded by Vance McCullough, who either retired or just left the faculty to run a bar-restaurant (mostly a student hangout) with his brother. I’ve heard the name of the present instructor, but I don’t recall it. vince norris

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   see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?

Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

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       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Response:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes.

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Nice of you to go the trouble to post that, Willi. Regards, Jeff

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this. Mu

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

Oregon State has had it for at least the last 8 years.  Never took it oddly enough, saw them out casting to the "grass trout" on sunny days though.      - Ken

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I believe you may have struck a nerve, Vern!  However, I must say you egged this one on. So much for the niceness that Wayne Harrison wrote about. Let the *Games* begin. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

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        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Response:

Deleted some good advice I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments.

Finding someone to help you will definitely save you alot of trial and error, mostly error. I had been fly fishing on and off for a number of years before I found another fly fisherman to fish with (my family were spin fishermen). I learned the first couple of days fishing with this person than I had learned over several years on my own and through reading. Back to watch the Avs beat the Wings Willi

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 see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.

Nah.  Some alien stole Ken’s keyboard and his body…….OH and chiggers with a fucking ALIEN!!!  Oh man, I DON’T wanna do this anymore!

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       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

LMAO! Man, *that’s* imagery! /daytripper (bringing a rain coat to NC for sure ;^)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Remember, the drummer gets to choke to death on someone else’s vomit! Squiggy

Response:

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken?

Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth? Thanks in Advance Dan

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it.

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

I would try checking out your local video store or public library for an "intro to flyfishing" video. There’s alot more than just "back and forth", although you’d never guess it by reading ROFF…

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!         wayno

Response:

Question:

Thanks for all of the comments all of you sent me on the IIE vs II.  I just have one other question: How rugged is the Elan?  I plan to use it when I go hiking, canoeing, camping, etc.  I saw in another thread in this group that there was some question about the durability of one of the knobs.  Has anyone had any problems with the knobs breaking?  Can it stand to be used in the great outdoors?

Buy a good Camera bag, and don’t drop it.. I load my ElanIIe on the back of my Kawasaki Ninja zx-11, for motorcycling photos (see http://pwp.starnetinc.com/mercury/biking) I have a LowePro Nova 2 and pack 2 lenses (28-105, 100-300) with all the filters, film, and a micro-tripod (a Bogen) So far, it’s been pretty rugged… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your help.  I’m very close to a decision! Aldo P.S. One of you suggested saving the money and spending it on lenses.  I currently have a Rebel G and several lenses.  I just want a better body.

Response:

I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong? Sean, Not sure what you mean.  If the subject covered by the right zone is 60 ft away and the subject at the left zone is 10 ft away, the focal plane will be at the level of the one you look at.  So I suppose the camera does focus on a zone and not an object if that is your point.

I have the IIe and I understand his point. His point is that if, for example, the eye is looking at a far left corner, which is 30 feet away, but the left AF point happens to be resting on an object 10 feet away, you are out of luck.

Response:

Hello Aldo, The IIe is worth the price of $50 for me. It works 98% of the time for me and hence very valuable. I would hate not to have the eye control after using it for a while now. Good luck, Ann — Ann Q. Lee http://carcassi.eng.uci.edu/intropictures.htm

Response:

The Eye control works for me all the time so I am glad that I decided to get the IIe instead of the II.  In addition the DOF preview works too.  So I believe it is low risk to spend extra < $ 100 to get this feature.  I am really confused by the other comments. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … However, I have heard a number of camera store salespersons say that they didn’t like it at all, and then went on to say that the camera DOESN’T HAVE TRUE EYE-FOCUSING, it’s just which little red square you use, which should tell you that ignorant camera salespeople are with us and always will be. I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong? That is true, but the camera actually _does_ focus using that square. This salesman tried to steer me to a Minolta camera that focusses wherever the eye looks in the viewfinder, apparently. I know that this may not have any bearing on the original poster’s question, and I certainly don’t recommend one over the other, not having any real experience with either. — Sean Streiff — "Outside of that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" If you have nothing else to do, check my photo page at http://www.enteract.com/~ckross

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … However, I have heard a number of camera store salespersons say that they didn’t like it at all, and then went on to say that the camera DOESN’T HAVE TRUE EYE-FOCUSING, it’s just which little red square you use, which should tell you that ignorant camera salespeople are with us and always will be. I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong?

That is true, but the camera actually _does_ focus using that square. This salesman tried to steer me to a Minolta camera that focusses wherever the eye looks in the viewfinder, apparently. I know that this may not have any bearing on the original poster’s question, and I certainly don’t recommend one over the other, not having any real experience with either. — Sean Streiff

– "Outside of that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" If you have nothing else to do, check my photo page at http://www.enteract.com/~ckross

Response:

I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong?

Sean, Not sure what you mean.  If the subject covered by the right zone is 60 ft away and the subject at the left zone is 10 ft away, the focal plane will be at the level of the one you look at.  So I suppose the camera does focus on a zone and not an object if that is your point. However, the camera DOES in certain mode, determine exactly what the subject is.  It is called AI Servo mode, a ‘predictive’ focus mode and there are a couple of variations on the mode.  To Quote from the Magic Lantern Guide: In AI servo AF mode the shutter can fire even before the AF operation is complete.  Designed for moving subjects, the AI servo AF incorporates predictive AF.  This means that the AF sensor ‘locks’ on to the main subject, determines it’s direction and speed, and calculates where the object will be at the moment of exposure.  Predictive AF even compensates for the unavoidable split second that elapses between the time the shutter release is pressed and the moment of actual exposure, as the reflex mirror flips up and the aperture closes to its working value. End of quote.  In some lighting / film speed situations you may have a wide open aperture yielding little depth of field so this could be the difference between a soft shot and a sharp one.  The book goes on to give some techniques on how you can assist predictive focus to choose the right subject and track it more precisely.  I have not had occasion since buying the camera in December and shooting 30 rolls of film to use this feature.  I can not tell you how well it works or does not work, but the MLG writers say it’s great.  I would think that if it only works or helps half the time it would still be nice. — John Pearce Phoenix  AZ home is the right word for reply

Response:

you are correct. the ECF detects which AF point you’re looking at, i.e. your eye selects which AF point to use. i have the EOS 50E (Elan IIE) and use ECF about 95% of the time. it’s always either ECF or centre focusing point or manual focusing. i never use automatic selection. bl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … However, I have heard a number of camera store salespersons say that they didn’t like it at all, and then went on to say that the camera DOESN’T HAVE TRUE EYE-FOCUSING, it’s just which little red square you use, which should tell you that ignorant camera salespeople are with us and always will be. I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong? I know that this may not have any bearing on the original poster’s question, and I certainly don’t recommend one over the other, not having any real experience with either. — Sean Streiff

– My reply address above has been doctored to prevent SPAMming. Please undeliverable mail message.

Response:

Hi I’m considering the Canon EOS Elan II camera, and wanted to know whether the eye-focus function of the IIE is worth it or should I stick to the Elan II.  If you have a IIE do you use the eye-focus a lot? How do you like it?  If you had to do it over again would you buy a camera with the eye-focus feature? Thanks for the help Aldo

Hi Aldo, I just wanted to speak up after watching this thread a couple of days. I am not the pro so many good minds on the group are but I felt I had something to contribute. One fellow mentioned you should buy the II and save the money for a good lens.  Well, no matter what you do you need to get a good lens for certain.  However, if you buy from a place like B&H there is only about US $50 difference in the cost and that won’t go far on a lens anyway. I bought the IIe last December thinking that the money was not such a big deal (I know, I’m lucky and I do give to charity) and I could turn it off if I did not like the ECF.  I heard many say it didn’t work for them, I heard many say you have to hold your face just right for every shot or it didn’t work.  I heard some say it didn’t work with glasses. Well, I’ve shot 30 rolls of film and would kick myself in the butt if I didn’t have it and somehow learned how useful, easy, and realiable it is.  It has worked for me in every single shot, even when I forgot about it and would have messed up the shot on my own.  It works without glasses, with glasses, with sunglasses, with my forehead up against the shoe mounted flash and my nose and mouth away from the camera body, it works when my face is perfectly positioned or not.  It works for me, it always works, and it is effortless.   I don’t know, maybe people that had trouble took calibration too seriously.  Maybe I was sloppy when I calibrated the thing so it works over a wider range of motion.  Maybe I have big eyes.  Who knows.  The thing is you won’t know until you have used one for awhile and only you know if you can afford the $50 bucks to find out.   — John Pearce Phoenix  AZ home is the right word for reply

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… However, I have heard a number of camera store salespersons say that they didn’t like it at all, and then went on to say that the camera DOESN’T HAVE TRUE EYE-FOCUSING, it’s just which little red square you use, which should tell you that ignorant camera salespeople are with us and always will be.

I’ve only looked at the IIE once, and I don’t have a brochure handy, but I thought that what you say the salesperson said is correct.  As I recall, the camera doesn’t actually focus on what the eye is looking at, it simply uses whichever of the 3 AF points your eye is looking at (or looking closest to, perhaps).  Am I wrong? I know that this may not have any bearing on the original poster’s question, and I certainly don’t recommend one over the other, not having any real experience with either. — Sean Streiff

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    I have owned the Elan IIe for over a year – It has survived many flyfishing trips and even a crash or two on a mountain bike – Coming from an Olympus background I was unsure of the plastic of todays camera and lens – but – so far all has worked well. I should also add that the camera with the 28 – 105 canon lens has given me some really great fast action photos that I would probably have botched with a manual focus camera – I wear glases and the eye focus only seems to ’search’ in very low light situations A Happy Canon Camper Wayne

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Thanks for all of the comments all of you sent me on the IIE vs II.  I just have one other question: How rugged is the Elan?  I plan to use it when I go hiking, canoeing, camping, etc.  I saw in another thread in this group that there was some question about the durability of one of the knobs.  Has anyone had any problems with the knobs breaking?  Can it stand to be used in the great outdoors? Thanks for your help.  I’m very close to a decision! Aldo P.S. One of you suggested saving the money and spending it on lenses.  I currently have a Rebel G and several lenses.  I just want a better body.

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see http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~btong/obl/photos/info for my write up on the EOS 50E (aka Elan IIE). click on "hardware". bl Hi I’m considering the Canon EOS Elan II camera, and wanted to know whether the eye-focus function of the IIE is worth it or should I stick to the Elan II.  If you have a IIE do you use the eye-focus a lot? How do you like it?  If you had to do it over again would you buy a camera with the eye-focus feature? Thanks for the help Aldo

– My reply address above has been doctored to prevent SPAMming. Please undeliverable mail message.

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After doing my research and trying the Elan IIe in the store (it wasn’t calibrated correctly), I later let a store clerk talk me into getting the Elan II

Hmm funny a store clerk tried doing the same to me, fortunately I followed a similar tread a while back from the excellent folks in this group, there were a few neg’s and plenty of positives, I found that I too would appreciate a new technology that would save me having to lock focus and recompose or some other trick, so yeah I’d go for the E11e, even if it was just a gimmick I still support the advancement towards innovative and potentially useful technology. Trent

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hi Aldo, i use my eye control always.the other day i picked up my sons reble g and i wasnt able to feel comfortable.(like something was missing) so long, Harry

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*I* use the eye-focus function a lot! My wife, on the other hand, seems to not understand how it’s used, so for her, I put the camera in full auto mode. But it’s a great feature when you need to compose a shot other than dead center, great for depth-of-field auto settings, and will add to the enjoyment of your camera. However, I have heard a number of camera store salespersons say that they didn’t like it at all, and then went on to say that the camera DOESN’T HAVE TRUE EYE-FOCUSING, it’s just which little red square you use, which should tell you that ignorant camera salespeople are with us and always will be. Hi I’m considering the Canon EOS Elan II camera, and wanted to know whether the eye-focus function of the IIE is worth it or should I stick to the Elan II.  If you have a IIE do you use the eye-focus a lot? How do you like it?  If you had to do it over again would you buy a camera with the eye-focus feature? Thanks for the help Aldo

– "Outside of that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" If you have nothing else to do, check my photo page at http://www.enteract.com/~ckross

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I use the IIe in both eye controlled focus and camera controlled focus.  Its nice to have the eye control when you need it.  Buy it, you can always shut it off.

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Hi I’m considering the Canon EOS Elan II camera, and wanted to know whether the eye-focus function of the IIE is worth it or should I stick to the Elan II.  

Save your money for a good lens Jim Arnold Dallas, TX

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After doing my research and trying the Elan IIe in the store (it wasn’t calibrated correctly), I later let a store clerk talk me into getting the Elan II (afterall, it is just a gimmick – and I could find better things to spend the extra money on). Well, I shot one roll of film in the Elan II and knew that I had better get back to the store and exchange it for the IIe. First, while shooting in a wooded area, I could have used the Eye Focusing because the Elan II was automatically focusing on a section of trees that were closest to me, rather than the one I wanted to focus on. So, I had to manually choose the focus point. Next, when wanting to try the Depth of Field Preview, I first had to change the custom setting on the Elan II so I could use the AF Lock button to activate the Depth of Field Preview. By the end of the roll I knew I would miss the Eye Controlled Focussing – or rather, I knew how helpful it can be. Spend the extra $50 and get the Elan IIe. You will not regret it. And, if you wish to turn it off, you can. But it will always be there when you want/need it. The Eye Controlled Depth of Field Preview is worth it alone! Michael Chicago, IL

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I strongly recommend getting the Eye Control Focus feature.  It is much more than a gimmick—it quickly becomes intuitive, and I think it is the natural evolution of making autofocus work as smoothly as manual focus. The ECF on the Elan IIE is better than that on the A2E, since it is bidirectional (vertical and horizontal). Richard Baltimore

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Hi I’m considering the Canon EOS Elan II camera, and wanted to know whether the eye-focus function of the IIE is worth it or should I stick to the Elan II.  If you have a IIE do you use the eye-focus a lot? How do you like it?  If you had to do it over again would you buy a camera with the eye-focus feature? Thanks for the help Aldo

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Question:

Hi: I may get a chance to go south to the San Mateo Fly Fishing show in early February.  What types of fishing opportunities are there along the coast?  We will try to come back along US101.  Any striper fishing then? Also, any comments on previous San Mateo shows?  I am interested in some of bamboo fly rod presentations that are supposed to be there. If I get there, I’ll also be helping with the Oregon council FFF booth, so stop by and say hi. Don DD Chen             Standard disclaimers USDA-ARS             always apply NFSPRC 3450 SW Campus Way Corvallis, OR 97331 541-750-8741

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Not to answer a question with a question, but… What is the show? when is it? I might be interested in attending. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I may get a chance to go south to the San Mateo Fly Fishing show in early February.  What types of fishing opportunities are there along the coast?  We will try to come back along US101.  Any striper fishing then? Also, any comments on previous San Mateo shows?  I am interested in some of bamboo fly rod presentations that are supposed to be there. If I get there, I’ll also be helping with the Oregon council FFF booth, so stop by and say hi. Don DD Chen             Standard disclaimers USDA-ARS             always apply NFSPRC 3450 SW Campus Way Corvallis, OR 97331 541-750-8741

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The show is great.  I believe it is 2/5 -2/8 at the San Mateo Exposition Center.  All the major, and many minor manufacturers attend.  You can try out all the different fly rods.  There is a casting competition as well as flytying and casting exhibitions and instruction by people like Dave Whitlock, Andre Puyans, Ralph Cutter, Lefty Kreh, etc.  I’ve attended for the past 8 years.  There is also a hunting hall, dog training and exhibitions, a place for kids to catch fish, shoot arrows and b.b. guns, and learn about conservation.     As for things to do on the way down the coast – try some steelheading on the Smith, Eel, Mattole, Mad, and Klamath Rivers.  There are some trout ponds and lakes in the Klamath River area, Mendicino area and Marin County.  Check out Tom Steinstra’s compendium book "California Fishing" which contains an exhaustive list of waters, tactics and species by area of California. I also recommend that you check with the Eureka Fly Shop, and some of the other Northern California shops.  A good place to get information is through the links listed for California at http://www.davisbrown.com/ffgeo.htm under "United States" and then, "California" Have a safe trip and tight lines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to answer a question with a question, but… What is the show? when is it? I might be interested in attending. Hi: I may get a chance to go south to the San Mateo Fly Fishing show in early February.  What types of fishing opportunities are there along the coast?  We will try to come back along US101.  Any striper fishing then? Also, any comments on previous San Mateo shows?  I am interested in some of bamboo fly rod presentations that are supposed to be there. If I get there, I’ll also be helping with the Oregon council FFF booth, so stop by and say hi. Don DD Chen             Standard disclaimers USDA-ARS             always apply NFSPRC 3450 SW Campus Way Corvallis, OR 97331 541-750-8741

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Given a little sunlight, the striper bite in the delta should be wide open about the time of the Ed Rice Show. You can rent boats at Bethel Island, Chuck’s Bait, on the water at Russo’s Marina. Rental of a boat with buddy two and trolling motor is about $70 per day. You don’t have more than a quarter mile before you’re into fish. — Jerry Al and Jerry’s Excellent Adventures http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado Al and Jerry’s Fishing Forum http://pluto.beseen.com/boardroom/m/19629

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Question:

Shad (serious snip)

Hi, The Annapolis River up here just got through it’s shad run which is still very good. had a lient down from ontario, he ot 3 fish in a couple of hours using clouser minnows. We like the chartruese ones, but others would probably work…. Bill — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Shad (serious snip)

Hi, The Annapolis River up here just got through it’s shad run which is still very good. Had a client down from Ontario, he got 3 fish in a couple of hours using clouser minnows. We like the chartruese ones, but others would probably work…. Bill — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

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Michael: I like to fish for shad along the Sacramento River at Willows and in Chico. There a fly shop in Chico, the Powell Fly shop I believe, that has good information on how the run is progressing.     The flys are fairly simple, chartruese, pink, red, white and silver are good colors and use either bead heads or bead eyes.  Mix and match the tail and body colors. The reports this year have been dissapointing, too much water that is too cold and off color for any good fishing.  If you want more info re flys feel free to e-mail me. Chis Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

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: I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in : mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting : older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar : to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and : silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest : that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations : for guides in the same area? I have caught them on small chartreuse and white clousers in the Merrimack River in Massachusettes.

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Hello TMR, I went out to Upper Sunrise (just below Sailor Bar) a couple of nights ago: the water is still cold and I did not see any fish working.  Sahd fishing is one of the great early summer fishing opportunities along the American.  The fish fight well and they CAN be caught in numbers if conditions are right.  A Crazy Charlie will work, but there are some standard pink, green, and white shad flies that seem to be regularly used on the Sac.  Most fly shops have a good selection , but if you tie your own they are very easy.  I have heard the fish are in the river, but conditions may have to warm before they start taking flys. Good luck JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

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Sure wish I could give you updated info….however, I have fond memories of my younger days when I would flyfish for Shad with my dad and brother.  At that time, the Eel River had good Shad runs and we lived just fifteen minutes from the river (if you drove quickly).  We caught lots of Shad in those days.  Today, the Eel River (like many) are mere shadows of their former selves.  I suppose there are Shad runs….but I have yet to see one myself during the last several years.  The Sacramento River is still a bright spot for Shad, I’m told.  As to flies…we used sizes from tens to fours…usually with silver bead eyes and white, pink or red hackle, silver body, red tail.  We’d tie variations, but the size seemed to be the most important and the depth at which you fished. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area? Thanks

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Tue, 26 May 1998 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, T.Michael Reinhart I used to religously fish the American River (Sailor Bar/Nimbus) area in mid to late June for shad (pre-kids). Now that the kids are getting older I’m hoping to get back into it again. We used to use a fly similar to the Crazy Charlie Bonefish Fly – bead eyes, chartruese tail and silver/pearl foil bodies. Anyone out there using the latest and greatest that would be willing to share trade secrets? and/or any recommendations for guides in the same area?

Which species are these?  I caught a few Allis Shad (Alosa Alosa) in the River Wye, South Wales, last week (in from the Atlantic).  Very rare in the UK and therefore a protected species.  Caught them on all sorts of trout flies – nothing special.  What fighters!  Knowing that I had to release them I was worried about catching more – they just fought too hard… — Phil Jones

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Question:

Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

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Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

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Ben, You must have had bad luck! I’ve been on the lake four times, three times for stays of 5 days or more. For me, the fishing was always fantastic!!!  This is a canoe only lake, with a 2.5 km portage in.  For this reason, there is less fishing pressure on Murtle than you would find on lakes with easy car access.  I’ve pulled trout out of the lake up to five lbs with 2-3 lbs being the average.  I’ve fished it standing in the water casting in shallows, float tubing and trolling from the canoe and never been skunked.  On one trip I spoke with a park rangers who said some slob had pulled out a 14 pounder out of the north arm of the lake! The lake has two arms: north and west.  I’ve never been up the north arm but I understand that it has much less traffic than the west but the weather isn’t quite as good as it is on the west arm.  The west arm has better camping spots and BETTER FISHING.  There is a river that flows into the west arm (the name escapes me now) that is a used by the kokanee in the late summer to spawn.  I’ve fished the outlet of the river and had some of the best fishing days of my life. On one trip in early  September, I caught three fish in four casts.  All of them were 12-16 inches. The west arm empties into the Murtle River which has some great dry fly fishing all along it.  Though the further down the river you go from the lake the smaller the fish get. This lake is a fishing heaven that has some fantastic dry fly action if your in the right place at the right time.  My best luck has been with black leeches, big dragon fly nymphs and Doc Spratleys.  Take lots of these if your a fly fisherman.  For drys take lots of Adams, dark dun Elk Wing Caddis and a variety of other western drys. Good Luck, Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii. Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan Are you talking about crawfish? or commonly called crawdads. If so, you can catch them with a baited trap or at night in the shallows with a light. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Here is info from an expert:         As a former 10 year resident of Kauai this is how all the locals trap prawns.         They get the standard wire mesh with 1/4 inch square spaces. Bend the mesh until you have made a tube about 18 inches long open at both ends. Close off one end flat with the left over mesh. You then suspend half of a coconut shell with the coconut meat still in the shell in the back of the tube where you have closed it off with the meat facing the open end. You then take a piece of the same wire mesh and form a cone with the small end roughly about the size of a tennis ball depending on the size of the prawns in the pond you are looking to harvest. Insert the cone in the open end of the tube and affix to tube (this prevents them from leaving the trap). Tie a string to the end and leave over night and the next morning you should have a nice breakfast waiting for you.         If you have never seen a prawn they look almost exactly like crawdads but their pinchers are about ten times as long and their bodies can be as long as 12 to 14 inches. A true Hawaiian delicacy! Aloha, Shane — Roller Hockey International Grass Valley League Office 13070 Fawn Hill Dr. Grass Valley, CA  95945 ph: 916-272-7825        FAX: 916-272-7858         Standings/Statistics    http://www.oro.net/~rhiglo/

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I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii.   Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan

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I’ve never done it before, but I have decided to try for freshwater prawns. These live in the streams on the Big Island of Hawaii.   Maybe someone could share some pointers on fishing techniques. I’ve heard of people using crab nets.  They seem too fast for wading in with scooping nets.  Are there traps that one can build? -thanx -dan

Are you talking about crawfish? or commonly called crawdads. If so, you can catch them with a baited trap or at night in the shallows with a light. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I have not seen a post on hex type rods. Has/does anyone use one? What is the action like? Why do  you prefer it? Thanks Michael

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Hexagraph rods have a sweet medium to medium fast action.  They are strikingly similar in appearance to bamboo and typically much faster and not as pricey either. Tom www.kinghill.com Best regards,   TK       King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. http://www.kinghill.com/kinghill

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