Question:

That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

Jeff, I’d read it earlier and still have it.  At the raffle I won something that I didn’t want and then IJ made some kind of fast trade with me for something that I wanted even less.  The raffle was excellent by the way. bruce h

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

OK, I changed the order again. Damn these compiles are taking forever tonight!

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

"Re-gifter"?  ;-)

Response:

Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

I just finished reading "Reading the Water" by Dave Hughes. I felt it would have been a better book with a few less words and a few more illustrations to illustrate what he was talking about. It was enjoyable reading though. HTH, Russell Thinkin’ RockTrout won’t be changin’ his order for this one.

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. That was my raffle prize – did you win it? "Re-gifter"?  ;-)

No no, I bought it new for the raffle.  There were interviews with guys like Mike Lawson, which seemed appropriate for the Henry’s Fork Clave.

Response:

I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books. The book was originally printed under a separate publisher.  On recent printings, it’s being published by Orvis, as part of their "library" of fishing books.  He also wrote a book on reading the water which might be better than Hughes’ by the way, simply because it has more and bigger pictures, and pictures are important for learning how to read water.

Alright Jeff, you talked me into getting the book.  I also decided to pick up 3 others….:)  All on sale right now at Amazon with free shipping!

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. bruce h currently enjoying "The River Why"

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

Me too. Lots of good tidbits in that book. I thought that the author could do a whole series of books. It would be easy, just interview some more guides. Willi

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

Response:

Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

Response:

Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books.  He also grew up in my neck of the woods, and comes to visit from time to time. The book is mainly about how to fish when the dry fly fishing is off, i.e., how to approach a stream when you don’t see any fish rising, and you don’t know much about the water.  I think its a very good book. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books.

The book was originally printed under a separate publisher.  On recent printings, it’s being published by Orvis, as part of their "library" of fishing books.  He also wrote a book on reading the water which might be better than Hughes’ by the way, simply because it has more and bigger pictures, and pictures are important for learning how to read water. The book is mainly about how to fish when the dry fly fishing is off, i.e., how to approach a stream when you don’t see any fish rising, and you don’t know much about the water.  I think its a very good book.

When you don’t see fish rising, but not necessarily when dry fly fishing is off!  Agreed, it’s very good for quickly sizing up water that you’ve never seen before – highly recommended.

Response:

Question:

Go to Cabelas.  They have a number of low priced rods that will fit you needs.  I have heard many good comments on them here and elsewhere. Crusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally would go on ebay and buy an old fiberglass rod. They cast dang near the same as bamboo, and cost a little less. Bamboo is an option to. It seems most graphite rods are all to well into fast action and all. I think this takes away from presentation. The old bamboos and fiberglass rods are great. I’ve been fishing an old heddon pal allot these days, with a #5DT. It’s probably the best small stream fly rod I own. I think I paid 40 bucks for it on ebay. — Tim Apple www.flyfishingaddict.com Hey All, I currently own a fairly fast action 9′ 6 wt rod that is too over-powered to manage a consistently delicate presentation with short casts on smaller trout streams.  In response to this problem, I’ve been wondering about a 4-piece 4 wt rod that is as affordable as possible.  I’m one of those very low budget fly fishers.  I’m open to all suggestions for rods, as well as retailers online.  Also, a thoughtful explanation for your recommendation would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Response:

Hey All, I currently own a fairly fast action 9′ 6 wt rod that is too over-powered to manage a consistently delicate presentation with short casts on smaller trout streams.  In response to this problem, I’ve been wondering about a 4-piece 4 wt rod that is as affordable as possible.  I’m one of those very low budget fly fishers.  I’m open to all suggestions for rods, as well as retailers online.  Also, a thoughtful explanation for your recommendation would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Do I smell a troll? Russell Just wondering.

Response:

I personally would go on ebay and buy an old fiberglass rod. They cast dang near the same as bamboo, and cost a little less. Bamboo is an option to. It seems most graphite rods are all to well into fast action and all. I think this takes away from presentation. The old bamboos and fiberglass rods are great. I’ve been fishing an old heddon pal allot these days, with a #5DT. It’s probably the best small stream fly rod I own. I think I paid 40 bucks for it on ebay. — Tim Apple www.flyfishingaddict.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I currently own a fairly fast action 9′ 6 wt rod that is too over-powered to manage a consistently delicate presentation with short casts on smaller trout streams.  In response to this problem, I’ve been wondering about a 4-piece 4 wt rod that is as affordable as possible.  I’m one of those very low budget fly fishers.  I’m open to all suggestions for rods, as well as retailers online.  Also, a thoughtful explanation for your recommendation would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Response:

Hey All, I currently own a fairly fast action 9′ 6 wt rod that is too over-powered to manage a consistently delicate presentation with short casts on smaller trout streams.  In response to this problem, I’ve been wondering about a 4-piece 4 wt rod that is as affordable as possible.  I’m one of those very low budget fly fishers.  I’m open to all suggestions for rods, as well as retailers online.  Also, a thoughtful explanation for your recommendation would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Response:

Question:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick.

of course, you don’t live in washington state and have to watch the local s(news)…. this is all we’ve been hearing about and what we’ll be hearing about til the next disaster <G. i’m glad they’re back…. but i’d like to see the media give them a little bit of a break so they can have some real private time with their families and loved ones. chris

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Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? I only say this because you seem to have such disdain for the military. I think I understand your disgust with the overdramatization in which military people attribute to their jobs….I did a 6 year stint in the Navy myself, and enjoyed it, but I find that too often fellow vets are just too quick to point out the fact that they served. It’s almost like they’re rubbing it in others’ faces. I have followed the plight of the aircrew held in China with some interest. I feel that the government/military is making way too big a deal of this, for publicity’s sake, than should be. All that said…I do respect the simple fact that being hel captive in a foreign communist country, no matter what the accomodations (in this case very plush) and treatment, would be a scary and dangerous situation to be in (history tells us this). For that, sure, let’s have a parade and welcome these folks home (especially if they were able to destroy any sensitive equipment on that plane before it went down).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave Dave

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Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam?

Uhh, Mark,  Dave is a retired Navy Chief, a career military man who is justifiably proud of his service. Ken is the one who wrote the anti military diatribe. You really need to follow these threads a little more carefully before replying, or else get some asbestos skivvies to protect you from the flames.  Just a little friendly advice. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Ahhh…my apologies for my mistaken left-click, especially to Dave.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? Uhh, Mark,  Dave is a retired Navy Chief, a career military man who is justifiably proud of his service. Ken is the one who wrote the anti military diatribe. You really need to follow these threads a little more carefully before replying, or else get some asbestos skivvies to protect you from the flames.  Just a little friendly advice. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? I only say this because you seem to have such disdain for the military.

Wow, whatever you are smokin is worth every damn nickel you paid! Wolfgang and doubtless dave would love to share it      :)

Response:

… This is a welcome home for a group of Americans …

And much ado about nothing in my book.  … He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.          Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret)

He and many of you can express your collective sighs elsewhere as far as I’m concerned, Frank. And I’m not impressed by alphabet soup after a man’s name. My younger brother was in the Marine Corps for twenty years, I’m not completely unfamiliar with things military. The military is a necessary evil not a sacred cow and I’m far more impressed with the guy who teaches inner city kids to read than I am with the guy flying spy planes off the coast of China. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken,     How ’bout teaching English and math to kids inter-battle zone in Bosnia, where there is a cleared path in the minefield to get to the old warehouse to teach?  How ’bout doing this for free?     How ’bout whole National Guard units that volunteer as a group to drop their jobs and run off to Central America to spend their days humpin sacks of flour to help hurricane victims?     How ’bout spending four nights a week and all day Saturday teaching English, math and biology to Korean orphans who are ostracized because they don’t have parents?  The tutors won’t help, the city won’t help, their own teachers won’t help.  Again, done free, for a year, gratis.  Person’s boss didn’t even know about it.     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members. The U.S. military is second only to firefighters in time spent doing volunteer work.  In a lot of towns, those firefighters are military.  You profess to understand the military.  I won’t gainsay that.  Why do you join an organization of computer proffesionals?  Could it be that you identify with those who share your understanding of nibbles and bytes?  We, those former military members, identify with the sacrifices that those currently in the military endure.  The funny thing about military folks is that they often blend in with the scenery.  The are members of ACM, ROFF, but they still identify with their common core of experience in the military.  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend.     You, as computer professional, should understand that the U.S. military is not a necessary evil.  It is also not a sacred cow.  It is not that one-dimensional.  However, to trivialize 2.6 million folks to the status of necessary evil is, in and of itself, pretty one dimensional.  It is a group of folks as important as your local fire and police department.  Wherever they go, they try to do some good.  It’s their nature.  They, as a group, will all tell you that they abhor the combat side of their jobs, because, to them, if they have to fight, they’ve failed at peace keeping.     I tell you what, take a group of military folks and ask them to raise their hands if they’ve ever fired a weapon in combat.   Very few hands.  Now ask them if they’ve done 10 or more hours of volunteer work in the last 2 months.  Now ask your computer professional friends if they’ve done 10 or more hours of volunteer work in the last two months.  Hey, it takes a village.  Some of us, i.e. the military have lived in that village all our lives, where others are wandering around screaming that some one should build them one.       Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He and many of you can express your collective sighs elsewhere as far as I’m concerned, Frank. And I’m not impressed by alphabet soup after a man’s name. My younger brother was in the Marine Corps for twenty years, I’m not completely unfamiliar with things military. The military is a necessary evil not a sacred cow and I’m far more impressed with the guy who teaches inner city kids to read than I am with the guy flying spy planes off the coast of China. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

…     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members.

And two members of the US military raped a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl. Pretty useless to trade these examples, I’ll concede that there are both really nice folks and some of the scum of the earth serving in the military. …  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend.

include their email address in their .sig, but if you find it untoward Please remember that this is an international forum and excessive chest thumping by the military regardless of nationality is most unseemly. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken,      All’s I’m trying to say is that military members are a group of human beings, like educators, like computer professionals.  That’s not chest thumping.  As you said, there are good and bad in every group.  I don’t trivialize any group of people.  To do so is to trivialize all.  To denigrate the work of a group of folks because they are in the military is very small minded.     Oh, by the way, the U.S. is not the only country that has a military. And, oh, by the way, in many countries, the military is a highly respected profession.  Unfortunately, it is mostly in those industrialized nations that have the freedom and wherewithal to be able to afford the time and the money to sit at computers or fly fish.  Wonder if there is a connection there?  Yes, this is an international forum, maybe over the years, you will expand your narrow views to match it.  Now thats chest thumping.     I may not change your mind, but I can try to change your perspective.         Frank

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members. And two members of the US military raped a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl. Pretty useless to trade these examples, I’ll concede that there are both really nice folks and some of the scum of the earth serving in the military. …  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend. include their email address in their .sig, but if you find it untoward Please remember that this is an international forum and excessive chest thumping by the military regardless of nationality is most unseemly. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

…  I don’t trivialize any group of people.  

To call the military a necessary evil is not to trivialize it, by definition necessary is not trivial.     Oh, by the way, the U.S. is not the only country that has a military.

Exactly the point, Frank. To hear some tell it all US actions are noble, honorable and professional and all US military personnel heroes while the only human being to have actually died in this regrettable incident is a "hotdog" who deserved to die. Now that’s jingoism. … Yes, this is an international forum, maybe over the years, you will expand your narrow views to match it.  Now thats chest thumping.     I may not change your mind, but I can try to change your perspective.

Thump away, my friend, but I think my perspective is just fine and the chances of you changing it are nil. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: To hear some tell it all US actions are noble, honorable and professional and all US military personnel heroes while the only human being to have actually died in this regrettable incident is a "hotdog" who deserved to die. Now that’s jingoism.

If you saw film of previous flights by Chicoms harassing *legal* flights, you would ulnderstand why the Chicom died.  He "deserved" to die simply because he was harassing another aircraft in international waters when he should not have.  No jingoism or chauvinism involved.  Poor judgement, poor driving skills, lack of common sense, and unnecessary aggression caused his death, and damn near cause the death of *our* aircremen.   As far as this not belonging on roff:  well, it seems like you and only you get to pick roffs contents?  Like "native American" crap and "squaw" crap and other politically correct crap.  As long as the religious and patriotic intolerant Fortenberry says so, it must be so!  Bullshit!  See my hat.  And, MY brother was in the marines too.  What does *that* have to do with anything? Dave

Response:

Ken Whats the fucking big deal? They are American Navy people. They were being held by a foreign power. They got to survive and come home. The West Sound is very Navy. People here care a lot about these things. So they threw a big Welcome home party. The Pacific is a big Ocean – 6 hours from the HI, so when they were 40 minutes out I posted that. Now maybe the desire to celebrate this small victory locally is partly to counter the many recent unfortunate happenings in WA like the Earthquake, the loss of a large fishing crew in the Bering sea last week, Boeing, etc etc. But I think people were genuine in their appreciation for these young people. As for the politics of it – you know that my politics are relatively progressive for this forum. No one would ever mistake me for a conservative. But you also know that I save my strongest disdain for ideology and ideologues right and left. And all know that I loath Bush, still support McCain, think Rumsfeld is dangerous, and am thankful that Powell is there to moderate things, and because of his caution borne of his combat experience. You feeling anti-war? Got anything to say about the Israeli Army abuse of Arab civilians? How about dual citizenship "Americans" called up as IDF reservists for a few weeks of fun in Gaza? Feel like a crusade? I understand there is a boatload of child slaves missing off Benin. Or maybe a little looksee at the status of foreign household domestics in Chambama might be needed. Teaching reading in the inner city? You do not know that probably the largest inner city volunteer tutoring programs are operated by the military. Most ships have such programs. The military is also far ahead of the rest of the country on affirmative action, family involvement and responsibility in the schools, family leave and support, universal medical coverage, equal opportunity, environmental stewardship and a few others. Like my rightwing nemesis, you assume too much. My point being that pissing on a Welcome Home party for some GIs in WA, doesn’t fulfill the monthly dues assignment for even our most peripatetic Naderite. Lighten up. You get the last word if you want it. Dave

Response:

Ken, Is your life a piece of shit? I don’t believe it is. Do you? I believe you are a precious and utterly unique thing, and so am I, along with everybody else. Bottom line: My personal understanding is that people died so I could sit here at this keyboard and type whatever I want. I am grateful for those who have died, and to those who put themselves at risk for this country. I’m happy to see these kids come home and proud of the way they handled their situation. If that’s chest thumping, I’m going to thump my chest every chance I get. You can call it unseemly, call it any fucking thing you want. But ingratitude is worse than unseemly, it’s dishonorable. LR

Response:

…  He "deserved" to die simply because he was harassing another aircraft in international waters when he should not have.

He was no doubt under orders to harass the spy plane just as an American "hotdog" would be under orders to harass a Chinese spy plane in international waters off the coast of California. I doubt you’d be so cavalier about the death of an American aviator. As far as this not belonging on roff:  well, it seems like you and only you get to pick roffs contents?  

I don’t pick contents, but if I see something that makes this place an uncomfortable place for me or for others who want to discuss flyfishing I’ll either ignore it or bitch about it as I see fit. I suggest you do the same. … And, MY brother was in the marines too.  What does *that* have to do with anything?

Only that I’m not totally unsympathetic to career military. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Whats the fucking big deal? They are American Navy people. …

No big deal, I’m just tired of all the hoop-de-la and the bloodlust was just starting to taper off on ROFF when you had to go and bring the damn thing up again. And believe it or not, not every flyfisherman in the world gives a flying fuck about the American Navy. — Ken Fortenberry

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… But ingratitude is worse than unseemly, it’s dishonorable.

Worship the military if that’s your wont, but calling folks dishonorable is no way find a fishing partner. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Take it any way you want. I didn’t call you dishonorable, but your behavior is. Enough dishonorable behavior and I may eventually judge you as dishonorable, but it’ll take a long time for me to feel that way about you. Since I took you to task publicly, I apologize in public for doing so. I should have emailed you.

Response:

… Since I took you to task publicly, I apologize in public for doing so. I should have emailed you.

No problem, Lennie. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken,    According to Websters, a jingo is a person who boasts of his patriotism and favors an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.  You are totally missing the point.  This is a welcome home for a group of Americans that was held captive after making an emergency landing at a foreign airfield.  Would we have accepted this kind of treatment if this had been an airliner full of civilians, held by a foreign power after such an emergency landing?  Because they are military, should we not welcome them home?    It is not "jingoistic" to feel proud of a group of people who have been through a difficult ordeal, handled it with professionalism and returned home with honor.  Their job?  Ensuring that we are not suprised by an unforseen hostile act.  If we can find out about what is going on, then mayhaps we can PREVENT an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.    Neither is it jingoistic to be saddened by the deaths of American and Vietnamese service men in Vietnam, years after the end of the war.  Their job?  Bringing closure to the families who lost love ones in that war.    I’ve watched both of these incidents unfold over the last few days. They hit home.  I was an Air Force linguist and intelligence analyst. These are some of the brightest and hardest working folks in the military.  Their IQs average in the top 10 percent.  It takes over 1 1/2 years in school, 8 hours a day with six hours of homework to even sit in the seat.  Then there is another year and a half of qualification on-the-job.  The washout rate is as high as 60%.    It is a very tight knit community. They are called "purple suiters" (the color of blue, green, and black uniforms combined) as they are the most "joint" job in the military. The mix of this crew is indicative of this "jointness."  They do their wartime job day in and out with life and death decisions in their hands.  99% boredom, 1% stark raving terror.  For this they make about $20,000 a year.    I was at the Defense Language Institute at the same time as one of those guys on the MI-8.  One of my coworkers was his roommate.  We are heartened and glad that the EP-3 incident did not end in the same way.  We are relieved that they’ve returned home.  We are welcoming them home as a nation, as you would welcome an old friend into your home for Thanksgiving.    Ken, Dave was not expressing "jingoistic melodrama."  He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.         Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret)

Well said Frank, I think only those of us who have known the military as "family" for a goodly portion of our lives can really appreciate what the Whidbey Island folks felt today, it is a special bond that is still with me 31 yrs after retirement from the USAF.  I also believe that *most* Americans celebrate with us. Frank Church, TSgt, USAF (Ret)

Response:

Ken,     According to Websters, a jingo is a person who boasts of his patriotism and favors an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.  You are totally missing the point.  This is a welcome home for a group of Americans that was held captive after making an emergency landing at a foreign airfield.  Would we have accepted this kind of treatment if this had been an airliner full of civilians, held by a foreign power after such an emergency landing?  Because they are military, should we not welcome them home?     It is not "jingoistic" to feel proud of a group of people who have been through a difficult ordeal, handled it with professionalism and returned home with honor.  Their job?  Ensuring that we are not suprised by an unforseen hostile act.  If we can find out about what is going on, then mayhaps we can PREVENT an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.     Neither is it jingoistic to be saddened by the deaths of American and Vietnamese service men in Vietnam, years after the end of the war.  Their job?  Bringing closure to the families who lost love ones in that war.     I’ve watched both of these incidents unfold over the last few days. They hit home.  I was an Air Force linguist and intelligence analyst.  These are some of the brightest and hardest working folks in the military.  Their IQs average in the top 10 percent.  It takes over 1 1/2 years in school, 8 hours a day with six hours of homework to even sit in the seat.  Then there is another year and a half of qualification on-the-job.  The washout rate is as high as 60%.     It is a very tight knit community. They are called "purple suiters" (the color of blue, green, and black uniforms combined) as they are the most "joint" job in the military. The mix of this crew is indicative of this "jointness."  They do their wartime job day in and out with life and death decisions in their hands.  99% boredom, 1% stark raving terror.  For this they make about $20,000 a year.     I was at the Defense Language Institute at the same time as one of those guys on the MI-8.  One of my coworkers was his roommate.  We are heartened and glad that the EP-3 incident did not end in the same way.  We are relieved that they’ve returned home.  We are welcoming them home as a nation, as you would welcome an old friend into your home for Thanksgiving.     Ken, Dave was not expressing "jingoistic melodrama."  He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.          Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS. You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick.

I can be insufferable without any help whatsoever from the United States Navy, thank you very much. Glad you enjoyed the TV show, Louie, now let’s hip-hip, hup-hup and go kill some Commies for the Gipper. Sheesh, take this crap somewhere where the coarser elements of our society gather to wallow in their ignorance, it has no place on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS. dave

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They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS.

You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama.

After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave Dave

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave

AMEN! — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

Response:

Question:

<SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about.

<SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I look at it a little different.  Yes, I was one of the more loud voices. However, I don’t believe anyone wanted FAOL to disappear.  I know I didn’t. Additionally, they don’t have to.  No one’s asking for that.  FAOL is a good web-site that has a lot of good information on it.  We only wanted the last article from Rupe removed.  That’s all.  It was a moral issue.  We took action regarding a possible resolution.  The longer FAOL resisted the more public anger grew.  That’s just normal. Now that the life of FAOL is in question, it’s like dancing on a dying friend.  I don’t see any glory or pride in this.  Furthermore, it’s not necessary.  With the new information about the possible demise of FAOL, the continued debate that has no resolution becomes meaningless.  If a resolution was possible, that would be different because the debate would have purpose.  There is no resolution and there will never be a resolution to the continued treads.  I then ask, why do the threads continuing?  What does everyone want from continuing the debate? Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat. Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

Take it easy, Vern. We’ve had similar blow-ups here before, but eventually everyone chills out… About a week ago – at least a couple of days before Mike’s first post wrt RAOL, I responded to someone (I think it was Jon Cook) that the extended period of Peace On ROFF "was just the calm before the next storm". I had no idea I’d be THAT correct! /daytripper (ROFF is cyclical ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat.  Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

snip<

No sweat, Vern.   This is just one of those discussions that helps bring another dimension to the faceless names here.   Nobody really gets too pissed off, and we get to learn a little bit about each other.   It’s not really a bad thing; it’s what we seem to be.   And after it’s over, we’re still friends (mostly <g).   Nobody would put any of this ahead of a day on the water.   Aside from a waste of bandwidth, it’s harmless, and sometimes fun. Joe F.

Response:

In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t

look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.< As I said initially, I was out of town, missed the start.   Hmmm, Vern, eh?   Should I start all over again?  <g

Response:

Ah, yes, fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. <SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

You’re my man, Ken. I got your back.

Ditto.  In spades.

Response:

To Debate is interesting and often educational, to Argue, name call and belittle is not…

Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.      

Response:

Wolfgang the bully, writes:

<<Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.       Boy, I’m glad you did tell ol Jim to BMAIAL.  I have that one.  Even use it in my address for anti-spam.  Don’t know what I would do without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

David, This is so off the mark that I really got a good laugh out of your post.  One thing I have never been accused of is to be a closet anything, or to hide behind anyone.  My wife would really get a kick out of this (BG).  We have a good friend living on Bainbridge Island, and my impression of the place is that a lot of spoiled aging yuppies lived there.  I’m afraid that you have reinforced that image in my mind. Ken, I expected more from someone with an edu address.  "Frogboy"??  (LOL).  I guess it fits that the edu address goes with living in a very sheltered environment. You want to use the word fuckin and you have to use ***’s??  As far as hard-earned flyfishing dollars, you should try to make your living in the real world (G). Kermit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Oh they take it seriously. They’re the closet racist’s who provide a respectable chorus line to guys like Rupe, and love to hide behind well meaning folks who honestly wonder where the free speech line is, or who are honest political conservatives. The dead giveaway is that they have no bottom line. Ive run into them before here in the NW,  home of the Aryan Nations. They know that murderous remarks like Rupe’s are important because they intimidate minorities from participation in many activities and forums. Its very effective and a lot less risky that acting out their bullshit at work, bombing a church or killing someone on a dark road. They are gutless. They are wacko’s. But they are not stupid. Dave I am bothered by the article, but I would not have taken it seriously anyway.  But I am much more bothered by the pc mob mentality that I witnessed here.  I don’t feel that there is anything to be very proud off here. Blow it out yer ass, frogboy. Just because you’re too f***in’ stupid to take seriously the most vile and vicious racial epithet that can be hurled at Native Americans is no reason to demean the many good people of ROFF that are QUITE proud that this little piece of racist garbage is no longer sponsored by good companies competing for our hard earned flyfishing dollars. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now I just have to figure out how to suspend a reference line over my head next time out on the pond or a lake… Michael Era

Question:

The old needle nose pliers work fine for #14 and larger hooks … but for the small stuff … like #20’s … need something else … what tools are being used for this purpose by the tiers out there …. John

Response:

John, I have a pair of miniature needle nose pliers which I keep in my fly tying box for this purpose.  I bend the barb down before tying the fly because some times the hook breaks.  When on the stream I use my forceps.  Keep the hook near the hinges so you have enough leverage. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The old needle nose pliers work fine for #14 and larger hooks … but for the small stuff … like #20’s … need something else … what tools are being used for this purpose by the tiers out there …. John

Response:

John- Try going to an electronics shop or a hobby/craft store and buy a pair of smooth jawed needlenose pliers with the spring between the handles to hold the jaws open. Larry #:)#

Response:

: The old needle nose pliers work fine for #14 and larger hooks … but for : the small stuff … like #20’s … need something else … what tools are : being used for this purpose by the tiers out there …. John : : A medium or small set of hemostats works fine for most sizes of hooks. For some of the Japanese hooks with very small barbs, you can use a hook hone or file.  For big hooks I use a set of miniature channel locks, also sold by Sears as ignition pliers.  They’re especially useful on Bass Bug hooks and the large offset shank hooks used for Texas rigging worms and grubs. And they are much more useful than needle nose pliers for small nuts and bolts or straightening buzzbait and spinnerbait wires, unclamping sinkers, or fixing the motor. BG

Response:

If only the manufacturers were willing to make a far better selection of barbless hooks, then perhaps this wouldn’t even be an issue. I’m often disappointed at the lack of barbless hooks available our local shops. RG : The old needle nose pliers work fine for #14 and larger hooks … but for : the small stuff … like #20’s … need something else … what tools are : being used for this purpose by the tiers out there …. John

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Greetings, John : : The old needle nose pliers work fine for #14 and larger hooks … but for : the small stuff … like #20’s … need something else … what tools are : being used for this purpose by the tiers out there …. John

  You might go to your friendly neighborhood jewelry store and ask them to order you a pair of really smooth, well-aligned jewelers needle-nose pliers.  If they do any kind of repair or fabrication at all, they should have a catalog of jewelers tools for you to look at.  These pliers are available in some really small sizes, and will do the job on all your tiny hooks.  This is what I use.  Expect to pay around $17 or $20 bucks for quality pliers, but they will last you forever….   Cheers, and happy tying,   -Mark

Response:

Question:

Hello, I will have occassion to travel to Montana in September or October of this year.   can anyone suggest spots to flyfish – is that a reasonable time of ear to fish in those places? any info would be helpful: please email to either: or thanks, earl "So having said, a while he stood, expecting  Their universal shout and high applause  To fill his ear; when, contrary, he hears,  On all sides from innumerable tongues  A dismal universal hiss, the sound  Of public scorn."                 Paradise Lost. Book 10 (lines 504 – 509)                           John Milton

Response:

The Mo. below Wolf Creek would be a good place to fish. Also walking in to the ponds in the Pintlars or Pioneers would also be fun. You would need to be mindful of snow.

Response:

Try the Big Hole in September between Wisdom and Wise River.  Accessible and pretty good fishing.

Response:

Question:

Faster than a broomstick?

Response:

Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

Lamiglas still makes a line of glass rods.  They are very well made, and have a wonderfully slow action similar to split cane. Their GRAPHITE rods, OTOH, are like lightning. I like their style.  Most folks want a fast rod, but some people don’t, so they make something for everyone. CQ

Response:

(Farkward P. Parkenfarker) writes:    Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them.

I bow before your obviously superior knowledge. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700?

I’ve owned two G1000’s and one LHS.  I used them quite a lot, for steelhead and stripers, and I’m sure I know how they cast.   If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

I’m not sure what I did to provoke this, but if you insist, I’ll agree that Lamiglas makes the fastest damned rods on the planet. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

Response:

I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

Response:

Check out:         www.lamiglas.com -tgades

Response:

Check out their web site: www.lamiglas.com I’ve got quite a few of their rods, and I’m happy with them.  EXCELLENT customer service as well.      -tgades

Response:

I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

Didn’t they have a fire at their plant a few years back?  I had the impression that they either went out of business or did so temporarily. Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that. To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow. -tgades

Response:

I know nothing of their fly rod blanks, however when I build a custome surf rod for myself or a friend I will use no other blank. They can not be touched !! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

WHOA CHARLIE!  Are indicating here that you think "lamiglass" must mean that their fly rods are glass-fiber rods? You say it is a ‘cult’ rod?  Where did you ever come up with such a conclusion?  I would certainly call an Orvis Rod a cult rod… Just thought it should be said that Lamiglass Graphite Fly Rods are top of the line and anyone thinking of buying one couldn’t do better anywhere else in the world.

George, I’m sure you don’t hear it very much in this ng, but, you’re absolutely right! (Once again) my brevity has gotten me into trouble. I will write 1000 times, Lamiglas makes an outstanding graphite rod, one of the best, in as fast an action as anyone would want. I was speaking only of the lamiglas glass rods, which do have a strong following, and given the overwhelming popularity of graphite rods, it could be described as a "cult following".  (agree with you about the orvis comment, but the basis of THAT following is a bit more puzzling!). 8^) That said, the glass blanks (and rods?) are still available, and as far as I know, still in production.  I’m planning on building one this year. A nice 4 or 5 wt for the high country.  Can’t wait. Very glad you spoke up.   Guess I hit the Send button a little early on that one! …I haven’t heard anything about Eric Lieser for a long while.  Anyone know what he’s doing lately? Hell of a song writer too.

Can’t help you with that, but I’ll be looking for the CD… CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

They are great rods, but more of a cult favorite.   I’m speaking of the glass rods here.  They don’t really compare well to the other more popular brands, as they have a slower action, for a slower, more relaxed, style of fishing; sort of a poor-man’s bamboo. CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Sweet stuff mate.  many of the "better" brands use Lamiglass blanks.

Response:

Question:

        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

Response:

       I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

agaga

Response:

Try the Grand River by Painesville, OH there is a park called Helen Wyzman park where there is good Smallmouth fishing.  There is also steelhead on the river in the fall.  Also, Conneaut River by Conneaut, OH is very good for steelhead.  There are quite a few other places try contacting the Valley Angler in Chagrin Falls they can give you more info

Response:

:        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to : go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that : experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass : and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! You may want to try out the Scioto river and the Olentangy north of Columbus. They are excellent smallmouth waters. If you feel like going for trout, try the Mad River between Urbanna and Zanesfield. Anywhere that the road crosses over is an access point on the Mad. Also, check out the Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Wildlife. They both have loads of info on whats available in the state. DNR also has a publications division with lots of free maps and info on the outdoors in this state. They are located on Belcher Drive in Columbus. Check the phone book for numbers on where to call. Jon Porter

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        I live in Ohio and would like to know where would be a good place to go and try a little fly fishing!!  I am new at it so I am not that experienced with figuring the hatches and etc.  I live near columbus.  Bass and trout are what I would mainly like to fish for! Eric

Some years ago I read an article about the Mad River, which I believe is down your ways.  My memory of the piece is sketchy, but I still remember being astounded when I read that this stream (or parts of it) is a cold water fishery with holdovers and even some wild trout. Can anyone verify or correct this? Also, since moving to Cleveland I’ve been avoiding lake fishing, simply because I don’t have a boat and shore access can be frustrating.  Well last week, I bit the bullet and went over to Findley Lake, south of Oberlin.  The day was overcast and gloomy, there was a strong breeze, but a number of fishermen dotted the shore and lake.  I think they were surprised/curious to see a fly-guy on the lake, as more than a few of them walked my way to check me out.  I got there around 10 A.M. and in the 2 hours before the park filled up with picnicers, I caught 4 heavy bluegills and a smallish largemouth, all on a #14 black streamer.  It was great fun, made even better by the look of disgust of a nearby fisherman when he saw that I was putting all the fish back in the lake. Andy

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: Some years ago I read an article about the Mad River, which I believe is : down your ways.  My memory of the piece is sketchy, but I still remember : being astounded when I read that this stream (or parts of it) is a cold : water fishery with holdovers and even some wild trout. : Can anyone verify or correct this? Yeppers.  This is all true. Since you live in Ohio, check your fishing regs. There is Info there on the Mad. Also, check with your local District office of the DNR (listed in the regs) For information on the Clear Fork of the Mohican River. The state started stocking that with trout also. And it is much closer to you in Cleveland. Jon Porter

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

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I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

Call Bill & Jack’s Marina in Fishers Landing at 315-686-3592. Bill has been there for many many years and knows the river and guides. He isn’t a guide himself but I’m sure he could recommend a good one. Jack Paul Hereford, Pa 18056

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Does any organization or book publish a national or regional list of fishing outfitters (looking for all types, fly, deep sea, etc.)? Thanks in advance for your help. Dennis Galotti

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You will find some outfitters in Outdoors Online, this is a web site located at http://www.wsa.com/ool/ool1home.html… hope this helps FishNews (World of Fishing at www.fishingworld.com)

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