Question:

I picked up 3 sets of different color at the Maryland Fair this last weekend (tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck).  Tom, try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color.  I have sulphurs, grey foxes, BWOs, tan caddis, black caddis, green caddis all just by messing with the wing color and body dubbing.  Lets see, 3 bucks for 2 feet makes about 150 flies vs the cost of grade A hackle for the same amount of flies. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend. –Stan

Response:

Stan writes: The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty,

and yours would resemble the original, as I have seen it. If the thread doesn’t show through the translucent, somewhat coarse snowshoe fur, the effect is different. Not wrong, per se, but different. The body should be on the thick side, but this is a "ratty" looking fly. I love snowshoe hare feet.

For duns, and caddis, you cannot beat the stuff for a low floating durable tie. With a few handling tricks, small duns and midges and such are easily done as well.                             Tom L

Response:

Frank writes: , try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color

you’re right, Frank. Just ask Willi, I’ve been doing this for years. The Usual was selected for the swap to bring the swappers, and myself, back to where the ideas originated. I had a snowshoe BWO in a swap two or three years back, and a caddis in a Compuserve swap waaaay back(my first encounter with Harry Mason). tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck

Interesting tie-in, she and her hubby nearly exhausted the supply of Fred Reese’s dun dyed snowshoe feet a few years back. Luckily, I had beaten them by a few days and got my half dozen feet in time. Fred was blown away by the sudden popularity of the stuff( this was 1993 or so,as I remember). Just did a rough count of current supplies before the annual order, still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                               Tom L

Response:

I’ve never used a dyed (vs dead) hare’s foot.  How are they and where can I get them and why do you need seven and a third yards (22 feet) of fur? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just did a rough count of current supplies before the annual order, still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                               Tom L

Response:

Frank writes: , try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color you’re right, Frank. Just ask Willi, I’ve been doing this for years. The Usual was selected for the swap to bring the swappers, and myself, back to where the ideas originated. I had a snowshoe BWO in a swap two or three years back, and a caddis in a Compuserve swap waaaay back(my first encounter with Harry Mason).

The use of Snowshoe Hare is much more of an Eastern thing. It’s uncommon to find any flies that use it in a shop in the Rockies. It’s a versatile material. I also did a Snowshoe pattern for the swap, a quill bodied emerger pattern. Willi

Response:

. God! I love this fly!!                              Tom L

and they are great fish-catchers too! Eugene K.

Response:

 still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                              Tom L

do you guys think the wing colour as important as the body colour?…I often use different bodies with the same wing, and really I only use light feet and dark feet.   Eugene K.

Response:

(snips) The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty, the other two guys couldn’t get the fur to dub at all and used beaver dubbing. For demonstration purposes, I put one of mine in a glass of water, dunking it to make sure it was through the surface tension, and it was still floating like a cork 4 hours later.  I love snowshoe hare feet.  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend.

Not that I’m planning on tying, but what other materials will float easily and well?  I’d think that poodle hair, as they were once cold water retrievers, would be pretty good. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Frank,   Dyed dun is pretty easy to find from many of the larger material houses. The other colors are less frequent. I buy them from Fred Reese’s Trout Shop, in PA., who has specialized in them for a while. You ask: why do you need seven and a third yards (22 feet) of fur?

for the same reason I have a cedar chest full of rooster pelts…just like having them around. Seriously, though, most of the feet on hand have been chopped through a bit, maybe 5 or 6 are completely intact.                              Tom L

Response:

tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck Interesting tie-in, she and her hubby nearly exhausted the supply of Fred Reese’s dun dyed snowshoe feet a few years back. Luckily, I had beaten them by a few days and got my half dozen feet in time.

Ok, so I finally get the opportunity to swing by Fred Reese’s place to pick up some spade hackle…. the stuff you were waving in front of me at the clave last year. A large bag for just $5.00 you say.  Well, we picked through his stock and could only find two pieces suitable for tailing sulphurs.  You exhausted his supply of spade hackle.  :-( Dave

Response:

Dave,   The source I cited for spade hackle is Collins Hackle Farm in NY. Charlie Collins is listed at the back advertising section of most major fly tying/fishing mags. Also, he can be spotted in person at the upcoming Somerset show. I wasn’t even aware of Reese’s selling the stuff…but, it is always fun to poke around their supply, isn’t it?                               Tom L

Response:

Someday I’d like to learn to tie perfect dry flies like your’s Tom. Awesome. bruce h

Response:

you guys embarrass me….thanks for all the kind words. Can’t wait to hear the response to these Usuals I am tying for the swap! This is one of those flys, at least for me, that is tyed wrong if it looks organized at all. I am gazing at a butter tub that looks like a small rodent exploded in a pile of hooks(contains 50 flies). God! I love this fly!!                               Tom L

Response:

Someday I’d like to learn to tie perfect dry flies like your’s Tom. Awesome.

Well, those little midge thingies are perfect too Bruce.  As far as we can tell!  heh heh

Response:

Tom: We tied Usuals at my tying club this week – two really excellent tiers, me (intermediate at best) and another two guys who range from beginner to intermediate depending on material.  It’s interesting to see how 5 people in the same room tying the same pattern will come up with vastly different flies.  A lot of depends on skill, some on expectation of what a fly should look like.   The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty, the other two guys couldn’t get the fur to dub at all and used beaver dubbing. For demonstration purposes, I put one of mine in a glass of water, dunking it to make sure it was through the surface tension, and it was still floating like a cork 4 hours later.  I love snowshoe hare feet.  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend. I’m really looking forward to seeing the other three examples in this swap. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you guys embarrass me….thanks for all the kind words. Can’t wait to hear the response to these Usuals I am tying for the swap! This is one of those flys, at least for me, that is tyed wrong if it looks organized at all. I am gazing at a butter tub that looks like a small rodent exploded in a pile of hooks(contains 50 flies). God! I love this fly!!                               Tom L

Response:

Tom: I can send you the html and images in a zip any time you want it.  Feel free to give out the url in the meantime to clavesters. See you at Penns!  Jim Lafley is coming again too (even though he said something last night about 4 days…).  If anybody else from Mass. wants to carpool get in touch by email. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan,   Bless you! AOL’s server is constantly screwed up, making getting to my site unreliable(watta surprise,eh?). If you can hang onto the layout for me, I would appreciate it, as it is a more efficient size, it seems, should I want to add stuff to my site.                               Tom L

Response:

Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.    Frank Reid

Here’s the URL for Flyfisher’s Paradise, a shop between Bellefonte and State College:    http://www.flyfishersparadise.com/ They provide hatch info ever week during the season.  Click on "Streams" at the bottom of the site; then click on the stream you want to know about. Click on "Articles" for patterns and tying instructions. vince norris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly (2) "Cripple" spidery-looking something (3) Elk Hair Caddis (4) March Brown (1) pheasant tail nymph (2) stonefly nymph (3) Colornel Sander’s Corn Kernal –Steve

Response:

Be careful,  if the climate is different, so will be the flies….sometimes very significantly.  Not so much with the nymphs of course, but the surface hatches. I’ve found that the Penn’s trout tend to be taking the newer arrivals.  So try to ask around, and find out what has been coming off, listening for what has just started,  when I see the 7 or 8 different species on the water, in varying sizes,  I’ll try that first.  The bug that is new the Clave week in May is usually the sulphur (in one size or another), but could also be March Brown Spinners,  Sulphur Spinners, Tan Caddis, Chocolate Caddis, Green Caddis, Grey Fox (duns or spinners), and some years the Light Cahill and Green Drake (but this is remote). If all else fails, remember the electric shocking equipment, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly Same here – should have multiple styles! (including emerger)  So when Tom and DavePA etc. chime in with their favorite pattern, don’t pick one, pick ‘em all (1) pheasant tail nymph Works as a sulphur nymph

Response:

Okie dokey folks.  I have a couple of folks here that will be attending Penns that have never been there before.  They are interested in tying flies for the clave fishing.  I couldn’t find the link to the message from last year indicating which flies are best.  I did find the link to the feathered hook, but, as usual, not enough info. Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.     Frank Reid

Response:

Tom Littleton posted some on his web site last year (which I filched for my reference – hope you don’t mind Tom…). You can find copies of Tom’s photos at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okie dokey folks.  I have a couple of folks here that will be attending Penns that have never been there before.  They are interested in tying flies for the clave fishing.  I couldn’t find the link to the message from last year indicating which flies are best.  I did find the link to the feathered hook, but, as usual, not enough info. Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.     Frank Reid

Response:

Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.

Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly (2) "Cripple" spidery-looking something (3) Elk Hair Caddis (4) March Brown (1) pheasant tail nymph (2) stonefly nymph Since the magical hatch portion the day–the time when the fish are supposedly keyed into an exact pattern, size, and hook stye–lasts a grand total of about half an hour, the rest of the time you’re just searching. And another tidbit from someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about but has an opinion nonetheless… During the daytime, you’ll have the most success if you can switch easily from nymphs to dries and back. I saw very few risers during the daytime, but when I *did* see them (mostly taking stuff from the foam line in eddies it seemed) they were very fun to target and catch. –Steve

Response:

Tom Littleton posted some on his web site last year (which I filched for my reference – hope you don’t mind Tom…). You can find copies of Tom’s photos at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/

I remember now seeing this page last year and thinking "God, what beautifully tied flies."  Advancing decrepitude or some damn thing prevented me from bookmarking it then.  Thanks for the link.  They’re still beautiful. JR

Response:

Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly

Same here – should have multiple styles! (including emerger)  So when Tom and DavePA etc. chime in with their favorite pattern, don’t pick one, pick ‘em all (1) pheasant tail nymph

Works as a sulphur nymph

Response:

Stan,   Bless you! AOL’s server is constantly screwed up, making getting to my site unreliable(watta surprise,eh?). If you can hang onto the layout for me, I would appreciate it, as it is a more efficient size, it seems, should I want to add stuff to my site.                               Tom L

Response:

Question:

Hi John, there is a great deal of help available on the net.  A couple of these sites should be of considerable help to you with basic stuff. Most of them have specific beginners sections.  If you have trouble with any of the terms etc, then just post to the group again, somebody will help you. Here are the URL

Question:

The fall is a great time for fishing the West. My wife and I do our annual regular 2 week car bum in Sept/Oct. Best time for avoiding crowds and in the NW in particular is argueably the best season. Suggest you read Ted Leason’s book for a rundown on the basics of year rounded fishing in the NW. Dave

Hey George, I don’t think David is any sort of traitor. Hell, I’ve bummed around a good part of Idaho for the last 15 years, kayaking and fishing in the summer. I’ve also been on this newsgroup since quite a while before you started posting here. I don’t post much now because I’m making my own bamboo rods and don’t intend to go the Bastard route, I’ve had my fill of the C&R debate so mainly I lurk now with an occasional comment. Hell man, I even have a bottle of Gink on my vest!! Watch out, I may even drop in on your facility unannounced one day! Cheers. Jon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought I’d probe you guys for a few suggestions. My wife and I are going out west in early fall to scope out some property. As part of this trip, we want to take a week for flyfishing (both are avid ff). I am looking for some suggestions as to good places to try. We have fished Montana extensively in the summer but never in the fall. We figured we could go to the Red Lodge or Bozeman area and bum around or perhaps get a guide to float the Yellowstone. Is this a good time (or even worthwhile) to float the Yellowstone (I figure around the big bend area might be best; this is one river we have never fished)? Suggestions? Our other thought is to go to Oregon. We have friends there and could combine the goals of the trip. Again, is this a decent time to go and where would you suggest? We have some free airline tickets coming up and are pretty flexible. The main thing we want to avoid is being shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of people (its OK for us to be around people, I just would prefer to avoid being in a crowd of urban maniacs going after some standard steelhead run near a metropolitan area, if you know what I mean). Anyway, all suggestions are appreciated. We are both pretty comfortable with doing exploratories and the general wilderness adventure scene. I know this request is pretty general. Its the fall season fishing that we are relatively unfamiliar with out there. Thanks for any input. Jon McAnulty

–Jon, If you have never fished the Deschutes river (Oregon) in the fall your missing one of the best rivers in the world to catch steelhead on a fly on the surface.   There will be plenty of room without many fishermen if you go in Oct.   October is when the big "B" class Idaho fish enter the river (15-25lb).   A 20lb steelhead in a fast moving river on a fly rod is a fish of a life time.   Drop me a line if you want more info. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The full title is "The Habit of Rivers," (Reflections on Trout Streams and Fly Fishing), by Ted Leeson. Its literate and then some, and a useful perspective on NW fishing. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the reply. Any title on that book? I suspect it is obvious but an exact title would help as I will probably have to order it. Thanks again. Jon

Response:

The fall is a great time for fishing the West. My wife and I do our annual regular 2 week car bum in Sept/Oct. Best time for avoiding crowds and in the NW in particular is argueably the best season. Suggest you read Ted Leason’s book for a rundown on the basics of year rounded fishing in the NW. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought I’d probe you guys for a few suggestions. My wife and I are going out west in early fall to scope out some property. As part of this trip, we want to take a week for flyfishing (both are avid ff). I am looking for some suggestions as to good places to try. We have fished Montana extensively in the summer but never in the fall. We figured we could go to the Red Lodge or Bozeman area and bum around or perhaps get a guide to float the Yellowstone. Is this a good time (or even worthwhile) to float the Yellowstone (I figure around the big bend area might be best; this is one river we have never fished)? Suggestions? Our other thought is to go to Oregon. We have friends there and could combine the goals of the trip. Again, is this a decent time to go and where would you suggest? We have some free airline tickets coming up and are pretty flexible. The main thing we want to avoid is being shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of people (its OK for us to be around people, I just would prefer to avoid being in a crowd of urban maniacs going after some standard steelhead run near a metropolitan area, if you know what I mean). Anyway, all suggestions are appreciated. We are both pretty comfortable with doing exploratories and the general wilderness adventure scene. I know this request is pretty general. Its the fall season fishing that we are relatively unfamiliar with out there. Thanks for any input. Jon McAnulty

– Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Hi John, Steffen Rods are built by the Steffen brothers, their company is located in Northern Arizona near Lee’s Ferry.  They build extremely fine rods. You may have gotten that one for a steal, if it was cheap in a swap meet.  These rods should easily compare to Scott, Sage, Loomis, etc. in quality. The only difference, naturally is the action of the rod.  Steffen Bro’s do build their own blanks. These rods are not too well known, because the boys aren’t very dependable in shipping rods out to their retailers. Certain times of the year, fishing on Lee’s Ferry is more important than making an income.  A lot of retailers will not stock their rods for this reason. Although, sometimes I have to agree with their attitude about fishing before working. It must depend on how much cash you have in the bank. Good Luck Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale.  The seller didn’t know the history of it.  It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co.  The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply.  Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.?  Are they still in business?  Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company?  Any help you can give me would be appreciated.  BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.?  Are they still in business?  Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? John Woodling Sacramento, CA

John; Steffen Rod Co. is based in Arizona, but I’m not sure of the town. Their rods are much more popular out there in the West than they are here in the East. However, they are gaining in popularity.  They "roll their own" at Steffen.  They are very competent rods.  They are certainly still in business, but you don’t hear much about them.  They forego national advertising to keep their overhead at a minimum.  They also don’t offer an unlimited warrantee, but will repair rods at a reasonable price.  Right now, they only offer 2 series of rods.  One is like yours and the other is sanded and with fancier hardware, but it’s the same rod, essentially.  We have a guy here in eastern PA who sells their stuff.  Very good casting rods for $250.  Compared to my Scott Alpha, they are significantly slower; not that it is a *bad* thing. Jason Beary

Response:

I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale.  The seller didn’t know the history of it.  It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co.  The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply.  Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.?  Are they still in business?  Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company?  Any help you can give me would be appreciated.  BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Dear John: Mark Steffen, of Steffen Brothers, lives in Flagstaff, Arizona. He sells his rods locally through Peace Surplus Sporting Stores, 779-4521. Mark is the current President of the our local fly fishing group…. Northern Arizona Flycasters, Inc. Besides making great rods, he is an all around good guy, hardcore fisherman and fly fishing activist. Give him a call if you have any questions. Dawson Henderson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale.  The seller didn’t know the history of it.  It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co.  The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply.  Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.?  Are they still in business?  Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company?  Any help you can give me would be appreciated.  BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA Dear John: Mark Steffen, of Steffen Brothers, lives in Flagstaff, Arizona. He sells his rods locally through Peace Surplus Sporting Stores, 779-4521. Mark is the current President of the our local fly fishing group…. Northern Arizona Flycasters, Inc. Besides making great rods, he is an all around good guy, hardcore fisherman and fly fishing activist. Give him a call if you have any questions. Dawson Henderson

I have fished Steffen steelhead (8wt) and 4-piece 6-wt rods for years. They are marvelous. I use the 4-piece in New Zealand just about every day for 4-6 week trips and find that it handles innumerable large fish, horrendous wind, and roll-casting very heavy nymphs on the Tongariro like no other rod.The Midge in Los Altos Calif carries the rods. If you have trouble with a Steffen, the maker repairs them very well. Try it, you’ll like it!!

Response:

Hi ! Does anybody know, how to purchase one of these rods here in europe witout knowing a pal who travels the US frequently ?? TIA

Response:

I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale.  The seller didn’t know the history of it.  It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co.  The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply.  Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.?  Are they still in business?  Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company?  Any help you can give me would be appreciated.  BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

Question:

We’re planning a trip to St. Barth’s in May and wondered about the fly fishing possibilities.  Any suggestions, anyone?

Response:

whenever i travelled to the caribbean i would bring along the spinning gear (now into flyfishing)…. i caught baby tarpon on st.maarten and ventured over to st.barts….i didnt have too much luck there but heard from some people there that there are tarpon there at the right time of year…whenever that is…so i assume the other normal fishing will apply….ie. barracuda and bonefish etc…i think it would be worth the effort….let me know how you do ok   frank in brrrboston

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Question:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance.

You have to drive at least a hundred miles.  If you don’t want to drive, better stay where you are. Jim

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. — I’m haunted by waters. Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html<head</head<BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"<p<font size=3D2 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"If I moved to Portland are the reports = of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water = without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the = haunted by waters.</p </font</body</html

Response:

<HTML<BODY

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE&nbsp; <BR <BR<FONT FACE="Arial"<FONT COLOR="#000000"<FONT SIZE=-1If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds?</FONT</FONT</FONT <BR </BLOCKQUOTE I drive 300 miles to beat the crowds, although sometimes good water can be found close-in. <BR <BR– <BRcsthomas </BODY </HTML

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. If you go into the coast range, you’ll find a LOT less people. With the Cascades so close, people seem to forget that there’s another set of mountains to the West. Best of Luck,      - Ken

Hmmm, good point!  While everyone is heading east, you could go west and fish the Wilson, Nestucca, etc. -Burton — 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance.

If you go into the coast range, you’ll find a LOT less people. With the Cascades so close, people seem to forget that there’s another set of mountains to the West. Best of Luck,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering http://www.ece.orst.edu/~janikk

Response:

If I moved to Portland are the reports of outstanding fishing true? Put another way, can I found nice water without crowds nearby or do I have to drive 100 miles plus to beat the crowds? Thanks in advance. — I’m haunted by waters.

You can drive a hundred miles and stand in the Deschutes surrounded by hundreds of people.  Or you can drive 20 miles and fish by yourself. Nope, not telling where.  It’s just like anywhere else.  Them that can scout will find some good, unpopulated spots.  Them that can’t, won’t.

Response:

You still have to drive awhile for good fishing.  The Deschutes is about 2 hours.  Forget about uncrowded areas unless you like to hike.  I lived there for 4 years and just moved to AZ.

Response:

But it IS about 100 miles, or at least a couple of hours on back 2-lane roads to get there.  And there aren’t a LOT of trout waters west of Portland.  It’s surprising that trout are not so easy to find close to Portland.  I think (not by any means well acquainted with the area) by repute the best good water anywhere near Portland is to the southeast in the small streams around the Bull of the Woods area.  Anybody got an informed opinion on this? — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know an e-mail address for Gary or Jason Borger? I would like to ask one of them a question about fly lines.

Don’t know an e-mail address, but if you look on the back of one of his videos you will find a phone number for his company.  I called them one time regarding availability of one of their titles and Gary answered the phone.  Worth a shot.  You can probably also reach him (although in a round about way) through Thomas & Thomas rods.                                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Borger don’t post… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Borger don’t post… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Who can blame him! Ralph H

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Jasons E-mail is listed at www.Flyfishamerica.com

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Borger don’t post… — TimW Halfordian Golfer Who can blame him!

all of us that do…for starters… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Does anyone know an e-mail address for Gary or Jason Borger? I would like to ask one of them a question about fly lines. Thanks! Steve Rosenblum

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  Does anyone know an e-mail address for Gary or Jason Borger? I would   like to ask one of them a question about fly lines.   Thanks!   Steve Rosenblum  Both can be reached through Flyfishers Online at www.flyfishers.com PFY

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Question:

I’m making my first trip to the Green River next week and have never fished it before.  We’ll be hitting the area in Utah where it dumps out of Flaming Gorge.  Any advice or suggestions for a beginner on this river? Are there any areas slow  (and safe) enough for a float tube?

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I’m making my first trip to the Green River next week and have never fished it before.  We’ll be hitting the area in Utah where it dumps out of Flaming Gorge.  Any advice or suggestions for a beginner on this river? Are there any areas slow  (and safe) enough for a float tube?

        You should get a guide the first day, so you can get a feel for the river. I just got back from there, and the fishing was great. They raised the water though, but should get good again in a day or so, after the fish settle down to the new flows. There’s a baetis hatch around 2 pm, and if the weather is cloudy and a little chilly, the hatch can go to 5 pm or so. If it’s a nice day, it goes to about 3:30 to 4 pm. I would not use your belly boat at the levels the river is right now, except to ferry to the other side. There are a couple of rapids that you wouldn’t want to go through in the belly boat at this level, but if you know where there at, you can get out and walk around them.         Midges are good most of the day, with top feeders stack up on the banks. Good dry fly fishing if the winds not blowing.         Have fun, T Wigs.

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Hire a good guide.  Floating the Green is excellent.  PMD and BWO are good bets, along with pheasant tail nymphs and scuds, Griffith’s Gnats always work. One thing to remember, if you can see your fly on the water, it’s too big.

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Question:

I was in Indonesia and Thailand two years ago but didn’t bring my rod. Going back for my honeymoon…any advice?   I did lots of snorkeling but looking for recommendations…flies, places. Will trade for good fishing stories and east coast goodies. Dan Foster Dan Foster

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I was in Indonesia and Thailand two years ago but didn’t bring my rod. Going back for my honeymoon…any advice?  

Yeah, don’t forget your rod…. — | PO Box 1510      | MCI:   mnewman (333-1196) | Hell is   | | Saipan MP 96950  | Phone: +(670)234-7726     | Saipan?   | | Mariana Islands  | FAX:   +(670)234-3022     |           |

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Question:

         My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,    innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent    on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with    a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.             My list of major sell-outs would include:-                  the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses           (you get the message) To the ones underlined (using "^"): I do not recall that they _ever_ pretended to be "alternative" at any time. They were _always_ mainstream from the outset. By this technicality and by your reasoning, they cannot be sellouts, since none of them were ever "innovative" or "dangerous" by your (and my own) criteria at any time in their carreers, in my opinion.  

        I stand corrected, on re-reading what I had written I can see that I had      slipped out of context for a while. I think I went away from the subject      (i.e. "alternative" music) and instead lingered on the sell-out topic.         What I tried to say (not very clearly) is that these people had made a      large quantity of good music that amassed them a very large fan-base, but when       their music quality dropped to a sub-standard level their record sales        (and hence their income) stayed at a high level due to media hype.

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        Personally I think Nevermind was pretty much a sellout album, with me it hasen’t stood the test of time, or maybe it was just overplayed too much. — Richard Stride… ‘Master Myoclonis Meets Mephisto’

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[Stuff Deleted ...] To the "alternative" loser,   I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory     -Isn’t this a contradiction, surely you’ve categorised alternative music.     I can’t speak for people in America, but in England "alternative" music is just   that – an alternative. It’s not a type of music, you don’t listen to a song and   think "Oh yeah, that’s alternative". It’s a category into which you can slot   many types, styles and fashions – i.e. Punk, Metal, Grunge, crusty, indie etc, etc.

Same here in Canada. And I get annoyed over such interpretations of "alternative" for the same reasons.          My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,    innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent    on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with    a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.             My list of major sell-outs would include:-                  the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses

          (you get the message)

To the ones underlined (using "^"): I do not recall that they _ever_ pretended to be "alternative" at any time. They were _always_ mainstream from the outset. By this technicality and by your reasoning, they cannot be sellouts, since none of them were ever "innovative" or "dangerous" by your (and my own) criteria at any time in their carreers, in my opinion.  Sure, the Stones began their carreers with much controversy and were known as "the Bad Boys of rock and roll" and still are; but IMO, they were merely attracting attention to themselves for commercial gain and success based on the free publicity of the news media. Their "cock-rock" musical style hasn’t changed in the past 30 years, qualifying them as probably more "conservative", and less versatile, IMO, than Frank Sinatra. Same for Madonna’s "cunt-rock" style. The unchanging nature of her music kind of ranks up there with Marie Osmond. BTW, you can also add Paul Simon, and most "resurrected" ’60s rock groups, like Starship (the most extreme example), The Greatful Dead, CSN&Y, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton (all playing it safe to a lesser extent), and Elton John (another extreme example — recall 11-17-70, Empty Sky, Yellowbrick Road & compare with ANYTHING he’s done since 1980). —

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Hiya, Could someone help me make an informed decision and post the track listing for the latest Pavement album. Thanks, E. |                                 Eric J.                                     |

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        Where the hell has anyone seen a ripped sweater for $300 for crissake!?!?  This I gotta see…js

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How do you think I must feel? I’ve been listening to snotty nosed little dweebs whining about poser’s since grade 10. Ten years ago.

wow, you were in the 10th grade in ‘83, me too.  do you remember the really bad post-punk bands of the day.  too bad i missed out on the poser bashing.  you know what’s really funny:  i still were the same clothes i did then.  then i was called a dirt-boy, now you can buy a ripped sweater for $300.  go figger. —                                   Jeff Scott

–

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To all the "alternative" losers,         I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.         -Joanna

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all the "alternative" losers,    I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.    -Joanna

yes!!! i posted an article to this effect a little while ago. i thought the whole idea of the mindset that this newsgroup is supposed to represent was being open to new things. lets stop bitching about who liked what groups when, and what groups have sold out because they need to make a living. lets start discussing music for what it is… music. its not grunge, its not alternative, its not rock, its not punk, and its not even disco. its fucking music. those terms are good as catagories for easier identification. kind of like male and female. that is all they are. what matters is the music. burnt

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How do you think I must feel? I’ve been listening to snotty nosed little dweebs whining about poser’s since grade 10. Ten years ago. —                                    Jeff Scott

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all the "alternative" losers,    I have a little news for you.  You all seem to think that you are just the coolest calling bands sell-outs and making fun of all the ‘grunge’ dressers.  I’ve been sitting here reading your little arguementative articles and I think you’re all full of crap.  I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory and just because some of my favorie bands happen to have had maybe one album hit mainstream doesn’t mean that now I should change my taste in music.  It also doesn’t mean I won’t be attending Lollapalooza’s anymore.  Those were some of the best times of my life and will be for years to come (hopefully).  It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.  Maybe if you weren’t so close-minded you’d realize how stupid you really sound.  I didn’t post this to get a hostile response, only to make you think.  Really, you do sound like a bunch of losers. Sorry.    -Joanna

To the "alternative" loser,     I was listening to alternative music before it was grouped into a catagory      -Isn’t this a contradiction, surely you’ve categorised alternative music.      I can’t speak for people in America, but in England "alternative" music is just    that – an alternative. It’s not a type of music, you don’t listen to a song and    think "Oh yeah, that’s alternative". It’s a category into which you can slot    many types, styles and fashions – i.e. Punk, Metal, Grunge, crusty, indie etc, etc.          What it’s an alternative to is the "mainstream". This is nothing more than     an enourmous financial institution providing financial security and massive     wealth to many "rock stars". Corporate back-handers ensure radio and TV play     to boring, and safe music makers. These bands are of course not all guilty     many just using the extra spending powers to produce better music (mostly former     indie bands who have signed to majors).           My view on people who have sold out is someone who used to make good,     innovative, sometimes dangerous music who signed to a major and now seem intent     on making enourmous amounts of money playing dull, uninteresting music made with     a safe formula and relying on media hype to boost their income.              My list of major sell-outs would include:-                   the Rolling Stones, Genesis, M.Jackson, Miss Madonna, Guns ‘n’ Roses            (you get the message)            Bands who I think are getting dangerously close to sell-out time                    (their records are getting more and more boring):-                            U2, REM, and Simple Minds         There are countless bands I could add, but I’m not going to (so there).             I don’t think people can be critical of Nirvana yet as they haven’t        released any new material, everything they’ve released since Nevermind was        recorded before Nevermind. They could go on to write better songs      (like Mettalica have) they could progress back to their old (and less popular)   style which is more likely or they could come up with some absolute bollocks.                 Time will tell.           Meanwhile people’s opinion will come and go, birds will fly, fish will swim       and polar bears will do whatever it is polar bears do.          So my dear Joanna, let people say what they want, insults breed nothing but contempt and statements like,             It really turns my stomach to read about your opinions.          Don’t say much for freedom of speech, do they.                       Bye,                         Rob

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