Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn
Several points to ponder: Get Garcia’s book on graphite rodbuilding. tons of good info there, especially if you’ll be turning the rod by hand. also: Instead of 5 minute epoxy for the reel seat, etc, go for something with a slightly longer cure time. I found some 15′ stuff that worked well, and was even stronger. makes you a bit less nervous about getting everything the way you want it in 5′ as well. Keep redoing the wraps until they’re just the way you want them. Wrap the winding check last; it’s the most visible wrap when you’re fishing, and by saving it for the end, you’ll have all that practice beforehand. Take one last look at the wraps and the guide alignment before you mix the rod finish. Once the epoxy goes on the rod, there’s no turning back. Use syringes to measure the epoxy and hardener, and use only syringes made/sold expressly for rodbuilding. Medical syringes, while cheap and abundant, have nothing to offer the rodbuilder but misery and regret. You *will* get bubbles in the finished wraps. Steam from a cup of hot water will make them go away. I’ve hand-turned all my rods and gotten nice results. Got nothing against the automatic turners, just don’t have one. Follow Garcia’s suggestions for turning intervals and you should be fine. I strongly suggest that you use an oven timer or something similar to remind you to get up and turn the rod, especially near the end, when the intervals have stretched to 30-60′. Finally, my overall advice is to be patient, and do a quality job. Your care (or haste) in building it will be evident for many years. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
Response:
A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion
Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC
Response:
Thanks Guys, I’m going crazy waiting for the damn thing to arrive in the mail.I was hoping to get it done this week while I’m still on vacation.I have a video and a pretty good book so I’m hoping things will go pretty smoothly, but no book or video can prepare you for my own personal style of screwups.My attitude is if I mess up I’ll just scrape it off and start over until I get it right. Regards,Shawn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC
Response:
Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn
Response:
I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders.
They watch some damn show that captures their interest and don’t turn the rod often enough. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – regards,Shawn
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I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. It starts with opening the package and goes down hill from there. The bright side is…you learn from every mistake. Have fun…it really ain’t that hard. jim
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Its already been said – Epoxy keeps flowing after you’r really sure it’s set up. You may turn the thing for hours and be sure it set, so you put it up. Next morning bumps where overnight the stuff has continued to flow. If you can jury rig something to turn it do so ( I made one cheap using a dryer timing motor 6RPM) If you have never built or repaired a rod before I suggest going to Goodwill or Salvation Army and buying one. Redo the guides and then give it back to them, it’s cheap practice. Good Luck
I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -builders. regards,Shawn
Response:
Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn
Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. good luck Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
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Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities.
Good advice all around. Equal parts is a good thing. I’ve been able to use steel kitchen measuring spoons to mix up 1 teaspoon at a time w/o problems. Mu
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward.
A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good luck Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
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… Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson
There is some opinion out there that acetone attacks rod finishes. Denatured alcohol has worked quite well for me for cleaning up epoxy that’s still in the fluid state, and it’s arguably less toxic for skin contact and vapor too. But acetone may be the right answer if the stuff has started to set up and you need to get it off. Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
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I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the house. Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
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I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the house. Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone.
Or just go to a charity store and buy a "china" (i.e., not plastic) dinner plate and a few dinner/butter knives. The plate "palette" will lhave room for several batches. TC, R
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Actually not.It leaves a distinct burn pattern that is readily aparent to an accomplished fire investigator. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the house. Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
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Question:
I think that for either Irish or, especially, Scotch whisky, you have to use Spey gear.
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Realize how silly this is? It’s starting to sound like, "it’s OK to use too-light gear and kill the fish because a dead fish is just as good as a live one so long as it’s left in the environment." I think I’ll start thunking my "released" fish on the head so I can take a nice picture of them on the grass next to my Orvis bamboo and woven creel; then I’ll toss them back in the river dead. On second thought, I think I’ll follow what’s his-name’s advice in the Curtis Creek Manifesto: "fly fishing is the classiest chess game in town. It’s only good manners to leave the pieces on the board for the other players."
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C&R exists to feed the bears ?
Not just the bears. Otters, ospreys, eagles, pelicans, and other critters that eat fish. In Yellowstone, the needs of the indigenous species take precedence over humans when it comes to using fish as a food source. Even dead fish (regardless of how they die) are a food source for the indigenous animals. No surprise, really, as Yellowstone (and other NPs) is managed as a natural area. BTW…..the C&R regs for Yellowstone are not universal. They apply to certain species and/or certain waters in the Park. There are plenty of C&K opportunities in the Park as well.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – C&R exists to feed the bears ? Not just the bears. Otters, ospreys, eagles, pelicans, and other critters that eat fish. In Yellowstone, the needs of the indigenous species take precedence over humans when it comes to using fish as a food source. Even dead fish (regardless of how they die) are a food source for the indigenous animals. No surprise, really, as Yellowstone (and other NPs) is managed as a natural area. BTW…..the C&R regs for Yellowstone are not universal. They apply to certain species and/or certain waters in the Park. There are plenty of C&K opportunities in the Park as well.
It doesn’t matter, it’s evil, EVIL I tell you. Don’t you know, I said it’s EVIL!!!!!! Why isn’t anybody listening to me? It’s EVIL and you all are EVIL for even uttering that word. How dare you talk about bears, it’s beers as far as Tim is concerned. The more beer present in your bloodstream, the more coherent Tim’s theories become…that is his grand scheme to take over the world. :-) Okay, I think I need to go eat now, too little blood sugar I suppose. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore
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Rusty Hook: Even if a fish is dead or dying, it is to be released, where it will be found (and eaten) by park wildlife. TBone: I struggle with this justification for C&R in a big way. C&R exists to feed the bears ? Doesn’t fly with me any more than leaving the half eaten jiffy pop on a stump for the same reason.
I see your point, and can see some potential problems with the policy, such as attracting bears (& other animals) to places frequented by humans. OTOH, I think the reason they say this is to answer the question, "So what do I do if a fish is gill-hooked, but illegal to keep? Won’t it just go to waste if I leave it?" Also, as others have said, in a national park, wildlife always has top priority (or should, anyway). I agree with you that it doesn’t justify C&R; I see it more as a policy of absolutely no harvest (by humans) in certain areas of the park, no matter what. When I’m in Yellowstone, I take it a step further by not fishing these areas at all. There plenty of park waters that allow some harvest, and that’s where I go. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.
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It doesn’t matter, it’s evil, EVIL I tell you. Don’t you know, I said it’s EVIL!!!!!! Why isn’t anybody listening to me? It’s EVIL and you all are EVIL for even uttering that word. How dare you talk about bears, it’s beers as far as Tim is concerned. The more beer present in your bloodstream, the more coherent Tim’s theories become…that is his grand scheme to take over the world. :-) Okay, I think I need to go eat now, too little blood sugar I suppose.
GEEZ!!!!!! SORRY! How foolish of me……. Oh…..I have tried the beer bit. At my normal consumption rate (not small), but I haven’t noticed an increase in coherency. I guess I need to increase consumption. I hope you have now restored your blood sugar levels….
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If you fish for stocked trout don’t worry about them dying, most do. Don’t touch a native fish unless you have to.
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[deleted] Even if a fish is dead or dying, it is to be released, where it will be found (and eaten) by park wildlife.
I struggle with this justification for C&R in a big way. C&R exists to feed the bears ? Doesn’t fly with me any more than leaving the half eaten jiffy pop on a stump for the same reason. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.
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around the goal of harvesting or gathering food. I mean, what other goal can there possibly be for these skills we practice? If it is not food, then it is just a game for our enjoyment, something akin to golf or tennis. Playing and landing a fish is just as important as getting it to strike in the first place, and even though you’ll never land all the fish you hook, you can improve (at least I can!).
You make a good argument, and if I am truly fishing for the table or the frig, I do "feel badly" about losing the fish. But mostly I C&R and at the end of the fight I will give the fish some slack and hope it self-releases. Actually bringing the fish to hand is unimportant to me, but I respect that others have a different perspective. Pat K
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : :But the set of skills is still centered :around the goal of harvesting or gathering food. I mean, what other :goal can there possibly be for these skills we practice? If it is not : People fish for very different, personal reasons. Most can’t really : even put into words the exact reason why they fish. How can you, : however subtly, tell someone that their reasons for fishing are : "wrong"? After I posted it, I imagined it might be taken that way given that when posted it enters a huge ROFFian context of previous discussions, and I want to say to Joe that I am not saying this has to be everybody’s "way". In regards to what you are saying, I am *not* saying anything about the reasons someone fishes, I am only saying something about the skills involved. I purposely directed it towards an explanation of the skillset, not the act of fishing itself. And since I said nothing about the reasons people fish, I certainly didn’t claim anyone’s reasons were "wrong".
I have a hard time buying that. Since it was in response to someone being happy fishing without a hook and the statement that fishing for other reasons makes fishing a game or sport, but yes I’m probably going by the larger "ROFF context". As long as you say here that other people’s reasons are not "wrong" then I’ll take your word for what you meant before. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore
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I’d LDR most of ‘em if I could get my fly back.
If your flies are de-barbed, you can usually do this by putting a little slack in the line. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Success to me is when you’ve done all : that right and persuade a fish to strike. I don’t deny there’s some : pleasure and satisfaction in bringing a big one to the net, but its a very : small part of the challenge, and I do that as quickly as possible. I’d : LDR most of ‘em if I could get my fly back. So, in my mind, if we are to be fishermen we should honor the complete set of skills that fishing is based on. Yes, we now can and often do go catch fish and release them, thus "practicing" the skills of fishing, and enjoying it. But the set of skills is still centered around the goal of harvesting or gathering food. I mean, what other goal can there possibly be for these skills we practice? If it is not food, then it is just a game for our enjoyment, something akin to golf or tennis.
This seems very condescending to me. We’ve had this discussion before. People fish for very different, personal reasons. Most can’t really even put into words the exact reason why they fish. How can you, however subtly, tell someone that their reasons for fishing are "wrong"? – Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau
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Yup, most definately. Provided you kill and eat what you catch. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.
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As I understand it, where C&R is mandatory, you have no choice but to release the fish. Keeping it would be illegal, for whatever reason.
This is brought up in the Yellowstone fishing regs. In the park, the main reason for c&r is to leave the trout in place as a food source for other animals. (This is also a major reason why the lake trout infestation of Yellowstone Lake is taken so seriously.) Even if a fish is dead or dying, it is to be released, where it will be found (and eaten) by park wildlife. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.
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<snip I’d LDR most of ‘em if I could get my fly back.
Easy fix – just clip off the hook. I’ve done that by accident many times (now I know to check my fly more often) and the fishing was just as enjoyable as with a hook as long as I didn’t know<G. Now I mostly fish barbless or with a pinched down barb so remote release is pretty easy. Maybe too easy… –Stan
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Success to me is when you’ve done all : that right and persuade a fish to strike. I don’t deny there’s some : pleasure and satisfaction in bringing a big one to the net, but its a very : small part of the challenge, and I do that as quickly as possible. I’d : LDR most of ‘em if I could get my fly back. Interesting…below is a piece I wrote for this month’s local FF club newsletter: Well, not me. Nope, nosiree. I feel bad when I lose a fish. After all, I failed to bring it to hand. And I don’t want to get comfortable with failure. OK, maybe you’re thinking that I take fishing way too seriously. It’s not that I get angry or anything like that—I enjoy fishing whether I catch something or not—but it’s just that I don’t want to get comfortable with a job half done, so to speak.
<snip I don’t disagree with you or at all preach that my way should be everybody’s way. It’s just that I grew up as a bait fisherman, spending many a day enjoyably pulling fish out of the Chesapeake Bay for fun and for dinner. I just don’t find that challenging anymore. I KNOW I can catch fish. I know I can retrieve a hooked fish more often than not. Playing a fish is still fun and I still like it; it’s just not necessary to my happiness. Relatively, I am a neophyte in the fly fishing arena. I have a lot to learn and a lot of skills to hone. At this stage of my ffing life, it is in conquering these challenges that I find enjoyment. Reeling in fish just isn’t one of them for me. Been there, done that. YMMV. Joe F.
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Amongst my fishing aquaintances, bragging rights go to the people who catch the biggest fish in relation to the lightest tackle. IME, after a 20 minute fight, the fish dies shortly thereafter. So how does one resolve the paradox of quickly and safely bringing in a fish vs. using light enough line to make it a bit of a challenge?
To me, that’s one of the biggest differences between fly & bait fishing. In fly fishing, the bigger challenges are in stalking the fish; selecting the correct stream position; selecting the right fly, tippet, etc.; and making a good cast and presentation. Success to me is when you’ve done all that right and persuade a fish to strike. I don’t deny there’s some pleasure and satisfaction in bringing a big one to the net, but its a very small part of the challenge, and I do that as quickly as possible. I’d LDR most of ‘em if I could get my fly back. Joe F.
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You’re fishing friends need to grow some more brain cells. I suggest using a tippet size that is sufficient to land the fish well short of exhausting it, yet fine enough that the tippet is not readily noticeable to the quarry.
Actually, that’s the much more interesting question. IMO the tippet should be the right size to turn over the fly, yet not hinder the desired action or float. I’ve read studies where fish pick off dead-drifting beetles, etc with huge pieces of mono stuck in them. I could be wrong but I don’t think visibility of the tippet is always of big concern. It could be in certain situations I guess. Regards, Jeff
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So how does one resolve the paradox of quickly and safely bringing in a fish vs. using light enough line to make it a bit of a challenge?
I resolve this "paradox" by not making the size of the line or tippet part of the "challenge". I just don’t play that game. The challenge is in getting the fish to take, and not letting it get off. If a small tippet is required for presentation, so be it. But I never would purposely use a small tippet or rod just to make a game out of landing the fish. Regards, Jeff
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David writes: Amongst my fishing aquaintances, bragging rights go to the people who catch the biggest fish in relation to the lightest tackle. IME, after a 20 minute fight, the fish dies shortly thereafter.
You’re fishing friends need to grow some more brain cells. I suggest using a tippet size that is sufficient to land the fish well short of exhausting it, yet fine enough that the tippet is not readily noticeable to the quarry. Pat K
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I usually only go light enough to fool the fish. Bragging about it is silly if they really are interested in letting them go. Mu
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Some people need or want "bragging rights" for all sorts of things. This is probably not the best basis for comtemplative fly-angling.
Amen! Peter G. Aitken
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Amongst my fishing aquaintances, bragging rights go to the people who catch the biggest fish in relation to the lightest tackle. IME, after a 20 minute fight, the fish dies shortly thereafter. So how does one resolve the paradox of quickly and safely bringing in a fish vs. using light enough line to make it a bit of a challenge? Does one change tackle if C&R is the rule of the day? Can anything be done to help a fish survive after a hard fight? I personally C&R most of the time, but don’t want to release a fish that will probably not make it.
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I personally C&R most of the time, but don’t want to release a fish that will probably not make it.
Assuming that this isn’t a troll, this topic has been done to death here, not that it won’t be again, or can’t be done now. Try doing a deja search on c&r or ethics, you may be surprised and incredibly bored with what you find. — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche
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The size of your gear should be matched to the size of your target fish. Purposely fishing too light is not a good thing to do as far as the fish are concerned. What is ethical is something you will have to decide for yourself. If one fishes, one must accept that there will be casualties, if this is disturbing, then one should not fish, irrespective of whether one practises C&R or C&K. The best way to ensure fish survival is to bring them in fairly quickly, unhook them without touching them, or at least wet your hands thoroughly before touching them. Holding the fish gently upright in the water for a moment may help to revive it. As I understand it, where C&R is mandatory, you have no choice but to release the fish. Keeping it would be illegal, for whatever reason. An exhausted fish is less of a problem if you are going to keep it anyway, you just knock it on the head. Some people need or want "bragging rights" for all sorts of things. This is probably not the best basis for comtemplative fly-angling. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de
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Also, _Taylor Streit’s No Nonsense Guide to Fly Fishing in New Mexico_ by Taylor Streit, David Banks (Editor), Pete Chadwell (Illustrator), David Marketing Communications; ISBN: 0963725661, is highly recommended. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry