Question:

This is to all those who have fished or want to fish in Nordic countries (Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland) Feel free to join and chat and share your experiences or ask questions! How to sign in? See below. -mm- Hello, Welcome to the NordicFlyfishing group at Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use email group service.  Please take a moment to review this message. To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to If you do not wish to belong to NordicFlyfishing, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Regards, Moderator, NordicFlyfishing

Response:

This is to all those who have fished or want to fish in Nordic countries (Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland) Feel free to join and chat and share your experiences or ask questions! How to sign in? See below. -mm- Hello, Welcome to the NordicFlyfishing group at Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use email group service.  Please take a moment to review this message. Sign in at  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NordicFlugfiske To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to If you do not wish to belong to NordicFlyfishing, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Regards, Moderator, NordicFlyfishing

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Question:

You don’t beat up on your own sport. Mr. G. —

Response:

You don’t beat up on your own sport.

A curious (if not bizarre) simile – which begs the question: just what do you do with your bar of bath soap, George? (Practise C&R in the tub? ;^) /dave

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Well this was an eye opener here on this cool morning in northern Maine….I’m howling… dave — dave’s homepage madness – flyfishing in Maine and more http://www.midmaine.com/~dbottom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t beat up on your own sport. A curious (if not bizarre) simile – which begs the question: just what do you do with your bar of bath soap, George? (Practise C&R in the tub? ;^) /dave

Response:

Interesting analogy.. but why the word "molest," which seem more in line with using them for your own purposes and then tossing them aside? You don’t beat up on your own sport. Mr. G.

-Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Question:

Ken, Go to Mariott’s in Fullerton, on Orangethorpe, and have them brief you on Bear Creek. I lived in Anaheim two years ago and fished there a number of times after being briefed.  It was the only place I found where you could be away from the crowds of Southern CA and catch some good fish in some beautiful surroundings. Small browns, 10 to 12 inches, in a small stream setting.  I used a 3 wt outfit and had a ball.  Elk hair caddis flies were the ticket then. Good luck! Tom

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Ken, The stream that drains the lake at Big Bear has trout in it, but it is a rough one to fish.  It is nothing like Hot Creek.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR ECONOMY WADING BOOTS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Hi All:          Does anyone know if there are any stream’s or creek’s that can be fished near Arrowhead or Bigbear? I live in SO CAL and just started fly fishing this April when I went to Bishop for opening day.Boy am I hooked I had a great time at Hot Creek! Anyway I want to find a place local to fish and learn more. Any advice?                        Thanks                                  Ken

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 Hi All:          Does anyone know if there are any stream’s or creek’s that can be fished near Arrowhead or Bigbear? I live in SO CAL and just started fly fishing this April when I went to Bishop for opening day.Boy am I hooked I had a great time at Hot Creek! Anyway I want to find a place local to fish and learn more. Any advice?                        Thanks                                  Ken

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Question:

[deleted] I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful. Something I do not know yet is what the ‘practical’ shock-limit is on these SLR’s.  I mean, jostling them about…sticking them here and there…is that OK ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim, I would recommend putting a skylight filter on your lens. If you bump the front of your lens or scratch it, you have ruined a cheap filter and not an expensive lens. I’ve prevented expensive damage to two or three lenses this way. Just put it on and leave it. Your exposure won’t be noticably affected. Jim

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Hi Moe,

I only bring my camera when I’m hiking and fishing into a pretty, isolated area so it just goes into my daypack with everything else.  The pack stays on the bank when I go into the water.  It works out fine, and I haven’t lost the pack yet.  I don’t wear a vest, though, so I’m not sure how that would work. Dave

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Actually may soften the image and shadows in a pleasing way. Try it out!

Q: Do photographers still use Vaseline for the same effect? A: Not when they’re using a condom.  The petroleum weakens them, and they break. Be careful out there. Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a   ruggedized waterproof camera ? NO and YES. I bought a Pentax IQ zoom waterproof camera (~$250-270) for this purpose after I fell into a stream in New Zealand with my friend’s camera (ruining it and leaving me without a small camera).  I rarely carry my SLR/lenses because of weight and fear that I will ruin a zillion dollars with one false step.  This particular waterproof camera is pretty good – it is not a simple point and shoot.  I wear it around my neck all the time when fishing, and I take more pictures now. cheers,       -tgades I’ve got the same camera – a great piece of work. To bad there’s no built-in lens cap for it, but it’s 99.9999% on the way to being the perfect camera for fishing. Nice macro feature for close-ups. Pentax has a new model (IQ 110?) for more money – with a very wide angle lens for panorama shots, but this one gives up on the water- resistance feature, I think. I also carry my camera in a plastic zip-lock baggie (my wallet’s got a baggie too) just to be sure it’ll survive my next unplanned wetdown. If I’m with someone else, they learn how to shoot a picture with it in about 10 seconds.

I tried the inexpensive point and shoot.  My photos were fine, but my ex-girlfriend couldn’t take a picture of me, with my fish, without cutting my head off.  I’ve easily got 20 pictures of me with fish that aren’t up to quality for the album. At least she had other attributes… I seem to recall Outer Banks used to sell a camera bag, made for several different makes.  Essentially a ziplock attached to a lens filter. Anyone ever use one?  Probably not good for underwater shots, but I bet it’d hold up through one of my early morning baths. — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address.   On a side note, my grandfather aways told me you couldn’t catch fish until you got water in you waders.  I’ve ammended that to you can’t catch trophy fish until you’ve ruined the camera.  His maxim still holds true though.

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(But, being prone to being prone…

Priceless ! — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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[deleted] I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful.

Something I do not know yet is what the ‘practical’ shock-limit is on these SLR’s.  I mean, jostling them about…sticking them here and there…is that OK ?   — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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DENNIS VICK responds: Well I hate to mention this in a family area, but condoms work just

great for protecting your SLR from the environment(non-ribbed type!) and you can still use the buttons, etc. And if you use the colored ones, It creates Great visual filter effects, Right?  Now, if they only made polorized ones for under water shots..;)

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[deleted] I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful. Something I do not know yet is what the ‘practical’ shock-limit is on these SLR’s.  I mean, jostling them about…sticking them here and there…is that OK ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

The better models in almost all camera makers lines are very shock resistant. Nikon F series, Pentax K series, Olympus OM, Cannon F series. If you keep your gear in a well padded and designed bag it will take a drop from body height without any problem. Zoom lenses can be the exception I have had them break when I rolled a bag of gear down a stairs. They can’t handle a blow head on. If you are really rough or travel a log get a hard case. I have run over my hard case with my truck without damage…….woops. If you do dunk a high quality slr equipment in a river get it to a camera repair person as soon as possible. If you dunk it good in saltwater look for a new camera. In using your camera. Remove from well padded case put strap over neck then make your pictures, change your film etc. Never set your gear on the trunk of your car. If you need a clean surface set your gear on the driver’s side hood. If you are hiking around rocks and need quick access to your camera keep it around your neck with the lens facing your body. This is photojournalist style. If you have been working in a dusty area use canned air to remove dust. I don’t care where you put your lens cap but make a habbit of putting it in the same place every time. All the Best, Michael Smith

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. but that is not why I post… How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for ….etc…. — TimW Halfordian Golfer      Tim – I carry a small 35mm auto-everything camera with me, and I protect it by putting it in a sturdy ziplock bag. Just before you close the last little corner of the ziplock, wrap your lips around it tightly and suck out the air in the bag; then quickly close the seal. This sort of molds to bag to the camera – you can even take a decent shot with the bag still on the camera in desperate circumstances. It has worked for me for many, many years.     In rereading this I see I have left myself wide open to your brand of humor, Tim. Try to restrain yourself, I am a respectable old lady of 66 [but still fishing!].      

Thank goodness you realize it as the harmless humor that it is …life is too short not to laugh…laugh loud and laugh often… Thanks very much for the tip and I will not take advantage of the obvious cheap shot that you left me and my devils workshop…   — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

MS How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a MS component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for MS the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or MS the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. MS Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a MS ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays MS home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride MS next time. Well I hate to mention this in a family area, but condoms work just great for protecting your SLR from the environment(non-ribbed type!) and you can still use the buttons, etc.

You either have a really small camera or a really big asdfj NO CARRIER                                                 John Fereira

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DD Actually may soften the DD image and shadows in a pleasing way. Try it out! DD DD Q: Do photographers still use Vaseline for the same effect? DD DD A: Not when they’re using a condom.  The petroleum weakens them, and they DD break. Be careful out there. Oh man, I knew I forgot something important in the original post, and now I remember it… Be certain to buy the UNLUBRICATED version of the condom for use with your cameras! Now for the photography question. YES, wedding photographers still do this on occasion, but usually on a screw on filter instead of the actual lense, at least after their first try. I have also made many different special effects in the past by fooling with things on the filter. You can create a split-image rangefinder of sorts by a solid black stripe right down the middle of your filter for instance. Doesn’t show on the final image at all. Filters may be purchased with scored perpendicular lines on the called "starfire" filters which create incredble star highlights from candles, sunlight reflections off the water, etc. Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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[deleted] I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful. Something I do not know yet is what the ‘practical’ shock-limit is on these SLR’s.  I mean, jostling them about…sticking them here and there…is that OK ?

It probably depends on the model.  My Canon has been on every backpacking trip I’ve been on in the past couple years and accompanies me on most fishing trips.  So far, I haven’t managed to even put a scratch on it.  If it is raining, I can take it out, take a picture, whipe the rain off, and put it back in the case with no harm done.  One of these times, I’m sure I’ll take a nasty tumble and kill it, but so far so good.   Later,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MS How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a MS component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for MS the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or MS the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. MS Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a MS ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays MS home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride MS next time. Well I hate to mention this in a family area, but condoms work just great for protecting your SLR from the environment(non-ribbed type!) and you can still use the buttons, etc. Good Lord, I hate to see the reponse from this one…but I AM SERIOUS. BTW, be sure to buy a good name brand. Leaks in these things can be pretty devastating. I swear, I am serious, Try it…….really! These things will blow up to 6′ diameter. No problem with a little camera. Stretch the material over the lense part so its close to clear. Why am I explaining this to you anyway, didn’t your parents tell you anything! Teachers, clergy, planned parenthood? Oh heck, just have fun. It works!

Interesting… You shoot through the stretched latex ???? I can really see explaining the condoms to my wife as I head out the door for a weeks fishing in Idaho… "Really honey, they are, uh, for my, uh, camera…!!!" This is a family area ?   Scary, as you can be in alt.things.even.your.mama.never.told.you in about 3 mouse clicks… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Moe, I have a Nikon FG and a Nikon F70, both of which cause me to cring a little when I bring them close to the water. I enjoy the artistic element of using an SLR too much to justify getting a waterproof auto camera. I have thus run into your problem. So far I have handled it by only taking the camera out of the car for dedicated photo shoots. I try to avoid wading with the camera if possible. When I’m done I get the rod out again and enjoy the fishing.  Last year my sis’ accompanied me on a trip and I got her to take some photos of me from the bank while I was wading. I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful. Paul

I’ll second the sticking with the SLR.  I have a Canon Elan.  I went to G.I. Joe’s and got a small (6"x7"x2") canvas bag.  It’s not waterproof, but it keeps the rain out.  It’ll hold the body and one lens, detached of course.  I wrap them both in ziplock freezer bags and throw those little water absorption pads that come with most electronic equipment in with them (you know, the ones that advise not eating them).  Most electonic stores will give them away from the packaging of their floor models. I attach it to my vest or backpack with a carbeaner(SP?), but if the wading looks too risky I’ll leave it on the bank of the river.  Yes, I tend to fish in VERY isolated areas, do not try this in more crowded areas. My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Response:

Hi. but that is not why I post… How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for ….etc…. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

     Tim – I carry a small 35mm auto-everything camera with me, and I protect it by putting it in a sturdy ziplock bag. Just before you close the last little corner of the ziplock, wrap your lips around it tightly and suck out the air in the bag; then quickly close the seal. This sort of molds to bag to the camera – you can even take a decent shot with the bag still on the camera in desperate circumstances. It has worked for me for many, many years.     In rereading this I see I have left myself wide open to your brand of humor, Tim. Try to restrain yourself, I am a respectable old lady of 66 [but still fishing!].       Louise Scharrenberg

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BD Well I hate to mention this in a family area, but condoms work just great BD protecting your SLR from the environment(non-ribbed type!) and you can sti BD use the buttons, etc. BD BD You either have a really small camera or a really big No big thing Roger.  Without getting too detailed, I have actually seen these things blown up to 5′ diameters and paper macheyed(sp?) in the old "phyche shops" of the 60’s. Pretty scary under black lights with flourescent posters and incense burning… Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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MS Interesting… MS MS You shoot through the stretched latex ???? Yep! You stretch it over the lense until it becomes pretty clear. Don’t have the technical reason for you, but cameras tend to ignore things that are very close to the lense. I have shot right thorough chain link fences for instance with no noticeable affect provided I was close enough. Actually may soften the image and shadows in a pleasing way. Try it out! MS I can really see explaining the condoms to my wife as I head out the MS door for a weeks fishing in Idaho… MS MS "Really honey, they are, uh, for my, uh, camera…!!!" Reminds of a story where the hunter bitches out his wife for not packing his socks after a three week hunting trip.. "But I did pack your socks honey!" "Where the he** did you pack them then?" "In the case with your rifle!" Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

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Hi. I recently acquired my first 35mmSLR, and I really, really enjoy learning about and using it.  It is my sincere hope that I can capture some of the joys of flyfishing on film as it satisfies me.  I also want to try and document some of what I feel is very wrong in our sport, particularly overcrowding on the river and wounded or sickly fish that should be killed… but that is not why I post… How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. As it turns out, I had the opportunity to get some great shots of my dear friend flyfishing, but as it also turned out, I did a little uninentional snorkelling on saturday AM too…I would have gotten the camera wet, at the very least. Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride next time. Tia, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a    ruggedized waterproof camera ?   NO and YES. I bought a Pentax IQ zoom waterproof camera (~$250-270) for this purpose after I fell into a stream in New Zealand with my friend’s camera (ruining it and leaving me without a small camera).  I rarely carry my SLR/lenses because of weight and fear that I will ruin a zillion dollars with one false step.  This particular waterproof camera is pretty good – it is not a simple point and shoot.  I wear it around my neck all the time when fishing, and I take more pictures now. cheers,         -tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I recently acquired my first 35mmSLR, and I really, really enjoy learning about and using it……. How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. As it turns out, I had the opportunity to get some great shots of my dear friend flyfishing, but as it also turned out, I did a little uninentional snorkelling on saturday AM too…I would have gotten the camera wet, at the very least. Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride next time.

Over the last twenty-five years I’ve had different cameras, SLR’s, range finders and one fixed lens. Sailing the ocean, mountaineering in unforgiving places, and stream side require different kind of cammera, NOT. Your camera, like your fly rod, is just a tool with limitations. What I discovered is, to take really wonderful shots use a SLR and buy every lens and gadget you find to help you at your task. Forget about fishing you won’t have time. You’ll be checking your light meter, checking back lighting, comparing gray scale zones, experimenting with how far you can push the ASA. And coming full circle when you move to a new location. Man that sounds like a lot of work and it really is. You could empty out you fishing vest and fill it full of camera stuff. Bingo, you are an official professional photographer or at least look like one. But for my money I went for the range finder type. One lens and one filter and that’s it. No fuss, good pic’s, with limitations. I just wanted to record what I saw, where I’d been, and what I’d experience. Just didn’t want to build a monument around it. I recommend these three range finder cameras, Reolli 35S (older german made w/big lens), Nikon Action Touch (really water proof to 12 feet), and an old Cannon Cannonete which is my current clicker. If my camera fell into bad grace I would not feel to badly because I mostly find used cameras that others have traded in to buy SLR’s. There’s a good steady supply, you just have to look for the deals. They do make waterproof bags that will keep your cameras dry, mostly used by white water rafters. But I hate cumbersome bags and am willing to take the chance on dousing the camera. Maybe if your fascination of fishing pictures really develops you could start taking pictures underwater of trout behavior and taking the fly. Yes, like flyfishing, it’s just another disease. When you get the darkroom going I could use some flytying gear, hint, hint, hint, since you will be up to your elbows in developer and fixer. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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MS How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a MS component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for MS the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or MS the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. MS Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a MS ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays MS home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride MS next time. Well I hate to mention this in a family area, but condoms work just great for protecting your SLR from the environment(non-ribbed type!) and you can still use the buttons, etc. Good Lord, I hate to see the reponse from this one…but I AM SERIOUS. BTW, be sure to buy a good name brand. Leaks in these things can be pretty devastating. I swear, I am serious, Try it…….really! These things will blow up to 6′ diameter. No problem with a little camera. Stretch the material over the lense part so its close to clear. Why am I explaining this to you anyway, didn’t your parents tell you anything! Teachers, clergy, planned parenthood? Oh heck, just have fun. It works! Dennis Vick … nfx v2.6 [C0000]                                                        

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a   ruggedized waterproof camera ?   NO and YES. I bought a Pentax IQ zoom waterproof camera (~$250-270) for this purpose after I fell into a stream in New Zealand with my friend’s camera (ruining it and leaving me without a small camera).  I rarely carry my SLR/lenses because of weight and fear that I will ruin a zillion dollars with one false step.  This particular waterproof camera is pretty good – it is not a simple point and shoot.  I wear it around my neck all the time when fishing, and I take more pictures now. cheers,    -tgades

I’ve got the same camera – a great piece of work. To bad there’s no built-in lens cap for it, but it’s 99.9999% on the way to being the perfect camera for fishing. Nice macro feature for close-ups. Pentax has a new model (IQ 110?) for more money – with a very wide angle lens for panorama shots, but this one gives up on the water- resistance feature, I think. I also carry my camera in a plastic zip-lock baggie (my wallet’s got a baggie too) just to be sure it’ll survive my next unplanned wetdown. If I’m with someone else, they learn how to shoot a picture with it in about 10 seconds. Don B. Wishful collector of Gillums and Dickersons – owner of Montague, H-I and Heddons.

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I, too, rarely carry my SLR when fishing. And I often regret it when I get back prints from my point and shoot that are incorrectly exposed. (But, being prone to being prone, it’s the only way to go for me). Does anyone have any ideas for an inexpensive (<$150) auto-focus that allows for manual exposure setting? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

there a couple of nice "photo backpacks" on the market. the one i got has a space for water or snacks or whatever. although it is not 100% waterproof – it will keep my expensive gear dry during brief recreational swims. i have decided that the inconvenience of the extra weight on my back is outweighed by the potential for great photos. p.s.   olympus makes a very small camera (will fit in almost any vest pocket) that is weatherproof. i believe they cost around $200.   greg

Response:

Hi Moe, I have a Nikon FG and a Nikon F70, both of which cause me to cring a little when I bring them close to the water. I enjoy the artistic element of using an SLR too much to justify getting a waterproof auto camera. I have thus run into your problem. So far I have handled it by only taking the camera out of the car for dedicated photo shoots. I try to avoid wading with the camera if possible. When I’m done I get the rod out again and enjoy the fishing.  Last year my sis’ accompanied me on a trip and I got her to take some photos of me from the bank while I was wading. I say stick with the SLR and be extra careful. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. How do you deal with an expensive electronic ridden camera as a component of your flyfishing equipment ?.  As I was preparing for the day on the river on Saturday, my vest could carry water or the camera, but not both, and I did not want another bag. Is this insolvable ?  Is the only answer a compromise towards a ruggedized waterproof camera ?  Perhaps the fishing stuff stays home and only the photography equipment makes the truck ride next time. Tia, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

http://www.reel-time.com/

Response:

Go to http://www.flyfishing.com and post messages about what patterns you’d like to know about. A lot of fly tying experts and commercial flytiers check in at this site. Also, if you are interested in getting a great bonefish pattern book, try Dick Brown’s new book on Bonefish Patterns–it’s excellent, especially for Bahamas patterns. Good fishin’ Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY

Response:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

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Question:

Hi guys-    Am going to Borneo on a cave mapping trip in October through December. Anybody know anything about the fisheries there or who to contact? -Ralph —

Response:

Hi guys-   Am going to Borneo on a cave mapping trip in October through December. Anybody know anything about the fisheries there or who to contact? -Ralph —

        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months.                 a. wayne harrison

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        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months!                 a. wayne harrison

        No. Really.         I’d hate to show up with a box of PMD’s when the centipede hatch was going bonkers.         Seriously though, if anyone has any leads regarding fish or fishing in Borneo I’d appreciate a word. -Me

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        oh, god, what a great post.  thanks, cutter.  haven’t had a laugh like this in months!                 a. wayne harrison         No. Really.         I’d hate to show up with a box of PMD’s when the centipede hatch was going bonkers.         Seriously though, if anyone has any leads regarding fish or fishing in Borneo I’d appreciate a word.

I do not. RE: Fish in Caves… Once I was in a cave in Colorado that had running water in it (on an extended backpacking rip)…it was FULL of brookies…wierd little huge jawed brookies…that would hit anything. We ate a lot of them… We kept ‘em alive on a stringer…bonk one…cut off the head…insert weenie stick along spine and cook like a marshmallow.  DELICIOUS ! TimW

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Try contacting  Hock-Heng Pro Fishing in Singapore , they are pretty knowledgable from what I remember . Unfortunately I do not have their contact information anymore , but remember the name . G

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Question:

So now you know you must either dress the hook with thread, or you must not.  Hmmmmm.  Well, I guess that eventually becomes a matter of personal preference.  I prefer to have a thread base whether I’m spinning the hair (as with a Muddler head) or not (as with a Try-It or Caddis).  It has been my experience that I get a bit more control. If the problem you are having is with the spinning of the hair to distribute around the hook shank, then practice is the best answer.  Use a small clump of hair, warp the thread arond the hair and hook, all the way.  Then continue over the top and down the far side.  On your way down, tighten down on the thread, and release the hair from your (usually left) hand.  This USUALLY will draw the hair around the hook. An important part of making a Muddler head is to pack the hair backwards – away from the eye of the hook, and build it up a little bunch at a time.  It is generally sufficient to push it with your thunmbnail and index finger.  Then you can trim it as you see fit after the head is all roughed in and the thread is tied off. G’Luck Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

I think we’ve all been there. It really helps to watch someone who’s good at it. If you don’t know anyone, try getting a video. I have heard people suggest the Jimmy Nix bass bug video  but I have not watched it. The Jack Dennis video, "Tying Western Trout Flys" has some good Information on different types of hair and what they are good for. Make sure you clean out all of the fuzz and any short hairs with a comb or your scissor points. I use larger bunches of hair than most people suggest. I also leave the hook shank bare under the head area. Good luck, Jay Whitworth

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

Hi Jonathan-    A cool trick is to wet the deer hair the let it get *almost* dry. It will spin and flair with ease. OK, well almost. Trick #2 is to trim with a razor blade rather than scissors. Trick #3 is to hit the head with a butane lighter or propane torch (lightly). It will burn all the stray hair even with the base head. Trick #4, have your wife tie it.    Tight heads, Ralph —

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

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The hair you select is important.  Choose hair that is not brittle, such as coastal hair.  Spin it with a soft loop, then a tighter loop and finally a tight loop.  The last loop should spin the hair.  Pack it tight and start again until you get the head you are looking for.  Spinning hair is not easy to learn. I suggest you rent a good video or take a leson. Good luck!

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Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

Might also show up under the moniker of "mustache comb".  I use one (for fly tying) and am able to report it works quite well! Charley

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With all the good advice given, someone forgot to mention combing out the fuzz from the hair before you spin it.  You don’t have to get it all, just use a comb or scissor points or even your fingers to get most of it out.   This helps the spinning process considerably. Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx Take a run down to your local drug store, go to the cosmetics section and pick up an eyebrow comb… I got the one with metal teeth… real tight and does a great job on removing the fuzz from deer hair.

Static electricity is also a problem when working with any animal hair.   I use Static Guard to remove that problem.  You can find it in most super markets in the detergent/soap area. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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Recently viewed two videos by Chris Helm (Hooked on Fly Tying series). Chris answers most questions one could have about stacking and spinning deer hair.  Also, Dave Whitlock’s video on bass flies is quite a work. Between them, a tyer should have no trouble tying deer hair patterns for trout or bass.   VA Angler

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I’ve enjoyed reading about various  techniques to improve spinning deer hair.  Has anyone tried STACKING deer hair?    I prefer this method over spinning. It allows me to segment the color of the bass bug I’m tying (white underneath, green on top).   You can create a very realistic fly.  Comments?

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writes: Has anyone tried STACKING deer hair?    I prefer this method over spinning. It allows me to segment the color of the bass bug I’m tying (white underneath, green on top).   You can create a very realistic fly.  Comments?

As the saying goes,"You Betcha!"  You can see some good examples of the technique on Jimmy Nix’s Tying Bass Flies or Dave Whitlock’s 2 tape set. If you get a chance to see Mark Hoesner (sp?) at any of the shows, stop and watch as he is amazing.                                          Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Just as a side note… Deer hair isn’t really hollow, its more a function of the number of air pockets that are in the hair. The hair on the back of the animal is less "hollow" than on the belly due to this feature of air pockets. I find that the belly hair is better for bass bug bodies and the back hair is better for collars. I really stay away from deer hair for caddis and use elk hair because even the worst deer hair still flares too much for my taste. Charles (Chuck) Abbott      The MITRE Corporation "There is not a single blackfly in the Adirondacks. All are married and have large families." Henry Wells

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Both of the other posters have given excellent advise. If however, you still have trouble, get this video- "Tying Bass flies with Jimmy Nix". The man REALLY knows how to teach it. Good luck. — Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss,so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!) OK, first pay close attention to the deer hair you’re using. The deer hair must be hollow, that crucial. You can try your deer hair when you push with your finger nail onto some deer hairs. If they spread very well -use it, if not- use it for deer hair caddis. BTW, the best hair for spinning is Caribou, try it (especially if you start tying Irresistibles). Another problem might be the thread – If you change from 8/0 to 6/0 you will less likely break the tread. I usually wind a base of thread before I spin the deer hair (before you start spinning the deer hair make one half hitch just in case you brake the tread). Take a small (!) bunch of deer hair, hold it onto the hook and make one tread turn and then pull it tight and make another turn exactly on top of the first- the deer hair will spread around the hook. Push the hair bach to the shank and make one half hitch (just in case you break the tread) and tie in the next bunch of Caribou. After you spinned enough deer hair whip finish (or make two half hitches- you can do the latter faster and it is equaly stable). Trim the hair with a razor blade. I don’t use a hair stacker for the deer hair (for the first bunch of deer hair you can if you like). I usually take a bunch and take out very long hairs, then I hold the bunch at the tip and pull out very short hairs and underfur. That is simply faster and it looks more natural to me. If you tie in the deer hair close to the base it spinns easier! Hope that helps               Thomas

Forgot to mention two things: The best introduction how to work with deer hair is probably in the WESTERN FLY TYING MANUAL VOL. II b= y Jack Dennis (revised edition!). One tip of Jack is: tie at least on dozen of each fly, with tying only two or three you won’t get = it- don’t be frustrated (I can confirm by myself, it works only this way: tie at least one or two dozen- the only way to get real go= od flies and to improve speed).                   Thomas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ——                                         /                       Harvard University                                                / Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology                     / 16 Divinity Ave.                                                / Cambridge, MA 02138                                            / Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716                                       / Fax:  (USA)  617 495 9300                                 O  /                                                          |_/o                                                        / | _______

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I had the same hangup when I started.  I found that the thread and packer were key to success with deer hair.  First, a good strong thread (kevlar if you can afford the bulk) was critical for me as a beginner.  A descent packer helped, too – especially when using the heavier threads.  Lastly, try trimming with a razor if you’re not doing so already.  I’ve found the razor yeilds a much better shape when all is said and done. — Ray Anderson Fall River MA  USA "Imagination is more important than knowledge." –  Albert Einstein

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

OK, first pay close attention to the deer hair you’re using. The deer hair must be hollow, that crucial. You can try your deer hair when you push with your finger nail onto some deer hairs. If they spread very well -use it, if not- use it for deer hair caddis. BTW, the best hair for spinning is Caribou, try it (especially if you start tying Irresistibles). Another problem might be the thread – If you change from 8/0 to 6/0 you will less likely break the tread. I usually wind a base of thread before I spin the deer hair (before you start spinning the deer hair make one half hitch just in case you brake the tread). Take a small (!) bunch of deer hair, hold it onto the hook and make one tread turn and then pull it tight and make another turn exactly on top of the first- the deer hair will spread around the hook. Push the hair bach to the shank and make one half hitch (just in case you break the tread) and tie in the next bunch of Caribou. After you spinned enough deer hair whip finish (or make two half hitches- you can do the latter faster and it is equaly stable). Trim the hair with a razor blade. I don’t use a hair stacker for the deer hair (for the first bunch of deer hair you can if you like). I usually take a bunch and take out very long hairs, then I hold the bunch at the tip and pull out very short hairs and underfur. That is simply faster and it looks more natural to me. If you tie in the deer hair close to the base it spinns easier! Hope that helps                Thomas ——                                          /                       Harvard University                                                / Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology                     / 16 Divinity Ave.                                                / Cambridge, MA 02138                                            / Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716                                       / Fax:  (USA)  617 495 9300                                 O  /                                                           |_/o                                                         / | _______

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions? THanks, JOnathan Vlaming Duluth, Minnesota (woke up to -43 today, WITHOUT the windchill!!)

Response:

Try Fly & Field at http://www.flyfield.com. e-mail them and ask about Chris Helm’s deer hair products. He sorts the various hair from various species to get you just the stuff you need for the particular job. Todd

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I’m a beginning tyer who has been having trouble with making muddlers.   I’m hung up on the deer hair – have been having a hard time getting the hair to make that funky head.  ANy suggestions?

Practice if necessary with thread strong enough never to break; and be sure to comb out all fluff from hair butts first. Place a pinch (no more than will fit in a .22 shell case) of aligned hair across the naked hook shank (i.e. no thread base at all) and secure with two loose turns of thread.  Then pull gradually but quite hard, to spin thread around the hook while you tighten. If OK, keep tension on thread while you shove everything rearward with thumbnail(s) — not too much — and then spin on some more.  Only experience will indicate how much hair to use.  Sparse heads sink better, massive heads float better. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Hi, I see another person steered you toward Chris Helm — he did you a real favour.  Chris has some great hair and you can reach him at 419-474-2348. His business is called White Tail Supplies or something like that. Just tell Chris what you need the hair for and he will make sure you get the right stuff. A tip: If you decide to go to a fly shop instead of calling Chris be sure to look for hair (in the packages, of course) that is basically light grey rather than dark grey.  The light grey hair will spin into a very nice muddler head BUT the dark grey hair will NOT. Good Luck! Al Beatty

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donald thanks for the advise as I am haveing the same problem. I am new to fly tying, and fishing, I just started flyfishing here in northern alberta, some very good streams, just have to learn how to catch some fish keith wyman

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Question:

I’m going to spend a week on the Chesapeake Bay, near Annapolis, in mid August and am wondering what recommendations you might have. I’ll be doing some fishing from shore but will spend a fair amount of time on a 40′ trawler that is better equipped to b the love boat than for any serious stalking and catching. Currently, I have a 5 wt. fly setup (which I plan to take), but will likely to get a 9 wt. saltwater rig for streamers and poppers before I go. I suspect I can’t troll with a 9 wt., except at the very slowest speeds, but what can I expect to catch with those two rods – if anything – or am I just wasting time and money?  And which flies will improve my chances? In advance, thanks.

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I’m going to spend a week on the Chesapeake Bay, near Annapolis, in mid August and am wondering what recommendations you might have. I’ll be doing some fishing from shore but will spend a fair amount of time on a 40′ trawler that is better equipped to be the love boat than for any serious stalking and catching. Currently, I have a 5 wt. fly setup (which I plan to take), but will likely to get a 9 wt. saltwater rig for streamers and poppers before I go. I suspect I can’t troll with a 9 wt., except at the very slowest speeds, but what can I expect to catch with those two rods – if anything – or am I just wasting time and money?  And which flies will improve my chances? In advance, thanks.

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Question:

What’s wrong with polar bear hackle? I use grizzly hackle myself – floats well too, once you remove the claws.

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mr. bulldog- badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and i believe something called "furnace" hackle which definitely did not come from a furnace…

: Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but : I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they : sell badger hackle! : Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   : Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? : Bulldog : #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # : # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # : #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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Whatever turns you on !

Seems every year they pull someone out of the polar bear compound who apparently tried that. Seems it’s not too healthy. multitudes of synthetic "furs" available out there? I’ve been tying pike streamers with Super Hair lately. Ties nice if all you want is a straight streamer, but I’d like something with some flare (as in flares like deer hair). Any suggestions? JL 8-Wt Editor

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Hmmm . . . Must be one of them flying polar bears I’ve heared tell about. Could be dangerous if one o’ them critters gets confused an’ lands on some statue down in Nu Yawk City! But, I guess you could get some mighty big necks off one of ‘em! JL 8-Wt Editor

Whatever turns you on ! Pete Marrow, Global Seismology Research Group, British Geological Survey, Murchison House, West Mains Road, Edinburgh, EH9 3LA. UK. tel: 031-667-1000          Fax: 031-667-1877  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – mr. bulldog- badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and i believe something called "furnace" hackle which definitely did not come from a furnace… : Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but : I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they : sell badger hackle! : Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   : Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? : Bulldog

Mr. Santos, I KNOW why badger and grizzly hackle are so named, but I decided to make a joke.  Whew, I guess you didn’t get the hint from my last question/sentence.  Anyway, I hope that one day, everyone will spend as much on their sense of humor as they do their fly fishing equipment (and some should fork out a little more)! Ruf, Bulldog #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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: mr. bulldog- : : badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ : feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and And I thought "grizzly hackle" referred to some of those road-kill birds I’ve been known to drag home! Charley

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I recently saw and ad in Flyfishermens Mag. about some guys who sells polar bear hackle.  I was curious to see if anyone has ever used or knows much about it.  

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I recently saw and ad in Flyfishermens Mag. about some guys who sells polar bear hackle.

Hmmm . . . Must be one of them flying polar bears I’ve heared tell about. Could be dangerous if one o’ them critters gets confused an’ lands on some statue down in Nu Yawk City! But, I guess you could get some mighty big necks off one of ‘em! JL 8-Wt Editor

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Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they sell badger hackle! Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? Bulldog #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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Question:

I have a short list of about a dozen fishing books (mostly fly fishing) these are out-of-print or first edition copies.  If you collect books on fishing, or just love to read about it (you probably do if you are on this list)  you might enjoy my occasional lists of sporting books. Thank you for reading. David Holloway

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Iam looking for a copy of "the compleat angler"can you help. nav9200

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