Question:

My provider has warned me that my account will be suspended, due to my sending off-topic posts, and insults. This is a direct result of Gehrkes lies. A copy of the first post is appended. I can not afford to lose my Usenet access at this time, I need it for my work.  As a consequence, I have no choice but to unsubscribe from ROFF. If you wish to contact me,.please use e-mail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:53 AM Hallo Herr Connor, bitte den "Privatkrieg" beenden, hier kommen Beschwerden

Question:

The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. Hey Tough Guy, you’re sure a BAD ass! You want to take on a guy with what, twenty years on you? I’m sure that you strutted around with this macho, hard guy attitude at the local bars in Gardiner.

My experience has always been that those who go around bragging about how tough they are, aren’t.      - Ken

Response:

…  I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out.  OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, … The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality.

You are such a sssstud.  I wanna be just like you when I’m an old geezer with a chip on my shoulder.      - Ken

Response:

I would not hesitate to call this to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

Your finest hour, I’d imagine. — Charlie…

Response:

Really Ken?  I would say that most anyone of good character and wisdom would avoid *you* too, but there are some folk here that seem to like or at least tolerate you, and I believe they are of decent character and wise beyond belief–so go figure this one. I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show.  Is this an unwise move on my part?  The occasion will certainly give you an opportunity to give George and me the verbal thrashing that we so richly deserve, as I know, "in reality", you are not suggesting that you might become physical with another ROFFian.

Hi Op,  You appear to have a great mellon on your shoulders.  If you ever show up in Montana, drop me an email and I would be happy to show you some of my *new* home waters. Thanks for trying to keep Ken honest. Paul — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

…  I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out.  OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, …

The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

okay

–waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel.

Response:

okay –waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel.

I predict bad weather. — Charlie…

Response:

okay –waldo, ticket concessionaire….. have coat rack, will travel. I predict bad weather.

Exactly.

Response:

The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality. — Ken Fortenberry

Really Ken?  I would say that most anyone of good character and wisdom would avoid *you* too, but there are some folk here that seem to like or at least tolerate you, and I believe they are of decent character and wise beyond belief–so go figure this one. I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show.  Is this an unwise move on my part?  The occasion will certainly give you an opportunity to give George and me the verbal thrashing that we so richly deserve, as I know, "in reality", you are not suggesting that you might become physical with another ROFFian. Op  –reluctant pacifist–

Response:

Op writes: I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show.

Uh, Op, George won’t be at the Penns Clave.  Three things will keep him from showing up:  1.  A yellow stripe down his back.  2.  He doesn’t have a pilot’s license. 3. A yellow stripe down his back. But, I hope to fish with ya.  <g Dave

Response:

… I will be at the Penn’s ‘Clave, and will at least attempt to fish with George/you, should y’all show.  Is this an unwise move on my part? …

George won’t show and I’m pretty picky about who I fish with. I would decline to fish with any "sportsman" who’s nigh on a poacher and who boasts of destructive and illegal joy rides in our National Forests. An unwise move would be carrying an illegal concealed weapon. I would not hesitate to call this to the attention of the appropriate authorities. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

HI op,  send me an e-mail. I need your return e-mail address. Tried to send you something, but it just bounces. TL MC

Response:

The village idiot has shown uncharacteristic wisdom and good sense in avoiding me, as evidenced by actually being in Ennis during the first Western ‘Clave and not daring to show his face. Outrageous fantasies like you describe above, should he decide to believe them, would not work out well in reality.

Hey Tough Guy, you’re sure a BAD ass! You want to take on a guy with what, twenty years on you? I’m sure that you strutted around with this macho, hard guy attitude at the local bars in Gardiner. Willi

Response:

What a nice thing to say Willi. Enjoying your posts. George

     yes, george, most of us share that feeling.  and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion?  because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep:  "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…"      until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh

Response:

Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship.

[ Nice compliments from a true fisher-gentlemen snipped...] I also had a great time at the Juan. It’s one thing to read books and watch videos. As a novice, you can learn a great deal by experimenting on your own. It’s the *real* thing to watch guys like Willi, Charlie, Bruce, Warren, et al, work a piece of water. If your within eyesight or earshot of them, you can’t help but improve, fishing and otherwise. It has been often said that "Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach." These fellows prove that, for the friends of the gifted, doing and teaching are the same thing. Danl

Response:

     yes, george, most of us share that feeling.  and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion?  because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep:  "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…"      until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh

I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do.  I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes.  Nothing more, nothing less. geg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     yes, george, most of us share that feeling.  and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion?  because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep:  "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…"     until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do.  I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes.  Nothing more, nothing less. geg

…well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often.  sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with…  why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? jeff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     yes, george, most of us share that feeling.  and do you know why absolutely no one will respond to your posts in a similar fashion?  because when you had the opportunity to describe your experience with the same sort of improving fisherman, you used it as the means to drop names, describe your own excellence, and falsely attribute an hyperegotistical statement to your adoring sheep:  "…even an icon like you, george (or words to that effect)…"     until you accept the fact that the difference between you and folks like willi is not measured by absolute talent or experience, but how you relate to your fellow man, you will never be accepted among gentlemen in the fashion you so deeply desire. awh I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do.  I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes.  Nothing more, nothing less. geg …well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often.  sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with…  why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? jeff

okay

Response:

…..I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied

tennis shoes….. Yes, well, that’s because you always have at least one foot in your mouth. The mouth is, of course, firmly attached to your head, and we all know where that lives.  No one could possibly walk thus contorted, even with velcro closures. Then again, you’re an idiot. Wolfgang

Response:

… why don’t you come to penns in may … okay

Yeah, that would be … interesting. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes.  Nothing more, nothing less. geg

You misspelled "gag" BTW. –Steve

Response:

I’m sure that is the way it seems to you Wayne, but rest assured you should not take me as seriously as you do.  I’m just the guy across the river that keeps stumbling on his untied tennis shoes.  Nothing more, nothing less. …well, why doesn’t that "guy" post here more often.  sounds like someone i could appreciate and identify with…  why don’t you come to penns in may and stumble about with the rest of us? okay

You know what the funny thing is George?  As much as you appear to be a buffoon, as much as you irritate people, as much as you are downright despised by a few, I honestly believe it would be water under the bridge if you’d just act like a regular person, show up, meet some people and hang out.  OK, maybe a couple that you have really pissed will need some sort of apology first, but on the whole this is an incredible group of gentlemen that will accept people for what they are and be genuinely nice to anyone that is at least sincere, and approachable, and who possesses an ego no larger than, say, the state in which they are fishing.  Considering how much people seem to dislike you, don’t you find it remarkable how many invitations you get to claves?  People here are interested in camaraderie and sharing, not self-aggrandizement.  I think you’d be surprised what could change. I do not hate you.  You’ve insulted me personally, in counterattack to be fair, but nothing that I ever took seriously.  The times you have really offended me were times when you were not speaking directly to me, when you tried to make yourself more important than the things we hold dear, such as a clave, or a friendship, or the memory of a person.

Response:

It has been often said that "Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach." These fellows prove that, for the friends of the gifted, doing and teaching are the same thing.

Yeah man.

Response:

Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship. However, the thing that gave me the most pleasure was to see the growth in fly fishing skills of a couple of the participants. I’ve been fishing with most of these guys for about a year and a half. I was very impressed by the progress made by a couple of the guys. They started with little idea where to cast the fly, an inability to put the fly where they wanted, no clue as to what fly to choose and forget about presentation. (No offense meant by this) They have progressed to the point that they were able to catch fussy fish on a large river in difficult, murky water conditions. They were able to choose appropriate flies (one of them even gave me a couple flies that were effective for me the next day on several very tough fish), find appropriate spots and use appropriate techniques that resulted in some nice fish. Great to see! Willi

Response:

What a nice thing to say Willi. Enjoying your posts. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got back from a great trip to The Juan, again admirably hosted by Bruce. Some good fishing, decent weather and great companionship. However, the thing that gave me the most pleasure was to see the growth in fly fishing skills of a couple of the participants. I’ve been fishing with most of these guys for about a year and a half. I was very impressed by the progress made by a couple of the guys. They started with little idea where to cast the fly, an inability to put the fly where they wanted, no clue as to what fly to choose and forget about presentation. (No offense meant by this) They have progressed to the point that they were able to catch fussy fish on a large river in difficult, murky water conditions. They were able to choose appropriate flies (one of them even gave me a couple flies that were effective for me the next day on several very tough fish), find appropriate spots and use appropriate techniques that resulted in some nice fish. Great to see! Willi

Response:

Question:

That’s a pretty little fish from a lovely looking stream!   Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

…..Valley Creek…….flows through Valley Forge National Park…….a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis……

Damn!  I looked at that creek one time, about six or seven years ago. My sister’s back yard borders the park.  When I went to visit her I looked at the stream rather closely and thought that it might be an adequate habitat but…..nah, WAY too urban.  Damn! Wolfgang who hadn’t bothered to bring any fishing gear      :(

Response:

Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Yes, this is all true. The creek from what I was told is extremly hard to fish. I felt very lucky to catch one on my second visit there. I am actually moving in the summer about 15 min. from Tuplehocken, I have not fished there yet but have heard some great things about it. Valley Creek and French Creek are currently my home waters until June. Are there any tips about Tuplehocken that I can use, especially since it will be my new home waters.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

nice’un matt… my first was discovered in lost cove creek.  i continue to this day to be the recipient of the meager crumbs offered by ol pj, who for some misguided reason carted my ass along on one of his wayno-less forays into lost cove creek in 1979 or 1980. on our way through morganton, i bought a fenwick fiberglass rod and a martin reel.  back then you could drive the goat trail to the creek…if you didn’t care about the underbody.  as i recall, jim showed me a knot, gave me 2 yellow humpies, and said – "there’s the stream, the fish are in it, good luck"… leaving me to flog about in lonely but uncriticized desperation, he then went way upstream to the sassafrass area.  i waded, slid into the water with my rubber-sole hip boots (yeah, he thought that was funny too – jim’s got a dangerous sense of funny – i soon discovered the humor, painfully so).  but, i caught a trout in a riffle right in front of me.    don’t have any idea what it was, but it hooked me and i’ve been wigglin happy on the hook ever since. to this day, i consider pj’s gift of the stream second only to the grace of marriage to my wife rachel. jeff (who’s formal education in trout streams didn’t begin until i matriculated with wally and some of this crowd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind

Good story Matt. Willi

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh?

BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a *monster*. Just another of those tricks I learned from a fellow ROFFian. ‘Course seeing as you are the one who *taught* me that trick I guess you already know it. –Steve

Response:

Yeah – I ’bout died of exhaustion. Must have had to fight the monster for 30 seconds, but time went by so slow it seemed like a whole minute or two. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh? BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a

*monster*. alright, alright….

Response:

Congratulations! My first fish on a fly was a chub.  I hated chub.  This stupid chub, which was sitting in a pool with a few brook trout, took my wooley bugger that I was told would catch me lots of brook trout.  The chub dang near devoured the whole fly.   I really dislike fish that make squeaking noises when you’re trying to dislodge a hook from it’s mouth.  I can never get over that. Spooks me too much to hear this ugly looking thing make noises while I’ve got the forceps in its mouth.  Gives me the shivers. I almost gave up on fly fishing after that.  I was about 15 years old, and had the impression that the only fish I could catch on a fly were beautiful trout.   Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s not true.  I still can’t deal with the freakin squeeks of a chub though. Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/

Response:

nice story matt…… i crossed winkler’s yesterday on a trip into boone. the ice has melted and i thought about the times when we used to fish that lil ole feeder stream that flows into winklers….. mebbe i’ll go back there this year. we’re getting rain today…. unbelievable, maybe 6 inches of snow this season total. i’m gonna head out somewhere today if the rains let up…. thinkin’ about high up on the watauga. see ya in pa, –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. The really neat thing was that I caught it on a dry fly and got to see the fish rise and take the fly. I don’t know why I picked Snowbird instead of a more convenient stream, but that was it. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod and fishing for steelhead (lake run rainbows?) at the time…… Things have improved a little since. It was a pretty fish though, and it remains the only brookie I have ever caught on a fly. Vaughan

Response:

I started fly-fishing with a two-handed European-style salmon rod. (Most of the guys in our unofficial fishing club prefer salmon fishing nowadays.) The first catch was a 4" salmon parr from river Gaula in Norway. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel.

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod…

Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

Lissen here – that was an epic battle. Me and my stick versus the cunning slimy carnivorous predator! — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod… Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike…

Yeah, I hear dat….

Response:

   Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career.

        boys, i have fished for thirty years in the blue ridge, and i have seen exactly three folks who can do it as well as this guy. thanks for pulling back the veil on your first time, mccrayfish.         the down side is, it will get much tougher the older you get. the blue ridge is not a gentle partner. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

 With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

        well, with deepest regret i must admit that your story is far more heroic than mine.         i signed up to work for a law firm in greensboro, nc, in the fall of 1969.  one of the partners was a guy who is still one of my best friends, a yankee from uptstate new york, around the roscoe area. i had fished with a fly rod since i was 9 or 10, but only for warm water fish.  he suggested a trip to the catskills, and there we were: the beaverkill, the willowemoc, harry darby, walt dette, all that yankee folklore…and it was really neat.  but the first fish i caught was a 6 inch brown, hauled in on the end of a muddler minnow, on the east branch of the delaware, a long way from the crystal waters that would become my home, just a year or so from then.  but that’s another story, with another friend. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Carlos Figueroa" wrote… I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Your story is better than mine.  The first fish I caught on a fly was a 3" Bluegill 23 years ago.  But I can safely say it’s been all up hill from there. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

    My first was a ten inch brook trout on a size 8 hopper. I was lucky enough to spend my younger years in a town with many good trout streams within biking distance, and caught this one on a little spring creek that ran behind the IGA.     It was great growing up with 3 trout streams within 15min bike ride of my house, and once I got the hang of the fly rod, there were some dandy Bull trout to be had. With the ban on bulls in Alberta, I’d bet some of my old fishin’ grounds have some dandy bulls (Although I once found a dead 34" bull under the bridge, so even then there were some hogs).     Robbie

Response:

Question:

Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance. Dean Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

My first home rolled rod was built on a 3-piece Winston blank. To my way of thinking, the 3pc. broken-down length was ideal… not quite a suitcase rod, but small enough to fit into the overhead compartment on an airplane. & it was a Winston… Unfortunately, I slipped on an icy rock while attempting some winter fishing and shattered the butt section beyond repair. I’ve made a couple of other 2pc. fly rods since, but they don’t hold a candle to the Winston. my  $.20 Robert Hudson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance. I have a Sage 5-piece, 5-weight. SP and all I can say is that it’s one sweet MF. I needed a pack rod, and I tried various 3-piece and 4-piece rods, but none was better than this one. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Has anyone had any experience with the Winston and Sage 5 piece rods that they would like to share, characteristics / advantages of one over the other, etc.?  I’m specifically interested in the 6W as I’m planning a trip to New Zealand where I’m told the wind blows fierce and the fish are big enough to warrant it.  I’m living overseas (Japan) traveling a lot, and having a rod I can toss into a suitcase or duffel with a reel and a box of flies could make the difference between fishing and not on a given trip.  Please answer via direct e-mail as I do not get a chance to go through the forum as often as I would like.  Thanks in advance.

I have a Sage 5-piece, 5-weight. SP and all I can say is that it’s one sweet MF. I needed a pack rod, and I tried various 3-piece and 4-piece rods, but none was better than this one. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

I’ll chime in with the folks saying this (the aircraft carrier/lighthouse story) is a folk tale. It’s just not plausible. was the radar temporarily fubared for the whole group? EMCON Sorry Crow, I’m afraid you’re going to have to dumb down your explanation for me.  That one went whizzing right be me.

He means "EMission CONtrol" which means that ships are restricted in emitting radar & radio signals so that an enemy would have a harder time tracking and identifying ships, as well as eliminating any chance of jamming. In Navyese this is EMCON. There are several levels, including EMCON ALPHA wherein everything is shut off. I was an engineer, I don’t know all the details about the rest of the scoop. Fresh Breezes- Doug King (former BT2-SW)

Response:

These legends seem to take on a life of their own after a while.  This joke (no mention of exact locations or ship names) was in Reader’s Digest a few years back.  Who knows where it originated, but I’ve heard it many times, always embellished with "factual" information as we see here.  It’s a great joke, but nothing more. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you change your course 15 degrees north that s one five degrees north or countermeasures will be untertaken to insure the safety of this ship canadians: this is a lighthouse. your call. If I were the lighthouse, I would have moved.  No sense arguing with a carrier battle group. BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban legend as well.  But you never know. It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today. Russ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – was the radar temporarily fubared for the whole group? EMCON — Visit : http://www.tiac.net/users/vpt/boats/34.htm Sorry Crow, I’m afraid you’re going to have to dumb down your explanation for me.  That one went whizzing right be me. Russ

Emmission Control.  No radar, radios, etc. allowed.  Under EMCON, makes perfect sense they would send aircraft to investigate. Steve — / / / / / /

Response:

I was a DS on Ranger for two WestPacs, and you don’t know the half of it!   I remember being rousted out of bed because every NTDS track in JOTS was heading due south.   Naturally, we blamed the OS’s immediately, but that didn’t pan out,  so we went to work on the TFCC guys.  ;- The tanker T-Bone was legendary for "Danger Ranger" crews, and after dealing with her inertial navigation systems for four years, I’m surprised it didn’t happen more often. I laugh when I hear about the "High Tech" US Navy. God Bless the CP-642B.  All 32K of core memory in use guiding 80,000 tons of warship, and an entire air wing.  It makes the heart grow fond… Jerome – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even with the latest technology " garbage in garbage out" still applies. I was an OS on the USS Robison when escorting the Carrier Ranger on a West Pac cruise. We warned the Ranger that we had her "CBDR" (Constant bearing decreasing range) with an unknown contact. We were ~1 mile behind, the Ranger basically blew off our warnings, so we noted it in the log book. The carrier as usual was way off sync with our NTDS network grid. Of coarse the small ship can’t tell the big ship they are wrong;-) All of us that were not on station at the time went out to watch as at the last minute the carrier realized they were going to crash with the Malasian oil tanker, they threw everything into "full reverse", but T-boned the tanker anyway. Never forget that noise! Our ship was sent to circle the tanker to assist the crew, It’s side amidships was crushed in with a big V from the carrier. Oil dumped everywhere of coarse and everyone got sick with the smell of fuel.

Response:

He means "EMission CONtrol" which means that ships are restricted in emitting radar & radio signals so that an enemy would have a harder time tracking and identifying ships, as well as eliminating any chance of jamming. In Navyese this is EMCON. There are several levels, including EMCON ALPHA wherein everything is shut off. I was an engineer, I don’t know all the details about the rest of the scoop.

Understood, thanks. RG

Response:

Emmission Control.  No radar, radios, etc. allowed.  Under EMCON, makes perfect sense they would send aircraft to investigate.

Got it.  Now that I understand EMCON, it does make perfect sense to launch A/C.  Thanks Russ

Response:

Ah – memories of the GOO (Gulf of Oman) – should we even mention the US missile cruiser that engaged a cloud with a Harpoon surface to surface missile in the Gulf of Sidra during our skirmishes with the Libyans.  I should mention, however, that the cloud was destroyed… I’ve heard the battlegroup-lighthouse story about a thousand times – my experience as a US Navy bridge watch officer leads me to believe that if anything like that ever really happened, the battlegroup wouldn’t hesitate to give way since we used to run away from surface contacts on a regular basis, unless, of course we were intent on ruining someone’s day. TK

Response:

Emmission Control.  No radar, radios, etc. allowed.  Under EMCON, makes perfect sense they would send aircraft to investigate.

Got it.  Now that I understand EMCON, it does make perfect sense to launch A/C.  Thanks

Depends on the aircraft. If the TACAN (radio navigation system) is off, some of those flyboys can’t find their butt in the bathtub. Finding their way to the carrier? Hey, those things look *really* small from the air! I’d hate to be the one who lost a $50mil+ aircraft to go investigate an old fishing boat. OTOH, I have seen F-14s buzzing a Soviet Bear doing a fly-by when we were at EMCON A because there were bad guys about. Hell, one guy matched speeds, put his landing gear down, and banged down on top of the poor Russki. "We don’ need no stinkin’ TACAN." Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Response:

BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban legend as well.  But you never know. It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today.

I heard that it wasn’t a lighthouse but a large GMC 4×4 with its bright lights on. Then I found out that was only a Suburban legend. Steve

Response:

Emmission Control.  No radar, radios, etc. allowed.  Under EMCON, makes perfect sense they would send aircraft to investigate. Got it.  Now that I understand EMCON, it does make perfect sense to launch A/C.  Thanks

Except this is classified information, you will now have to be shot;-) Ray Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

Response:

was the radar temporarily fubared for the whole group? EMCON — Visit : http://www.tiac.net/users/vpt/boats/34.htm

Sorry Crow, I’m afraid you’re going to have to dumb down your explanation for me.  That one went whizzing right be me. Russ

Response:

It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today.

Well it wasn’t today, but its not that many years ago either, well on second thought a decade might be long to some.  On any account while enjoying a bit of whats known as holiday routine in that section of the planet known for its warmth and sunshine "Gonzo station" (the North Arabian Sea for the non navy types) my ship (I’ll leave the name out to save face) starts tracking a skunk (unknown surface radar contact) approaching the battle group at almost 40 knots.   At that speed the platform was considered to be a fast attack missile boat…in simple terms a threat.  The ship went to GQ (Battle Station) without the word even being passed, and the Carrier (USS Kitty Hawk) launched its ready 5 aircraft.  A few moments later from the other end of CIC (Combat Information Center) a voice rings out (I’ll leave the superlatives out) to one of the scope watches who evidently had accidently switched all the gyro information into the radar’s off.  Once the gyro signal was restored to the radar the skunk’s speed decreased to 12 knots which correlated to an outbound merchant. So even with the Tech stuff, things do go wrong. Might as well throw in quickly another funny incident aboard, One night the OOD calls CIC and the lookouts and commences to chew them out for not reporting anything about a light on the horizon.  The radar operators search but can’t locate anything on their scopes.  Then we hear….Bridge this is the forward lookout, please inform the OOD that the light he wanted to know about is the moon rising.

Response:

was the radar temporarily fubared for the whole group?

EMCON — Visit : http://www.tiac.net/users/vpt/boats/34.htm

Response:

It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today. Well it wasn’t today, but its not that many years ago either, well on second thought a decade might be long to some.   A few moments later from

the other end of CIC (Combat Information Center) a voice rings out (I’ll leave the superlatives out) to one of the scope watches who evidently had accidently switched all the gyro information into the radar’s off.  Once the gyro signal was restored to the radar the skunk’s speed decreased to 12 knots which correlated to an outbound merchant. So even with the Tech stuff, things do go wrong. Might as well throw in quickly another funny incident aboard, One night the OOD calls CIC and the lookouts and commences to chew them out for not reporting anything about a light on the horizon.  The radar operators search but can’t locate anything on their scopes.  Then we hear….Bridge this is the forward lookout, please inform the OOD that the light he wanted to know about is the moon rising.

Even with the latest technology " garbage in garbage out" still applies. I was an OS on the USS Robison when escorting the Carrier Ranger on a West Pac cruise. We warned the Ranger that we had her "CBDR" (Constant bearing decreasing range) with an unknown contact. We were ~1 mile behind, the Ranger basically blew off our warnings, so we noted it in the log book. The carrier as usual was way off sync with our NTDS network grid. Of coarse the small ship can’t tell the big ship they are wrong;-) All of us that were not on station at the time went out to watch as at the last minute the carrier realized they were going to crash with the Malasian oil tanker, they threw everything into "full reverse", but T-boned the tanker anyway. Never forget that noise! Our ship was sent to circle the tanker to assist the crew, It’s side amidships was crushed in with a big V from the carrier. Oil dumped everywhere of coarse and everyone got sick with the smell of fuel. Then there was the time leaving Tahiti when the Skipper ordered the line handlers to get in their dress whites, not realizing that one line to the Tug was still attached. Not a real tug, one of those small foreign jobs. The Skipper (who no one really respected btw) ordered up a speed that was faster than the tug could go, with the line still attached and now very tight the tug crew tried to cut and remove the line, but it was to late. The tug first went backwards and then flipped over. A funny sight watching the tug crew standing on top of the overturned hull yelling and screaming, with the propeller still turning. But the deck hands did change into their dress whites;-)) Or the time we took out a pilon at San Francisco’s Fishermens warf pier Where that sub is now. I guess we should have realized this Skipper was a real bozo when the first time we went to sea he barfed all over the entrance to CIC. Thankfully this skipper didn’t last long and the others I served under were pretty cool. Time frame was the "Big one" (Carter Administration). Ray Relax- Take a San Diego Cyber Cruise! www.sdboats.com

Response:

[...] US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you change your course 15 degrees north that s one five degrees north or countermeasures will be untertaken to insure the safety of this ship canadians: this is a lighthouse. your call.

If I were the lighthouse, I would have moved.  No sense arguing with a carrier battle group. BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban legend as well.  But you never know. Steve — / / / / / /

Response:

     BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban      legend as well.  But you never know. There are earlier versions of this story, using signal lights. I’m sure it’s true, but it happened at least a hundred years ago. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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     BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban      legend as well.  But you never know. There are earlier versions of this story, using signal lights. I’m sure it’s true, but it happened at least a hundred years ago.

I can more easily believe a hundred years ago.  I’ve heard so many different versions of this story with the details being different that they all can’t be true.  Ever play whisper down the lane? Steve — / / / / / /

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     United States Ship Abraham Lincoln was NEVER involved in a radio exchange like that.  I have heard the story before, I will research to see if I can identify the vessel, if it was Navy. — Whenever, I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul…I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can.  This is my substitute for pistol and ball.  With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword, I quietly take to the ship.   Ishmael/Moby Dick

  jollytar.vcf

< 1K Download

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you change your course 15 degrees north that s one five degrees north or countermeasures will be untertaken to insure the safety of this ship canadians: this is a lighthouse. your call. If I were the lighthouse, I would have moved.  No sense arguing with a carrier battle group. BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban legend as well.  But you never know.

It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today. Russ

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ROFLMAO ! — — Jim Never fight with a bear in his own cave.

|this is not rec.boats but it is boats and it s kinda funny also some |skippers may get a laugh or maby heard it ? |this is a transcript of an actual radio conversation of a US naval ship |with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland released |10-10-95 by the chief of naval operations | |US:  please divert your course 15 degrees to the north to avoid a |collision | |Canadians:  reccommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the south to |avoid a collision | |US:  this is the captain of a us navy ship i say again divert your |course | |Canadains: no i say again you divert your course | |US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in |the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three |destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you |change your course 15 degrees north that s one five degrees north or |countermeasures will be untertaken to insure the safety of this ship | |canadians: this is a lighthouse. your call.

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I am sure this is an urban legend, but it is still one hell of a good story — — Jim Never fight with a bear in his own cave.

| |[...] | US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in | the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three | destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you | change your course 15 degrees north that s one five degrees north or | countermeasures will be untertaken to insure the safety of this ship | | canadians: this is a lighthouse. your call. | |If I were the lighthouse, I would have moved.  No sense arguing with a carrier |battle group. | |BTW, I’ve heard stories like this before and I think they are urban legend as |well.  But you never know. | |Steve | |– |/ / / |/ / /

Response:

Can it be an urban legend if it didn’t take place in a city? Just wondering. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure this is an urban legend, but it is still one hell of a good story — — Jim Never fight with a bear in his own cave. | |[...] | US: this is the aircraft carrier uss lincoln the second largest ship in | the united states atlantic fleet . we are accompanied by three | destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels . i demmand you

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a funny story, but c’mon.  A USN Carrier Battle Group:  The most technologically advanced hardware afloat anywhere with a highly trained crew that sails 24/7 as a way of life.  Mistaking a lighthouse for an approaching vessel.  Sorry, I’m not buying.  Not today. Well it wasn’t today, but its not that many years ago either, well on second thought a decade might be long to some.  On any account while enjoying a bit of whats known as holiday routine in that section of the planet known for its warmth and sunshine "Gonzo station" (the North Arabian Sea for the non navy types) my ship (I’ll leave the name out to save face) starts tracking a skunk (unknown surface radar contact) approaching the battle group at almost 40 knots.   At that speed the platform was considered to be a fast attack missile boat…in simple terms a threat.  The ship went to GQ (Battle Station) without the word even being passed, and the Carrier (USS Kitty Hawk) launched its ready 5 aircraft.  A few moments later from the other end of CIC (Combat Information Center) a voice rings out (I’ll leave the superlatives out) to one of the scope watches who evidently had accidently switched all the gyro information into the radar’s off.  Once the gyro signal was restored to the radar the skunk’s speed decreased to 12 knots which correlated to an outbound merchant. So even with the Tech stuff, things do go wrong. Might as well throw in quickly another funny incident aboard, One night the OOD calls CIC and the lookouts and commences to chew them out for not reporting anything about a light on the horizon.  The radar operators search but can’t locate anything on their scopes.  Then we hear….Bridge this is the forward lookout, please inform the OOD that the light he wanted to know about is the moon rising.

Jeez, whatya tryin’ to do, scare the bejeezus outa me?  The moon story I can easily understand because it is one guy suffering a temporary anal/cranal inversion (head up his arse).  But wouldn’t the skunk threat have been verified or denied by other vessels in the group before launching A/C?  Or was the radar temporarily fubared for the whole group? Russ

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Question:

I plan to be in Carlsbad, NM, the first part of October, 1998.  Does anyone know of any fly fishing places in that area? Thanks Al Carlton

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Not for any cold water species !  That IS the desert southwest .

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Question:

I’ll be taking a trip to Los Angeles next week.  Anyone know of places near LA/SD for saltwater fly fishing?    Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor,MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o

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King harbour, Redondo Beach, renown for 1/2 bonita on the fly.  See "inside Angler"

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Question:

you might visit http://www.troutangler.com they wont be too far out of your way. — happy trails, Mike Foate Polo Ponies, Ranch Vacation, Web Site Design http://www.rockinghorseranch.com

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Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing???? (catch & release, too) Accomodation suggestions?? Thanks in advance. Giovanni from Italy.

Response:

Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing????

That is not enough time!   20 Lakes Basin east of Yosemite. Walker River, north on Hwy. 395 Truckee River north of there. Across Nevada and Utah, hit the all of the larger streams/rivers in CO.   —  markb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Giovanni from Italy.

Response:

Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing???? (catch & release, too) Accomodation suggestions?? Thanks in advance. Giovanni from Italy.

Giovanni: The period you will be fishing is pretty much dead in the middle of the "normal" spring runoff here in the Rockies.  With that in mind, you may find yourself sticking to tailwater streams below artificial lakes.  Another possibility is some of the lakes themselves. Here in Utah, three of the better-known tailwaters are the Green River below Flaming Gorge Reservoir, the Provo River below Jordanelle and Deer Creek Reservoirs, and Currant Creek below Currant Creek Reservoir.  All have extremely good fishing at times although the Provo and the Green tend to get a *lot* or pressure so the fish are fairly educated.  You can wade fish all of those streams, but you would probably have more luck on the Green if you hire a guide for a float trip – it’s a *big* river. I don’t know what your opinion of lake fishing with flies is, but there can be some very good fishing that time of year in some of the lakes in Utah. Strawberry Reservoir (about 1.5 hours south and east of Salt Lake City) is the premier lake in Utah, but there are many others that offer good fishing if you have a float tube or other type of boat.. Up in Wyoming, the New Fork River near Pinedale has the reputation as fishing the best early in the season, but there is very little public water.  You can, however, do float trips with a number of guide operations. I’ve never fished it, but the Ham’s Fork River outside Kemmerer is supposed to be very good.  Most of the other streams are fairly likely to be very high from runoff that time of year. A possible thought would be lake fishing on private water.  Western Rivers Flyfishing shop in Salt Lake City offers day trips on a number of lakes at a private ranch called L C Ranch.  Supposed to be VERY good fishing and they provide everything you might need. Good luck.  Accomodations are pretty easy that time of year here in Utah. Email me direct if you have any other questions. Bob

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Question:

[...] The only unquestionably true, authentic, genuine trout is the brown, _salmo trutta_.

Not quite true.  There is also Salmo salar, the atlantic salmon which is actually a trout (at least the last time I looked – it may have been reclassified since…) Regards, John — Dr. John Hardie Indiana University Cyclotron Facility

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  <snip a lake trout. I was under the impression that the tell-tale sign of their chardom is the white band on the bottom of their bottom fins,   <snip

I have caught and also seen photographs of brown trout having white (or at least cream-colored) leading edges on some of their fins.  I don’t recall seeing this on the pectoral fins. August K. Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

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Brook trout are charr, not trout — James R. Babb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?                    thanks.

Response:

[...] The only unquestionably true, authentic, genuine trout is the brown, _salmo trutta_. Not quite true.  There is also Salmo salar, the atlantic salmon which is actually a trout (at least the last time I looked – it may have been reclassified since…) Regards, John — Dr. John Hardie Indiana University Cyclotron Facility

To every one who is watching this thread: Do you think the fish know this?  I hope the brookie’s ego doesn’t get bruised.  So let me get this: some trout and  salmon are really char, but there is a salmon that is really a trout.  White wine from red grapes is called blush, Tomatoes are fruit, but ketchup is a vegetable,  peanuts aren’t nuts or peas.  We park in a driveway and drive on a parkway. Class dismissed! all kidding aside, thanks for the info, this is why NG’s are here so we can learn something and have some fun at it.  

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I note Robert that you are from Maine and commented on brook trout. I am an outdoors columnist in Canada, and am curious about two subspecies of rare trout. One I believe exists in Maine. Do you have any info. on this? I ask because I am interested in trout and enjoy catching (primarily release most) unusual or rare strains.

Is it safe to presume that you’re referring to Blueback trout? Actuaally another artic char subspecies – and a rare if not endangered one, for sure. Or perhaps the Sunapee Golden trout (actually Yet Another Rare Artic Char – Salvilinus alpinus oquassa)? btw: Being a neighbor to our north, are you familiar with the Red Trout – which is native to Quebec – and another member of the Salvilinus alpinus group? I believe all three of these fish are described as "relics" today… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Thanks, John, for starting such an interesting thread on the truth about Brookies… I’d like to suggest that everyone interested in the origins, history, genetic makeup of our favorite fish, read a new book by ichthyologist Nick Karas entitled, appropriately,  BROOK TROUT. It is being published by Lyons & Burford and should be in stores in late March/early April. Email me if you have any questions…  Krista

Response:

If Brookies aren’t trout, they’re doing a damn fine imitation. Anglerboy

Response:

The bull trout and Dolly Varden, which are char, also have the white tipped fins.

So do some strains of rainbows. Though not the hatchery trout I see. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

   Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?                    thanks.

Brookies aren’t trout … they’re char.

Response:

their chardom is the white band on the bottom of their bottom fins, though I don’t know if other char have this too; would be interested in hearing. The bull trout and Dolly Varden, which are char, also have the white tipped fins. -Burton

In Scotland our native Arctic Char have the beautiful white outline too. Just Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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In article    Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Systematic taxonomists classify the fish we know as "brook trout" as belonging to the genus _Salvelinus_ (the chars) and not _Salmo_ (the trouts).  The "lake trout" is also a char, but for some reason the popular name of the "Arctic char" (_Salvelinus alpinus_) recognizes that this fish is indeed a char.  There are minor differences between chars and trouts, which are usually of interest only to fisheries scientists.  The clearest visible difference between chars and trouts is that char have lighter-colored spots on a darker-background body, while trout have dark spots on a lighter body.  Scientific names and classifications shift and change; you probably know that the rainbow trout, long considered a true trout (_Salmo_) was reclassified several years ago and placed among the Pacific salmon (_Oncorhyncus_).  But this reclassification didn’t cause rainbow trout to immediately die after spawning, like all their brethren in _Oncorhynchus_.  A wild, native brook trout is a wonderful creature, no matter what name we give it. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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Brook trout are not true trouts! They are a member of the char family so they are actually the small cousins of lake trout, artic char and dolly varden.   But enough of genetic, they’re great pan fried!                                      Leif da Lucky

Response:

I note Robert that you are from Maine and commented on brook trout. I am an outdoors columnist in Canada, and am curious about two subspecies of rare trout. One I believe exists in Maine. Do you have any info. on this? I ask because I am interested in trout and enjoy catching (primarily release most) unusual or rare strains. Tight Lines Don Stokes Outdoors Columnist

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article       Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Systematic taxonomists classify the fish we know as "brook trout" as belonging to the genus _Salvelinus_ (the chars) and not _Salmo_ (the trouts).  The "lake trout" is also a char, but for some reason the popular name of the "Arctic char" (_Salvelinus alpinus_) recognizes that this fish is indeed a char.  There are minor differences between chars and trouts, which are usually of interest only to fisheries scientists.  The clearest visible difference between chars and trouts is that char have lighter-colored spots on a darker-background body, while trout have dark spots on a lighter body.  Scientific names and classifications shift and change; you probably know that the rainbow trout, long considered a true trout (_Salmo_) was reclassified several years ago and placed among the Pacific salmon (_Oncorhyncus_).  But this reclassification didn’t cause rainbow trout to immediately die after spawning, like all their brethren in _Oncorhynchus_.  A wild, native brook trout is a wonderful creature, no matter what name we give it. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Hi Bob Great bit of information. I hope you don’t mind if I save it for future reference. Good Tying &…. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

: :         Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried : to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have : an opinion on this? : :                         thanks. : We tend to generically treat them as trout, however they are char.  Char are : distinguished by the white at the tips of their fins. I believe they real difference is in the dentition.  Char have teeth on their tongues and true trout (salmo) don’t.  At least I believe thats where the teeth differ. — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Response:

: John, : Best to concede early on this one.  Brook trout are not truly trout, but : rather char.  All fall under the family heading of salmonid and then brook : trout fall in the salvelinus genus, rainbows in the oncorhynchus genus and When did rainbows get reclassified?   I would find placing them in the oncorhyncus genus very difficult.  Their physiology is very differnt as well as physical characteristics.  Was this done based on molecular genetics? : browns in the salmo genus. The practical distinction is that char have : light spots on a dark background.  There are skull structure differences. : Char scales are especially tiny in comparison as well.  Hope this helps. : James Ehlers : Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service : Underhill, VT — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : :         Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried : to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout.  Does anyone have : an opinion on this? : :                         thanks. : We tend to generically treat them as trout, however they are char.  Char are : distinguished by the white at the tips of their fins. I believe they real difference is in the dentition.  Char have teeth on their tongues and true trout (salmo) don’t.  At least I believe that’s where the teeth differ.

Colour is more visible, but teeth are more reliable.  Char (or equally correctly charr) have only a few teeth on the front of the vomer (broadly speaking the palate), and trout have a full set of vomerine teeth. Generally, charr have light spots, and trout have dark spots. I owe these tidbits to Calabi’s "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Fly-Fishing."

Response:

In article    Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Technically, your friend is right.  The brook trout is a char, genus -salvelinus- .  The other members of this genus are the lake trout, dolly varden, bull trout, arctic char, and European char.  The whole issue of what’s a true trout has recently been stirred up by biologists who have reclassified the rainbow, cutthroat, and golden trout into the genus _oncorrhyncus_ with the Pacific salmon (chinook, coho, chum, et al).  The only unquestionably true, authentic, genuine trout is the brown, _salmo trutta_.      On the other hand, who cares?  The members of the genera salvelinus, salmo, and oncorrhyncus resemble each other closely in general morphology.  If common usage makes brookies, lakers, dollies, bulls, ‘bows, cutts, and brownies all trout, that’s fine with me.  –Roger

Response:

*  The only unquestionably true, authentic, genuine trout is the brown, _salmo trutta_.      Actually, the Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar, also belongs to the same genus as the brown trout.  Just thought I’d add a little more confusion to everyone’s day. el coyotero

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this? John: Don’t think it’s a matter of opinon, as the other more technical minded responder wrote, they are a char. So, if my recollection is correct, is a lake trout. I was under the impression that the tell-tale sign of their chardom is the white band on the bottom of their bottom fins, though I don’t know if other char have this too; would be interested in hearing. Cheers TB

//snip TGB, you’re right regarding Brook trout and lake trout belonging to the char family (salvelinus). Other north american char are bull trout, dolly varden, sunapee, siscowet and – arctic char. All char species have light spots and light bands on their bottom fins; the coloration is more or less pronounced and varies from white (e.g. arctic char) to pale pink  (e.g. dolly varden) and yellowish (e.g. lake trout), depending on the species. /Tord

Response:

        Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

John: Don’t think it’s a matter of opinon, as the other more technical minded responder wrote, they are a char. So, if my recollection is correct, is a lake trout. I was under the impression that the tell-tale sign of their chardom is the white band on the bottom of their bottom fins, though I don’t know if other char have this too; would be interested in hearing. Cheers TB The workings of great institutions is mainly the result of a vast mass of routine, petty malice, self-interest, carelessness, and sheer mistake. Only a residual fraction is thought." Santayana

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this? John: Don’t think it’s a matter of opinon, as the other more technical minded responder wrote, they are a char. So, if my recollection is correct, is a lake trout. I was under the impression that the tell-tale sign of their chardom is the white band on the bottom of their bottom fins, though I don’t know if other char have this too; would be interested in hearing.

The bull trout and Dolly Varden, which are char, also have the white tipped fins. -Burton

Response:

        Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?                         thanks.

We tend to generically treat them as trout, however they are char.  Char are distinguished by the white at the tips of their fins. -Burton

Response:

        Excuse my ignorance, but a friend of mine is convinced, and tried to convince me, that Brook Trout aren’t actually trout. Does anyone have an opinion on this?                         thanks.

Response:

John, Best to concede early on this one.  Brook trout are not truly trout, but rather char.  All fall under the family heading of salmonid and then brook trout fall in the salvelinus genus, rainbows in the oncorhynchus genus and browns in the salmo genus. The practical distinction is that char have light spots on a dark background.  There are skull structure differences. Char scales are especially tiny in comparison as well.  Hope this helps. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Underhill, VT

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Question:

Hi I live in Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur) and I would really like to go somewhere and do some fly fishing in Malaysia. The problem is that I have not been able to find anything about fly fishing here. It seems like this sport has not arrived here yet. Is there anyone out there who can help me on this. I started fly fishing in Sweden, but moved to Malaysia before I really got the hang of it. So I do need to get starting again. Also, is there a shop where I can buy stuff for tying my own flies here? Thanks for any replies /Bengt Thur