Question:

"the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty ." of course, this was a jetty nearby my home … I live in Monmouth County which is the the northern end of the Jersey coast. Avalon is down at the southern end. Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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Rob, Thanks for the info.  I think I’ll bring my 10×10 and my decievers and sea-bait flies and see if the stripers or blues are around down south.   Should I bring my waders?  My guess is yes. Thanks Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty ." of course, this was a jetty nearby my home … I live in Monmouth County which is the the northern end of the Jersey coast. Avalon is down at the southern end. Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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Chas, If you can fit them, I would bring waders.  The jetties in NJ are 2 types: rough rock jetties and "finished" jetties, ie. filled in with a lot of concrete. I’m not sure about the Avalon jetty having never been there, but as you might suspect another aspect of fishing the salt is wading out on bars to get at better parts of the channel, better casts due to wind, better drifts due to tides etc. Another point on jetties: if you saw my post about jetty jumping earlier, I would *definitely* recommend having korkers or studded boots for jetties.  Even if it’s a "finished" jetty, if you actually have to land a fish, it will require you climbing down the rocks.  Water temps will be in the 50’s by then, which is perfect. Up until this week, they were in the low 60’s. On bait fish, we have peanut bunker, spearing, bay anchovies all hanging around now, so a variety of deceivers and clousers  should be the ticket. Hope you do well, Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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I will be in Avalon NJ for a wedding November 9th.  We arrive the 7th and leave on the 11th.  We’ll be staying at a friend’s house on the beach.  I’m wondering if I should be bringing any tackle for fishing either from the beach, or in some inland waterway that’s nearby.  I’d probably not get more than a day’s fishing in, more likely a couple hours. What might I find, and should I be trying. Thanks Chas

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Chas, I’m not too up on Avalon specifically, but in general this is prime time for surf fishing in NJ. According to Jim Freda in Fishing the NJ coast,  if you drive to the north point of Avalon you’ll come to Townsends Inlet. You can fish the eighth street jetty and 2 smaller groins (jettys).  Apparently there is a sand bar that forms from this point out into the inlet and you can work the various structures, either the jettys or from the bar into the adjacent channel. When fish are around (which they should be), working the jettys can be a blast. I did catch a striper and 2 blues on deceivers this fall (so far) on a nearby jetty . Prime target for this time of year are stripers, and there may be some slammer blues around as well.  Many live line eels for the stripers, but if you go onto stripersurf.com or njstriper.com (or even reel-time.com) you may be able to get some specifics on flyfishing the area.  Both sites have a flyfishing message board. Of course, if you ask at local tackle shops, you may find that Tautog (blackfish) are around. These are fished strictly with bait, specifically green crabs, and are little bulldogs when caught.  It’s tough fishing for them as they’re always around structure, have very hard teeth with which they can suck a crab off a hook in a split second, but are very good eating…14" minimum size Enjoy, Rob — so much fishing, so little time — –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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Question:

like a good time was had by all…… –walt

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like a good time was had by all……

It was a great trip. A great Winter fishing fix. Lots of greasy food, liquor, short restless nights etc. that make a man my age regret his age the next morning. Lots of assorted grumblings about various bodily ailments throughout the group. Aging, ain’t it wonderful! There were quite a few people there on the weekend but on Monday and Tuesday, we essentially had the river to ourselves. Fishing was alittle slower with more smaller, 14 to 16 inch, fish than last year probably because of the murky water. Everybody did get into some good ones though. We did get some good dry fly action the last two days. That was a kick. I pointed out what I thought was a sweet young thing to Warren but he thought she was too chubby and passed on her, but I guess all those young things look good to a man my age. She even caught more fish than Warren. I did my best to hook him up by volunteering Warren to be a netting gilly for her when she landed her fish, but to no avail. Willi

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It was a great trip. A great Winter fishing fix. Lots of greasy food, liquor, short restless nights etc. that make a man my age regret his age the next morning. Lots of assorted grumblings about various bodily ailments throughout the group. Aging, ain’t it wonderful!

  Your age?  I thought Warren was older than you.  He certainly looked it in the mornings:)  I was a bit less "creaky" than normal.  The Ketoprofen 200 mg seemed to do the trick for my Osteoarthritis affected toes.  And, I felt great the next morning due to doctor mandated cutback in beer consumption.  Heck, I even brought beer back.  Hey, speaking of beer, I’m always getting crap about my "ol Mil but noticed that, after hiking up the hill, several of you guys drank it! Now that I’m back home, it’s back to water and diet Pepsi.  Bummer. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names… walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.    (snip)    nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

   Hungry and moody. I spent two hours yesterday afternoon on the river Willi and I call our home water. I was dazzled by the shimmering yellow aspen trees, and saddened by the feeling that another fine season of fishing is winding to a close. During my first hour on the water, I hooked 17 fine fish; every spot that looked like it may have EVER held a fish yielded one. About the time I started to feel like I was a pretty talented fisherman, the action ceased. I used every trick in the book to catch another five fish in two more hours. Sheesh.

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Petah Charles writes: It is a wonderful time of the year. Hopefully, Sir Louie and I will experience the same in a Grand River Autumn. Peter

What?  You aren’t guarantying fine weather?  Well, if we get rained out (muddy waters and all), Joanne, Joanne and I will sit around a bottle of single malt and shoot the breeze. (Looking forward to it) Dave

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i guess i should have been clearer….. a floatant or sinkant? …could care less about the brand names…

When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

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Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them [snip] . Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense.

I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me. Great post and you are a lucky man to live in such a beautiful place. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. [good stuff snipped]

Great post, rw. Thanks for the imagery. You gotta love the crisp weather of the mountains in fall. –Steve

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When fish have moved into shallow feeding areas and are feeding on small stuff ie midges, bwo’s etc. I use a floatant on the leader up until the last few inches. If there isn’t too much glare, you can follow the floating tippet and often see a flash from the fish taking the fly or see the tippet move with a take.  If there is too much glare, I’ll use a very small smear of florescent biostrike? (a putty like stuff)to give me something to follow. Takes are generally very subtle when fish are feeding on this small stuff. I use quill bodied flies quite a bit and if the quills are not coated with cement, they absorb water and sink well. Willi

gotcha….. I’ve tried floatant on my leaders and tippet for small midge fishing. I’m not sure if it helps or not but I do know that when I "mud" the tippet for emergers, very small nymphs, or wets I seem to get more takes. I also like to keep a tight line fishing this style with a little twitch every few seconds. Takes are generally sound with that style and for c/r the hook is usually in the mouth versus deeper in the throat or gills. I usually have a long leader/tippet, 12′ +, when fishing this way. report: for all you roffians headed’ this way, the delayed harvest rivers have been stocked for the fall/winter fishing. The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought. –Walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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The Watauga is running low, we can’t seem to shake this drought.

Supposed to rain this weekend up by Robbinsville (Forty effect I presume), maybe you’ll get some too. — Charlie…

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I drove over to your fine state a week ago for the first time, while I only fished the South Platte near Deckers and the eleven mile canyon, I managed to find a little solitude and hook some of your fine colorado fish with 20 and 22 BWO’s. I can’t tell you how great it was to be fishing again and while I’m sure there are better streams in CO than the So. Platte but for two days it was heaven to me.

The Platte is/was a fine river. It holds many good fish. However, with its proximity to Denver and Colorado Springs it is the heaviest fished river in the state. The section around Deckers has the reputation of being a very difficult river, especially for people fishing it the first time. Congrats on having success. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry. Autumn’s soft, midday light that has lost its summer intensity, allows good fish to move into very shallow pockets of water with just enough current to hide them.  Large fish wait in water barely deep enough to cover their backs to feed most efficiently on the small emerging bugs. A careless wade sends the fish shooting back into the pools leaving wakes of water in their path. A tiny fly on a long, light, greased leader is the key. A cast several feet above the lie lets the fly sink just enough to interest the fish. No weight, no indicator. Just a flash in the shallow water or the nudge of the floating tippet. Takes are hard and confident and the pressure from the strike sends the fish airborn. Fights seem a bit more determined and the colors a bit more intense. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

    (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.     (snip)     nice little vignette, troutmeister. wayno

very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? walt — Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Willie wrote;Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

This sounds like a fairy tale to me. I don’t think there will be an Autum in Texas this year…mabye in January. It is still in the mid 90’s and I have a hard time calling that Autumn. Big Dale

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very nice indeed. the conditions you describe are mirrored here in the NC mountains at this time. one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with?

With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know. Willi

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Autumn is my favorite time of the year in Colorado. The leaves are turning, the nights are cool but the days are warm, the tourists are gone, the rivers are low, clear and cool, and the fish are hungry.

That sounds like the Stanley area, Willi, but our Autumn probably comes earlier than yours. The good Autumn fishing here is at about 7000 feet. I like those warm days following a sub-freezing night when the fishing doesn’t start picking up until 11:00am, and then it’s over by 4:00pm. There are just enough hoppers to keep fish looking at the surface, but the serious fish-catching is done with common nymphs — the perfect setup for a "hopper/dropper" rig. The water is skinny and the fish are concentrated in holes. This is easy fishing, once you get there. I can roll out of bed late, build a fire, make coffee and bacon and eggs, and take my time planning the trip. Then I can come home in daylight. Perfect. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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one question willi, what do you grease the tippet with? With the atmosphere around here lately, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to know.

Red Mucilin works a lot better than G*** for greasing tippets. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Not sure Ken, but I believe you may have misinterpreted the question. Your reply suggests possible problems on returning to the lodge AFTER fishing.  I think a closer reading will reveal that Gavin was wondering why bait fishing is not allowed ON the buffet line.  A different kettle of fish altogether IMHO. Wolfgang um……are you gonna eat that?

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don’t see too many beer cans, corn cans, Styrofoam worm containers, empty cigarette packs, soiled undershorts, motor oil bottles, cheeze-it wrappers and thrice used condoms left behind by fly fishermen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin Most fly-fisherman that I know have chosen to fly-fish over bait- fishing due to the challenge and enjoyment it brings to them.  Being alone or almost alone in the wild and walking up or down the river where they can feel as though they are part of the wild experience is a major part for many fly-fisherman.  Locations that cater to that type of experience often have a lot in stake in keeping the experience as pristine and pure as they can as well as keeping the fish as large and healthy as possible. A couple of states have asked their local anglers to help them with how to stock their local waters.  Would they rather catch: 1) a few large fish, or 2) many small fish.  Each state’s end result was "a few large fish."  This is especially true with fly-fisherman.  Fly-fisherman go to the lodges for the pristine experience, education, and to catch "The Big One." The problem with bait-fishing is that it spoils the experience and fishing conditions for the fly-fisherman.  Live bait, like worms, can contaminate the water with diseases, like whirling disease, which kills or harms the fish.  Treble hooks used for Power Bait are often swallowed and can not be removed without harming the fish.  Bait- fisherman fishing in groups allow their poles to rest against something while they wait for a fish to take-the-bait as they talk, make jokes, drink, and generally pas the time.  This is not the experience most fly- fisherman want to see as they come around a bend in the river. In locations that I fish where bait-fishing is also allowed, I cringe every time I see things like this.  I move through the area as fast as I can until I get to another pristine location which will always be farther than their voice travels.  I often find litter and discarded fishing-gear in locations that bait-fishermen were.  This also destroys the experience for me and generally makes my blood boil. Because of fly-fisherman like me that spend money to keep private locations like this alive, they have normally restrict the fishing to fly-fishing with C&R restrictions. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                            quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly-fishing. . . . When I want to go fly-fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only.  I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Since you are only 16 and the only one in your family that enjoys fly- fishing, just go where your mom and dad take you. BTW, lodges will be different according to what the people in a given area want.  I have no idea what lodges are like in South Africa.  Since you own a fly-shop in South Africa, why don’t you tell us why the serious lodges are fly-fising only.  You are the South Africa Pro. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman

Ah, the "I’m OK, You’re OK" psychology.  Well here we do things a little differently.  Sometimes it’s "I’m OK, You’re not OK", and sometimes it’s "I’m not OK, You’re not OK", but definitely "You’re not OK".  :-) Regards, Jeff

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| Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly | | I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman | in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman | | Ah, the "I’m OK, You’re OK" psychology.  Well here we do things a little | differently.  Sometimes it’s "I’m OK, You’re not OK", and sometimes it’s "I’m | not OK, You’re not OK", but definitely "You’re not OK".  :-) | | Regards, | Jeff Im not joking there are many people around here who look up to me mostly youngsters though, you see fly fishing is also relatively new around here I was probably the youngest fly fisherman around my area I started about 6 years ago aged 10 and was probably only one of a handful of people who could actually do it properly I went to a number of clinics so you see a lot of people look up to me because like I said fly fishing is new and I have caught species of fish that many fly fisherman have never heard of before in there life and I am still "EXPERIMENTING" with our other local fish especially carp, catfish etc. with very limited success so I try fly fishing when ever and where ever I can otherwise I go back to bait/spin fishing practice makes perfect and the best teacher around here are the fish hope I never upset any one just airing my views tight lines Gavin

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I started about 6 years ago aged 10

Are you only 16 years old?  Just a lad.  All the power to you boy. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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told him what to buy at the local tackle store so he could fish nymphs with his spinning rod. Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.)

Sounds like there was one there you might be able to borrow once in a while. I suspect you both left with a grin on the face. Big Dale

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Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.)

    right you are, rw; i’ve had two like that, and it’s tough to beat the memories.     …on the other hand, i also had a receptionist back in the mid 70’s who just *loved* to watch; on balance, i’d say it’s too close to call. wayno

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 At 50 I tend to envy the lad.Ah for the years I spent at war to be returned to me so that all my memories were of the fish I lost and the fish I landed. Gavin you are in for some good memories by the time you reach 50. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  RVN 69-73  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started about 6 years ago aged 10 Are you only 16 years old?  Just a lad.  All the power to you boy. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also forgot to mention that I used to do spinfishing and baitfishing in south africa for the local species of fish (carp catfish bream etc.) these fish are almost impossible to catch on fly because dams are usually 30 meters deep (probably more) they were murky etc so I used to spin and bait fish as well(so fly fishing is not an option)  and disagree with what all you said as every one here uses a type of high protein bait made of dog food to catch trout I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman regards and tight lines Gavin

I think Lefty Kreh would differ with you.  I’ve seen a t.v. show where he was fly-fishing for carp in what looked like very deep water. Additionally, I’ve caught carp on a fly.  I’ve also seen others fly- fish for catfish.  My friend is in the Bahamas is right now fly-fishing for tuna, shark, and marlin.  He chose to do that instead of coming to the clave with me.  You would be surprised what you can fish for with a fly. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

______ Sir Gavin?  I you sure you’re not a trolling fisherman.  Where did  you park your boat? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

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After I caught my six trout and a couple of nice whitefish I let the kid fish with my rod, which was rigged with a bead-head pheasant tail and hare’s ear tandem and a foam indicator.

Ah… the joys of fucking nymph fishing!! Regards, Jeff

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I also forgot to mention that I used to do spinfishing and baitfishing in south africa for the local species of fish (carp catfish bream etc.) these fish are almost impossible to catch on fly because dams are usually 30 meters deep (probably more) they were murky etc so I used to spin and bait fish as well(so fly fishing is not an option)  and disagree with what all you said as every one here uses a type of high protein bait made of dog food to catch trout I know how I am going on here I think I am a well respected fly fisherman in my area and I respect all other fly fisherman regards and tight lines Gavin

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That kid will never forget that day!  Cheers.  :-) Natty

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don’t see too many beer cans, corn cans, Styrofoam worm containers, empty cigarette packs, soiled undershorts, motor oil bottles, cheeze-it wrappers and thrice used condoms left behind by fly fishermen

On my recently reported trip to the Stanislaus, we saw nothing but spin fishermen.  I won’t say that there was no trash, but my brother and I were able to pick up *every* piece of trash we saw, and take it back to the dumpster without a sack.  That means there wasn’t much trash. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

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… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places

Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Yuck. — Ken Fortenberry- and I hear bait fishermen smell bad too

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… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ? Yuck.

What Ken’s tactfully saying is that they’ve seen your family and don’t want them to come. Joe F.

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Bait fishing tends to result in gut hooked fish. This is not ideal for C&R. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

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What Ken’s tactfully saying is that they’ve seen your family and don’t want them to come. Joe F.

Seen ‘em myself.  Never did like ‘em, their feet don’t match. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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… I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places Can you imagine how disgusting it would be to have someone who’s been handling worms all day in front of you in the buffet line ? Pawing over the prawns, fondling the foie gras, sticking his worm drenched digits in YOUR caviar ?

Not sure Ken, but I believe you may have misinterpreted the question. Your reply suggests possible problems on returning to the lodge AFTER fishing.  I think a closer reading will reveal that Gavin was wondering why bait fishing is not allowed ON the buffet line.  A different kettle of fish altogether IMHO. Wolfgang um……are you gonna eat that?

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I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Watch one of the bobber-bubbas fish for trout on a stream.  They’ll plop down beside a hole with their cooler and a lawn chair and wait for a trout to swim by and dunk their bobber.  They would just as soon plop down beside the hole you’re fishing in and seriously think they have the same opportunity to catch a trout out of that hole as you do; which by the time they get settled is probably true.  Damndest thing I ever saw involving a bobber-bubba fishing for trout was a pickup beside a trout stream, bubba in a lawn chair killing worms, his wife squatting over a 2 burner Coleman stove and a frying pan on the truck’s tailgate waiting for lunch. Don’t really understand it, Bluegill are better eating, custom made for bobber-bubbas, and a bobber-bubba and a fly fisherman can work the same pond with equal results for the frying pan.  The fly fisherman will just have more fun.  It’s also much more fun to watch a kid catch a bunch of Bluegill on a cane pole with a bobber than watch a kid not catch a trout on a cane fly rod. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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I am the only person in my family who enjoys fly fishing every one thinks it is too much hard work so just do normal bait fishing instead and when I want to go fly fishing it is usually to some serious lodge with fly fishing only I want to know why bait fishing is not allowed in these places thanks Gavin

Most fly-fisherman that I know have chosen to fly-fish over bait- fishing due to the challenge and enjoyment it brings to them.  Being alone or almost alone in the wild and walking up or down the river where they can feel as though they are part of the wild experience is a major part for many fly-fisherman.  Locations that cater to that type of experience often have a lot in stake in keeping the experience as pristine and pure as they can as well as keeping the fish as large and healthy as possible. A couple of states have asked their local anglers to help them with how to stock their local waters.  Would they rather catch: 1) a few large fish, or 2) many small fish.  Each state’s end result was "a few large fish."  This is especially true with fly-fisherman.  Fly-fisherman go to the lodges for the pristine experience, education, and to catch "The Big One." The problem with bait-fishing is that it spoils the experience and fishing conditions for the fly-fisherman.  Live bait, like worms, can contaminate the water with diseases, like whirling disease, which kills or harms the fish.  Treble hooks used for Power Bait are often swallowed and can not be removed without harming the fish.  Bait- fisherman fishing in groups allow their poles to rest against something while they wait for a fish to take-the-bait as they talk, make jokes, drink, and generally pas the time.  This is not the experience most fly- fisherman want to see as they come around a bend in the river. In locations that I fish where bait-fishing is also allowed, I cringe every time I see things like this.  I move through the area as fast as I can until I get to another pristine location which will always be farther than their voice travels.  I often find litter and discarded fishing-gear in locations that bait-fishermen were.  This also destroys the experience for me and generally makes my blood boil. Because of fly-fisherman like me that spend money to keep private locations like this alive, they have normally restrict the fishing to fly-fishing with C&R restrictions. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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There’s a place in Stanley, right next to a hotel, that is heavily stocked with "catchable" (i.e., barely legal size) trout. I sometimes go there to catch six fish for dinner, to experiment with techniques, or just to pass the time. The other day there were some kids fishing there (staying at the hotel, I believe). They were using those weird colored salmon eggs that come in jars, and they were catching absolutely nothing. When I started fishing with my fly rod this one boy of about 12 years was fascinated, and when I started catching fish he was transfixed. These fish are so easy it’s ridiculous. They’ll eat various nymphs like popcorn. After I caught my six trout and a couple of nice whitefish I let the kid fish with my rod, which was rigged with a bead-head pheasant tail and hare’s ear tandem and a foam indicator. Pretty soon he got the knack of chucking the rig out into the main current and mending the line to get a more-or-less dead drift. After pulling off a couple of fish with a too vigorous hook set, he caught two fish in about 10 minutes, and I think I made a flyfishing convert. I told him what to buy at the local tackle store so he could fish nymphs with his spinning rod. Geez, I wish I had a son who liked to fish. (Forget about, Warren — I mean a sub-teenage boy.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

"John Beowulf" wrote… Well, I don’t know about that but last Sunday this kid was fishing in San Francisco Bay and caught, well uh, (gross alert) a human skull. Maby its the old bad boy of the teamsters!

What did he catch it on? –Steve

Response:

I think he was just dead weight, at the end of the line. PatK I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

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Response:

Joe Fleischman writes: I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed.

Uhuh.  He  was found under Tammy Fay Baker’s make-up! Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave LaCourse wrote Joe Fleischman writes: I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed. Uhuh.  He  was found under Tammy Fay Baker’s make-up!

The worst part is…he was buried alive! —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Peter Charles wrote I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased** but I’m sure he ended up as chum.

Ironic.  He started out as king.  I knew a morphological change occurred in the life cycle, but I didn’t think a species change was part of the deal. —                                                       -dnc-

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Nope.. concrete waders. That’s where Orvis got the idea for their ‘Bulletproof’ wader series. Herman  Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975. wet wading? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Well, I don’t know about that but last Sunday this kid was fishing in San Francisco Bay and caught, well uh, (gross alert) a human skull.  Maby its the old bad boy of the teamsters! -John

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Response:

Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

No. Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975. — Charlie…

Response:

No. Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975.

I think he’s in my son’s room under his bed. Joe F.

Response:

 Hoffa was pardoned by Nixon in 1971 and disappeared in 1975.

wet wading? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

Response:

I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought using chum while fly fishing was considered unsporting??:) Lloyd Heilbrunn

Response:

I’m not too sure Hoffa had any *chums*! — Opie     **Psychic To The Recently Deceased**

but I’m sure he ended up as chum. Peter

Response:

I know this is away off topic but—.Saw am movie last night about the life of Jimmy Hoffa.Now I am not a student of American history north or south but I was alive and kicking during the Hoffa years.Am I correct in thinking that Hoffa was dead long before Nixon became president so could not have been pardoned by aforementioned president?

Was that the movie starring Jack Nicholson as Jimmy Hoffa? Excellent. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

/daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

Much?  Oh Lordy!  Let’s go for another walk on Upper!    :)

Response:

How about magazines for the younger folks here?

It took me a minute to get that one  There are some great articles in there: – Easy access ramps on wilderness rivers near you! – Geritol makes a great leader greaser – Clip-on flies: do they spook fish? – The "granny" knot – new research shows it’s not as weak as you thought – The new generation automatic reels – are they strong enough to reel in fish over 12" for you? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733

How about magazines for the younger folks here? /daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

Response:

Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733

Response:

OK, got my bid in….one of the photos showed a walker with built in rod holder…..hot damn!! Frank (crip) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 80 Fly Fishing Magazines on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331586733 How about magazines for the younger folks here? /daytripper (*feeling* Over 80 but actually much younger)

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Question:

Trouble-having problem castin size 6 flies w/ 4 wt. rod. If I use 2x tippet will that help or do I need to back up to a 7wt. rod? Like to catch 1/2 pounders on a light rod.

Response:

Rook2 writes:

<<Trouble-having problem castin size 6 flies w/ 4 wt. rod. If I use 2x tippet will that help or do I need to back up to a 7wt. rod? Like to catch 1/2 pounders on a light rod. A 2X leader/tippet is good for #6 – 10 flies.  A 1X is good for #4 – 8.  You might try teither one; however, you should have little problem casting #6s with a 4 wt. as long as they are not heavily weighted.  Are we talking streamers here, or nymphs? Wooly Buggers?  Trout, bass?  A bigger rod would help (5 or 6wt), but I do not think that is your problem. Dave LaCourse

Response:

bead head brindlebugs for steelhead, thanks for reply. Sounds like heavier tppet should wor even on 4 wt. rod

Response:

Use a heavier leader but consider heavier leaders won’t sink as fast or flow w/ the current as well. I will sometimes use a real heavy leader w/ lighter tippet it is harder to cast but better then too light a leader butt. The butt sections of difffernt size leaders and different brands make a difference. Ones may have a 0.24 or 0.20 (I think thats right)  pick out the brand w/ the heavier butt a 3x from one company or style of leader may differ from 3x. of another brand, read the back of the package, also some tippets may be too limp or to stiff like saltwater tippet.  

Response:

On some occasions, a leader with a thinner butt diameter is better.  When fishing downstream, the thinner leader allows your fly to stay downstream of the leader and fly line. tyler

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a heavier leader but consider heavier leaders won’t sink as fast or flow w/ the current as well. I will sometimes use a real heavy leader w/ lighter tippet it is harder to cast but better then too light a leader butt. The butt sections of difffernt size leaders and different brands make a difference. Ones may have a 0.24 or 0.20 (I think thats right)  pick out the brand w/ the heavier butt a 3x from one company or style of leader may differ from 3x. of another brand, read the back of the package, also some tippets may be too limp or to stiff like saltwater tippet.

Response:

Question:

Try Sunset crater the area if really nice, and if I’m not mistaken… It is where some of the Lunar Apollo astronauts trained for a while back in the 60’s. Not too far from Flagstaff either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

Response:

I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example.

At Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links (http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html) you will find 15 web sites listed for Arizona and 11 for Utah – each with trip reports and trail descriptions! Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

–      Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links   http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html

Response:

I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

Response:

12 Sept 97 To hike and include fly fishing, try the Lake Poweel area with a day the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is always spectacular. Normally, I’d say spend a few days in Supai, 8 miles into the Canyon with the only Native Americans still living in the Canyon.But flash flooding makes that a bad idea just now. You might give some thought to hiking in Bryce Canyon, Zion (though they might be having flash floods too), and through the Rim country in Sedona. Lots of variety and weather conditions. Usually this would be a great time of year to come here, but the very late monsoons have made every afternoon a potential thunderstorm nightmare. In fact, yesterday, NE of Flagstaff by 60 miles there were 4 funnel clouds spotted while 2 hikers were caught in a flash flood in the Canyon. Perhaps another month will bring some sanity to our weather. Have a great time. If you need books, maps, or equipment let us know. // – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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Response:

Question:

Planning a potential:-) two-week trip to Rockies in..?Feb-March.. sometime…..for skiing.  Are there any relatively shallow waters fishable then…or when….  Including some lightline flyfishing   would definitely add a lot to the trip.  Although judging from the springtime entries…to beat the spring *thaw*:-) seems to be anytime before late june!..?.. out there. feel free to email…. tight_lines, steve d.

Response:

Planning a potential:-) two-week trip to Rockies in..?Feb-March.. sometime…..for skiing.  Are there any relatively shallow waters fishable then…or when….  Including some lightline flyfishing would definitely add a lot to the trip.  Although judging from the springtime entries…to beat the spring *thaw*:-) seems to be anytime before late june!..?.. out there. feel free to email…. tight_lines, steve d.

Hi Steve, You can experience great skiing at Big Sky or Bridger Bowl near Bozeman.  The fishing that time of year on Nelson’s spring creek (not sure about the outcome with Depuys/Armstrongs yet), the Beaver Head, and the Big Horn are all great.  Mid day midges, blue winged olives, etc. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Are there any members out there? I tried to go to the meeting last night, but the paper gave extremly bad directions. Jack Stewart was the guest. I am interested in becoming a member, any info is helpful. Thanks Mike

Response:

Are there any members out there? I tried to go to the meeting last night, but the paper gave extremly bad directions. Jack Stewart was the guest. I am interested in becoming a member, any info is helpful. Thanks Mike

Mike, I belonged to their group for almost two years when I lived in Connecticut.  I wrote a nasty letter to them and cancelled my membership.  I too received bad directions from them and got lost (and it was, I bet, a much longer drive than yours was!).  I also only received a 2 or 3  flyers/updates from them and also only 3 or so of their magazines.  I also had sent them many letters, never ever getting a response.  Same went for phone calls never being returned. I also told their representitives at a couple of fly shows how unhappy I was with their lack of communication and concern they have towards their members.  As I said, I finally quit having any relationship with them.  They came across to me as the snobbiest flyfishing group in existence (and there are others besides them out there!!). Just thought I’d give you my 2 cents worth and a warning, I suppose. Take care, Paul.

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