Question:

You are not going to want to hear this but . . . . . . you are going to have to become a better fisher if you want to catch larger fish in a Westside river within reach of the Seattle metro. Specifically, you will have to learn to work with the seasonal movements of the fish, the seasonal scouring of the rivers, etc. And you will need to learn to fish the Salt for Silvers and Cutts. If you want it easier or to learn faster, hire a guide and fish the Yak, or the Coast with Chris Bellows if he will have you. You will also do better if you walk in more, avoid the most populat places on weekends, become better with the map, stalk and hunt rather than plop and wait. Move. etc. And then there is always going very light and enjoying the small fish. They are mostly natives by the way. In terms of river tactics, focus more on improving your presentation, than acquiring every pattern imaginable. Dave

Response:

The problem you are facing is that the majority of the fish in those west side rivers are sea run and what you are most likely catching is steelhead or salmon smolts.  What you want to do is find them on their way back in. The Wynoochee river used to have a pretty good summer steelhead run as well as the Kalama.  The North Fork of the Stilliguamish is FF only and has summer runs as well, but it wasn’t much good when I lived over there. Starting in July you can catch sea run cutthroat in the lower section of the Stilly.  When I lived there the South Fork of the Stilly was stocked every summer, but I don’t know if they still do that.  The pink salmon come up the rivers every other year starting in August and those are a lot of fun on a fly rod.  This is the off year I think though.  If you have your heart set on trout, you might think about getting a float tube and fishing the lakes. There are some guys who can catch those sea-runs on dry flies (I was never one of them), but for the most part it’s below the surface.  Nothing like the eager cutts on dry flies that you are used to. I too grew up in North Idaho/Eastern Washington.  Moved to the Seattle area for fifteen years.  Got absolutely sick and tired of all the people, so I moved back.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brief description of situation: I grew up in Northern Idaho, used to fly fish with the folks. We’d go up to the Lochsa, Marble Creek, the St. Maries, etc… We’d fish for native cutthroat, barbless, catch & release. I now live in Seattle. Recently I’ve found myself with lots of free-time (read laid ff  ) and a desire to get out in the woods a little. Here’s my problem: A friend and I have gone out fly fishing a number of times and have been nothing but skunked. Not quite completely, I pulled in a lot of 3-4 inchers at the Skookumchuck but other than that we’ve had no luck on Skate creek, the Clear & Muddy forks of the Cowlitz, the Green, Snoqualmie MF and SF… We haven’t seen any surfacing or fish at any of these places other than the Skookumchuck. Now listen, we’re beginners and we know this and do not expect miracles… We also know that the waters of many rivers/streams/creeks are very high right now. But, what we’d really like to do is go somewhere where we stand a decent chance of catching (and releasing) a few nice trout, hell anything over 6 inches will seem gargantuan to us. Can anyone help us? I used to be a native trout snob… It seems they’re a little scarcer here than in Idaho… I know no good fishery needs more pressure here in Western Washington, and I know everyone likes to keep favorites secret… But it’d do my buddy and I world of good to get some positive reinforcement by just catching a few. Are there any currently fishable trout streams in Western Washington? Thanks a million to anyone who responds.

Response:

Brief description of situation: I grew up in Northern Idaho, used to fly fish with the folks. We’d go up to the Lochsa, Marble Creek, the St. Maries, etc… We’d fish for native cutthroat, barbless, catch & release. I now live in Seattle. Recently I’ve found myself with lots of free-time (read laid ff  ) and a desire to get out in the woods a little. Here’s my problem: A friend and I have gone out fly fishing a number of times and have been nothing but skunked. Not quite completely, I pulled in a lot of 3-4 inchers at the Skookumchuck but other than that we’ve had no luck on Skate creek, the Clear & Muddy forks of the Cowlitz, the Green, Snoqualmie MF and SF… We haven’t seen any surfacing or fish at any of these places other than the Skookumchuck. Now listen, we’re beginners and we know this and do not expect miracles… We also know that the waters of many rivers/streams/creeks are very high right now. But, what we’d really like to do is go somewhere where we stand a decent chance of catching (and releasing) a few nice trout, hell anything over 6 inches will seem gargantuan to us. Can anyone help us? I used to be a native trout snob… It seems they’re a little scarcer here than in Idaho… I know no good fishery needs more pressure here in Western Washington, and I know everyone likes to keep favorites secret… But it’d do my buddy and I world of good to get some positive reinforcement by just catching a few. Are there any currently fishable trout streams in Western Washington? Thanks a million to anyone who responds. begin 666 wink.gif M^00%/ “`"P““`#P`/`($“`#__P#W[_````".(0]F<0`%B(UIY:GA2 M#[0)0C6(I!.*HSINY%C&L=L]BJ?17<1=_NY$"UWH?HVS1ZG4;“"’Y 3;W5T(&UO<F4N`5534U!#350`.P“ ` end

Response:

Question:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them.

     Even better. These are high tech stainless hooks, so they aren’t dissolved by stomach acids. All the mule has to do is swallow them, then get      I was in with you on this one RW, but maybe we ought to think it a little more.       Charlie,       at least I hope they’re barbless

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

fire away, I’m on pins and needles  . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…..who wants to hear my idea?

Shoot.

Response:

we’re waiting       Handyman          Mike

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity.

Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Somewhere along the line of two or three hundred dollars and flight….for the airlines. Anybody in here close enough to that industry to let me bend their ear a bit?  I mean this marvelous idea came from discussing fly fishing, so this post is only kinda sorta off topic. There is no profit or gain for you or I. I just have a question. john

Response:

Question:

I believe their was a case a couple of years ago concerning an Angel Flight. One of their aircraft had broken down while on a mission in a remote area. One of the other Angel Flight volunteer pilots flew a mechanic in his own aircraft to repair the downed aircraft. The FAA gave this pilot a violation for flying a "commercial" flight without the proper ratings. Their reasoning was since the Mechanic was being paid to repair the other aircraft that made it a commercial flight operation by definition and that it did not fall under the Angel Flight exclusion even though the pilot received no compensation and donated his time and aircraft expenses. Apparently a charter service at their home field had complained to the FAA because they felt they should have flown and been paid for the repair flight. This situation is similar and would probably end the same way. If the FAA doesn’t have it brought to their attention, they most likely won’t come looking and won’t really care. But, if someone like an airport manager, FBO, or charter service complains that their losing revenue, then the results will usually be in favor of the commercial operation and against the individual. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that Rick Cremer once said there is no such thing, no such ruling, no record of action against a pilot for such a thing. Could you cite the reg requiring "commonality of purpose?" All I could find was that a private pilot could not receive compensation for hire, nor can he act as PIC for an aircraft flown for compensation for hire. You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Response:

What is the compensation that he or anyone else is getting? Who hired him? I still don’t understand the problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think a reading from the FAR’s might clarify my earlier statement. Sec. 61.113   Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. (b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if: (1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and (2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire. The (b)(1) is what I referred to, it’s not clear that if you do it for free it’s ok or not.  I know that I have had FSDO people tell me it’s not ok, but then I know they don’t always get it right either.  They told me that the flight time you accumulate while doing this counts as payment, who knows, I certainly don’t! A normal procedure when dealing with regulations is that if it’s not stated as being unlawful then that means it’s lawful.  However, with the FAA you never can tell, they can make their own rules and interpretations up on the fly, so I’d always play safe and not do it. However, it’s your certificate and if you have a beef with the fee’s, then don’t pay them and let the FBO do what they want.  You could always clear it with your local FSDO and see what they say, and as for Angel Flights and commercial license.  It’s like CAP from what I understand, there are wavers in place for this type of operation. Let us know what the FSDO says, and then if the FBO isn’t charging others I’d tell him to go screw himself, assuming FSDO says a private is all you need. — Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to me – consider this an official notice.

Response:

I still don’t understand what is particularly grey about this. What compensation is he or anyone else getting? And what does "commonality of purpose" have to do with it? Doesn’t the FAA have the burden of proof that a violation occurred? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you cite the reg requiring "commonality of purpose?" All I could find was that a private pilot could not receive compensation for hire, nor can he act as PIC for an aircraft flown for compensation for hire.<< It’s not a reg. As in many cases where the FAA takes administrative action the office of the Chief Councel makes a determination of what a reg means and what to do to a pilot. Especially in a grey area. This entire thread comes through here about every year. Searching the Google newsgroup archives has most of it. I have the case law copied somewhere. I just went through a bunch of old data, couldn’t find it but sure did clean out my desk. KG

Response:

Could you cite the reg requiring "commonality of purpose?" All I could

find was that a private pilot could not receive compensation for hire, nor can he act as PIC for an aircraft flown for compensation for hire.<< It’s not a reg. As in many cases where the FAA takes administrative action the office of the Chief Councel makes a determination of what a reg means and what to do to a pilot. Especially in a grey area. This entire thread comes through here about every year. Searching the Google newsgroup archives has most of it. I have the case law copied somewhere. I just went through a bunch of old data, couldn’t find it but sure did clean out my desk. KG

Response:

 It figures a guy with a cherokee 180 would get an F150.  Those are girls toys. When you step up to a Skylane you can get the F250 with the V10, I’ll never go back to the small trucks.

Pussy.  F-350 Triton V-10 pulling a 33ft double slide fifth wheel. Going from San Antonio to Oshkosh this July… Russell Kent

Response:

Anyone really care?  You are doing your friend a favor and if you feel like it is worth it, ask him to chip in by paying the landing fee. The Feds aren’t going to be there looking over your should just waiting to catch you allowing someone else to pay your landing fee. You know most won’t even care. If you were recieving compensation for doing this that would be one thing but you’re not. Even then they would have to catch you. Let him pay the landing fee. If the Feds want to take away your license for something they will, period. There won’t be any stopping them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for you all that was just brought to my attention yesterday. Here is the scenario. I have a friend that is the engineer for a local non profit Christian radio station. The station has several transmitters and repeaters located through Virginia and North Carolina. About once a month I have been flying him to different locations around the state to service and check transmitters. I volunteer my time, airplane and fuel so there is no charge to the station or my friend. Yesterday the local airport that I fly into to pick him up and drop him off, informed us when I went to pick him up that I would have to start paying a $10.00 landing fee when I pick him up and when we return. Or purchase a minimum or 20 gallons of fuel each time I land. Well the fuel is not possible since I am flying a Cessna 150, lest I chance not having much fuel when I arrive and it just does not burn that much during these trips anyway. Are there any rules that truly spell out when a landing fee is appropriate. The airport manager said my friend should pay the fees and not me, but seems like that would not be legal as it would imply that I am a commercial pilot which I am not. I tried to explain all of this to the manager, but she would not change her mind. Thanks, Frank

Response:

My 250 and your 350 have the same frame, of course the engines are the same also.  You just have more lug nuts to take off when you get a flat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It figures a guy with a cherokee 180 would get an F150.  Those are girls toys. When you step up to a Skylane you can get the F250 with the V10, I’ll never go back to the small trucks. Pussy.  F-350 Triton V-10 pulling a 33ft double slide fifth wheel. Going from San Antonio to Oshkosh this July… Russell Kent

Response:

I think a reading from the FAR’s might clarify my earlier statement. Sec. 61.113   Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft. (b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if: (1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and (2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire. The (b)(1) is what I referred to, it’s not clear that if you do it for free it’s ok or not.  I know that I have had FSDO people tell me it’s not ok, but then I know they don’t always get it right either.  They told me that the flight time you accumulate while doing this counts as payment, who knows, I certainly don’t! A normal procedure when dealing with regulations is that if it’s not stated as being unlawful then that means it’s lawful.  However, with the FAA you never can tell, they can make their own rules and interpretations up on the fly, so I’d always play safe and not do it. However, it’s your certificate and if you have a beef with the fee’s, then don’t pay them and let the FBO do what they want.  You could always clear it with your local FSDO and see what they say, and as for Angel Flights and commercial license.  It’s like CAP from what I understand, there are wavers in place for this type of operation. Let us know what the FSDO says, and then if the FBO isn’t charging others I’d tell him to go screw himself, assuming FSDO says a private is all you need. — Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to me – consider this an official notice.

Response:

You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Response:

You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Bullsquat. — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

I have a friend that is the engineer for a local non profit Christian radio station. The station has several transmitters and repeaters located through Virginia and North Carolina. About once a month I have been flying him to different locations around the state to service and check transmitters. I volunteer my time, airplane and fuel so there is no charge to the station or my friend.

What I would ask is this, are you going to this site anyways, in other words, if he wasn’t along for the ride, would you still go? If not, what you’re doing requires a commercial.  That’s why you are getting the landing fee charge.  It’s common around here for a landing fee only on commercial ops, private is usually free in my neck of the woods. — Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to me – consider this an official notice.

Response:

I agree with Jim….as I usually do, being a fellow Piper owner…anyway… I find this type of thread always amusing…you can’t do that because it is for ‘hire’ or in this case ‘no commonality of purpose’. With all due respect to Mr. Gruber and everyone else who feels that way…to quote my friend down south…BULLSQUAT! ALL my flights are for ME.  I fly for fun, not profit, I love to go different places.  So, your honor, when Mr. X asked me if I would take him to BFE, I said, sure, having never been there, I looked forward to going and checking it out.  I then decided with or without him, I was gonna explore BFE, and started to make my flight plans.  Just so happens since he was still wanting to go to BFE, and I was wanting to go someplace new, we both had a common purpose for the flight..we BOTH wanted to go to BFE equally….thus, I did not fly him to BFE, he came with me on yet another $100 hamburger run to someplace I had not yet been….BFE…and that your honor is my story….   Its true!  Bottom Line…..have fun and fly safe!!! Garrett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights. Bullsquat. — Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180

Response:

Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved. Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with it to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Response:

Frank, you are going to be beaten bloody by gnats, on this topic… First, you are in a somewhat grey area of the regs… You say you are donating your time and gas and I accept that… Others, who are hostile to you or your friend for whatever reason, will say you are performing a commercial flight operation, air taxi, without the ratings, etc… My position is, that as long as you are not being paid in any fashion other than your own satisfaction, it is your airplane to fly wherever and whenever, ala. Angel Flights, etc… <still a free country… If you choose to arrange your schedule with your friend so he can accomplish his own purposes, that is between you two and it is still a Part 91 flight… I have a friend that I routinely fly with… My plans usually are contingent upon his needs, when we leave, when we come back, etc..  The Professional Hand Wringers (PHW) are all over this board, and the minutae artists among them would try to make the case that if I wait even five minutes for him, it is now magically an air taxi operation and I’m in violation, yadda, yadda, yadda, all over the place… Now the PHW will be all over you, so you, like Caesars wife, have to be above reproach that what you are doing is your own personal satisfaction, that you are not using the trips to  build hours towards a commercial rating, that the friend is not sending you and the wife on a missionary trip to Guatemala <or where ever, etc…  nada, nothing, sparkling clean… Also, the friend better not be hiring an air taxi when you are not available… That would be tough to explain away if the FAA got into it… The toughest part is the airport… Obviously, it is common knowledge that you are flying him in the performance of HIS work… From the airports point of view that constitutes a commercial activity originating at the airport, whether you get paid or not… The analogy here, is an employee of a corporation may fly the corporate plane on company business, without his being a commercial pilot… That does not protect him/them from paying the commercial operations fee when that plane, with the corporate logo all over it, lands and taxi’s in to the fbo… From  my perspective, have the friend pay the fee, since it is his activity that is commercial, not yours, or make an arrangement that you will buy the 20 gallons of gas on some fixed schedule, or otherwise get an agreement with her… <I’m actually against anything other than his paying the fee, because money appearing out of your hand in any fashion makes YOU look like a commercial operation Or find another airport and keep your mouth(s) shut <probably the best solution… I would advise against making a major fight out of it with the airport manager… She has the ultimate weapon of filing a complaint with the FAA that you are running a clandestine air taxi… Not good – not fun – lotsa grief…. Cheers  …  Denny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for you all that was just brought to my attention yesterday. Here is the scenario. I have a friend that is the engineer for a local non profit Christian radio station. The station has several transmitters and repeaters located through Virginia and North Carolina. About once a month I have been flying him to different locations around the state to service and check transmitters. I volunteer my time, airplane and fuel so there is no charge to the station or my friend. Yesterday the local airport that I fly into to pick him up and drop him off, informed us when I went to pick him up that I would have to start paying a $10.00 landing fee when I pick him up and when we return. Or purchase a minimum or 20 gallons of fuel each time I land. Well the fuel is not possible since I am flying a Cessna 150, lest I chance not having much fuel when I arrive and it just does not burn that much during these trips anyway. Are there any rules that truly spell out when a landing fee is appropriate. The airport manager said my friend should pay the fees and not me, but seems like that would not be legal as it would imply that I am a commercial pilot which I am not. I tried to explain all of this to the manager, but she would not change her mind. Thanks, Frank

Response:

Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved.

Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with it to me.<< That’s right. He can’t do it. Unless the pilot is also along to fix the transmitters. He cannot just fly the other guy around for his convenience. Paid or not. Passengers on a Pt. 91 flight must meet a "commonality ruling."  The passenger may also NOT initiate the idea for the flight. Karl ATP LR-Jet CE-500 BE-300 15 yr Pt 135 Chief Pilot

Response:

I think you are stretching the interpretation a bit.  If a friend suggests that the fishing is good in MT, and we fly there in my plane, it is not a commercial flight.  To be a commercial flight the person/entity providing the flight must receive something in return. I would agree with your interpretation if they were splitting costs. Mike MU-2   Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved.   Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with   it to me.<<   That’s right. He can’t do it. Unless the pilot is also along to fix the transmitters. He cannot just fly the other guy around for his convenience. Paid or not.   Passengers on a Pt. 91 flight must meet a "commonality ruling."  The passenger may also NOT initiate the idea for the flight.   Karl   ATP   LR-Jet   CE-500   BE-300   15 yr Pt 135 Chief Pilot

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend that is the engineer for a local non profit Christian radio station. The station has several transmitters and repeaters located through Virginia and North Carolina. About once a month I have been flying him to different locations around the state to service and check transmitters. I volunteer my time, airplane and fuel so there is no charge to the station or my friend. What I would ask is this, are you going to this site anyways, in other words, if he wasn’t along for the ride, would you still go? If not, what you’re doing requires a commercial.  That’s why you are getting the landing fee charge.  It’s common around here for a landing fee only on commercial ops, private is usually free in my neck of the woods.

Bullsquat. If one could not fly someone for free when there was no commonality of purpose, Angel Flight could not exist. As long as he does not receive any compensation, he should be OK. Given the nature of the radio station (Christian non-profit), Frank may be entitled to deduct his out of pocket costs (or even perhaps the wet local rate for a C150) from his taxes. The ‘landing charge’ seems more like an FBO ramp fee to me. -Greg

Response:

 It figures a guy with a cherokee 180 would get an F150.  Those are girls toys. When you step up to a Skylane you can get the F250 with the V10, I’ll never go back to the small trucks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim,    I kinda wondered about you until I saw your signature line… even though I knew you flew a Cherokee. You proved yourself with the Ford F-150 rating though.  Carry on!

Response:

I believe that Rick Cremer once said there is no such thing, no such ruling, no record of action against a pilot for such a thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you cite the reg requiring "commonality of purpose?" All I could find was that a private pilot could not receive compensation for hire, nor can he act as PIC for an aircraft flown for compensation for hire. You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Response:

Jim,     I kinda wondered about you until I saw your signature line… even though I knew you flew a Cherokee. You proved yourself with the Ford F-150 rating though.  Carry on! — Joe Schneider Cherokee 8437R Advanced F-150 Supercab rating Numerous other spamcans not worth mentioning     Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved.     Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with     it to me.<<     That’s right. He can’t do it. Unless the pilot is also along to fix the transmitters. He cannot just fly the other guy around for his convenience. Paid or not.     Snip Karl’s nonsense…     Karl     ATP     LR-Jet     CE-500     BE-300     15 yr Pt 135 Chief Pilot     Ooooh!     —     Jim Fisher     Cherokee 140     Warrior II     Cherokee 180     Cessna 172 Once (Under Duress)     Ford F-150

Response:

The toughest part is the airport… Obviously, it is common knowledge that you are flying him in the performance of HIS work… From the airports point of view that constitutes a commercial activity originating at the airport, whether you get paid or not…

That may or may not be the case here. Frank did not say that they are charging the landing fee because it’s a commercial operation. Sounds to me like they have decided to charge fees for everybody. The only place "commercial" came into it was the proposal to have his friend pay the landing fee. And that is where it gets sticky. If he does so, he’s contributing to the cost of the flight and the "commonality of purpose" becomes an issue (as others have said). George Patterson,  N3162Q.

Response:

Could you cite the reg requiring "commonality of purpose?" All I could find was that a private pilot could not receive compensation for hire, nor can he act as PIC for an aircraft flown for compensation for hire. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t fly that type of flight without  commercial and135 certificates. It doesn’t matter if he pays you or not. There is no "commonality of purpose" for these flights.

Response:

  Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved.   Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with   it to me.<<   That’s right. He can’t do it. Unless the pilot is also along to fix the transmitters. He cannot just fly the other guy around for his convenience. Paid or not.   So another pilot and I are planning to fly to Mooselips, Nevada for a little fun.  He’s interested in brunettes.  I have a big thing (okay, maybe an average thing . . . okay, maybe . . . never mind) for blondes.     There’s no "commonality of purpose" since blondes and red heads are obviously from different planets.  So I have to foot the entire bill, right?   Okay, you have to go to a Troll convention in Californy.  I need to go there for a He-Man High Wing Hater convention.  I’m not sure that I’d wanna fly with you anyway but if we could, we couldn’t, right?   Passengers on a Pt. 91 flight must meet a "commonality ruling."  The passenger may also NOT initiate the idea for the flight.   So, can I kinda hint around at the idea until my friend gets the message about going?  Does this need to be in writing?  Will a handshake count as a "ruling" or do we have to slice our palms and share blood?   Incidentally, the word "commonality" is not mentioned in the FAR’s anywhere.  Yeah, I was suckered enough to look it up and am pretty sure I pselled it right.   Karl   ATP   LR-Jet   CE-500   BE-300   15 yr Pt 135 Chief Pilot   Ooooh!   —   Jim Fisher   Cherokee 140   Warrior II   Cherokee 180   Cessna 172 Once (Under Duress)   Ford F-150

Response:

That doesn’t agree with what I learned. Where in part 91 does it say that? Hunh?!  He’s flying a friend somewhere.  There’s no payment involved.

Why the need for commercial and 135?  Seems to have nothing to do with it to me.<< That’s right. He can’t do it. Unless the pilot is also along to fix the transmitters. He cannot just fly the other guy around for his convenience. Paid or not. Passengers on a Pt. 91 flight must meet a "commonality ruling."  The passenger may also NOT initiate the idea for the flight. Karl ATP LR-Jet CE-500 BE-300 15 yr Pt 135 Chief Pilot

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I have a question for you all that was just brought to my attention yesterday. Here is the scenario. I have a friend that is the engineer for a local non profit Christian radio station. The station has several transmitters and repeaters located through Virginia and North Carolina. About once a month I have been flying him to different locations around the state to service and check transmitters. I volunteer my time, airplane and fuel so there is no charge to the station or my friend. Yesterday the local airport that I fly into to pick him up and drop him off, informed us when I went to pick him up that I would have to start paying a $10.00 landing fee when I pick him up and when we return. Or purchase a minimum or 20 gallons of fuel each time I land. Well the fuel is not possible since I am flying a Cessna 150, lest I chance not having much fuel when I arrive and it just does not burn that much during these trips anyway. Are there any rules that truly spell out when a landing fee is appropriate. The airport manager said my friend should pay the fees and not me, but seems like that would not be legal as it would imply that I am a commercial pilot which I am not. I tried to explain all of this to the manager, but she would not change her mind. Thanks, Frank

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Question:

Al, you are inviting PETA here?  That is tantamount to inviting meowers here.  Sometimes you are amusing, but now you have gone too far, if this is your intent. —    Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.    Columbia, SC  Lake Murray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was at walmart last night and i didn’t see Steve (Stoner Lake) there. Walmart is quite the place for tackle. I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

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Bob writes: Al, you are inviting PETA here?  That is tantamount to inviting meowers here.  Sometimes you are amusing, but now you have gone too far, if this is your intent. —   Go Fishing.  And may your fish be as big as your tales.   Columbia, SC  Lake Murray

Bob If i feel like it I’ll invite a peta type who is also a jetskier. How does that grab you? Al

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I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc.

OK Al, here’s something that will help you out, I found it in an outdoor magazine.  The entire ad is as follows: "Bait Stick" is a stretchy, sticky glue that will attach live insects to a hook.  Wrap a match-head-sized glob on a hook and touch the glue to an ant, salmon egg…whatever.  The bug won’t die because the glue is non-toxic; instead, the insect will thrash and kick around.  Can you think of a better fish attractant?  The glue never dries out and continues to work underwater. Insects will even stay attached when being cast with a fly rod.  ($7.50; 734-676-7772) There, now quit worrying about finding a harness to fish your live bait from.  Call the phone number, part with $7.50 US and go feed some fish. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing

livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal The aversion has nothing to do with "sacrificing" livebait.  The aversion lies in the fact that often times while fishing livebait, a fish is gut hooked, rendering them unreleasable, or if you do, there is a strong possibility that the fish will die.  If you are paying attention to the overall attitude of the members of this newsgroup, you will notice that the majority of us would rather fish, catching and releasing them to enjoy another day.  I’m sure that most of us release in excess of 90% of the fish we catch.  It’s harder to do when the fish are gut hooked as happens more often when fishing livebait.  Also, many members feel that there is more skill involved in fooling a fish into striking an artificial than to feed livebait to a bass.  To many of us, it’s not the actual fish being caught, it’s the process of getting the strike in the first place that trips our triggers.  And if you don’t understand that, maybe you should take up golf. i was wondering what Peta types would think of it.

My thoughts on what PETA types would think of it???   Who cares??? —

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I was at walmart last night and i didn’t see Steve (Stoner Lake) there. Walmart is quite the place for tackle. I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

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lso is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

Hello Albert,   Have you ever had a mess of crickets get loose n your truck or had earthworms bust out in your fridge and crawl on the meatloaf or had a minnow jump out the bucket and wedge his way underneath the seat where he would stay and stink for Tommy Rilee

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Hello Albert,   Have you ever had a mess of crickets get loose n your truck or had earthworms bust out in your fridge and crawl on the meatloaf or had a minnow jump out the bucket and wedge his way underneath the seat where he would stay and stink for Tommy Rilee

Tom No i have never had that happen to me. I’ve heard the fridge thing before. Rotting minnows under a seat make a fishing boat smell like what it should smell like. I’m not afraid of the bait or getting my hands dirty. If your afraid of the bait how are you with the fish. It’s best to think like your quarry (fish) then you will have no qualms about the bait. Al

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Al, if you try and analyze what the PETA people think, it’ll drive you crazy, because they are crazy.  I’m not any proponent of hurting animals needlessly, and would never do it purposely.  I used to hunt (a lot when younger) and fished both then and now, and it doesn’t bother me to eat what I shot or caught, which meant having to dispatch them.  PETA nuts equate the equality of animals to people.  I don’t.  That includes live bait.  If you’re interested in live bait harnesses, you can probably find them on line at BPS or Cabela’s. Warren2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was at walmart last night and i didn’t see Steve (Stoner Lake) there. Walmart is quite the place for tackle. I was looking for live bait harnesses. Couldn’t find any. Probably because there isn’t a big market for them. Is there any instrucions anywhere how to make them for frogs, crickets, grasshoppers, hellgramights, crayfish etc. Also is part of the aversion to livebait the fact that you are sacrificing livebait for fishing. But fishing is hooking fish so what’s the big deal i was wondering what Peta types would think of it. Al

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Question:

Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town to see if they can’t treat the Nittany Lions the same way they did the Iowa Hawkeyes last weekend.  God, I hope not. For all the talk a few weeks ago regarding this game, a potential Autumn mini-clave here in central PA, and a few flames about OT posts– there are no plans for any fishing to actually taking place.  This is really too bad, because the weather is going to be perfect.  Not too cold, the leaves are past their prime but still beautiful, and the days are still reasonably long.  However, I have no idea how to catch trout on a fly in this weather… Ken, I tried and tried to find tickets between the 20s but to no avail.  I would really have enjoyed meeting and doing some Sunday fishing with you.  As luck would have it, none of the half-dozen folks who I *know* have tickets were willing to part with them or had already given them to somebody else–it is homecoming after all, even if the Nittany Lions are having a down year.  Ironically, my Aunt called my wife from work just this afternoon with an offer of two tickets to tomorrows game…  I have no idea if they are between the 20s, or even within sight of the field–hell, with a capacity of nearly 100,000 the term ‘nosebleed seats’ takes on some signifigance at Beaver Stadium. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State! Tom Before you buy.

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Well, it’s homecoming weekend here in Happy Valley, and those Fightin’ Illini are coming to town …

I’ll be watchin’ the game on ESPN2, your Nittany Lions are 3 point favorites according the official ROFF Latest Line and once again Wayno has managed to wheedle an unreal point spread for his Tar Heels. Eighteen and one half friggin’ points he gets against Clemson, it’s a gawdamn Chardonnay conspiracy I tell ya. I believe that there are still plans being made for a spring clave on Penns Creek here in central PA.  I look forward to meeting you, Ken, and lots of other ROFFians then.  Too bad it won’t be football season. We Are Penn State!

Likewise, Tom. Enjoy your weekend and don’t let a little thing like a homecoming loss spoil your fun. Oskee Wow Wow ! — Ken Fortenberry- sluggin’ Bud and hatin’ 11 a.m. kickoffs

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Question:

This subject has probably been done here before, but I’ll post this anyway. I do about 90% of my fishing in the surf or on jetties for Bluefish, Striped Bass and Weakfish.  The balance is for warmwater species, and when I’m feeling particularly masochistic, I might try for some trout which usually only laugh at me. Anyway, the question is: When is a fly a fly?   Does it have to represent or suggest some stage of an insect’s life?  I’d guess most of you would call the things I throw "Streamers"  or for the English, "Lures", but they are called "Flies" by everyone I know who uses them, even though some of them can be (and have been) cast by ultralight or even light action spinning rods. Here’s some more things to chew on:  What about materials?  Do they have to be natural or will synthetic be acceptable? How about epoxy, a material I love to use because it stands up to big teeth. So far as I am concerned, as long as the offering is too light to be cast by conventional or spinning rods that can reasonably be expected to subdue the fish you’re looking for but must be cast by line weight instead of lure weight, then it’s a fly, even if it is 14" long… — Tight Lines and Fair Winds! Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This subject has probably been done here before, but I’ll post this anyway. I do about 90% of my fishing in the surf or on jetties for Bluefish, Striped Bass and Weakfish.  The balance is for warmwater species, and when I’m feeling particularly masochistic, I might try for some trout which usually only laugh at me. Anyway, the question is: When is a fly a fly?   Does it have to represent or suggest some stage of an insect’s life?  I’d guess most of you would call the things I throw "Streamers"  or for the English, "Lures", but they are called "Flies" by everyone I know who uses them, even though some of them can be (and have been) cast by ultralight or even light action spinning rods. Here’s some more things to chew on:  What about materials?  Do they have to be natural or will synthetic be acceptable? How about epoxy, a material I love to use because it stands up to big teeth. So far as I am concerned, as long as the offering is too light to be cast by conventional or spinning rods that can reasonably be expected to subdue the fish you’re looking for but must be cast by line weight instead of lure weight, then it’s a fly, even if it is 14" long… — Tight Lines and Fair Winds! Ed

Ed, My understanding of the definition of a fly is a "lure" made from fur and feather, of couse synthetic materials are also allowed in conjunction with fur and feather. Darin

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Question:

Just moved into the state and looking for fly fishing clues around the Ogden area.  I would appreciate any assistance. Al

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Hi Al I’m sure there are clubs in your area. Just call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and get the information of the club nearest you. This is the time of the year when most clubs start their fall meeting. Good luck & … Tight Lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

In California one of our largest crops is rice and the biproduct of rice production consists of millions of mosquito fish and crawdads flushed out of the fields before harvest. Most of these die in the drainage ditches. Since most of the veggies eat rice just think how many animal lives they are responsible for. Harvesting other grains destroys bird nests and draining wetlands to grow these benign grains have destroyed the waterfowl flocks that use to blacken our skies with their flights (do you think that might have been another form of air polution  )   I wish they would enjoy their veggies and leave more good wholesome meat for the rest of us dewayne

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background.                                         -curious

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. [rest deleted]

Well… It *is* the truth, isn’t it ? TimW

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts!

Hmm, using my wonderous (almost if I could get it to work properly) new bit of software at home, I can browse the newsgroups whilst also being able to see the newsgroups list. The concept of people on ‘talk.politic.tibet’, ‘rec.animals.wildlife’, ‘rec.backcountry’ etc being ‘fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts’ just doesn’t really ring true. I think the best thing is to assume it is a troll and <snip — David Arno

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As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters.

This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters.  It is as simple as that.——Muskie

If animals had a voice, they would demand an apology from YOU.

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background.                                    -curious

Sounds kind of funny to me, maybe that doctor should face a review board, sounds like s/he doesn’t know what s/he is talking about.  If it were protein deficiency, that’s one thing, but "dying from lack of meat"….sounds like a diagnosis a 3-year old hamburger lover would make. Cynthia S. Smith http://www.sn.no/~csmith http://www.ifi.uio.no/~cynthias

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= =   As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life =   than hunters or meat eaters. = =   This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being =   killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced =   there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… =   it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity =   of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals =   (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the =   animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create =   urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in =   many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables.  When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel.   Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields  when its pickin’ time.  Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester!   ( the rest deleted)

200 acres?  Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)!  And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

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As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian.

As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  Rangeland contains a wide variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle).  So while it may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding animals. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country.

More so than was caused by the vast herds of bison and pronghorns in the past? Jessica and the zoo: Kosh (dog), Liza (horse), Nikki, Pixel, and Voodoo (Demon Cats from Hell), Flick (snake) and oh yeah, Keith (husband), who puts up with us all.   "Frogs are generally considered a pretty non-violent species. Unless, of course, you’re a fly".  -Kermit

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[brutally slaughtered text was here] As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  

Except in brownies. And I think the original poster has that down just pat. 8^) TimW

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<Hundreds of lines of crap deleted Excellent!  Muskie, meet Dr Jai.  Dr Jai, meet Muskie.  Why don’t the two of you bugger off to alt.fan.jai-maharaj and have a cosy chat? — I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.  I said I didn’t know.                                                 Mark Twain.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Doug Arendt) writes: = =   As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life =   than hunters or meat eaters. = =   This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being =   killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced =   there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… =   it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity =   of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals =   (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the =   animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create =   urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in =   many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? And the previous poster is ignoring that all those ‘pollutants’, urine, fecal matter, etc. are actually the main ingredients in organic fertilizer.  Guess they don’t eat organic produce, huh….. Besides, the WORST pollutant of our water ways is run-off from urban and suburban lawns. Sue — ======= Mike Mayer                     (414) 751-3557     Work: Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI                 Home:

In the west a real factor is the amount of water it takes to grow a pound of steak. Alfalfa and hay need LOTS of water. It is tremendously inefficient to grow our protein on the hoof.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

    —— Hmmmmmmmmm?—— Nice disertation but you’re boy Bob is the exception, not the rule. Americans have TOO MUCH MEAT in their diet and their Cholesterol Levels and Fat levels are beyond reason.  FAT INTAKE should not exceed 5% of the total calories and Cholesterol should be as close to zero as possible. George Gehrke

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Who cares this is a fishing forum….let’s talk FISHING…. (pass the salt and pepper pleaz, while eatting prime rib!)   Em*  

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[snip] BACK UP HERE and consider this.  "ALL life comes from the sun".  You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh.  At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

I hate to be a nit picking buttinsky but using words like "all" and "always" in a statement usually gets you in trouble.  This is no exception.  There have relatively recently been discovered ecosystems that are completely independent of the sun’s energy.  I’m referring to deep sea sulfur vents which exist in total darkness and sulfur reducing bacteria are the primary producers. Regarding cattle etc. being fed grass.  If the doubter ( I’ve lost track of who’s who on this thread) would like to come to Kansas, I’ll show them the largest remaining tract of tallgrass prairie ( and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world ) with all kinds of cattle happily munching the grass and making steak. — Brent L. Brock Kansas State University Dept. Agronomy, Range Science

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes

text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

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| Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! [chomp] |  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) | [..] | to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results | were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor Riiiiight! Heard of Craig Shergold?

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[...] : : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. : What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on : GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? : Now we await the long silence…..         Would that we had had to endure YOURS.  Be that as it may, however,         it’s clear that you have never been to a cattle-raising country         in which you actually engaged in observation.  The fact is that         most beef cattle are raised by grazing and, in the U. S. anyway,         only spend the last few weeks of life in a feedlot.  It is my         understanding that many other beef-producing countries dispense         with the feedlot and bring the animals to market directly from         the range (which is why their beef tends to be somewhat less         tender and somewhat more strongly flavored than the rather bland         stuff we’re used to in the U. S.).         How much time does the average beef cow spend in the feedlots,         Seetoh?         [With any luck, we'll now endure a long silence...] — – Rich Young (E-mail will be posted publicly as I see fit.  You have been warned.)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

BACK UP HERE and consider this.  "ALL life comes from the sun".  You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh.  At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

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: : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ?   What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables.  When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel.   Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields  when its pickin’ time.  Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! Animals dont know any better to nest and live somewhere else. They see a nice field to nest up in, not knowing the horrors that lie ahead. Think of all the shrews, all the insects, and all the animal life that is destroyed when old macdonald plants and harvests. It is overwelming. Now, I have seen many farms and met many farmers, and I havent seen ONE farmer without a shotgun, or a gun that he hunts birds and animals with. I have seen many farms that use barb wire fences to keep out deer so they dont eat the vegetable products growing on the farm. If you look at some of those fences, you can see deer hair and   skin stuck to the barbs, and sometimes deer will get stuck in those fences and ultimatley die a slow and horrible death, all twisted and mangled with broken necks. And, most farmers have 22’s they use to pot-shoot groundchucks and groundhogs, to keep them from eating the vegetable products they are growing. Not a pretty picture I am painting here is it veggies?  rabbits are always a nusiance on farms, and hence, many farmers utilize cats and dogs to comb the fields, hoping these pets will keep the rabbit population down. A farmers field yeilding vegetable products is not a animal friendly place as you can see! But wait, theres more!   Many farmers growing vegetable product also use pesticides. These pesticides either annoy or kill tens of thousands of different insect animal life. Not only do the pesticides used kill insect life, when the rains come down, these pestecides wash off into farm creeks, ponds, and lakes. Ever seen a river next to some large corn or lettuce farms? The fish life is pathetic at best. catfish with tumors, and where bass used to live, suckers take over because the runoff has killed the oxygen levels, making it almost impossible for fish to survive. So, even eating corn kills fish!  Pesticide runoff is a common problem where farmers grow vegetable product. It causes the death of thousands of fish, and virtually destroys these freshwater ecosystems, killing turtles, ducks, kingfishers, herons, cranes, mink, otter, racoon, muskrat and so on. I think your getting the picture. How does that guilt-free salad taste now?   and think of the cows, deer, fox, coyote,and other large game that drink form these pesticide creeks and lakes! All so you can have your guilt-free vegetarian life style! How about them veggies! As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters.  It is as simple as that.——Muskie  TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT?  ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office.  Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live".  Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented.  In another related study,  Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged    babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing.  Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard.  these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when   you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

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: As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.  Rangeland contains a wide : variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for : the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle).  So while it : may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding : the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding : animals. You are of course referring to buffaloes and wolves when you talk about animals not being killed to make room for cattle.  Then, there are the slash and burn tactics of Brazilian ranchers.  No animals being killed there, eh.  And let us not forget polluted water sources because of animal waste.  Since we are discussing animals, I won’t even go into how many people die early because of the garbage that is passed off on them as meat.                                  -Tom

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Don’t forget all the pollution created when shipping those yummy veggies cross country. todd — "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer or wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do." Izaak Walton

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200 acres?  Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)!  And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Not to mention all the corn and wheat that died so that we could live.  Don’t discount them;  they’re a sight more alive than rocks and minerals, after all.   Just think;  if redwood trees were a culinary treat,  them environmentalists and vegetarians would have a whole new battle to fight. Not that I distance myself from those particular causes;  I’m simply posing as the polemic. Cheers, Jen

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Question:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

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Was there in March and had a great trip. Flies for bonefish- The Gotcha or Crazy Charlie in light tan with no flash. Permit- the raghead crab in light tan or an epoxi crab in light tan, almost white. Clothing light cotton long sleeve shirts. I used a pair of hospital scrub pants for leg protection with Simms gravel guards and flats wading shoes. Your in for a treat. Good luck. Jack

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Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Casa Blanca is one of the best flats destinations I have been to.  The lodge, food, service, boats, guides and location are all first class.  You will catch many bones, some tarpon, possibly snook, barracuda and permit. You can use a 7 to 8 weight outfit for bones.  I would use a 9 to 10 weight for tarpon, barracudas and permit.  We like Mastery Bonesfish/Tarpon floating lines for fishing out of a boat in warm climates. We used #6 tan to brown Charlies and Snapping Shrimp for bones.  #2/4 Tan crabs for permit ( Rag Head, Turneffe and McCrab ).  Needle fish flies with wire for barracudas. Tarpon liked 2/0 Seahabits, red/white  and red/yellow Seaducers and  Stu Apte style tarpon flies in orange/grizzly, orange/yellow or Cockroach.  Snook seem to like red/yellow or cockroach colors. I would recommend doing some casting in the wind before you go to get in shape. If you are well equipped with tackle and clothing the guides will really take care of the rest. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

Plainly [we live] in a world which rebuffs those who make demands upon it but one which lavishes benevolence upon those who ask for nothing.  It is this paradox which leads me to suspect that the esthetic derivatives of fishing are inversely proportional to the complexity and refinement of the angler’s methodology.   -Harold Blaisdell, The Philosophical Fisherman

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I am a member of The Long Beach Casting Club in Long Beach,CA, chartered in 1926. We are a not-for-profit fly fishing club and members of the Western Casting Association and the American Casting Association. We are fortunate enough to have a clubhouse and casting pond facility at our disposal. We provide classes in beginning fly casting instruction, fly fishing techniques, rod building and fly tying. All classes are held on Tuesday evenings at 7:00 P.M. ALL CLASSES ARE FREE TO THE PUBLIC. Our monthly meetings are usually on the last Thursday of the month but can change according to the availabilty of the speaker. We have hosted speakers such as Lani Waller, Polly Rosborough and A.K. Best to name a few. Aside from the Monthly meetings and classes we are involved in target and distance casting with flys and plugs throughout the months May through February. We host club trips each month to destinations as close as Newport Bay and Bolsa Chica Beach, to places like the Babine River, the Green River and Yellowstone. We boast of a high number of FFF Certified Casting instructors, nationally recognized fly-tyers, past national casting champions and a solid core of knowledgable, friendly, giving anglers. Anyone interested in finding out more about The Long Beach Casting Club can contact me via E-mail. As a public service I will start posting current and upcoming events of the Long Beach Casting Club. Watch this space for "L.B.C.C. Events". Remember that ALL INSTRUCTION IS FREE. Guy Manning

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Attributed to me: "Great fishing beats average sex"

Hell, LOUSY fishing beats average sex! Of course, there’s always the quote that goes:  "A man’s gotta believe in something, I believe I’ll go fishing."

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I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?…

How about the Far Side cartoon with two guys in a boat on the lake with atomic mushroom clouds on the horizon. Guys looking at clouds with the quote "I’ll tell you what this means Norm… no size restrictions and screw the limits" Barry Welliver

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My current fav— "Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day.  Teach a man to fish and the damn fool will starve to  death before he comes in off the river!"  Author unknown Charley

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 Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?

. "I got a fly rod for my wife.  Not a bad trade huh?" . Timothy Raup Eagles Nest 1-401-353-3359

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My favorite quote by far comes from John Gerach’s book Dances With Trout: "If flyfishing is as good as sex, then I’m doing one of them wrong." For humor and entertaining reading about flyfishing, Gerach is very good.

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One of my favorites came from a friend I taught to bass bug last summer. "Flyfishing has to be the most elegant and expensive way to get skunked." JL 8-Wt Editor

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folk got some favourite quotes? All thoughts gratefully received. Might even be an occasion to persuade a few more of our folk to get on the net and chat.  

My father, an avid fly fisherman, says to my mother: "When one of us die, I’ll go fishing on Bornholm" Bornholm is a beautiful island with a lot of sea run salmon and trout. Another one, for which I don’t know the source goes something like this: "Those who say that fly fishing is better than sex, has no understanding of either" A very funny one. A danish tackle shop gets an order for a lot of vises for danes travelling to Saudi Arabia. A costumer stadning by says: "It must be for dry flies" Regards Martin Joergensen Copenhagen, Denmark

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a member of The Long Beach Casting Club in Long Beach,CA, chartered in 1926. We are a not-for-profit fly fishing club and members of the Western Casting Association and the American Casting Association. We are fortunate enough to have a clubhouse and casting pond facility at our disposal. We provide classes in beginning fly casting instruction, fly fishing techniques, rod building and fly tying. All classes are held on Tuesday evenings at 7:00 P.M. ALL CLASSES ARE FREE TO THE PUBLIC. Our monthly meetings are usually on the last Thursday of the month but can change according to the availabilty of the speaker. We have hosted speakers such as Lani Waller, Polly Rosborough and A.K. Best to name a few. Aside from the Monthly meetings and classes we are involved in target and distance casting with flys and plugs throughout the months May through February. We host club trips each month to destinations as close as Newport Bay and Bolsa Chica Beach, to places like the Babine River, the Green River and Yellowstone. We boast of a high number of FFF Certified Casting instructors, nationally recognized fly-tyers, past national casting champions and a solid core of knowledgable, friendly, giving anglers. Anyone interested in finding out more about The Long Beach Casting Club can contact me via E-mail. As a public service I will start posting current and upcoming events of the Long Beach Casting Club. Watch this space for "L.B.C.C. Events". Remember that ALL INSTRUCTION IS FREE. Guy Manning

Hi, pals of L.B.C.C         this is a good news, although I am in Taiwan here far away from         U.S.A and I never try fly-fishing, but I wish I can join …. csleou

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I may be late on this thread, but there is the old chesnut:         "Flyfishing isn’t a matter of life or death, its much more important than that"

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Hi, pals of L.B.C.C    this is a good news, although I am in Taiwan here far away from    U.S.A and I never try fly-fishing, but I wish I can join …. csleou

Of course, when making sarcastic comments about wasting bandwidth, you can only claim moral high ground if you make an effort to trim the article you’re quoting down, rather than forwarding a second copy of the ENTIRE article to the entire world. Also, if you don’t care about fly fishing, you really shouldn’t be posting here, as this is the FLY FISHING news group. Have a nice day. — Cray Computer Corporation    http://www.craycos.com/~ferguson/ferguson.html Colorado Springs, CO                                     Solely my opinions

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<< <Of course, when making sarcastic comments about wasting bandwidth, you tirade deleted for brevity… Calm down, I think he meant it.

Well, if he did, then I apologize. It’s so easy to read the wrong thing out of an ASCII text message, especially across international boundaries. It was a friday, and I’ve seen oh so many of these "gee, I can’t come to timbuktu for your class, because I live in outer slobovia" messages, that I instantly conclude it’s sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong. — Cray Computer Corporation    http://www.craycos.com/~ferguson/ferguson.html Colorado Springs, CO                                     Solely my opinions

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I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?

Attributed to me: "Great fishing beats average sex" — John Lawitzke Systems Engineer TechSmith Corporation

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I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?

Attributed to me: "Great fishing beats average sex" How ’bout this one…."Fishing is like sex, even when it’s bad it’s great"

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Tim Dudley: The cartoon book you’re referring to is by JOHN TROY! His work is great! With his permission his work will feature prominently in this thing I’m doing. Good to hear from you. And also that the chuckles are shared across the geography. Best. — David A. Calderisi

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 Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?

"The way to a man’s heart is through his fly" — Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry University of Missouri-Rolla

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I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you folk got some favourite quotes? no more wabbits." E. Fudd

I really like the quote at the beginning of "A River Runs Through It".  I don’t have the exact quote but it was something about all Gods diciples being flyfishermen and John was a dry flyfishermen. "My wife said if I went fishing one more time she’d leave me  Gawd, I’m gonna miss her" — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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OK Ok I just thought of one this is a Jason original…..   ( In your best Forest Gump voice and the Pecos Box is a local fishing area) " Life is like the Pecos Box ya never know what you going to catch….." jason — Jason J. Amaro               | Fight Racism!!!!!!!

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I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you folk got some favourite quotes?…

There’s a book of flyfishing cartoons by somebody who’s name escapes me, that has a great cartoon on the cover. It shows a lifeboat with five or six guys who look as if they’ve been in the boat for about a month – clothes are in rags, long hair, dirt, whiskers (no guide jokes here, please), in various states of starvation.  The boat is practically swamped, the waves are running about 12′ in gale force winds, and there’s a guy in the front fly fishing, with another guy hanging onto the fisherman by both legs, pleading with him:  "For God’s sake, man! Switch to wets!  They’ll never rise in seas like this!!" Tim

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: I’m doing a presentation for one of our local (well-established) : fly-fishing clubs next week. My topic is fly-fishing "humour". Any of you : folk got some favourite quotes? All thoughts gratefully received. Might : even be an occasion to persuade a few more of our folk to get on the net : and chat.   Pretty much anything Tim Walker says! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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