Question:

I have noticed today that there are  some personal items of Gary LaFontaine up for auction. I know he is struggling with ALS (I believe) but I really hope that his family isn’t having to sell his personal possessions to meet medical costs associated with his illness. I don’t want to start a bitch session about HMOs and the like, but if this is the case it’s pretty bloody awful.

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I have noticed today that there are  some personal items of Gary LaFontaine up for auction. I know he is struggling with ALS (I believe) but I really hope that his family isn’t having to sell his personal possessions to meet medical costs associated with his illness. I don’t want to start a bitch session about HMOs and the like, but if this is the case it’s pretty bloody awful.

This is sad. There’s no cure for ALS and it’s a terrible, painful way to die. I recently read Gary’s book about fishing the high country lakes. I enjoyed it very much and recommend it highly. One thing that came across in the book was how much he loved the extreme physical exertion of that kind of fishing. I’d be honored to give one of Gary’s legendary fishing dogs a home, if it needs one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I read in the letters column of Flyfishing and Tying Journal that one of the publishers was hosting a fund for Gary.  I’ll try to pick up the address Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have noticed today that there are  some personal items of Gary LaFontaine up for auction. I know he is struggling with ALS (I believe) but I really hope that his family isn’t having to sell his personal possessions to meet medical costs associated with his illness. I don’t want to start a bitch session about HMOs and the like, but if this is the case it’s pretty bloody awful. This is sad. There’s no cure for ALS and it’s a terrible, painful way to die. I recently read Gary’s book about fishing the high country lakes. I enjoyed it very much and recommend it highly. One thing that came across in the book was how much he loved the extreme physical exertion of that kind of fishing. I’d be honored to give one of Gary’s legendary fishing dogs a home, if it needs one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

Anyone who know about a really good book about Clasic Salmonflies? Ole A Andreassen http://www.flyfishing-illustrated.com

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If you really want the classic book Try Geoge M. Kelson "The salmon fly" Dr T.E. Pryce, Tannatt "How to dress salmon flies Francis Francis "Book on angling" J.H. Hale "how to tie salmon flies William Blacker "The art of fly making" If you want more recent books on classic fly try Radencich Mikael Frodin Joseph Bates Ken Sawada Judith Dunham Paul Schmookler Poul Jorgensen Hope this help! Robert Mayrand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Nextra Public Access Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Anyone who know about a really good book about Clasic Salmonflies? Ole A Andreassen http://www.flyfishing-illustrated.com

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Question:

Assuming that you didn’t set the rod in a corner or leave it in its aluminum tube in your car, I’d say that it sounds like insufficient heat-treating of the bamboo.  (Is the rod a "blonde" bamboo or darker?)  I’d say you should contact the manufacturer. George

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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It is completly normal and is called a "fishing set" or just a "set". Ways to avoid them is to occasionally turn the rod over when fighting a fish and make sure the rod is dry before putting it back in the tube. If you want to correct it you can heat the section with a hair dryer and hold the section straight until it cools or go fishing and catch a few fish playing them with the rod turned 180 degrees. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue.

The first couple of rods I built have both shown a proclivity towards a tip set. I think it was a combination of three things (1) poor workmanship (i.e. insufficient heat treating), (2) excessively long sections–both rods were 5 feet long with no ferrule, and (3) improper storage–I live in a very humid climate and I did not take steps to make sure the rods were kept dry. Since then I’ve built several rods with improvements in all three of the above shortcomings. So far none of those rods is any less straight today that it was when it was new (which is to say in some cases that they didn’t start out arrow straight to begin with–but that’s another topic . Assuming you haven’t horsed fish in (and it sounds like you’ve been careful), I would see if the builder would be willing to restraighten the rod for you at his expense. It might not stay straight, but the builder’s reaction will tell you a lot. As Paul mentioned in a different reply, you can do it yourself using a hair dryer and gentle pressure in the opposite direction of the set. The bottom line: if I were one day to start making rods professionaly, I would consider a tip set after only a couple of careful uses (assuming the rod is being stored correctly) to be a shortcoming in my heat-treating technique. –Steve

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It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

_______  You may be too hasty here.  This is what you need to do.  Look at the tip closely and make sure it has a good varnish finish on it, protecting the rod from getting wet inside. Sets in bamboo fly rods can be caused the same way as with graphite. Setting it in an upright position leaning against a corner or wall or having a bend in the tip over a long period of time.  Heat in the summer, beating down on any fly rod can cause tips or rods to take a set. With bamboo Tom, if you’re satisfied the finish is well done and the fly rod is not wet inside,  you can do this.  Set a hair dryer up to blow hot air.  Heat that section of the fly rod gently until the rod gets not warm, but hot.  Yet, not hot enough to burn it.  Hot enough to make it pliable.  Simply remove from heat and torque the bend or set out into opposite direction and hold it there until rod cools.  All bamboo fly rods are straightened like this Tom.  A master fly rod maker can’t pick up a fly rod without tweaking it time and again until it is finally finished and ready for delivery.   The heat will soften the glue enough so it will move molecularly.  It makes no difference it your have a $7,000 Bamboo Fly Rod or a Production Line fly rod – they all will take sets sooner or later. Permit me to offer you some sage advice.  Store your tip tops of your tips to the top of your tube next to the cork handle.  Regarding the bag with a cord to wrap them with?  DON’T use them.  Simply insert the rod with sock loosely into the tube.  Always try and keep your bamboo fly rods laying flat or straight and apart over long periods of time.  If you make a mental error regarding your tips and you get a set because they got too hot in the sun when under car glass, etc.  You can now fix the problem yourself. If you are not sure, send it too me and I will fix it for you for nothing.  What brand fly rod  it is, isn’t important. — George Gehrke/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

Contact this web sit.  They may be able to answer your bamboo question.    http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Good luck. Joel Axelrad Joel Axelrad

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Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6#

Tom Ivens was not really a rod manufacturer but a well-known English angling writer (born 1922, author of Still Water Fly Fishing etc.)  Rods with his name are probably discussed in British magazines of the 1960s e.g. Trout and Salmon. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

Response:

While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

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The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

As well, one should consciously (and conscientiously) avoid applying prolonged unidirectional pressure on the tip section of your favorite cane rod, and rotate the rod about its long axis while playing in your catch (ie: half the time the reel should be below the rod, the other half it should be above). Awkward for certain, but every little bit will help keep your cane healthy and avoid the dreaded set. /dave

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

A set can happen for a lot of reasons, playing big fish or overlining the rod are but two fo them.  Leaning the rod in a corner, hanging it like a rifle, even the way the rod was made and the glue used could cause the tips or any section of the rod to take a set, especially if there was a weak flat in the section. As for two tips so that you can rotate them, well, that is partly true, but it very much depends on the rod.  A great many of the older, and even some newer rods are made with two tips to do various things.  Some had a Wet Fly action tip and a Dry Fly action tip.  Some were and are even produced to handle different line weights – say a 5 and a 7. As for bamboo losing power after a time, that happens after many years of fishing.  There is no need to rest a tip after a day of fishing. One other point about two tips comes up often, and that is that the second tip is an insurance policy against breakage.  Nice to have a spare tip when you are at a remote camp for a few days. Lastly, should a rod take a set, you can have it removed.  But chances are that the set will reapear in time.

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

Hi Wayne, Bamboo is an organic material which does soften up and wear out over time with hard use, but a few hours of casting is a bit of a stretch.  Also, because the material is no longer alive, It can’t repair itself or get stronger form resting.   The two tips were supplied because the tip  flexes the most and wears out the quickest. If you alternate the tips everytime you go out fishing it will typically take 50 years of hard fishing to soften them up to the point that you need to use a lighter line than the rod originally cast.  If you use the same tip all the time, it takes ~25 years of hard fishing to reach this point. this is a slow process and happens so gradually that the fly fisher rarely realizes it’s happened. It’s possible for the butt section to also soften up, but there is so much more material in the butt section, it is rare. Most people who used bamboo rods in their heyday, didn’t alternate the tips every time they went out.  They used one until they broke it (typically in a door of some kind)  and then used the other tip. If the rod was used a lot and fished with the same tip, using the other tip on makes the rod cast entirely differently.   When you look at such a rod, it’s usually pretty easy to determine which tip was used the most. Dependant upon what type of glue was used to make the rod, you can also put a set (or permanent bend) in the rod by fighting particulalry large fish for extended periods of time.  To counteract this, many who use bamboo rods will turn the rod over during the fight, and fight the fish with the reel above the rod instead of below it.  The idea was to even out the stress on the tip and keep it straight.  Still others will point to the set in their rod as a battle scar and saythings like, "You should have seen the fish that put that set in my rod — monster!!".  Most old, well used,  bamboo rods have some evidence of a set in them.  If the set gets bad enough to inhibit casting, it can be taken out with the judicious use of dry heat, preferably done by an experienced bamboo rod builder.                                  Hope this helps,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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The answer to both of your questions is YES…..

Along with Larry’s good advice, in using cane pay attention to the varnish and other details. If there are nicks and problems moisture can get in and delaminate it so touch it up with spar varnish.  If you hear clicking from a ferrule take care of it before it works loose and causes a break. When playing a good sized fish turn the rod around so it’s not always bending the same direction, to prevent putting a permanent bend in it. And never ever put it away damp.  It is better for it to be out in the rain overnight than in a damp cloth sleeve in a closed tube. I am gradually switching to cane for most of my fishing. I enjoy the slower pace of casting. I enjoy the more substantial heft of the solid cane in the light rods compared to hollow rods that feel weightless. Solid cane is more rugged than hollow graphite when you step on it. You feel the line load the rod and the way the rod springs back to fling it.  Someone spent as much time to make the rods as I had to work to pay for them.  You can buy great cane rods that collectors shun for $100-200 because maybe someone broke an inch off the tip or rewrapped them without regard for color matching. Friday I used an old 8 wt. Granger on the North Umpqua and caught a 10 lb. wild steelhead. That rod might be too heavy to cast all day but I sit and watch a river half the time anyway, the best technique of all for success and enjoyment. My modern reel backlashed so I had to play it by hand and hold tight when it tried to run. I should have used a pflueger.  The rod had backbone to spare. The smile will last for months, regardless of how the Raiders play. I am more hoping we can get the Oakland A’s back in a few years. Mark Vinsel Oakland, CA www.vinsel.com

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Sorry but I just have to comment on the Traitor Raiders. Don’t watch them anymore, don’t care. Let them move back to LA. When a team can fill the stands and the owner still moves them because of pure greed, that team should no longer be supported by those that care. Same thing should have happened to the Baltimore Colts when they moved. Although football teams are privately owned, they take on the name of the city where they play, it wasn’t the A. Davis Raiders, It was the Oakland Raiders, in using the name, they owe something to the city and fans that supported them so well Jerry in Lodi (close to Oakland) http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado — ——- Hope you always have time to go fishing, Jerry in Lodi      Al & Jerry’s Excellent Adventures           http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado     Member: Save Our Stripers          http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado/sos.htm

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Yes, bamboo requires a much slower stroke than graphite. A good caster adjusts to the rod instead of finding a rod that he can cast. There are no more REAL Raiders.  It’s like the old saying "you can’t go home again".  Al Davis really stuck it to the taxpayers of Alameda County and we didn’t even get a chance to vote on the money we are paying for the pleasure of watching them loose.  It looks like they are going to repeat their loosing performance again this year. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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Well when you reach my age the first thing to go is your memory and I forgot what the second thing is. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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As a follow-up question to the group: Is it realistic to expect to use a 30 to 70 year old bamboo  rod for day to day fishing.  Even if in otherwise good condition would the moisture loss and case hardening of bamboo occur as in wood to reduce flexibility and increase internal friction damage? Thanks to the group for the excellent information about bamboo. Was there a football team called Raiders? Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Larry, I remember Don Blanda, he used to fill in for Ken Stabler.  He was the oldest quarterback playing at that time, but normally was the Raiders place kicker.  Those were the good old days. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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I always thought the idea of two tips was that the tip is the most likely the section to get  broken. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time.

I can’t speak as to bamboo rods (mine having only one tip each, but not normally used continuously for more than a couple of hours) — but fibreglass rods seemed to become "fatigued" after a day’s continuous use.  I first noticed this in cold weather (air temp 30 to 40 deg. F.) fishing for Great Lakes steelhead with a Fenwick fibreglass rod about 1970.  It seemed important enough that when I got a second state-of-the-art glass rod I used to swap after 3 or 4 hours. This fatigue phenomenon has not been observed in graphite rods (Loomis and no-brand IM6.)  But then I have not for 20 years flogged the water continuously all day long when fishing for fall steelhead, being physically weaker and more experienced . . . . — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

  I am headed north of Anchorage next week toward Talkeetna.  Can anyone recommend a tackle shop for supplies and info for me along this route? Thanks. Elbert Bivins

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McAfee’s Fly Shop, Anchorage Mountain View Sports, Anchorage Valley Rod Shop, Wasilla Beyond that you can get some odds and ends stuff at most of the hardware, groceriy, and outdoor shops. In Talkeetna, Steve Mahay at Mahay’s Riverboat Service supports the fly fishing crowd and usually has some supplies. Always a good spot for info. You should also check out the Alaska Flyfishers web site at www.akflyfishers.org They have a flyfishing forum section where you can post questions and get answers to probably most of your questions. Lance Hankins I have nothing against Golf. I suspect it keeps legions of the Unworthy from discovering fly fishing… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I am headed north of Anchorage next week toward Talkeetna.  Can anyone recommend a tackle shop for supplies and info for me along this route? Thanks. Elbert Bivins

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Question:

EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE ORDERED HAS EVENTUALLY DIED.  I STOPPED BUYING FROM THEM SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

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A much cheaper way to get the Wayside catalog is to buy that little something from Parks Seeds. I’ve been getting both for several years now, even though I’ve never bought anything from Wayside. I’m not very likely to either, since their zone ratings are complete hogwash, and their offerings are much more tailored to their climate than mine. — Kay Cangemi New York, USDA zone 5

Thank you all for sparing me from Wayside! I found a nice big fat shrubby blue hibiscus at one of our local garden shops for $14.95 and I can find the asclepsis tuberosa ice ballet at the schlocky but usually ok places like Gurney’s or Jungs for 4 bucks. As for the clethra — the "plethra" of negative comments were validated Thanks to you all again. And Wayside, keep sending me those catalogs. They’re a great read! Judy VW Indy Zone 5 — Don’t like my driving? Call 1-800-BITE-ME.

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I’ll have to admit that many years ago, it was Wayside Gardens that really piqued my interest with their catalog.  Yes, they are quite pricy, but they also stand by everything they sell. However, if you want to spend the time to look around, you can find just about all the items available from smaller nurseries (plain paper catalogs, no pictures, etc) for a lot less. — Don Martinson "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method." – Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82

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I think Wayside is worth it just for the catalog, so I try to buy a "little something" from them every year, just to get the catalogs. However, they are completely overpriced!  Bluestone Perrenials also gets my vote. Kathleen Zone 6 – New Jersey

 I too think Wayside is way to high, and I have ordered from Bluestone Perennials every year. Bluestone gets my vote too. Mary Zone 5 St. Louis

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… since their zone ratings are complete hogwash, and their offerings are much more tailored to their climate than mine. — Kay Cangemi New York, USDA zone 5

  You had your chance when they were in Ohio.  Then I always had to subtract one (still do actually) for the southern limit of their zones. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I think Wayside is worth it just for the catalog, so I try to buy a "little something" from them every year, just to get the catalogs. However, they are completely overpriced!  Bluestone Perrenials also gets my vote. Kathleen Zone 6 – New Jersey

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I think Wayside is worth it just for the catalog, so I try to buy a "little something" from them every year, just to get the catalogs. However, they are completely overpriced!  Bluestone Perrenials also gets my vote.

A much cheaper way to get the Wayside catalog is to buy that little something from Parks Seeds. I’ve been getting both for several years now, even though I’ve never bought anything from Wayside. I’m not very likely to either, since their zone ratings are complete hogwash, and their offerings are much more tailored to their climate than mine. — Kay Cangemi New York, USDA zone 5

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Wayside used to be a good source.  I know their prices are outlandish, but the yr’s guarantee is a good perk.  This yr not only did it take Wayside more than 3 mos to get my order out, the quality was really poor.  Several items were backordered, and on some I’ve already requested refunds because they were dead or died soon after planting.  Don’t waste your money anymore on Wayside – try Bluestone Perennials. Linda Slusser – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about to take the plunge. They have a blue hibiscus, a vanilla scented butterfly weed and something called a clethra alnifolia rosea (aka:summersweet). But the prices — they are INSANE!!! So before I spend all my birthday bucks on overpriced dreck, please let me know yea or nay. Who here has ordered and what happened when you did? Is Thanx Judy Indy Zone 5 — Don’t like my driving? Call 1-800-BITE-ME.

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I’m about to take the plunge. They have a blue hibiscus, a vanilla scented butterfly weed and something called a clethra alnifolia rosea (aka:summersweet). But the prices — they are INSANE!!! So before I spend all my birthday bucks on overpriced dreck, please let me know yea or nay. Who here has ordered and what happened when you did? Is Thanx Judy Indy Zone 5 — Don’t like my driving? Call 1-800-BITE-ME.

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Question:

I posted a request for patterns a few weeks ago and I thank all of you who posted replies to this news group or by direct email. I am now searching for a good beginners book on steelheading. A friend as past me his "Advanced Fly Fishing For Steelhead" by Deke Meyer. But I think I should read about some of the basic also any information would be appreciated. Norm

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I posted a request for patterns a few weeks ago and I thank all of you who posted replies to this news group or by direct email. I am now searching for a good beginners book on steelheading. A friend as past me his "Advanced Fly Fishing For Steelhead" by Deke Meyer. But I think I should read about some of the basic also any information would be appreciated. Norm

The Deke Meyer book is a good one and the title is a bit misleading- it is advanced only in the sense it reviews most if not all the flyfishing methods employed primarily on the west coast – discussion of great lakes fishing is largely ignored. As Deke says in the intro the book was meant to follow Fly Road Steelhead by Bill Stinson that is a more general discussion of tackle and technique well salted with fishing yarns –  much of the tackle advice in that book is a bit dated. The other book is the original Steelhead Flyfishing by Trey Combs which I think is still available from Amato publications. Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

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I am now searching for a good beginners book on steelheading. A friend has passed me his "Advanced Fly Fishing For Steelhead" by Deke Meyer. But I think I should read about some of the basic also any information would be appreciated.

This is actually a good book for beginning steelheading since it covers the most fundamental technique, the wet fly swing.  Probably the best source of information for someone wanting to learn to fish for steelhead is the Scientific Anglers video called Fly Fishing for Pacific Steelhead.  Another good book was written by Bill McMillan and published in 1986.  The title is something like Dry Line Steelhead but it may be out of print.  Another good source of information is contained in the chapter on summer steelheading in John Shewey’s book called Northwest Flyfishing: Trout and Beyond.

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Question:

Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under : what conditions?  What do you like about it? Braided leaders are great for a lot of situations in fishing. The only problems with them are that there is a little of bit of built in stretch. The other is that the flyfisher can’t easily design and build a leader out of that stuff like he can with mono. I do use braided sinking leaders a lot, but I prefer mono for all my floating leaders because I like to tie my own the way I like them. Jon Porter

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I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.         If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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I meant to say, I do not like the way that a braided leader does NOT snake on the water,   oops : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m a dry fly  nut. I dont like the way a braided leader snakes on the water. It turns a fly over very nicely, but I feel you dont get  near as long of a drag free float as you do with a knotted leader of george Harvey’s or similar design.    If you nymph alot, I think they’re fine. It sure is easy to use, but for the most part, I don’t care much for braided leaders. Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

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Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind. I’m new to this group and I apologize if this has already been beat to death…

Braided leaders died in Nor Cal about 5 years ago. Fly fisherman here buy knotless mono tapered leaders. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Dan Garcia pretty much hit the nail on the head with braided leaders. I’m not a leader fiddler beyond the tippet size and length. I use braided leaders in two lengths for all of my dry fly fishing. It has worked from the Deschutes to Silver Creek for me. Braided leaders aren’t that great for deep nymphing, the line is much bigger in diameter than comparible mono. The one situation I use the braided leader is chironomid fishing on lakes. I hate the way strike indicators get in the way when landing a fish. So I tie on a beadhead chironomid on a 14+ foot leader and put a liberal amount of floatant on the first two feet of the braided butt section. The floating section is my strike indicator. For nymphing, I like to use hinged leaders, and I like to roll my own for that. –DBLHAUL–

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(Eric Mintz) writes: Which do you prefer, monofilament or braided leaders, and under what conditions?  What do you like about it? The reason I’m asking this question is that I’ve been going back and forth for years on it and I can’t seem to make up my mind.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both types of leaders. Braided leaders cast much better and more accurately than mono leaders due to the suppleness of the braid.  When using "normal leaders" as the loop gets to the  leader the loop opens up (sometimes a lot) because the leader is stiffer than the fly line.  Braided butt leaders don’t open up because they transfer the energy of the cast much more effectively due to their suppleness, and they allow better precision on "one shot" casts (such as those from a drift boat as you’re drifting downriver).  Because of their improved transfer of energy they allow you to cast longer leaders more easily.  12 foot leaders are a snap to cast with this type of leader. They also allow better drifts on the water because of this suppleness.  If you are fishing 6X & 7X tippets with a braided butt leader you will land more fish because the braid stretches quite a bit more than regular monofilament and is more forgiving of mistakes and sudden shock.  The braided section will last for years and all you have to do is replace the tips as you wear them out.  You can tie up your own tips to save money if you like.  The tip sections on the Orvis braided leaders taper within the first foot to the final tippet size.  You can add a straight 4 ft. section of 3X or 4X, but need to step it down to go to 5X or smaller if you tie up your own tip sections.  The loop to loop connections in the braid are clean and easy to use connections. But all is not rosy in paradise, and as is typical with flyfishing, you get something, you give something up.  All leaders will absorb enough water to sink into the surface film within about 10 minutes if not treated with fly floatant.  When they do, it not only makes mending the leader impossible, it causes leaders to spray water on the cast. The braided leaders do this is spades because all the little spaces between the braid will capture and hold water if not treated.  If you rub some paste floatant into it before you start fishing, no problem.  If you don’t, big problems.  Orvis now has some "floating" braided leaders that are impregnated with a substance that cures this problem but it is only available in 9 ft. lengths.  The braided section of the leader (the Orvis braided butt leaders have 4 ft. of tip section and the rest is a tapered braided butt) is not clear as mono is and may not be as subtle.  I believe the added suppleness and the improved drifts I get more than compensate for this myself, but there is a definite difference and you must be more careful about "lining" fish.  The biggest disadvantage with braided leaders is that you have fewer adjustment options on the stream.  They come in 7 1/2ft., 9ft., 12ft., and now 16 ft. lengths which will satisfy the requirements of most people, but if you like to fiddle with your leader design by changing the butt and the tippet design, you are out of luck.  You can easily make the tip section an additional foot longer or so, but that’s about it.  You can’t adjust the length of the butt section because you’d have to cut and splice the braid to do so. I would say that the braided leader offers a lot of advantages for most people, but if you like to tailor your leader to a specific purpose at a specific time, use the mono and become very good at tying knots.  I personally used the braided leaders for a number of years but have become one of those "leader fiddlers" and have gone back to mono because of the ability to cut off and/or add material at a moments notice which I probably do entirely too often, but I enjoy it so I do.                                 Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t

know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

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For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

all around knowledge ? Red Green gets my vote. Tim Walker

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How could you forget Lee Wulff, my favorite?

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writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

Lefty Kreh is one of the masters, but please, for "no frills" saltwater flies and fishing, my man is Lou Tabory!   —- "Just say no to bait"

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I just finished reviewing Jack Samson’s new biography of Lee Wullf. Super book. The review should be posted in the magazine early next week. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Check out the Fly & Field Website!  They have Dave Whitlock!  He is writing articles and fly recipes, and answering questions!  I am PSYCHED!!  If DW isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. I’ve been collecting his books and drawings for several years and I even got to meet him once at a fishing show in San Francisco.  He is the nicest person and his knowledge is so vast on so many topics of flyfishing it’s incredible.  I’m sorry if I sound like a blithering idiot, but this is too much.   The site is at http://www.flyfield.com/ but you can go straight to Dave at http://www.flyfield.com/dw2.htm.  They are also highlighting Davy Wotton. Does anybody know about him?  Apparently he is like the Dave Whitlock of Europe.  

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Question:

I’ve read that nylon pantyhose makes a great shuck imitation.   -Clyde

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I’ve read that nylon pantyhose makes a great shuck imitation.  

And, its great fun to watch them get taken off!

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I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a

Check Gary LaFoine’s book "The Dry Fly", in it he has a pattern called the Buzz Ball that is suppose to imitated a midge cluster on the surface like one would see on some back water on the San Juan or similar river. good luck Mark Powers Boston

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I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type?

I am wondering if a double tippet could be made to the midge a few inches from the shuck?   Put a hook in both if the trout cannot make up its mind.  Be interesting to see if the shuck or the midge get hit on most often. here a change to come up with a new pattern.  And we wonder where did they all come from.  :-)   Happy new year!

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The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those

 few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck… I use your typical Griffith’s Gnat tied w/ a small plume of grey CDC feathers as a tail to imitate the trailing shuck.

Yours virtually, Gary W. Godden Denver, Colorado

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type? I am wondering if a double tippet could be made to the midge a few inches from the shuck?   Put a hook in both if the trout cannot make up its mind.  Be interesting to see if the shuck or the midge get hit on most often. here a change to come up with a new pattern.  And we wonder where did they all come from.  :-)   Happy new year!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Out here in Colorado we use something called a Stuck-In -Shuck midge.  It’s a good slow-water fly on the South Platte where winter trout seem to sometimes prefer emerging midges over full adults. The dressing is simple.  The tail, or "shuck" is a few strands of brown antron, or Z-lon. the body is thread, or peacock.  A few strands of white antron, Z-lon, or poly are tied in at the butt, and pulled over the body. This should be a little on the loose side, creating a kind of bubble.  Some people put a couple wraps of grizzly hackle, trimmed top, and bottom in front for better floatation.  This fly should be dressed to let the fly float in the film. I don’t know who dreamt this fly up, but I think it’s a pretty good one! Chaz — Chaz Clover Fly Tier, Fly Design, Riverkeeper.

I fish the tiny spring creeks in WI and the best surface/film pattern that I have tried is nothing radical: Griffith’s Gnat. I tie it on a size 22 wide gap 1XF hook. Peacock Body (short flue, taken from near the butt rather than the eye) and Top Quality (Hoffman) Grizzly also short (no longer than to point). Fished on 6X tippet with silicon paste applied on 3 inches about 6 inches from the fly. this: a. keeps it on top, b. if you position yourself just right it acts a an indicator, and c. allows the fly to move naturally. I don’t apply floatant to the fly as it makes it ride too high causing for short hits. Quarter it upstream and dead drift. Good Luck.

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: I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my : pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even : semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a : pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry : on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment : of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface : (shuck may be in the film). : Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type? I do quite a bit of midge fishing, especially late in the season as it gets colder.  I’ve found that a #26 or 28 works very well for the large (but oh so rare) browns here in VT.  I don’t use a trailing shuck pattern, however.  I use a simple black or red thread body (no tail) with a grizzly, black, or cream hackle.  The red body is easy to spot, and it seems to work!  I rarely get refused with this pattern, and it’s very simple to tie.  In addition, it feeds my growing opinion that the presentation is (slightly?) more important than the fly choice (please, no flame wars on this one, both are important!)   I don’t usually fish this one blind, and not at long distances (usually about 20-25′).  I find that 7 or 8X tippets make sense, as well as a challenge for a big fish. Hans

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I’m a lover of spring creek midge fishing.  While I’m doing well on my pupae, I still can’t find a dry pattern that will consistently (or even semi-regularly) fool the surface sippers..  The thing I’m looking for is a pattern that imitates  the midge during those few seconds that it sits dry on the surface, but is still attached to the shuck…apparently the moment of greatest vulnerability.  Both the midge and the shuck or on the surface (shuck may be in the film). Anyone had good luck with a pattern of this type?

Response:

Out here in Colorado we use something called a Stuck-In -Shuck midge.  It’s a good slow-water fly on the South Platte where winter trout seem to sometimes prefer emerging midges over full adults. The dressing is simple.  The tail, or "shuck" is a few strands of brown antron, or Z-lon. the body is thread, or peacock.  A few strands of white antron, Z-lon, or poly are tied in at the butt, and pulled over the body. This should be a little on the loose side, creating a kind of bubble.  Some people put a couple wraps of grizzly hackle, trimmed top, and bottom in front for better floatation.  This fly should be dressed to let the fly float in the film. I don’t know who dreamt this fly up, but I think it’s a pretty good one! Chaz — Chaz Clover Fly Tier, Fly Design, Riverkeeper.

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Question:

I just got back from a two week vacation to the Bighorn & the Henry’s Fork.  The fishing was great! The Bighorn: Running at twice the volume that I’ve ever fished it before.  My objective was to put my girls into large rainbows and browns.  With the high water there places for them to wade on the right side looking downstream were extremely difficult.   BTW the volume flow was 6500 cfs.  I took the girls out with Frank Johnson from the Bighorn Trout Shop the first day.  The girls both caught Brown’s to 18 inches.  The long line releases ran about 5:1, but they did great under difficult conditions.  The nice gravel bars I expected them to be able to put them on were either four feet under water or completely washed out.  Many of my favorite dry fly areas (side channels and backwaters were completely washed out, never to be seen again).  Lets hear it for the DWR.  Frank feels that in ten to twenty years of the current mismanagement the bighorn will be a nice smooth irrigation ditch with no character. The next two days I took the oars and really enjoyed myself.  My twelve year old took a twenty-one inch rainbow male on the second day.  The fishing was good but not what I really like (too much lead). Henry’s Fork (July 3 thru July 9):  The weather turned cold and wet.  Sleet, hail and snow at higher elevations.  The only warm weather was on Thursday my last day. July 3: Fished the Fire Hole in wet cold weather.  Lots of PMD’s comming off, but not profusely.  Lot’s of small fish raising all over on the PMD’s. A few big fish were porposing regularily.  Looking closer I noticed Baetis were hatching and the big guys were keyed into the size 18 & 20’s.  I fished downstream with dry baetis emerger and had a ball with fish to 16 inches. Everyone else in my area was using the larger PMD’s and catching dinks. The rest of the trip I fished the Fork, concentrating on the Ranch.  Great hatches and great dry fly fishing.  At on point below the Osborn bridge there were five insect hatches in progress (micro caddis, evening caddis – size 18, large Caddis with speckled wings, PMD’s and Flav’s).  The fish keyed into different hatches as the light conditions changed. I’ll get on my soap box for a second.  The Fork is still a mighty sick river.  Lot’s of silt and Brown Drakes in the Millionaires Pool area where I remember only gravel.  Also a lot of the fish in the river a lake fish from the Res. that was drained last year.  You know immediately when you have a river fish, they jump 3 or 4 times and take you into your backing immediately.  The trout from the lake are much less robust.  The increase in trout numbers is great for the outfitters, but I miss the quality.  I missed having my clock cleaned by big trout on the Ranch, ripping line and rubbing me off in a weed bed.  The trout have to win sometimes to make it interesting. My only regret was that I had to leave without a spinner fall.   It was just too cold in the evenings, except for last Thursday.  I spent a beautiful evening on the ranch waiting for spinners and had to settle for a Brown Drake hatch.  The big trout were up for about thirty minutes before the White fish moved in and the trout were gone. It’s always fun  to spend the evening in Church (The Ranch)! If you want some great guides for the Ranch I’d recommend  Mate (The last name escapes me, if I ever knew it), who guides for Mike Lawson’s Henry’s Fork Anglers at last chance.

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I forgot to mention that the area from the end of the Box to the Ranch was fishing great on drys (Caddis, PMD’s and Flav.’s).   Fish to raisers, don’t just cover water.  

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