Question:

Hey, maybe when he gets it through his head that a batch of re-tread rightwingnuts won’t cut it, he will get serious and nominate some more patriots like Powell and some real Republicans.

I thought it was pretty funny when he nominated a guy for Secretary of Energy who last year voted to abolish the Department of Energy. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I was talking about Chavez, Dave, *not* Gail Norton. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well anyway, It is sad when a person with just the hint of lesbian White Slavery in her background can’t serve in the Cabinet.

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Men laugh: weenies snicker.

Dave, can you recommend a good urologist? I ask because although I have no trouble laughing, I have yet to hear my weenie snicker. I *have* had a few people snicker at my weenie, but I suspect that’s not what you mean. –Steve

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Zimbo? You mean your weenie doesn’t snicker? Impossible! All weenies snicker man! You don’t need a urologist, you may need a Dick Doc. Here’s an anthropomorphic home procedure that will tell you for sure. First find an older, spring operated time piece. Next, take it into a quiet room and put your "thang" on the time piece. Then listen. Dave "Lookit that man mommy, he has 5 separate toes on each foot! Don’t stare Honey, its not polite. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Men laugh: weenies snicker. Dave, can you recommend a good urologist? I ask because although I have no trouble laughing, I have yet to hear my weenie snicker. I *have* had a few people snicker at my weenie, but I suspect that’s not what you mean. –Steve

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Pretty photo.  You guys have some privacy around your spread. Nice! I couldn’t see anything, footprints or wheel tracks, which I suppose makes your point. I think dry is the key here.

I did a backpacking trip in the Superstition Wilderness, east of Phoenix, a couple of years ago Willi.  Death Valley may be drier, but I suspect that few other places in the U.S. are.  This wilderness area is inside the Tonto National Forest (if memory serves) and is administered by the USFS.  There is a network of trails throughout the area; an ever changing network.  In six days on the trail I passed numerous signs indicating that various segments of trail were "CLOSED!".  The closures are an effort to allow areas to recover from the damage (sometimes very severe) done by hikers and or equestrians, depending on the usage allowed on given segments.  No ATVS.  Just feet. Anyone who is interested shouldn’t have a hard time finding loads of material on areas that are closed to foot traffic for……guess what reason. Wolfgang

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It’s in times like this I wonder why you ever use the phrase "shiv a git"…

Did I ever tell you about that time in the pen down in Atlanta when I arrived on the scene about four seconds after a git got shivved?  Stuck once, right through the heart….big guy too, loads of blood.  Sort of a lovers spat kinda thingy.  In retrospect it reminds me a lot of here. No wonder I love this place!     Wolfgang no gangsta my own self, but seen plenty

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… it depends on how you define "negative."  As many have pointed out, both horses’ hooves and human feet/shoes leave "evidence" ranging from a mere rapidly disappearing footprint to permanent "damage."  The only way to prevent this "negative" impact is ban everything and everybody, period, and that hardly seems a solution.

Wheeled devices are often banned because they cause long linear paths of compacted soil which can create runoff problems and/or slow natural biological processes that pass through the soil layer. Human feet and horse hooves by contrast create disconncted compacted spots (although in the extreme, heavy human traffic is nearly as bad). Thomas Gilg

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Dean Men laugh: weenies snicker. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNICKER

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Dave, tell me you didn’t snicker just a bit over Chavez’s withdrawal today.  Or was that a gleeful guffaw? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dean Men laugh: weenies snicker. Dave

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JR No, it just saddens me (SNICKER) when someone like Ms Chavez, selected by a President select, who is known by his handlers as a good judge of managerial talent, cannot bring her special talents for uniting the country around issues of race . . . Oh? You mean she is known for baiting minorities? Well lets pass on that. Well, you know, a person well known for her understanding of the Hispanic-American situation . . . OH? you mean she can’t actually speak or understand Spanish?  Is that why she "didn’t know" that the Guatemalan lady was an illegal? Oh well lets move on. (SNICKER) I mean she had the lady living in her house as an act of kindness, you can understand that? Oh, you mean its kinda like the Barney Frank thing? No! I find that hard to believe! (SNICKER) Well anyway, It is sad when a person with just the hint of lesbian White Slavery in her background can’t serve in the Cabinet. A real shame, considering the things we will learn next week about the rest of the rogues gallery of nominees. Hey, maybe when he gets it through his head that a batch of re-tread rightwingnuts won’t cut it, he will get serious and nominate some more patriots like Powell and some real Republicans. Dave McCain (and Feingold too), now more than ever.

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I have posted a picture as described to Dave LaCourse on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing un the heading "ATV Damage?".  Note that the footprints are more readily visible than the ATV tracks.  AGAIN – I AM NOT offering a blanket endorsement of ATVs, but simply providing "the rest of the story," as it were.

Pretty photo.  You guys have some privacy around your spread. Nice! I couldn’t see anything, footprints or wheel tracks, which I suppose makes your point. I think dry is the key here. Willi

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WOW! Amazing! He’s not even ascended to the oval office and already they are coming out of the woodwork with the specious arguments.  I can already see the White House Press Releases: "Human Feet Major Environmental Problem, Obscure Texas College to get fat research grant to provide evidence that ATV industry is falsely blamed." "Close Presidential friend from Midland to lead effort." Reminds me of the Reagan era stuff on how trees were the real polluters! Dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -RDean writes: I have posted a picture as described to Dave LaCourse on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing un the heading "ATV Damage?".  Note that the footprints are more readily visible than the ATV tracks.  AGAIN – I AM NOT offering a blanket endorsement of ATVs, but simply providing "the rest of the story," as it were. TC, R Bwaaaahahahahaha.  I am so *honored*, Richard. But,  I will stick with what I have done (personally on atvs), what I have seen, and willi’s photos.  Can you read?  Read this:  Wheels driven by a gasoline engine in wilderness territory will leave a negative impact on the land, no fuckin’ "ifs, ands, or buts". PERIOD.  And for you to say otherwise is the most stupid,  ludicrous thing ever said!

<G  Are you now claiming that the ground knows what powering the wheels, or are you trying justify human-powered bikes?  Ever seen a "BMX" track?  Oh, wait – is Orvis selling hoverbikes <G?   And again, it depends on how you define "negative."  As many have pointed out, both horses’ hooves and human feet/shoes leave "evidence" ranging from a mere rapidly disappearing footprint to permanent "damage."  The only way to prevent this "negative" impact is ban everything and everybody, period, and that hardly seems a solution. TC, R

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I have posted a picture as described to Dave LaCourse on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing un the heading "ATV Damage?".  Note that the footprints are more readily visible than the ATV tracks.  AGAIN – I AM NOT offering a blanket endorsement of ATVs, but simply providing "the rest of the story," as it were. Pretty photo.  You guys have some privacy around your spread. Nice!

Thanks.  That’s just the backyard <G. I couldn’t see anything, footprints or wheel tracks, which I suppose makes your point. I think dry is the key here.

Well, they are both there, I wish you had been able to see them – if you to the far left, right behind the gate, you’ll see the footprints, and the tracks are in the front, along the fenceline, across most of the picture.  When this was taken, the tracks were not the intended subject.  FWIW, the ground wasn’t all that dry as there had been typical Panhandle weather, with melting and more snow, melting more snow, etc. TC, R

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<SNICKER

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RDean writes: G  Are you now claiming that the ground knows what powering the wheels, or are you trying justify human-powered bikes?  Ever seen a "BMX" track?  Oh, wait – is Orvis selling hoverbikes <G?  

You really can’t read, can you?  Where did I say anything like the above.  I am aware that ATVs do damage to the ground they travel over.  I’ve riddent them and see what they do.  There is a place for them, Dean, but not in wilderness land.  And what the fuck does Orvis have to do with this?   You know when you called me that time at  1 a.m in the morning and I told you I was in bed sleeping?  And you were totally surprised that anyone would be sleeping at 1 in the morning.  Do you remember that?  At the time I thought you were some kind of fuckin’ nut case.  Now I am convinced.  Go fishing, Richard. Take your fly rod, if you own one, and go fishing.  It will get the kinks out of your ass.  You do fish, don’t you, Richard. Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Bwaaaahahahahaha.  I am so *honored*, Richard. But,  I will stick with what I have done (personally on atvs), what I have seen, and willi’s photos.  Can you read?  Read this:  Wheels driven by a gasoline engine in wilderness territory will leave a negative impact on the land, no fuckin’ "ifs, ands, or buts". PERIOD.  And for you to say otherwise is the most stupid,  ludicrous thing ever said!

It’s in times like this I wonder why you ever use the phrase "shiv a git"… /daytripper

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RDean writes: G  Are you now claiming that the ground knows what powering the wheels, or are you trying justify human-powered bikes?  Ever seen a "BMX" track?  Oh, wait – is Orvis selling hoverbikes <G?   You really can’t read, can you?  Where did I say anything like the above.  

During this thread, you have said (all emphasis added): "Introduce _any wheeled vehicle_ to an environment where it has never been before and you will have a negative impact on that invironment. Period!  Fuckin’ Period!  To think otherwise is ludicrous." But later: "I have trouble walking because of the pain in my feet, but I’ll be damned if I would drive a noisy, smoky ATV into some pristine back country.  _I might ride my bike, however._" And then you said repeatedly about various issues that might result in "damage": "Why even have the *chance* that it could happen." And finally: "_I will stick with what I have done (personally on atvs), what I have seen, and willi’s photos_.  Can you read?  Read this:  _Wheels driven by a gasoline engine_ in wilderness territory will leave a negative impact on the land, no fuckin’ "ifs, ands, or buts". PERIOD.  And for you to say otherwise is the most stupid,  ludicrous thing ever said!" I am aware that ATVs do damage to the ground they travel over.  I’ve riddent them and see what they do.  There is a place for them, Dean, but not in wilderness land.  

And again, I have never claimed they should be allowed everywhere, or, IIRC, even _anywhere_ on public lands.  I have simply said that they _can_ be operated without doing any more physical damage than people, horses, bikes, etc.  And that is based on many miles on all sorts of terrain on or in  ATVs, horses, bikes, feet, trucks, tractors, dozers, loaders, etc.  It is also based on having any damage caused to result, directly or indirectly, in money right out of my pocket in the form of lost wheat, grass, timber, etc.   Of course, one could construe a single footprint or a single damaged blade of grass in 1000 sections as "damage," but under such construction, then _nothing_, including people, should be allowed in that area. And what the fuck does Orvis have to do with this?

It was a joke… You know when you called me that time at  1 a.m in the morning and I told you I was in bed sleeping?  And you were totally surprised that anyone would be sleeping at 1 in the morning.  Do you remember that?  

Er, no.  I do remember calling you at what turned out to be, IIRC, about 11-11:30 your time because I had you confused with someone in a different time zone – again, IIRC, you were changing around your email address or something similar.   I apologized immediately, and offered to call you the next day, but you said don’t worry about it, and proceeded with the conversation.  As far as what surprises me, very little does, but I wouldn’t knowingly call someone unexpectedly after about 9:30 or 10 to simply "chat." At the time I thought you were some kind of fuckin’ nut case.  Now I am convinced.  

Well, I guess, it’s like they say – that’s why there’s chocolate and vanilla… Go fishing, Richard. Take your fly rod, if you own one, and go fishing.  

What’s a fly rod?  Is that one of them cane poles with the funny reel on the ass-end?  I think I got one lying around somewhere… It will get the kinks out of your ass.

Well, thanks for your concern, but my ass is completely unkinked…   You do fish, don’t you, Richard.

And in some interesting places, too… TC, R

Response:

I have posted a picture as described to Dave LaCourse on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing un the heading "ATV Damage?".  Note that the footprints are more readily visible than the ATV tracks.  AGAIN – I AM NOT offering a blanket endorsement of ATVs, but simply providing "the rest of the story," as it were. TC, R

Response:

RDean writes: I have posted a picture as described to Dave LaCourse on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing un the heading "ATV Damage?".  Note that the footprints are more readily visible than the ATV tracks.  AGAIN – I AM NOT offering a blanket endorsement of ATVs, but simply providing "the rest of the story," as it were. TC, R

Bwaaaahahahahaha.  I am so *honored*, Richard. But,  I will stick with what I have done (personally on atvs), what I have seen, and willi’s photos.  Can you read?  Read this:  Wheels driven by a gasoline engine in wilderness territory will leave a negative impact on the land, no fuckin’ "ifs, ands, or buts". PERIOD.  And for you to say otherwise is the most stupid,  ludicrous thing ever said! Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Question:

 when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  

BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

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Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

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Charlie, Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time. BAM pretty much describes the typical Texan’s wild animal interactions, doesn’t it<g. — Charlie…

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Almost.  I believe the word you were looking for was BANG.

Depends on the caliber<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang, and others.. let me add just one more bit of info, not definitive, but what the hell quote " Since 1980, 17 of 32 cases of human rabies in the United States have been associated with bat-related virus variants. Noteworthy, only one of these patients had a definite bite history. These cases and recent findings suggest that limited or insignificant physical contact with rabid bats may cause infection, even without a clear history of animal bite. " (this from Center for diseas control and precention, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/rabies.htm   ) while all told, it is a very small numer of total cases, it is a signifacnt percentage of that total. All told however, I suspect that wolfgang is correct in noting that bats wont get ya sick. and for the record, I think bats are very cool, and have had, not now but in the past, bat boxes set up in my yard.

Very interesting.  This is the first I have ever heard about the possible transmission of rabies without a bite, and it does change the equation considerably.  Despite the irrational fear and dread so many people feel for bats, I suspect that they are more frequently handled than most other wild mammals.  Very few people are likely to handle a wild raccoon or skunk for example, regardless of the possibility of the animal being rabid, because of the comparatively high likelihood of being bitten.  Bats, on the other hand, are typically very small and much less formidable.  And, since they are frequently found in relatively large numbers in and around people’s yards, not to mention trout streams, contact must be more frequent. No reasonable person would recommend handling bats or any other wild animals unnecessarily.  And, of course, when handling bats is deemed necessary (for example, when one has gotten hold of your last good hex imitation) it should be done while wearing heavy leather gloves.  Nevertheless, as you pointed out, the risk is small enough that bats should not be stigmatized and persecuted as they so often are. I put up a bat box on a friend’s house about three years ago.  Unfortunately, the yard is heavily shaded, and there is no good place to put a box to take advantage of early morning sunshine which, I have read, is a necessary condition for attracting the bats.

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Taste good they do.  I used to fish for them at night (they are very active at night), when they often come into shallower water, with diving Rapalas.  Good fun.  Interestingly, we used to see bats flying over our heads. I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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So, what happened to the bat?

He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell. Natty

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

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So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Eek!  I read somewhere long ago that ALL animals can swim……but I don’t know….bats?…..emus?…..or are they still extinct?….hm….. Wolfgang

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So, what happened to the bat? He floated off the swim deck and out into the lake a few minutes after I put him down.  He was still alive as near as I could tell.

Bats are nothing. My fishing partner caught an albatross at Christmas Island, and I have the photo to prove it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin I appreciate your concern….I put on a pair of thick neoprene  (sealz skin type) gloves before I handled him.  His little mouth was going a mile a minute trying to get a bite! Natty

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Yeah, really, and we all know rabbies don’t eat anything that’s not kosher. you have a better chance of getting rabbies from a cow

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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[snipped a batty story] Natty

Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world? Peter

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Natty – question. What’s a pickerel? In the Great White North, we call walleye, pickerel.  Is this a pike in your part of the world?

Yes, pickerel are a member of the pike family though plain pickerel are usually smaller than walleye.  There are a few types but the one I most commonly run into is just a plain pickerel or sometimes referred to as a grass pickerel (not to be confused with a chain pickerel which is much larger and a highly sought after game fish).  They have rounded, elongated bodies with a kind of flat, duck billed head/mouth. They are sort of greenish in color with dark brown/black thick vertical stripes that stretch from the top of their backs to about 2/3 down to the belly.  Oh yea, don’t mess with the teeth.  They are like daggers and can leave a permanent scar (told from experience).  They are a fun fish to catch, very strong and fast swimmers  though not at all acrobatic.  Once hooked they mostly try to go deep or straight away… I’ve never seen one jump. For more of a textbook type description check out http://members.tripod.com/~huntingfishing/grasspickerel.htm I don’t know what family of fish walleye are in (or if they are related to the pike or pickerel.  That’s pretty interesting though that walleye are called pickerel in your neck of the woods.  I’m gong to do some research..you’ve peaked my interest. Natty

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forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here.

Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me. Natty

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A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

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wolfgang, now now.. dont get bent out of shape.  I noted i was assuming the most possibly alarmist role I could. I suppose that it also depends on where one lives.. in the "rabies belt" of the US, people make all kinds of assumptions about wild animals having rabies.  when i lived in tx, everyone just assumed that if you had interaction with any wild animal, BAM, it was rabies time.  likely not the same assumptions elsewhere. cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend invited me out on his boat for a nighttime fishing outing specifically to land walleye.  His boat, a beautiful 18 footer, is docked at a nearby lake which is the largest lake in the state.  Years ago the state decided to stock walleye and tiger muskies to add to the pickerel, channel cats, bass and other abundant species of game fish in the hopes of creating a world class trophy lake….they’ve succeeded to a degree. We set out just after dark, despite a sporadic misty rain. The water was like glass and it was quite warm and as a result, the pvc rain suit was a bit uncomfortable.  My friend had a ready supply of herring for bait which had been working for him the last few weeks.  I was eager to try out the new Okuma 5/6 disc drag on my old Fenwick 6 wt. in a setting that was completely unchartered for me.  Thanks to Walt, I also had some very nice streamers which are quite convincing herring imitations and a few clousers in varying colors and sizes.  Another first for me was the addition of a 4ft, lead core braided sink tip added onto my WF-F6 line.  I anticipated quite a different casting experience between the sink tip and the heavy streamer….chuck and duck! We got to our spot, the mist had stopped and my rig was all ready to fish.  A few false casts to get some line out and MAN, this was different!  That darn sink tip was really loading the rod and it made the streamers feel even heavier than they were.  After a minute or two of fooling around with the casting stroke and timing, I had it down well enough to be functional. My friend had his two poles already in rod holders with the baitfish doing their jobs well under the surface.  He was now engaged in lighting a cigar and tending to the cooler full of ale.  I on the other hand, was working the streamer and dealing with the sink tip during the casts. Thirty minutes into the fishing and visibility was now about 3 feet. A dense fog had descended on the water and the mist picked up again. Our Coleman fluorescent lanterns seemed to be the only visible light anywhere on the huge lake. It was quite a setting.  I noticed the line had become even harder to cast so I brought it in for a check.  Ah, no wonder….a clump of weeds were on the streamer.  As I brought the streamer to hand it emitted a screech and shook violently.  AAGGGHH, it nearly sent me to the deck as I stumbled over the bait bucket.  It was a bat!  Apparently, during a false cast this bat thought he had hit the mother load of juicy bugs and swooped in for the kill.  He wasn’t hooked but the leader had wrapped around him and he was subject to at least 2 or 3 more casts and being drug through the water as bait before I realized something was amiss.  I carefully unwrapped him and placed him on the swim platform on the back of the boat where he sat dazed but alive. Throughout the rest of the evening neither of us managed to catch a walleye.  I did catch two decent pickerel (the Okuma disc drag was up to the task)and my friend caught a huge catfish on the herring. Still, nothing will ever compare to my first terrestrial! Natty

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I believe some call walleye yellow pike??? Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse.

Regards, Jeff

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[snip] Thanks – sounds like what we’d call grass pike and northern pike – the grass pike being the smaller.  Here, pickerel are walleye – same fish – different name.  Some of the Canadian TV fishing personalities have been using the American terms and the name ‘pickerel’ is starting to fall into disuse. Peter

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forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Peter

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I believe some call walleye yellow pike???

Walleye have to be about the most misnamed fish there is. They’re members of the perch family. Walleye fishing is like a religion in Minnesota, but I didn’t much care for them when I lived there. They don’t fight hard and you have to fish deep. Live minnows and jigs work best. They taste good, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – forgot – many years ago I caught a big northern while trolling and it did a tail walk right in front of an old couple sitting in a row boat, worm dunking for perch.  Shocked the hell out of ‘em.   They’re not shy about leaving the water, here. Boy would I love to hook a nice northern!  That must have been some show that fish gave those folks.  Last year while on a hunting trip near Shefferville I passed on a chance to go out with one of the local natives and a few others for northerns.  I was having so much fun catching speckled trout (thats what the camp cook called them) out of a canoe in the lake right in camp that I didn’t want to leave.  After two more days of catching and releasing about 100 of these beatiful little trout I wish I had gone out for a chance at the big guys. Don’t know why I’ve never seen a pickerel jump.  Maybe the way I played them or maybe that’s just a difference between the pickerel and their bigger cousing the northerns.  I have seen shows and pictures with northerns doing the tail walk, just never been lucky enough to have a pickerel do one for me.

The pickerel we catch in New England have the "jump, shake, and toss the hook" move down to a science… /daytripper

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ok, so let me be the paranoid one.. but…. I hope you didnt actually touch the bat with your fingers.  In most parts of the US, it is assumed that any bat one comes in contact with has rabies, and unless you can be sure otherwise, rabies treatment is in order… very alarmist, of course.. but hey, why risk it… probably nothing to worry about tho.

Bats are no more likely than any other mammal to carry rabies.  They also happen to be highly susceptible to the effects of the disease once they contract it.  In other words, once they are infected they succumb rather quickly, thus making them less likely than other animals to pass it on.  The notion that bats are high risk rabies transmitters is just another of the many unsupported myths surrounding these most useful  and interesting animals.

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<snipped interesting tale of chiropteran catch So, what happened to the bat? Wolfgang fledermaus fan

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Question:

RAIN"""""""""RAIN"""""""""RAIN"""""" — www.Vermont-Streams.com Fly Fishing Specialists The  true joy in pursuing trout is that they live in such beautiful places! Win a Fly Logic Reel in our contest.  Visit our Fly Shop page to enter.

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RAIN"""""""""RAIN"""""""""RAIN"""""" —

South Carolina News 70 degrees at sunrise, clear skies, light breeze out of the WNW. Went fishing!!! jim

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Question:

Ernie, I assume you are in eastern PA? I am new to flyfishing, but do know where you can do some awesome striper fishing if you aren’t too far east. Raystown Lake has great landlocked striper fishing. 20-30 pounders are the norm and 40+ pounders are caught every year. They do have a website, not sure of the url. Try a search. good luck, Matt

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Hey Guys, Been Fishing the Salt with a fly rod and other tackle for a while now.  Always looking for people to go with.  Would be interested in hearing from any body close. I am in NW Montgomery county.  Any body interested shoot me an email. Ernie, I would suggest a 10WT for most of your fishing, and an intermediate shooting setup for most of your fishing in the surf.  Seems like you are doing battle with the wind most of the time.  Faster sinking lines are great from jetties and intlets.  Get a stipping basket.  Fishing the surf with a fly rod can be very productive for several species in NJ and north coast waters and sometimes it will out produce conventional and spin tackle. Experiment… Damian Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying equip and matls., Tackle and more. http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

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Thanks Paul              Ernie

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Hello Ernie, Like any "species specific" fishing, you first have to know your quarry and then you must understand your quarry’s quarry.  Check out http://www.fishbelly.com , it’s a new web site that is loaded with great information on fishing for all species of fish.  However, to meet your needs, check out the article by Lefty Kreh on fishing his deceiver fly http://www.fishbelly.com/articles/lk110399.htm Bookmark the site because there’s a new article coming soon by Lou Tabory that deals with how to present your flies for best results.  We will also be highlighting the many different prey items that all species of game fish love.  We will include underwater images that will help you "match the hatch" so to speak, in salt water. I hope this info helps.  If you have any other questions, hop on the fishbelly message forum and I’ll be happy to try and answer them. Finally, if you’re looking for "in depth" — no pun intended — information on stripers, check out the selection of videos at Fishbelly.  As an underwater videographer who has spent over 40 years in the striper’s domain, I can promise you any of the Laptew Production videos will make you a better striper angler. Seize the day!  Go fishing. Mike

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After many years of trouting I would like to give stripers a try. I live in Penna, and can easily get to NJ or the Cape , beforo I start calling guides, some basic info      (when, where, with who) would be appreciated                                                  Thanks,                                                            Ernie

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After many years of trouting I would like to give stripers a try. I live in Penna, and can easily get to NJ or the Cape , beforo I start calling guides, some basic info      (when, where, with who) would be appreciated                                                  Thanks,                                                            Ernie

For equipment you’ll want a 9wt, a sinking line and a reel that’s doesn’t say freshwater only. You can use a 7wt but if it’s really windy or you catch a really big fish you’ll appreciate the 9wt. A few clouser and a a few decievers are all you’ll need for flies. The early season in MA chartruse is a good color. I can’t help with NJ. Check with a local shop for what colors are good. If you buy the flies at the same shop you’re likely to get better advice. Paul

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Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I live in Butte, Montana, born and raised here.  Also lived and fished the Sierra Nevada’s near Truckee, CA for about 10 years.  I have degrees in Respiratory Therapy and a graduate degree in Biology.   Been a FF’er since the 70’s.  I very much enjoy still water fishing.  All those lakes near Truckee had a lasting effect.  Milton Reservoir remains one of my favorite places to fish.   I have read this group for the last couple of years and had kind of dropped it due to all the flames and off subject stuff.  I returned a few weeks ago and was surprised to see the lack of venom.  Personally, I enjoy  a fishing group that talks about fishing.   I am curious, what happened? Joe  

Howdy Joe, What happened? Well hell, as someone else put it, we all set down on the front porch and started drinkin’ and bs’n and it turns out we ain’t all so bad, different (‘ceptin wayno and i are johnny rebs) or f&*!ed-up as we originally thought. However, I wouldn’t hold my breath too long if I was you. I see storm clouds a buildin’ out west in the Rockies and up north Canady way. Tight lines, Wataugan Walt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… I live in Butte, Montana, born and raised here.  Also lived and fished the Sierra Nevada’s near Truckee, CA for about 10 years.  I have degrees in Respiratory Therapy and a graduate degree in Biology.   Been a FF’er since the 70’s.  I very much enjoy still water fishing.  All those lakes near Truckee had a lasting effect.  Milton Reservoir remains one of my favorite places to fish. I have read this group for the last couple of years and had kind of dropped it due to all the flames and off subject stuff.  I returned a few weeks ago and was surprised to see the lack of venom.  Personally, I enjoy  a fishing group that talks about fishing. I am curious, what happened? Joe Howdy Joe, What happened? Well hell, as someone else put it, we all set down on the front porch and started drinkin’ and bs’n and it turns out we ain’t all so bad, different (‘ceptin wayno and i are johnny rebs) or f&*!ed-up as we originally thought. However, I wouldn’t hold my breath too long if I was you. I see storm clouds a buildin’ out west in the Rockies and up north Canady way. Tight lines, Wataugan Walt

    Rebels? In NORTH Carolina ? I was under the impression that everybody north of Jacksonville was a yankee. (that auta kick up some dust). Guess next time I see ya I’ll havta check if yer smoken backwoods en gulpin burbon en branch water ( I prefer southern comfort).                                                      John Popp                                                 pertnear south as ya get                                                   in Sanford Fl.

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Freud would have had a field day with this one.  I’ve heard about having an Oedipus complex, but I’ve never heard of suffering from the Rex. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok…here’s mine.  Sorry to bore you, in advance. I am Fifi, the standard internet test poodle. I am a 6 year old miniature french poodle (white, female) owned by some very nice people in Canada.   I am very pampered and a very, very lucky little dog.  I have a beautiful studded collar that my owner, an elderly couple, got me for Christmas last year (human year).  I am well fed and groomed. Like I said, I am very lucky. Except for sometimes. That sometimes is when Uncle Jim comes by and is left alone with me or takes me to the poodle boutique.  He is a very mean man.  In the interest of good taste and politeness (I am french, after all) I will not elaborate on the details of his acts.   Once, though, he left me in the car on the hottest day of the year while he went in to some place that looked like a big doghouse and had sillohouettes of nude human females painted black on the outside.   Of course, I can’t speak and my owner never knows what he does. The best I can do is bark and try to bite him. — Fifi

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Which just goes to show you…never underestimate an ass. Jon "Fishing’s the last thing on my mind" Cook.

– Shoot far’ Jon, I’ve seen asses that couldn’t be *overestimated*! (-: Frank Church Elkhart, IN Over the hill?    What hill?    I didn’t see no hill….(!)

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Ok…here’s mine.  Sorry to bore you, in advance. I am Fifi, the standard internet test poodle. I am a 6 year old miniature french poodle (white, female) owned by some very nice people in Canada.   I am very pampered and a very, very lucky little dog.  I have a beautiful studded collar that my owner, an elderly couple, got me for Christmas last year (human year).  I am well fed and groomed. Like I said, I am very lucky. Except for sometimes. That sometimes is when Uncle Jim comes by and is left alone with me or takes me to the poodle boutique.  He is a very mean man.  In the interest of good taste and politeness (I am french, after all) I will not elaborate on the details of his acts.   Once, though, he left me in the car on the hottest day of the year while he went in to some place that looked like a big doghouse and had sillohouettes of nude human females painted black on the outside.   Of course, I can’t speak and my owner never knows what he does. The best I can do is bark and try to bite him. — Fifi

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Ok…here’s mine.  Sorry to bore you, in advance. I am Fifi, the standard internet test poodle.

Bloody hell ! Reincarnation yet, thought you got burned to death in a pain threshold experiment.  Welcome back to ROFF. You will doubtless be pleased to here that one of the current discussions is Catfishing, and whether to release the beasts or not. This may at least give you some vicarious pleasure, and compensate you somewhat for the dastardly acts imposed on your good self by Uncle Jim. Seems there are a couple of people on here, very similar to Uncle Jim,  who have problems with cats actually, or maybe just the houses the cats live in ?  Whatever, glad to see you alive and barking. Fifi long thought to be dead, has again raised her elegant head, like a phoenix she rose, ( an unnatural pose ! ), and she still looks well groomed and  well fed. Pampered and polished she is, and goes once a week for a frizz, to the poodle boutique, with her uncle the freak, but no reason to get in a tizz ! The tests have now been postponed, cause Fifi was obviously stoned, you dont feel pain, when youre full of cocaine, and the lexus would have to be loaned. In the future we

Question:

Just moved into the state and looking for fly fishing clues around the Ogden area.  I would appreciate any assistance. Al

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Hi Al I’m sure there are clubs in your area. Just call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 and get the information of the club nearest you. This is the time of the year when most clubs start their fall meeting. Good luck & … Tight Lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

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Question:

looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. thanks in advance, chris

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looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. thanks in advance, chris

Chris, you will have a long walk from the ferryto a fly shop, when you get to town look up robinsons sporting goods, if you go up to cowichan or naniamo, cambell river there are more and better shops to look around. Trevor Hanson’s Fishing Outfitter’s    "just add water" 813 First Street SW Calgary, Alberta T2P 1N3 1-888-522-4489 102-580 Hornby Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 3B6 1-800-784-3312 (604)684-8988 fax (604)684-8998

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: looking for info on fly shops in victoria, bc.  would appreciate info : including name of shop and hopefully a phone #.  would prefer a shop : within walking distance from the ferry terminal, even if it’s a long walk. Depends on which ferry terminal. The ones from the US side (believe they come from Port Angeles, Anacortes, perhaps both) dock fairly close to downtown. However, most ferry traffic arrives from the Canadian side, leaving the mainland at Tsawassen (near the border, and about an hour south of Vancouver).  These ferries dock at Swartz Bay, which is a good 20 miles east of downtown Victoria.  However, should you choose to walk ;-^), the first town (about 3 miles) is Sydney, and there are three or four "fishing" shops there.  Most are saltwater-oriented (get yer bait herring here!) but all have a few flies and tying supplies. Trail, BC               voice: (250) 368-9315 Canada V1R 2V7          data:  (250) 368-9341

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You do not specify what type of Japanese Maples these are, but…. I would recommend not pruning your Japanese Maple.  My wife’s grandmother had some very nice old maples that we had to prune every year, only because some gardner had once pruned them back.   Her/our experience was that once they’re pruned the pruned ends bush out and sucker heavily.  Every year these trees (15-20 feet tall) would bush out and become so thick you couldn’t see into them.  The pleasure of the japanese maple is the open, airy look, which was totally destroyed by the pruning. G-maw railed on and on every year about how they should never have touched those trees.  She was quite an experienced gardner and ikebana instructor, and knew her stuff.  In her opinion, the only pruning that should ever be done is to remove large branches to help promote the open feel these trees should have.  The natural shape is wonderful if you just let it go and grow up…

   My advice is also non-professional, and while I agree with these sentiments about what happens if you prune badly, it doesn’t follow that J. Maples shouldn’t be pruned.  It’s certainly true that if you lop off a major branch of most deciduous trees, the tree will put out many shoots from that point and generally look bad.  The proper thing is to prune early to establish the shape of the tree as it grows…and this pruning should generally be of complete stems or branches.  If you must cut off a thicker branch or stem other than at the base, it should be just beyond a smaller side branch that you expect to provide a better shape.  It may still be necessary to get rid of suckers, but they are easily rubbed off with your thumb when small, and the resprouting does not go on forever.   I too like the open airy look of a properly trimmed J. Maple, but this rarely happens by accident or neglect. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I LOVE THIS COMMENT AND INTEND TO PLAIGERIZE IT(SP): This is non-professional advice and if followed, voids your warranty… MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In our yard in Tuscaloosa, Alabama we have nice small three year old Japanese Maple  in need of pruning for better shaping, etc.  Is it OK to prune branches now

Question:

Has anyone been hitting reds (or specks for that matter) in or around Corpus, the Laguna Madre or Aransas Pass lately? We have been getting skunked in the Laguna using Clousers and other attractors.         john koon

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I was at Baffin Bay two weeks ago with our fly fishing club and the reds were really turned on there. No one using fly rods caught reds less than 27" long, and one member caught a 34-incher. The winds were howling that day – 40 knots, which made the fish much less wary, especially at 9 Mile Flat.

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I’m going to fish Pine Creek, Slate Run and Cedar Run, PA for the first time from May 20-25.  If anyone has some good advice or anecdotes about the area, I’d really appreciate it.  Any hints on nymphing would be great. I’ve been camping in the area before and plan to camp up Slate Run at the campground.  Is it free? crowded?  I read Charles Meck’s book on PA trout streams and also plan to call the local fly fishing shop at Slate Run, which apparently has a hotline. Also, any thoughts on the Little Juniata? Thanks a million

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Question:

Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge

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Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge

They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve.

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Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve.

Well, I take it back.  I just got my new Golden Hackle catalog, and the price has gone up to $195 for a #1 cape.  I haven’t seen a new F&F, but I would bet his price went way up too, since Gordon at the Golden Hackle is pretty fair with his prices. Steve

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Another source of jungle cock is Dan Bailey’s catalog page 33.  The feathers are selected by size and sell for $5.95 per package. For futhure info call 800-356-4052. Good Tying & Tight Lines Al BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT

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The Cabela’s 1996 fly-fishing catalog has #1 capes for $125 and #2 capes for $97

The (new?) British monthly Fly Fishing and Fly Tying has currently an inserted catalogue for Anglia Fisheries listing #1 jungle cock capes for 80 pounds — much the same as Cabelas. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve. Well, I take it back.  I just got my new Golden Hackle catalog, and the price has gone up to $195 for a #1 cape.  I haven’t seen a new F&F, but I would bet his price went way up too, since Gordon at the Golden Hackle is pretty fair with his prices. Stev

You  can also call Shannon’s Toronto Canada 1.800.618.1418

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