Question:

You’re actually going to fish with them. I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

You’re actually going to fish with them.

yup! hell, i can’t tie anywhere as nice as you guys….. hell, they’re meant to catch fish! I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune.

well, your (and others) have gone up in value, as there will soon be one less set on the market. –waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks fro everything Frank!  Draive safely. Op

Response:

<<  "Frank Church"   << I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator   Thank you so much. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

God it’s got to be the first clave ever!!  See Wayno on the right.  Go to www.csse.monsah.edu.au/~steve/clave.jpg

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

Question:

Hello all, I did a search for past messages and didn’t find any help. Could anyone suggest a book(s) for info on flyfishing in Montana? It would be much appreciated. I live in E. Washington and am looking to make a few trips to into Montana this year. The books don’t have to be super-detailed–I’d prefer overviews to an entire book on just one river. However, if the book covered a "region" (like Yellowstone Park), that would be fine. I’m just looking for some basic info on times, hatches, accessability, etc. Thanks! -TyKo

Response:

Flyfisher’s guide to Montana by Greg Thomas is pretty good. The Montana Angling Guide by Fothergill and Sterling is also good. The former has a better narrative and information on lodging, dining, etc. The latter has better maps.  All my opinions, of course. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I did a search for past messages and didn’t find any help. Could anyone suggest a book(s) for info on flyfishing in Montana? It would be much appreciated. I live in E. Washington and am looking to make a few trips to into Montana this year. The books don’t have to be super-detailed–I’d prefer overviews to an entire book on just one river. However, if the book covered a "region" (like Yellowstone Park), that would be fine. I’m just looking for some basic info on times, hatches, accessability, etc. Thanks! -TyKo

Response:

Flyfisher’s guide to Montana by Greg Thomas is pretty good. The Montana Angling Guide by Fothergill and Sterling is also good. The former has a better narrative and information on lodging, dining, etc. The latter has better maps.  All my opinions, of course.

I found the latter extremely helpful because of all the pullout maps, in a ring binder format  you can easily lay flat.

Response:

Question:

OK, I’m mostly a catch and release fisherman except for panfish, but I saw an article in an old flyfishing magazine that asked this question… What if you are fishing in a Gold Medal, C & R only trout stream and you catch a trout, bring it in, and it dies on you right in your hands? The author debates throwing it into the bushes or just letting it float down the river, but since it’s Gold Medal Water there is usually a crowd or wardens around and he’d get busted. He suggested making believe he was "reviving" the fish and digging a hole in the mud and putting some rocks on top of it.  He also made an observation that there seems to be a lot more rockpiles on Catch & Release waters than there used to be. I didn’t get to see the next issue to find out what the readers responses were, but it makes you think…. Dan Dow here http://www.angelfire.com/mac/dandow/kingfisher/homepage is my homepage… PS—found in Fly Rod & Reel Nov/Dec 1997

Response:

OK, I’m mostly a catch and release fisherman except for panfish, but I saw an article in an old flyfishing magazine that asked this question…

Well, Dan the Man, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum here in the past, and I have no doubt that a Deja search of past ROFF posts for "C&R" will more than answer your question. My short opinion?   If the law says C&R, you’d better R.   There are, of course, more layers to be discussed, like why didn’t you bring it in fast enough to revive it?   Is it a foolish waste of a good fish to not eat it?   Blah, blah, blah, etc.   We been there, we done that. HTH, Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’m mostly a catch and release fisherman except for panfish, but I saw an article in an old flyfishing magazine that asked this question… What if you are fishing in a Gold Medal, C & R only trout stream and you catch a trout, bring it in, and it dies on you right in your hands? The author debates throwing it into the bushes or just letting it float down the river, but since it’s Gold Medal Water there is usually a crowd or wardens around and he’d get busted. He suggested making believe he was "reviving" the fish and digging a hole in the mud and putting some rocks on top of it.  He also made an observation that there seems to be a lot more rockpiles on Catch & Release waters than there used to be. I didn’t get to see the next issue to find out what the readers responses were, but it makes you think…. Dan Dow here http://www.angelfire.com/mac/dandow/kingfisher/homepage is my homepage… PS—found in Fly Rod & Reel Nov/Dec 1997

_____  Japanese always carry a razor sharp knife.  The rock piles are empty bottles of Soy Sauce. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’m mostly a catch and release fisherman except for panfish, but I saw an article in an old flyfishing magazine that asked this question… Well, Dan the Man, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum here in the past, and I have no doubt that a Deja search of past ROFF posts for "C&R" will more than answer your question. My short opinion?   If the law says C&R, you’d better R.   There are, of course, more layers to be discussed, like why didn’t you bring it in fast enough to revive it?   Is it a foolish waste of a good fish to not eat it?   Blah, blah, blah, etc.   We been there, we done that. HTH, Joe F.

OTOH, you could ask the question in the political thread which candidate should be C&R’d and which one should be C&K’d.  That way all the bullshit could be contained in one thread.  Neat, eh? Peter = always striving to be helpful

Response:

Question:

FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve

Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

FFGuy wrote 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Aside from being a furry little guy with a duck bill, what’s a platypus?

It’s a water bladder.  Basically an extremely tough plastic bag with a tube and a valve that you bite down on to drink the water.  As you can’t tell from my horrible description, they are a pretty cool invention.  They are nearly indestructable, insulated, and can carry a relatively large amount of water conveniently.  I use one (actually a generic equivalent) while fishing, hiking, biking, boarding, etc. Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

Here is my top ten Excluding Rod,Reel and Line 1    Flask of Coffee 2    Cheese Sandwiches 3    Cigars 4    Lighter 5    Bow Net 6    Sportsclip Tool 7    Solarshield Glasses 8    Gink 9    Floating Fly Box (inc flies) 10  Waders

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Get an average sized fanny pack or a vest with only a few pockets, and then only take what you can fit in it.  Limited carry capacity is great aid to self-discipline.  Besides, you’ll look real neat and tidy to the daddy-in-law. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

I’ll assume you’re talking about fly fishing in a river/stream and about EQUIPMENT, not supplies. So here’s my list in order of importance: 1)Rod/Reel, 2)Vest, 3)Glasses or flip-focals(for seeing), 4)Waders, 5)Polarized sun glasses, 6)Hat. 7)Fanny Pack. Any other item I consider a supply and should fit into #2 or #7 above.

Response:

Just thought of a take-off on the saying Lee Wulff coined regarding C & R. "Limit what you carry. Don’t carry your limit!" What do you think?

Response:

8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

This has to be the least entrant for the top ten. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing.

man, you’re slippin. you forgot GINK. you know, why go on the river with those lesser quality floatants when you can have the best. thats GINK, the best damn floatant your hard-earned money can buy. here, i’ll spell it out for you, G-I-N-K. i’ll share a little known roff secret with ya pal. the inventor of GINK is a once-in-a-blue-moon poster here at roff. if you ask him nicely, i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle of GINK. waldo the omnipotent flytier and man about stream

Response:

i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle …

I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ? The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). This has to be the least entrant for the top ten.

Oops, that makes no sense. I meant to write the "least likely entrant." — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt: 1. Polarized shades. 2.  Bill hat with flip down magnifiers. 3.  Fly box with "hatches" in dries and nymphs. 4.  Extra leader and 3 sizes of tippet depending on what kind of fishing. 5.  Nippers. 6.  Rain gear, preferably Goretex. 7.  Wading staff.  (Goes along with the flip down mags – I’m old) and water bottle. 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant). 9.  Hemostats. 10.  Landing net. There has to be room also for a can of V-eye-eeeeena Sausages. Of course my list is like going through the express line at the super market — 10 items or less.  And the woman behind me swears under her breath because I have 15.  <G Dave LaCourse

Response:

License.  Nothing worse than haveing to try some place to buy a license earl in the am for some dufuss that forgot to get one the night before. Drying crystals?  Those neat blue and highly absorbent paper towels that are FREE in the service station work swell.  Just squeeze the wet and hopefully chewed up and slimy fly with a piece of one and dress with Aequel or Daves bug Float or Blue Ribbon Super Dry Fly Float or SA dry fly floatant or Loon easy Dry or Hydrostop or Albolene and get back to fishing. Ten most important beside the obvious rod/reel/waders with belt:

snip 8.  Drying crystals (dessicant).

snip Dave LaCourse

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

i’d bet my last dollar he would send you a complimentary bottle … I’ll take THAT bet. Think he’d send me one too ?

        there’s another bet you’d lose, forty.  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The absolute best thing to use for drying a wet dry fly is an Amadou. Among the many semi-liquids, Dave’s Bug Float is the best. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

  george is among the most generous men i’ve ever met.  it’s just that he will have a helluva time locating you, under all those damn rocks.

A most generous spammer is still a spammer. Your thing with the rocks is tiresome. Surely a wisecracking wiseacre of your prodigious abilities can do better than to repeat yourself to the point of self parody. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

1. rod, reel & line (duh..) 2. flybox. 1 wheatley(model) should do if you know the water 3. sunglasses 4. pliers 5. some float & sink stuff 6. leaders & extra tippet material 7. hat 8. net 9. raincoat 10. basic first aid And now it’s time to take my own advice.. Cheers, Herman I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Be sure to have a couple of the Holdzit Tool Saver holsters and a gink holder dangling from your vest.  The Tool Saver will keep your hook file and forcepts rust free and your gink handy.  Check the Holdzit Fishing Products site out at http://www.holdzit.com Sharp Hooks, Pat I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I am a beliver in keeping things simple and light. Here is what I pack: 1.  One fly box with drys and nymphs combined.  If I loose that many flys then I should proceed back to camp and have a beer to forget about the crappy day fishing. 2.  Leader/tippet material. 3.  Fishing hat-  it’s tradition. 4.  First aid kit/ thermal blanket 5.  Rod/reel 6.  Snack for emergency situations. 7.  clippers.

Response:

What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

1) Camera 2) A book 3) Some Flies 4) Rod -n- reel 5) Tippet -n- leader 6) Nailclippers 7) Water Munchies 9) T.P. 10) Polarized sunglasses!!! Later,      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

1. Consolidated fly box 2. polarized sunglasses 3. tippet material 4. various sized split shot 5. rod 6. reel 7. fly floatant 10. waders if you really want to travel light, these are all you need (I didn’t include "vest", because everything fits inside it.).  items 9, and 10 might be: 9. camera 10. strike indicators Pete C

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

 Required-rod reel line leader/tippet flies. Extras-spare tippet material, swiss army knife (in belt sheath), spare leaders, camera, net, vest, soap, towel, pliers(needle nosed). Of coarse variations due to water fished and locale are to be considered, for instance in some of the areas I frequent I carry a side arm due to the over abundance of cotton mouths. I probably carry an over abundance of flies unless I’ve been there the day before and conditions haven’t changed. Bear in mind That I fish Florida waters from the bank where snags are a given and fish for bream and bass so there are times when rod/reel selection changes.                                                            John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

Response:

I feel I show up a little light, I have desired but have never needed more stuff.  My vest is packed with the following: 1) 4 fly boxes, each holds 90 flys 2) 3 tippet spools 3) # 6 split shot 4) 4 spare tapered leaders varying length and weight 5) Hemostats 6) Nippers, keeps the dentist off my back 7) 3 liters of water, platypus with bite valve Toilet paper, keeps skid marks to a minimum 9) Gink, keeps George happy 10) Bug net Plus the required stuff wide brim hat, waders, boots, Rod/Reel and a good attitude Al Simpson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water.

I suggest you just cut down on the number of soon to be father in laws. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

Response:

I got into fly fishing during the last year.  soon after my soon to be father-in-law became interested also.  naturally we go fishing together. I bring every possible fishing gadget I can carry, He on the other hand is a brings a rod.  I know I’m carrying 10 more pounds to the stream than he is. He takes every opportunity to point this out.  This spring I plan to cut down on the number of tools I carry to the water. What are the 10 most important items you all would take to the water for a day a fly fishing?

        don’t know that i would take that many items, but i’ll just start listing:         1. small box of flies, about a dozen dries, maybe six or eight nymphs.  patterns would vary, depending upon weather, time of year, stream chosen.         2.  fingernail clippers         3.  couple extra leaders         4.  couple spools of tippet material         5.  gink         6.  hook forcepts, or whatever you call them         7.  strike indicators         8.  lightweight knife         9.  can of tuna and some mustard, plastic utensils         10.  olympus compact 35mm camera         well, i’ll be damned.  there were ten items. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Response:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

The question asks what great Canadian brands of fly rod there might be.  The short answer is none: 1.  No one makes their own blanks (plastic or cane) (so far as I know.) 2.  There are few rod making factories (as distinct from individual craftsmen), none reputed for high-quality rods. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Premi

Question:

I remember an old Charlie Brown cartoon that suggested all babies be issued a banjo at birth. It’s close to impossible to play sad music on a banjo.

B

Question:

Get Dick Brown’s book "Bonefish Fly Patterns". It will be a great help to you. Good Luck!

Response:

Hello all, can anyone suggest the flies I should use while fishing for Bonefish in the Carribbean in late June??  (Esp. the easiest ones to tie) Thanks in advance. Eric Meier

Response:

Hello all, can anyone suggest the flies I should use while fishing for Bonefish in the Carribbean in late June??  (Esp. the easiest ones to tie) Thanks in advance. Eric Meier

Crazy Charlies are the most popular and simple patterns. I would tie pearl, gold, root beer, olive and pink. Use size mostly #4/6 in Mustad 3407 or 34007 hooks. Use #6/8 in Tiemco 800S or 811S hooks as they run a little bigger than Mustad. No eyes for Turtle grass bottoms. Bead chain eyes on some and chrome lead eyes on others for deeper sand bottoms or tide currents. Try to get a guide. You can call me at 800/4000FLY. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

Tara: I am also a fly tyer. What sort of info are you looking for? I believe we have an unfair advantage against the non-stitching tyers — we have so much more in the way of dexterity. Females’ fingers are also so much smaller than males’, so the small hooks and feathers are easier for us to manipulate. We also have experience in handling fibers, in coordinating colors, and combining textures. I’ve been tying for about 15 years now; been stitching for about 25. JulieAnn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m curious if any stitchers know anything about fly tying?  I’ve been interested in this for years, and lo and behold, my SO is an avid fisherman. I am also lurking in the rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, but it seems so male dominated, and you are all so friendly. Plus if any of you have tried it, you could give me the heads up in terms I understand. TIA Tara

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Tara: I’ve tried fly tying, and it was fun, but I never took it up as a hobby. I’m sure SO is thrilled when you express interest in fly tying. My SO’s fisherman roommates were deeply impressed to find out that I had tried fly tying, but they were even more impressed when I told them that one of my female friends from high school had taken it up as a hobby at the behest of her fisherman husband. I saw one of the guys giving his fianc

Question:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Response:

Was there in March and had a great trip. Flies for bonefish- The Gotcha or Crazy Charlie in light tan with no flash. Permit- the raghead crab in light tan or an epoxi crab in light tan, almost white. Clothing light cotton long sleeve shirts. I used a pair of hospital scrub pants for leg protection with Simms gravel guards and flats wading shoes. Your in for a treat. Good luck. Jack

Response:

Going Boning June 25 in Mexico….anyone been who’s got a good story or advice? Flies, clothing, fish etc? Looks to be a great trip. Agator

Casa Blanca is one of the best flats destinations I have been to.  The lodge, food, service, boats, guides and location are all first class.  You will catch many bones, some tarpon, possibly snook, barracuda and permit. You can use a 7 to 8 weight outfit for bones.  I would use a 9 to 10 weight for tarpon, barracudas and permit.  We like Mastery Bonesfish/Tarpon floating lines for fishing out of a boat in warm climates. We used #6 tan to brown Charlies and Snapping Shrimp for bones.  #2/4 Tan crabs for permit ( Rag Head, Turneffe and McCrab ).  Needle fish flies with wire for barracudas. Tarpon liked 2/0 Seahabits, red/white  and red/yellow Seaducers and  Stu Apte style tarpon flies in orange/grizzly, orange/yellow or Cockroach.  Snook seem to like red/yellow or cockroach colors. I would recommend doing some casting in the wind before you go to get in shape. If you are well equipped with tackle and clothing the guides will really take care of the rest. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

Response:

I am testing my posting capabilities.

Response:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

Response:

One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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