Question:

<snip  i just can’t imagine trying to fish with a fly rod for trout under the conditions you have described.

It’s not often like I described. George and I have shared the entire stretch with one or two others for most of the season. Because of the warm weather immediately following a cold snap, and the threat of bad weather all the following week, everyone’s fishing time was compacted into one day. Also, there are other good "wild" rivers around the area, but the drought-like conditions have kept them way down this year, hence the concentration of fishers at the Swift. The Swift has a controlled flow and sustains the good trout conditions pretty much year ’round. thank god for the blue ridge, and the great smokies, and the old north state.     why don’t ya come down and *see* us some time…

I’d like that and, if the invitation remains open and the stars align properly, I plan on getting to the ONS next Autumn. I’d like to hear about the anti-clave from the perspective of a non-participant of the death march so I can better gage the kind of fishing I’d see. Should you find your way to Western Massachusetts some day, there is typically some very good fishing to show you and some wonderful scenery. Why, Stan might even show you his secret spot. . . — TL, Tim

Response:

Ahhhh, "therein lies the rub." While we are trying to be stealthy and fool the fish into taking one of our real-life imitations, the spinner folks are just trying to piss ‘em off. At the next ‘clave, try this experiment – see which takes longer: pissing someone off or fooling them. Based on years of scientific study and black eyes, I’ve found that pissing *people* off can be a much quicker endeavor, and this probably holds true for fish as well.  :)

Tim, it is funny your story. I was in your neck of the woods on Sat afternoon with a spinning rod, a six of budlite, two packs of white owls, a buddy and his son … nah, just kidding. I was up on the Hoosic, though, and the same thing happened: I was in the pool first and a guy with his son came by. He told his son to fish in front of me on the opposite back. He went downstream and start to cast within a couple of yards of me. Judging by his glares, the SOB looked like he cared more about the pool than I did, so I moved on to the next pool. Some things just aren’t worth the hypertension (or the hospital fees). — Gary M (remove ‘x’s from email address)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left. How does this stuff happen?  We stealthy fly fishermen can creep upto a pool on our bellies, deftly cast our 7X tippets from a crouch, and still put fish down for an entire day with a brief glint off a chrome tip top.   Yet a loud bunch of spin fishermen can loudly stroll right into a pool, toss down their cigarette butts, then turn around and catch a nice rainbow.   There’s something wrong with that.  :-)

Ahhhh, "therein lies the rub." While we are trying to be stealthy and fool the fish into taking one of our real-life imitations, the spinner folks are just trying to piss ‘em off. At the next ‘clave, try this experiment – see which takes longer: pissing someone off or fooling them. Based on years of scientific study and black eyes, I’ve found that pissing *people* off can be a much quicker endeavor, and this probably holds true for fish as well.  :) — TL, Tim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…     i just can’t imagine trying to fish with a fly rod for trout under the

conditions you have described.     thank god for the blue ridge, and the great smokies, and the old north state.     why don’t ya come down and *see* us some time… yfitons wayno

Response:

<… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river.

You got me all wrong, Stan. I’m innocent – innocent, I tells ya. <g  I haven’t done any spinner fishing in the past few years, but before that I did quite a bit myself. I have nothing against spinner fishing, and would have been just as ticked off had a fly fisher started casting right in front of me. When I was spinner fishing, I always gave other fishers a wide berth when they had staked a claim. I think it’s a courtesy for any type of fishing. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

Yeah – the "elbow-to-elbow" conditions aren’t the ultimate. If we get some more decent weather, I’m going to go to some of my downriver spots. I’ve found these far less populated, but the scenery is pretty poor in places. A lot of trash-dumping goes on by the time you get to Bondsville. — TL, Tim

Response:

In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them. Those guys toughed it out. I figured they would take the hint, but if I got too close they probably would have just moved closer to you….they seemed to be that sort. Good that they take the kid fishing, but not setting a good example for him.

The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left. He was very excited and I heard him ask the older guys as they were packing to leave when they could bring him again. The better news is that they *did* release the fish, because I had serious doubts that they would. Hopefully, the fish survived the handling. — TL, Tim

Response:

The good news is that the kid caught a nice rainbow right after you left.

How does this stuff happen?  We stealthy fly fishermen can creep upto a pool on our bellies, deftly cast our 7X tippets from a crouch, and still put fish down for an entire day with a brief glint off a chrome tip top.   Yet a loud bunch of spin fishermen can loudly stroll right into a pool, toss down their cigarette butts, then turn around and catch a nice rainbow.   There’s something wrong with that.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

The traffic there has been real sporadic all year. There’s been a few weekends when you can’t even find a place to park, yet there’s been as many when I’ve found myself fishing alone for long periods of time. It’s often been more crowded on weekday evenings than the weekends, though Tim and I have fished several weekday evenings with little or no company. To paraphrase Yogi, "Nobody fishes it because it’s so crowded." George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

Yeah, well, I figured if it’s going to be stupid, short is the best way to go. It just didn’t turn out that way. As someone else mentioned on another TR, we had a relatively warm weekend. As I was raking leaves and cleaning the yard for the winter onslaught, I thought, "What in the hell am I doing wasting perfectly good fishing weather?" When SWMBO decided it was time for her to start Christmas shopping, I wished her well but convinced her that I MUST stay and get the yard work done. As she pulled out of the driveway, I saw my opening and threw the blower and rake in the shed as I ran to grab my waders. So now it’s about 13:00 on a Saturday afternoon. I figured there were two choices: The nearby C & R area was bound to be primed for combat fishing since every other fly fisher in the area was probably throwing their rakes into the shed at about the same time. Or I could go to a less fished area of the river, but there are really only a few decent areas for throwing in a fly and have a possibility of catching much. I decide on the former and speed off. As I pull into the C & R area, this little red Subaru is blocking my forward progress. DAMN – George got the fishing idea just a moment before it came to me. As we pull up to the parking area, the number of vehicles indicate finding a good spot might be a problem. George decides he’ll head downstream to the usual and best spots to see how heavily occupied by the enemy they might be. With my eternal optimism I went upstream to see if any fish had migrated that far. I found a couple of runs that looked semi-promising and started wetting the line. I caught four tremendous lunkers, with the largest being the size of my index finger. One of them received full backcast treatment from me. With that kind of success behind me, I trudge off in search of George. I decided that he must have found a spot and be doing okay since he wasn’t searching for me. I find him in a prime location throwing some kind of black gnat about the size of a pin head. He tells me he has picked up a few decent ‘bows already and I notice there is another prime spot open just downstream from him. I make a run of drifts with a #24 Griffiths Gnat, which was the smallest thing I had. The fish rise at it, but no takes. I then catch the branch directly above me and am doomed to lose the fly and all except the butt section of leader. As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me. Can you imagine throwing spinners in the presence of a 5 year old? <G As they get the lure stuck on a log, I hear them discuss having "the guy with the waders" get it for them. Obviously, I am too involved with tying my leader and cannot hear them, so one of them sloshes out into the pool to reclaim it. The fish to which I’d been casting scatter. In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them. Finally, I decide I’ve had enough and reel in my line, raise my rod, give them a stern stare, and . . . move back up river. I decided that I wouldn’t succeed in teaching them anything and would probably just sour the 5 year old from fishing again. Some of the other fishermen come out of the spot just above George, so I enter there. I watch George land a nice ‘bow and I continue to throw stuff at ‘em to no avail. Right before dark, I bring a small brookie (maybe all of 6 inches) to hand and call it a day. Since this was a day when I hadn’t planned to fish at all, it was a fun one all the more and possibly the last shirt-sleeve one of the season. I thank the weather gods for it and head for home. — TL, Tim

Response:

In the meantime, picture George acting like he’s oblivious to it all as he continues to backcast in their general direction. These guys can’t take a hint, though, and probably wouldn’t even if he landed one of them.

Those guys toughed it out. I figured they would take the hint, but if I got too close they probably would have just moved closer to you….they seemed to be that sort. Good that they take the kid fishing, but not setting a good example for him. I watch George land a nice ‘bow and I continue to throw stuff at ‘em to no avail.

Wound up with 3 browns and 3 ‘bows. (not unethical to count if you can do it on your fingers) Likely will be my last time out unless we get another warm spell, even though I tied up some more of the #26 emergers.  I left my last one in a decent fish and decided to call it quits. Come on Spring!! George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

<… As I’m tying on new sections, two beer-drinking, cigarette smoking, spinner-throwing gentlemen with a 5 or 6 year old boy appear with the all subtlety of a runaway train between George and me and start casting into MY pool 10 feet in front of me.

Nice report Tim.  Don’t be to hard on the spin fishermen – I used to fish the Swift and Deerfield with spinners when I was younger and poorer.  From their point of view, you and George were hogging the river. However, you did hit on the reason why I just can’t bring myself to fish the Swift on a weekend…

Response:

Question:

BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. Does this mean I get a percentage of the gross sales? Moby. The dry wit of ages….

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I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. If you had "irresistable charm and stuff" then "cult following" would be spelt slightly differently… Alvey

You broke me up with that one.

Response:

BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100%

of the time? Yeah… just ask some of the Aussie cricket team. : ) Nick

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time? The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

It’s certainly enough for me to remove a poster from the kill-file It’s probably the one thing that separates the decent ng members from the riff-raff: the ability to apologise and admit mistakes. Although I have nfi which particular one you’re apologising for. Moby.

Response:

For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Apologise to people in this group ?  You are not anevil bitch but a stupid one

Response:

For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

I knew the title was too good to be true. You got me Oswald! Rourkster

Response:

Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

Response:

Question:

The last couple of times I have been out fishing the weather has been less than ideal.  My last day out was Super Bowl Sunday and I went to fish the Gallatin River.  The river was flowing like a runny slushy and it was very cold out.  This was the first time I have ever had a layer of ice on my leader and had small flies freeze into ice cubes.  The slush on the water made it very difficult to get the flies and leader to penetrate the surface for a decent drift. I did manage to get one lazy take and did see several fish feeding, but I did not land anything.  It is hard trying to hook a fish with an ice cube.  I still had a nice day visiting some of the places I used to fish on a regular basis before moving to Livingston. The previous outing, I found myself in between trips of the "big move".  I loaded the truck up and decided instead of driving back to Bozeman and unloading that I would fish for a few hours then do the deed.  I drove up the Yellowstone for a few miles to a nice side channel of the river that is easy to wade.  It was cold out, but the sun was shining and there was little wind.  Other than the drone of passing cars, it was a very peaceful day out.  I managed to catch a few whitefish but missed out on the rainbows when they started rising to midges. Somehow I had managed to forget my box of dry flies on my desk after adding midge patterns. The weekend before I had my daughter and the weather had been perfect for a long day of fishing.  I was unable to go for obvious reasons, but I couldn’t help but wondering how the fishing was with each look outside the window.  This weekend the weather is very nice.  Currently it is in the 40’s and somewhat cloudy.  It has been above freezing every day since Thursday (since I picked up my daughter) and the big storm that they have been predicting has not materialized as of yet (6- 12" of snow my ass!). As I look out of my window, once again wondering how the fishing is right now, I am starting to wonder if I am cursed.  It seems that every time that I am unable to get out, the weather will be nice.  When I am able to fish, the weather decides to become the worst it will be than on the preceding or following days. There is a bright side to this curse however.  The days I am able to fish are either by myself or with very few others out on the rivers. In my last three outings I have only encountered 4 people and only got within speaking range once.  This solitude is part of the charm of winter fishing and I always have spring and summer to look forward to for warmer weather.  The time spent with my daughter is invaluable and a worthy trade for such a minor curse.  Is having the best of both worlds too much to ask for though?

Response:

Just curious Warren.  Is John Grisham required reading for law

students <G. Email Wayno and ask him or wait another year and half for me to start law school — Warren Findley

Response:

Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty?

Warren

Response:

Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty? <g Warren

Just curious Warren.  Is John Grisham required reading for law students <G. I just finished reading The Brethren, and I am a few pages from the end of The Rainmaker.  I couldn’t put down The Brethren and I didn’t want it to end either. I’m no fictional literature aficionado, but he sure keeps my attention. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Don’t worry,  this "curse" is not just restricted to you.  Last season,  my 4 absolute favourite flyfishing weekends in the Piscatorial Calendar (last in May, first in June, plus last 2 in Sept)  were washed out with flooded rivers.

Response:

Don’t worry,  this "curse" is not just restricted to you.  Last season,  my 4 absolute favourite flyfishing weekends in the Piscatorial Calendar (last in May, first in June, plus last 2 in Sept)  were washed out with flooded rivers.

Were you trying to fish the Grand last year.  :)  It was flooded too. Flooding must be catching. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…cut for brevity… I am starting to wonder if I am cursed.

…cut for brevity… Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty? Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Question:

John I know people that have had the factory firsts, sure you want a second? ND#1   ( do you have a garden? ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

I have some of the first bamboo flyrods that George built and they are catching plenty of fish still, and the cast beautifuly.. … I think you need to spend more time fishing and less time time in your garden. — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John I know people that have had the factory firsts, sure you want a second? ND#1   ( do you have a garden? ) Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

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I have some of the first bamboo flyrods that George built and they are catching plenty of fish still, and the cast beautifuly.. …

Lemme guess.  You got half a dozen or so #12s and a couplea #11s, right?

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OH MY chris smith porter maine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know.

Response:

Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Question:

Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another?

Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper ! TL MC

Response:

I am not familiar with these. Can you elaborate? Source? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another? Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper ! TL MC

Response:

Hi Keith, these are known as "leader rings". They were invented by a German guy called Edgar Pitzenbauer, a well known German flyfisher. They are small virtually weightless sterling silver rings. If you tie them into your leader you can change droppers easily, and without damaging the leader. You may also use lighter dropper lengths, as the line is knotted directly to the ring. I have found them extremely reliable and useful.  The last few I bought were from "Sportfish" in the UK, their e-mail is A packet of ten rings costs 2.25 UK pounds at Sportfish. They are described and illustrated on page 37 of the Spring 99 catalogue. They must be available in the States as well, but I unfortunately do not know where. Perhaps someone else knows ? I found the manufacturer in the USA for you.  It is : Terminal Tactics, P.O.Box 455, Sauk Rapids, Minnesota 56379. Tel. (612) 251-9479   Fax (612) 259-8719. If you need any more info, drop me a mail, and I can e-mail you a scan of the packet with descriptions etc. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Sorry but the "daisy chain method" is… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are, literally, tiny rings to which may be tied multiple lines. Eg: tie your leader to a ring, then tie a short dropper to the same ring, then tie a long dropper to the same ring, using the same knots that you’d tie a fly to a tippet. I still prefer the "daisy chain" method. I get far fewer rats nests then having separate droppers off the main leader… /daytripper I am not familiar with these. Can you elaborate? Source? Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another? Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper !

Response:

Also, where can you get these rings? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are, literally, tiny rings to which may be tied multiple lines. Eg: tie your leader to a ring, then tie a short dropper to the same ring, then tie a long dropper to the same ring, using the same knots that you’d tie a fly to a tippet. I still prefer the "daisy chain" method. I get far fewer rats nests then having separate droppers off the main leader… /daytripper I am not familiar with these. Can you elaborate? Source? Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another? Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper !

Response:

These are, literally, tiny rings to which may be tied multiple lines. Eg: tie your leader to a ring, then tie a short dropper to the same ring, then tie a long dropper to the same ring, using the same knots that you’d tie a fly to a tippet. I still prefer the "daisy chain" method. I get far fewer rats nests then having separate droppers off the main leader… /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am not familiar with these. Can you elaborate? Source? Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another? Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper !

Response:

By "daisy chain" I mean that the tail fly is tie to a piece of tippet that is tied to the hook bend of the lead fly. /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sorry but the "daisy chain method" is… These are, literally, tiny rings to which may be tied multiple lines. Eg: tie your leader to a ring, then tie a short dropper to the same ring, then tie a long dropper to the same ring, using the same knots that you’d tie a fly to a tippet. I still prefer the "daisy chain" method. I get far fewer rats nests then having separate droppers off the main leader… /daytripper I am not familiar with these. Can you elaborate? Source? Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another? Use the small sterling silver rings available for this purpose. Brilliant, saves line and temper !

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Sounds like the fly fishing equivalent of a three-way barrel swivel in spin casting terms. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Keith, these are known as "leader rings". They were invented by a German guy called Edgar Pitzenbauer, a well known German flyfisher. They are small virtually weightless sterling silver rings. If you tie them into your leader you can change droppers easily, and without damaging the leader. You may also use lighter dropper lengths, as the line is knotted directly to the ring. I have found them extremely reliable and useful.  The last few I bought were from "Sportfish" in the UK, their e-mail is A packet of ten rings costs 2.25 UK pounds at Sportfish. They are described and illustrated on page 37 of the Spring 99 catalogue. They must be available in the States as well, but I unfortunately do not know where. Perhaps someone else knows ? I found the manufacturer in the USA for you.  It is : Terminal Tactics, P.O.Box 455, Sauk Rapids, Minnesota 56379. Tel. (612) 251-9479   Fax (612) 259-8719. If you need any more info, drop me a mail, and I can e-mail you a scan of the packet with descriptions etc. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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For all intents, you’re quite correct. /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sounds like the fly fishing equivalent of a three-way barrel swivel in spin casting terms. Hi Keith, these are known as "leader rings". They were invented by a German guy called Edgar Pitzenbauer, a well known German flyfisher. They are small virtually weightless sterling silver rings. If you tie them into your leader you can change droppers easily, and without damaging the leader. You may also use lighter dropper lengths, as the line is knotted directly to the ring. I have found them extremely reliable and useful.  The last few I bought were from "Sportfish" in the UK, their e-mail is A packet of ten rings costs 2.25 UK pounds at Sportfish. They are described and illustrated on page 37 of the Spring 99 catalogue. They must be available in the States as well, but I unfortunately do not know where. Perhaps someone else knows ? I found the manufacturer in the USA for you.  It is : Terminal Tactics, P.O.Box 455, Sauk Rapids, Minnesota 56379. Tel. (612) 251-9479   Fax (612) 259-8719. If you need any more info, drop me a mail, and I can e-mail you a scan of the packet with descriptions etc. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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0] : Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for : one advantage or another? For that purpose, when I tie big, high floating drys like humpies or elk hair caddises which make good visible indicators, I tie a loop of 3X or 4X mono onto the shank of the hook for attaching a trailing dropper. I find this useful not only for trailing nymphs, but for hard to see small dry flies. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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Unless it’s with cobwebs a double surgeon’s loop is hard to beat. Bob Sheedy — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

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I use a blood knot because the dropper comes out of the knot at a "pure" 90 degrees, unless I’m in a hurry when a surgeon’s knot works just as well… Flyfish

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Try tying your dropper to the hook of your lead fly.  Just put a "perfection loop" in your dropper leader.  This works great for fishing a dry and then a nymph of the same bug.  It also doesn’t get tangled very easily. Good luck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another?

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Usually I prefer the cleanest method – tie the dropper off the bend of the dry – tangles rarely and it’s easy to detect a fish taking the nymph due the the straight connection. For small flies and big fish though, try this one, taught to me by Mr. Rizutto at his San Juan fly shop (a great place to stop in the morning for flies, esp if you’re too cheap to hire a guide like me): Match the end of your leader and tippet together and thread BOTH through the eye of your dry, then tie a modified clinch with only three twists (due to tying two separate strands of mono).  Then just tie your nymph to the end of the tippet and Voila! a very strong set up.  Sometimes you’ll notice the dry floating sideways or whatever, because this makes a pretty stiff connection. If you can’t "tweak " the knot a little to realign the dry, rety it.  Very Strong. Bruiser

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Usually I prefer the cleanest method – tie the dropper off the bend of the dry – tangles rarely and it’s easy to detect a fish taking the nymph due the the straight connection.

Yup – I agree with this. For small flies and big fish though, try this one, taught to me by Mr. Rizutto at his San Juan fly shop (a great place to stop in the morning for flies, esp if you’re too cheap to hire a guide like me): Match the end of your leader and tippet together and thread BOTH through the eye of your dry, then tie a modified clinch with only three twists (due to tying two separate strands of mono).  Then just tie your nymph to the end of the tippet and Voila! a very strong set up.  Sometimes you’ll notice the dry floating sideways or whatever, because this makes a pretty stiff connection. If you can’t "tweak " the knot a little to realign the dry, rety it.  Very Strong.

Interesting – and perhaps a challenge with small eyed hooks. I can’t imagine threading two chunks of 6x through a #20 or smaller hook eye – I have enough trouble threading even 8x through a #20 (gotta buy some damned bifocals – or at least reading glasses!) In any case, there’s one good "gotcha" that shows up when you want to  change the point fly – you have to retie the lead fly as well… /daytripper

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Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another?

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Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another?

Tie in the lead fly, then tie another piece of tippet to the hook bend of the lead fly using a clinch knot (improved or otherwise), then tie in the point fly. /daytripper

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Keith,    I just use a blood knot.  Leave the section of your leader next to the tippet about 9" longer than you normally would.  Tie a blood knot letting this amount extend at right angles to the knot and don’t trim it.  The dropper being a bigger diameter than the tippet will not tangle with the tippet as easily as a dropper the same diameter as the tippet. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone got any special/favorite techniques/knotts for tying droppers for one advantage or another?

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Question:

Anyone able to help with my problem?  Lately I have been finding it difficult to get my leaders to lay down reasonably straight no matter what size or kind of fly I am fishing.  At times I am able to accomplish this by timing my cast (by accident of course) so that the leader hits the water just as it unrolls from the forward cast.  This technique plays havoc with a soft presentation though! Jay Kidwell

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Anyone able to help with my problem?  Lately I have been finding it difficult to get my leaders to lay down reasonably straight no matter what size or kind of fly I am fishing.  At times I am able to accomplish this by timing my cast (by accident of course) so that the leader hits the water just as it unrolls from the forward cast.  This technique plays havoc with a soft presentation though! Jay Kidwell

How does the leader land on the water ? What kind of leader are you using ? Does the line lay straight ? What kind of line do you use ? I have personally found knotted leaders to be better than tapered ones and braided leaders to be better than knotted ones as far as presentation goes. Also, depending on the stream, if you are fishing with dries sometimes you rally do not want a straight leader.   I read somewhere (in one of the famous books, of course I do not remember which) a technique that helps reducing significantly the drag problems that are very common when fishing spring creeks where the current differential on the surface can vary significantly thus making a perfect dead drift presentation rather hard, even when using the S cast. The author suggested to aim at the points of the trees on the opposite bank  and not at your level as one usually does.  As a result, the line will straighten in the air, then fall in the water and the leader will come down in loose coils.   Consequently the resulting drift is much longer than usual.  I have tried the technique in several occasions with very good results. Maybe you are aiming too high when you finish your cast. Or, maybe you finish your cast too soon, I find that when I am tired or lazy I tend not to perform the forward cast with too small of a movement, and as a result the leader does not straighten well.. Tight lines -Vittorio

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Could be a number of things.  Begin with a new soft leader and then add plenty of tippet material and stretch that leader out.  Pause a touch longer on your back cast and they cast to a point a little higher than your normal cast.  Your line and leader should lay out parallel to the water and then gently float down.  If not, you either have an unballanced outfit our your technique may be slightly off.  In either case, have another experienced fly fisher help you out.  Try other outfits and that should tell you if it is you or your outfit. Don’t use your nymphing outfit to expect to lay a delicat #28 within a couple of inches of where you want it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone able to help with my problem?  Lately I have been finding it difficult to get my leaders to lay down reasonably straight no matter what size or kind of fly I am fishing.  At times I am able to accomplish this by timing my cast (by accident of course) so that the leader hits the water just as it unrolls from the forward cast.  This technique plays havoc with a soft presentation though! Jay Kidwell

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Have you switched brands lately?                                           …Steven

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Anyone able to help with my problem?  Lately I have been finding it difficult to get my leaders to lay down reasonably straight no matter what size or kind of fly I am fishing.  At times I am able to accomplish this by timing my cast (by accident of course) so that the leader hits the water just as it unrolls from the forward cast.  This technique plays havoc with a soft presentation though! Jay Kidwell

Hi Jay There are a lot of reasons your leader may not be straightening out but the most common is feeding slack line into the cast at the wrong time. Many casters develop a tendency to feed extra line just as they start the forward cast there by killing the transfer of energy from the rod to the line. This could be your problem. A couple of solutions: visit your local fly shop for a lesson or contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and get the info on a club near you. Join the club and get help from a new friend. Good luck. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Anyone able to help with my problem?  Lately I have been finding it difficult to get my leaders to lay down reasonably straight no matter what size or kind of fly I am fishing.  At times I am able to accomplish this by timing my cast (by accident of course) so that the leader hits the water just as it unrolls from the forward cast.  This technique plays havoc with a soft presentation though! Jay Kidwell

Try stopping your rod on your forward cast,this will exert enough power for your tip to turn your line over. Practice false casting with a piece of yarn in lieu of a fly on your tippet and make an effort to stop your rod on the forward cast at about 10 o’clock-this will help. Fred

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.. the problem is with the fonts in netscape … it seems to pick up a wierd font when setting it up.. especially the earlier netscapes. go into the fonts list and find the offending font and get rid of it, netscape then picks another … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – keyboarded:

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I will arrive in Hot Springs Aug. 10th and be fishing several days. Would appreciate any tips on good locations and what may be hatching or emerging at that time. Thank you. Don Whipple from Kansas

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I have fly fished for trout on the Little Red below the dam in Heber Springs, AR.  The trout feed on freshwater shrimp that are coming out of the bottom of the lake.  A mysis shrimp pattern imitates this. This is the only fly fishing I have done in AR, and there may be good places closer to Hot Springs than this.  Looking at my road atlas, I see no less than 10 rivers crossing the highways near Little Rock. My brother has done some fly fishing on the White River. Good Luck, Eric

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Question:

Will be in West Yellowstone mid July for about 5 days.  Want to fish a couple of days in the Park.  Any suggestions for areas to hike in 2-3 miles to escape the crowds?  Fly selection?  Current conditions? Thanks.  J. Rice

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Will be in West Yellowstone mid July for about 5 days.  Want to fish a couple of days in the Park.  Any suggestions for areas to hike in 2-3 miles to escape the crowds?  Fly selection?  Current conditions? Thanks.  J. Rice

Hi J.Rice A quick call to Bob Jacklin’s Fly Shop will get you up-to-the second information (406-646-7336).  The water conditions are changing so rapidly you need very current conditions.  A storm in the park can change everything overnight. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Hi, thanks for the response.  Is there any flats fishing in Costa Rica? I’m interested in a trip in 1997 .  Please e mail if possible. — Tim Ackerman "Everyone Lives Downstream"

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Hi, thanks for the response.  Is there any flats fishing in Costa Rica? I’m interested in a trip in 1997 .  Please e mail if possible. — Tim Ackerman "Everyone Lives Downstream"

Hi Tim, I believe that the east side is jungle rivers running to the ocean with tarpon and snook and the west coast is blue water with bill fish, dorado and wahoo. Lots of flats in other eastern Central American coasts. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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