Question:

[snip] All in all, it was a pretty typical outing, tho shorter than most.

Somehow, I missed this TR but it has a familiar ring to it.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Darn sight safer than coming out of the Air & Space Museum at 11:30 and the car won’t start or hitting a pothole on 295 and blowing two tires!  Now THAT will crease your seat! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Thanks.  I assume that you fished there after dark.  Did you  feel reasonably safe doing that ? After dark is best on stripers with an in-running tide.  Try a black Clouser with yellow eyes and a touch of Crystal Flash. —

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I too caught a channel cat in the Potomac many years ago, almost in the same spot that you did.  Judging by my very limited sample, there must be a lot of them in  there.  I caught a good-sized one above the Chain Bridge last  year.  I was sure that I had a nice largemouth on until I saw it.  I did a good amount of heavy-duty rowing for that one.

I foul-hooked a couple of cats this spring.  Lots of fun until it is time to take them off the hook… The first time I fished there this year, I was on the VA side below Chain Bridge.  I wasn’t having much luck, but a Good Old Boy was reeling in catfish after catfish after catfish.  After a while, he shouted across from me, bragging about his catching and my not.  When I complemented him on doing so well, he told me that last week was better.  He took home 57 catfish after a day’s fishing.  Ate them in one sitting.  Fed his entire family.  The DC license states, in big letters, not to eat catfish, carp, or eels because they are full of PCBs.  I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.  I don’t think he had a DC license to read. JR

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 Ok.  I asked because when I was at Fletcher’s one evening,  the owner there was anxious to close up to avoid taking a  chance on being held up.

On the evening of my encounter with the GOB, I walked back up to the parking area on the VA side of Chain Bridge to find the extended cab window on the passenger side broken.  Lost a book of CDs.  Does that count? John

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 that well and the travel rod I was using wasn’t ideal for a heavy  Teeny/clouser combo.   I’d get the line out 45-50 feet, which meant  that the fly reached bottom just as it was passing the boat, and  was rising back up no more than 10 feet later.

I used to have a hell of a time throwing sinking lines with my soft St. Croix Pro Graphite until I learned to make an underhand backcast.  I too caught a channel cat in the Potomac many years ago, almost in the same spot that you did. Mu

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After dark is best on stripers with an in-running tide.  Try a black Clouser with yellow eyes and a touch of Crystal Flash. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Just upstream from downtown DC, the Potomac flows  through a heavily wooded gorge alongside the Chesapeake  and Ohio Canal.   Up a ways, but still within DC limits,  is Fletcher’s Boat House, a family business of some 100  years of renting rowboats and canoes.  Also at this time of  the year there are striped bass in the river, and I hadn’t  had a chance to fish for those since late last summer.  According to the boat house web site reports, early morning  was the best time for the stripers.  That aligned neatly with  a late start for meetings on Sunday.  I grabbed a cab from  my hotel and was at the boat house at a quarter to six.  The  boat house was still closed, but one of the owners was down  on the dock getting ready to fish.  He offered to let me take a  rowboat on a promise to do the paperwork and payment when  I got back.  The boat house sits on a shallow inlet.  On the outer edge  of the inlet on the upstream side is a shoal marked by a buoy.  I rowed for that spot, intending to fish the seam between  the river and the inlet just below the shoal.  Since the river  moves at a good clip in the main channel and the water is at  least 10 feet deep, I decided to use my Teeny 300 line.  By now it was 6 AM.  None of the usual weekday noises – from  cars, planes, helicopters –  were in the air, and I could imagine  myself back three hundred years, with nothing downstream  but water and woods, and herring surfacing all over.  I tried a #1 hook clouser first, since I figured that I had the best  chance of getting close to the bottom with it on the fast side of  the seam.  I had some problems with that, since I don’t cast all  that well and the travel rod I was using wasn’t ideal for a heavy Teeny/clouser combo.   I’d get the line out 45-50 feet, which meant  that the fly reached bottom just as it was passing the boat, and  was rising back up no more than 10 feet later.  After a bit of this, casting on both sides of the seam, I decided to  try a white deceiver, tied on a 1/0 hook, partly because it came  closest to looking like the herring that were all over the river.   I  concentrated on the slow side of the seam, letting out some  additional line and letting it dangle, twitching it a bit, when it  was fully downstream from me.  The third time down, something  clobbered the deceiver and I had my first striper on !   Well, a  little striper.  Well, maybe something else.  Well, how about a  modest-sized channel cat ?  Things continued to go downhill after that: I lost the deceiver  on the following cast, then several clousers.  The Fletcher  Boat House guy was fishing upstream from me a ways, and  seemed to have a fish on his line every time I looked up.  I told  myself that he was just bait-fishing, but I didn’t *really* know  that for sure.  Then I snagged bottom again.  Deciding I had lost  one fly too many,  I pulled anchor determined to recover my fly and  then try a slow-moving chute between two large boulders about 100 feet away.  With the anchor up the boat begin to drift quickly  with the current.  Grabbing the oars, while holding on to the rod, I  tried to manipulate three ungainly objects with two hands and in one  of those series of moves –    the very complicated ones which the  great athletes make look easy –  I snapped the fly rod in two.  I rowed back to shore, docked, and watched two deer graze within  40 feet of me before they sauntered off into the woods.  I walked up  to the boat house, now open, with my busted weapon in hand.  Owner #2 gave me some coffee in consolation and then offered to  lend me one of his spinning rods.  I told him that he didn’t *really*  want to do that.  He assured me that he broke as many rods as I did.  I assured him that he didn’t.  All in all, it was a pretty typical outing, tho shorter than most.

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Question:

And of course Marinaro, Sawyer, Skues, Falkus, to name but a few.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot. TL MC

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Mike Connor: <<One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. I had forgotten about him.  When reading about Halford a few years ago, someone told me about Skues, and you are correct in all aspects. Dave

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. Compared to him Halford was a tyro and a bigot.

I’ve always been perplexed by attempts to identify the greatest "______" of the century, millennium, all time, etc.  In the first place, I don’t see the point. Secondly, how to choose from among all the obvious candidates given the arbitrary nature of the endeavor.  Third, and most important I believe, is the fact that we really don’t know who should even be considered as candidates.  For example, I suspect there is a very good chance that the greatest baseball player of the century is someone no one ever heard of who resided in The Dominican Republic or Cuba.  The greatest fly fisherman of the century might well be a Hungarian who never rose to public attention and who died in WWI.  The smartest person in the world is a Chinese peasant woman who never attended school; at least that is my bet for statistical reasons.  After all, I have NO other criteria by which to judge.  Even when we narrow the criteria by which we judge the "greatest whatever" to the point where the vast majority are automatically eliminated we virtually never get any great degree of consensus.  Even something as simple as "the greatest single season home run hitter in American professional baseball" is open to endless debate because the conditions under which the individual candidates played are so varied.

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Well, even though compiling a list of the Century’s greatest flyfishers strikes me as being almost as silly as a flyfishing tournament — turning something which is essentially non-competitive into some sort of game with winners and losers — I’d have to say that any such list would be incomplete without Bill Schaadt (sp?) and Roderick Haig-Brown (okay, he’s a gimme). So, I guess I just struck myself silly . – sid

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One of the greatest flyfishermen of all time was George Edward Mackenzie Skues. His analytical mind, the depth and thoroughness of his investigations and conclusions, and the wide front on which he applied them were breathtaking in their scope and ramifications. TL MC

Criterion is the key.  Arguements can, at least somewhat, be narrowed with their application.  Could we not say Lee Wulff for bringing fly fishing to the masses?  Like a fine steak or hardwood, it matters how you cut in relation to the grain. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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<SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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It occurred to me that all such deliberations are more or less arbitrary in any case. In the case of some sportsmen it is possible to base a decision on how many games they won, how many runs or hits ( or whatever ) they achieved. In many other cases this is not so. You are probably right that the whole thing is pointless, but then so is a great deal of human discussion and endeavour, so what the hell ! TL MC

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I think that we can rank the people that have contributed most to our sport, but not the "greatest" fly fishermen.  Most of a person’s ability to contribute to the sport depend on a number of factors other than skill in fly fishing.  Some of these are: the ability to write and get published, fame in areas other than fly fishing, an engaging personality, and of course money. Many of the most famous fly fishermen are not especially good anglers but are good at other things that make them famous. As Sid said, ours is not a competitive sport that is judged by results and statistics. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP Agreed.  But if we confine ourselves to known people then a relative judgement of their contributions is usually possible. As you say, no data is available on unknown people, and so including them in the deliberations really would be an exercise in futility. TL MC

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I nominate Don Bastian of Lycoming County, PA for his incredible tenacity on the water, his unparalled tying skills, his ability to take one look at a pool and to know it’s ways and feeding lanes intimately and for his legendary prowess as a nymph fisherman…  But mostly I nominate him because if he sees this, he will surely send me $20.00

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Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.<

Guess I forgot the <g.  I was inspired by Ted Williams. <g

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Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat!

I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model.< Me too. <g

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Bob, We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

Why ?

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After watching the Century’s Greatest Baseball Players, the thought occurred to me that it would be terrific to acknowledge the Century’s greatest flyfishers. Ted Williams would make both lists. Bob Elliott

It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career". on-topic: I nominate Mark Cathey to the Century’s Greatest Flyfishers list. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments.

I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot.

IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy. — Ken Fortenberry

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We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you

compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish?

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I thought it was disgusting that they allowed that scumball

into a major league ballpark. It was a mistake to allow him on the ballot in the first place but once the fans elected him they should have played a Rose video like they did for the dead guys. Under no circumstances should a low-life like Rose have been allowed to sully the national pastime in person.< Wake up alone with a hard-on this morning?

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Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Wouldn’t that qualify George!  Or maybe George and TBone in a dead heat! I think I would prefer the Estee Lauder model. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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HRBlaine: <<We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous?   Does (s)he fly fish? Mmmmmm, not good enough, really.  I’ve fished with a well known illustrator and he can’t fish worth a shit.  Eisenhower couldn’t catch fish in a freshly stocked stream in Maine.  Ted Williams was a great ball player who entertained himself in the off-season by fly fishing.  He also did fly fishing/sportsmen shows each spring when I was a kid.  He probably qualifies.  Names such as Wulff, Swisher, Kaufman, LaFontaine, Art Flick, Graham Marsh first come to mind.  And, of course, how can we forget the Halfordian himself, Halford. Dave L.

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IMO the Atlanta crowd has shit for brains and Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Fame.

Ken, I’m no fan of Rose. Afterall, he did "sully" the game (and worse yet, ended Fosse’s career in a home plate collision in a All Star game) as did Mays (who was on stage) and Steinbrenner (felony conviction) and countless others who have misstepped at times. However, Rose’s onfield accomplishments speak loudly for the man. How can you ignore the greatest hitter the game has ever seen? Jim Gray should be in the Hall of Shame. OBROFF: I nominate Watauga Walt, inventor of the foam humpy.

My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^) Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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We determine greatness in a ball player by his stats.  How do you compile stats on a fly fisher?  What criteria could we use.< Simple enuf.  Is (s)he famous? Does (s)he fly fish?

Hm…..Bill Clinton is famous….Herbert Hoover was famous….Dwight Eisenhower was famous….Jimmy Carter is famous…….

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… My greatness is not in tying the fly, my "greatness" is getting you to fish it without a hook to rising/striking fish on Wilson’s Creek, unquestionably a feat of excellence and a prank I wholeheartedly deny q;^)

I’m proud to have provided you good old boys with such mirth and merriment and I must admit, as fishing pranks go, that was without a doubt one of the finest. I should have known there’d be a price to pay for being a yankee in Avery county. — Ken Fortenberry

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It was great to see Ted out there. It was equally great to see Pete Rose acknowledged for his lasting accomplishments. I was dismayed to see that jerk-off reporter "interview" Rose afterwords. What a moron that guy was. Pete, just having received the finest ovation and recognition from the Atlanta crowd is interviewed by a complete idiot. IMO, all athletes should band together and refuse to be interviewed by that jerk, effectively ending his "career".

I never liked Pete Rose.   I don’t know exactly why, but he always just irritated me.   Fortunately for me, I was an American League fan, so I saw very little of him.   Screw that "Charlie Hustle" bs.   That glorified crap ended the career of another good ballplayer (Fosse) in a meaningless exhibition game. Having put those cards on the table, I agree with Walt.   That NBC reporter was a Grade-A jerk, and Rose handled the ambush as well as a man could. They may have been good questions, but it was the wrong place and the wrong time.   A complete lack of respect for the game. Joe F.

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Question:

Well, you don’t really seem to get my point, Shawnie. THIS IS ALT.SUPPORT.DEPRESSION.MANIC!!! Your war against darkman, who I see as a very compassionate, caring, knowledgeable individual DOES NOT FIT IN HERE! (and yes, I know it is rude to shout. But so are you bringing this here.)

| | |Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this |group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different |feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? | |You don’t know how my cgi guestbook works. I don’t really care how your CGI guestbook works. I suggested you got a different kind of guestbook. | | Not much of a |change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track |a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. | | |not when they use an anonymizer service. No matter. You can still moderate your guestbook and remove obscene messages. I am sure you don’t have such a traffic-volume that this would be a problem. Obscene, anonymized mails could be dealth with – they are always marked with the anon-service abuse-address. I hope you take this fight to another place. It is common netiquette to post ontopic. Haakon

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know what darkman has done and does do for me and you will NEVER convince me that he is the sicko doing this to you. So just deal with it privately and leave the rest of us the HELL alone. I am sick of your posts! — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

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darkman frm hell – @38.30.246 / http:// Kill all the runts! let them all die!  Shawnie is a whore and a slut! She fucked her  counsellour then tried to kill him. Signed on: Thu Nov 19 20:59:37 EST 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

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Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon

| | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

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What is your problem with darkman? Why do you think everyone who calls themselves Darkman are the same person? I am having SERIOUS problems right now and darkman is helping me more than anyone else around. He is hunting up info for me, he is encouraging me (not that a lot of you aren’t helping also). But make sure of your facts before attacking someone who is doing so much good. — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

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It is against the law to publicly post private e-mail and it certainly does not belong in this forum.  You are doing the same type of thing that darkman is doing to me. He is taking posts of mine on this NG that I Posted just days after getting out of the hospital and posting them to my guestbooks.  He also e-mails them to me as a form of harassment.  Yes I know it is him his e-mail program used the same reply to e-mail address that he uses here in the NG’s.  Take another look at the obscene messages he posted in my guest book that imply my daughter should be killed http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm and try to have some compassion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –             Re: Dark man is at it again         To:  References:             1 , 2 , 3 I don’t care what the hell you think The above email was received by me from editor and is in its unedited version. Catherine I agree with Tunesmith.  Darkman seems not the type to post such trash on editor’s page.  I also think ASDM is NOT the appropriate place to post such accusations about someone. Editor, take the time to track down this person through their IP number and learn who the real poster is to your page. Peace, Catherine Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly. Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly.

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Question:

Thanks to all who’ve helped with getting me started in FF. I bought the Renzetti vise today and a starter kit of materials. I appreciate a finely crafted piece of equipment, and the renzetti is ~IT~!! I also had the good fortune to get a few FF books at a garage sale for 10 cents each. I’m on my way, and will probably get a sage starter set for my first rod/reel combo. I got a nice solid maple table and adjustable chair too, earlier this week. You guys are pretty cool, despite my rather rude first post. Tight lines to ya!!

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Pass some of that disposable income our way.                 Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who’ve helped with getting me started in FF. I bought the Renzetti vise today and a starter kit of materials. I appreciate a finely crafted piece of equipment, and the renzetti is ~IT~!! I also had the good fortune to get a few FF books at a garage sale for 10 cents each. I’m on my way, and will probably get a sage starter set for my first rod/reel combo. I got a nice solid maple table and adjustable chair too, earlier this week. You guys are pretty cool, despite my rather rude first post. Tight lines to ya!!

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Well….the table and chair were free, picked from someone’s trash. The legs on the table were all broken. and had to be pegged and epoxied, and the chair needed a rebuild. I have two teenagers. I have ~no~ disposable income. If I didn’t buy the Renzetti, the litttle pirhanas would have smelled the cash and come after me!! Thanks   Pass some of that disposable income our way.

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[deleted] Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.

Good call Dan !. *Much* better to buy based on more *useful* information such as: MVR (Maximum Vibration Technology) <g — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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writes: Good call Dan !. *Much* better to buy based on more *useful* information such as: MVR (Maximum Vibration Technology) <g

Hi Tim, The point I was trying to make was that yes, there is a lot of different technology out there (including Orvis’ Maximum Vibration Reduction), but the whole point of the tech is to make a rod that works well and feels good to the individual.    It doesn’t matter what the technology is behind it if it doesn’t feel good (or make a difference) to the person buying it.  Got to keep that horse in front of the cart.<g                              Good Fishing,                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means? Thanks, Scott Wilkinson

Hi Scott, There are four generations of graphite compositions that rod makers use today. The original or first generation called graphite #1 is ~30 million modulus The second generation called graphite #2 or IM6 is ~40 million modulus The third generation called graphite #3 is ~ 50 million modulus The fourth generation called graphite #4 is ~ 64 million modulus The later generations are usually lighter and more efficient, but I am really more concerned about how they cast. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Snip, snip….Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.  Try out the rod and

see how it worksfor your needs.  Just because a rod says it is IM6 does not necessarily mean it is a better rod than one made out of the older graphite, or a worse rod than a rod made out of a newer graphite formula.  It allows the rod designer more design options than the old graphite and not as many options as the newestgraphite.  The result depends a lot on the skill of the rod designer and how he utilises those capabilities. Hope this helps,

I didn’t raise the question, but that’s about as good an answer as anybody could ask for. Cleared things up for me, anyway. Thanks. From the minute we’re born we all start dying;some of us just take longer than others. Me? I’ve been dragging my feet, but it doesn’t seem to help much.

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I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means?

It stands for "Intermediate Modulus 600" and is a graphite specification that is used to make fly rods.  It is typically known as second generation graphite and was pretty much the standard for many rod companies prior to the higher modulus graphites (third and fourth generation) currently used.  Lots of good fly rods were/are made from this material although it is no longer the standard of the industry. I believe  Winston still makes all of their rods out of this material and they make some very nice (and expensive) fly rods from it. Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.  Try out the rod and see how it works for your needs.  Just because a rod says it is IM6 does not necessarily mean it is a better rod than one made out of the older graphite, or a worse rod than a rod made out of a newer graphite formula.  It allows the rod designer more design options than the old graphite and not as many options as the newest graphite.  The result depends a lot on the skill of the rod designer and how he utilises those capabilities.                     Hope this helps,                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means? Thanks, Scott Wilkinson

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there was an excellent posting on all the types of graphite a couple of months back. I suggest you search Dejanews if you want the straight goods as I am sure I have muddled it up in my memory a tad; graphite as a raw material is available from a number of manufacturers. The original graphite had a modulus of 33 million or so ( 33 million what?) About 10 years ago "2nd generation" graphite appeared with a modulus of 42 million: IM6 and Sage’s graphite II were part of this crowd. 3rd generation followed (ie Graphite III), modulus of maybe 50 million etc etc. So IM6 refers to a 2nd generation graphite fibre from a particular manufacturer. It’s been used a long while, it’s proven, rod designers know it’s qualities and a lot of people like rods made from it. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts.

True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

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– — TimW Halfordian Golfer [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power.

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty. TimW

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Man didn’t make it to the top of the food chain to eat grass!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

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They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty.

So the Religious Right takes on the AR Wacko’s? Here’s a preview: RR: Man was given dominion over the beasts of the field,        and the birds of the air, and of the fish that swim in the        sea.  They’re ours to use for our benefit, by authority        of Holy Writ. AR: Didn’t someone say, "Thou shalt not kill?".  Nothing was        said about which species, was it?  Huh?  Huh? RR: Don’t get smart with me, tofu-breath!  May I point out that        mankind was cast out of the Garden for eating, not meat,        but an APPLE! AR: Hey, who died and made you God?!?  I don’t have to take that        kind of crap from any wild-eyed, Bible-quotin’ Bambi-blaster! RR: Defiler of Gods Word! AR:  Devourer of the innocent! RR:  Tofu-sucking worm!! AR:  Meat-eating carnivore!! RR:  Slime!!! AR:  Pig!!! <sound of fisticuffs.  Divers alarums and excursions I’ll bring the popcorn.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Jesse: fishin’ is fishin’ and I agree we should support each other even when we disagree ;^). Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Great sentiment but it doesn’t generate much interaction or reaction.  It’s just like the news on TV or in the papers, never any good news like how someone saved another persons life, how a policeman came to the aid of a harrassed citizen, how a ghetto kid scored the highest on his SATs etc.  All we get is bad news & the more sensational the better.  It seems that good news just bores people. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

Sorry, but it’s just too sappy a subject to get much followup, IMO. I mean, really, where do you want it to go ? "I love you Ralph !" "I love you too Moe !" Conflict is *good*, man, it preceeds real progress. Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY?

No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I regard to point #5. I’m allergic to fish; does that count? John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Peter

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Absolutely support each other on the water.  Share the pop or beer, give away patterns that are working, occaisionally tell of a relatively well known spot that is fishing well.         But in here, let the melting and melding of ideas and emotion flow freely.  The back and forth of opposing views is a big part of a news group like this.  If this was nothing more than the exchange of information it would lose it’s appeal for me – probably alot of us. JE

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I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan?

Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Only after a bowel movement. Peter

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Amongst our fellow anglers we may quarrel and disagree at length.  But when it comes to animal rights types (PETA, fund for animals, Pieces etc.) we must stand with the worm dunker and the Bassmaster or shurly we will all fall.  Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.     Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

snip

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[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.

But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Tim W. wrote But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management.

they dont need a defensible position, there nuts! They think everyone should live a strict vegan lifestyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man shall have dominion over the beasts. Amen. — <snip

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Question:

The CA DFG lets you order a fishing license over the phone and you get a 5% discount.  The cost savings  will help cover the cost of the call to Sacramento.  This can save a trip to the local bait shop or fly shop. = Since I didn=92t go to the local fly shop, I saved the money on the other= things I would have bought while at the fly shop. Call 916-227-2246 and use your credit card.  My license was delivered to me in Silicon Valley in three days.

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This can save a trip to the local bait shop or fly shop. Since I didn

Question:

Just to clarify my previous post – Summit County, Colorado. Zemel

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Anyone have good info on fly fishing in Cabo San Lucas?  I am going down in April and would love some salt water action.   Keith McDonald Columbia Homes, Inc. 206-222-6317

Be sure and read the article on "Gonzalo’s" under rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater.  Don’t think I’d mess with them from those other people’s experience.

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 Anyone have good info on fly fishing in Cabo San Lucas?  I am going down – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in April and would love some salt water action.   Keith McDonald Columbia Homes, Inc. 206-222-6317

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Couple questions from a group newcomer: 1) Heading to Summit County in March – any suggestions, away from towns preferrably? 2) I need some cold-weather fishing gloves – again, any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Mitch Zemel

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Hi all, are there any flyfishing related shows coming up in Seattle in the next few weeks? Al.

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Yes, there is a show this week in the Kingdome.  It is not a fly fish only show.  However it will feature presentation casting, fly shops, etc.  Most of the major manufacturers should be there too. SAGE, etc. It is the International Sportsman Exhib.  Usually a very good show, one of my favourites. Best Fishes, Marilyn Murphy Murphy’s Sportfishing Vancouver Island, BC "Your West Coast Fishing Information Source"

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Question:

The Gila River and tributaries within the Gila National Forest has about two hundred miles of stream that contain Gila trout and Gila-rainbow highbreds. About 45 miles of these are now considered pure Gila trout and are protected. If this population can be expanded and stabilized Gila trout may soon be down listed and fishing allowed in the future. In the mean time one can fish for Gila-rainbow highbreds in many streams. Brown trout are found in several streams and brook trout in Whitewater Creek and South Fork Whitewater Creek. Smallmouth are found in the Mainstream, East Fork, Middle Fork, and Beaver Creek. Almost all of the good flyfishing is found in the wildness and requires hiking. Ron

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information on the locations of gila trout are in the nm fishing regulations as restricted waters.  the u.s. fish and wildlife are listed as saving these trout during the forest fire season and may provide referrences.

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First a note:  How do I get the text of the post I’m responding to included?  Everyone else does it, and all I ever get is a blank screen for my post.  Makes it harder to peg in my reply for the casual reader. Anyhow, I can only say a little about the Gila trout, and that indirectly.  Earlier this week, I attended and testified at a hearing (in Socorro, NM) about the reintroduction of the Mexican wolf.  On that occasion, I had the "opportunity" to hear the positions of a variety of New Mexican cattle ranchers from that area.  And there were aspersions cast on the trout, as another gosh darn way people interfere with ranchers (the ONLY people who actually *work* for a living — everyone else is on "welfare", including but not limited to government employees, corporate employees and anyone involved in education).  Not a comment that gives you much of an answer, but at least you know somebody’s out there, reading your post… BTW, I think that reintroduction of the wolves would be good for trout, a la Leopold’s "Thinking Like a Mountain".  Vegetation is GOOD for watersheds, hydrological regimes, water quality, etc. etc.  When you "think like a mountain", you get nervous about ways of doing things that denude the countryside.   E.

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