Question:

I managed a nasty face plant on that trip because I stood up, took a step and snagged my fin on the oar. Don’t forget to get those fins off before you stand up. They call me grace. snip- BTW I lost a fin (also borrowed) when the bottom muck pulled – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it off while I was trying to stand. Use straps.

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Thanks for the input, chaps, much appreciated.  Confirmed much of what I thought. Another Question … Do you drift rivers in pairs? For safety as well as convenience. I’m thinking about car relays, like we do for the raft, i.e drop a vehicle (usually after depositing the raft at put in) at a takeout. I suppose its possible some pontoons would be light enough to carry some way (not that I’ve seen any here yet).   Steve BTW: Ryan, I don’t need no flippers, oars or other props to do a face plant.

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I rented a pontoon boat this summer and floated my favorite river. The Yakima river in central Washington is a "large river" to me (in most places I cannot stand on one bank and cast across to the other…). The water for the most part, and depending on the time of year, is calm. There are a few stretches of heavy ripples, but they only stretch for approximately 50 yards or so. It’s easy enough to bear down and get past them. Prior to floating the river on the pontoon boat, I was always dependant upon a guide, and their boat, to fish this river effectively. Wading access is limited by steep and rocky banks in most areas. Since I’ve floated the river several times with a guide, I’m comfortable enough to know where the good spots are and I’m efficient enough to get to them on a pontoon boat. When I pontoon drifted the river, I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to fish as I drifted as opposed to drifting from location to location. It’s difficult to successfully consider your position on the river, hold a rod, worry about fly lines and keep the oars pointed in the right direction all at once. Not a pretty site and not a stress free afternoon. My recommendation would be: 1) absolutely try it. 2) don’t wear flippers on the river (too hard to control and definately hard to get out of the boat when you get anchored at a good spot). 3) mainly fish once you get to the proper location on the river. 4) don’t worry about fishing while you’re on the move on the boat. I must say that as I reflect on the times that I’ve caught fish on the river, either with a guide or on the pontoon boat, it’s always been a situation where I could have been standing in a foot or two of water. Now I have to go weigh my options: to buy a new 3wt fly rod and reel this winter, or get a new pontoon boat instead… Ryan

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I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner?

I know its possible, because I’ve seen people doing it.  When I tried it myself, though, I quickly realized that I wasn’t coordinated enough to control the boat and fish at the same time.  Of course, I’ve never been the most graceful person in the world. Kevin

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I have a pontoon boat, and fish rivers and lakes using it. For lake fishing, it is very comfortable to wear flippers to move to boat slowly, hold position, or work slowly over an area. You can move quite quickly over longre distances by using the oars. The boats sit high in the water, and move quite easily. They are responsive and you can fish while using flippers to control the boat. The only down side to the pontoon boats on lakes is that in windy areas like where I live, it sometimes gets too hard to control the boats with flippers. I have used pontoon boats on reasonably fast, waters in the Canadian Rockies. I wear wading boots, and use the oars for controlling direction. I would never wear flippers on a river. Just too dangerous. I do not fish while travelling, but use the boat for access. You drift downstream for a while, stop when you reach good water, and fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift".   Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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Question:

I fished Hood Canal yesterday with my fatherinlaw. We arrived at the beach at about 10:00 and just after getting our rods set up, my fatherinlaw was trying to set up our drift with the tide when I noticed a couple of coho rolling on the surface. I immediately started casting an ‘experimental’ floating candle fish pattern and they were all over it, unfortunately the line fouled around the hook. I switched to a dry fly and again they were all over it. I caught about 10-12 coho and 6-7 sea-run cutthroat in about 4 hours of fishing. The best fish of the day was about a 3-4 lb coho that launched itself about 4-5 times, and the best cutthroat was a feisty one about 16". Most of the fish were caught of a dry fly, which is just an absolute rush when they take it. This was my fatherinlaw first time flyfishing in 21 years, he caught one 14" cutt and had several other strikes. He said he had a great time and he will do more flyfishing. Boy it feels good to get somebody interested in the sport. Darin

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Nice TR Darin.  Glad to hear you got some fishing time in.  Missed having you around for the clave this year. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fished Hood Canal yesterday with my fatherinlaw. We arrived at the beach at about 10:00 and just after getting our rods set up, my fatherinlaw was trying to set up our drift with the tide when I noticed a couple of coho rolling on the surface. I immediately started casting an ‘experimental’ floating candle fish pattern and they were all over it, unfortunately the line fouled around the hook. I switched to a dry fly and again they were all over it. I caught about 10-12 coho and 6-7 sea-run cutthroat in about 4 hours of fishing. The best fish of the day was about a 3-4 lb coho that launched itself about 4-5 times, and the best cutthroat was a feisty one about 16". Most of the fish were caught of a dry fly, which is just an absolute rush when they take it. This was my fatherinlaw first time flyfishing in 21 years, he caught one 14" cutt and had several other strikes. He said he had a great time and he will do more flyfishing. Boy it feels good to get somebody interested in the sport. Darin

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Darin: I lived in Lilliwaup for a few years, and fished the Hama Hama almost daily for sea run cutts and steelhead (fall and winter runs). Occasionally we’d putt out into the Canal proper when the salmon were running (well, ‘cept for the doggies – they came up river to us Where on the Canal did you put in? /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fished Hood Canal yesterday with my fatherinlaw. We arrived at the beach at about 10:00 and just after getting our rods set up, my fatherinlaw was trying to set up our drift with the tide when I noticed a couple of coho rolling on the surface. I immediately started casting an ‘experimental’ floating candle fish pattern and they were all over it, unfortunately the line fouled around the hook. I switched to a dry fly and again they were all over it. I caught about 10-12 coho and 6-7 sea-run cutthroat in about 4 hours of fishing. The best fish of the day was about a 3-4 lb coho that launched itself about 4-5 times, and the best cutthroat was a feisty one about 16". Most of the fish were caught of a dry fly, which is just an absolute rush when they take it. This was my fatherinlaw first time flyfishing in 21 years, he caught one 14" cutt and had several other strikes. He said he had a great time and he will do more flyfishing. Boy it feels good to get somebody interested in the sport. Darin

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When we went passed Point No Point there were boats everywhere. There were also about 3-4 off of Point Hannon (Hoods Head). Where we fished there were none. We had all the water and all the fish to ourselves.

How does Point No Point come by its name? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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When we went passed Point No Point there were boats everywhere. There were also about 3-4 off of Point Hannon (Hoods Head). Where we fished there were none. We had all the water and all the fish to ourselves. How does Point No Point come by its name?

LOL!…. it is one of the dumbest names for a point of land, aint it?  it’s a point, no wait, it’s not, i swear it’s a point, no wait, it’s not <G chris…. who just loves unimaginative names for places

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Darin: I lived in Lilliwaup for a few years, and fished the Hama Hama almost daily for sea run cutts and steelhead (fall and winter runs). Occasionally we’d putt out into the Canal proper when the salmon were running (well, ‘cept for the doggies – they came up river to us Where on the Canal did you put in? /daytripper

We actually put in in Port Townsend, some bright idea my fatherinlaw had <g, and motored down from there. We fished just a little south of the H.C. bridge. Darin

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Darin: I lived in Lilliwaup for a few years, and fished the Hama Hama almost daily for sea run cutts and steelhead (fall and winter runs). Occasionally we’d putt out into the Canal proper when the salmon were running (well, ‘cept for the doggies – they came up river to us Where on the Canal did you put in? /daytripper We actually put in in Port Townsend, some bright idea my fatherinlaw had <g, and motored down from there. We fished just a little south of the H.C. bridge.

Whoops! PT to the bridge and back is a bit of a haul for a one day outing You ever fish further south in the Canal? /daytripper

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Whoops! PT to the bridge and back is a bit of a haul for a one day outing

You’re not kidding! It was 1 1/2 hours each way. We could’ve had another 2 hours fishing if we’d gone to a closer ramp. You ever fish further south in the Canal?

I tried the zoo humpie fishery at Hoodsport one evening after work a couple of years ago. Lining up with 20-30 other guys looking for that 1 fish is not my idea of fun. I lasted about a 1/2 hour before I called it quits. Long drive from PT for a 1/2 hr fishing. Other than that, no, I haven’t fished further south, except for the Dose, Duck, and the Hamma rivers. Darin

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Hey Darin,   On the Kitsap County side of the bridge turn left and go north about 1 mile and there is Salisbury (sp) Point. I do believe it is a park but they have an excellent boat ramp.  In addition you may want to look at the Point no Point area to fish.  Lots of fish being caught from the beach and boats. I couldn’t entice any to my fly rod but I saw a few other flyfishers catch em.  Primarily humpies ( in the ocean phase no hump) and silvers. Dave —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoops! PT to the bridge and back is a bit of a haul for a one day outing You’re not kidding! It was 1 1/2 hours each way. We could’ve had another 2 hours fishing if we’d gone to a closer ramp. You ever fish further south in the Canal? I tried the zoo humpie fishery at Hoodsport one evening after work a couple of years ago. Lining up with 20-30 other guys looking for that 1 fish is not my idea of fun. I lasted about a 1/2 hour before I called it quits. Long drive from PT for a 1/2 hr fishing. Other than that, no, I haven’t fished further south, except for the Dose, Duck, and the Hamma rivers. Darin

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Good to hear you’re out fishing. Missed your enthusiasm at the Clave. Willi

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Good to hear you’re out fishing. Missed your enthusiasm at the Clave. Willi

I missed being at the clave, especially after seeing that pig that RW caught. Must have been great to have seen it in person. Dairn

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Hey Darin,   On the Kitsap County side of the bridge turn left and go north about 1 mile and there is Salisbury (sp) Point. I do believe it is a park but they have an excellent boat ramp.  In addition you may want to look at the Point no Point area to fish.  Lots of fish being caught from the beach and boats. I couldn’t entice any to my fly rod but I saw a few other flyfishers catch em.  Primarily humpies ( in the ocean phase no hump) and silvers. Dave

Theres one on the Jeff. Co. side too. My fatherinlaw just wanted to be near a dock. Old timers….. what can I say? <G. When we went passed Point No Point there were boats everywhere. There were also about 3-4 off of Point Hannon (Hoods Head). Where we fished there were none. We had all the water and all the fish to ourselves. Darin

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Question:

My uncle found a STEEL fly rod in his basement over the past weekend. He doesn’t fish, so he said that I could have it.  I haven’t seen it yet, but he says that it’s 7′6" or maybe even 8′ in length and is definitely a fly rod.  I’m hoping to pick it up tonight and check it out. Any ROFFians ever fished with a steel fly rod–and would they do it again? Is this a rare item?  Is it valuable or is it garbage? Tom Before you buy.

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A guide buddy of mine has an old steel telescoping fly rod (w/ reel). He says it is worth some $$. Don’t know how much though. Maybe take it to someone who deals in old rods for some idea of its worth. Never has fished with it I don’t think. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My uncle found a STEEL fly rod in his basement over the past weekend. He doesn’t fish, so he said that I could have it.  I haven’t seen it yet, but he says that it’s 7′6" or maybe even 8′ in length and is definitely a fly rod.  I’m hoping to pick it up tonight and check it out. Any ROFFians ever fished with a steel fly rod–and would they do it again? Is this a rare item?  Is it valuable or is it garbage? Tom Before you buy.

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Tom,    The first outfit I ever fished with was a rusty telescoping steel rod and a worn out level wind reel which caused more line tangles than I care to remember.  I hope I never have to do it again.  As to value, have you have seen the sign "We buy junk and sell antiques"? Ernie Tom wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any ROFFians ever fished with a steel fly rod–and would they do it again? Is this a rare item?  Is it valuable or is it garbage? Tom

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Tom, My first ‘fly rod’ was a telescoping steel model bought at Western Auto. It was a total abomination to cast, but the fact that it telescoped made it handy for fishing the small brooks I frequented at the time. I have no idea what it is worth……I suspect it will have some value as a curiosity. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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My uncle found a STEEL fly rod in his basement over the past weekend. He doesn’t fish, so he said that I could have it.  I haven’t seen it yet, but he says that it’s 7′6" or maybe even 8′ in length and is definitely a fly rod.  I’m hoping to pick it up tonight and check it out. Any ROFFians ever fished with a steel fly rod–and would they do it again? Is this a rare item?  Is it valuable or is it garbage? Tom

Well, it wasn’t a steel rod after all.  It was an old fiberglass rod painted silver.  The paint was worn off in places and the glass was a rust color so it kind of looked like a rusty metal rod. Another uncle does have a steel rod that looks like a fly rod with the handle and reel seat on backwards–fly rod-style guides/eyes and a cork handle but the reel seat is in the front…  an odd piece, I’d say. Tom Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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Question:

See "Presentation" by Borger, or LaFontaine’s "Caddis" book.  Overpower a sidearm cast, just like skipping a stone on the water. It might work, but when I try it I always feel like a pompous ass. Oh-oh.  POLITICAL CORRECTION: for the illiterate out there, I mean that to be a four-legged animal, not somebody’s butt. BB

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Thanks everyone for oyur help! I will let you know how I go… PS Got my second trout on fly yesterday…. Put up a terrific fight for the size.  I got three big runs from this fish with line stipping of at a rate of knots… I thought it was a monster but it turned out to be about 1.5 lb. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

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(and so did charlie choc) The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972.

If, as charlie suggests, it is out of print, try the public libraries. Its a neat old book with some unorthodox solutions to some still relevant problems. The patterns he suggests and the materials he uses are not as water repellant nor as buoyant as the elk hair caddis, however, so you might want to use Wright’s technique, but stick with the EHC. brent

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Mike Here’s another method that’s worked for me.  Use a long rod, very long leader 12′ with a very light tippet and stand almost directly upstream of the fish.   As the fly approaches the end of the drag free drift, lift the rod tip up and get all of the line and leader out of the water.  The fly just lightly dances on top of the water.  I’ve had a ‘bow jump 6" out of the water to take a fly danced this way. It works best if the wind and stream currents are going the same way, but it is difficult to get right if they are in opposite directions. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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Brent The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972. Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

maybe try looking at some of Lefty’s writings – also try FFM website, www.flyshop.com.  http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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(some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

I skip a caddis after the initial drift is completed.  Landlocked salmon love it when the fly reaches the end of the drift and swings around to be straight down stream.  A retrieve back with sudden jerks of the rod will also encourage hits. However, this only works for a certain kind of caddis, usually in June in Maine.  The same trick applied in September does not produce the same results. Dave LaCourse

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

There is no "right" way to do this. Experimentation is always worthwhile. I get 80%+ of my fish on a drag free drift, even on caddis. Fish feeding on Duns or emergers can be put down if there is any drag or motion to your fly, especially on heavily fished areas. I generally fish an area first using a drag free approach and then try some twitching or induced drag. Generally, just a twitch which moves the fly ever so slightly is what’s needed. However, in riffles and runs, more pronounced skips and hops followed by drag free drifts can be productive. A technique that sometimes brings up reluctant surface feeders in pocket water is a down stream technique. Wade upstream and to the side of one of the mini pools in a pocket stretch, until you are ten to fifteen feet away. In pocket water, fish are not easily spooked and a close approach is generally possible. Make a short cast to the side of the pocket you’re going to fish, raise your rod tip so that all the line and leader is off the water and hop a heavily dressed dry in and around the mini pool. With this technique, you can generally use a fly one or two sizes larger than what you would use on flatter water and a heavier tippets is also helpful. Strikes are violent. Fish will often will swipe at the fly but will hit it if your next cast is a drag free one. This is a good midsummer technique.  Especially in midsummer, these stretches of pocket water hold lots of fish including some good ones. Willi

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

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How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

 Mike, By twitching your rod real fast you send vibrations out your flyline/leader/tippet to the caddis. This causes the fly to "dance" on the water and it is a rare trout that can resist this flamenco. Here in the mountains of NC, there is a deceased flyfishing legend by the name of Mark Cathey. He "developed" this style back in the 20’s & 30’s on Hazel Creek and he always managed to fill his creel with the limit. Good luck with your dancing lessons, Walt —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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Question:

Thinking about camping in vermont and want input on good campgrounds with large private sites and activities for children. I was looking at Lake Dunmore Kampersville. Has anyone ever been there and what is it like. Thanks Pat

Pat, Lake Dunmore is very nice.  You may also want to look at the Vermont State Parks Website.  I have included my standard message below for your ease of access.  Good luck. You can visit the Vermont State Parks website at http://www.state.vt.us/anr/fpr/parks/. The site details all of Vermont’s state parks and camping opportunities. James Ehlers Underhill, Vemont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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The 1998 Vermont Campground Guide is now in print. Call VT Forests and Parks at 802-241-3655 to have a copy mailed to you. The guide lists all state parks as well as private. Good descriptions for both. VT Campground Association:  http://www.campvermont.com VT Forests & Parks:   http://www.state.vt.us/anr/fpr/parks Dev Vallencourt                      "Simplicity is the essence Center Designs                                 of good design." Waterbury Center, VT         -Mr. Brossier, 7th gr. art teacher http://www.sover.net/~laserldy

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Thinking about camping in vermont and want input on good campgrounds with large private sites and activities for children. I was looking at Lake Dunmore Kampersville. Has anyone ever been there and what is it like. Thanks Pat

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Question:

     Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

and what would that "something" be?         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

At the age of 46, I’d be inclined to agree.  But here’s a story from my youth you may find amusing.  Back in ‘63, I was in Sequoia camping with a ‘Y’ group of youths my age.  We were there for fishing and hiking. ‘Fishing’ was the operative word, since no one had ‘caught’ anything.  At that time, FF wasn’t nearly the designer sport it is today.  I had only seen a couple people doing it and I was a fair distance away:  totally naive to the special gear required for the graceful casts. Taking my self quite seriously, I started whipping a spoon around using my 6′ ft, fiberglass, $12 Thrifty spinning rod and reel.  There I was, whippin that thing back and forth and every once in a while lettin the spoon drag through the pool.  On one of my "backcasts" I literally yanked a little 8 incher right out of the water, totally surprising both of us.  (This was the only trout caught by anyone on the trip!).  Subsequent flailing, for an hour or so produced no more fish.  Go figure.  I guess I put ‘em all down. (The most amazing part of this story is that I still have both of my eyes).  Now you can easily convince this 46 year old that aint flyfishin, but don’t try to convince that 12 year old kid.   Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing".

I guess this pretty well rules out spin casting a clear bubble attached above a 6′ leader having a dry fly attached.  Personally, this works for me because the result is to drift flies with a presentation that fools the fish in the same way your defined technique does.  (I don’t do this anymore, but it certainly wouldn’t chap my hide if I say someone plying ff only waters in this fashion, especially if it was a young’un)

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   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

(hee hee) What is flyfishing ? If you have to ask or try and define it, you’ll never understand it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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        Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-) and what would that "something" be?

the first internet gigabyte waste of bandwith for "1997 Useless Threads" category…… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Maybe it could be simpler, fly fishing is fishing with a fly line. — Charlie…

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.    Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

I’m attracted to this definition having posted something similar some time back. It concentrates on one major factor that makes flyfishing different; the cast. It also seems more consistent with the more ‘catholic’ outlook most flyfishers have these days (includes me) – adopt what works within rather broad confines. I do think though we have to exclude obvious ‘lures’ (spoons spinners etc) but don’t know what to do about "flys" that act like lures –  spoons flies tullis wigglers, plastic bills on bass poppers etc. So many of these things are constructed the same way we tie flies so though I’m tend to be not convinced they are flies I use them rather than condemn them. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Hi Jim Good point. I agree it’s a lot more important to help a kid get started than to argue about what fly fishing is. You also have a good summer. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

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Question:

Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

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Love Dogfishin’.  We catch 5 or 6 small bluegill and carefully chop off heads so that the guts are trailing.  Up here in Michigan, they don’t get 10 lbs. but a five or six pounder is a beauty.  Never eat them, but they make a great compost. Ed

A true conservationist. No wonder we get stupid postings from animal rights types if prople are going to post rubbish like this. Cheers Tight Lines Rod

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I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste muddy. BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 lbs.  

I saw one caught off the shore on Lake Erie last year.  I had no clue what it was.  Posted a question on here and got many replies.  It just amazed me that there was a fresh water fish that I didn’t recognize. It did put up a strong fight, and was about 24 inches long.  Looked like a blast from our prehistoric past to me. BJA Still looking for a 23′ Bayliner Trophy (or anything else in my price range), soon going to give up and buy a new one.

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| I have caught bowfins (aka grinnel) many times.  I love to catch them, | and I agree that they fight like demons.  I may be able to shed some | light on the "trash fish" reputation, however.  Grinnel are just no good | to eat.  First, you will have trouble cleaning one.  If you rinse the | fillets under running water, or soak them for verylong, they simply | dissolve.  If you decide to cook them without rinsing, the cooked meat | has the consistency of cream of wheat.  On top of that, they often taste | muddy. | BUT, I can catch another fish to eat.  NOTHING fights like a bowfin.   | Release them and they will grow BIG.  my largest to date was just over 12 | lbs.   Is this the same as the shovelbill catfish? Seems to me that redfish used to be considered a trashfish that was fun to catch, but lousy on the table. At least until Chef Paul began blackening them and then it became an industry. Heat up your skillet! Before I knew what they were, I caught and fried up a small freshwater drum. Yeeeeuuuucccchhhhh!

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation?

I’m the same way about Chain Pickerel.  I frequent Caddo in East Texas, and they have bowfin (never caught one of those before, though) and chain pickerel (a kin to the pike).  I go to Caddo specifically to catch (and release) Pickerel, and even hired a guide to help me find it when I got my first shut-out ever.  The guide?  He was more like, "uh, yeah, yeah I can help you find those (spit, spit)".  They’re wild fighters and with their long thin bodies (leverage), a 2-pounder feels like a 6-pound largemouth. I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely

I’ll fish for anything too.  There have been days when I’d be happy to catch a tiny GAR, just to make sure I really did have a hook on the end of the line!  People argue about fishing methods, lure types, brands, colors, and species.  Then you have the bass folks that hate catching anything under 5 pounds.  When the going gets tough for me, I break out the ultralight tackle and fish for bream!   Of course, I say all of this and I have my biases too.  Some people love fishing for carp, but I can’t stand them.  I’m also not really crazy about gar.  Maybe I have an adversion to anything with armidillo type skin.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton

How did u prep those bowfin to get them ready for the oven ???? I was in Northern Louisiana (Air Force assignment) a few years ago and caught these fish in the bayus of Barksdale AFB … They did wonders for a good frisky catch / better fight than any bass I’ve ever caught /  but they "melted" when I tried to fry them …. I used them in the tomatoe garden … planted along side the plants … What GREAT plant food !!!!!! BoneyFingers / in Georgia (now) ..

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I live in South Florida and I want to know if there are more people out there who enjoy catching Bowfins? They are called Mudfish down here, and everyone seems to consider them a "trash" fish, except of course me. My first Mudfish was about 5 pounds, and fought like a cross between a catfish and a bass, diving, leaping, twisting, over and over. When I finally got it next to the boat, my fishing partner went, ugh! Mudfish…. I had caught a few bass earlier but none of them were as big or fought as hard as this gladiator from the stone age. I was hooked. I promptly changed my fishing tactics and targeted the Mudfish as my quarry for the rest of the day. Since them I have sponsored 5 Mudfish tournaments. All my friends are now hooked on the sport, and we even had a reporter come out to one of the tournaments and they printed a big article on us in the local newspaper. Once I found out that they were not only edible, but when baked they taste exactly like turkey breast, all white meat and juicy. Not one bit fishy. We now hold a big barbecue after the tournament, and enjoy Bowfin and beer till it gets dark. I have served baked fillet of Bowfin covered with Turkey gravy at Thanksgiving to my unsuspecting guests as an experiment to see if it was just me, or did this really taste like Turkey. Surprise. Everyone commented how tasty the White Turkey Meat was. I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

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I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten

I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun.  I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs  put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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: I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever : you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their : fighting capabilities. : I find it hard to believe that this fantastic : fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good : trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can : anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is : the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps : twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten To me, catching the nasty bow-fin is like that awful story where a man’s wife gets raped; certainly she fights as hard as she can, and the attackers are later captured, but sex never is the same again. Well, perhaps not *that* extreme. The thing is, they’ll go after most anything, and it will always be an unpleasant surprise. Top-water plugs? Nasty, stink-bait? Soft-plastics? Whatever you’re fishing for, or with, sooner or later, you’re going to be convinced you’ve caught the biggest *ever* of that species, only to see the horrible grinnel surface. <sigh Yes, the fighting properties of the fish are all that, and then some. But if you think you’ve got a wall-hanger largemouth….<sigh And as for "tasting like turkey…."   The meat’s got a soft, gelatinous texture. It doesn’t smell good, and is yellowish, with holes like a sponge. Turkey breast, my foot. I thnk I’ll have a drum-stick.

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I never tried eating a bowfin, dogfish, mudfish, grinnell, or whatever you want to call these voracious predators, but I will affirm their fighting capabilities.  Beaver Dam Lake was stocked with them in an effort to reduce the carp population.  It was assumed that they would eat the carp fry.  Ignorant fisherman killed them as fast as they caught them.  They assumed the bowfins were eating all the walleye!  Now, if I were a predatory fish, forced to live in a cesspool like Beaver Dam Lake, would I be eating a rare, spiny walleye, or leisurely gulping down soft rayed carp fry, which are present in vast shoals? — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it hard to believe that this fantastic fighting fish is shunned by bass fisherman everywhere I go as a no good trash fish. Does anyone know how this fish got such a bad reputation? Can anyone out there attest to the culinary delights of the Bowfin? What is the problem with catching a 5 to 10 pound fish that fights and jumps twice as hard as any bass I ever caught? Someone, Please, enlighten I am continually amazed that people can be fanatical about one kind of fishing yet scorn others.This kind of thing is very widepsreadd, with people having bias against fish species or techniques (bait vs artificial vs fly). I believe that I am extremely fortunate in that I will fish for just about anything, and I will use just about any technique which will catch a fish. I believe that this opens up so much more scope for fishing fun. I have friends who are dedicated sea fisherman, but who would scorn throwing lures for bass. T hier loss, cause when they are sulking because of a blowwout I am happily hooking bass. Other guys fish bass but belittle catfish, and then sit and complain about the muddy water which havs put the bass off the bite while I am happily hooking catfish. If I can give a fisherman one bit of advice it would be, Broaden Your Horizons. If nothing else, it means there is so much more tackle that you can buy, gfiddle with and read about. Tight Lines Rod

Excuse me for butting in, but what has this got to do with UK. rec.fishing.sea ?????? — Davy Holt Surfing from Clydebank Scotland*"O Sir, doubht not that angling is                                * an art… The question is rather The Scottish Angling Homepage  * whether you are capable of learning http://www.dholt.demon.co.uk/  * it?"     Izaack Walton                                                

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Question:

What’s wrong with polar bear hackle? I use grizzly hackle myself – floats well too, once you remove the claws.

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mr. bulldog- badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and i believe something called "furnace" hackle which definitely did not come from a furnace…

: Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but : I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they : sell badger hackle! : Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   : Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? : Bulldog : #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # : # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # : #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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Whatever turns you on !

Seems every year they pull someone out of the polar bear compound who apparently tried that. Seems it’s not too healthy. multitudes of synthetic "furs" available out there? I’ve been tying pike streamers with Super Hair lately. Ties nice if all you want is a straight streamer, but I’d like something with some flare (as in flares like deer hair). Any suggestions? JL 8-Wt Editor

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Hmmm . . . Must be one of them flying polar bears I’ve heared tell about. Could be dangerous if one o’ them critters gets confused an’ lands on some statue down in Nu Yawk City! But, I guess you could get some mighty big necks off one of ‘em! JL 8-Wt Editor

Whatever turns you on ! Pete Marrow, Global Seismology Research Group, British Geological Survey, Murchison House, West Mains Road, Edinburgh, EH9 3LA. UK. tel: 031-667-1000          Fax: 031-667-1877  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – mr. bulldog- badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and i believe something called "furnace" hackle which definitely did not come from a furnace… : Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but : I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they : sell badger hackle! : Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   : Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? : Bulldog

Mr. Santos, I KNOW why badger and grizzly hackle are so named, but I decided to make a joke.  Whew, I guess you didn’t get the hint from my last question/sentence.  Anyway, I hope that one day, everyone will spend as much on their sense of humor as they do their fly fishing equipment (and some should fork out a little more)! Ruf, Bulldog #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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: mr. bulldog- : : badger refers to the patterning of the feathers, not the type of animal the fur/ : feather came from-if you think about this, there is also grizzly hackle, and And I thought "grizzly hackle" referred to some of those road-kill birds I’ve been known to drag home! Charley

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I recently saw and ad in Flyfishermens Mag. about some guys who sells polar bear hackle.  I was curious to see if anyone has ever used or knows much about it.  

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I recently saw and ad in Flyfishermens Mag. about some guys who sells polar bear hackle.

Hmmm . . . Must be one of them flying polar bears I’ve heared tell about. Could be dangerous if one o’ them critters gets confused an’ lands on some statue down in Nu Yawk City! But, I guess you could get some mighty big necks off one of ‘em! JL 8-Wt Editor

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Could this be related to Badger hackle?  You guys have been ragging, but I haven’t seen hackle on a badger, but every fly tier knows, that they sell badger hackle! Give the dude a break…hey, I should talk, but I DO have a question?   Does anyone know where I can get Kodiak hackle? Bulldog #                         |  "I am neither loitering nor trespassing.     # # Paul "Cousin" Graham    |   I have simply chosen an advisable location  # #                         |     – from the movie, ‘Fletch’                #

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Question:

Anyone use a FF comp. game/simulator that goes by the name of Fly Fishing The McCloud River? Yeah? Well, don’t leave us in suspense…

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The McCloud River Game is available from Orvis San Francisco 3 animated screens ..run..riffle..pool.  Nice casting loops..success based on selecting fly best for season/time of day..casting to holding water for large trout..reel zzzz fish break off.. not designed for hard core game manics..fly fisherman new to computer games love it for the feel of fly fishing for big rainbows and browns on the best freestone river anywhere. dh

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Question:

Does anyone out there have any experience with fly-spinning.  Such as, how do you rig, which flies for what, etc.  I’m an upstate New Yorker and would like to try it out in our beautiful rivers and streams. — Jeffrey D. Morris Eastman Kodak Co.

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Does anyone out there have any experience with fly-spinning.  Such as, how do you rig, which flies for what, etc.  

I sometimes cast lightly weighted flies using a baitcaster.  Best are fairly large wet flies. If conditions are still or you have a tailwind sometimes it’s enough just to wet the fly before casting to give it a bit of extra weight.  I usually just attach the fly to a snap swivel.   In good conditions this usually gives enough casting weight.  An alternative is to tie the fly to your leader by feeding the leader through the fly and tying it in a small loop.  You can add a light weight to the loop just above the fly.  I don’t know what type of fish you catch but I have caught some good fish this way especially fishing in the runoff over a rock bar or a weir. peter w

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