Question:

These thoughtful posts from Tara are just too good to allow to fade from usenet. Since Tara set them not to be archived, I’ve copied them here to protect them for posterity. MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Hogwasher/2.6.1 (Macintosh) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.national- parks,rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.wolves X-No-Archive: yes Lines: 73 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.237.31 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1023508397 209.226.237.31 (Fri, 07 Jun 2002 23:53:17 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!news- out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onv oy.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.c om!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: usenetserver.com rec.outdoors.national-parks:143809 rec.backcountry:254050 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:328244 alt.wolves:135493 atl1.usenetserver.com) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bingo! Yippee!  You win! So youa re actively and vigorously working at protecting the Tom Benos of the world. Ya think?  Well, I guess I’m not going to get too worked up over it.  I mean, how many of them can there be?  I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered the name Beno before……I’d be much surprised if there’s more than a couple dozen Tom Benos on the planet.  And, given how unlikely it is that they share much more than a name, I suspect that giving all of them my active and vigorous support would pretty much be a wash in the long run, don’t you? Thanks for the support! Uh…..you’re welcome…….I guess…….um…….are you a Tom Beno? E-mail his ISP and complain about the illegal and unconstitutional harassment techniques of the far right extremists trying to take away his right of free speech! Rise up and smite the oppressors!  Dirty filthy cowards, all of them… Dan Evidence be damned!  I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and give long odds that you and the rest of the Tom Benos think you got something to say. Wolfgang whattya say boys and girls……who wants to win a shiny new nickel?      :)

Reading all of this – all of this – I am overwhelmed with the sheer pettiness of all of you. ALL of you.  What a waste of time, what a waste of lives. Do none of you have nothing better to do with your time.  Do any of you ever stand back and look at what you write and actually see yourselves. "I’ll do what I want because my way is the right way. And I’ll do what is right because you are wrong!" "And I’ll fix you, ha ha!"  Do you not see that all of you are right and all of you are at the same time wrong?  Nah, you don’t. Your attitude, both sides, is why we have the mess we do.  This is why this world, it’s politics and it’s results are, and continue to be a mess   This is not the way to clean it up or change it. It’s only a way to perpetuate it. I sit back and look at this and I see that Tom, at least has a cause, a purpose and we need that. We need crusaders. But when it becomes a matter of oneupmanship or one of school yard childishness, there is no hope of change. What to do?  Has anyone ever known what to to. I sometimes think it’s simply going to be a struggle forever.   In the history of the world the only ones who have truly changed anything are those who have always been unwilling to resort to the tactics I see here. You, all of you are the grain of sand that is the universe. What kind of universe do you want it to be. Tara Just my 2 cents. MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Hogwasher/2.6.1 (Macintosh) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.national- parks,rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.wolves X-No-Archive: yes Lines: 112 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.208.65.191 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1023515054 216.208.65.191 (Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:44:14 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!btnet- peer1!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn !webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.b ellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: usenetserver.com rec.outdoors.national-parks:143811 rec.backcountry:254061 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:328261 alt.wolves:135495 atl1.usenetserver.com) Tom is not a crusader, he’s a nuisance. I’m sure that you also welcome into your home every person that has a religous message to share. And isn’t that the ultimate crusade?

Ahhh, Jeff, notice how you searched for and of course, found the one thing you could find to perpetuate and continue the madness. And also notice (you won’t, however), how you brought it into a new twist to perpetuate the argument.  But, I’m not arguing, and I will not continue (no matter what idiotic responses come from what I’ve said) to post here anymore on this topic. Tara Bye buy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bingo! Yippee!  You win! So youa re actively and vigorously working at protecting the Tom Benos of the world. Ya think?  Well, I guess I’m not going to get too worked up over it.  I mean, how many of them can there be?  I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered the name Beno before……I’d be much surprised if there’s more than a couple dozen Tom Benos on the planet.  And, given how unlikely it is that they share much more than a name, I suspect that giving all of them my active and vigorous support would pretty much be a wash in the long run, don’t you? Thanks for the support! Uh…..you’re welcome…….I guess…….um…….are you a Tom Beno? E-mail his ISP and complain about the illegal and unconstitutional harassment techniques of the far right extremists trying to take away his right of free speech! Rise up and smite the oppressors!  Dirty filthy cowards, all of them… Dan Evidence be damned!  I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and give long odds that you and the rest of the Tom Benos think you got something to say. Wolfgang whattya say boys and girls……who wants to win a shiny new nickel?      :) Reading all of this – all of this – I am overwhelmed with the sheer pettiness of all of you. ALL of you.  What a waste of time, what a waste of lives. Do none of you have nothing better to do with your time.  Do any of you ever stand back and look at what you write and actually see yourselves. "I’ll do what I want because my way is the right way. And I’ll do what is right because you are wrong!" "And I’ll fix you, ha ha!"  Do you not see that all of you are right and all of you are at the same time wrong?   Nah, you

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Dang!  You know, I think she’s right.

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Yeah, she may be right, but in the end, isn’t her responding to them just more of the same?  And isn’t my response to her responding to them just more of the same? …Whoa, too much thinking makes Kurt’s head spin.  I’m going to go sit down now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dang!  You know, I think she’s right.

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Question:

I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing.

That’s easy, go up to Dodge City and fish with Wayne Knight – the fly will last a year or more<g. — Charlie…

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Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns? I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

The waters he fished them on are pretty large turbulent waters. I don’t know what the exact area is like where he tested them but it is a large river. There areas of my local waters where I was going to try them are the deeper runs and the pocket water stretches. I’ll try to fish them with SOME confidence. Last fall I was in central/western Wyoming and had a couple days to fish. I stopped in a shop for some information. Since it was fall, the shop owner hadn’t had much business and seemed glad to have someone to talk to. We talked about quite a few things and he gave me some information that, I felt he wouldn’t normally give. It being fall in the Rockies, hatches were limited to sporadic caddis and BWO’s in about a size 20. The olives, he said, brought up the good fish. I asked him what he used and he showed me a large stimulator type fly that was very bright and flashy. The fly was tied on a number 14 stimulator hook which translated into a fly about the size of a normal size 10. I looked at him with some skepticism but bought a couple and went out. The section of river he sent me to carried alot of water even during the low flows typical in the Fall. The area was a series of deep strong runs, filled with large boulders.  I caught a few fish in the morning, then about 11 o’clock the Olives started popping up. I saw occasional rises and switched to a typical Olive imitation tied in a size eighteen. I caught a couple of smaller Browns on the current edges and continued to see an occasional surface feeding trout. The fish that were rising seemed to be smaller fish. I switched over to the fly that the shop owner recommended and I caught a number of sizable fish that came up off the bottom is the heavy current. My guess is that the better trout were feeding on the active and emerging nymphs but weren’t willing to come to the surface through the strong current for such a small fly. The larger attractor pattern, made the trip worthwhile. This isn’t a perfect example of his approach but it is the type of situation where a fly having certain exaggerated visual cues might work well. Willi

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Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns?

I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

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with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series.

I have not experimented with the Double Wing series, but I have been using the Airheadfor several years now with great success, but unlike Gary, do not find it very durable. When I use it on the bedding bluegills I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing. Big Dale

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Willi, Did you every get the email I sent to you (aka "Rusty Hook")?  Anyway, if you didn’t, here it is again: I’ll probably head up to the Yellowstone area for my vacation, preferably during the clave, but it won’t be due to poor fishing conditions around here. I’ll just be ready for something different by August.

Come on by Stanley this summer, Willi, and we’ll fish for wild cutthroats in places so beautiful they’ll make you eyes bleed. I’ll warn you, though. You’ll have to exert yourself to get there. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Each year I come up with a few things that I’m interested in checking out streamside. This year, I’m looking to get a feel for streamer fishing, fishing a "cast" of wets and I’m thinking about experimenting with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series. Although I’m not much of a believer of a "right" fly or the importance of color overall, this series of flies is based on studies done by him using underwater divers to record the reactions of trout to certain colors and aspects of flies. The Double Wing series was a result of this study in terms of the "ideal" attractor pattern. He recommends certain color combinations for different light situations. Although Brooks, if I remember right, did some underwater observations, as far as I know, LaFontaine was the only person to study, from an underwater prospective and in a systematic manner, the reactions of trout to a number of variables of a fly’s construction. Does any one here fish these patterns? Any comments? Willi

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Question:

Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself.

Heh heh, I’m just the opposite – I keep meaning to fish other waters, but never get off the W Branch AuSable  Where do you fish – Saranac, E Branch, smaller streams?  There are supposed to be some nice native brookie streams nearby.  One time I got lost and fished a little stretch of water that I believe was below AuSable Forks, so technically it wouldn’t have been the W Branch Before you buy.

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Nice report.  Wish I was there. TL MC

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The

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Hmmm, As luck would have it I have to be in the adirondacks from Friday night till Sunday morning without the family and only a 20 minute commitment in Lake George on Saturday morning. Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself. Are there any other Roffians who want to fish the AuSable on  Saturday? Paul

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, Jeff

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"JeffC 1474"  wrote… Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn.

It would certainly have been poetic justice had he "thrown the book" at you. <g (Sorry, couldn’t resist.) –Steve (it’s good to hear from you Jeff!)

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This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.  The Ausable is a reasonably big, rocky river, smaller than the Delaware, but similar in character to what I would imagine some western rivers to be like, if a little smaller.  It’s one of my favorite, if not my favorite, stream I’ve ever fished. Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn. If I don’t stop in Lake Placid, my first stop is always at Fran Betters’ Adirondack Sport Shop on 86 in Wilmington.  The big sign with a girl catching her fly on her skirt and pulling it up is still there, but there’s a new one that says "FRAN IS BACK!"  Fran is famous in those parts as a fly tier and fisherman, and knows the W Branch Ausable probably better than anyone.  He developed patterns such as the Ausable Wulff.  Fran is getting on in years and last year leased the business to another man.  Rumours run wild about what happened, but the facts are that it ended on bad terms, Fran is back in the shop, and the other guy opened a new shop nearby. www.ausablewulff.com Luckily the light was still on at 10 so I could get the stream report and any flies I’d need for the next day.  There are shops in the area with a better inventory and more modern fixtures, but none with as much character.  It’s a fine place to hang out and shoot the shit and collect fishing reports as fishermen filter in and out.  Fran recommended some golden stones and March Brown dries, among other things.  I was surprised because I didn’t even know there *were* yellow stoneflies there, just black.  You can’t tell by looking at the nymphal shucks they leave on the rocks, and I had never tried to collect any from the stream.  I headed over to The Bunkhouse which can be reserved through the shop.  It’s $15 a night, a total dive, but a great place to stay if you’re fishing there.  You can stay at some prissy lodge if you want, but real fishermen stay at The Bunkhouse.  There is usually sports on TV and beer drinking in the living room and late night tying sessions at the big table in the kitchen.  An alternative he-man accomodation would be a tent at the Wilmington Notch campsite on the other side of the river from Whiteface Mt., site of the Olympic skiing. Headed out to the water in the morning.  What a difference a year makes.  Last year at this same time the water was 68 in the morning up to 72 in the afternoon, and levels were low during drought conditions, and they were warning about stressed out fish.  I had done better than many people because I headed toward water upstream near the ski jumps, where it is more shaded and a couple degrees cooler, and in the well-oxygenated water below the Wilmington dam. Also I was willing to accept smaller fish, 6-13", and every one was hard fighting and healthy.  There are a lot of big fish in this river, and some people feel like they fail if they don’t catch a 20 incher, but the conditions just weren’t right.  The trout were going nuts over big yellow stimulators.  I did have one big fish break my line in the upstream section, which would have been a real trophy in that area, and I vowed to challenge it again this year. But I changed my mind since the conditions were so different now – 54 degree water temp and higher water.  BTW, the water in this river tends to have a tea stain color.  Fran recommends all-Maxima Chameleon leaders, including the tippet.  He sells them there if you don’t like to make your own. I fished in the 5 mile catch and release section, which I rarely do since it can get crowded.  But this section contains extremes of water type, from slow, pond-like pools to rough, bouldery water with deeper runs and some gorge-like sections.  I fished some rough water with deeper runs,  high-sticking the golden stone nymphs with weight.  Right away I got a 14" rainbow, which unfortunately did not fight too hard and looked fresh off the stocking truck.  Fortunately, every *other* fish I caught that day appeared to be a holdover fish.  Next came a tough 15" brown, and then a 13" brown.  The takes were subtle, but did not prepare me for the subtleness of the next take. I was sure I had hung bottom.  I tried to pull it free, but it wouldn’t budge. Then I put a lot of pressure on it from an upstream angle – nothing.  I was getting ready to break the line when all of a sudden the fish started rolling to the surface flashing its side.  I had so much pressure on the line that the fly pulled out and rocketed straight into a tree overhead and I couldn’t get it out – salt rubbed in the wound – one nymph down, one to go.  It looked about 18" but felt like 20 lbs – weird.  Ready for the most subtle of takes now, the next cast went into a deep, swirling eddy.  The take was so strong and sudden that it scared the crap out of me, and I ripped the fly right out of its mouth.  And…. you guessed it – straight into the same tree overhead.  Well, black nymphs from now on  Then for the next hour and a half – not a single take (as far as I could tell.) I’m fairly athletic, but I was having a hard time wading the rougher water near the middle of the river.  I finally broke down and went back to the shop to get a wading staff, which was a big help later.  Never thought I’d see the day Ironically, it caused my only injury – it was dragging behind me when I slipped a little.  I fell toward the staff, which was wedged against a rock, and drove the handle deep into the side of my thigh.  I’ve got a big purple knot there now the size of a lemon. I headed below the Wilmingtion dam about a half mile or so.  This is very nice, moderate wading in terms of difficulty, riffly pocket water with some of those semi-pool, semi-broken-water areas that are my personal favorite for dry flies.  There was still no surface activity even though there were quite a few caddis in the air and the occasional sulphur.  No more action on the nymphs.  I finally saw some sporadic rises and started to fish dries – there were a couple March Browns coming off now.  I had a couple missed fish, which made me think I was striking too soon, until I sat and watched for awhile and realized they were missing (or refusing) the naturals too!  Crazy fish.  This was hard to determine though since there was only 1 rise about every 5 minutes.  I hiked a little and unfortunately must have caught my fly patch with my Haystack March Brown dries on it on a tree and lost it. Rummaging through the box, I finally came across an old one I tied probably 20 years ago, traditional pattern.  And… it worked.  For some reason, a fish took that old March Brown with more gusto than any fish took any natural I saw – it was hooked deep in the roof of its mouth – 13" brown.  Go figure.  The rain started a little and the wind started whipping up hard so I went back to nymphs – a big black stone that I picked out of a tree limb earlier, left behind by a caster in my league, presumably.  As it drifted toward a fast chute created by 2 boulders, it got picked up by a large fish.  Unfortunately as the fish rose into the fast water in the chute, I couldn’t  control it.  It was hard enough to wade into position to make the cast, let alone try and run downstream of the fish.  I put all the pressure on it I could, but all it did was hold it in place in that chute.  I watched it roll around for 5 or 6 seconds before it pulled off – about 20".  On the way back up I picked up another 10" brown, and an 8 incher that appeared to be stream bred. That night at the shop (which is also a house), I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and invited to stay for dinner with Fran and Jan and a couple guides (hint: the kitchen door at dinner time is usually the right place at the right time  It was a great opportunity to hear Fran and the guys tell stories and ask for some tips.  Fran is generous with his time and help.  Every couple weeks he gives a free cookout and informal fly casting clinic.  I’ve seen him many times patiently explain things to newcomers that I know he’s explained hundreds of times before.  And he is no snob – he will suggest where and how to fish whether you want to use flies, spinners, or worms. A guide spoke of the previous day’s client.  He asked the client what his casting ability was, so he could decide where and how to fish.  The reply was "I have a Sage SP."  !!  The guy was apparently a dickhead and didn’t want to listen to the recommended streamer fishing technique for a certain stretch.  He was riding high as he hooked a nice fish.  The guide nearly broke out in laughter when it turned out to be a sucker, and foul hooked to boot.  Then the guide pulled out an 18" rainbow from the same pool.  He knew there would be no tip, but he just couldn’t resist Regards, Jeff

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Question:

 ___  Snipped notice: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week. Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions. As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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_____ Price increases will go into effect next week.  Bamboo items included.  We will honor all previous orders at the introductory prices we started off with in ROFF.  This notice in ROFF is in all fairness not a spam because the company was born in ROFF from challenges and dares initiated here. That aside, the venture is a success and this is the end of our efforts to maintain the barest of profit margins which will continue for only this week.   Monday will be a new day and our Bamboo Fly Rod Prices will reflect a more realistic Ayn Rand perspective. Also of major importance is the petroleum industry price increases which will be impacting fly fishing more than everyone realizes in the immediate future.  That will include increases in plastic parts found in the trade, to waders, shoes, fly boxes, you name it.  There is also a stunning increase in the price of cork.  This will increase the price of all fishing poles of any kind that has cork handles in them later this year.  Cork trees cannot keep up with the demand in Portugal.  I think there may now be a move to find a substitute material such as balsa wood, or even a synthetic that is acceptable by the public.  I only wonder what the fly fishing industry would accept without arguing or screaming about weight?  On one hand, we don’t like artificial materials on Bamboo Fly Rods and on the other, my choice would be prone to try Balsa wood because of its nice color and lighter weight.  THIS, I would like others to put their minds too and help us come up with some answers or possible solutions.   As it stands right now, it looks like a $10 increase per cork fishing rod handle!  This is outrageous. This is a public service announcement which no other manufacturers are not giving the public a chance to respond or help out with. Any ideas out there? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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Question:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion. TL MC

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I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion.

And you know that no matter how carefully one was to couch any assistance to avoid it being taken as criticism, the risk is still high that someone’s feelings are going to be injured. I just don’t see the high-percentage up-side to offering unsolicited casting assistance. And frankly, I’m on the water to enjoy myself, not to risk the ire of a flogger… /daytripper

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I only help when asked (fly choices, where, ect).  I have never given casting lessons while I am trying to fish nor do I plan to start that practice. I can understand wanting to be helpful and all, but let a beginner plot their own course. Some of the best lessons I have learned on my own.  If it is someone you know (like I just taught my brother), then don’t plan on fishing much and sure as hell don’t show off your expertise and catch a lot of fish using the same fly, in the same place.  That will just them turn them off thinking they are a failure. Warren

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I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow. W.E.S. Harman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow.

I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

Response:

Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away?

Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Whassis, Matt?  Smoking that stuff again?  And, Im NOT cross eyed! Myoptic, yes, but strabismus, not!  And HEY, I tyed my own shoes!  A *real* guide would show a little humility.  The lessons are worth the Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

I went out to my home river last night at about 7:30 to fish the evening hatch. I was fishing a run that usually holds some good fish when there’s a hatch on. They come out of a deep pool down below to feed in the shallower, swifter water. I’ve been fishing this stretch of the river for about fifteen years and feel I know it very well. A young, blonde woman in hippers was fishing upstream and saw me catch a couple of little ones. She came down to ask me what I was using.  I gave her a couple of flies, showed her one of the mayflies the trout were feeding on and wished her luck.  She then told me that the fish were rising "like crazy" in the pool down below but she couldn’t wade out far enough because she was too short. I explained to her that there was a school of very small Browns that surface feed in the pool every evening but that the better fish move up into the head of the pool and into the run I was fishing. Fishing was fairly slow where I was and there was only about fifteen minutes left before I couldn’t see my fly any more. So I thought I’d go down stream and catch a few of those "little browns" that were rising "like crazy."  When I got there, they WERE rising like crazy and were feeding on the same small dun mayfly that was hatching in the run above. On the second or third cast, I had a solid take. Expecting a little Brown, I wasn’t ready for the strong down stream run and I broke off the fish. A few minutes later I got another hook up, I was a little better prepared and after a nice battle landed a Rainbow of about 16". It was then pretty dark, but the fish were still rising. Although I couldn’t see my fly, I could make out the rise forms, so I took a few more casts and hooked and landed a Rainbow that was pushing 20".   Nice way to end the evening but I had another little treat in store. Wading back to shore I tripped on a boulder and took a dunking. While I was swearing at myself for being so stupid, I thought about my conversation with the young woman. She gave me a nice evening of fishing and I felt like an ass for being such a know it all. Willi

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

What ? a beginner trashing water in frustration ? Most of the people I see on streams fish like this: ^^^^^ back-cast … splash … forward cast … splash (repeat about 10 times to get 40 yards out) drag drag drag. Ok, just kidding. I sometimes offer flies when asked what I am using.  Sometimes I relinquish my spot if I sense that the other angler feels that I have the best spot and he is fishing dead water. A slightly different problem is the lack of stream etiquette that beginners seem to have. I rarely had a problem sharing streams with old timers, however, new fishermen are often a pain in the butt.  Aside for people moving close to me and cast at the same trout I am working on, I had people crossing streams just where I was, or, in some cases, going near the place I was casting to, to see if there was a trout there …. What do you do in those cases ?  I usually move to the next pool: the few times I made a comment about the behaviour, I received blank stares in return. Now, as FF has become increasingly popular with wealthier people in the recent years, who often buy Orvis stuff, I wonder if the dislike that this group has shown towards Orvis is really due to the dislike of new fishermen lacking stream etiquette and dressed in rather expensive outfits ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

ah, mike…that must be the germanic influence engorging your brit nature…soon you’ll be postin about teen-y flies… jeff (worshiping at the mons venus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

you mean all that stuff walt taught me was wrong?  he said it was in the orvis book… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Anyone out there heard of a good trailing shuck imitation.  In jams, I’ve used panty-hose, and of course z-lon when tying.

Aunt Lydia’s rug and craft yarn.

Response:

Anyone out there heard of a good trailing shuck imitation.  In jams, I’ve used panty-hose, and of course z-lon when tying.  I want something a little better. Any suggestions? Thanks- J W Kramer @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@   "See Dick fly-fish.    See Dick catch fish.    See Dick kill fish."           DON’T BE A DICK!  PRACTICE AND TEACH CATCH AND RELEASE @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@

Response:

Question:

I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

Response:

I bought an Aquaterra Swing last fall and have only fished out of it twice.  On both occasions, however, it has proved to be a very stable craft, quiet, and easy to paddle.  The one drawback is that you will get wet, so it’s much more comfortable in warm weather/water.  Of course, you could wear waders or a wet suit. I have yet to try it in moving water, but would think it would operate quite nicely in moderate flows. Regards,  -William Ivey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

Response:

I thought of rigging outriggers to a regular kayak so you could stand while flyfishing if you desired. Anyone ever try this. MichaelSmith

Response:

I understand these boats are great for getting around the Texas flats looking for redfish and trout, but I wonder how a SOT kayak would handle the small rivers and lakes of central Texas. Anyone with experience on these craft?

        I use an SOT for tooling around in the reservoirs and impoundments of central Virginia, and I have a blast.  I can duck into really shallow areas, and can portage the boat and my rod fairly easily.  My only trouble has been the occasional hooking of the bow hardware; it is really tough to pull any flies out without beaching.  However, I feel more stable in the SOT (don’t flame me-that is just a PERSONAL preference, not a condemnation of canoes), so I prefer it to a canoe.  Since SOTs are so responsive to the paddle, almost as much as a traditional kayak, I havesome  problems using mine in moving water and fishing at the same time.  I tend to get wrapped up in one or the other, so I can’t get both done.  However, from my days living in Houston, I remember some of the central Texas rivers like the Guadalupe are relatively slow, like our local river-fed impoundments.  By all means try it; I have a blast with mine. Dan Johnson

Response:

I have been kayaking for several years, and have both sea and whitewater boats.  I often fish from my sea kayak.  As far as SOT’s go, they are the fastest growing segment in kayaking, so if you don’t like what’s out there now, wait until next year.  Best advice is visit the nearest dealer that carries the major brands of SOT’s (Aquaterra, Dagger, Ocean Kayak), and paddle them all — take your gear and see how it fits on and in the boat.  See how stable/unstable it is while casting.  Any good dealer will spend the time with you so you get what you want.   Most likely you will find a short touring boat best for lakes and moving water up to Class II rapids.  Whitewater SOT’s will be too tippy and not track well enough for you to enjoy on lakes, but paddle them anyway — find out for yourself.  You may want to consider a high quality inflatable kayak like AIRE, SOAR, or Northwest River Supplies — packable, durable, responsive, stable as heck.  Good luck.

Response:

Question:

I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Hi David, Yes most streams here in Montana are high and dirty with spring run off. One area you might check is Libby, Montana. The first 4 miles of the Kootenai River below the dam remains fairly clean during runoff and may very well be your only shot. 4 miles down stream from the dam the Fisher River will probably be pouring a lot of dirty water into the system. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

The problem you have is that you talked to the fellow at Kalispell last week, and you’re coming next week.  At this time of year, that is an eternity!  In the spring, conditions are volatile.  After 10 days of cold weather, most everything is down again.  If it warms up, it will come back up. If it stays cool, the rivers stay down. You have a couple of options on how you go to Kalispell from Helena.  If you go north from Helena, the Missouri below Holter Dam has come down and is offering some good midge dry fly fishing(if the wind isn’t blowing).  You can wade that stretch of the river, and there are several fly shops in Wolf Creek and Craig, Montana.  If you go west to Missoula and then up to Kalispell you could fish Rock Creek or maybe the Bitteroot south of Missoula.  I’d recommend you talk to the fellows at Grizzly Hackle in Missoula about that fishing.   Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

Response:

I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Response:

I spoke to a guy in a Kalispell flyshop and he told me all the streams were blown out with melt. I will be traveling MT between Kalispell and Helena next week on business but should be able to fish 1-2 days. Where should I go? The flyshop guy said they were doing great at the pothole lakes near Browning. That’s way to far out of my route for me. Thanks. I hope this spring brings many scrappy fish to your lines.

Rock Creek is fishing pretty good…has is the Bitterroot..but it is pretty high.

Response:

Question:

Planning a Memorial Day Weekend trip to the Housatonic and have never fished the area.  Looking for help regarding spots and hatches.  Will be staying at Housatonic Meadows State park.   Thanks and Tight Lines! — MICHAEL DeVERE

Response:

Michael, From your campground at Housatonic Meadows North on Route 7 to the Covered Bridge in Cornwall is the entire Trout Management Area.  Anyplace you see a spot where you can squeeze in a car, on either side of the road,  will get you to the River.  Many people like the pool just below the covered bridge, but I have found the entire stretch excellent. The CT State Hatchery is stocking 9,000 Trout into this section on May 22.  This will add to an already abundant, but wise, population. Caddis Flys (Green, Black, Cream, Tan, Brown & Grey) seem to be big producers this week.  Also Caddis Emergers fished in the film are doing well. Look for Ephemerella Dorothea (Little Sulphur in about a size 16) to be hatching during your stay. Good luck. Greg Greg

Response:

Planning a Memorial Day Weekend trip to the Housatonic and have never fished the area.  Looking for help regarding spots and hatches.

The Housie has lots of hatches. Baetus, brown and green caddis (#14-16), maybe March Browns, Green and Brown Drakes if you’re lucky, are all likely to be present. Figuring out what the trout are working on is the biggest challenge. There are lots of trout, virtually all stocked fish, despite fishkills in recent years brought about by hot water and poor water management. River flows are controlled by releases from a power dam, which is operated on weekends primarily for the benefit of canoeists and kayakers. This generally means high water difficult to fish from 9AM to 5PM. One strategy is to fish the north end of the Trout Management Area (about a mile or so above the covered bridge and best accessed from the east side) early in the AM, and move downstream as the water there starts to rise between 8 and 8:30, ending up at the south end around 10 or 10:30, and repeat the trip in the late afternoon. The daily rise and fall of water flow tends to put the trout down during the transition. The Housie gets a lot of fishing pressure, but one can almost always find areas that are not crowded, and it offers a good variety of conditions, from fast pockets to smooth pools.  Check in with Phil at the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop on Rte 7; take his recommendations with a grain of salt, but he does know the river.

Response:

There’s a fly shop right opposite the campgrounds with good info and excellent local ties although my recollection is that proprietor is a little close mouthed until your wallet becomes visible. A;lso call river club info number for daily updates by the most knowledgeable Ed Kluck who records report daily. 203 248 8616. Also water releases tape # is 203 824 7053. Note that it takes two hours for head of water to reach the campground from the time the release starts at dam at Falls Village.

Response:

Question:

There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay:  1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs  2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?

Scottish midges come out when the light intensity drops below a certain value.  Thus dark clothes will attract them more quickly than light clothes. Exact value of this intensity, and many other interesting facts are given in ‘The Highland Midge’ a little booklet, which is, I believe, a shortened version of the author’s dissertation.  It is available in touristy shops. (I have no financial or other interests in this book.)  There are a lot of different types of midges, with wildly varying lifestyles and habitats. Kees PS For those in Edinburgh: there is a midge genus/type/model called    midge duddingstonii, or something to that effect, called after    Duddingston Loch.  A lot of repellent tests were done around    Achnashellach, prime midge country.  DEET still seems to be recognised    to be the most effective. — Kees Goossens                       Keep in Touch with the Dutch: University of Edinburgh, Scotland   UUCP:  ..!mcsun!uknet!dcs!kgg Wiskunde is bouwen in de geest. — Luitzen Egbertus Jan Brouwer.

Response:

I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away,   A few years ago, some friends and I decided to test the garlic theory.   There were 4 of us, and each evening I would grind up a dozen or so cloves for the soup.  

WHAT! NO CONTROL GROUP? ——- Ed.

Response:

|If I remember correctly, "The Complete Wilderness Paddler" cites |actual scientific research on the clothing color question. |According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark |colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors.  Orange is |the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white. Unfortunately orange is not the best color to wear when trying to catch that spooky german brown during the evening hatch.  Also, unfortunately when a #14 mosquito might be the best pattern, orange clothing might be the only thing you could where that would allow tolarable fishing conditions. There is this place in the southern part of Sequoia National forest where the mosquitos aren’t as bad as these little biting flies that come out around dusk.  If tying on a fly during failing light isn’t hard enough having a fly intrigued by the batting of your eyelashes makes it almost impossible. I’ve resigned to wearing a head net on such occasions.  That last time I was there we had just hiked out after a few days and were talking with a couple of guys that were waiting for it to cool off a little more before hiking in.  After one of them slapped his arm about the third or fourth time and said, "son of a bitch!",  I said, "you`ll be calling them worse than that before the trips over." — | John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |

Response:

According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors.  Orange is the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white.

   So that explains why all those hikers dressed like a flower are grinning so much.  And I thought it was ignorance.  (I guess it was ignorance – mine).  Still, I’m too macho to look like a spring garden. I’ll just wear my long-sleeved, dark-colored clothing, light up a stinking stogy (works on hikers too!) and head off into the forest. Woody

Response:

Wasn’t there an article in one of the mags recently about backcountry etiquette with regards to bright clothing and equipment?  I guess I’m not suprised that bugs have better taste than some people. Scott Herod

Response:

I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help.

   A few years ago, some friends and I decided to test the garlic theory.   There were 4 of us, and each evening I would grind up a dozen or so cloves for the soup.  In addition, I ate it raw with lunch (I like garlic).  Since our canoe trip lasted 14 days, we each consumed a good deal of the stuff.   It’s a good thing we never met anybody on the way.    Well, the bugs paid no attention at all; they were as vicious as ever. By 9 pm, the only thing to do was retreat to the tent and listen to the monsters buzz around.    Maybe you’re supposed to rub it on the skin … —        Computing and Communications Services                Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6

Response:

I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help.   Well, the bugs paid no attention at all; they were as vicious as ever. By 9 pm, the only thing to do was retreat to the tent and listen to the monsters buzz around.   Maybe you’re supposed to rub it on the skin …

This is the conclusion you were supposed to draw. The rumor was started by a gourmet bug club. — The fickleness of the women I love is only equalled by the infernal constancy of the women who love me.–George Bernard Shaw

Response:

There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay:  1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs  2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?

If I remember correctly, "The Complete Wilderness Paddler" cites actual scientific research on the clothing color question. According to this book (an excellent book by the way), dark colors attract mosquitoes more than light/bright colors.  Orange is the best color to wear, followed by colors like yellow, green, white. Ed

Response:

There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay:   1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs   2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue Has anyone out there heard concrete evidence to support or refute these statements? Should I ditch my navy blue shirt and buy a white one? Should I start popping B6 supplements?

Response:

There are two things I’ve heard wrt keeping bugs at bay:  1) Vitamin B6 when consumed gives one an odor distasteful to bugs  2) Bugs prefer dark colours especially blue

My experience growing up in a rice-growing region indicates that mosquitoes definitely prefer dark colors.  I don’t know if blue is particularly more attractive to them than other colors.  Loose fitting light outer garments seem best.  Wear a light-colored hat. I have heard that if you eat garlic, it will help keep bugs away, but I eat a fair amount of garlic and it doesn’t seem to help. — *  Jean Ezell                 *  University of Illinois   * *                             *  Coordinated Science Lab  * *  (217) 244-5536             *  Urbana, IL  61801        *

Response: