Question:

<SNIP Good for you. Here’s a bit more. Don’t call a perfectly reasonable post by a valued contributor "horse crap" and don’t try to justify a clueless and moronic scold of same by citing every friggin’ fish you’ve ever hooked as your bona fides.

<SNIP Thanks for the support, it is most appreciated. Some things are indeed not worth wasting time on though, and I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! TL MC

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account!

Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

I don’t understand why this is even being discussed. With Ken’s mild-mannered approach to other’s feelings, I can’t imagine anyone contemplating even a slight flame. Tim (yeah, I know, I’m a fuckin’ moron)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP So I guess there’s more than one view  around here. Gary Oh there are lots of views around here. Big game fishing sounds very attractive, but it is unlikely that I will ever do any. Like some other things, bonefishing, or stalking flats or mangroves for various exciting fish. My back would in any case almost certainly not be up to it. I have enjoyed reading about it, or hearing various reports from time to time though. I fear dry-fly fishing is a much more sedate affair. Just as exciting and interesting in its own way though. I hope you get the opportunity to do some.

Hi Mike, you are right about dryfly fishing being just as exciting as saltwater flyfishing.  I remember my first trip saltwater flyfishing: 3 weeks in Grand Cayman and a lot of small tarpon to 25lbs.  As the trip was drawing in, I started cringing as to how I would be able to get back on terms with the 1lb wild brownies in my local stream.  Lo and behold,  after 20 mins on the stream I had completely forgotten the saltwater battles, as I was totally immersed in fishing the dryfly.

Response:

… I would hate for you to get flamed on my account! Thanks for your concern, if I ever got flamed I’d be like SO devastated. — Ken Fortenberry

That

Question:

Great report, guys.  Peter, are you standing in a hole in that picture?  <g Never saw Forty in waders.  Hope I never do again.  <g  I like your hat, Forty.  Eff ‘em all if they don’t! Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word.

Welcome to Michigan! A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction.

I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19".  Of course he was fishing private water that is rarely encountered except for people who are taking long float trips. Good to hear you guys got into some steelies.  I’ve been meaning to go out this year but only made it out once and left early after only two hours of fishing.  I was disgusted by the "relatively" uncrowded conditions.  Did catch some trout but on my 9 wt they weren’t too much fun. Mu

Response:

Glad you guys had a great trip, and like Charlie has said, I find it hard to believe it did not rain.   Dave LaCourse

Worse, it snowed. Peter

Response:

real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

Response:

<great report snipped Nice Report Ken.  You reminded me of the first time on the San Juan last November.  I left my wading shoes in the car after my first day fishing, got down to the river the next morning and they were frozen solid. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. I believe there are places where you can find resident trout.  I was speaking with a guy last night who has been fishing the Muskegon on and off for the last three weeks.  He said he caught several browns and rainbows in the 16" – 19". …

That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked. The spawning population of steelies and salmon head out to Lake Michigan after their sexual escapades in the Muskegon and return year after year to spawn. Their offspring do the same. While some would claim they’re not "wild" because they were stocked in the first place they are "natural" in my book. Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Why can’t the rainbows spawn if the steelhead and salmon can? Are they outcompeted by the bigger fish?

Good question. I don’t know. I’m not familiar with the Muskegon at all and don’t know much about it. BTW, the salmon don’t return year after year. They die. I think I’ve heard of experiments with Atlantics in the Great Lakes, but the vast majority are Pacific salmon.

That’s right, the salmon that spawn in the Muskegon are Chinooks. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers? Dave

Response:

Have they ever tried Cutts in these rivers?

Don’t know, David. I’m more familiar with Wisconsin DNR than Michigan. So far as I know, Wisconsin has not. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

That’s right. Residents aka holdovers. I caught a nice 12" rainbow, he didn’t put up much of a fight against a 7wt. Those 6-8 inchers will be 12-14 inchers by fall and there are holdovers that make it through the winter. When I say it’s not a trout stream I mean that trout do not reproduce in the stream, they are all stocked.

My guess is that it has nothing to do with water quality but other factors such as: available spawning space (competition from the big guys), fishing pressure, low survivability of the stockers (poor genetics?), and perhaps seasonal factors that affect residents but not migratories. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Unlike the trout. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The truth ain’t always ugly.  Nice pics, whoever took them – both you and Ken did a good job of that. Delorme’s can be wrong (the Michigan one at least).  They don’t show all the dirt roads and there are some *roads* on that map that are just dirt trails.  Some of the names of the roads change as they cross county lines or highways and this is not always clearly marked on the map.  Also, the green color on the Delorme is supposed to represent public land but the detail is not fine enough to show you that on many of these streams there are in fact houses along the river.  I don’t mind too much though, the exploration part is just part of the fun of fishing.   BTW, I like Ken’s hat – got a Kangol just like it, earflaps and all. Mu

I was just being an ass.  The Delorme showed a Pettit road that lead straight to Croton.  It was a goat track and it ended at some power lines where trees and stumps had been dragged across the right-of-way. One would guess from the Delorme that it was a decent road.  Ken was right, the Delorme was wrong. Peter

Response:

Great trip report guys.   Thanks for the smiles. Joe F.

Response:

Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Nice report and pictures, but it didn’t seem to be raining so are you sure that was really Fortenberry in the festive chapeau? — Charlie…

Response:

……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages.

I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

Response:

……I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. I’ll open the bidding at 5 bucks.

i’ll see that 5 and raise, a hush falls over the table, hee-hee-hee…. a bottle of wild turkey for maine clave — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

Good report.  Nice to see pictures on your site. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. [a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Marvellous report, great pictures too. I really enjoyed that.  Thanks TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide?

The good looking "dude" is me.  I’m the one with the rod.  The fish is the thing with fins.  The guide is holding the thing with fins. Notice I made Ken’s fish picture big and my fish picture small.  Am I a great person or what, eh? Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

He loves it – and I had to put up with all of the sniggers from the bait fishermen. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

with a gusto, I might add That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

Naw, just a blip.  Now if he’d used spawn on the end of his T&T  . . . . Peter

Response:

Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html

Holy macaroni! Who the hell are the two "dudes" in the pictures with the guide? Where the heck did Ken get that hat?? And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!? That’s it. The world is coming to an end. /daytripper (awe-palled…)

Response:

Nice report. Thanks, almost like being there, especially the bloody freezing feet ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck.

[a somewhat accurate story snipped] — Ken Fortenberry

Teeny weeny hen my ass.  Just to set the record straight, I caught the hens, Ken caught the bucks.  Not trying to imply something here, but I’m starting question his "orientation" if you know what I mean.  (Say no more.   Say no more.  Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink)  Any way, if he keeps up with those exaggerations, I have an ET2 secret that he’d pay me mucho dinaro not to reveal on these pages. Anyway, enough of the Entertainment Tonight segment of the trip.  The real truth along with the evidence can be viewed at: http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/trip-27.html Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

… Where the heck did Ken get that hat??

Hey, that’s a great hat, fleece, Goretex AND ear flaps,…ahhh, ear flaps. Peter made fun of it too, can you imagine, and him looking like the Unabomber in that hood. And what’s this – Ken fishing for stockers?!?

Yeah I know, it made the guide happy. I considered it part of his tip. Those fish were put in the river the previous Thursday, all were 6-8 inches and dumber than dumb. The guide said if there’s anything in your fly box that you’d like to pull out at some point and say, "Can you believe I caught a fish on THAT.", now is the time to tie it on. They had six inches of snow the previous Friday and he said they were rising furiously to snow flakes. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

We picked the Muskegon River in Michigan because it’s roughly equidistant between my home in Urbana, IL and Peter Charles’ home in Burlington, Ontario. As fishing season 2000 started to unfold and dates started firming up, it was starting to look like Peter and I wouldn’t have a chance to wet a line together. I can’t make it to Maine ‘Clave, Peter can’t make it to Spring Fling so obviously we had to do something. It was basically put a finger on the map, let’s fish there. We hired a guide for Monday and met at the motel late morning on Sunday. I had my canoe and the plan was to buy licenses and familiarize ourselves with the area before the guided trip the next day. While buying the licenses I discovered a couple of things. First, if you catch a female steelhead early in the day, just gut her on the spot and you’ve got bait for the rest of the day. This from the very friendly bait guys at the Trading Post. I said, "Yeah, thanks. What a great idea." They did give us some very helpful advice on access points and I genuinely like talking to those guys even if I never would gut a hen on the spot. Second, Peter lies about his weight when buying a fishing license. We had a pleasant canoe trip from Croton Dam to the Thornapple Ave. access. Very crowded on a Sunday afternoon and we canoed more than we fished. We did see plenty of steelhead, though. Rather, Peter saw plenty of steelhead, I had left my polarized glasses in the car. Monday morning was cold. My wading shoes were wet from the day before and they turned into ice cubes while sitting in the drift boat. Hard for me to be comfy with cold feet and my feet were encased in ice for the first hour of the trip. We anchored the boat at a place the guides call "The Carnival", an eighth of a mile stretch of riffles and pools about a mile below Croton Dam. They call it "The Carnival" because during steelhead season it is packed with anglers. On a Monday morning, it was relatively uncrowded. "Relatively" being the key word. I got the first couple of hookups but botched them badly. Broke off the fish almost immediately. Peter landed the first steelie after a couple of his own botched hookups. I quickly followed and caught the same buck that had broken me off earlier, so was able to retrieve BOTH of my #14 black stonefly nymphs. We moved down a ways, spotted some fish, anchored and then waded into position. Peter was on almost immediately, our guide looked downstream, looked at the hole where he’d positioned me and said "Here’s our chance for a double." The guide waded down to net Peter’s fish and before he got into position I was on to a fish. The double. Guides love ‘em, and it makes for a great photo op. The first fish took me into the backing but this one seemed content to just sit in a hole and DEFY me. I watched the action downstream as Peter and the guide did the intricate netting dance and then I yelled down to Peter, "Here’s our double !" I worked down to get my fish next to the net so the guide could net both, one right after the other. He did, we got a quick photo, and Peter will post it on his site soon. Peter is the one on the right with the teeny weeny bright hen and I’m the one on the left with the huge brawny buck. I don’t know what Peter was using, I caught that one a Hex nymph. A great day of fishing. The Muskegon River is a beautiful piece of water. It supports a spawning population of steelhead and Chinook salmon. It’s not really a trout stream, though. All the trout are stockers and they don’t get any natural reproduction. Our guide was very good. I have only mentioned one guide in this forum as someone I recommend. That was Robin Cunningham of Gallatin Gateway, Montana. Today, I recommend the second. Dustan Harley of Ripple Guide Service. http://www.rippleguideservice.com/ Dustan had us on the water for nearly 11 hours and was at his most impressive when he stopped the boat, and said "Get out your 4 wts." It was the PERFECT interlude. We tossed stimulators and griffiths gnats to rising stockers. After chucking lead for most of the day with 7 wts, it was a real joy to actually flyfish with a dry fly. We caught dumb little 8" fish and it was a hoot. Dustan will be in Livingston, Montana during Western ‘Clave. He’s a good guy to go fishin’ with. I do question his taste in beer, after the trip when offered a Sleeman’s or a Budweiser, he chose the Sleeman’s. Hey, I said he was a good guide, I won’t vouch for his taste in beer. After that long day in the wind and the cold you might expect a couple of old farts to just go back to motel room, drink a beer in their underwear and go immediately to sleep. Peter and I partied till the wee hours, drank a half a fifth of Wild Turkey, and had to shoo off the dancing girls at daylight. That’s our story and we’re sticking to it. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

ROFL.  You got it, Bob.  Good advice.  However, you forgot goats, trees, lawyers, and boiled peanuts!  <g

Response:

BASTAARRRDDD!!!

Response:

Boiled Peanuts, what the hell are boiled peanuts??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROFL.  You got it, Bob.  Good advice.  However, you forgot goats, trees, lawyers, and boiled peanuts!  <g

Response:

Boiled Peanuts, what the hell are boiled peanuts??

Well, not to put too fine a point on it but, they are peanuts that have been boiled.      

Response:

Hello everyone, I have decided to try this thing called Fly fishing.  I live in Northeast Ohio and will be fishing for Smallmouth, Steelhead and a stray Salmon most of the time. I don’t have a small fortune to spend, so I need some input on what I need and what size.     I have been doing some reading on fly fishing and I understand some of the termanology that goes along with it. There is a hell of alot to learn and I don’t even own a rod yet  HELP Thanks Jim Vonderau

Response:

Hello everyone, I have decided to try this thing called Fly fishing.  I live in Northeast Ohio and will be fishing for Smallmouth, Steelhead and a stray Salmon most of the time. I don’t have a small fortune to spend, so I need some input on what I need and what size.     I have been doing some reading on fly fishing and I understand some of the termanology that goes along with it. There is a hell of alot to learn and I don’t even own a rod yet  HELP Thanks Jim Vonderau

Uh, oh… Get ready James… You’ve just called in an artillery strike at your chair!! INCOMING!!! — Michael Era

Question:

I will be in Jackson, WY for a meeting Aug 21-25, an annual event.  I usually try to spend a few afternoons on Flat Creek in the Refuge.  Does anyone have any current information on how it’s doing so far this summer??  Does anyone know of any other spring creek fishing accessible without going through a fly shop or guide.  I don’t mind a rod fee, but have been fly fishing for 30 years and prefer to fish on my own.  Thanks. T. Mann

Response:

I will be in Jackson, WY for a meeting Aug 21-25, an annual event.  I usually try to spend a few afternoons on Flat Creek in the Refuge.  Does anyone have any current information on how it’s doing so far this summer??  Does anyone know of any other spring creek fishing accessible without going through a fly shop or guide.  I don’t mind a rod fee, but have been fly fishing for 30 years and prefer to fish on my own.  Thanks. T. Mann

I was just in Jackson this week. Just south, beyond the Hoback Junction, Hoback Creek and Granite Creek meet. I was talking to a few people in our campground (Granite Creek Campground) and they were pulling some fairly decent sized trout from Granite Creek. It is about a 20-30 minute drive south, depending on the road construction. (It was pretty bad a couple of days.) You may want to check it out. It wasn’t heavily fished while I was there.

Response:

Question:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I was in a round bucks bag tube. Would a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.

I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.  A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.  It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. The bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.  Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.  If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. I’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. My fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.  He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.  See illustration below. [Image] Many is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.  I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.  When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.  At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. Tubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITEOne thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to <BRthe wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I <BRwas in a round bucks bag tube. <PWould a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.</BLOCKQUOTE I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.&nbsp; A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.&nbsp; It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. <PThe bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.&nbsp; Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.&nbsp; If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. <PI’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. <PMy fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.&nbsp; He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.&nbsp; See illustration below. <PMany is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.&nbsp; I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.&nbsp; When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.&nbsp; At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. <PTubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. <PAnglerboy <P– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. <BR<A HREF="http://www.midtown.net/~angler/"http://www.midtown.net/~angler/</A <BR&nbsp;</HTML Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:tempnsmailRA.jpeg" <encoded_portion_removed RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/2Q==

Response:

Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

Response:

Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor U.K. Lancashire. : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

Response:

: One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to : the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I : was in a round bucks bag tube. : I find the wind to be a real pain in the rear, and would be interested : in hearing about any type of anchor used by other belly boaters.  On a big : lake it is hard to maintain a steady position or to determine how fast : your fly is dragging due to the wind. The best way that I have to deal with the wind is to keep at my back. This allows me to slowly kick so that I can maintain postion and steer the tube back into the position I want. It does not take much effrot to do this, and I can stay "put" in any wind that I can cast in. Of course, this is not always possible with some spots that I want to fish. Then, I’ll drift like I would in a canoe and paddle back to drift again. And remember, whitecaps breaking over your casting apron is nature’s way of telling you to knock off the foolishness and head for shore. ;- — Jon Porter

Response:

Sue wants to know, will a big fish tow you round the water. Should we get in some water skiing practice

We have a local lake that the ODF&W (Oregon Dept. of Fish & Wildlife) puts the spawned out hatchery steelhead into each year.  A friend of mine hooked one last spring and spent two hours with it towing him around the lake.  He couldn’t do a thing about it.  And, he ended up taking the fish home for a few meals. — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length. Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader. for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips. Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK Ralph H

 I second the idea to take a piss before you enter the water!!! HEHEHE. Looks kinda silly kicking to the shore only to urinate all over your waders because you can’t pull em down fast enogh…

Response:

Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions.

Just a couple general pointers. 1. Wear a lfe vest. 2. Scout the area and find a nice flat, firm bottom on which to enter. 3. Make sure you’re familiar with your tube. Think about how you’d get out in a problem. 4. Inflate it properly. Not too much and not too little. 5. Keep it close to shore – real close –  until you’re comfortable, and understand your ability. 6. Pee before you begin. 7. Narrow down your  tackle to the bear minimum. 8. Consider doing it on a small body of water on a calm day. Every spring, after a long winter of no physical activity, I get leg cramps my first time or two out. Keep it slow, stop and rest as soon as a cramp begins. Good luck, John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. In fact what is the best rod length. How long a leader. How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. Any more tips. Dave Bolt UK

Response:

Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod.

At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length.

Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader.

for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further.

however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube.

I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips.

Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK

Ralph H

Response:

Question:

Hello all I just got into fly fishing and fly tying this year and boy I am having fun!. Now I live in Colorado and want to try catching salmon on a fly rod instead of using the old snaging rod. What flys would you suggest tying? Thanks and good fishing. Brad.

Response:

Hello all I just got into fly fishing and fly tying this year and boy I am having fun!. Now I live in Colorado and want to try catching salmon on a fly rod instead of using the old snaging rod. What flys would you suggest tying? Thanks and good fishing. Brad.

If you’re talking about kokanee, just try using regular sockeye flies tied on #14 or #16 hooks.  Comets w/a beadhead, flash flies, etc.   You can also use your regular trout nymphs.  Either way, you need bears and rain to complete the illusion. If you don’t mean kokes, I have NO idea what you’re talking about.  Knock yourself out, whatever you’re up to. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, or.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I just got into fly fishing and fly tying this year and boy I am having fun!. Now I live in Colorado and want to try catching salmon on a fly rod instead of using the old snaging rod. What flys would you suggest tying? Thanks and good fishing. Brad. If you’re talking about kokanee, just try using regular sockeye flies tied on #14 or #16 hooks.  Comets w/a beadhead, flash flies, etc.   You can also use your regular trout nymphs.  Either way, you need bears and rain to complete the illusion. If you don’t mean kokes, I have NO idea what you’re talking about.  Knock yourself out, whatever you’re up to. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, or.

Ah gee see how you are :^) yes I mean kokanee and thanks for the suggestion. I have no need for the bears so thay can stay home.

Response:

Question:

What are the trout hitting in New Hampshire this time of year?  I’ll be there at the end of this month.  Any recommendations on Flies, places to fish?  I’ll be in the southern pertion of the state, new Lale Sunnapee. All advice is greatly appreciated.

Response:

Helen, Being in Vermont I can give some ideas that you may be able to extrapolate for NH.  Currently there are cahills and sulphurs along with caddis both black and tan.  I should not think you could ever go wrong with an elk hair caddis anywhere in NH and VT.  Yellow and cream colored soft hackles fished dragging in the riffles should produce fish there as well.  Tricos are starting to appear as well (size 20-24 white and black mayflies).  I would be happy to help in anyway I can. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont

Response:

What are the trout hitting in New Hampshire this time of year?  I’ll be there at the end of this month.  Any recommendations on Flies, places to fish?  I’ll be in the southern pertion of the state, new Lale Sunnapee. All advice is greatly appreciated.

Small (16-20) nymphs and the hatch of the day.  Check with the local fly shop.   This has been a real weird summer with first cold and now heat.  Nothing has been too predictable except that fishing is always better than working. — Len —– Leonard Campbell                                                                                                 solicitations!!

Response:

Another nice place to try your hand at is cole pond near Enfield Center off of 4A.  Take bog pond road and go about 2 miles.  sign for cole pond on the right and it is about a 1/2 mile hike up to it. Fly fishing only and make sure to bring a tube or portage a canoe up as it is tough to fish from the shore in most spots although there are a couple areas were you can wade out.

Response:

Rick, You will be not too far from the Contoocook River, which has a fly fishing only section in W. Henniker.  Also the Masocoma river that runs out of Lake MAscoma can be pretty good.  There are other rivers like the Sugar that are a little further away to the south of where you will be.   There are also some trout ponds worth looking into.  Give me an E-mail when it gets a little closer to your trip, and I might be able to give you a better idea of where to go. Tight Lines, Gerry Crow

Response:

I’ve learned I will be spending a week in New London, New Hampshire in early July, with afternoons off from my meetings and lectures.  I don’t know a single thing about the area.  Could someone be so kind as to educate me about the streams nearby and inform me about the fly fishing possibilities?  

Rick, you’re in luck: there are a couple of very good rivers near enough to New London to get your flyfishing fix. Should be some good dry fly action as well… There’s some great fishing for browns and ‘bows on the Contoocook River near Henniker, NH, roughly 40 minutes from New London: go south on I89 to Rt 202, follow 202 west to the Rt 114 exit. Take a right at the end of the ramp (114 N), then take the first left past the gas station (Davidson Rd). Follow Davidson for roughly 1 mile to a stop sign, where you then take a left onto Liberty Hill Road (this will take you back across Rt 202). The road quickly turns into unpaved/graded. About 1/10th mile from the bridge over 202, take the first right turn onto Western Road (another dirt road), follow this to a fork (an equipment dealer on your right) and take the left fork down to the river. This road parallels the best fishing on the Contoocook… Another piece of river worth trying is the Sugar River in Guild, NH. Take I89 north to Rt 11 south. When you cross into the town of Guild (~10 miles from New London) from the town of Sunapee, look immediately to the left for Paradise Road (~1/10 mile from the town line) which will take you over the Sugar River. You then see an old railroad grade that roughly parallels the river. Good place to start – the next couple of miles of river heading downstream can be quite good… Finally, the Warner River can also be quite good, and it’s not far from New London (~15 miles). Take I89 south to Rt 103 west, then follow 103 for ~2 miles, then look for the township of Roby (with Roby Road perhaps being the only marker of same ;^). Roby Road heads north from 103 and parallels the Lane River. The confluence of the Lane with the Warner marks the downstream end of a good section of Warner water. Work your way upstream from there for another couple of miles looking for the good spots… Although none of the above is a closely guarded secret, I hope this helps you keep your casting arm limber during your stay in Cow Hampster. None of these rivers would be confused with *any* of the multiple branches of the Salmon River, but they’ll certainly be better than leaving your rod home ;^) Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < <     "What doesn’t kill you…will hurt like heck!"     < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Hi y’all, I’ve learned I will be spending a week in New London, New Hampshire in early July, with afternoons off from my meetings and lectures.  I don’t know a single thing about the area.  Could someone be so kind as to educate me about the streams nearby and inform me about the fly fishing possibilities?  Email would be great, posting here is fine.  I’ll happily trade info on Idaho and the general area. Thanks. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Question:

The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!! Not always true.  My front teeth bear witness to that sad fact.  It’s been my experience that most often you’ll need a roll in a sea kayak nearer to shore where the waves are a lot different (less regular), and where rocks can lurk just under the surface to rearrange the faces of the less wary.

Well, that is why I said "as much".   But you’re probably right that nearshore is where you’re most likely to capsize, right where rocks are most hazardous.  Not only are the waves less regular, they’re also bigger and more likely to break in the shallow spots where the rocks lurk. — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

Response:

I saw a good video several years ago put out by Perception when I was taking the ACA instructor class.  It shows a young lady sitting in her boat on the pool deck.  She puts the top of her head on the pool deck while keeping the boat upright…  It helps to have that kind of flexibility but it’s not required.  I’m sure you could get it from them. I have to agree  with the post by Chip Mefford.  In the sessions I’ve taught the technique he describes works best for most people.  There are basically 3 types of learners (get the ACA instructors man. for details on that) & you need to teach different people different ways.  I was able to teach my 110 lb. daughter to roll an open canoe (72 lb. outfitted) in about two hours so it’s technique not muscle. Dave Stockdill

Response:

Grace Under Pressure – Learning the Kayak Roll is good c-c only The Kayaker’s Edge also has a section on both the c-c & the sweep roll.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the fly fishing world about 15 years ago there was a deluge of articles on the mechanics of fly casting.  Most were written by excellent casters who really did know how to cast but who really didn’t have a clear visualization of what they were actually doing.  Videotaping eventually provided the correct answers.   Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Yes, watch what they do and don’t pay to much attention to what they say they do. THE KAYAKERS EDGE BY KENT FORD is one of the best how to kayaking videos.It has a lot more than rolling. Buy it,rent it or borrow it,after you have seen it you’ll probably buy it,if you aren’t to short of cash. My 11 year old grand son taught himself to roll I guess from watching the video. I sure didn’t teach him.                     gene

Response:

Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where?

In "The Kayaker’s Edge", amidst all of the other intro and skill stuff, is about a ten minute bit on rolling. It’s got some good camera work that follows the roll above and below the water’s surface. It should be helpful for a lot of people. Paul

Response:

Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob

"Grace Under Pressure" is an excellent video discussing the C-to-C roll.  It discusses the on-side, off-side and the hand roll.  I highly recommend it.  This was the video I was shown before I even got into a kayak for the first time.  I eventually bought a copy for myself and find it very useful. Viewing that in combination with reading the Bomb Proof Roll has helped me a lot.  I would check with your local REI, I know they have the book, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have the video.  Or, any shop that carries kayaking equipment should have the video or know where to find it.   Also, most of the paddling companies who do mail order has it. I know for sure that the latest NRS catalog has it.  You can even order a catalog from NRS’s home page at http://www.gorp.com/nrs.htm Happy rolling! Harriet

Response:

| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I sincerely apologize for the confusion and appreciate the kind advice sent my way.  The original post appeared to be a sea kayaking fellow who was concentrating on the motion of his paddle — with no mention of hip snap.   Is there anyone out there in a sea kayak who can help him? Again, sorry for the confusion!!!

What confusion?  I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ve a good roll.  I really do not believe the roll is any different (in principle) in a sea kayak or a whitewater kayak.  The hip snap is just as much the key to the roll in a sea kayak.  Your advice was right on.  The boats do feel differently, and some sea kayaks can be very difficult to roll (certainly not all!), but the basic principles of rolling are exactly the same. The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!! — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

Response:

I’ve read two full descriptions, with pictures, of Eskimo rolls.  No wonder beginners get confused.  It took me several readings of both and careful scrutiny of the photographs to realize that the descriptions were essentially the same.  To wit:      Leverage roll  =  C-to-C roll      Screw roll  =  Sweep roll Beyond that, the descriptions spend more words on what to do with the paddle than on the mechanics of the hip roll which actually rights the boat.   Underwater, a person’s head and upper body have much more "sail area" than the paddle.  Positioning the paddle properly sets up the boater’s upper body in a brace for the hip roll.  Once the boat flips upright, the paddle brace helps the boater roll upright. In the fly fishing world about 15 years ago there was a deluge of articles on the mechanics of fly casting.  Most were written by excellent casters who really did know how to cast but who really didn’t have a clear visualization of what they were actually doing.  Videotaping eventually provided the correct answers.   Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

What confusion?  I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ve a good roll.  I really do not believe the roll is any different (in principle) in a sea kayak or a whitewater kayak.  The hip snap is just as much the key to the roll … The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!!

Not always true.  My front teeth bear witness to that sad fact.  It’s been my experience that most often you’ll need a roll in a sea kayak nearer to shore where the waves are a lot different (less regular), and where rocks can lurk just under the surface to rearrange the faces of the less wary.

Response:

re: Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

Response:

Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

Hips, hips, hips, and keep the head underwater for as long as humanly possible.  :-) — Macalester College St. Paul, Minnesota http://sonic.bigelow.macalstr.edu

Response:

Wow!  I bet this turns into a monster thread….it might even exceed "Peeing in your boat"… I taught myself to roll with no outside instruction and, since I’m too dense to make sense out of pictoral instructions, virtually no book instruction. To start off the hundred-or-so tips you’ll undoubtdedly receive here, I would say go out and purchase a diving mask and wear it when you practice rolling.   I got nowhere except a bad sinus infiction before I started using a noseclip.   Using the noseclip I began to make progress; but once I started wearing the diving mask things really picked up – with tha mask on it is much easier to just sort of hang there upside-down and think things out before trhing to roll up. There are three or four other things I’m tempted to say, but I’ll leave them to those that know better than I do.

Response:

A full face mask really helps while you are learning. Also the vido Kayakers Edge is white water but very good. Watch how others do it and don,t listen to closely to how they say they do it.

Response:

re: Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

I taught myself a simple cross roll first.  Noseclip, mask, a watcher to give you feed back.  I wraped the end of the paddle in an old sleeping pad and stuck it in the rungs of my ladder leading into the lake.  Once I could do that OK, I moved to float on the end of the paddle.  Finally I could do a simple roll with just the paddle.  Then I learned a real extended paddle roll.  Never could get a screw roll down with the heavier sea kayak – might have to do with narrow paddle and lots of surface area and deck rigging. Have fun Steve

Response:

| re: | | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks George: I think the best thing would be to take lessons. But, let me say a coupla things about rolls in general, at least for *me*.  If you get up part way and seem to sink back at the last moment, you are trying to raise your head too fast. I have found that keeping my eyes on the paddle as it sweeps back forces me to keep my head down. I also use the extended paddle roll, which IMHO is the best for a sea kayak roll beginner. Don’t forget the hip snap, try to have another person watch as you try your rolls, they might see you doing things that you aren’t aware of. Also, wearing a PFD during your attempts, even in a pool, helps to get started. Finaly, I have to practice each spring or I find that I get "rusty". Good luck. —         )                                J sales rep-sgi     http://www.dayton.sgi.com dayton, oh        513-258-7441  fax 7449

Response:

Take a pool rolling class.  Four or five sessions should do it.  I also recommend the dive mask starting out.  The AMC and Casco Bay here in the Boston area offer these with a boat for under $100.  Good chance to try out other boats and meet some people to paddle with. — Regards, Sean

Response:

Some things to help with learning to roll, roll, roll yer boat: 1)  Relax and have fun with this.  It’s NOT a muscle thing so just relax. 2)  Start by rolling the boat over with your hips on the edge of a pool      or dock or something to hold onto. 3)  Graduate to using a couple of kickboards after you can do the hip      roll easily on both sides from the solid hold. 4)  Reach out to the side as far as possible using the boards before      rolling up. 5)  Keep your head down as you "slinky" up rolling your hips first and      FOLLOWING with your head.  If your head comes out first before the      boat is over you’ll never make it. 6)  Once you can do this easily on one or both sides, take one of the      kickboards away.  One kickboard is about the lift that your paddle      will give, so try this until you can do it easily. 7)  NOW you can use your paddle, but it helps to have someone hold the end     at first.  With the paddle parallel to the boat as you go over with     your good hand forward (usually your writing hand, but eventually either)     sweep the paddle across the TOP of the water until the paddle is     perpendicular to the boat.  This forces your non-writing hand elbow     to slide UNDER the boat bottom and out of the water (when the boat is     upside down.  Then do the hip-slinky thing to roll the boat over and     follow with your head.  It helps to have someone watch and hold the     paddle a couple of times to get the feel and to have them watch that the     blade angle is flat on the surface of the water before you hip snap.  Don’t give up, it’s damn hard to do at first, but once you "get it" you     will wonder why it seemed so hard. 9)  Relax!  It doesn’t take a lot of muscle, it’s a technique thing. 10) Once you get it, play around with different ways of using your paddle     to get up and intentionally make yourself roll over in all sorts of     funny positions to learn to get into position from almost any angle etc… This is called the C to C roll, the eskimo is real similar but sweeps the blade rather than placing it perpendicular before you roll (kinda like doing the set-up for a C to C at the same time you roll your hips.  Most people need to learn the hip snap before putting it all together.  The eskimo roll from the stern of the boat rather than the bow is called a styr roll and is accomplished be sitting up from leaning back rather than from sweeping back from leaning forward. One of the greatest joys is your first roll in whitewater!  : ) Happy rolling! Robb

Response:

| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

Response:

| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

i learned my good side roll with the standard c to c hip  snap, with a wide blade paddle. i never learned my bad side roll untill i started doing extended braces to the point where i could get my head in the water and skull in place .when you can do this with your head under the water you have mastered the hard part which is getting your head out without going back down. think it through in your head, it helps, and practice,practice,practice. just my 2 cents worth. my bad side roll was learned with my much prefered narrow blade paddle

Response:

I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

The above was in response to: | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

I sincerely apologize for the confusion and appreciate the kind advice sent my way.  The original post appeared to be a sea kayaking fellow who was concentrating on the motion of his paddle — with no mention of hip snap.   Is there anyone out there in a sea kayak who can help him? Again, sorry for the confusion!!! Happy paddling! Cheers Elizabeth

Response:

I agree with all that has been said and especially encourage you to try the mask or goggles. I am still working on a consistent roll. My biggest problem is that I tend to lift my head too soon. I didn’t even believe i was doing it at first so I put on the goggles and opened my eyes and sure enough I was looking at the ceiling intstead of at my paddle or the pool bottom. As long as I look at the bottom I tend to come up without fail. Good luck Lisa

well, sheesh, I really kinda hate to say this;   I readily concurr with all these folks that all these aids may very well be the cats meow for some folk, but my experience has been rather different.   It took me a solid two years before I had a "bomber" roll. These days I can usually teach a 2 person class to roll in one pool session, 2 sessions at the outside.  I bought into the whole reading, goggles, nose plugs, video whatever. , , , , the thing is, where visualation may be of some assistance for some things, rolling is SO counterintuitive that for most people, making an attempt at visualizing what is going on only handicaps their progression.  I was honored once opon a time to teach alongside Eric Jackson of Adventure Schools. EJ can (I’ve seen him do it) teach a group of half a dozen people who have never held a paddle to roll in about an hour without getting out of his boat most of the time.  I can say with some certainty, that rolling is a BODY move, where sitting around underwater, upside down, looking around with your goggles on, is ridiculously disorienting. Visualizing is an INTELLECTUAL exercise. If your try to teach your intellect to teach your body to do something that is very counter to instinct, you are fighting an uphill battle with a slim chance at success. Facts are, your body wants air, in order to get air, it wants to get its air ports, (yer head) out of the water, as long as you are trying to get your head out first, you will fail.   I cannot teach as Eric does, I teach in the water, I only demonstrate that the roll is in fact quite easy, does not require a paddle, and can be done on or off sides. I after demonstrating these things so as to make them appear as easy as they in fact are, I beach my boat, get in the water with my students, sans paddles, take them by the hands, get good eye contact and show them how to use their bodies to make the move. Then I give them their paddle back, posistion it for them as they go through the motions a few times, each time gently correcting any attempts to use strength over grace, each time easing my grip on the paddle untill I only have a few fingers on the blade. I then usually let the blade go after positioning it a few times, soon I am not doing anything other than being close by as they execute their first few rolls. More often than not, my students are not aware that they have rolled on their own untill I tell them.  I guess my point is, rather than spend a lot of time concerning oneself with the "Okay, I’m upside down now, so if I put this hand here, cant the shaft this way, put that hand there, turn my head this way, and then, , ,  uh, I need to , , , uh, , , wait, lemme see, I need to twich this way and push that way and move the paddle this other way, , , wait, uh, , I need to, , , , crap, I need to breath!!! , , arrgghhh!!!"  Hook up with an instructor and have them teach you. Post Script;   It is a little strange in some sense, less so in others, that by and large both, in my experience, women very often learn the roll much faster than their S.O.’s in class. There are a lot of things at play here, however, i.m.e. the women seldom attempt to strong arm the roll, and the men nealy always do. In fact the more athletic the man, the more difficult it is to get them to let themselves roll. As another digression, I’ve had folk with a background in oriental martial arts specificly Akido, roll on their first try after having the roll slowly demonstrated.     Once I had a gal tell me that she though the paddle was messing her up, then executed a hands roll after about 2 tries. That perplexes me to this day. It was a real pill gettting her to roll with a paddle.

Response:

, , , , the thing is, where visualation may be of some assistance for some things, rolling is SO counterintuitive that for most people, making an attempt at visualizing what is going on only handicaps their progression. … I can say with some certainty, that rolling is a BODY move, where sitting around underwater, upside down, looking around with your goggles on, is ridiculously disorienting. Visualizing is an INTELLECTUAL exercise. If your try to teach your intellect to teach your body to do something that is very counter to instinct, you are fighting an uphill battle with a slim chance at success. Facts are,

Well, I, for one, would like to state that this depends very much on who you are and how you learn, and different people learn in different manners.   In particular, I *absolutely* need to visualize a manuever before I can do it – and once I’ve visualized it completely, I really *can* do it.  It’s very frustrating for me when people of the opposite type (going for the "feel" of it *without* the visualization) try to teach me any physical skill.  I just can’t do it. On the other hand, contrary to most people’s experience, I very easily picked up my "off" side roll, once I had a good "on" side roll.  It was, for me, literally no more than reversing what I did on the "on" side.  No "learning" of body movements was required; all I had to do was visualize the reversed movements. What I’m trying to say is that we’re all different, and it’s hard to generalize that this way or that way is the best way to learn for everyone.  Some of us require visualization, and some of us require the body training. I guess my point is, rather than spend a lot of time concerning oneself with the "Okay, I’m upside down now, so if I put this hand here, cant the shaft this way, put that hand there, turn my head this way, and then, , ,  uh, I need to , , , uh, , , wait, lemme see, I need to twich this way and push that way and move the paddle this other way, , , wait, uh, , I need to, , , , crap, I need to breath!!! , , arrgghhh!!!"  Hook up with an instructor and have them teach you.

I agree that an instructor helps, on the other hand.  I need to watch an instructor to *see* exactly what he was doing.  But then I needed to think it through and visualize the whole process. — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

Response:

 Once I had a gal tell me that she though the paddle was messing her up, then executed a hands roll after about 2 tries. That perplexes me to this day. It was a real pill gettting her to roll with a paddle.

I believe thqt there is really something to this idea that: "this clumsy paddle messes me up when I try to roll" My son could do hand rolls, both sides, the second day trying to roll, however he is still having trouble using a paddle to roll. I think that when you have a paddle in your hands, you use it and forget about the body. If you don’t have a paddle, you KNOW you have to use your body. Makes sense to me. Jon Hauris

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? Thanks for your help. Bruce — —                        Andrew Pea & Co., Inc               Information and Technology Consultants                 Publisher, The Prairienet Companion                               -=*=-               Office 217-352-7830 * FAX 217-359-1761

Response:

: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck. And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

Response:

Bruce, another source of rod building info (or anything to do with ANY aspect of fly fishing) is for you to subscribe to the Flyfish list.  We have several professional rod builders on the list and plenty of other people building rods. These type of questions come up all the time.  To subscribe, do the following: Message:  subscribe flyfish (space) your name You will then receive an incredible amount of mail from the list, so enjoy!! Frank Church Goshen, In

Response:

: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck.

Thanks, I’ll need all the help I can get! And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g

Yeah, it was fun. And I defy anyone to come up with something new I havn’t heard — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

– |      =     _                   |                                |^M M|

Response:

Question:

Careful of the lower Owens right now running 700 CFS (alot of water) They are trying to move as much water through as they can before the snowpack runoff begins. Lower owens can be tough wading evenat lower water levels. Pete

Response:

Be sure to take you knee pads for the Owens.  Sneaking up on those fish takes a lot of patience or a curved rod for shooting from behind a bush. Many FinShakes Ray Chapa San Antonio, Tx — Ray Chapa

Response:

try big tejunga creek just outside la crescenta, between the resevoir and upstrem to the bridge – access is a long walk down a fire break off big tejunga canyon rd, park a half mile downstream of the bridge – wild bows in spectacular canyon.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.net com.com!netnews Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Netcom Lines: 10 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-lb1-04.ix.netcom.com Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend? There are several ares, West Fork of the San Gabreal, Bear Creek and the best is Lower Owens outside of Bishop this time of the year.  You also have the Pacific at your door step.  If you need more info on the Bishop area let me know.  Joe

I caught the flyfishing bug on the Lower Owens right outside of Bishop.  For me the key was that I used the most incredible guide I’ve ever had the privilage to fish with (to this day I’ve never even heard stories about anyone that fishes as well as he does).   My 1st day ever fishing with a fly rod (& probably the 10th time of any kind of fishing in my life) I landed 25 wild brown trout – if I could have been quicker to strike (as on his first "strike" call, instead of the 2nd or 3rd…) it would have been more.  I was gut hooked in the worst (best) way…   Harry Blackburn Eastside Guide Service Mammoth Lakes, CA 619/934-6457 Tell him Ant sent you…  He also knows about all the best places to fish in the Mammoth/Bishop area, the variety is incredible.

Response:

Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend?

Response:

Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend?

There are several ares, West Fork of the San Gabreal, Bear Creek and the best is Lower Owens outside of Bishop this time of the year.  You also have the Pacific at your door step.  If you need more info on the Bishop area let me know.  Joe

Response:

So if I were going to the Owens in May for hanggliding, should I plan on some fishing also? Old Montana Flyfisherman.

Response:

So if I were going to the Owens in May for hanggliding, should I plan on some fishing also? Old Montana Flyfisherman.

Yes, but fishing from hanggliders is restricted to the 2 miles immediately below Pleasant Valley Dam, and any fish caught from a hangglider must be released to the water where they were taken.   There is talk that this section of the river will be made hanggliders only in the near future.

Response: