Question:

I just had an incredible bit of luck run into me. Yesterday one of my coworkers came into my office and said that he noticed from my office decorations that I enjoyed fly fishing. He had run across one of those fly fishing coffee table books for $1.00 in the local bargain bin and bought it for me. As I thanked him, one bit of conversation led to another and he mentioned he had an old fly rod in his garage collecting dust and asked if I’d like it. It turns out that this guy used to camp and hunt in Keene, NH about 15-20 years ago. One day while he was there, his hunting partner asked if he would mind helping the landowner pack a few things into a moving truck. Long story short, they ended up at Lee Wulff’s place in Surry. He said that Mr. Wulff was spending more time reminiscing about each thing he packed than actually packing the U-Haul for his move to New York on the Beaverkill. At the end of the day, Mr. Wulff gave my coworker his Cortland Model 502-A, 2-piece 7′6" 7WT rod, of which I am now the proud owner. Judging from the wear on the tip-top, this rod was used frequently. Although the rod itself may not be of much value (and of this I’m not sure – I can’t find any info on it), the fact that Mr. Wulff once fished with it makes it something I will cherish. When told of his death, Charles Kurault said, "Lee Wulff was to fly fishing what Einstein was to physics." As someone recently said here, life is good. — TL, Tim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had an incredible bit of luck run into me. Yesterday one of my coworkers came into my office and said that he noticed from my office decorations that I enjoyed fly fishing. He had run across one of those fly fishing coffee table books for $1.00 in the local bargain bin and bought it for me. As I thanked him, one bit of conversation led to another and he mentioned he had an old fly rod in his garage collecting dust and asked if I’d like it. It turns out that this guy used to camp and hunt in Keene, NH about 15-20 years ago. One day while he was there, his hunting partner asked if he would mind helping the landowner pack a few things into a moving truck. Long story short, they ended up at Lee Wulff’s place in Surry. He said that Mr. Wulff was spending more time reminiscing about each thing he packed than actually packing the U-Haul for his move to New York on the Beaverkill. At the end of the day, Mr. Wulff gave my coworker his Cortland Model 502-A, 2-piece 7′6" 7WT rod, of which I am now the proud owner. Judging from the wear on the tip-top, this rod was used frequently. Although the rod itself may not be of much value (and of this I’m not sure – I can’t find any info on it), the fact that Mr. Wulff once fished with it makes it something I will cherish. When told of his death, Charles Kurault said, "Lee Wulff was to fly fishing what Einstein was to physics." As someone recently said here, life is good. — TL, Tim

That is awesome Tim. Congrats Russell -Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Response:

Awesome.  Write down the "provenance" with as many dates and names as you can get.  If you decide to just keep the rod and later sell it, this will definately increase its value. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Awesome.  Write down the "provenance" with as many dates and names as you can get.  If you decide to just keep the rod and later sell it, this will definately increase its value.

Already working on it. I’ve written to Joan Wulff to see if she can verify the circumstance. Also, my coworker was keeping a diary during the time this happened, so he thinks he can give me some more exact timeframe. Even though it’s designated as a 7WT, the rod feels like it would handle a WF5F line pretty well, which is usually what I use. Has anyone out there fished with this kind of mismatch before? Any tips? — TL, Tim (excited like a kid in a candy store)

Response:

Already working on it. I’ve written to Joan Wulff to see if she can verify the circumstance.

OTOH, she might want her rod back.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

All I have to say is: we should have gone fishing yesterday.  You were destined to catch that once in a lifetime wild 30 inch Swift River brookie.

Response:

Awesome.  Write down the "provenance" with as many dates and names as you can get.  If you decide to just keep the rod and later sell it, this will definately increase its value.

Absolutely.  In fact, you might even wish to contact Joan Wulff and see about a letter.  While it may seem unimportant now, when and if it becomes important, it will be more difficult, if not impossible, to gather the needed information.  Also, make sure that your documentation/research is clearly spelled out and your family knows about it (or at least where to find your documentation).  Trust me on this – I speak from personal experience. You might also wish to check with the Catskill FFing Center: Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum 1031 Old Route 17, Livingston Manor, New York 12758 http://www.cffcm.org/cmc.html  or the Anglers’ Club of New York: The Anglers’ Club of New York 101 Broad St. New York, NY 10004 Voice: (212) 425-7333 Fax: (212) 809-9089 IIRC, they were involved in auction of Wulff items a couple of years ago, and might be able to give you a rough idea of value for insurance, etc.   Congrats on the "find." TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awesome.  Write down the "provenance" with as many dates and names as you can get.  If you decide to just keep the rod and later sell it, this will definately increase its value. Absolutely.  In fact, you might even wish to contact Joan Wulff and see about a letter.  While it may seem unimportant now, when and if it becomes important, it will be more difficult, if not impossible, to gather the needed information.  Also, make sure that your documentation/research is clearly spelled out and your family knows about it (or at least where to find your documentation).  Trust me on this – I speak from personal experience. You might also wish to check with the Catskill FFing Center: Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum 1031 Old Route 17, Livingston Manor, New York 12758 http://www.cffcm.org/cmc.html  or the Anglers’ Club of New York: The Anglers’ Club of New York 101 Broad St. New York, NY 10004 Voice: (212) 425-7333 Fax: (212) 809-9089 IIRC, they were involved in auction of Wulff items a couple of years ago, and might be able to give you a rough idea of value for insurance, etc.

Thanks for the info — I’ve written both and will let you know the results. — TL, Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congrats on the "find." TC, R

Response:

All I have to say is: we should have gone fishing yesterday.  You were destined to catch that once in a lifetime wild 30 inch Swift River

brookie. No kidding! And I probably wouldn’t have even minded the heat. <g — TL, Tim

Response:

"Stan Gula" All I have to say is: we should have gone fishing yesterday.  You were destined to catch that once in a lifetime wild 30 inch Swift River brookie. No kidding! And I probably wouldn’t have even minded the heat. <g

While you wimps were enjoying your cold drinks, I actually fished. Caught 30" of brookie more or less equally divided into five fish. Comgrats on the rod, Tim…gonna bring it next week? BTW, this good fortune also enhanced your Kreh number, (Lee must have known Lefty, right?), not to mention what it did to your Wullf number. <G George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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"Stan Gula" All I have to say is: we should have gone fishing yesterday.  You were destined to catch that once in a lifetime wild 30 inch Swift River brookie. No kidding! And I probably wouldn’t have even minded the heat. <g While you wimps were enjoying your cold drinks, I actually fished. Caught 30" of brookie more or less equally divided into five fish.

This takes counting to a whole new level. Comgrats on the rod, Tim…gonna bring it next week?

Yes. If you’re really nice to me I’ll let you hold it . . . just for a moment. BTW, this good fortune also enhanced your Kreh number, (Lee must have known Lefty, right?), not to mention what it did to your Wullf number. <G

Hey, anything that increases either of those is good. I’m almost at "1" now! — TL, Tim

Response:

Awesome.  Write down the "provenance" with as many dates and names as you can get.  If you decide to just keep the rod and later sell it, this will definately increase its value.

it’s a unique piece of luck and to be treasured. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

I was thinking of giving the pond a go at Wansford. Have you ever fished in the fly fishing part of the Canal? I am not sure if it is stil fly fishing only. I used to fish the normal bait part and there used to be some great Grayling in there. This was about 10 years ago mind you. A friend from work fishes Wykeham Lake at Scarborough quite a lot so I am going to give it a go also. I have done a bit of course fishing there also. Also maybe the lake at Pickering which I think is quite ‘easy’ for beginners.

I fished the pond at Wansford once last Oct.  It was a windy day and I managed 6 fish.  The pond is quite an unusual shape,  much like the letter U,  though it is fed at one end with water running in from the canal nearby. The trout station themselves in the  manner of stream trout at the feeding end,  though the flow is not so apparent in the rest of the pond,  as the depth deepens.   I looked at the canal near the post office,  and it was gin clear.  I enquired in the post office about the prospects of trouting, though I was told that there were no trout in this bit.  I asked him if he was sure that there were no trout,  and he told me that the whole  section had been electrofished recently,  and there were only 4 trout found.  I did drive up towards Driffield,  and see  "Flyfishing Only"  signs a couple of miles away from Wansford,  so I imagine that there might be some good prospects further towards Driffield.  When the spring comes,  I might conduct some further research in this area. The lake at Pickering is extremely easy for beginners indeed.  One day I went fishing with my Pa.  As we  set off from the house,  I foolishly told my Ma not to bother with food for the evening, as my Pa and I  would provide the food!  On arriving at the river  (Derwent near Hackness  (Scarborough)) my father and I were totally dismayed to see it in spate.  My Pops sarcastically suggested that I would be eating my words for my supper that night.   Mmm,  we thought,  "what can we do?"  We  would look rather silly if we came home with no fish, and after a little thought,  concluded  that Pickering is not too far away… . We certainly brought home a lot of fish  upto 7lbs.  Whilst we were getting our catch weighed in,  we asked the guy how many fish are stocked in his lake,  as there were very obviously a lot of fish in there.  We were told that in the summer in peak season,  upto 2000 fish a day are put in!!!! I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. I would love to join you at some time. Dinner or tea on me of course..

Cheers,  I’ll fix a day in May sometime.   The river is quite small (just over 1cubic metre per second mean annual flow),  though it is quite diverse over the 6 miles continuous double bank.  I like the river a lot,  and the trout are all wild.  What size rod did you get? All you’ll need is thigh waders, rod & reel. I can supply the appropriate flies if you want.  One thing though,  if you wear glasses/spectacles/contact lenses,  be sure to bring them,  as keen sightedness is essential! If you would like to read more about the rivers I fish,  and see photos of the river,  plus fish and read some text,  check out my website (completely non-commercial,  pure hobby stuff only)  for a log of my days out last season.   http://www.snapper.karoo.net/index.htm Keep in touch,  and I’ll get a day’s fishing arranged. Regards, Mike.

Response:

There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there .

I was thinking of giving the pond a go at Wansford. Have you ever fished in the fly fishing part of the Canal? I am not sure if it is stil fly fishing only. I used to fish the normal bait part and there used to be some great Grayling in there. This was about 10 years ago mind you. A friend from work fishes Wykeham Lake at Scarborough quite a lot so I am going to give it a go also. I have done a bit of course fishing there also. Also maybe the lake at Pickering which I think is quite ‘easy’ for beginners. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer.

I would love to join you at some time. Dinner or tea on me of course.. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Appreciate it – thanks, Steve

Response:

Plus, I’d bet, based on the description, he has the "755" (or the larger 756?), which, IIRC, comes with 3 spools, no? Either way, you’ve got fine enough gear to learn on and enjoy, at what, around 100 UK/150US?  Trust me, you’re got decent gear at a reasonable value for price.  Hey, who needs their name on a Winston…

I fished my first 12 years of flyfishing with a battered rimfly reel,  a cheapo 8.5 foot #5,  and a flyline that was old before I even got it.  I chuckle when I look at the rod now,  as all the rings are seriously grooved, and the tip hayfork is nearly worn through!  However,  that being said,  it worked "ok" at the time,  I caught my fish and had my fun with it.

Response:

If you want a day on the Driffield Beck, drop me a mail.  I may be able to ease your waiting list problems as well, I am still a member of several clubs with fishing in the area, and where I am not a member my brother is. I can not promise of course, but you never know. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist. Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve Ah,  really smart,  I live about 20 miles away  (N. Ferriby),  and frequently drive through HC.  Have you taken a look at the Driffield Beck system of chalkstreams?  They are truly fantastic.  I once fished on DB at the club there,  but I was only ten  and fished with my father as he was a guest for the day.  I am on the waiting list,  but it will be a long time before I get to fish there. There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there . I actually do the vast bulk of my flyfishing in the streams up near Ripon, or down near Ashbourne,  and these are very nice waters.  I am a memeber of 2 clubs that allow me fishing on about 15 miles of 4 rivers (Dove, Mannifold, Ure & Laver) Now and then I will go up to Scotland to fish the wonderful waters there,  but Yorkshire & Derbyshire has a lot to offer nonetheless. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Response:

Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist.

Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve

Response:

Do you have the shakespeare traveller/aerial?  8 ft  #5/6? (I had   one until it became my 3rd broken rod ) Where abouts are you in the UK?  I live there (East Yorkshire)  too and do a lot of flyfishing.  Let me know if there is any other flyfishing info that you require,  and I’ll do my best to assist. Micheal, a small world indead – I live in E Yorks too – Hutton Cranswick… Steve

Ah,  really smart,  I live about 20 miles away  (N. Ferriby),  and frequently drive through HC.  Have you taken a look at the Driffield Beck system of chalkstreams?  They are truly fantastic.  I once fished on DB  at the club there,  but I was only ten  and fished with my father as he was a guest for the day.  I am on the waiting list,  but it will be a long time before I get to fish there. There is a lake near Wansford that I have fished  and caught some rainbows, likewise there are many flooded gravel pits near Brandesburton that you can fish.  The Beck at Wansford is also a first class chalkstream,  however a formal club called "Sunhill" or something like that fishes it,  so it’s usually members & guests only there . I actually do the vast bulk of my flyfishing in the streams up near Ripon, or down near Ashbourne,  and these are very nice waters.  I am a memeber of 2 clubs that allow me fishing on about 15 miles of 4 rivers (Dove, Mannifold, Ure & Laver) Now and then I will go up to Scotland to fish the wonderful waters there,  but Yorkshire & Derbyshire has a lot to offer nonetheless. I think that you have made an excellent choice in your recent taking up of flyfishing;  I introduced some of my friends to flyfishing,  and they all took it up with relish,  even those who’d never fished before.  I would be delighted to offer you a day’s fishing on my usual water near Ripon sometime in the summer. Anyway,  if you need any advice  about flyfishing,  don’t hesitate to ask me. Regards, Mike.

Response:

.  Hey, who needs their name on a Winston… Winston?   If it wasn

Question:

That’s the best troll I have seen in a long time.  Raise the age limit another thirty years and include "married" and you can have a dirty old man. Good luck. Ernie

Hey, then I’d qualify! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday

Might be better to post this to    alt.ac-dc.lonelyhearts.fun or try joining the chat at www.thecaddis.com tonight at 8pm pacific.. this shop is based in Belmont and a few of the participants are local…. don’t know the marital or physical or mental status of the folks that show up, but like anything else on the ‘Net, y’spends yer $$ and y’takes yer chances… Larry #:)# 40+, married, partially psycho and fit (to be tied)

Response:

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d suggest you join a club; people are at least somewhat sane there. Drop by the Casting Pond in Golden Gate Park, right next to the Police Stable  near Polo Field on a Sunday morning, and you will find some local fishing club members holding their weekly meets. 40ish single flyfishermen are scarcer than hen’s teeth, but it’s your call…. JT

Response:

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F.

No, I’ll be Frank. You’ll be Nancy, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

50-ish married WM seeks flyfishing supermodel in her 20s (early 20s) in the SF Bay Area. I’m not a psycho. I’m just looking for a meaningful, platonic relationship with a member of the fair sex with common interests. Prefer proven fish catcher with ability to tie knots in 7x and 8x tippet threaded through size 28 flies. Will split the gas 50/50. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

– "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F. Dave

Should a young married couple be frank and earnest ?  No one of them should be a woman. Lets face it , all flyfishermen are weirdos. TL MC

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends.   Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

check out the two Casting Clubs in the Bay Area – G.G. Casting Club at the Angler’s Lodge in the park, and the Oakland Casting Club at Leona Park in Oakland, they "meet" Sunday morning The folks at the GG can give you directions to the Oakland Club – in the summer they do trips to No Calif., etc. Hope this helps.    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends.   Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends.   Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

ACW: Hell, that’s the most on-topic post I’ve seen this week! But watch out for a guy named Wayno. With an invite like yours, he’ll claim to be "in the SF Bay Area". If you hook up with him, he will definitely leave you…..changed! /daytripper (This was a Public Service Announcement ;^)

Response:

I know a ton of guys in the Bay that fit the bill, unfortunately (for me) I’m only 27.  Anyway if your serious I could put you in touch with some of these guys. Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Read Reviews on the Fly Fishing Gear you want! Before you buy.

Response:

That’s the best troll I have seen in a long time.  Raise the age limit another thirty years and include "married" and you can have a dirty old man. Good luck. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends.   Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Response:

I’d suggest you join a club; people are at least somewhat sane there. Drop by the Casting Pond in Golden Gate Park, right next to the Police Stable  near Polo Field on a Sunday morning, and you will find some local fishing club members holding their weekly meets. 40ish single flyfishermen are scarcer than hen’s teeth, but it’s your call…. JT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends.   Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Response:

I’d suggest you join a club; people are at least somewhat sane there. Drop by the Casting Pond in Golden Gate Park, right next to the Police Stable  near Polo Field on a Sunday morning, and you will find some local fishing club members holding their weekly meets. 40ish single flyfishermen are scarcer than hen’s teeth, but it’s your call….

I just read a chapter in Thomas McGuane’s new book, The Longest Silence, about the San Francisco Fly Casting Club. It’s called "Twilight on the Buffalo Paddock." That guy can write! If you go there, ACW, keep an eye on the underbrush. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Question:

For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area). … Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed…

I’ll confess to being part of the problem. We were in Taos for a week last October and found it a wonderful vacation spot both for me and my flyfishing and Kristine and her shopping/photography. I was able to find solitude, in October, the further I got from the "Enchanted Circle", FWIW. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area).  It always seemed to offer something for everyone…culture and restaurants for my wife, fishing and hiking for me.  I returned last week after an absence of 3 years and couldn’t believe the increase in fishing pressure and resulting reduction in fishing quality. Exhibit 1 — an small, alpine tailwater (maybe 60 cfm)with a nice population of cuts.  Catch and release.  Fished it three years ago, in the prime water on a WEEKEND, and saw one other rod all day.  Last week, on a Tuesday, had to scramble to find a stretch to fish.  At least 10 other rods on a 1.5 mile stretch. Exhibit 2 — a tiny mountain stream, 2 hour drive from anywhere. Walked in and got no hits.  Started moving quickly, and eventually ran into a fisherman.  I’d been fishing in his wake.  Walked another half mile, same problem.  Eventually had to drive a mile downstream, and walk another mile to get onto virgin water, then had a reasonable time. Unlike streams in places like Montana (or even the San Juan), the streams in North-Central NM are generally so small that they can’t support very much pressure.  Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed… Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day.

I’m all for this.  I was on a streak last spring– caught one fish on every outing for three weeks.  But, usually I don’t catch anything. It’d be great to have a regulation that guarantees me a minimum number of fish landed per day! — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

– Brice, Wake up! Where is the next fish you cook comming from? This is not a bunny hug, a tree hug, a rock hug or any other "Environmental issue." Say you own a pond with 100 fish in it, if you want to fish the pond every day, you will soon realize that catch and release is the only way you can sustain your sport. Or, of course, you could open a hatchery . . . . / o          /                                    |   __ /        /         Douglas Easton             |                                /                                      |                                                     *

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Well I will not judge you for your way of life, but don’t come up to Montana and try to catch and cook in any of the prime trout areas, because you will be arrested if I see it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

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fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K

It’s a nice theory but empirical evidence just doesn’t bear it out. In fact empirical evidence disproves it.  Go fish both the C&R and C&K section of the San Juan River for instance.  The two areas are adjacent. In a day of fishing the former you’ll typically catch about 30 fat healthy fish running 12-24 inches; in the latter you’ll catch a handful of scrawny 10-inch stockers.  Which is decimated? Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.

No actually, it’s too complicated.  The facts are clear, simple, and undeniable.   — -Wayne Trzyna

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: Hopefully, we’re not : carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. Why? Just curious… JonCook.

Since what was proposed was essentially an honor system, what’s the point of punch cards? I either follow the rules or I don’t. The paperwork is a potential bureaucratic nightmare. It just makes fishing more expensive for everyone. For the record, I have killed one fish on the Platte in 16 years of fishing it. The fin tags would be of no use to me unless someone could convince me that killing fish there improved the fishery. (Colorado has a great bag limit foroverpopulated pond brookies under 8" that more than satisfies my appetite for fresh trout and HELPS the population.) However the 40 caught per season is interesting. As tough as the Platte can be some days, therehave been numerous days where the seasonal limit would have been filled. I only get to fish there 1 to 10 or 12 days a year while I’m visiting family in the Springs. What about the guys who fish there much more than that? How would they feel? Or is the real issue here limiting the number of fishing days to improve the fisherman’s aesthetic experience as opposed to protecting a fishery? Could it be this is just a stalking horse for another round of yuppie bashing?  Not saying I know the answer, but it’s an interesting question. I fish the Platte during the week at off times of the year, often with snow on the ground, because I want to see fewer people. I guess with punch cards and fin tags I could go whenever I wanted and see fewer people, but I’ve come to love the Canyon more the times that I go than any other. Probably wouldn’t change a thing. BP

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wayne trzyna  wrote in article I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario.

This may be a naive assumption.  (Before you react.  Note that I said ‘may’.)  I have no facts on this issue (and certainly would appreciate it if anyone could contribute some), but it stands to reason that C&R could have it’s own pitfalls.  If it is true that a certain percentage of returned fish die as a result of having been caught and handled, and it is true that there are many fishermen who are successful at catching many fish, then it is theoretically possible for a larger % of the population to be decimated by C&R methods than by C&K (where fishers keep all they catch, must stop fishing when the limit is reached,  and compliance to these regs is high….i.e. an ‘ideal’ C&K fishery). Even what I’ve said above is overly simplistic.  We all know that there are a variety of factors that uniquely effect each fishery, and to some degree, I think the jury is still out as to what works best where.  There is no magic bullet that is going to cure the underlying problem…overpopulation of fishers.  (I sure aint gonna stop fishing, are you?).  Unfortunately, we have found all too often that well meant resource management techniques, even though they look good on paper, fail to measure up to our expectations.  I suspect that this may be true of C&R, at least on some fisheries, but again I have no specific facts. Does anyone know of any scholarly investigations of the long term impacts of C&R fishing?

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A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. How’s that? </c

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

: : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane : acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) : Ralph H : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

Ain’t nothing wrong with keeping.  Depends on why you fish.  Frankly, I like the total experience and an satisfied with the challenge, the "art" of flyfishing, the environment, etc.  I don’t need to harvest the fish to be satisfied and therefore I fish entirely catch and release. however, I certainly do not blame anyone for harvesting what can be used appropriately.

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is)

Yes, that is the fly in the ointment.  You could expect more stocks because larger fish produce more eggs, etc. – but remember only a few small ones would be kept. But you’re right.  The number of small fish would decline, especially on the SP – I doubt there is a great deal of natural reproduction and they won’t stock it, so……. </c – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ralph H

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year.

For anglers who keep some/most/all of thier legal catch, a 40 fish/year limit would be totally unenforceable.  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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Chaz, given the pressure on the SP, Ralph’s probably right. So, how about: Define some section of the SP, say Cheesman to Oxyoke (that right?), then, each angler can keep 4 fish per year, any size, and (this is the key) can only catch a total of 40 fish per year. With that, the SP would be a truely great fishery, and those 2-10 days you fished it per year would be much more memorable than the 50 you do now (you being anyone who fishes it that much now, not neccessarily Chaz). JonCook.

I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). you’ve got to wonder if a limit of 4 smaller fish will help either if the kill so seriously affects the larger fish. I think that most of us want our waters managed so there is a more or less normal distribution of all age classes. Wiping out one class to protect the other doesn’t make sense and will likely lead to an imbalance in the long run! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of : old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big : A friend of mine (bait fisher) had an excellent idea.  On the South : Platte around Deckers there is a 2 fish over 16" slot limit.   as a : result you won’t find a lot of fish over 16".  This is a wrong approach. : switch to 2, or4 fish under 12", and let the big ones go. : : How’s that? : : </c

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Sounds nice but what happens when all the bigs ones die of old age and here ain’t any little ones around to grow big because they’ve all been C & C’s (or whatever the latest inane acroynm or synthetic politically correct terminology is) Ralph H

I let the hatcheries replenish the stock. I also don’t get very many chances to trout fish so I make the best of the ones that I catch. BryceC

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        <<Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.) I fish the Tellico so there are plenty of fish around there. The Tellico Hatchery Stocks weekly. I also fish the West Prong Pigeon, the Little and the Elk. All have lots of fish. If I were fishing Abrahms creek or Rabbit Creek that would be a different story. I’m glad someone agrees with me. BryceC

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Jason, the reason game laws work is because most people observe them voluntarily. There is simply not enough DFG (or DNR, depending on where you’re from) money to enforce these laws.   Laws that are "more trouble than they are worth"  are the ones least likely to be honored by the requisite number of fishermen.                                                            -dnc- Jason Beary wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip]  Unless, of course, you gave them "tear-away tags"  as part of their liscense and made them tag the fins of thier fish.   Hey, what a great way to limit exclusive Catch and Kill fishing.  Make killing a bunch of fish more trouble than it’s worth! Jason B

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So if I get skunked, your going to fine me?  (No need to reply.  I know what you meant.  Just couldn’t resist) —                                                            -dnc- I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a …[snip]…. a minimum number of fish

landed per day.

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I think it’s about time that somewhere some fisheries managers bite the big one and introduce regulations that restrict all anglers in trout fisheries (or bass etc) to a minimum number of fish killed per year ( as Jon suggests) and a minimum number of fish landed per day. Ideally it would require a punch card or tag system and the max catch per day (regardless if they are all released) would have to operate fairly much on an honour system – but I think most fishers would do so.

This is unnecessary.  If a person is catching dozens of fish that fact implies there are plenty of fish to catch.  It seems silly to regulate "number of fish landed" in this scenario. I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size).

There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit. But I agree that slot limits that allow killing only big fish are counterproductive. — -Wayne Trzyna

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-Wayne Trzyna

<snip I don’t know much about the South Platte other than I recognize the name but it seems to me if you have a reg that allows killing only fish of 16" or over and fish that size are rare then something isn’t working (providing the river is able to grow good numbers of fish to that size). There are a bunch of dubious assumptions underlying this thread.  The fact that one is not catching bigger fish does not mean that there are no big fish to be caught.  We all understand this more than we’d care to admit.

If the 16" fish is rare then you will fish somewhere else right? If the 16" fish is rare, you will change the regs to protect them right? Seems there are an awful lot of people on this group going out of their way to poor mouth the Platte. I suspect Wayne knows that Cheeseman Canyon(Pure C&R) has plenty of 16"+ fish and has for years. Maybe its not like the eighties when there were many days when almost all the fish I caught were above 16", but… I must admit however that I have never caught as many larger fish below the canyon (kill one over 16" stretch), even in the better days. Numbers of total fish caught were somewhat similar though. Only 3 real differences between the areas: Better Habitat (Canyon), C&R vs. C&R&K(1 over 16"), Much easier access (below the canyon). Differences are probably attributable to a complex blend of  all three. The solution for the whole fishery should be derived deliberately. Hopefully, we’re not carrying fin tags or punch cards anytime soon. BP

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing. I eat reds and specks that I catch on an Abu Garcia 6500 as much as I do a 16 inch trout caught on a 18 Adams. It is a simple thing and would be common if it wern’t for the Bunny Huggers. Am I the only one that eats fish here? If you get a fish that is as good as a trout as table fair, you should make it table fair. i know I’ll get hell from everyone about this but I accept that. BryceC

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.

While that’s nice (and perhaps you’d like to trade some recipes): Somewhere some nincompoop(s) cooked this whole issue into a one or the other kind of argument. What was supposed to an idea of applying common sense for the good of fishing for the future has been perverted into a sort of quasi religion and had a concommittent religious backlash. That there are those who say you should never kill a fish and to kill a fish bespeakes a blatant disregard for the sport and the environment versus those who say there should always be a kill and a meal regardless or close a fishery down ( like you having to justify the cost of your sport with a meal on the table as if being on the water and hooking a fish or two can’t be enough) just proves to me there are people who don’t really want to think about an issue and then ironically decide they have all the answers. One eminent poster here once eluded to Ecclesiates and said there is a time to kill (as in your fishery has an undeniable surplus available) and a time to release (such as is the case for virtually all wild steelhead) where you can’t really be certain of a sufficient number of fish being available for the future of the stocks to be assured. It may be a matter of convention (like on the Dean) where the body of anglers fishing there agree releasing is the best thing to do or boil down to personal preference. But why not accept it as a fact sometimes it is best to let it live. For those that don’t like those sorts of fisheries they can go someplace else. It’s a big free wide world. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC

Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  Here in PA, wild trout would not exist in the numbers that they do were it not for voluntary C&R.  We have way more fishermen than fish to support the sport.  If people keep the fish they catch, it will not ever be able to be caught by other fishermen or yourself, guaranteed.  Here in the East, we would very quickly run out of the good populations of wild fish that already struggle to survive in the shadow of Man.  All Catch and Cook would do is deplete the resource to the point of destruction.  (But, then again, that IS the american way, isn’t it? Fuck it all to hell and let someone else pay for the baby.) Jason Beary

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        Killing a fish and eating it is not a dishonorable thing to do. The angler should use a little discretion, though. Where they are scarce, it’s foolish to kill them. On the other hand, if the trout are plentiful I may keep one or two per trip.         You are right, Bryce, when you admit that you are likely to catch some flak over this issue. But, where legal, it is your RIGHT to do that if you wish. People can holler all they want, but it’s their problem not yours. Just use good judgment, and don’t overcook those beauties. Enjoy! (Try poaching them in wine and garlic.)

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Jason makes a good point, but it is true that there is nothing wrong with keeping fish where it is legal to do so.  If you care about the resource (which you should if you want to continue to C&C) then I strongly recommend supporting a mixed management program in your area that protects some waters with C&R, some with limited C&K.  If eating trout is your real pleasure, try searching out the put-n-take waters in your area (if they exist).  Living in San Diego, as I do, means travelling long distances for abundant trout streams, but the winter fishing in local lakes for put-n-take trout is pretty good.  And believe it or not, the private hatchery that provides the fish feeds them on something that makes ‘em taste really good.  Maybe you can find something like this in your area.   —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its Catch and Cook. I practice it regularly. What is the point if spending hundreds of dollars in tackle and not eating a fish that you catch? I am not saying only fly fishing.  Am I the only one that eats fish here? BryceC Bryce; The point is that many (most) FFermen prefer the opportunity to catch lots of quality fish all year.  If I and all other FFermen kept a good % of the trout we caught, there would really be very little reason to continue the sport.  

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Question:

Flyfishing for bonefish in the stressfree environment of the Keys in March is the way to spend time for yourself and family. Try your skills on bonefish being caught from 9lbs and up. If you would like to spend a day on the flats, go to http://www.boneranger.com and plan your trip today! Hope to see you on the flats!

Response:

Flyfishing for bonefish in the stressfree environment of the Keys in March is the way to spend time for yourself and family. Try your skills on bonefish being caught from 9lbs and up. If you would like to spend a day on the flats, go to http://www.boneranger.com and plan your trip today! Hope to see you on the flats!

If you can go bonefishing just once in your life, do it. I am trying to get everyone to go, but especially the people that have fish for a life time in fresh water. It is so neat and if you are looking for a way to do it cheap, I can give you some advise. Going with a guide is really the best. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

. and.erols.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!warwick!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!nerc-keyw o

Question:

I know Loomis does, they have told me so.  I don’t know who else however, but Sage is a good possibility.  Their rods are very nice. Burton On Tue, 29 Oct – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

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Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

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LLBean is making their own rods now, I think they get their blanks from sage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

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Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

As of about 8 months ago I heard it was Loomis, but that report was from another fisherman, and we all know how reliable fisherman’s reports are. He said he called Bean, and they wouldn’t say exactly who manufactures their rods. Brett

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I have a 10ft. 5wt Double L designed for float tubes.  I use it for saltwater wade fishing.  Broke it once at the ferrule.  (may have been my fault but Bean replaced it.)  Has a medium fast action.  Works well for small snook and specks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to the NG, so forgive me if I have missed a thread on this subject. However, does anyone have any experience with the Double L rods, specifically the two-piece 5-weight? – MM

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I’ve been considering an LL Bean Guide series rod.  They’re made with IM-6 graphite, have medium-fast action and run around $190.  This seems like a great deal when coupled with Bean’s 25-year free replacement guarantee. Any comments about Guide Series rods? Dave Anderson Columbia, Maryland

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Sort of off the subjet of previous posts in this thread, but: I know that Loomis used to make some of Bean’s top rods.  Recently some of them have been looking like Sages, others like Loomis.  Anybody know the skinny on who’s making LL’s rods lately? zeno

Don’t know who makes them, but I had a chance to fish the Double L "S" saltwater 9′ 10 weight and it *looked* more like a Sage. It was matched with a #10 Bean intermediate line and casts were some of the most effortless I’ve ever made. If I were to buy a production rod this would be very high on my list.                                                         jc

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MM, I have a 9 ft 6 wt LL rod.  Bought it at the Bean outlet in Nashua, NH. CAsts great, looks great.  I would buy another any time.  It has a medium/fast action, is fairly light in construction and nicely finished. Gerry Crow

Hi Gerry, I’ve found all of LL Bean’s equipment both fly fishing and other to be of excellent quality.  I too think their rods are an excellent peice of equipment.  I do have one and use it but still am partial to RPL and Scott rods as well. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/expo/specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I’m relatively new to the NG, so forgive me if I have missed a thread on this subject. However, does anyone have any experience with the Double L rods, specifically the two-piece 5-weight? – MM

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MM, I have a 9 ft 6 wt LL rod.  Bought it at the Bean outlet in Nashua, NH.   CAsts great, looks great.  I would buy another any time.  It has a medium/fast action, is fairly light in construction and nicely finished. Gerry Crow

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Question:

I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

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I have no idea who Tim Walker is, but I thought he was kinda funny. .02

: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. : John Nesselrode : Shawnee, KS — Burnaby, BC

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

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I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

Well,I’ve been watching this group for a couple of years.First thing I saw was Tim Walker enjoying for creation of this group.Ever since I’ve been enjoying his postings -not that i agreed everything he claimed- because his capability of making us see things from another view.If you’re a C&R fanatic and don’t think flyfishing is basically about killing fish,you could’ve found him irritating and offending (wouldn’t have been the first one…),but now he’s been gone(i hope not for permanently) me for sure i feel this group has lost something vital, some sort of counterforce to all this commercial,forgetting-the-real-thing flyfishing that has been coming so popular these days.All right,I’ve never fished in U.S. and do not know very much about your conditions,but if it’s anything like here in Finland,i think our sport is going to be something else what it used to be.Even C&R can not make it what it used to be,and maybe we should forget all those beautiful imag es that the film "the river runs through it" painted for us.We have to accept us being a part of flyfishing industry, sponsored by hi-tech manufacturers. Sorry I didn’t answer your question precisely,but was merely sharing my feelings. As a famous finnish author (J.Aho) once wrote some 80 years ago: "first time the trout took my fly,I knew it was me hooked,not the fish." I wish I could have been fishing with him. And answerig your questions,i sure kill my fish.Last summer i killed two trouts (both about 16 inches) and some arctic graylings (about same size). And no sign of guilty.         no matter how you’re fishing,tight lines.                 -Pekka-

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little.

Tim’s postings were often very poorly thought out.  He had a habit of ignoring points that showed where he had contradicted himself while while trumpeting irrelevant non sequiturs.  He had some good points, but you had to wade through a lot of chaff to get to the good stuff. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin.

Tim accused fisherfolk in general, and C&Rers in particular, of being cruel and disrespectful of fish.  This is a serious charge, and it is difficult to make it without being impolite.  Tim was not always up to the challenge. I sometimes found Tim tiresome because he often seemed to be more interested in heat than in light.  It is not enough to start an argument. If a discussion is to be satisfying, then there should be a considered, reasoned exchange.  Tim frequently sidestepped perceptive replies, apparently preferring to inflame when he should have ceded a point and thanked the other poster for their insight. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

Tim is not a bad person, and he certainly did make a contribution, but sometimes he was also a pest.   — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Be thankful that he is gone. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1  

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I have tied 6 Elk Hair Caddis size 14 from one Hoffman saddle hackle. In fact, that is about average for the longer hackles. Of course, I usually palmer the hackle rather heavily.

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Rick Fletcher in a recent post said Newsgroups were created to promote honest discussion and argument; keep in mind networks were created mainly by academics and scientists and arguing is how we spend a good amount of our time.  If you don’t want to argue, fine, don’t join in.  But don’t complain because it happens.   Learn to use a kill file or a capable newsreader.  

One of the things that one likes to see is reasoned, open minded discussion.  Tim often did not provide this.  He often sidestepped relevant points.  Instead, he would counter by starting a new, unrelated, and irrelevant line of argument.  A string of non sequiturs is not an enlightening discussion.  Unfortunately, Tim did not flag his dopey posts, so we had to wade through a lot of nonsense to get to the interesting bits. In other words, I objected to many of Tim’s posts for the same reason that other people are incensed by ads; they waste my time by filling up bandwidth with undodgeable drivel.  Some of Tim’s stuff was good, but so much of it was nonsense.  It does not matter that Tim was here in the good old days when there were few people who had to suffer through his bad posts.  The fact is, regardless of Tim’s history or credentials, he posted a lot of time wasting nonsense.  That is pesty, no matter who does it. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Tim Walker sends me email – and he fishes for trout sometimes.  That makes him OK with me. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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What is HUAC, BTW? — Jim Powlesland                  | OFFICE:  403-220-7937 University Computing Services   | MESSAGE: 403-220-6201 University of Calgary           | FAX:     403-282-9199 Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 | URL: http://www.ucalgary.

ca/~powlesla/ HUAC=House Unamerican Activities Committee, a lovely little group set up during the McCarth era (not Gene) to investigate commie pinko radical and maybe even in the current time frame environmental types.  As a Canadian, you weren’t blessed with such a fine use of governmental resources.  The fact that Pavlov could even reference it (HUAC) means that he is either an historian or an old fart like me. Mike in PDX      "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                                Tom McGuane

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OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring? — Rick

Don’t expect the sandbars to be where you left them last season! :^) Charley

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net

by the ge neral public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their addr ess. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker

–     It is obvious that the two of you (maybe others) do not know Mr. Fletcher or Mr.Walker.  I’m sure you don’t. I do. No, not personally. I have been reading there posts for years now.  In fact, I have even written directly to  them for info and advice.     You have missed Mr. Fletcher’s point.  Actually, there is really no possible way for you to get it. You see, Mr. Fletcher has been on this board for years.  In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen him on alt. fishing .fly when that was being read.  To help make his point, let me inform you of this.  As little as two years ago there were very few people on the net.  In fact, there was a list of the users of rec. flyfishing.  It was only a couple pages long.  It hasn’t been too difficult to notice the changes that have taken place on this board. Was it better two years ago? Probably yes. No, there weren’t as many people or potential resources on the net but , it was much more personal and in depth.  There weren’t any mundane discussions about wader odor, proper hat color,or the Orvis wonder wagon.  That’s not to say there weren’t heated discussions.  Tim started his share of them then, too.     You see, it’s like comparing the country to cities.  The more people you have in one area, the more assholes there are likely to be.  Well, there are more and more people using the net.  Fortunately,there are alot of great new people on it. Unfortunately, there are alot of new assholes as well. It just so happens that most of these people (both kinds) are coming from aol., prodigy, etc.. And, access to the internet     Here’s to the new communications bill!     Jason         By the way, yes, my adress ends in edu.  However, I am a nymph fisherman.                                               Hardly an elitist venture.

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: Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a : lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual : challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, : that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because : it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. : I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net : by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without   : "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? One doesn’t need to be using an .edu machine in order to access the newsreader on that machine.  Perhaps I prefer the newsreader on my .edu account.  Some providers claim it is impossible, but there is this thing called telnet. How would you prefer I describe the growth in use of Usenet?  Prior to 2 years ago, the number of folks with access was limited…now it is less so.  I don’t mean to offend, but I’m at a loss for another way to mention the change. For example, I teach a class for tuition paying students one semester, then I offer it to the general public during summer.  Does this indicate elitism?  Or the opposite… I did engage in an ugly personal attack against one reader who called a friend a pest.  I think it is a big stretch from that action to elitist. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley

Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker —

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Jim, you didn’t perchance work for HUAC back in the 50’s and 60’s, did you ???

I think Jim picked up his technique (and accuracy) by studying McCarthyism. M

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OBffing: I just purchased another Hoffmann #2 and I’ve yet to tie "12 flys from one feather".  Is this folklore? — Rick

Rick,     Was it a neck or a saddle? :^) Charley

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Rick Fletcher writes: OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring?

I’d love to comment on this, Rick, but since I’m a pesky AOL user I doubt you would see any merit in my insights :^) I’m probably going to be checking out of this newsgroup pretty soon, myself. Too many advertisements; too many elitists. In this sense, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly has become a true mirror of the sport of flyfishing and everything that is ruining it. Besides, it’s too damn nice outside to be sitting in here! Happy trails, Steve

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: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope.

(snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue.

(snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It is the nature of Man to conserve within himself traces of ancient hatreds and battles.                                          - BonFar

Question:

Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money? Steve

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I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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If you often overtrain, get the HRM.  If you need more protein, get the fishing equipment.  Otherwise, you’ll just have to decide for yourself. — Ray Charbonneau    | MIT Library Systems| Everyone is entitled to my opinion.  *Disclaimer? Why?*|

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Buy the fly fishing gear and go have fun.  You’ll be more relaxed for your training and will in turn run farther and faster.  Besides, I’ve not yet met a marathon runner who has trained with a heart rate monitor, so I’m sure you can train hard enough to improve your time without one.   Buy the heart rate monitor next year, and don’t go out too fast in Portland, as the crowds during the first part of the race might make you go faster than you should. Best fishes, Dan

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When in doubt, go with the fun stuff. Buy the fishing outfit. Chances are you’ll use it more and longer. Mike T. — WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Club & Race Listings 200+ listings. Advertise your race. Club Home Pages. http://www.catalog.com/webrun/running/running.html

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Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers.

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I have both.  Believe me, I can cast a lot farther with a fly rod.

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Well, I’ve used the heart monitor before marathons, and it works well…I tended to use it by setting target heart ranges for faster paced running, when the monitor stopped beeping, I knew I’d warmed up enough to get into the target range, then when the monitor started beeping again, i knew i’d run enough (when it exceeds the upper end of the range it beeps) or that i was running too fast for the distance i wanted to go. However, if there was good fly fishing close by, i’d probably have bought the flyfishing equip. later Jim Danforth

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I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money? Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Steve, Its apparant your training is suffering from a lack of obsession. I refer you to Calvin and Hobbes from about two weeks ago.  T Training with a monitor lets you micro  analyze your pperformance with the goal being to satisy such standards as your training log and other people who wear monitors. Also there’s a coolness factor related to who might be impressed by the purchases.  Fish or friends?   I have trained with a monitor for a year.  Has it helped?  Got me. It is a diversion and something to do on those long runs. Steve Rogers When the going gets tough, blah, blah, blah

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[deleted] : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. Tim Walker

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: Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up : flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your : own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful : courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good : grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. : This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers. Hey, hey, hey!!!  Whatchit buddy.  This state still has the fighting words law.  That means I can bust you in the chops for saying such things and all the cops will do is make fun of your glass jaw or my right hook! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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: Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: : I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year : (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland : Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some : backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine : with a real fly fishing outfit. : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Where to spend my money? : Steve My vote is for the flyfishing gear.  As a bonus I offer you my "cheap" heart rate monitor:   If you’re breathing, its beating.  If you’re not breathing, it’s probably stopped (or will shortly). (sippinElkMountainAmberAleandrootinfortheBarracudainLongBeachCalifornia wheretheearthmovesundermyfeet)

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Get both. Many new runners pack up when they find that it takes discipline and effort to get fit. There are many HRMs lying dormant in people homes unused. I’ve just bought one for 10 pounds second hand. Look in your local paper I’m sure you’ll find one. Simon — Simon Walsh    

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: [deleted] : : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you : fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. And if the shoes don’t fit, Reebok Pumps make dandy strike indicators. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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