Question:

The point is that when I type a string of ASCII characters, I expected (up until now) that my recipients would see that string of ASCII characters (font differences notwithstanding), and not some browser developer’s interpretation of it. Is it even possible to type accurately the character string "colon, hyphen, closing parenthesis" without the newfangled browser defaults converting it to a grinning jack-o-lantern?

Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do. –Stan

Response:

Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do.

Stupid me! Of course! Why didn’t I see that the first time?! Thanks for clearing that up, Stan! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

<SNIP Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do. –Stan

"A big yellow smiley, came and confused my old man". TL MC

Response:

When we had our discussion about "whining", I did a search and found a couple groups that also used "whining" in the same way you do. (I disagree with them too!)

Makes the score 3 to 1. This is turning out to be a good day after all What was interesting to me is that they had the same attitude toward the use of emoticons as they did to whining.

Will you be handing down *your* unique pronouncement on that issue in the near future, or do we have to use our imagination? /daytripper (This is getting…a bit weird….)

Response:

[artwork snipped] Looks like Betty Boop after a shark attack…

Response:

[artwork snipped] Looks like Betty Boop after a shark attack…

Naw, she was probably just….changed… ) …hmm…I wonder what rw’s program will do with this

Response:

Gee what happen went from a nice trip report to slamming smilies go figure only on ROFF                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post.

Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

Response:

You can change them back to ASCII ynder preferences/mail and newsgroups/message display.

Sure, but them I’ll have to get everyone else to change them, too. The point is that when I type a string of ASCII characters, I expected (up until now) that my recipients would see that string of ASCII characters (font differences notwithstanding), and not some browser developer’s interpretation of it. Is it even possible to type accurately the character string "colon, hyphen, closing parenthesis" without the newfangled browser defaults converting it to a grinning jack-o-lantern? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

When we had our discussion about "whining", I did a search and found a couple groups that also used "whining" in the same way you do. (I disagree with them too!) What was interesting to me is that they had the same attitude toward the use of emoticons as they did to whining. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post. Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

Hmm…I wonder what this’ll do to it…                       .                                :::::::….                `::                           .::::::::::::::::::..::::::::::::::.                    .:  .::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                   ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                   `:::::::::::::::“::::::::::: `::::::::::::::::::                    ::::::::::’zc$$$b`:’,cc,`:::’ :”“,c=`:::::::::::’                                `"""???$PFFF""    """"""""                         $$$$$P  `$.::::::::::::::::::         `"".$$$$$c               z$$$$$$"           .::::::::::::::::..:3$$$$P L               `?$$$"            ::::::::::::::::::::.?::: . $    .,,,,ccc$L ? ""             :::::::::::::::::::::::::::.c%  :$$ ?=?P$$$%                 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                              `:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                               ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                          :   :::::::::::::::::““,,,,zcc`””`                          :::::::::::’zc,,,,,cd$$ `???""""                               J$$$$$$"      $$$$$$F                               $$$$$P        ?$$$$$                              d$$$$F         <$$$$F                              $$$P"           $$$P                             J$$P            <$$$’                            .$$P             $$$$                           .$$$             `$$$L                          z$$$F            / "$$$                         $$$$%/           ( ;. "?.                        ;"?""            “  `.                          .- `                   `–’ ;-}…oops…<G…. R

Response:

After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post.

You can change them back to ASCII ynder preferences/mail and newsgroups/message display. Willi

Response:

        Had a *real* need to fish today.  So, I decided to swing up the valley and hit the river just below the Upper Souris refuge dam.  Had heard some of the small panfish were hitting. Sounded like just what the doctor ordered.         Now is where the folly starts — I have an 8′ 4 wt. in the car for when the urge to sneak off hits.  Listen to the weather report, and they say wind gusting to 30 mph.  Oh well, I figure, I can perhaps set up on a sheltered section, out of the wind, and still be able to cast in a halfways alright manner.  Get out of the car and string up.  Wind is channeling quite efficiently down the river.  Walk to the bank anyhow, and proceed to flail away…         Ugh.  Head is not screwed on straight.  Attempt to muscle the 4 wt.  Leader system is also too long, and can’t even turn the weighted #10 scud over with a roll cast.   Situation heading downhill rapidly.  Pick up and head to the small fishing pier to attempt to jig the scud from on high.  This works, after a fashion, unless one is exposed to the wind or a gust comes along and lifts the whole assembly out of the water, to hover several feet above it.         Decide to proceed upstream to a point area where I think I can cast downwind.  Oh yeah, the forward cast is downwind, but backcasts are problematic.  Gusts collapse the loop going back.  Wind dies a bit, and I proceed to muscle the thing again.  Not paying a lot of attention to my backcast either.  Can feel the line almost straightening behind me, and give it a quick snap forward, just as a gust kicks up.         Snap is the operative phrase, as I hear the line crack behind me.  Line goes forward and falls nicely on the water, but I figure the scud went flying when I cracked the whip.  Strip in, and find that not only is the scud gone, but the leader, braided loop, and about 6-8" of my fly line as well.         Reel up in disgust with myself.  As I’m packing the rod back up, hear something across the bank from me, and see a nice whitetail buck looking at me.  He gives a snort and bounds off into the thick brush.  Sit down on the bank and look around.  See a female Bittern fishing down the far bank.  She has no luck either, and flies off.  Look upstream and see a Pellican floating my way. Watch it sail on by.    None of the preceeding folly seems to matter all that much.  Would be quite content to sit there for awhile, just taking it all in.  See a small fish take something off the top with a splashing rise.  Think it was a perch, but it really doesn’t matter.  Life is good when one is on the water.  Unfortunately, it was time for me to head back home.         Fixed the business end of my fly line when I got home, and am ready to go again.  Forecast says much less wind tomorrow, so perhaps I will head back in the afternoon for awhile.  Lots of grasshoppers about.  If the wind will allow me to unleash the 4 wt. again, I might try some dry fly fishing with a suitable hopper tie.  Will throw the 7 wt. in the car in case the breeze is too stiff.  And if it’s blowing a gale again, I might just sit on the bank and watch the world go by. Todd

Response:

Question:

   wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

Give me a sec. gotta pull up a cushion and pour a wee dram . . . there OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.  Your second set of strips triggers the "it’s not dead and it’s escaping" response – the fly is nailed for sure on the second hit.  Executed properly, I seldom fail to get a solid hookup on the second strike. I lost two nice browns at the Blue Rock Hole – both were probably lightly hooked on the original strike as I had forgotten my own advice and did the old, "let’s fling it in the bush" strike.  If these fish had executed a stun strike, I would’ve hooked them on the outside of the mouth and lost them on the turn.  A slip strike usually doesn’t result in such a hookup – it’s slower, lighter, and moves the fly only a few inches.  If the fly is on the outside of the fish’s mouth, the odds of an external hookup are very low.  The fish isn’t spooked by the strike, rather, it’s aggression is probably heightened by the "struggles" of its "prey." Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

OK, you’re stripping in a streamer and BAM, a big hit.  The tendency will be to do the South Sauty heave and yank the fly about five or ten feet away from the fish.  Instead, keep the rod tip low and just give a sharp, short yank on the line.  If you don’t feel the fish, let everything go, count to three then put in a few short strips.  Odds are, he’ll turn and take it as soon as you start to strip a second time.  The fish isn’t aiming to swallow the fly on the first hit – it’s a killing strike, where he’ll turn and then leisurely swallow the dead minnow head first.

        good lord.  this requires far too much patience than i have to give. yfitons wayno  (somebody hand me that royal wulff…)

Response:

[a high and dirty snip] About high water and fish behaviour, my favourite high water story comes from one of the local fly shop owners.  When the Grand blew out a few years ago, he went up to check it out and found a flooded intersection with trout rising in the middle of it. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish.

I was using a type 6 line.  When I make the cross-current cast, I follow the line with the rod tip as far as I can to keep tension off the line.  During that portion of the drift, the line has the opportunity to sink.  In really fast water, I’ll add an upstream mend as the line hits the water.  Even a type 6 won’t get down if you have tension on the line right away. About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.   Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

Keep at it, sounds like you’re doing great as is. BTW, keep up the TRs as, thanks to my move and the kids, I probably won’t hit the water again till mid-late August.  Gotta live vicariously. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

About the flies, it could be differences in the way the fish hit the fly.  Grand River browns hit the head of the fly to stun it.  I was getting a lot brief hookups and some foul hookups on the opposite side of the fish’s face with long shanked hooks.   However, if you’re getting hookups in the front of the lower jaw, the fish are tail chasing the prey.  If you’re getting hookups but your landing rate is poor, then you’re in the same situation as me.  When you feel a strike on a short shank fly, strip-strike, don’t lift the rod tip.  If you don’t feel the fish after, let everything go so the fly flows drag free then tighten up and put in a couple of strips.  Odds are you’ll get a hookup on the second strike.

I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

Response:

if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way.

Boy do I know what you are talking about! I have been trying to get used to using a slip strike off and on for about 10 years now with only occasional success. I most often just raise the rod tip when fishing for trout or bluegills and try to use the slip strike for bass.The problem is that I catch a hell of a lot more trout and bluegill than I do bass and I love to see those small fish put a bend in the rod. Old habits are sure hard to break! Big Dale

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at some of the flies you traded me before doing some tying. I keep them as samples and tie from them. I was comparing the short shanked ones you tied to the long shanked ones. The short shanked ones are VERY short and the long shanked ones are VERY long, in relationship to the length of the wing. I had tied some up on hooks with shanks midway between the two. These worked well for me in terms of hookups. I will try the short shanked ones some more as I really like the way they look and the action they have in the water. However, I’m not sure if I can get used to doing a slip strike. Too many years doing things another way. Willi

I also use flies with the same proportions as you described – a mid wing shank.  The nice brown hooked at Blue Rock Hole, was on a middie. They are a good compromise if the short shank flies prove to be too short.  You’re right though, the short shank flies do have better action.   The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE! The long shanked hooks are mainly used for very large species, chinook, steelhead, pike, bass, but they can work for larger resident trout.  These fish tend to engulf a fly of that size and the longer shank will usually place the tippet outside of the fish’s mouth, thereby protecting it.  I’ve kept a Rangley hook fly (rainbow smelt 1/0 8X) that was bent into a pretzel by a big buck chinook. BTW, the weamer idea seems to be working real well.  I had only one small, brown trout weamer at Penns that I lost on a rock while fooling around with the spey rod.  Moments earlier, it had hooked a very nice fish (lost, of course.)  I’ve also hooked a number of steelies with them and there’s no reason not to believe that residents won’t take a shine to them either. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

The slip-stirke is fun though as you get two whacking great strikes from the fish, for the price of one.  The first time it works for you, it is magical.  The second strike seems somehow unreal after having missed the original hookup.  The fish is suddenly, THERE!

        wtf is this?  talking in tongues?  tell your ol buddy about "the slip strike", would you? yfitons wayno (never afraid to show one’’s ignorance)

Response:

Although it is the season of runoff with it’s very high muddy water, this season it has been runoff – runon. With the irrigation demands and the low snowpack, even during the highest flows, there has been enough clarity to catch fish. Water levels have been fluctuating from day to day and within a day, from somewhat high water to very high water. Generally, we have at least a month of unfishable water. This year although the high water makes for tough fishing, the river is fishable. In fact, the fishing has been pretty decent. The catching has been as varied as the flows. Some days, I’ll catch alot of small fish with nothing sizable. Other days, all the fish are good sized. One day I’ll throw streamers on a sinking line, the next day dries skittered across the surface and what’s working doesn’t seem to correlate with the flows. The best dry fly day I’ve had was during the highest flows. There has been a large yellow Mayfly coming off that I’ve never seen before probably because it usually comes off during unfishable runoff. I’ve been fishing an oversized yellow dry with a large florescent (for visibility) yellow soft hackle as a dropper. This has brought up the biggest fish I’ve been taking, bigger even than on streamers. I’ve been fishing it by casting to the edges of the fast water, letting it drift downstream and then dragging the pair across the current back to me with the dry bouncing on the surface. Virtually all of the fish have taken the dragging flies. Most have taken the soft hackle but I’ve gotten a number of savage takes on the dry. I usually miss the hookup but several of them took the emerger on the next few casts. What has been surprising to me is that the fish are coming up through several feet of strong current and heavily stained water for the flies. I think the motion may be an aid to them in seeing the flies. I got to watch Peter use one of his streamer techniques for a very short time at the Penn’s Clave (wish that conditions had been a bit better so I could have watched some more. I also missed seeing him work a spey rod) Anyway, my half assed imitation of this technique has been working reasonably well. (Peter, what sink rate line were you using at the Blue Rock Hole? I’m fishing similar depth and current flows and don’t feel I’m getting down deep enough.) However, I continue to get nothing but short strikes on Peter’s short shanked streamers. When I put on a standard length streamer, I’m hooking a decent percentage of the fish. Flows are even higher today, still reasonable visibility so? Willi

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Question:

Hello: Anyone have any experiences with either a RS2 or Usual? How fished? Sizes/colors for modest size streams? Any pix on the web for the Usual?   ( have found some on the RS2) Thanks, Bob

Response:

Bob, I can’t help with the RS2, but the Usual, in many variations, is one of my favorite patterns. I normally tie sizes #12 to #18, and occasionally smaller. This is a dry fly that is tyed with the fur from the rear feet of the Snowshoe Hare to form the wing and tail, and in the case of the original pattern, the body. Snowshoe Hare is available in a range of natural and dyed colors, so a number of insects can be imitated. This has become quite a popular pattern, so a search of the fly fishing web sites should turn up quite a bit of information, including photos. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Hi Bob, I don’t know the RS2 but I am familiar with the Usual.  The fly was invented by Francis Betters for the Ausable River in New York.  The section in front of his fly shop under Whiteface Mountain is fast flowing pocket water for which this fly is ideal – it floats like a cork.  However, I have caught fish in all kinds of water east and west, including fast-flowing freestone streams, limestone spring creeks and stillwaters (ponds) and by just about every technique, both casting to risers and prospecting.  A size 14 Usual is one of three dry flies from which I always select to start fishing; the other two being a size 12 Grey Fox Variant (Flick) and a size 12 Mini-muddler. I am not sure of the exact historical details, but the fly was popularized in Toronto by Bill Phillips who was a member of the Izaak Walton Fly Fishermen’s Club (now Izaak Walton Fly Fisher’s Club) in the 1970’s and who knew Betters and fished the Ausable.  Betters probably invented the fly in the late1960’s or early 1970’s.  For a long time the Usual was virtually a cult fly, unknown outside of the Adirondacks and a group of fly fishers around Toronto.  This was probably because snowshoe hare was so hard to find; almost nobody besides Betters sold the material.  My guess is that this was because snowshoe hare has no commercial value and most fly-tying furs then were byproducts of the fashion trade.  Betters probably trapped or shot his own animals for his flies.  Fortunately, snowshoe hare’s feet are now widely available, possibly because word of mouth growth in popularity of the Usual has made it feasible to trap them for the fly-tying market.  I believe you can even find them in Orvis shops now.  Make sure you use genuine snowshoe hare and do not even think of subtituting rabbit –  snowshoe hare has a very, very high content of natural oils and there is no real substitute.  I posted photographs of the fly on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing a while ago in response to another enquiry in this newsgroup but they might have expired by now.  If you don’t have any luck finding pictures on the web, I will be happy to e-mail them to you. Best regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Anyone have any experiences with either a RS2 or Usual? How fished? Sizes/colors for modest size streams? Any pix on the web for the Usual?   ( have found some on the RS2) Thanks, Bob

Response:

Question:

    I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.     I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

Response:

   I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.    I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

Hi Andrew, That pole is for ‘tule dippen’. You put about 8 to 10′ of heavy line on the eyelet with a bobber and hook. Install some protein (i.e.worm) and swing it out on to the water. When the bobber goes under, light up the barbecue. I think it is a big part of our fishing heritage. In many third world countries they fish with a can and line. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

   I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.    I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

AKA a ‘whacko’ pole ,,used here (AUS) for the taking of Barra and Jack around snags. Method is to secure some 80+ mono to the tip with a 3.0 longshank hook with the barb filed off. Attach one live prawn (at least #8) and lower gingerly  into the snag. The name I am not sure where it originates. Tis one of these: A. the sound created when the frustrated fisho hits the water with the pole repeatedly. B. the imagined feeling when a BarraTuesday hits. C. the clip over the ear you get when doin’ this out of season. D. all of the above Gilly No SEA too rough No Muff too tough Be UP and alive

Response:

Question:

I will be in New Mexico between November 6th and 19th.  I am planing to fish the San Juan.  Can anyone tell me how the fishing is that time of the year?  Are there other rivers that fish well in Nov?  Any suggestions regarding flies would also be appreciated.

Response:

I will be in New Mexico between November 6th and 19th.  I am planing to fish the San Juan.  Can anyone tell me how the fishing is that time of the year?  Are there other rivers that fish well in Nov?  Any suggestions regarding flies would also be appreciated.

The fishing on San Juan seems to never change! It is always excellent. Please dress for all weather types and chest waders are mandatory. The water is between 36 and 42 degrees. We also just had a cold front come through and cooled things off. Check out http://www.thereellife.com/reellife/ for the fishing reports of this area and for the San Juan. I maintain this site for the store it represents. T. Edwards

Response:

Question:

There is only one place in Guatemala, Iztapa. Pangas go for $300 per day with lunch and drinks, 31′ Bertrams around $800. There are hotels at around $15/ person, but they’re pretty scuzzy. You’re much better off with the best places at around $75 per night, double. You can get there by renting a car, a hired van or a bus, but you’ll waste a whole day by taking the bus. If you want more details call me at 516 668 2019. I can set up everything for you.   Gene Kelly

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I just got back from Guatemala and caught one sail on the fly rod. We caught eight on standard tackle the first day but we had my wifes cousins with us and I didn’t try the light tackle. The second and third days were slower and we had trouble with too many dolphin around. I arrange trips throughout Central America and can help you out. Give me a call at 516 668 2019 and I’ll give you all the details about the cheap way to go as well as the moderate way to go.                                 Gene Kelly

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Looking for any info on opportunities in Guat, particularly Pacific side. Would appreciate any advice, contaacts, starting points etc.

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: Looking for any info on opportunities in Guat, particularly Pacific side. : Would appreciate any advice, contaacts, starting points etc. Ken Johnson at Guatemala Unlimited has all the info and can make the arrangements. Guatemala Unlimited http://members.aol.com/guatemala1/html/guatunl.htm good luck, james

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Question:

Anybody have any suggestions on river/stream fishing for trout within an hour or so of Dublin?  I’m planning a weekend trip, and would love to know who to talk to or where to go. Thanks! –Preston

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Hi a freind of mine is going over there in two weeks I could info after that.PS I sell rods to a flyclub in Cork Ireland I don’t know if that is – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody have any suggestions on river/stream fishing for trout within an hour or so of Dublin?  I’m planning a weekend trip, and would love to know who to talk to or where to go. Thanks! –Preston

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Anybody have any suggestions on river/stream fishing for trout within an hour or so of Dublin?  I’m planning a weekend trip, and would love to know who to talk to or where to go. Thanks! –Preston

Hi Preston, Try the River Boyne, it has some great fishing for trout with the dry fly specially. It is about 1 hour north of Dublin and the area also has some great archaeological sites including the famous Newgrange monument. If you are in the area then be sure to get to see Newgrange. The August edition of "Trout and Salmon" has an article on the Boyne and included info on permits etc. If you can’t get a copy then the addresses that they printed for permits are as follows:- Navan Angling Club waters Permits 10 Punts per day from The Sports Den Trimgate Street Navan Trim, Athboy and District Angling Club waters Permits 5 Punts per day from Tourist Office Mill Street Trim or Gerard Lee Loman Street Trim I hope that this helps. Regards, Philip Blair. *** Nation Shall Peak Six Unto Nation. ***

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Question:

Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

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The North Umpqua River in Oregon is has stretches that are closed to boating between 6 p.m. and 10 a.m.  This seems to leave a reasonable amount of prime fishing time for the flyfisherpeople.  Despite this arrangement, I’ve had a fisherman demand that I tell him (at 5:30) whether there were any other boaters coming down the river after me as it I had some way of knowing.

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Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

As both a paddler and flyfisher in the smaller New Mexican Streams I prefer the following courses of action if possible.  Many times you see the fisher standing knee to hip deep in the water casting forward.  This leaves enough room to go behind them but make sure first they see you or you could get caught on the back cast.  If the fisher is standing on shore and you see they cannot make the cast all the way across stream then follow the opposite shoreline.  If they are on shore and they can cast across stream then follow the path as close to the fisher as possible.  Sometimes fisherman will get spooked by this course of action but if you wisper on the way by that you didn’t want to spook the fish they were casting to then then are usually appreciative.  I say wisper because even normal talk is enough to spook fish.  So if normal talk can then unnecessary paddle noise can too, so try to be stealthy when possible and don’t scream out "how’s the fishing" on the way by.  If the fisher feels you are trying to be sensitive to their needs through the 50 feet of water you are passing through then it usually avoids problems.  This is how I approach it but would like to here comments on how others do it short of haul your boat out and walk around because I don’t think I would do this as a kayaker – it’s my river too. -Allen Sansano

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The North Umpqua River in Oregon is has stretches that are closed to boating between 6 p.m. and 10 a.m.  This seems to leave a reasonable amount of prime fishing time for the flyfisherpeople.  

This might not seem so reasonable if the pale evening dun hatch started around 5:00.  Prime fishing time is when the fish are feeding. Despite this arrangement, I’ve had a fisherman demand that I tell him (at 5:30) whether there were any other boaters coming down the river after me as it I had some way of knowing.

Remember, kayakers on the river are much more maneuverable then a flyfisher that has waded out to a spot and is sight casting to a spooky brown trout sitting just behind a rock.  Most decent flyfishers just don’t flail away at the water in front of them but have a specific target in mind.   The best advice is to make sure that the person sees you.  When I encounter someone floating down the river while I’m flyfishing I’ll usually just stop casting and then motion them behind me and then say thanks as they pass for begin considerate. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

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RE: Fly Fishermen & Paddlers—-         Here in the NY/NJ area, it’s been our habit to try to pass behind the fisherman if possible, or at the very least not to cut him off from shore.         We do try to be quiet, as part of the fishing experience is the solitude.  I often ask how things are, though, and maybe pass on what we’d seen upstream.         I am no longer concerned about disturbing their fishing opportunities, since I’ve had 3 fishermen get a trout from under my canoe!  If we talk with fishermen, we often find that their catching improves after we arrive or pass through.  Evidently we stir up enough bottom food to liven things up.         In short, stay polite, respect their privacy, & pass through as soon as you can.         –Joe P.

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Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  (?)

Best is if they are in the same boat.  Nothing is better than an experienced paddler to tend a canoe while you fish, to keep you "in the bucket" above steelhead holes or move the canoe at the same rate as your line and fly for a perfect drift. But, that’s not what you’re fishing for. When I am fishing and canoes approach, I always like it if the paddler holds out of my casting range until I graciously stop my cast and motion for them to move through. I direct them behind or close to me so there is no chance for them to upset fish I am working. If the current is such that they cannot stop, it is in my best interest to understand where they’re headed and allow for this.  In general I have a lot more control mf myself and my line than most canoeists of their boats. I would not expect a canoeist to alter their course in a difficult river to avoid the water I am fishing anymore than I expect privacy in a popular destination.  My experience is that fish spooked by canoes usually resume feeding in minutes. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Just a thought that myself and others were having.  What is the best solution for Paddlers and Flyfishers to co-exist.  Should a paddler proceed close to a fisher as to not spook trout or other species on the other side of whatever body of water or should they proceed as far away from the casting path as possible.  What are the opinions of others out there?  This is just a question to better inform myself and any others that might be concerned about the issue.

Richard,        Intresting question, but I flyfish out of my canoe and enjoy the best of both worlds.                         Steve

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Many moons ago, on the AuSable in Michigan, there was a massive canoe hatch during the day.  All of my buddies cast deprecating remarks and retreated to there various campsites to commune with Jim or Jack (Beam or Daniels).  As an innocent just learning to fish for trout, I didn’t know that this was bad for fishing, so I just waved at the people as they went past and cast behind them. I found that this was the ONLY time I was able to catch fish.  Apparently the paddlers stirred up the nymphs which stirred up the fish which saw my fly and made me look good.   I probably caught more fish than the rest of the group combined on that trip. However, by the time I would get back to camp, Jim & Jack had their effects on my buddies, so I kept my little technique to myself.   I still don’t mind canoe hatches.  I have only had one incident where the paddlers tried unsuccessfully to avoid me due to lack of paddling ability and too much beer (mainly the latter).  I simply grabbed the gunwale of the canoe to steer them past me.  Unfortunately I grabbed it too hard and pushed the wrong way and the unfortunate drunks had a cold wet sobering up party.  I also decided that was an excellent time to leave the river and hunt another spot to fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The best advice is to make sure that the person sees you.  When I encounter someone floating down the river while I’m flyfishing I’ll usually just stop casting and then motion them behind me and then say thanks as they pass for begin considerate. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

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I just ran the Big Hole in Montana and spent another day wading while fly fishing so I got a chance to see both sides.  As you might expect, one technique doesn’t fit all situations.  Always stay quiet and aviod splashing.  When possible and you can tell which way they are casting, go behind the person fishing.  Obviously this only works if they are far enough from the bank to leave room to navagate.  I don’t know if going right next to them works too well.  Most casters who aren’t experts can’t cast that far any you run the risk of interfering with their line or worse, hitting them with the boat or an oar.  Best to simply try to avoid going right owver their hole and stay away from them.  Better yet, this sounds like a good opportunity to strike up a conversation with a real fisherman (or woman) on the river.  For the record, approximatly 10 boats passed me (most professionally guided) and all went quietly and courteously behind me.   JDDRio (Dan Dunlap)                                                       "…the recklessness of water…"   REM

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Question:

I have an upcoming business trip to Ann Arbor, MI (May 22-26) and am wondering whether to bring the rod…..   Can anybody on the net suggest some nice trout waters within a 2 hours radius of Ann Arbor?  (Thanks, but the Au Sable is too far away, some other time perhaps) Perhaps also a Ann Arbor fly shop? If I get some suggestions, I’d stay an extra day…. Please email, thanks, -PWM Nat’l Center for Atmos Research    voice:  (303) 497-1293 Scientific Computing Division     Consulting Office

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Fly-sishing for trout is out if you are looking to fish in a two hour radius of Ann Arbor.   If you want to fly-fish for Bass in the huron River, call MacGregor’s out doors on Mainstreet (an Orvis shop) and ask for Mac Richardson. He and his son know where to fish for small mouth on the Huron.   GaryLarry

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Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

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I am testing my posting capabilities.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

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One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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