Question:

I am planning a trip to Ixtapa, Mexico in March and was hoping someone might have some information on fly fishing opportunities in the area.  The brochures mainly describe fishing for swordfish, but I am hoping there might be a guide that specializes in fly fishing.  Thanks in advance for your help. Rob

Response:

There are bones and snook and even some tarpon inside the sand bars. BUT!!! be prepared. They re all SMALL. Bones average in 1-2# range with snook averaging only at about 2-3# the only tarpon I have ever caouht or seen there have never been over 10# Dont get me wrong they are all great figters and take a fly readilly but just dont go looking for Keys sized fish there. Have fun with ‘em

Response:

I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes.  Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes. Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Largemouth Bass or cichlids  (Peacock Bass family).  You can’t go wrong with black leach patterns.

Response:

Try www.fish-r-us.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes. Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Response:

Question:

If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story… Last weekend my family and I went camping in Yosemite valley.  I will not get into the planning and strategies necessary to camp with seven-month old twins for four nights but suffice to say that I was, by the grace of my dear wife, able to sneak away for a little fishing here and there. If you’ve never been there, well, it really is as pretty as you’ve heard.  And much to my amazement, there are fish swimming in the Merced river — right by the spots that millions (well, hundreds of thousands, anyway) of tourists traverse each summer.  I have always assumed that any water with that ease of access and that many people around would be fished out.  But this isn’t the case here.  I suppose that (a) the artificial fly regulations limit the casual baitfishing that often accompanies camping and (b) most people are there to see El Capitan, Half Dome, and the waterfalls.  Anyway, as it turns out there were fish swimming in both the Merced and Tenaya Creek.  The following is the story of one of those fish. The river is extremely low this time of year — not surprising — and the fishing was challenging.  It was like fishing on a mirror, the water was so smooth, clear, and slow-moving. On the third morning I walked downstream until I got to a spot where Katy and I had seen fish the day before.  The good news was they were rising.  The bad news was I couldn’t figure out what they were rising to as nothing seemed to be coming off the water.  I suspect they were taking emergers of some type but never really figured it out.  I crawled to the water’s edge and started throwing out the usual suspects — small caddis, morning duns, light cahills, mosquitos, even a royal wulff.  Nothing.  Fish would rise just behind my fly so I hadn’t scared them — they had just taken a long look at my offering and found it wanting.  Ok, that’s not working.  I tried fishing a couple of these wet with the same effect.  Just for kicks I tied on an ant and cast that under a few branches.  Nothing. At this point I was getting a little frustrated — I’d been working this pool for practically two hours, watching fish rise the whole time, and hadn’t been able to elicit so much as a strike.  I suppose I should have been happy that I hadn’t scared them yet either but that seemed an awful small victory at the time.  I also started to feel that perhaps I should have paid a little bit closer attention in biology.  Stupid bugs. I retreated to a rock to sit and think for a minute.  Having thrown every likely dry in my box I decided it was time to (as my brother-in-law would say) turn to the dark side.  I started to tie on a royal coachman for an indicator and a small prince nymph dropper off the back of the hook.  As I was sitting working on my knots I heard a rustling in the brushes across the river.  I turned to see what it was and saw a deer and her fawn emerging on the far bank.  They seemed unfazed by my presence — I’m sure they have seen plenty of people — and proceeded down to the river to drink.  Figuring that they would go elsewhere once they caught a good whiff of me (remember it’s day three folks…), I turned my attention back to the river and cast out the double rig. About halfway through the pool — a drift that seemed like it took five minutes — I heard splashing behind me.  The deer were crossing the current and coming my way.  I stopped watching my fly and watched them walk by, no more than 20 feet away at the tree line.  As an aside, I overheard a lot of people that weekend complaining that the only wildlife they saw were squirrels and scrub jays — they just needed to get out of bed a little early, find a likely spot, and sit quietly for a while.  The park isn’t a zoo, folks.  Anyway. I decided that seeing the deer was a pretty cool thing and that I should be happy about that too.  It was getting late and I needed to be heading back to camp to help out with breakfast.  I rationalized that a couple more casts wouldn’t really make me that late, right?  I could walk a little faster back to camp. I cast out once again, just in front of an overhanging branch.  The coachman slowly drifted under the branch and then, suddenly, gone! Eyes to brain:  MSG URGENT you’ve got a strike…  I set the hook and started working on getting the fish in. A couple splashes and quick runs later I was unhooking a surprised 12" brown trout.  I know that the standard joke is that big fish are big and small fish are "nice" or "pretty" or "jewels" but I never get over the brilliant markings on a brown trout.  So colorful. That pretty much made the morning.  I cut off the flies, put them back in my box, reeled up my line, and humped it back to camp double-time — just in time for a fresh batch of pancakes off the griddle.  My brother-in-law and father-in-law (who had both declined to go with me that morning) did not believe me about my catch, but my wife saw the look in my eye and knew that I had indeed been successful in my hunt. I ended up getting back to this spot later in the afternoon, ready to go at it again, but by then the river was full of kids throwing rocks and splashing around.  The moment to fish that spot had passed — we were leaving the next morning.  I know that a more accomplished angler may have pulled five or six fish out of that pool in the two-plus hours that I worked it, but that one fish was like a reward, payoff for patience and sticking at it. Thanks for reading, BW Brad Williams father of twins — fly fisher — teller of long stories * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Brad, Nice story.. I believe you!  :) Made me want to fish!! -Mark If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

Nice story, glad you got a fish. TL MC

Response:

Nice story Brad.  The smooth water in the meadows is fun to fish, but the fish are easier to catch if you go upstream to where the white water is. The fish are wild since they quit stocking hatchery trout in the park. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

<nice story snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Brad Williams

Response:

Question:

Mike Connor: <<Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? It ain’t your imagination, Mike.  I have let me feud with George Gehrke bleed onto these pages and for that I am sorry.  My apologies to you and to all of ROFFdom. Dave LaCourse

Response:

My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve

You’re right Mike, lifes too fricking short and time astream is not enough…. So I’ll start…. George, I’ll say this for you positively , you’ve got balls and I admire that quality in you. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

I’m up for it Mike. Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

Response:

I like this idea! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would make an alternative proposal: That each and every single one of us just shuts up and goes fishing for a few days. That’s right.. starting, say Wednesday night (Greenwich time, minus five hours) nobody posts to ROFF until they’ve spent at least two consecutive days fishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? You know, one of the main reasons I am more or less hopelessly addicted to this place, is that it removes me from my not inconsiderable everyday problems and worries, much as fishing itself does, although in a different way.  I feel I know many of you, far more intimately than one might imagine, given the intrinsic limitations. This is a very strange medium, and I wonder what exciting new aspects of humanity will arise from it. Hopefully not just negative ones. At the moment the medium is restricted to those with the wherewithal and intelligence to participate, this is however increasing daily, and will hopefully result in considerably improved communications on a wide scale.  It seems almost sacrilegious to waste such an opportunity with petty personal feuds. When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason. Distance and lack of personal knowledge are not sufficient to explain this. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants. My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve ? I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ? Give it some thought. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

What keeps me coming back as a newbie is I’m addicted to flyfishing and this is my fishing when I can’t be on the water (which is most of the time .) I love this sport and I enjoy reading this ng. I’ve learned quite a bit in the short time that I’ve been here and I hope to learn a hell of a lot more. I plan on being here for a long time. I’ve also really enjoyed your stories too Mike, I actually sit down here and wonder what you’ve written this time. Thanks and keep up the great stories. Tight lines, Darin

Response:

Thanks Darin, my pleasure, glad you enjoy them. TL MC

Response:

I think if you re-sort the list by sender (or by thread, for that matter) you’ll see the vocal "WE" are small in number and the frequent posters are repetitive in nature, especially on certain subjects. I attempt to limit myself to the threads of genuine interest to me, reviewing the new posts by: 1) Topic 2) Sender 3) Lines and then determine what I really want to read…after reading those, I then choose "MARK ALL READ" and go away until some later time. What keeps me here?  About 3% of the posts….. Larry #:)# Enjoy the eclipse, those of you that get to see it live….for us on the West Coast of the US, it’s on www.exploratorium.edu beginning at 3am PST. Hey Mike….do you get TWO evening hatches today????  =8^0

Response:

Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? You know, one of the main reasons I am more or less hopelessly addicted to this place, is that it removes me from my not inconsiderable everyday problems and worries, much as fishing itself does, although in a different way.  I feel I know many of you, far more intimately than one might imagine, given the intrinsic limitations. This is a very strange medium, and I wonder what exciting new aspects of humanity will arise from it. Hopefully not just negative ones. At the moment the medium is restricted to those with the wherewithal and intelligence to participate, this is however increasing daily, and will hopefully result in considerably improved communications on a wide scale.  It seems almost sacrilegious to waste such an opportunity with petty personal feuds. When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason. Distance and lack of personal knowledge are not sufficient to explain this. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants. My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve ? I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ? Give it some thought. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason.

I don’t know about how things have been where you are, but for the last few weeks it’s been unbearably hot in parts of the US. Hot weather for long stretches tends to shorten tempers, I’ve noticed. It might also be that you’re normally a peacemaker type and thus more likely to notice such things. It could be multiple threads going on about topics that are controversial here, such as C&R or dam breeching, or unpleasant ones such as the guy who won’t shut up about the Hardy reel on ebay. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants.

I’m game. Of course, I’m going to be offline for a few weeks with dreams of wetting a line in the St. Joseph river than the Florida Intracoastal Waterway, so it won’t be hard for me to refrain from online rudeness. I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ?

I can think of a couple of reasons. For one thing, we’ve a swarm of curmudgeonly bastards here. Old-fashioned gentlemen, and young folks who aspire to be old curmudgeonly bastards someday. In crowds like that, a certain amount of shit-slinging is practically background noise in that you notice it only when it stops. The reason why several of us have Golden Retrievers is that few of us are like them. Not to mention, we do have that common interest: fishing. Fishing is pretty fundamental, and helps to moderate the worst of the virtual carnage. At any rate, I don’t see ROFF becoming a love-in. If nothing else, I would dearly like to not see any single one of you naked. I’m sorry, but my tastes are limited to women within four years of my ripe old practically senile 23. I doubt that any of you qualify. I would make an alternative proposal: That each and every single one of us just shuts up and goes fishing for a few days. That’s right.. starting, say Wednesday night (Greenwich time, minus five hours) nobody posts to ROFF until they’ve spent at least two consecutive days fishing. Look at it this way: We’re all either abrasive old bastards or abrasive young bastards. How do you thing George picked the name for his fly rod project? You can’t stuff twenty of them into one newsgroup without at least a little friction. And yet, when you got a bunch of them into the same room, what did they do? They drank, laughed, went fishing, and drank some more. And if we ever decide to have one in the midwest or the Rockies (or I can figure out travel to NC), I’d be there in a heartbeat. Even after having friction with some of the other people likely to be there, what’s the worst that could happen? That I’d have to drink with fellow fishermen? Please don’t throw this here po’ b’rer rabbit inta that mean ol’ briar patch! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN7E52ckBcsCVVLK5AQFlxwQAib10NUq3IcFIDOofXN3xhP77O63ihWXB LBNuADgWBCyJboFoY6/yzLwmRA+g8IOlPPeW5UGIzxJGmD3ebHiE47+oGNrtdLtN v4v2E1ouzd6Fkf4ybdLtam9J2bmll7iit8ylAChDfQ2wmEN6KWdAyUc4I+oJ44KS QSaCeykGu8Q= =QnA3 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– God invented beer and fishing so that 20-something Kansas Jayhawkers wouldn’t take over the world -me

Response:

Question:

I don’t know about other folks out there, but I resent the entire concept of "The Idoit’s Guide to…" series. It’s insulting to imply that people are "idiots" because they want to learn quickly about running, or Window 95, or Wine Tasting, or whatever. Somebody needs to come up with a Genius’ series to combat these Idiot Guides. For my money, Galloway’s book is a classic without insulting the reader with an annoying title.

The books do not suggest that their readers are idiots. There are beginners to various activities who have beginners’ concerns; such people may feel — let’s say through insecurity — that their concerns are not those generally felt by any but the novice. They suspect that they would be regarded as idiotic by more advanced members if they were to express their concerns. This isn’t to say anyone has ever suggested they are indeed idiotic for being new to a particular activity. The books appeal, in a light-hearted way, to such insecurities. It is simply way of attracting the novice audience. Take a look inside one of these books and check how many times the author actually refers to his reader as an "idiot". Not too many, I suspect.

Response:

You should read "Complete Idiots for Dummies" for an explanation of this phenomon. -ssloth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s insulting to imply that people are "idiots" because they want to learn quickly about running, or Window 95, or Wine Tasting, or whatever.

Response:

The title may be "irritating", but some books in the Idiot and Dummy series have famous authors, as with this one. I find the series hit and miss.  Some of the books are too trivial while others, such as Rogers’, are good ones.

Response:

I read parts of it in the bookstore yesterday and it seems pretty good. It had a number of statistics I’ll quote from time to time when the appropiate issue comes up in this newsgroup.

Response:

Joe, you’re joking, right? A lot of late 20th century phenomena irritates the crap out of me, but a light-hearted acknowledgement that most people don’t know as much as they’d like to, something that’s become an incredibly successful series of publications… sorry, I just don’t have time to resent that one. By the way, I think the use of the term "Idiot" in this context dates back to some early 70s shop manuals that were written "…For the Complete Idiot," which were, themselves, light-hearted takeoffs on the centuries-old angling (fly fishing?) classic, "The compleat angler…" Someone more literary than I might wish to cut in and help me out here before I appear even more ignorant. or just plain idiotic, Dirk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about other folks out there, but I resent the entire concept of "The Idoit’s Guide to…" series. It’s insulting to imply that people are "idiots" because they want to learn quickly about running, or Window 95, or Wine Tasting, or whatever. Somebody needs to come up with a Genius’ series to combat these Idiot Guides. For my money, Galloway’s book is a classic without insulting the reader with an annoying title. I read parts of it in the bookstore yesterday and it seems pretty good. It had a number of statistics I’ll quote from time to time when the appropiate issue comes up in this newsgroup. — Joe Ranft

Response:

I don’t know about other folks out there, but I resent the entire concept of "The Idoit’s Guide to…" series. It’s insulting to imply that people are "idiots" because they want to learn quickly about running, or Window 95, or Wine Tasting, or whatever. Somebody needs to come up with a Genius’ series to combat these Idiot Guides. For my money, Galloway’s book is a classic without insulting the reader with an annoying title. I read parts of it in the bookstore yesterday and it seems pretty good. It had a number of statistics I’ll quote from time to time when the appropiate issue comes up in this newsgroup.

– Joe Ranft

Response:

Question:

    My brother is visually impaired with some sight and motor difficulties and he loves to fish.  Is there any way for him to effectively fly fish or use a fly to fish lakes and streams using flys.  I am new to fly fishing and would like to introduce him to the sport.

Response:

   He could definitely fish from a float tube with a companion nearby.  All you have to do is put on a wooly bugger or nymph on a line of suitable sink rate, and kick around slowly.  Jonny even fished with someone who did it while sleeping. You’ll need to help him when he gets a fish in close, though he could learn to net them himself but in releasing them unharmed he could use your help. Have fun, Mark Vinsel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    My brother is visually impaired with some sight and motor difficulties and he loves to fish.  Is there any way for him to effectively fly fish or use a fly to fish lakes and streams using flys.  I am new to fly fishing and would like to introduce him to the sport.

Response:

I don’t care if I am crossing a stream or paddling across a lake, I have my line in the water.   I have caught respectable fish while "trolling" from behind my kayak, streamers and boogers and such….fish too! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   He could definitely fish from a float tube with a companion nearby.  All you have to do is put on a wooly bugger or nymph on a line of suitable sink rate, and kick around slowly.  Jonny even fished with someone who did it while sleeping. You’ll need to help him when he gets a fish in close, though he could learn to net them himself but in releasing them unharmed he could use your help. Have fun, Mark Vinsel    My brother is visually impaired with some sight and motor difficulties and he loves to fish.  Is there any way for him to effectively fly fish or use a fly to fish lakes and streams using flys.  I am new to fly fishing and would like to introduce him to the sport.

Response:

I don’t care if I am crossing a stream or paddling across a lake, I have my line in the water.   I have caught respectable fish while "trolling" from behind my kayak, streamers and boogers and such….fish too!

Kinda says something about all our careful casting techniques and presentations and such, doesn’t it?  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Question:

Yep. Steve

Response:

: I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you                        <clip<clip<clip : has since been taken over by animal "rights" types. : For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm : "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of : 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington : state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each : campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional : stewardship of state wildlife managers. : Americans for Medical Progress, the key national research advocacy group : that monitors the animal rights agenda, predicted the HSUS ballot          <clip<clip<clip : and laboratory animal issues and other issues that are appropriate" in the : future."… There was an initiative here in Michigan this last election dealing with the taking of bear over bait or with hounds.  The initiative would have banned both practices. When I found out what was  behind this initiative, it became clear to me it was nothing more than an anti-hunting measure.  The person behind getting it on the ballot claimed it would help bear hunting because it would license more hunters to get the same harvest.  Well, it would also have banned bear hunting during anytime in which baiting for any other specie was allowed. Since we have a deer season that runs from October first to the end of of December, there wouldn’t really be any time to have a bear season. There were a couple of other issues that indicated to me that this whole thing was vacant of anything substantive and was just an anti-hunting measure. Fortunately, it was defeated *SOUNDLY* and another measure passed that gives wildlife management to the professionals. PETA and apparently HSUS supported the initiative. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech University

Response:

This is an end result of a society that was tied to the land and understood that as a hunk of sentient protoplasm we ALWAYS have an impact on our environment in conflict with a new majority of voters that understand the interplay of man and nature due to their intimate knowlege born of countless Disney live action cartoons. Baiting bears is by no means a sure and easy enterprise as anyone who has tried it will tell you. Certainly not a ‘fish in a barrel’ sport as it has been represented. Cougars, as all animals, will populate until an external force checks the population growth. This force has been a limited amount of range and man. Now that man has been removed from the equation that will leave range as the controlling factor. Deer suffer from years of poor forage, ducks suffer from dry years that limit the breeding and rearing areas. It has been proven for many years that upland bird populations flucuate due to environmental factors and that sport hunting has little effect. All of these studies have been paid for with HUNTING dollars and the labor of untold hunters have improved more habitat than all the animal rights groups combined. Through our license fees, duck stamp funds and Pittman-Robertson monies we employ, and gladly, thousands of professional  game managers to help us improve the number,quality and health of the game that we pursue.   It is astonishing to me that I would have to conduct a wildlife biology 101 session to defend my right to pursue in a regulated fashion game animals and birds that owe their existence and health to a population of dedicated hunters like me.     This ‘rose colored’ view of nature that has been promoted by many animal groups is more than just irrational, it is incorrect! As with the old growth controversy DAMN THE FACTS, I WANT TO FEEL GOOD!! Leave game animal management to people who have at least some basis for their opinion other than what they are fed by Hollywood. A.J.Thramer

Response:

This is an end result of a society that was tied to the land and understood that as a hunk of sentient protoplasm we ALWAYS have an impact on our environment in conflict with a new majority of voters that understand the interplay of man and nature due to their intimate knowlege born of countless Disney live action cartoons. Baiting bears is by no means a sure and easy enterprise as anyone who has tried it will tell

you. Just go to a garbage dump and try to avoid tripping over them Certainly not a ‘fish in a barrel’ sport as it has been represented. Cougars, as all animals, will populate until an external force checks the population growth. This force has been a limited amount of range and man.

More and more and more and more and more limited range all the time. Now that man has been removed from the equation that will leave range as the controlling factor.

Too bad the wildlife managers don’t have a say about where the next subdivision is going to go up. Since the man made hunting pressure is off, you should by your argument have the best of both worlds.  Wildlife populations will go through the roof, so you will practicly trip over critters without the use of baits.  Why, you’ll probably be able to hunt them from your living room window in that new condo development that went up in what used to be a forest.  Deer suffer from years of poor forage, ducks suffer from dry years that limit the breeding and rearing areas. It has been proven for many years that upland bird populations flucuate due to environmental factors and that sport hunting has little effect. All of these studies have been paid for with HUNTING dollars

This is supposed to convince me that hunting has no affect on populations? I generally agree that hunters put far more into environment and habitat preservation than the public is aware of, but come on!  Get some more weight behind your citation of authorities.  Does the concept of scueing and bias mean anything to you?  and the labor of untold hunters have improved more habitat than all the animal rights groups combined.

Generalizations mean nothing and lead nowhere! Through our license fees, duck stamp funds and Pittman-Robertson monies we employ, and gladly, thousands of professional  game managers to help us improve the number,quality and health of the game that we pursue.   It is astonishing to me that I would have to conduct a wildlife biology 101 session to defend my right to pursue in a regulated fashion game animals and birds that owe their existence and health to a population of dedicated hunters like me.  

Its really nice that you are so broad minded(sarcasm dripping)  What do I have to teach you about biology to make YOU understand that having a lot of a selected species to shoot and kill is by no means an indicator of a healthy environment.  It just means you’ve done an excellent job of elliminating a lot of diversity to make room for your particular favorite species, based solely on what you like to shoot and NOT on what is good for the environment.  If this was not the case, we would not be loosing over 200 species per year to extinction.   This ‘rose colored’ view of nature that has been promoted by many animal groups is more than just irrational, it is incorrect! As with the old growth controversy DAMN THE FACTS, I WANT TO FEEL GOOD!! Leave game animal management to people who have at least some basis for their opinion other than what they are fed by Hollywood. A.J.Thramer

What rose coloured view are you talking about?  What is irrational?  Be specific man!  Its pretty hard to argue a point that has never been made. I really don’t know what your background is, but I find it really, really repugnant that you can talk about generalizations like hunters having some superior knowledge and understanding of the environment and talk about Old Growth Forest issues as being contraversial.  Its not a cotraversy, its a tragedy!   You want to let the last bits and remanents to be cut down and managed? What happened to all the other 95% that we cut down and managed?  Where were your experts then?  Probably looking over the blue prints for their new condo, that’s where! Its this kind of lame, unfocussed hogwash that creates the kind of polarity that keeps people from doing what’s right instead of doing whats best for themselves. Just MHO Mike

Response:

In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.   Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.   Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do it for sport, and it generates revenues. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers. For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: alt.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: AM Construction   In fact, the initiative did not outlaw baiting or hound hunting for   bear.  It just made it illegal for sport hunters to use these   techniques.  It’s perfectly OK for govt. employees and "researchers" and   presumably AR activists to use bait to attract bears.     Govt. agents are still allowed to use bait and hounds to kill bears.     Seems like it’s only cruel and barbaric to use hounds or bait if you do   it for sport, and it generates revenues.   Steve

OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds.   Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations. In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

And don’t get caught with a trap. I hear that the next election, they are going after using hooks on fish. Paul

Response:

First of all, I actually read the initiative.  Unfortunately I don’t have a copy here in front of me, so this is from memory.  One of the local papers had an editorial slamming the initiative because it didn’t "Outlaw" the practices, just made them illegal for common folk. The text of the initiative stated (not a quote, but the gist) that Wildlife agents or their assigns could use bait or hounds to hunt down and kill problem bears.  Read "bears that are annoying people".  Sort of gives the lie to the idea that the practices are just tooooo barbaric and unfair. It stated that bait could be used to attract bears for "research purposes," whatever that means.  (But I thought that we didn’t want the bears to get used to people feeding them…) Anyone who has ever hunted bear in Western Washington brush knows that the traditional method of controlling bear numbers (sport hunting) just went out the window.  Incidental kills simply will not keep pace with population growth.  Ain’t no way you’re going to be able to target an area and reduce the bear population without resorting to bait and/or hounds. Well, maybe poisoned poodles……no wait, that’s bait…… Of course we could mount a multimillion dollar campaign to supply the bruins with condoms. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK.  I’ve no clue why, but I’ll take the bait.  The initiative made it illegal to take bears using bait and/or hounds. Would you care to tell us where in the hell "Govt. agents", "researchers", and "AR Activists" are using bait and/or hounds to kill bears?  Further, if you can actually cite a real and documented example, then tell us when and why it happened. -tgades

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,       -tgades tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

The other method they use is to create paranoia through undercover fanatical defenders of the insane under the guise of "I’m just sticking up for the minorities no matter how ludicress it sounds". Scully and Mulder will expose your devious plot.  You don’t fool me! Mike

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  

In Colorado, we can no longer hunt spring bears, unless they’re gay. TimW (Stolen from a cartoon which lampooned the Amendment 2 passing the popular vote)

Response:

     < snip "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of 1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts.

Hi Jim, The Washington State initiative is the only one I know about.  It only prohibits bear baiting and hound hunting for cougars.  I don’t hunt but "some of my best friends . . .".  Many hunters supported the initiative but the anti crowd used wild and false statements (along the lines of "they wanna take away your right to hunt, they wanna take away your way of life") in their attempt to defeat the initiative.  Fortunately, the public saw through their BS and passed it. My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal. August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

Response:

 I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you  might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of  the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it  has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.  For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm  "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of  1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington  state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each  campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional  stewardship of state wildlife managers.

Unfortunately for our wallets, the initiative passed in Washington.  For those who don’t bother to look at the end result of their vote — the state of Washington, expecting the measure to pass, had already lined up professional hunters with dogs to handle the necessary extermination of these animals when they exceed practical levels of population. The state will now have to pay for the service. The state of Oregon failed to pass the needed repeal of a similar law. There the state found that the number of animals they had to _pay_ to have exterminated was equivalent to the number that sport hunters usually paid for the right to hunt them.  Definitely a lose-lose situation for the state.  I’ve heard the cost is a couple of million annually. Even California is now having a pretty significant problem with cougars moving into populated areas making it unsafe to let the toddler play in the backyard.

Response:

My decision not to hunt is based solely on the fact that it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I don’t view hunting as any worse or better than fishing which I love.  I voted in favor of this initiative just as I would vote to prohibit snagging of fish if it weren’t already illegal.

In my view of the universe, the achilles heel of this legislation is in the fact that it takes "wildlife management" out of the hands of the professionals (ie. Departments of Fish and Game/Wildlife [admittedly an arguable statement, but certainly not improved upon by asking Joe/ Jane-weaned-on-Disney-Classics to take up this responsibility]).  Why do we believe that Fish and Game managers allow detrimental (some would claim "cruel’) practices to continue despite convincing evidence "that even a layman can understand"?  Could it be that the issue is more complex than we appreciate?  Let the wildlife management community do their job.  We should be able to make input into the decision making process.  But, let’s not take the decision making out of the hands of the trained professionals until they give us cause. Clearly, with 27 ballot initiatives on the Oregon ballet this year, the initiative process is being abused.  I always ask myself– "Is this a matter that requires a change to the state constitution, with all the attendant costs, to address the issue?"   The answer is usually, "No". I guess it goes back to the thread about big government vs. individual responsibility.  But, in reverse!  Now were talking about big government (ie. the voting owners of the government) trying to dictate how the little wildlife management community (probably a government agency working with state schools) carries out its responsibilities. Life is weird when you’re left-handed! Charley

Response:

  I came across something at the Americas for Medical Progress web site you   might find interesting. BTW, HSUS is an acronym for the Humane Society of   the United States. It used to be an animal welfare organization but it   has since been taken over by animal "rights" types.   For more info, see http://www.ampef.org/hsus.htm   "The HSUS bankrolled ballot initiatives in six states in the fall of   1996, ostensibly aimed at hunters in Oregon, California, Washington   state, Michigan, Idaho and Massachusetts. The real goal behind each   campaign is to remove wildlife and habitat policies from the professional   stewardship of state wildlife managers.

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,         -tgades

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

You might want to re-read the the ballot question carefully. Question 1 in Massachusetts was advertised to outlaw the use of spring traps in the state. At the End of the lengthy ballot question it also read that the laws are to be changed to allow non sportsman(AKA ARA’s) to serve on the board that governs hunting and fishing in this state. Unfortunatly all the TV ads showed thirty year old footage of animals including household pets caught in the traps with no mention of the second part of the question and question 1 passed by a 3-2 margin. Hopefully this can be changed before the ARA’s take over the board and try to ban hunting and fishing in this state.(Don’t think it can’t happen!!)

Response:

For what it is worth.  THe initiative in WA (which passed handily) was primarily to outlaw the practice of bear baiting – a practice already illegal in all but a couple of the states with viable bear populations.  It was hardly a radical animal rights initiative as is implied above.  THe Oregon initiative was an attempt to reverse an earlier decision to outlaw the practice in that state.  It failed. cheers,    -tgades

tgades, Where have you been? Any animal rights initiative is RADICAL! It’s a well-known fact among sportsmen that the ARA’s modus operandi is "divide and conquer". They attack minorities (bear-baiters, Salmon snaggers) within the hunting and fishing sports, hoping that other hunters/fishers won’t care because it’s not "their" type of hunting/fishing. Attitudes like yours ensure that the ARA’s tactics work! Todd

Response:

Question:

Hi everybody Unfortunately I broke the tip of my (about 12 to 15 year old) Shakespeare fly fishing rod (a President carbon rod, 9 foot). Does anybody know the adress of Shakespeare so I can ask them for a replacement tip? Any hints are welcome!!! Chris

Response:

Hi everybody Unfortunately I broke the tip of my (about 12 to 15 year old) Shakespeare fly fishing rod (a President carbon rod, 9 foot). Does anybody know the adress of Shakespeare so I can ask them for a replacement tip? Any hints are welcome!!! Chris

Chris, Here is the u.k. address of Shakespeare Shakespeare Company Ltd P.O. Box 1 Broad Ground Road Lakeside Reddich Worcs  B98 8NQ England Hope this helps — john buchanan

Response:

Question:

I’m considering adding outriggers to my 22′ fishing boat.  Before I do, however, I thought I might try out planer boards which are set up to plane out to the side as the boat moves forward.  I would then attach a release clip to the planer board so that the line would free up from the board if a fish strikes.  It would seem to me that this type of system would be more practical on a small boat than outriggers.  Has anyone out there tried out this approach?  What have been your experiences? regards, gs Gary Segal, MD; Dept. of Medicine, UCI/VAMC, 5901 E. 7th Street, Long Beach,                         "AYMATAI"

Response:

Sideplaners are very popular in the Great Lakes and probably the best bet as you use them when you need them and leave them when you don’t. Another easy option is some long rods.  I troll with 12 foot fly rod blanks turned out as trolling rods to get the separation I like. Another trick little item is a Downjigger — we’ll have some add pages on that in my Fine Fishing magazine — finefishing.com — in the next few days.  This sppeds and slows trolled lures to improve results. Sort of like rowing without blisters. Oh Fine Fishing has 600,000 words, 200+ articles, a half dozen recent awards etc. and like the NAOG material on our site, covers a lot of trolling if that’s what you like.  I’ll have a new So Cal saltwater editor on in the next couple of weeks too.a

Response:

: I’m considering adding outriggers to my 22′ fishing boat.  Before I do, : however, I thought I might try out planer boards which are set up to plane : out to the side as the boat moves forward.  I would then attach a release : clip to the planer board so that the line would free up from the board if a : fish strikes.  It would seem to me that this type of system would be more : practical on a small boat than outriggers.  Has anyone out there tried out : this approach?  What have been your experiences? : I tried outriggers on my 20′ boat. I wasn’t very happy with the result. The smaller boat simply rolls too much, whipping the outriggers, putting a lot of strain on the gunwale mounts and jerking the baits. About the only thing that planer boards can’t do as well is to trail surface baits a long way behind the boat. They are also a little harder to work; you should have two people in the boat to manage them easily. — We sense that life is a dark comedy and maybe we can live with that. However, because the whole thing is written for the entertainment of the gods, too many of the jokes go right over our heads.     (D. R. Koontz)

Response:

Question:

Best thing I ever found for high mountain lakes is a black ant.  You can fish it with spinning gear or fly gear just a few feet from shore. Simply tie the ant on – it is heavy enough to cast 10-12 feet which is enough. Of course, it is a sinking fly.  Just let it sink as an insect which has fallen into the water would do… You can even make it from horsehair (as I once did) and it works just fine.  Works best when wind riffles the water (which, of course makes it hard to detect bites!) so that fish cannot see you.  They often cruise around the edges of the lake waiting for something to drop in, but with the clear water, the big problem is preventing them from seeing you. For spinners – use small spinners, all black or dull brass during the day and small silver spinners very early or late. Good fishing! Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have some questions about how folk fish mountain lakes.  I spin and I do a little flyfishing.  I have used fly bobbers with a little success.   I have used spinners with a little success too.  I have thot of packing in a float tube but it’s a bit much for *me* to try to pack that awkward mess in an hour and a half. So these are my questions: 1.      How do you fish a fly and fly bobber?  wet, dry, drowned (I got a 7

Question:

From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??   Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Yo Bobby,         You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.         It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,         but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??

*  Kieth:  If you are so damned hot with a Webster’s, learn how to spell.                      It’s "dictionaries" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965 Yo Bobby,    You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.    It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,    but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Response: