Question:

<Wonderful story snipped Russell Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Welcome back. We missed you.    Signed     Fish

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*thick skin* to venture here(though why that is necessary to discuss something and tranquil and relaxing as fly fishing is beyond me)

So one would think… I was born and raised near Driggs, Idaho. Driggs is located in the middle of Teton Valley in southeastern Idaho. Running right down the middle of the valley is the Teton River.

That must’ve been beautiful. Growing up I was quite oblivious of the existence of the river

Youth is wasted on the young, as a wise and no doubt old man said. I set the hook and landed the most beautiful seven-inch brown trout I had ever seen, well at least in the last ten years.

I think returning makes it all the sweeter. Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Happens to me all the time. Very nice read, Russell. Thanks for sharing. Steve

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<snip I was euphoric. I thanked the fish, thanked my doctor and thanked God. (There have been many other and probably more important benefits that have come from getting my eyes fixed but none have made me happier.)

Your post reminded me that I sometimes take all this good stuff for granted. I just opened the shades in my office and spent a few minutes reveling in the joy of sight. If you’ve been lurking as you say, you’ve noticed some pretty heated discussions on photography. Interesting that we could all get so wrapped up in the topic of which is better and why, while others are just glad to see *any* image. My wife bought me a fishing licence for Father’s Day.

You’ve got a keeper there! She obviously saw the joy your new-found sight brought. Congrats. I bought me some new hip waders and patched my chest waders. I have made it out a few times since with great success. Thursday evening I am headed to Idaho to take care of some family business. I will be taking my rod, vest, waders and float tube and plan on being on the Teton River very early Friday morning. That is where it all started. I can’t wait.

I await your TR. Good luck catching fish, but *that* isn’t the most important part, now is it?  :) Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Keep spreading it around, my friend. You do it well. — TL, Tim

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  (This is a repost of a message I sent on July 7. The original somehow   never made it out of my ISP’s server so I’m reposting with Google. A   TR will follow later.)     Because of a renewed (I’ll explain why renewed in a bit) interest in   fly-fishing, I started lurking in ROFF about a month and a half ago.   The more I observed from the banks, the more I began to wonder if I   dare wade in lest I get my head bit off. you stupid son of a bitch – just a little something to make you feel like part of the group! Welcome to ROFF! There’s a Clave this Fall at Henry’s Fork. Willi

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Russell Great story. Years ago fishing Spanish Fork and hunting mulies in the oak brush foothills with an old Enfield above the powder house helped keep me a reasonably sane undergrad. When things got too weird we’d head for the railroad cafe at the Thistle junction for some pie and coffee.

The town of Thistle no longer exists. In 1983 it was wiped out by a landslide that so blocked the Spanish Fork River that it created a big lake over the town. Here’s a picture of the dam and lake. Thistle is under the water on the left/middle part of the picture. http://landslides.usgs.gov/html_files/landslides/slides/slide3.htm Here is a pretty concise description of what happened: http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/locales/thistle.html to see the stainless steel cars of the California Zephyr coming out of the Canyon up from Denver in the snow, 100% USA built, on past thousands of sheep on the flat in Winter enclosures, and headed for Salt Lake. I just got to get back to that country someday, visit the Art Museum in Springville

A true treasure of this state. and maybe head on down to Helper in the Utah coal country.

Ah, Helper! I lived in Price from 1977 to 1979 and worked in a coal mine just north of Helper. What great country that is. Price is one of the best places that I’ve ever lived. Great people down there. Russell

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Great story Russell, my best wishes for you. Do yourself a favour wear polarised glasses. That improves your sight in/on the water, but the best point is it protects your eyes. I tell you this, because I  hooked my cheek  directly under my left eye last time I was fishing. That was painful enough, can

Question:

Uh…Dave? Better get another "moniker" Dave M is already taken–by me   The real Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase…

It was a fairly long drift. It was not as I placed the fly on the water. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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thanks!  nice description of patterns… Rob –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

did the trout do this after a long drift by the dry, or (almost) immediately after the fly hit the water?  I would guess the latter, because that initial disturbance gets transmitted quite a long distance, and if the fish is keyed on that, then they will chase… Just curious… — Rob

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A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen. Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat.

There are exceptions to most rules, and I too have found that now and then a trout will hunt down a floating dun or sedge;  it is generally the surface disturbance that alerts the trout to the remote  insect’s presence, and that is why we drag our sedges to provoke a response ~ the induced take.  You mention a parachute hopper; this fly is much more visible to a trout than a regular dry fly ~ parachuted flies have a greater portion of fly that is fished subsurface than that of standard hackled dries. During the E. danica hatch, it is surprising how many duns manage to inadvertantly evade a trout when the nymphal shuck  has just been removed. The trout usually go for the shuck in a violent rise, and the floating dun is left to make his leisurely escape.  I assume that  the trout saw the shuck a lot more clearly than the floating dun (as the shuck is subsurface), and went for that instead of the real bit of ephemeral protein. However,  given that the floating natural fly is apt to make good his airborne escape, the trout are thus less inclined to waste a journey to a morcel that may escape his jaws.  With a nymph such as the PT (which imitates the nymph in the later instars as opposed to a nymph in its hatching to dun phase) the trout knows that he has plenty of time to chase down and eat the hapless nymph:  the snack is more or less guaranteed (unless another trout gets to the nymph first)  and the journey after it is well worth it indeed.   That is why when fishing deep nymphs such as the PT, the takes are a lot less violent and there is very little water disturbance (boils & bulges) to alert the angler.  This is where the bite indicator, or my  preferred  greased leader comes into its own. The trout don’t really need to rush to the nymph, they merely cruise it down. I find that trout are more inclined to hunt the PT nymph down over the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph.  I reckon that this is due to the trout believing that the GRHE nymph is soon to hatch out and fly off, and so he is more cautious with distance  ,  but at closer distances the trout fairly whallops the GRHE, seemingly in great haste to secure his meal.  The hook holds of the two flies also seem to bear this theory out too,  as the PT is an apex of the jaw snagger, whereas the GRHE is a scissor snagger much like that of a dry fly.  I spy rises to my GRHEs by the disturbances in the water, or the golden flash as the trout rapidly turns after seizing the fly.  In reflected light and in  turbulent water, I use the greased leader to detect bites with the GRHE / rabbit fur nymph, as the other methods are more difficult to practice in these situations.  Obviously,  when the fly is less than 12 " deep,  the surface splash of the diving trout is enough to know when to lift the rod or pull in the line to set the hook. (for utter butchery on a stream you can use an E. danica nymph,  but the fun of using it is more or less inversely proportional to the number of fish that you catch whilst using it in late May) Regards, Michael.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view.

You are correct in the depth enlarging the window issue,  but I am am right in saying that the sunk fly is *vastly* more visible than the floating fly. I have done a lot of diving and snorkelling and have seen this effect for myself.

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Brian Nelson writes: Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

I’ve seen the same thing happen with Landlocked Salmon and Brookies.  I’ve had a Brookie swim forward three or so feet to take a size 20 Jail Bird floating midge. Dave

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This isn’t correct. The dryfly floating outside of the trout’s window will still indent the surface film and make an impression in the "mirrored" part of the trout’s field of view. Trout do recognise that food items do this and it is one of the most important factors to be considered when designing/tying dryflies. This is often what the trout will come to and then either take or refuse once the fly is in full view. The field of view for a trout to detect a nymph or a dryfly is virtually the same. I have had trout come over 12 feet for large terrestrials. It is also depth dependant in that the deeper the fish lies the larger its window of full view. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly. They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

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Have a look at http://www.ratfish.com/usual   According to Fran Betters who developed the USUAL it should be fished out as a dry and retreived as a wet using short but rapid retrieve. Red or orange thred must be used and keep the dubbing sparse. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.

Negative. I’ve had a Brown trout come from 6+ feet downstream (about like the Nautilus in Disney’s classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea") to intercept a dry fly (parachute hopper). Looked like a dad gum freight train! Granted, that ain’t the normal way of the trout but it did it….. in front of witnesses, too. We were fishing from a boat. Tight lines, Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows….. I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent.

Oh, I’ve caught plenty of the others this way, but brookies definitely fall prey more often……probably because they’re easier anyway. I rarely use this method deliberately with the intent of catching more fish. Frankly, it isn’t the most interesting way to catch fish.  It is more often a matter of letting the fly dangle rather than reeling up all the line only to have to strip it off again when it’s my turn to fish.  This is especially true in those situations when the fish are feeding aggressively.  I’ve often found myself in situations where a partner will get a fish on while I’m still releasing one, and vice versa…..sometimes it isn’t worth the time to put the line back on the reel. Wolfgang

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I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:   Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840   Size 12 to 22   Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray   Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)   Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)    Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)   The only way to fish it "wrong" is to leave it in your flybox. Enjoy HINT: Use a "Usual" as your point fly–tie in 18 inches of flourocarbon at the bend of the hook–and hang a LaFontaine Deep Sparkle Pupa off it. Deadly effective.   Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

well it’s officially in my "go to" list of techniques.  In my case last week, it did work on small browns…which are probably as aggressive as brookies in any event. I was swinging emergers successfully, and then saw a fish rising…switched to the EHC dry, missed a strike, then let it swing…it dove on the swing, and bang…fish on.  Did that for another half an hour or so successfully until I moved on. — Rob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rob L writes: (snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve. While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling?

The subsurface fly is a lot more visible to the trout than one floating on the surface.  With a dry fly, the trout’s window of observation is very limited due to the reflective nature of the surface of the water (it works both sides of the water too, and just as we see sky and so on reflected off the surface, the trout & other fish see reflected riverbed at angles beyond the refraction / reflection limit).  This aspect of visibility to the trout is one reason why I really like to use the nymph over the dry fly in a lot of places. A trout can be drawn to a nymph, however a dry fly must pass overhead of the trout in order to be seen.  Parachute flies and Klinkhamers do manage to be seen better than most dryflies though,  and that is because part of the fly has managed to penetrate the surface tension and become more visible to the trout. Regards, Mike.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis) Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

thanks to both for the pointer…definitely will try it. just tied up a couple of deep sparkle caddis pupa yesterday… now for "the usual" Rob

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I don’t have a Google link–but here’s the pattern:  Hook: Tiemco 100 or Daiichi 1100 or Mustad 94840  Size 12 to 22  Thread 8/0 Uni-thread  color Red; Orange; Light Cahill; Gray  Tail: Clump of snowshoe hare (from the heel of the foot)  Body: Snowshoe hare dubbing (thread color shows through when wet–plan accordingly)   Wing: Snowshoe Hare clump tied upright (Mayfly) or down-wing style (Caddis)

Try this: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/intermediate/part28.html Seems pretty easy, even to me. riverman

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Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

Frank,  do you have a link to "the usual" tying pattern? I’m not savvy enough w/google to narrow down the search… I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great. — Rob S.

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I accidentally stumbled into the same technique with an EHC on the Delaware last week…worked great.

I’ve used this method successfully with dozens of patterns while watching a partner fish.  I typically just leave the bug in the water with a bunch of line out while watching.  Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..don’t really know about cutthroat. Wolfgang

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Virtually every pattern I’ve done this with has caught some fish.  That said, some do work better than others…..or so it appears to me, anyway.  The EHC has always been superb used in this way as well as in it’s more customary role as a dry fly.  Pass lakes also work very well.  Surprisingly, I’ve caught less fish using streamers this way than with dries or designated emerger patterns.  Brookies are typically more susceptible than browns or rainbows…..

I’ll add a brown to the list, caught on a Royal Wulff, tho I confess it was more by accident than intent. Joe F.

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Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Rob, as you’ve noticed, its a good technique.  I use a fly called "the Usual" specifically for this.  It is a great dry fly, but it becomes an instant emerger when allowed to swing in the current.  The next cast, again dry then emerger.  I can double my chances of catching fish in this way ’cause I’m fishing two parts of the water column vice one.          Frank Reid

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Hi Rob, Maybe they were taking it for an emerging insect? caddis? Could be very hungry fish or just lots of bugs moving at this time of year? Sometimes a twitched or skated dry will would well too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

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I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

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Rob L writes:

(snip) Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts?

This is a common occurence with land locked salmon.  After the drag free drift, the fly is left to swing down and around, then stripped back slowly.  They will hit it on the swing (it’s moving pretty quickly), or on the retrieve.  While fishing on a river in Maine from a boat, my grandson caught fish after fish on a Goddard Caddis dragged in the current.  Since I was netting his fish, I didn’t fish much.  <G I have also seen brook trout take a fly like this.  An emerger?  Bait fish struggling? Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Casting across, mending the line as it swings and letting it hang for awhile is classic wet fly technique which you have just rediscovered. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

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I was on a river in Northern California that I had never fished before last weekend and was using dry flies the whole time.  A weird thing (to me) was happening, I was catching quite a few fish after the fly completed its drift over where I suspected the fish were lying, and then I would let the fly hang in the current, sink under water slightly, hang there for a second again and then BAMN! Just like Emeril Lagasse the fish were slamming the dry fly.  This occured on three different flies.  Is this a common thing to happen? Normally I have had fish take the dries on the surface, not underneath. Any thoughts? Thanks Rob L

Your dragging dry had become an emerger struggling to get to the surface (i.e. trout snack food.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Thanks for the info.  I’ll have to try the "Prissy".  I figure even with the 5wt it ought to be fun just trying.

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…  I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt …

Poppers, the bigger the better but whatever you can cast. I like deer hair poppers but they’re real wind eaters. The weedless ones are best, they have a loop of heavy mono tied in to surround the hook point. Use a short & heavy leader, ie less than 7′ and tapered from .021 (~ 50 lb test) or so down to about a 3X or even 2X. Some folks don’t even worry about taper when tossing big bass poppers and just use 6 or 7 foot of moderately heavy (30-40 lb test) mono. You can catch big bass on a 5wt but you’d be better off with a heavier rig, especially if you need to horse ‘em out of the weeds. — Ken Fortenberry

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<<I’ll be down in Tx early in April and have the opportunity to fish lake fork.  Bass should be in the shallows and i’ve been told it’s a good opportunity to do some sight fishing.   I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt so I suspect I can’t throw the monster bugs. You will be here at a very good time. From the first of April until tmid June is the best time for fly fishing Laker Fork. If you are using a 5 wt rod I would advise taking an extra. This is also a very good time for blue gill and crappie. They are huge and will be just right for your 5 wt. . I usually use 17 lb. leader at Lake Fork. No taper. These fish aren’t leader shy. Even the big bass will hit small poppers. A favorite of mine is called "Miss Prissy". You can buy them at WalMart for less than you can make them. It may still be a little early for poppers. If so, try something like chartruese or white wooly buggers or zonkers. The fish that you see are probably bedding fish. Cast to them but if they ignore it leave them alone to spawn. You will see people torment them until they are able to snag them. There are a couple of good fly fishing guides on the lake if you need one.

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I’ll be down in Tx early in April and have the opportunity to fish lake fork.  Bass should be in the shallows and i’ve been told it’s a good opportunity to do some sight fishing.   I’d like to try out my first fly rod and wondered if anyone had any suggestions on what to throw? Oh yea,  my only rod (so far) is a 5wt so I suspect I can’t throw the monster bugs. thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips.

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Question:

Been tying flies for a couple of years.  Here in S.C. and also in G.A. fly tying hooks are about as hard to find as hens teeth.  I like to stand in front of a wall of hooks and look at them while scratching my head.  This is half the fun of buying hooks to me.  But these damn Mustad hooks are about all anyone carries.   Do these thing rust overnight?  Or am I doing something wrong? I open my fly box after a day fishing so they can air dry, sometimes soak my flies in Scotchgard (which I am convinced is useless), and generally try to assure they are dry before storing.  But rust they do… What the deal?? Patrick  

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But these damn Mustad hooks are about all anyone carries.   Do these thing rust overnight?  Or am I doing something wrong? I open my fly box after a day fishing so they can air dry, sometimes soak my flies in Scotchgard (which I am convinced is useless), and generally try to assure they are dry before storing.  But rust they do… What the deal??

Boyhowdy, I ain’t heard that one before. I’ve been tying for about 35 years – on Mustads mostly. They’ve  had their problems with quality control: sizing, hook-to- hook uniformity, sharpness, closed eyes, open eyes, temper, and other assorted defects, but I ain’t never had a problem with rust. Don’t know. Glad to be of help :^).

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You obviously are not using a stainless model. Try the 34007 model in your favorite size.

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Been tying flies for a couple of years.  Here in S.C. and also in G.A. fly tying hooks are about as hard to find as hens teeth.  I like to stand in front of a wall of hooks and look at them while scratching my head.  This is half the fun of buying hooks to me.  But these damn Mustad hooks are about all anyone carries. Do these thing rust overnight?  Or am I doing something wrong? I open my fly box after a day fishing so they can air dry, sometimes soak my flies in Scotchgard (which I am convinced is useless), and generally try to assure they are dry before storing.  But rust they do… What the deal?? Patrick

Haven’t had that problem with Mustad. Do you put them away wet or do you dry them out on your patch first? I have heard that if you get your box wet or put your flies back in the box wet that they will rust. Jon

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Patrick: You might try tucking one or two of those small dessicant packets in your fly box–the kind that come in some food packages or in boxes of electronic gear. Or consider buying other hook brands through catalogs.  Dick Talleur’s last book, <Talleur’s Basic Fly Tying, has a brief hook substition chart  in the appendix (Daiichi, Mustad, Orvis, Tiemco, Partridge, Eagle Claw, et al.) Also, the Tach-it box, availabe at most stores, has detachable magnetic backing that lets you remove all your flies and dry them on a warm or sunny surface. Works.

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Question:

Seeing the thread that started all this, it is rather clear that Mr. Gherke has confused ‘libel’ with ’satire’ and ‘parody’. He might wish to consider that his position as a ‘public figure’ here and as owner of the company makes it _much_ more difficult to prove libel, especially given his past posts, before further lining his attorney’s pockets to no avail.

I’m sure thousands of dollars are being spent in his lab right now to prove conclusively that the only way to serve papers is with the left hand, never never the right, and that those who do serve papers with the right loose their targets in the vital first few seconds of the process.  People just don’t appreciate what an atheletic feat it is to serve papers.

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[ Article crossposted from rec.arts.poems,rec.outdoors.fly.fishing ] [ Author was Tim Patterson ] Oops! I just noticed that you were worried about The Jerhk’s = reputation with regard to his PRODUCT. Now, you obviously weren’t referring to his execrable verse, so you must be talking = about his fishing products, in which case, you posted this on the wrong group, so I’ve sent it to where it belongs.

<<big snip Seeing the thread that started all this, it is rather clear that Mr. Gherke has confused ‘libel’ with ’satire’ and ‘parody’. He might wish to consider that his position as a ‘public figure’ here and as owner of the company makes it _much_ more difficult to prove libel, especially given his past posts, before further lining his attorney’s pockets to no avail. — Joe Ellis     o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()XDarwin(;        Now on the Web at      | Cincinnati, OH 45240 / /~LL~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at $25 hr/2 hr min.

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0] : [ Article crossposted from rec.arts.poems,rec.outdoors.fly.fishing ] : [ Author was Tim Patterson ] : : Oops! I just noticed that you were worried about The Jerhk’s = : reputation with regard to his PRODUCT. Now, you obviously : weren’t referring to his execrable verse, so you must be talking = : about his fishing products, in which case, you posted this on : the wrong group, so I’ve sent it to where it belongs. : <<big snip : Seeing the thread that started all this, it is rather clear that Mr. Gherke : has confused ‘libel’ with ’satire’ and ‘parody’. He might wish to consider : that his position as a ‘public figure’ here and as owner of the company : makes it _much_ more difficult to prove libel, especially given his past : posts, before further lining his attorney’s pockets to no avail. : — : Joe Ellis     o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios : ()XDarwin(;        Now on the Web at      | Cincinnati, OH 45240 : / /~LL~~LL~  http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! : Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at $25 hr/2 hr min. While the original post was certainly scurrilous, Mr. G. may not wish to perform the necessary public demonstration to prove conclusively that it was libel Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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[ Article crossposted from rec.arts.poems,rec.outdoors.fly.fishing ] [ Author was Tim Patterson ] Oops! I just noticed that you were worried about The Jerhk’s = reputation with regard to his PRODUCT. Now, you obviously weren’t referring to his execrable verse, so you must be talking = about his fishing products, in which case, you posted this on the wrong group, so I’ve sent it to where it belongs. Of course, you still have to show that the poem itself was libellous and that Gehrke’s penis size in some way relates to the quality of his product. You’ll probably also have to prove that his penis is not below avergae size, but I think that would require a specialist to determine (preferably a brave volunteer). This is all asuming that you were refering to my little ode and not one of the many other flames that "Mr. G." seems to have called down upon himself on rec.arts.poems. He sure has a winning way with folk, does ol’ George!         Tim the ever helpful  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – = Your libalist poetry is something we don’t think we care to bring to Mr= =2E Gehrke’s attention for we are sure you are as close to a libelous, lega= l law suit as you can get . . . and I can state for all certainty, you do= not want to pursue this line of defamation on a man that makes his living producing wonderful products for the American People.  He doesn’= t do it to you and your products and it isn’t fair,  that you do such a low-down, unkind thing to this wonderful, warm, giving human being. That you think (for Mr. Gehrke) that he should not take offense only speaks ill of those standards that are below him and the staff here at this company. = I would cease and disist if I were you.  I would not dare show him this= insult to his integrity and coarse you have embarked upon.  It really serves no purpose.  You do not want to test this man in court.  I assur= e you of this sirs. = Again, I strongly advise that you stop this deflamation of character immediately and post a retraction for your SLANDEROUS remarks.  I canno= t stress this important point to you strong enough. This company will not= tolerate this public abuse on a world-wide format. =  li=B7bel (l=BA=93b=85l) Law. n. 1.a. A false publication in writing, p= rinting, or typewriting or in signs or pictures that maliciously damages a person’s reputation. b. The act or an instance of presenting such a statement to the public. 2. The written claims presented by a plaintiff= in an action at admiralty law or to an ecclesiastical court. –li=B7bel= tr.v. li=B7beled or li=B7belled, li=B7bel=B7ing or li=B7bel=B7ling, li=B7= bels or li=B7bels. To communicate a false statement about in writing or by mean= s of signs or pictures. –li=93bel=B7er or li=93bel=B7ist n. = Sincerely, = Mr. W.H. / Executive Secretary & Mrs Gladys M. Gehrke with copies sent:= cc/Mr. H. Cross / Patent Attorney cc/ B. Schroeder/ Law Firm/Spokane Washington Federal Law Division

– =    Dr.Feelgood’s Amazing And Marvellous Poetic Panacea        Guaranteed To Cure All Ailments Of The Soul                       NO REFUNDS           http://condor.lpl.arizona.edu/~tim/

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Question:

<snip If you guys would have me believing that, I could also walk on water.  Not so.

Hold on George, you are destroying perceptions I had here.  I thought that if I rubbed gink on the felt of my wading boots, I could walk on water 8^) Bruce….

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<snip If you guys would have me believing that, I could also walk on water.  Not so. Hold on George, you are destroying perceptions I had here.  I thought that if I rubbed gink on the felt of my wading boots, I could walk on water 8^) Bruce….

thinking clearly. I used to have two fishing hats.  The guys bought the one that said, ‘Gink Keeps It Up’ . . . while the gals bought the T-Shirts that said; "Xink Keeps it Down!" Take care Bruce. George

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I tying a bunch of dries right now and use Gink at the stream with good results. After the discussion about sprays and such I was wondering if it was a good idea to treat my flies with Gink now so they will be ready out of the box on the stream. How about treating the materials before tying?

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I tying a bunch of dries right now and use Gink at the stream with good results. After the discussion about sprays and such I was wondering if it was a good idea to treat my flies with Gink now so they will be ready out of the box on the stream. How about treating the materials before tying?

I prefer to treat my dries immediately after tying. Some writers have described using gink and simialr dressings as a ‘dubbing wax’ but I’m unaware of anyone  applying floatants to materials before tying the fly. Ralph H

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tying a bunch of dries right now and use Gink at the stream with good results. After the discussion about sprays and such I was wondering if it was a good idea to treat my flies with Gink now so they will be ready out of the box on the stream. How about treating the materials before tying? I prefer to treat my dries immediately after tying. Some writers have described using gink and simialr dressings as a ‘dubbing wax’ but I’m unaware of anyone  applying floatants to materials before tying the fly. Ralph H

DEAR RALPH:  YOUR QUESTIONS are good ones.   First, Gink is not used as a dubbing wax and no, you don’t want to pre-treat your flies before you store them in your fly tying box.  Dress your flies astream. HOWEVER!  (Let us use a ‘Light Cahill’ Dry Fly as an example).  You pick one up astream and you note it and its color.  You might even take a picture of it.  Now its time to tie the fly . . . to match the hatch. If you pick a yellow that matches the fly with ‘a dry’ material, it will be lighter than when it gets wet.  As a test, you want to take a little GINK and see how much darker that dry yellow will become IF and WHEN it becomes WET.  You, more likely than not will choose a lighter shade of yellow that will darken to the correct shade AFTER you get to your fishing hole. Understand? This is one of the neater features of using GINK AT the Fly Tying Table.  Just use it as a test for each shade of fly you’re going to tie and use it without exception for every fly pattern you’ll tie in your fishing life.  It is THAT important. Hope this hint increases your ‘Matching the Hatch’ stategies. Sincerely, George Gehrke (Gink Keeps It Up!)

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I use Nufly coat on my newly tied flies, and it works great. I think it must be like scotch guard, which I intend to try also. You must apply it to newly tied or purchased flies which have not been Gink’d yet, or else it doesn’t work as good. I also buy Albolene at the drug store ( it is used as a make-up remover cream) for about 5 bucks a quart to refill my floatant bottles. Learned that from Art Lee’s book "Fly fishing for trout on rivers and streams". It works as good as any floatant. Best is probably Orvis "Superfloat", it dries the flies and treats them with one application.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tying a bunch of dries right now and use Gink at the stream with good results. After the discussion about sprays and such I was wondering if it was a good idea to treat my flies with Gink now so they will be ready out of the box on the stream. How about treating the materials before tying? I prefer to treat my dries immediately after tying. Some writers have described using gink and simialr dressings as a ‘dubbing wax’ but I’m unaware of anyone  applying floatants to materials before tying the fly. Ralph H DEAR RALPH:  YOUR QUESTIONS are good ones.   First, Gink is not used as a dubbing wax and no, you don’t want to pre-treat your flies before you store them in your fly tying box.  Dress your flies astream. HOWEVER!  (Let us use a ‘Light Cahill’ Dry Fly as an example).  You pick one up astream and you note it and its color.  You might even take a picture of it.  Now its time to tie the fly . . . to match the hatch. If you pick a yellow that matches the fly with ‘a dry’ material, it will be lighter than when it gets wet.  As a test, you want to take a little GINK and see how much darker that dry yellow will become IF and WHEN it becomes WET.  You, more likely than not will choose a lighter shade of yellow that will darken to the correct shade AFTER you get to your fishing hole. Understand? This is one of the neater features of using GINK AT the Fly Tying Table.  Just use it as a test for each shade of fly you’re going to tie and use it without exception for every fly pattern you’ll tie in your fishing life.  It is THAT important. Hope this hint increases your ‘Matching the Hatch’ stategies. Sincerely, George Gehrke (Gink Keeps It Up!)

Understand! Ralph H

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George, Thanks for the match the hatch info.  This sounds like excellent advice, and I can’t wait to try it this spring. Vince

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First, Gink is not used as a dubbing wax and no, you don’t want to pre-treat your flies before you store them in your fly tying box.  Dress your flies astream.

Why not? What is the reasoning behind this? Thanks, Jack – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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First, Gink is not used as a dubbing wax and no, you don’t want to pre-treat your flies before you store them in your fly tying box.  Dress your flies astream. Why not? What is the reasoning behind this?

Perhaps because George would rather you bought his World Famous/Can’t Be Beat/Patent Pending Miracle Dubbing Wax instead? ;^)

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First, Gink is not used as a dubbing wax and no, you don’t want to pre-treat your flies before you store them in your fly tying box.  Dress your flies astream. Why not? What is the reasoning behind this? Perhaps because George would rather you bought his World Famous/Can’t Be Beat/Patent Pending Miracle Dubbing Wax instead? ;^)

Its hard being great and humble at the same time.  Yah, sure.  If you guys would have me believing that, I could also walk on water.  Not so. Seriously, GINK is not a dubbing wax.  It is not thick enough to grab dubbing and  help spin it around a fine thread.  And, since Fly-Maker’s Wax IS designed to do just that with the same, wonderful, put a smile on your face, finger sticking good, a little dab will do you . . . efficency, why not go for the whole Enchalata? Sincerely, George Gehrke Mr. Dubbs?

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Question:

If any one out there has mounted turkey tailfeathers in the fan position with the beard below, could you advise on how to remove the tail section (where to cut)? and how to preserve "set" the fan etc?

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If any one out there has mounted turkey tailfeathers in the fan position with the beard below, could you advise on how to remove the tail section (where to cut)? and how to preserve "set" the fan etc?

I have mounted several.  The easiest way is to buy a kit.  I bought a real nice one from Duns several years ago.  It had a solid Walnut plaque.  The only ones I can find in the catalogs now are press board with a laminate.  The kits come with all you need. With or without a kit, the first step is to cut off the tail along with about 6 inches of back skin and feathers.  Use a sharp knife to cut as much meat from the tail as you can without destabilizing the tail feathers.  Next you need some Borax.  It is hard to find.  I found some a Kmart several years ago.  A large box should last a lifetime. Be sure to get Borax not Boraxo (a combination of borax and soap).  Rub the borax into skin and any remaining meat.  A table spoon or two should be more than enough.  This acts as a preservative. The next step is to arrange the tail feathers.   Get a large cardboard box.  I use one of the large UHAUL moving boxes.  The box should be in its original flat form not folded into a box form.  Get a dozen or so nails.  Lay the box flat on the floor and put the tail on it.  Spread the feathers evenly to form a fan.  Use the nails like thumb tacks to hold the main tail feathers evenly apart.  Set this aside in a dry cool environment to set.  In a couple of weeks or less the tail will harden in the form you placed it in. Now, lets look at the beard.  When you pluck the bird, firmly but gently pull the beard from the breast.  It should come right off.  There are several ways to prep this for display.  My favorite is to use some heavy nylon thread (sewing store or fly fishing shop).  I like to wrap the top 1/4 inch of the beard with the thread.  You can tie the thread off neatly using the same technique bow mechanics use to finish a serving. You can find this technique in many archery magazines with pictures.  If you tie your own flies you probably are familiar with a Whip finish. This works fine as well.  I then coat the thread lightly with clear nail polish to help hold it in place.  Set this aside to dry. Now lets look at the spurs.  There are many techniques used to display these, but this is my favorite.  I use a hack saw to cross cut the leg just below and just above each spur.  Use a sharp knife to remove the scaly skin and any flesh from the bone.  Hot water helps.  Next I use a grinder or disc sander to flatten the sides of the bone and round the corners.  You want to end up with enough bone that is flat enough to drill a small hole through.  I usually buy a couple of gold colored brads from the hardware store.  Pick a drill bit slightly larger than the brads. If you get a kit, follow the directions for installing the pieces.  If not, you first want to make a shelf for the fan.  The dimensions depend on the size of your plaque.  Start with 1 x 1/2 x 6 inches.  Make a datto down the middle of the length of the shelf.  The datto should be about 1/2 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep.  This the dattoed side will be the bottom of the shelf.  Center the shelf from left to right on your plaque about 1/4 of the way down from the top.  Use screws through the back of the plaque to secure the shelf.  Next, set the fan on top of the shelf.  Use short drywall screws to screw through the base of the tail into the plaque.  Don’t worry about hiding the screws.  You will next make a half round cover plaque.  The flat side is the same length as the shelf.  The height at center is high enough to obscure the screws and ugly base of the tail.  This should be as thin as possible and can be any material you like.  It should be as thin as possible.  1/8 inch or less.  It is simply decorative.  You can use nice gold brads to secure it to the shelf.  You can put a picture or any decoration you want on the cover plaque.  Use three brads to secure the cover plate to the shelf.  You may want to drill slightly undersized holes for the brads. The center brad should be as long as the shelf is deep and centered on the shelf.  the height of all brads should be 1/2 of the depth of the datto. Next, insert the top of the beard into the center of the shelf datto. then insert the center brad through the cover plate, the front of the shelf, the beard, and the back of the shelf. Finally, position the spurs against the lower side of the main plaque on either side of the hanging beard.  Use two gold brads through the holes you drilled in the bone to secure the spurs. This is only one of many techniques. Enjoy, Jack

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Question:

I fly fish in Ontario for steelhead and but am going to be in British Columbia on some of the Fraser tributaries in a couple weeks.  I was wondering if someone could give me some insight into some common wet patterns and sizes.  Thanks in advance, Dan

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I fly fish in Ontario for steelhead and but am going to be in British Columbia on some of the Fraser tributaries in a couple weeks.  I was wondering if someone could give me some insight into some common wet patterns and sizes.  Thanks in advance, Dan

      The skunk is a hot one to try.

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Question:

The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Ditto.  I had more hookups while playing the game for 3 minutes than I’ve had on my previous 3-4 days on the McCloud.  Well, for $50, you don’t want to be skunked! Frank Holminski’s (sp?) response was that this game reflects the seasonal hatches and conditions you’ll encounter on this great river.  So, the buy the game and you shouldn’t have any zero-fish days — although I heard nothing about a money-back guarantee! I must admit, at the San Mateo show last weekend, whenever someone got a hookup, and you’d hear the ol’ reel scream through the PC speakers, that attracted more bystanders, as well as getting your adrenaline going!   For us Mac users, Frank says a Mac version may be developed later if they can get funding…my God, is not even flyfishing exempt from "vaporware"? Bill Uyeki

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Yeah, got sucked into it myself.  In fact, my buddy bought me a copy.  I don’t find it a problem to run it outside of windows.  Alt+M to lose the music.  Can’t wait for new fishing holes, and maybe some different tunes. Chatted the whole thing up with Frank H. while I was there.  Cool game. The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

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Many people think the Fly Fishing the McCloud River Game is CD ROM when they see it demonstrated. It is not but to get the great scans and animation that truly give the feel for dead driting an Adams or nymphing with a PT,  the game’s program uses approx 550 K of conventional memory while running.  This requires a memory mgt solution such as memmaker. The program is only 2.7 meg.  The game was the show stopper at the San Mateo ISO this past week, just ask Lefty DH

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Does anyone have any experience or comments about  this product?

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p because you need a config.sys with virtually nothing else configured for the program to run.  Once going, is challenging and fun.  Without sound, is hard to judge when fish are running.  Good luck.

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Question:

Anybody out in cyberspace have any info on Steelheading in S. Alaska, specifically Prince of Wales Island in the spring? I would like to do a budget, do it yourself type trip in May. If you have any info please Ken L.

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I have fished Prince of Wales Island several times in september for Silvers,           Chum,Pinks and Sockeyes. Thats the right time of the year for a trip, fly to Ketchican, rent a car from Alaska car rental at the airport and take the Aroura State Ferry to Hollis on Prince Wales Island, drive to the town of Craig and stay at Ruth Anns Hotel for $65 a night. The ferry price is $125 with car. The car rental is $40 a day, 14 day fishing licence is $30, buy it in Ketchican. There is 1200 miles of logging roads on the Island and a lot of rivers along the roads. Excellent Steel Head fishing. You can write to Tongrass National Forest for maps of roads and rivers and also info on where the steel head are in May. There are grocery stores and restaurants available. There are very few people fishing so you will not have to fight crowds. There are no Grizzly Bears but you will see a lot of Black Bears, they are safe. The trip can be done for a $1000 or less for 8-10 days, depending on air fare. Have a good trip!

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