Question:

I fish the manistee below m-72 when i can get the chance. I know the betsie much better though. I was on the manistee for the hex hatch this year. way too many bugs though. i didnt think i could ever be chased off of a river. mu i totally agree with you. I went onto steelheadsite and told everyone how i went to missouri and people that i met there told me that every one they met on their trip to michigan was arrogant. i no  longer wanted to be associated with fly fisherman. I just ignore it now though. if you are arrogant on the water to me. I will let you know. steelheadsite is a decent place. i met a guy off of there and he taught me a lifetime of things in 4 hours. great fisherman, great guy. dont judge everybody. but i do understand your prejudging of most of us fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Upper Manistee? As in Deward area? I have a couple of buddies taht love that section, I have never been there with them and can never quite seem to find the right spot. Lots of pretty water though. Small but gorgeous. Let me know how you do please?

Response:

Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers.

You should check out http://www.steelheadsite.com/reports/michigan/ After lurking there for a while you’ll figure out who the serious anglers are.  Try to get in contact with them.  Once in a while a biologist from among a few of the more trustworthy and non-idiotic regulars.  I used to try to post thoughtful stuff there but found that ROFF is a far better place for really interesting and substantive discussion.  As far as reports go, yes, ROFF ain’t such a great place for sharing info on your local streams.  However I did meet a wonderful gentleman named Wayne Williams here on ROFF and we went fishing up on the Manistee.  Capital fellow with top manners and Southern hospitality.  FWIW though, I stayed away from fly fishing for a long time because most (with a few exceptions) of the FFers I met afield in Michigan were real jerks.  During my time in Michigan I basically was a self-taught fly angler.  Taught myself to cast from books and videos.  Taught myself to tie flies and build rods.  Most of the FFers I’ve met so far in California have been extremely friendly, helpful and generous – to the point that it’s very surprising. Mu

Response:

Went below the CCC bridge a couple of months ago. Very nice time. Lots of action even though the size left a lot to be desired. All went back in, so they are there for you to enjoy as well. Did do some FFing above the bridge but did not have as much luck. WLM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Question:

These trout can be very selective though, if they are rising to "Benson and Hedges", "Camels" may be useless, and indeed on occasion only a "John Player Special" will do the trick,  reduced strength cigarettes have also been found wanting. Apparently the material used in the filter makes them float too low in the surface film, and even trout are not stupid enough to believe that soggy cigarette butts  are emerging aquatics. Untipped cigarettes may often prove effective, although they tend to disintegrate rapidly.  If you want a real lunker, then try throwing Havana stubs attached to a very long leader off a suitable bridge. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but

Response:

You guys have missed it altogether.  This fish are addicted!.  They obviously can’t smoke underwater so they do the next best thing and inhale the butts.  Imagine the high a lttle trout gets from the average sized butt?  I really doing think somebody should be suing a tobacco company about this.  After all, these fish could get really sick and if you eat them, you’re getting second hand smoke (or is that third?) Can anybody say, "Class action?" Peter

Response:

A few years ago, in April (it snowed that day) I caught a 3.5 lb Blagdon trout that a spherical glstening ball in its stomach.  On unwrapping it I could just discern some gold and the words ‘can damage your health’.  So it would seem. Gordon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These trout can be very selective though, if they are rising to "Benson and Hedges", "Camels" may be useless, and indeed on occasion only a "John Player Special" will do the trick,  reduced strength cigarettes have also been found wanting. Apparently the material used in the filter makes them float too low in the surface film, and even trout are not stupid enough to believe that soggy cigarette butts  are emerging aquatics. Untipped cigarettes may often prove effective, although they tend to disintegrate rapidly.  If you want a real lunker, then try throwing Havana stubs attached to a very long leader off a suitable bridge. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but

Response:

You guys have missed it altogether.  This fish are addicted!.  They obviously can’t smoke underwater so they do the next best thing and inhale the butts.  Imagine the high a lttle trout gets from the average sized butt?  I really doing think somebody should be suing a tobacco company about this.  After all, these fish could get really sick and if you eat them, you’re getting second hand smoke (or is that third?) Can anybody say, "Class action?"

One of the more amusing urban legends I’ve heard lately was an explanation of why so many deer get run over on the highway. After eating cigarette butts that people fling from their car windows, they become addicted to the nicotine, and hang out along the highways looking for more; sooner or later, they get hit by a car. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but I’ve learned a lot from trout guts. For example, I’ve learned that trout eat many more terrestrials than I thought possible. I’ve learned that trout on some streams often eat ladybugs and that smallish red humpies are excellent imitators for ladybugs. Importantly, I’ve also learned that my wife has no real appreciation for the disassembly of trout guts on certain kitchen counters. Also, she doesn’t particularly care for my habit of bringing chunks’o bugs from trout stomachs to show her while she’s painting landscapes. Important lessons, one and all. Today’s lesson, however, was particularly instructive in light of the recent discussion hereabouts on how much and how fast your average trout learns. Now, I don’t keep all that many trout, but when I do, I definitely like to see what the heck they’ve been up to, dining-table wise. Occasionally, if the surroundings support it, I even keep a largish one. So, it was with particular interest that I cleaned an 18 incher tonight, eager to see on what such a large (and presumably, smarter than average) trout might be dining. Tiny tricos? Evanescent midges? Taco supremes? In addition to a couple ladybugs, the first two things out of this particular stomach were caddis larvae. Complete caddis larvae — casings and all. In this particular river, the casings average about 3/4 inch to an inch in length, cylindrical, made out of the usual caddis larva materials of gravel and small sticks. Probing further, the next item on our trutta post mortem appeared to be yet another caddis larva — same length, same diameter, same…waitasec. Most caddis larvae don’t rebound when you press on them. Most caddis larvae aren’t fibrous. Most caddis larvae don’t read "Benson & Hedges" on the side. Yup — it was a cigarette butt. In addition to mocking whatever pretensions I might have had about fishing on a "pristine" stream, this event also gave new credence to that episode in, "The River Why," where Gus concocts a fly made out of hot dog wrappers and cigarette butts to fool the wily old bass in the town pond (’scuse me if my memory isn’t totally clear on that passage…think I’m getting the gist of it nonethemenos). It also made me question the advisability of imagining too much intelligence on the part of your average trout brain. Maybe sometimes the answer is just to throw something big, ugly, and nicotine-stained out there and hope for the best. So, anyway, the long and short of it is that I’ve started smoking. Besides having heard good things about the habit in general, I also need a ready source for new inventions at the vise. Look for a gold-ribbed Camel’s butt at a fly swap near you soon . tight lines and full ashtrays, – sid

Response:

Question:

I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.!  How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

        thanks, mate…up the empire! wayno

Response:

Thanks, Pete.  On behalf of the yanks on ROFF I’ll extend a welcome to the US – even though LA is (in my opinion) not necessarily representative of the rest of the country.  Go east, young man! (at least to the Rockies!) Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.!  How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

Response:

Happy 4th to you too.  I am planning to trip to your country in November.  Any fly fishing that way?  

Response:

says… Happy 4th to you too.  I am planning to trip to your country in November.  Any fly fishing that way?  

You betcha!  Try Tasmania, home of some huge wild brown trout.  I can recommend London Lakes Lodge. http://www.londonlakes.com.au/domino/londonlakes/londonlakes.nsf/html- v/home This is run by Jason and Barbara Garrett – Jason was the captain of the Australia flyfishing team, and is extremely knowledgable.  The London Lakes complex is 5000 acres of privately owned and superbly managed fishery.  Sight-fishing for huge brownies at its best!  Tell them Pete from Brisbane sent you. ) Also, excellent stream and large lake fishing in the Snowy Mountains and the Monaro district on mainland Australia in New South Wales.   The world flyfishing championships are being held in the Snowy region this year, particularly on Lake Jindabyne and some of the excellent trout streams high up in the mountains. Depending on the time of year of your visit, closed season is usually June to August, re-opening in September or thereabouts. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

Response:

I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.!  How’s that for addiction???

Last time I was in LA for a weeklong vacation, I lept out of bed at 5:30 every morning, didn’t brush my teeth, didn’t bother getting out of my sleeping clothes and immediately hopped into the rental car with my buddy from Boston and drove straight for the ocean. ( Took one day to go fish San Diego and another to ride a party boat with some non-fishing friends).  Came back at noon and raided my host’s kitchen, took a shower with my fly lines and then hung them up to dry.  I was a groomsman in a wedding party on the last day I was there.  We went fishing that morning too. Landlocked Mu

Response:

I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.!  How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

Response:

Question:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

I have one of these.  I use it on a six weight.  Casts like hell -hinging, etc…  It will get a streamer or nymph down a little, though.  Effective to about six or eight feet.  In general, I would not suggest it.  You can do as well with a longer leader and a couple of split shot with a floating line. J

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

Frank, I have one of these and they work ok in a pinch if you hit one or two deep sections and then go back to more moderate depths but if you are going to be fishing deep for extended periods of time my advice would be to buy a sink tip.  I do carry the Orvis sink tip for emergency use but they are a pain to cast and don’t get you down as well as a real sink tip fly line would in my experience. Good Fishing, C. Segina

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line?

I haven’t seen Orvis’ up close but Cortland’s tend to be too heavy for my 4 wt.  I have a beat up old full sinking 9 wt line and the thin running portion of it is perfect for making mini sink tips.  The only drawback is that this requires a loop to loop connection.  I prefer nail-knotting a piece of thick leader material and then tying a perfection loop at the end since it lands on the water more softly than a fly-line looped end. Mu

Response:

Frank, Splurge and go for the full line in a medium density.  Use it on a longer rod with a short (3 to 4 ft) leader.  The rod length is for mending and good control.  Don’t believe those who say any old rod and a long leader.  You need to mend and the fly needs to sink.  The longer the distance between the fly and the weight of the tip section, the higher the fly will ride.  You can use leader length to fine tune your drift depth. I made those mini sink tips from lead core years ago.  They’ll sink your fly, but you won’t like the casting unless you’re using 8 wt line+.  They cast like slinky weights on running line — chuck and duck. Mike If you buy a sink tip that has too much tip for your needs, you can just cut it down and reattach your leader butt.  

Response:

Frank: I’ve used the Orvis lead head sections – I don’t think they offer them any more – that must be similar (though shorter) than the 5 ft sink -tip head that you are looking at. These things came in 12 inch and 24 inch sections, and could be looped in at the end of the regular fly line, and the leader looped on the other end.  I think they are quite useful in certain circumstances.  I keep them in my vest, and if I need to go deeper in a spot they work very well – but they are not a substitute for a true sink tip line, say for lake fishing. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

Response:

Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

Response:

I have tried these and they will sink your line well but, having a sudden transition to denser line,they are far more difficult to cast than a true sink tip line (but also cheaper). If you have the money for a line and spool, go for the full line. The most effective place for your weight lies in the fly though. Go with a longer leader and a weighted fly for the best effect. Orvis has a "sink tip system’ that includes 5 foot sink-tip sections that will convert a floating line to a sink-tip one. Has anyone tried this? Does it work ok or would I be better off buying an actual sink-tip line? Frank

– Remove "nospam" from address if emailing direct.

Response:

Question:

   Ok folks, tommorow will be a one day snapshot of flyfishing accross the globe, all to be posted here for the world to enjoy.  I will not be anywhere near a computer until Monday morning, so let’s decide what the header will be for our results so they’re all in one thread.  I know some participants may post over the weekend, so for simplicity’s sake, let’s call it Fishing Day Results.  Yes?  No?    I’ll be heading up to some high desert lakes myself, feeling pretty good about the prospects.  We’ll see on Monday! JE

And for those who can’t fish tomorrow, Sunday the 18th will automatically be deleted and the 17th will carry over for another 24 hours. Big Al

Response:

   Ok folks, tommorow will be a one day snapshot of flyfishing accross the globe, all to be posted here for the world to enjoy.  I will not be anywhere near a computer until Monday morning, so let’s decide what the header will be for our results so they’re all in one thread.  I know some participants may post over the weekend, so for simplicity’s sake, let’s call it Fishing Day Results.  Yes?  No?    I’ll be heading up to some high desert lakes myself, feeling pretty good about the prospects.  We’ll see on Monday! JE

Lucky b—-r, I’ll  be stuck battling a fibreglas hatch on the Credit. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

    Ok folks, tommorow will be a one day snapshot of flyfishing accross the globe, all to be posted here for the world to enjoy.  I will not be anywhere near a computer until Monday morning, so let’s decide what the header will be for our results so they’re all in one thread.  I know some participants may post over the weekend, so for simplicity’s sake, let’s call it Fishing Day Results.  Yes?  No?     I’ll be heading up to some high desert lakes myself, feeling pretty good about the prospects.  We’ll see on Monday! JE

Response:

Question:

Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

Response:

I bet it would work great at first.  But if you’ll read the label, it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. As for myself, a rueben sandwich with hot peppers and a budweiser pretty much makes me unsinkable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

Response:

it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would

damge flyline and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? vince norris

Response:

Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. Not knowing what the distillates are, it is unclear what effect they might have on the fly head cement, artificial and natural colors, waxed thread, etc. "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

Response:

Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.

        my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.  If you get solvent onto the coating, a wide variety of things can happen, most of them bad.  Typical results can include (but are not limited to) cracking, softening, peeling, loss of the outer skin, etc.  Probably the worst one is the softening.  I have seen fly lines that were contaminated with gasoline or diesel.  These lines were as limp as overcooked spaghetti, and cast about as well.   Other things you need to be really careful about are- sunscreen, and insect repellant. Be very careful about what you put on your $50 fly line, it could ruin your day.  There are a variety of "resonably priced" line cleaners and dressings out there.  Personally I like Glide, with the caveat that I have to be able to let it dry for long enough before I buff it off(1-2 hrs)-If you do not let it dry, or do not remove excess, it is like glue.  Otherwise, I will use SA line cleaner and dressing in a pinch.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.

The Advantage to using rain x is it works best when dry. You pre treat all flies the night before. The next day you are ready and will not get any thing on the flyline but the water you are fishing in. Jim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <HTML &nbsp; <BR <BR <BR Rain-X ought to work.&nbsp; It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and <BR when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or <BR under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired? <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a. wayne harrison</BLOCKQUOTE _______ No Wayne honey, I’m not asleep.&nbsp; I just know you know better.What you say about solvents destroying fly lines is excellent and accurate. <Pgeorge gehrke <BRmr. gink <P_______ Now you force me to review the copy below that followed. <

        i knew you wouldn’t dissapoint me, george…         a. wayne harrison

Response:

The last distallate I tasted was in a little ’shne from the hills.  Didn’t like the taste….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

Response:

it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate?

Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

Response:

Question:

Okay, with this post, we’ve established absolutely nothing. Everyone is going to have their own opinions. But, if you will note the subject ‘-freshwater fish-’ then you will find that the original poster might have wondered about the best freshwater gamefish. Last time I checked, tarpon and mullet aren’t freshwater fish. Since that established nothing, why not establish nothing again? Which saltwater fish is king? Thanks, Bryce

Response:

Okay, with this post, we’ve established absolutely nothing. Everyone is going to have their own opinions. But, if you will note the subject ‘-freshwater fish-’ then you will find that the original poster might have wondered about the best freshwater gamefish. Last time I checked, tarpon and mullet aren’t freshwater fish.

FYI….They live in both fresh and salt water….  Since that established nothing, why not establish nothing again? Which saltwater fish is king? Thanks, Bryce

WHALE SHARK on a 8 wgt. fished with a 1000 naught, 64 inch, 15# dumbell head/eye chartreuse/white clouser with a 150 lb shock tippet. Bimini twist optional. seriously… Permit me to vote *PERMIT*. (btw, I’ve never had the pleasure of catching one with a flyrod…but years ago I did land one on a light spinner outfit in the Florida Keys and that memory still burns bright in my gray matter, or what’s left of it.)

Response:

In my meager opinion, pound for pound ( or ounce for ounce) bluegills are the most fun to catch.  Tying on a tiny midge, or a fair sized popper for a big fat "sunnie" is probably the most fun one can have on a hot summer’s day.  Next time you fish for these little guys, notice how vicious they can be!  It’s great!   If sunfish grew to be the size of muskies, I’d never wade or swim in a lake or pond again!  :) John W. Kramer                           Clearwater Outfitters                   WE ENDORSE CATCH AND RELEASE (717) 938-3423

Response:

If sunfish grew to be the size of muskies, I’d never wade or swim in a lake or pond again!  :)

Hell, they try to be dangerous at the size they are now…    Have you ever accidently stood in a bluegill’s nest while swimming?  They will not hesitate to bite you.   And if you put one in your aquarium at home, they will quickly claim the whole damn tank as their territory, and do their best to kill the other fish, bigger or not. Tough little buggers, and one of God’s greatest gifts to the fly fisherman! Bob Scott

Response:

   For King, Snook. Tarpon run a close second, bonefish third, nothing beats Ladyfish on trout tackle (fourth) and for sheer power, #5 vote goes to the Jack Crevalle.

Response:

I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.

Atlantic Salmon in a lake in Oregon?  How did they get there?  I’m not surprised they’re struggling! — Phil Jones Swansea, S Wales

Response:

You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote.     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?

Gotta agree with you James, Of all the west coast salmonids the sockeye does the goofiest things when hooked. Tailwalks and high jumps are one thing but to watch a 10lb. sockeye go 3 or 4 feet in the air while wrapping line around itself like an out of control winch is something else indeed. Not much for long runs, but they seem almost epileptic in their behaviour when close to the boat or shore. Pound for pound the most powerful fish has to be the steelhead ( on the West coast ) Can’t comment on the Atlantics as we won’t be able to catch them here for a few more years (a couple more involuntary escapements from the local fish farms otta do it!) "Catch and release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

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I have fought some 3-5 LB shad that struggled and ripped line off more than a 20+ LB steelhead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Question for fellow flyfishers:    In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?   The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic  salmon?  I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly? Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote.

Right.  Ive seen fresh sockeye so enthusiastic they jump 10 feet out of the river, land on the bank, then tail-flop themselves back in, before you can reel in the slack!  I saw one jump and hit the fisherman in his chest one time. — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

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Carp.  Survive anywhere.  Dams, cows and polllution haven’t killed’em. Bar room brawlers on light tackle.  At least as spooky and hard to catch as other species mentioned….specially on a fly. — Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past       I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

I DONT GIVE A RATS  ASS ABOUT WHICH FISH IS KING,THEY’RE ALL FUN ON THE LONG ROD.AND ANOTHER THING,HOW IN THE HELL DID A MULLET GET THAT FAR UP THE ST. JOHN’S?AND I GUESS THE 64$ QUESTION IS HOW DID YOU GET IT TO HIT A FLY LINE!

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TARPON THATS ALL I’VE GOT TO SAY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past       I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl. I DONT GIVE A RATS  ASS ABOUT WHICH FISH IS KING,THEY’RE ALL FUN ON THE LONG ROD.AND ANOTHER THING,HOW IN THE HELL DID A MULLET GET THAT FAR UP THE ST. JOHN’S?AND I GUESS THE 64$ QUESTION IS HOW DID YOU GET IT TO HIT A FLY LINE!

      Mullet are often in the St.John’s past Palatka and are legal to spear fish in salt run. Most of the St.Johns is tide water and is shrimped with cast nets, sting rays are caught as far south as sanford and the European ell comes upstream as far as Lake Monro as well as croaker. Now as to getting a mullet to bite on a fly line, it requires "chumming" with chicken feed as follows- Take a handfull of chicken feed and dampen it forming a semi cohesive ball, throw the ball into the water and they will come. The mullet often roil the water to a foam. After throwing the "chum" into the water fallow quickly with any slow sinking fly in the middle of the feeding and hang on. By the way The rodman spill way is part of the Oklawaha system and slows the millions of gallons spewed from silver springs to the St.Johns river. It is heavy with strippers, reds, catfish, bass, and various species both fresh and salt. While I lived in San Mateo, it was one of my favorite fishing spots. Many salt water species travel far up the St.Johns to spawn.

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 Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight. Right. One of the most enjoyable things to do is walk to a bream pond and pull out those thrashing blugills one after another for hours on end. Bryce

I vote along with you guys. Ounce for ounce, the mighty bluegill is one feisty fish. –Walt

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What ever is on the end of my line at the time…. I have had my mouth go completely dry, I was so excited the first fish I caught with a fly I had tied myself… It was a small bream.   Same feeling when a nice trout.   Same feeling when a "baby" four foot tarpon "takes high air", and same feeling when a brown finally decides my offering is worthy……   I get excited by em all… and that’s after 58 years….  I still dream about rank fish for greatness in battle I would list them as 0.  Bream – especially on a very light long rod… 1. Atlantic Salmon 2. Small mouth bass 3.  Steelhead trout 4.  Tarpon 5.  King Salmon and one of the toughest never give up, never lay over fish, I have ever caught is a char… I don’t necessarily like the way a brown fights because they don’t show themselves… Supposedly there is a strange fish in New Guinea that requires 1/8 cable to hold and a 55 horse power motor going in full in opposite direction to keep it out of the trees and a 130 pound/wire shock tippet and one still stripped the gears out of the motor pulling the boat against the prop!!!!!  least that’s the way I heard the story but have never caught one. I need to go fishing… hope this weather clears… Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

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Supposedly there is a strange fish in New Guinea that requires 1/8 cable to hold and a 55 horse power motor going in full in opposite direction to keep it out of the trees and a 130 pound/wire shock tippet and one still stripped the gears out of the motor pulling the boat against the prop!!!!!  least that’s the way I heard the story but have never caught one.

I’ve never caugh one either, but the do exist. Papuan bass or New Guinea black bass are reputed to be awesome stump pullers. Your descriptions are probably not far from the truth. They are a fresh water lutjanid (snapper) and have been caught to around 50lb. Lefty Kreh has a video with some New Guinea bass action, and if you see it, Greg Norman (golfer) has fishing video that covers them too. John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’  

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Walter G. Winter wrote I vote along with you guys. Ounce for ounce, the mighty bluegill is one feisty fish.

and don’t forget the penalty for mishandling these little buggers —                                                             -dnc- to reply, change ‘dnc’ to ‘dcollins’ in email address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Walt

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  Question for fellow flyfishers:     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?     I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly?  Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

    In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?  

James Henshall wrote more than a century ago it was the "black" bass i.e. smallmouth. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

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In my experience the most thrilling fighter is the Steelhead.  They do a jumping, tail walking, head shaking fight that is unparalleled. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO  http://www/ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Question for fellow flyfishers:     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?     I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly?  Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

 Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.

Right. One of the most enjoyable things to do is walk to a bream pond and pull out those thrashing blugills one after another for hours on end. Bryce

Response:

IMHO it is the one on the end of my line at the time. J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

      I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

Was fishing stripers yesterday, at a lake where just last week me and my girlfriend were slamming fish very well. But yesterday, I pretty much got shut down. But there was this kid, about 15 or so right next to us that was doing great. I tried lures, livers, mackeral, chovies, all the normally good stuff. The only 2 things I see the kid doing that I usually dont do is 1, he was using light line, maybe 6lb, and he was fly lining his bait. Chicken livers. I start fly lining, but still dont get bit. So I figure maybe its the line, I got green 14lb, water is pretty clear. I have never known stripers to be line shy or hook shy. Im trying to figure out why the kid was doing so good. Cause usually I do well myself. Lots of baitfish in the lake, maybe they get to be fussy eaters when they are eating so well. Any thoughts? stev — stev_ix_netcom_com is a fake. Sorry, Im tired of all the crap I get in the mail.    

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fishin’    Garry

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says… fishin’    Garry

I have no pride about fishing. I asked. Thats how I learn, I watch and I ask everyone everywhere I go. Great thing about fishing, most folks are willing to share info, maybe not all their secrets, but some. His suggestion was to flyline the bait, which will get you a lot more visibility on the slow sink. Plus snagless retrieves as you are above the bottom. He was using a slow retrieve, kinda like worm fishing. I tried that, and still didnt get bit. Only other diff I could see was his light rig compared to my 14lb. Beats me. The kid had the touch. Was funny, he was making his dad look bad but Ill bet dad was proud. There seems to be a fishing god, whom deems luck on some and takes away from others. Besides skill, that is. Ive had lots of days doing the same thing, getting lots of fish where most using the same tactics and bait/lures etc were not getting much. I wont argue that there is some luck involved in fishing. Dunno the ratio…maybe 80% skill/20% luck? Now theres a topic for discussion.  ;) stev — stev_ix_netcom_com is a fake. Sorry, Im tired of all the crap I get in the mail.    

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Question:

   I was poking around the Hiwassee in Tennessee recently, and a friend took me to a tributary, Springwater Creek.  True to its name, this creek had crystal-clear water.    Anyway, there were PILES of trout-size fish holding in pools near the mouth of this creek.  My friend said they came upriver to spawn but couldn’t be caught.  He told me what they were, but I’ve forgotten the name…I think their name had the word "red" in it, like "red horse" or something like that.    Does anybody know what these are?  More importantly, is it true they can’t be enticed by a fly? (I saw plenty that were over 12".) —         Scott Wilkinson         Montgomery County, Maryland

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I was poking around the Hiwassee in Tennessee recently, and a friend took me to a tributary, Springwater Creek.  True to its name, this creek had crystal-clear water.    Anyway, there were PILES of trout-size fish holding in pools near the mouth of this creek.  My friend said they came upriver to spawn but couldn’t be caught.  He told me what they were, but I’ve forgotten the name…I think their name had the word "red" in it, like "red horse" or something like that.    Does anybody know what these are?  More importantly, is it true they can’t be enticed by a fly? (I saw plenty that were over 12".) —    Scott Wilkinson    Montgomery County, Maryland

Yes, they are called redhorses.  There are actually several species of them, namely the black-, silver-, river-, golden-, and shorthead- redhorses, but you have to be an expert to tell them apart, as they look extremely similar.  They range up to about 20 inches, when they weigh about 3 or 4 pounds.  They dont fight very well in my opinion.  They eat matter off the bottom, rarely if ever eating something in the water column.  When they spawn, THEY SPAWN, concentrating in huge numbers.  You can take a flashlight at night and see them everywhere  at good spawning sites.  I have caught them using crawfish tails and earthworms, fished on the bottom, but I dont think I have ever caught one on a fly.  They seem to feed by taste more than by site, and a fly would have to be on the bottom for them to even consider taking it.  I am afraid fly fishing for them would be impractical. -Josh Crunk -Cookeville,  TN

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writes: <stuff about suckers  but I have never seen them take an artificial.  Liek most suckers they feed by smell, something flies lack. Crashjibe

I have caught several suckers on steelhead flies and nymphs.  This was before I found out about shrimp oil , so I am pretty sure they picked the flies up on sight.  Have also caught carp on unbaited jigs, so I would be careful about broad characterizations about what these fish do and don’t do. ATB

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Red horse is a midwestern name for a type of sucker found in streams and rivers of the Ohio/Mississippi river drainage.  They do look somewhat troutlike from above. When I was a graduate student we used to get lots of them electrofishing (a form of non fatal stunning), but I have never seen them take an artificial.  Liek most suckers they feed by smell, something flies lack. Crashjibe

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I am afraid fly fishing for them would be impractical.<

Ah, not so. In clear water, redhorse and other suckers will eagerly take a nymph rolled on the bottom. They are bottom feeders for the most part, but will also take dries if you happen upon them during a heavy hatch. Their topwater feeding is particularly interesting because, with their mouths on the underside, they have to roll inverted to suck in the flies. Good fighters, though, capable of stripping a light reel in short order. JL 8-Wt Editor

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I ‘ve taken red horse on a #10 Hares Ear esactly where you speak of.

Ted W. Simon                                 Nothing is true.  Everything is permitted.                                                         – William S. Burroughs                                                         – Cities of the Red Night

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I believe these are also "red horse suckers" or a carp species.  You can catch them on a fly, especially if you are fishing for steelhead right along the bottom with nymphs.  I have had this accidental experience. The take is subtle, and there is an initial sharp tug, as you would expect from any fish of this size.  But you soon find that you are doing the euqivalent of dragging in an old boot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yes, they are called redhorses.  There are actually several species of them, namely the black-, silver-, river-, golden-, and shorthead- redhorses, but you have to be an expert to tell them apart, as they look extremely similar.  They range up to about 20 inches, when they weigh about 3 or 4 pounds.  They dont fight very well in my opinion.  They eat matter off the bottom, rarely if ever eating something in the water column.

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Question:

I’ll keep this short & sweet.   We’re just learning to fly fish. We’d like to go somewhere and practice our casting and line handling skills in moving water in mid-May. We’d prefer not to need waders.  We’d prefer not to drive too far from the Bay Area. It’s not crucial that we actually Catch Fish, but it would be more fun if we thought we had at least some tiny chance of doing so. I thought about the American R. in Sacramento, but don’t know the shoreline. Is it possible to fish w/o waders?  Are there some clear, non-brushy areas where we won’t get too many snags on the back cast? I’d prefer not to go to the Russian R., because we drive north on 101 several times a year for wine tasting etc., and we’re just getting a little bored with it. I know a nice wide open gravel-banked stretch of the McCloud river, but that’s a pretty hefty drive. Any advice, tips, etc? Thanks Mark

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We’d like to go somewhere and practice our casting and line handling skills in moving water in mid-May.

Mark, The water’s not moving, and you surely won’t catch fish, but a good place to practice casting is at the casting pools in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. There are generally plenty of expert casters hanging around the pools who are willing to offer casting advice to beginners. It doesn’t take the place of actually being astream, but it’s quite convenient… Fred —         Fred L. Templin

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(Mark Hurwitz) writes: I’d prefer not to go to the Russian R., because we drive north on 101 several times a year for wine tasting etc., and we’re just getting a little bored with it

Weelll, isn’t that special?:) I’m so happy Mark and his friend are adding flyfishing to their collectoin of really cool things to do. I don’t suppose Mark will be arriving at streamside in a late model BMW now will he? It’s FISHING, Mark, you’re supposed to get wet, and tangled up in "brushey areas which snag the backcast".  All I can say is: good luck, and don’t leave home w/out your american express card. P. Dundon

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