Question:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away??

Do a web search on "lateral epicondylitis".  It’s not fun, that’s for sure.

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away??

A couple of years ago I got tennis elbow in my right (racquet) arm by digging up trees in my yard.  I stupidly didn’t take much time off of tennis, and also didn’t get any treatment.  It took a long time to go away, but I eventually recovered completely.  I think I helped the healing by careful weightlifting that didn’t aggravate it.  One guy I used to play tennis with got it pretty bad.  He’s had physical therapy and cortisone shots, and is still trying to recover. I’ve had pain in my left arm for the last couple of months that I can only attribute to golf.  It sounds like what you have.  During the summer I was hitting a lot of balls each week, and also doing some cross-training to maintain strength and flexibility and ward off injury.  I may have overdone the practice regimen a bit.  I have one more tournament to play on 10/20, then I’m planning on rest and rehab over the winter to get rid of the pain.   – cja

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Do a web search on "lateral epicondylitis".  It’s not fun, that’s for sure.

And if that happens to be your problem, ask your pharmacist for the type of "armband" (some look like a U-shaped clamp) that redirects vibration away from your elbow. It won’t cure you (only rest will do that) but at least will alleviate further pain.

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I am currently suffering from a (left) tennis elbow as a result of a too strong grip while playing in the rain. I am getting physiotherapy but have been told that it may take anywhere between 3 months and 2 years to heal. Rest seems to do the trick. Certainly no more golf for the foreseeable future… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

This is bad news.  I’ve worked through this in both elbows. Definitely take measures now, or it can get a lot worse.  The things I have done, that are finally getting me fixed, after a year, are: 1) Ice the elbow thoroughly after golf or other activities which make it sore. 2) Stretch the tendons before.  There are web sites out there which can give you the stretches. 3) Weight training of the forearm.  I use 12 lb dumbells now, had to start with 2 lb. You want to lay your arm across your knee, palm down, and flex the hand backwards towards your elbow.  Do 15 reps with what ever weight you can.  Then turn the hand over, palm up, and curl your wrist with the same weight.  Do three or four times a week. 4) I had to give up golf and fly fishing for two months.  I gave it up for three weeks and then went back, and really made things worse. 5) Ibuprofen 6) Get a tennis elbow support strap.  Your local drug store should have one. Wear this while golfing or when doing other things that subject the elbow to impact.  You wear it just below the elbow, on the fat part of your forearm. It distributes stress to the muscle lower in your arm. Hope that helps.  Don’t ignore this, or it can become chronic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

In addition to the excellent list of options below, I would taking Glucoseamaine Sulphate, which cured a very bad case of Tennis Elbow I had several years ago. would seem to take 60 days for benefits to appear. Cortisone shots help, but are not recommended until other treatments fail. — Bill Cochrane 416-284-8462

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is bad news.  I’ve worked through this in both elbows. Definitely take measures now, or it can get a lot worse.  The things I have done, that are finally getting me fixed, after a year, are: 1) Ice the elbow thoroughly after golf or other activities which make it sore. 2) Stretch the tendons before.  There are web sites out there which can give you the stretches. 3) Weight training of the forearm.  I use 12 lb dumbells now, had to start with 2 lb. You want to lay your arm across your knee, palm down, and flex the hand backwards towards your elbow.  Do 15 reps with what ever weight you can.  Then turn the hand over, palm up, and curl your wrist with the same weight.  Do three or four times a week. 4) I had to give up golf and fly fishing for two months.  I gave it up for three weeks and then went back, and really made things worse. 5) Ibuprofen 6) Get a tennis elbow support strap.  Your local drug store should have one. Wear this while golfing or when doing other things that subject the elbow to impact.  You wear it just below the elbow, on the fat part of your forearm. It distributes stress to the muscle lower in your arm. Hope that helps.  Don’t ignore this, or it can become chronic. Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

Question:

Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

Response:

Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

Nah, bugger the proprieties, take some wormss and sppinning gear. TL MC

Response:

"Jim McNinch" wrote… Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

There’s a chance to catch Northern Pike on the fly.  Give it a shot. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?.

It’s been about 25 years since I fished that area, but I remember some great evening fishing for Smallmouths with small poppers. Willi

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. That just will not do!  What’s a Reid report without a full Reid or even a partial.  Do better next time, OK?

Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW

Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Diagnostic niceties are irrelevant to the efficacy of a true panacea. Send help. Fast! Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote… Well now, he didn’t actually say which end was up though, did he?     gnagfloW Is this the scientific term for PMS? <bseg — Warren (who really should send something to help for sure now) Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Diagnostic niceties are irrelevant to the efficacy of a true panacea. Send help. Fast!

Egads!  You must be in a bad state indeed if you didn’t even both to answer the "scientific" question.  Send me your snail mail addy. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Glad to hear it Frank.  How’s the back doing? Scott

Response:

Going to see a new doc in a couple of hours.  I figured I would go fishing the day before so he can see me at my "best."  Problem is, I went fishing and I feel great!  Must be that hydrotherapy (or the fermented, low hydro, more alcohol therapy). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

wooly bugger.  As a matter of fact, they walked right through where the fish was.  The only comment out of them was "we’re just gonna cast a couple of times in this hole and then you can have it back."  Idiots.

LOL! The Patapsco’s got trout? Mu

Response:

The Patapsco’s got trout?

Uh….nope, not a one.  :-) Joe F.

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Yep, totally devoid of trout, in fact totally devoid of all fish and other forms of life. In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Patapsco’s got trout? Uh….nope, not a one.  :-) Joe F.

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In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps

And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is?

Privacy? Wolfgang honeymoon in the mosh pit…….mmmmm, nope, don’t think so.    

Response:

Just wanted her to see the stinking pit of armpit of humanity that is a Mid-Atlantic post industrial streambed before I take her fishing out where the Antelope roam. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact the entire drainage is uninhabital to humans or Gink….. Come on up some time so we can show you. Allen Epps And the reason you dragged your lovely bride into this pestulance ridden sink is? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren

Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Actually, the Patapsco is pretty forgiving.  Mostly gravel bottom and easy wading.  Stayed vertical the whole day.

That just will not do!  What’s a Reid report without a full Reid or even a partial.  Do better next time, OK? BTW, about the Bubba family – I’m glad they finally decided to move the States – you can keep ‘em. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Frank Reid wrote… The MD stands for doctor in this situation, ’cause I think I need one. Yesterday, 55 degrees, sunny and calm, today, mid 30’s, snow flurries and wind to 30 mph.  Yeh, I’m nuts, I went out on the wrong day and am feeling a bit worse for wear.

<snipped nice TR Nice to see you are back fishing and thanks for sharing it with us.  I have to ask though, did you take any falls?  For some reason your TRs do not seem complete without even the mention of a partial Reid. — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

The MD stands for doctor in this situation, ’cause I think I need one. Yesterday, 55 degrees, sunny and calm, today, mid 30’s, snow flurries and wind to 30 mph.  Yeh, I’m nuts, I went out on the wrong day and am feeling a bit worse for wear. Now that the preamble has rambled, here’s the scoop.  Daniels Dam on the Patapsco and downstream, water temp 42 and wind making any cast a challenge. I planned to meet with Allen and Moira Epps at the dam at 11 and, oops, gotta run to Wally World to get my license.  Get to the dam on time and Allen and Moira pull up as I’m pulling up my waders (I think the neoprene shrunk over the Winter, not a pretty sight). I tie on a #12 weighted, black wooly bugger with a bit of flash.  Allen has heard about a bit of a hatch so he ties on a dry with a brassie dropper. With the wind, anything that hatches will end up in the Georgia woods. I get a long range release and a couple of refusals within a 50 yards of the dam.  Areas pretty crowded so we walk downstream.  Allen misses one fish in a riffle so after a couple of hours, we finally get the clue that the fish have not moved out much since being stocked. I did have one 14 inch brown rise twice to my fly and was still working it when Bubba Power Bait, with Missus Bubba and their brother Bubba Two (he’s brother to both of them) decide to wade through where I’m am stipping the wooly bugger.  As a matter of fact, they walked right through where the fish was.  The only comment out of them was "we’re just gonna cast a couple of times in this hole and then you can have it back."  Idiots. We went back up the stream to the dam and I got a rainbow in the same spot that I had had the long range release earlier.  We decided to take a couple of casts at the dam pool and I started catching fish.  I set up at the outflow and dredged the nymph across it.  Allen and Moira left and I kept fishing till the wind got too much.  All in all, though the conditions were real tough, it was better than watching curling. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Question:

Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Bill: By the way, I am totally satisfied with Orvis Battenkill 7/8 for my summer steelhead fishing (I use a 10 foot 7 weight rod). It can handle any steelhead under 20 pounds; I have never hooked bigger ones (Well, I might have, then they all broke off). And it is very affordable. Now I need to replace my Lamson LP-7, which I have used with a 15 foot Spey rod. I lost two hot steelhead last spring because the Lamson went free spooling. Do you think Battenkill 10/11 is a good replacement? It needs to hold at least 150 yards of 30 pound backing with a 80 feet 10 weight DT line. Shinji on the Sky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

As with anything having to do with this sport, get the best you can afford. Metz, Spencer, and a half-dozen other growers often sell half capes for about the same price as the next grade down. Unless you are tying up to professional prodution a good #2 grade half will last through several seasons. Everyone resents the initial outlay of $$$ for a good cape, but the payoff is you don’t purchase them very often. Cabela’s and other supply houses also sell decent genetic necks that are quite useful, if limited in size and color.

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how bout finding some fishin’ buddies to split some necks with….that how I started out. some times stores will sell you split necks, if you take classes from them…they can always use the other half in class or for production tying. i agree with the other respondent, however, buy the best you can..you’ll be disappointed with the #3’s for drys size 14 and smaller. happy tying,….and DON"T GIVE UP!! there aren’t enuff of us out there! #:)#  Larry Medina

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Hoffman Super Saddle. Tons of real long feathers 10 down to 18 or so. Can tie two or three flies per feather.

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I need some new hackle, I’m getting better at tieing, and the hackle from the kit sucks.  I would like to hear some opinions on which Hackle to buy.   I am leaning towards Metz grade #3 in Grizzly from Orvis (29 bucks), anyone know of a better deal let me know.  Thanks. Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS! The factors that determine a hackle grade are numerous.  A neck or saddle are graded on the number of usable hackles, length of hackle, color, webbiness, stem diameter and uniformity of barbule lengtht. Now the problem arises when you compare hackles from two different companies.  A #2 Hoffman  may be better than a #1Metz metz.  Will a #3 be "softer"?  Well yes it may have a little, or a lot, more web depending on the company.  A #3 Hoffman will tie a good dry fly, but some of the other companies it may not.   The best thing to do is to inspect it carefully before you buy it.  Generally it can be said that you will get what you pay for. About 7 years ago I bought my first Hoffman saddle and now I am hooked.  I have currently 5 Hoffman saddles and 3 necks.  They are the only ones I use for my dries.  I know they are kinda expensive and I have a tight budget, but they are worth it.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to tie a good fly with a shitty feather.   Good Luck, Marty

Hi Marty, I agree. Hoffman is only company that has saddle hackle that is small and stiff for trout dries. In the old days, we always used rooster saddles for wets and rooster necks for dries. Henry Hoffman changed that. Metz saddles are better for wet flies as they don’t seem to be stiff enough for dries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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  <big snip   Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.

  Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10. Charlie

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writes: Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10.

I’m not yet as old as grandpa, but a size 16 would be the smallest you could find on a neck, they would be less than an inch long, and you would need to use at 3 or 4 feathers to tie one fly.  Thought I’d died and gone to heaven when I got my first Metz #2 brown neck.  I still have it but there are no feathers left smaller than #10.                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes:    Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!

Hi Dolph, As others have said here, none of the growers grade on the same standards.  But within a particular brand, there is a big difference between a #1 and a #3. Historically (this is all subject to change), the #1 necks had higher feather counts, smaller sizes, less webbing, longer length feathers (more useable feather), more flexible stems,  rounder stems, and denser barb counts on the feather (more barbs per inch).  Usually the biggest difference between 1 and 2’s is the quantity of small sizes – more of the 20 through 24 sizes on the #1’s.  Often the #1’s don’t have useable size 10 or 12 feathers because the stems are too thick.  #3 necks often have more webbing than 1’s or 2’s but not always.  Most often the biggest difference between 2’s and 3’s is that the stems on the 3’s are stiffer, and sometimes oblong instead of round.  This makes them very tough to wind. The grading system is hardly perfect and you can often look through a batch of #2’s and find some that are as good as the #1’s and #’3s that are as good as 2’s.   Nothing compares to the Hoffman’s necks.  Their #2’s are comparable to just about anyone elses #1’s.  The saddles make great dry fly tying feathers but primarily have only 2 sizes on them.  The necks have a wide assortment of sizes.  Haven’t seen any saddles that will compare with the Hoffman’s for dry flys. For wet flies I still use hen neck feathers.  They are shorter and have more rounded tips.  These are always webby and fold easily for that swept back look on wets.  Used to be able to find them easily and they were cheap.  Haven’t seen many in recent years.  Get them if you can find them, they are a far better choice for wet flies than rooster necks. We are spoiled today with the necks available.  I remember when indian capes were all that you could get.  I would take a trip over to Tigard, OR once in a while just to paw through Kaufmann’s capes.  Lance and Randall would go over to India each year, select their own stock, and bring it back.  Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.                          Good Tying,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.   Mr. G.

Good post.   I’m curious about your left/right suggestion.  I never make any effort to use feathers from opposite sides of the cape when double wrapping. Could you elaborate more on why this is useful? Regards, Joe.  

Response:

        Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR BUZZARD:  You happen to ask a question that I must rise too.  It is an excellent question.  May I add a few thoughts to get this discussion going? The observation is keen that different hackle manufacturers are indeed grading their hackles differently.  In fact, I doubt the lot of them ever got together and came up with a standard that rates necks from different companies to the same matching-game.  Everyone should give this some thought. Frankly Buzzard, you’re going to have to become a good judge of hackle/necks yourself.  There are certain things you must always pay attention too and I’m not about to cover them all here and now.  But each tier has certain patterns that require different advantages from feathers.  They can be softness, hardness, webbing, lack of webbing, short feathers, long feathers, narrow and wide, the combinations are endless and all feathers have a use in fly tying in one fly or another. Remembe this.  Never throw them away. Besides colors (any color) A feather for DRY FLY FISHING is different in desired aspects than hen feathers for wet flies, nymphs, streamers, etc. BUT!  A hen feather doesn’t necessarily mean it is a feather of less worth. I (personally) won’t settle for a number two neck when for a few dollars more I will be happier with a number one (1)!  The difference between a two and a one can be miles apart even though the numbers are next to each other.  Numbers mean different values to different people.  In grading feathers (Cock necks) throw the number system out the window. Waste it.  It means nothing between manufacturers, BUT with a specific manufacturer such as Hoffman necks, it can be a very reliable numbering system because of one factor.  Hoffman Products (now raised in Grand Junction Colorado) are CONSISTANT and TIGHT in quality.  Whereas; Metz Necks vary with the wind and each chicken season.  Quality always suffers when production increases beyond supervisory abilities.  Hate to say it, but its true. A DRY FLY FEATHER must have certain factors for each tier.  Length, evenly wide hackles, very little webbing, barbel stiffness, sharp tips (not curled on the ends, etc.) flexiable (not brittle) stems, maturity, (in look and feel)  and when you inspect a neck, make sure the skin isn’t brittle so it will crack when bent a little.  (Use some gink on the skin back to keep it from drying out.  Excellent for this, incidently.  And please everyone, don’t slam me for offering a friendly fact) So, basically, today . . .  because of neck retail prices, the trend is splitting a Hoffman neck.  When you buy a split, you are getting only right handed or left  handed bends in feathers.  When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.  So, what I’m saying, is . . . if at all possible, always buy the complete neck if its financially comfortable or possible. I’ll let everyone take it from here. Mr. G.         Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

A good place to stay on the Big Horn is the Cottonwood Camp.  They are located below Ft. Smith near Three Mile. There units are small campers or converted camper bus.  Shower and store facilities at the site.  Cost was $10.00 per person per night.  Couldn’t beat the cost or the hospitality.  Enjoy!!

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Al, I’m going to be in Bozeman next weekend, Friday thru Monday, (August 1-4).  Can you recommend a guide for nearby waters?  How about flies for this time of year? Thanks, Bob McAnulty PS:  Will you also forward address, phone number, hours info on your shop? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated.

Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

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snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

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Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

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Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

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It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

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alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

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No, but there’s a river in Toldedo Spain that looked kind of "troutish"In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

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Try contacting Cantabrian Travel Ltd. 220 NActon Road, Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 9JN Tel 01473 71743 Fax 01473 272571 The proprietor arranges holiday accomodation in Spain and fishing permits.  He appears to be a fly fisherman and seems to know a bit about it, he suggested that for when we are going the permit would be a waste of time and money as the rivers would be very low so seems to know his stuff – and is an honest travel agent ;-o

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Anyone have any info or sources for info on flyfishing in the Pyrenees — either in France or in Spain? Steven Locke, M.D. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care 617-859-5415 voice 617-527-3343 fax

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I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.  Anyone have this info, please reply.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

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<<I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.  Anyone have this info, please reply.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

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I lost the post regarding information on the classes offered in Sept/Oct regarding the Striped Bass in Frank’s Tract.   I believe the classes were around $125. Thanks,   Howard

It was from Fish First in Albany – 510/526-1937.  Begins early Oct.   Sounds interesting moght see you there. bob

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Hi. I will be going to the Argentinean Patagonia (Neuquen, Rio Negro, and Chubut provinces) this coming January. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding fly patterns to try? What about places to go? Thanks. Daniel Martinez

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Hi. I will be going to the Argentinean Patagonia (Neuquen, Rio Negro, and Chubut provinces) this coming January. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding fly patterns to try? What about places to go? Thanks. Daniel Martinez

Take a look at the lastest issue of "Outside" magazine.  There is an article on flyfishing Patagonia.   — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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