Question:

am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption)

I purchased a Pungo for fishing last spring, and spent quite a few summer evenings on small lakes in my area.  I am more than pleased with it.  It’s quite stable and easy to paddle.  It’s hull has hard chines, so you won’t be turning on a dime, but it tracks well. You have to be a bit careful where you position the rod holder.  That’s the one piece of equipment that could get in the way of your paddling.  E-mail me if you’d like more info. Chuck

Response:

Thanks for the reply, did you buy the your boat with the fishing package installed? I have never used a kayak and need to be able to also paddle upstream on slow flowing river, so you think this boat is still a good choice? thanks pjb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) I purchased a Pungo for fishing last spring, and spent quite a few summer evenings on small lakes in my area.  I am more than pleased with it. It’s quite stable and easy to paddle.  It’s hull has hard chines, so you won’t be turning on a dime, but it tracks well. You have to be a bit careful where you position the rod holder. That’s the one piece of equipment that could get in the way of your paddling.  E- mail me if you’d like more info. Chuck

Response:

Thanks for the reply, did you buy the your boat with the fishing package installed? I have never used a kayak and need to be able to also paddle upstream on slow flowing river, so you think this boat is still a good choice? thanks pjb

Paul: I installed the the package myself.  Nothing to it.  As far as paddling upstream on a slow flowing river, that should be no problem.   What kind of fishing do you have in mind?  Also, do you live anywhere near Wisconsin by any chance.  There’ll be some good deals on Pungos at a kayak show there in the near future (no I’m not selling). Chuck

Response:

I HAVE THE PUNGO  WITH OUT THE FISHING OPTION I LOVE IT ITS STABLE AND IT HAS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR MY FLY FISHIG GEAR ITS A GOOD BOAT  EASY TO HANDLE AND CONTROLL AND YA GOTA LOVE THE LARGE OPENING IN IT I PERSONALY WOULD PICK THE COLOR YOU WANT AND ADD THE EXTRAS AS YOU SEE YOU NEED THEM BOU IF YOU WANT TO STAND UP TO CAST YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT WWW.TRIBALANCE.COM BUT I CAST A 8 FT FLY ROD SITTING DOW OUT OF MY PUNGO GOOD UCK SIK

Response:

I am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) or the Pungo Angler.  First does anyone have a used one they would like to sell? Second, what do you think of either of these boats? Third, how stable are they and are they good to fish out of? Fourth, does the added fishing hardware get in they way of paddling? Last, How difficult is the Pamlico Excel to paddle solo? Any Help? Thanks

Response:

I am thinking about purchasing either Pamlico Excel (adding the fishing opption) or the Pungo Angler.  First does anyone have a used one they would like to sell?

I have used them both before.  I used to sell these for a living. Second, what do you think of either of these boats?

I think you have made excellent choices in both boats.  The Pungo seems to have been the most popular with fisherman in my past seeling days. Third, how stable are they and are they good to fish out of?

Very stable and very good to fish out of.  They both have excellent initial and secondary stability. Fourth, does the added fishing hardware get in they way of paddling?

No.  Just don’t add it where you think it may get in the way.  You can add as much hardwear as you want to make the boat’s use exactly for what you want to use it for. Last, How difficult is the Pamlico Excel to paddle solo?

It’s not hard at all but turning it is a bit harder on your own just because of it’s length.  On top of that you can take another person or even a dog with you at anytime you want.  That’s the negative of the Pungo.  The positive is that it will turn easier than the Pamlico. Courtney

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Question:

anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

Response:

I live in orange county and work in San Diego. I have not had much luck surf fly fishing in any so cal waters. Usually it is a matter of access. Most of the good stretches of beach are hard, if not impossible to get to. Any spots where you do have access to are WAY overcrowded by bait fisherman, A large percent looking for a family dinner. I have had great luck renting a skiff from seaforth. You can fish in mission bay, or Coronado island. Get out there with deceivers, let’em sink, then strip, strip, strip, like a mad man. Mackerel, rock fish, I even caught a baby barracuda once Seaforth also has a big boat to rent with GPS and all the goodies, so you can really get out there and hit the kelp beds. It is pricey though. Also there is a great salt fly fishing store in SD. If anyone knows, these guys do… San Diego Fly Shop. 619-283-3445. They have flys, lines, and all the stuff you need. Call them, they know the area. Note : you need a special sticker on your ca fishing license to do the salt thing. Good luck, Marc visit the Fly Fishing Zone at http://www.bookmarkzone.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyone have experience ff the surf in San diego this time of year? I would greatly appreciate any comments–and if you live here perhaps we could get together–I am a fresh water ffman recently transported. Thanks Ron

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Question:

Let’s Get Us a Real River! The Red Cedar is the second biggest feature of our local natural heritage (first being farmland). But the river is vastly under-maintained, even though it’s vital to us. We impact it a lot and have great expectations of it. Why not see if there might be a way to improve the situation and start reaping the benefits that a quality river can give? What’s the river like now? A muddy ditch with a mucky bottom that floods when it doesn

Question:

No question about it being a useful fishing tool. However I retired it because of its sentimental value to me But not before teaching my son to fly fish with it. It now has a place next to my desk in my office along with the old remains of the old bamboo rod and my fathers willow creel. I was just curious about its value. It sounds to me, perhaps, that it is priceless. TimW

Damn good answer *              Standard Disclaimer Applies<<<                *       *                                                               * *  ENTOMOLOGIST    ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR    ALL-AROUND NUT   * * "the line between human and nonhuman is, like all lines,      * *  one that should be drawn in pencil, so that it can be moved  * *  to accomodate moral evolution and the realization of moral   * *  reality"                                                     * *  –Rutgers University Prof. G L Francione (who, incidentally, * *  as of 13 Feb 1997 uses the Rutgers University logo on the    * *  very same web page where he hawks his rather dry, poorly-    * *  written books…..AND posted to talk.politics.animals        * *  recently using a pseudonym)                                  * *                                                               * *  "Animal rights lunatics are misguided fools" –me            *        

Response:

No question about it being a useful fishing tool. However I retired it because of its sentimental value to me But not before teaching my son to fly fish with it. It now has a place next to my desk in my office along with the old remains of the old bamboo rod and my fathers willow creel. I was just curious about its value.

It sounds to me, perhaps, that it is priceless. TimW

Response:

No question about it being a useful fishing tool. However I retired it because of its sentimental value to me But not before teaching my son to fly fish with it. It now has a place next to my desk in my office along with the old remains of the old bamboo rod and my fathers willow creel. I was just curious about its value. — Regards, Ken

Ken,         If it is Brass and has a Bulldog emblem, it would be the Pfleuger Progress reel, value about $55. Reed

Response:

I have an old Pfluger fly real that was passed to me when I was kid (back in the ice age). It is the essence of simplicity and made mostly of brass. Small in size. It was mounted on an old cheap (as in originally didn’t cost much) split bamboo three piece rod. No label, guides or tip survived the ravages of storage in my parents basement. Question is, does the real have any value other then the obvious sentimental value? — Regards, Ken

Ken- Value, as in could you turn around and sell it for a Whoop of cash?  NO… ..but it’s still a plenty useful fishing tool.  I’d recommend taking it to the gas station and blowing air through it to remove all the dust, giving it a good wipe down and lube job and checking all the screws to make sure they’re tight.. cuz they’re getting tough to replace.  You may want to consider removing the screws and applying a drop of LocTite to them (or head cement) and then threading them back in place. I still have 6 old Pflugers and use them quite a bit….they tend to be rather heavy on the newer graphite rods and are tough to "balance" to an outfit, but it depends on the type (and volume!) of fishing you’re doing if this will pose a "reel" problem   =8^)) Larry #:)#

Response:

No question about it being a useful fishing tool. However I retired it because of its sentimental value to me But not before teaching my son to fly fish with it. It now has a place next to my desk in my office along with the old remains of the old bamboo rod and my fathers willow creel. I was just curious about its value. — Regards, Ken Dry lines catch no fish! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken- Value, as in could you turn around and sell it for a Whoop of cash? NO… ..but it’s still a plenty useful fishing tool.  I’d recommend taking it to the gas station and blowing air through it to remove all the dust, giving it a good wipe down and lube job and checking all the screws to make sure they’re tight.. cuz they’re getting tough to replace.  You may want to consider removing the screws and applying a drop of LocTite to them (or head cement) and then threading them back in place. I still have 6 old Pflugers and use them quite a bit….they tend to be rather heavy on the newer graphite rods and are tough to "balance" to an outfit, but it depends on the type (and volume!) of fishing you’re doing if this will pose a "reel" problem   =8^)) Larry #:)#

Response:

I have an old Pfluger fly real that was passed to me when I was kid (back in the ice age). It is the essence of simplicity and made mostly of brass. Small in size. It was mounted on an old cheap (as in originally didn’t cost much) split bamboo three piece rod. No label, guides or tip survived the ravages of storage in my parents basement. Question is, does the real have any value other then the obvious sentimental value? — Regards, Ken Dry lines catch no fish!

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -[snip] Now pardon me while I go and bake this Steelhead.  The only one I kept this year out of thirty released. Sincerely, Mr. Gink — MZ          You should be commended for releasing 29, not admonished for keeping one.Seems to me that you might be better to lambast someone who threatens the existence of the population by unchecked and uncontrolled unethical outlaw activity. The only real sin in using a resource is in waste or destruction of it. The resposibility that comes with the right of use is to insure protection from waste and destruction. Careful management (by management I don’t mean stocking programs) t

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a steelhead let alone caught one – steelhead are extrememly resilent; mortalities are low with all sorts    of tackle; in BC steelhead for hatchery brood are kept for week and even   months and mostly caught with hook and line; mortality is less than    5% well under – for a good steelheader 30 a year isn’t a large number – chances are of the 29 George released none died So while what you say is nice it doesn’t relate to the post. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. I probably never visit that place again, for fear that I may slip and mention that I actually use HOOKs to catch fish. I not making any comparisons between he and you, mind you. Oh, I love the Gink, by the way.                                     Tight lines,                                     Stephen Di Cerbo

Response:

I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death.

All too often, c&r is used as a way to "fish more," and feel good about it.  More and more, I have heard people say that if they were keeping fish on a prolific stream, they might be done fishing in less than an hour, but if they release everything, they can fish all day.  Most of them accept that c&r mortality is probably around 10%, but believe that their personal rate is much lower, like 1%.  Some of them learned to flyfish about a year ago. Fishing less can be difficult, but face it, catching 50-100 fish in a day sounds a lot like gluttony, IMHO.  There’s no reason to catch more fish when you’re releasing them than you would if you were keeping them (is there?).  It’s more difficult to be sure, since you’re not restricted by law, but by self-discipline, but it can make for a more relaxed day when you’re not trying to see how many fish you can catch in a day. CQ

Response:

IN support and response of George and others I too forward some opinions. Heritage is but an eliquant excuse.  I believe that within the FFing community those who take a fish or two are considered as unholy.  Many threads have been spun on this topic i know.  THe point I wish to make is that the users of ANY resource are diverse.  The chance to keep fish is what fuels some, and the chance to C&R others.  What must be remebered by all us is the resource. Many different management stategies have been tried across north america, some working and some not.  The C&R strategy is but one.  I think as we sit and look at others and their use within a strategy that moderation and toleration are required.  A quote to potententially contemplate "Anyone can manage the resource.  It’s managing the users that presents the problem" Aldo Leopold. Something else to consider on this topic is the basic population structure of a fishery.  To look at the number of any one age of fish graphically sees many young and few old (or small/large).  THis is the basis for the slot limits some of you may know so well.  This method allows for both C&R volentary or regualted as well as kill, always keeping the population in mind. Finally to end this rant, FF’ers are but one of the multitude of fishers out there.  We tend to fish streams and fish for trout and that’s where our world ends.  In Canada, Ontario where I live each spring on any lake whihc holds pickerel (Walleye) a floatila of boats forms whihc one could walk across (in certain places).  These anglers do not sport flyrods and do intend on taking fish home.  So then in looking at all fishermen of all types, I would put forward the thought that keeping fish is "what’s done" and C&R is still a mystery to most. What I advocate is a concern for the resource by each induvidual.   Understanding whats going on within a system allows for true concern and protection of any system.  To just do something because it’s the "norm" is not the way to manage or use a resource. Thoughts to consider every time one goes fishing.  The act of wading may be of greater concern then catching a realesing or keeping a fish.   Further that the fish most of use seek are "naturalized", that is with little exception rainbows came from west slope drainges (i.e. the pacific), browns came from germany and brookies from the north and east. The fish we seek are aliens which forced out the natives.   Don’t get me wrong, I love to fish, and fish for rainbows, and browns, these are just things to consider. Ian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well said; I agree completely. it’s time to move beyond a simple C&R vs C&K debate and find ways of returning quality to the experience. And who gets to define Quality of Experience ?  I could catch a 15 pounder from the Frying Pan river and have zero QOE. TimW There was a time when openning day on the Battenkill was an event! People arrived the evenning before, built fires, drank some, swapped stories…now days you are very lucky to find a fisherman on the Battenkill, much less catch a fish…in fact VT Fish and Game have been trying to complete a creel study on the river but have not been able to survey enough fisherman…because the fisherman aren’t there!  Now, a big part of the Battenkills problem has been the 12 fish limit on the river and live bait fisherman killing their limit.  There is no quality experience left for anyone…period!  Somewhere out there is the balance that will restore the quality of experience for all fishers…being absolute about any one agenda..other than doing what is right for the fish…is not going to return the quality fishing experience to the Battenkill.

Extremely interesting to me.   I might have to give the Battenkill a whirl, sounds like my kind of river. Give me the possibility of a fish, however remote, and solitude over many fish and fishermen any day of the week. TimW

Response:

Nice post,

Yes, it was….. but Catch and Kill is far from the greatest threat to our fisheries.

I would say amen to that. In fact I think one could argue that management of a fishery may well require some catch and kill to maintain a healthy population.

It will require much more than that.  It will require a whole different approach.  Lotteries, moratoriums, and other methods of reducing the usage of our trout waters are needed to reduce habitat degradation and to promote renewal of wild stocks. But lets talk *Heritage* for a moment.  Lets talk about the Heritage to cut the forest, mine the mountains and use our rivers for sewers. We pass off these heritages as *Rights*…I find it very difficult to accept from some of the people that post to this newsgroup their obsession with catch and release, and their unwillingness to be equally militant regarding the damage done by industry to our streams.

I too find it difficult to accept this near-religious fervor many hold for the "Sacred Cow" (C&R), especially when the real damage to our waters continue unabated. I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death. I’m not advocating C&K here.  What I am advocating is a kinder & gentler approach to how we view our rivers, and what we as fishers are doing to them.  We need to lighten up. </c — Chaz Clover "Hemoroids. There, I said it!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is my view that although Catch and Kill is viewed by many as ‘A Heritage’ to a right to kill is in fact rightfully going the way of the passenger pigeon and bison mentality.  Like it or not.  This is not to say that taking fish to eat that are within the legal limit is wrong. It is getting to be tougher or harder to justify the taking under the old ruse of need.  As our wildlife inventories decrease daily under the weight of a burgeoning population explosion, the concept begins to sink in its own quicksand

Question:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

I’m sorry, but the issue should be not what technology is used, but rather the attitude and the intend with which it is employed.  The purist takes issue with the uninitiated to avoid having to share, as by sharing, in his mind, he is reduced. Peter

Response:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

You don’t want to know unless your sure your waders don’t leak. Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

A fine question. I fish for a variety of reasons. The strongest is that I love the sea, I go there summer and winter with or without a rod, but fishing is what turns voyeurism into an actual connection for me. That connection can be made with a 12′ surf rod, or a dropline even, but I use a fly rod. I enjoy the uncertainty of fly fishing. When I began my friends all used spinning gear, and would probably catch 20 cod before I would catch anything on the fly. But once I’d catch something they would say "I can’t believe you actually caught something on that rod." This gave me a sense of accomplishment, a feeling of overcoming an obstacle. I like that. With my surf rod I can go out and spray casts all over the place and cover a tremendous amount of water, and I will catch a fish more often than not. With my fly rod I can only fish water within 100′ of me. Sometimes this water doesn’t look like it can hold anything, and when it does it is a happy surprise. It’s this surprise I like best in fishing, and the more I tip the odds in my favor the less of a surprise it is when I catch a fish. So for me technology diminishes the joy I find in fishing. That’s why when I’m in my boat I try never to look at the fishfinder. I look at the water depth so I can find changes, then turn it off. I think the purpose of many of the technological advances in sport are marketing driven. Make something difficult easier and you get more appeal to the masses. If it took 100 hours for every fish we caught, many would not fish, so for the industry it’s good business to make the sport easier. People who are new to the sport will not notice the difference, and will probably get as much enjoyment from it as I do. I would not enjoy using their methods, and they probably would not enjoy mine, and I think that’s OK. All this makes me think back to a bumper sticker I had in the 70s that said "Short Skiis Suck". In order to make skiing easier and more widely appealing, manufacturers put out these short, easy to skid turn skiis. All of a sudden any bozo could survive a difficult run. Those of us who were still on 205s, 210s etc. didn’t care for this, and didn’t care for the difference it made in the shape of a mogul; gnarly choppy bumps instead of smooth, rounded bumps. When I think of this it seems to me that in any sport major technology shifts will be despised by those who got there without them, while the newer people will wonder what’s the big deal. That most of what I like is the traditional and most of what I don’t like is technological just tells me that I’m getting on in years :-                                                 jc

Response:

Michael: Electric socks keep ones feet warm while hunting in sub-zero temperatures. Well, they’d keep them warm at any time, but are especially useful when hunting in seriously cold weather. Might I add they are also useful for wearing under waders when you’re going to be in super-cold water. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Response:

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Look at them as part of your outdoor potty training. They teach you to pee far from you standing position, and not to dribble. 8^) Bruce….

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer.

This is in the same vein as my post from last week on "What is flyfishing to You: Was…". Its something that takes some meditation to answer with the convictions of truth. Your ruminations focusing on technology are well meant but the more I consider it the more I think they are perhaps misplaced. The reason is that what you describe relishing is the challenge of succeeding in a "fair chase" endeavor. This is not merely the harvesting (or R’ing) of the game but is the overcoming of obstacles barring your way to that success. Thus, for an accomplished sportsman excess technological "advantages" take the challenge and fun out of the endeavor. For those of lesser prowess, these technological advantages put them into the game closer to the same challenge level as the more accomplished individuals and can therefore experience similar joys when they succeed occasionally. As sporting prowess increases, the sportsman will often shift the balance in the "fair chase" equation back to a level that gives more challenge, thus voluntarily negating to some extent their increased skill level. This is often accomplished by going to more traditional and less technological methods (witness the resurgence of popularity in long bow archery for hunting to replace compound bows) or by setting and only seeking greater challenges for themselves (trophy bucks only, traveling to impenetrable areas to fish, targeting very selective trout, etc, etc). In the end, it is all relative to the individual. A sportsman, as I see it, certainly wants some success but not necessarily too much so that a challenge remains to be met. Where an individual falls on this scale can be shifted through technological innovation. It may be true to some extent that the ultimate purist has the least success in their sport (in terms of numbers). When I consider what flyfishing is to me I can roll over a litany of single experiences in my mind but none of them suffice as individual justifications to flyfish (or bowhunt, which falls in the same aesthetic category for me). When I look back at memories of flyfishing the conclusion that I have come to is that these endeavors are the closest thing to a striving for perfection that I may ever experience. What are the true memories at the end of a season? It is not the nice day catching many fish, one after another. It is not the various places gone, people seen, sunsets, bugs, gear, or water. These are part of the collage of experience that you can lovingly thumb through upon reflection but not the core. The core memories are the fleeting moments when the striving for perfection has been nearly achieved, the proper selection of gear for a promising spot never before considered or never properly fished before. A new insight and the laying in of the right fly on a lightly presented cast- just right. A sipping rise and a good fish on, well played and now in hand and for a moment in time everything has stopped and the universe has altered its course to revolve around that fleeting instant where judgement and skill (and perhaps some luck) have combined to meet the challenge that has been set. It may be the only fish of the day but it will be remembered long after the season ends and many more fish have been taken with less grace and spirit. So there flows the river Why. Jon (Am in total agreement on the "gotta get my game (fill in species here)" to have fun attitude described previously)

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As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme"

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

A good place to stay on the Big Horn is the Cottonwood Camp.  They are located below Ft. Smith near Three Mile. There units are small campers or converted camper bus.  Shower and store facilities at the site.  Cost was $10.00 per person per night.  Couldn’t beat the cost or the hospitality.  Enjoy!!

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Al, I’m going to be in Bozeman next weekend, Friday thru Monday, (August 1-4).  Can you recommend a guide for nearby waters?  How about flies for this time of year? Thanks, Bob McAnulty PS:  Will you also forward address, phone number, hours info on your shop? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Going to fish the Bighorn in September.  Any suggestions regarding guides, flies, gear, best spots, etc.???  Any information you can share is appreciated.

Hi Black caddis (#18 – #20), tan caddis (#14) and Trico’s (#20) are the main hatches at that time of the year.  You need to call the different shops in Fort Smith to schedule a guide OR you can rent a boat and do your own trip.  Usually people fish the first 13 miles of the Big Horn below Yellowtail Dam.  There are three fishing access locations 1. After Bay at Fort Smith, 2. Three Mile, and 3. Big Horn (13 mile).  Usually people float from either After Bay or Three Mile to Big Horn access.  There are many places along the way to stop and wade fish. I’m not sure what the stream flows will be in September but last week the river was fairly high and moving right along.  There was still great fishing.  To monitor the stream flows for the Big Horn AND the rest of Montana check out the Current Stream Flow report on the net at http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/rt/rt_table.html Good luck and Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

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Was there in March and had a great trip. Flies for bonefish- The Gotcha or Crazy Charlie in light tan with no flash. Permit- the raghead crab in light tan or an epoxi crab in light tan, almost white. Clothing light cotton long sleeve shirts. I used a pair of hospital scrub pants for leg protection with Simms gravel guards and flats wading shoes. Your in for a treat. Good luck. Jack

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Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Casa Blanca is one of the best flats destinations I have been to.  The lodge, food, service, boats, guides and location are all first class.  You will catch many bones, some tarpon, possibly snook, barracuda and permit. You can use a 7 to 8 weight outfit for bones.  I would use a 9 to 10 weight for tarpon, barracudas and permit.  We like Mastery Bonesfish/Tarpon floating lines for fishing out of a boat in warm climates. We used #6 tan to brown Charlies and Snapping Shrimp for bones.  #2/4 Tan crabs for permit ( Rag Head, Turneffe and McCrab ).  Needle fish flies with wire for barracudas. Tarpon liked 2/0 Seahabits, red/white  and red/yellow Seaducers and  Stu Apte style tarpon flies in orange/grizzly, orange/yellow or Cockroach.  Snook seem to like red/yellow or cockroach colors. I would recommend doing some casting in the wind before you go to get in shape. If you are well equipped with tackle and clothing the guides will really take care of the rest. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

Looking for any reports on the fishing buddy II to be used on a float tube.

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Looking for any reports on the fishing buddy II to be used on a float tube.

you can tell where your feet are

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I use one on my tube all the time. Works great for finding weed edgesdrop offs and other structures. Side finder is very good for marking fish and casting blind. I use mine for tracking  afish coming down a weededge to figure out which direcction he is going. Batteries last a long time and its great for both flyfishing and walleyes. Anything further try Email — *** Home of the Fishing Log ***

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Question:

I’d like to apologize to Mark for flaming him.  That was not my intent!  My intent was to poke a little fun at elitist dry fly fishermen who look down on nymphing.  BTW my perferred method of fishing is with a dry fly or emerger, but only when it is effective, most of the time it’s just not as effective as nymphing.  IMO nymphing in many ways is more challenging than dry fly fishing.   For example dead drift is every bit as important to nymphing as with a dry fly presentation but tougher due to the differential current speeds from surface to stream bottom.

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Keywords: I got  e-mail in response to a previous post  and I thought I’d share it with the group. Mark Writes in response to my post below: For nymphs fished dead drift I always use long leaders, indicators and lead. when you say "indicators", are you referring to "bobbers"? i.e. Little things that float around and bounce up and down when a fish bites.                           Mark

Yes Mark that’s exactly what I mean and with no apologies.  Except for sight nymphing where you can see both the fish and the nymph at the same time, its almost impossible to see the take by watching your line (another little thing that floats around and bounces up and down when a fish bites).   Even with an indicator experienced fisheman miss at least 50% of the takes.  This experience comes from years of fishing to sighted fish with partners, where one partner spots for the other.   Frequently, when I’m up on a bank with a good angle, I’ve watched the trout we’re hunting inhale the nymph with no movement in the line leader or indicator.  A nymphing trout’s take is very subtle.  They suck the nymph and almost as quickly blow it back out again if you don’t set the hook. So Mark if you can’t stomache using a bobber or indicator, then just sit back and continue to be   self satisfied catching only the trout dumb enough to hook themselves (Usually the smaller ones who have to dart in from the side.), then by all means continue.   I’ll just have to take my satisfaction from success on the water, knowing deep down inside that somehow I’m just not the fisherman I could be if I could only loose my dependence on those bobbers! Just in case anyone out there thinks I’m serious.  I don’t know a single nymph fisherman, whose opinion I respect, who doesn’t use indicators ( that includes Andre Puyans, Mike Lawson, Lamb, etc.).  I vary the type of indicator to the conditions I’m fishing.   In fast water I use Marks bobbers to set the depth of float as much as anything.  In fast water the line drag usually sets the hook sets the hook before you’ll see the indicator move or pause.  In glass smooth gin clear water I use either a little silicon on the leader or a small tuft of yarn.  But what the heck it’s all bobber fishing right Mark.

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