Question:

I recently purchased a Mini Bass boat and a minn kota trolling motor with it, 35lbs of thrust, I boutght a 12v deep cycle battery as well. My question is, how much "life" can I expect out of the battery? if used sparingly during the day, 3 hours? 6 hours? 8 hours? I know it depends on a lot of things, but I’m looking for a ball park figure. Wondering if I should get  second as backup to take along. Other then that, fishing in Weymouth Mass was great this weekend lots of perch, but some pretty healthy largemouth. thanks in advance.

Response:

If the minkota has the maximizer feature and it’s a group 27 or larger battery, expect to fish two days on it, anyway. I can do that no problem with my 50 thrust minkota on a 14-1/2 footer. RichZ

Question:

….Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension.

Phhht!  Too easy.  Get a bigger hammer.      :) Wolfgang no charge for this one

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Response:

*snip patent info*    Is the toxicity something we should be concerned with?

Anything with mineral oil in it is toxic.  If you drink mineral oil for instance, you will die, probably quite horribly.  Chucking even small amounts of mineral oil into the environment is a very bad thing to do. You may remember fairly recent scandals, especially in Italy, where Olive oil was "stretched" with mineral oil. Many people died horribly, others lost their sight, and had various other nasty things happen to them. Mineral oil is also a contact poison, and may cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions. Some products produced by the ethoxylation of Nonyl Phenol, Glycerine, and various other substances are used among other things as very high grade surgical soap. Eating this will cause severe and uncontrollable vomiting, will damage the stomach, throat, etc, and depending on the other ingredients may also be toxic. Chemical analyses are available for all the substances listed in the patent. Some are toxic, some are not. Quite a few are environmental pollutants ( Long chain, non bio-degradable molecules). Ethoxylated substances change their characteristics and properties quite radically as a result of polymerisation.  Phenol for instance is an extremely dangerous and potent poison in its raw state.  It would be necessary to read all the chemical  and property analyses of the substances concerned in order to determine the toxicity of any mixture based on them. If silica is added to the stuff, this implies that it is finely ground. When dry, ground silica dust is extremely dangerous, and is number one on the list of carcinogens.  In a wet mixture it is probably relatively harmless. Not to put to fine a point on it, I would not use the stuff. TL MC

Response:

This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink.

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel. Joe F.

Response:

On a lighter note, one of my favorite "vanity plates" to date was a simple sedan with the license plate C2H5OH (or something close to that, I can’t remember now).   It took me a while, but I eventually surmised the owner’s name was Ethel.

That would be just C2H5. — Charlie…

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons.

Might be too late now though.

Response:

—- It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory

towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case". —- our envy of Mike Connor’s reputation and his considerable contribution to the world of flyfishing is obvious. —- Padishar Creel — George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Response:

 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later.

Diagnosis, Doctor?

Response:

 George, do some actual research before you post so-called facts…it will save you some embarrassment later. Diagnosis, Doctor?

—– Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G. Padishar Creel — Mental health Expert of the Major Roffian Character Disorders

Response:

Hmmm, as I stroke my Jungian beard, I would say the diagnosis would include a complex combination of personality and co-morbid Axis I disorders and for you laymen, please forgive the highly technical jargon, but the correct taxonomical nomenclature would be "Shit For Brains" <G.

—— As to an interesting link that may be of some relevance! http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html —— Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

assume we are talking about fly fishermen.  Think we have two major groups. very rich with their float boat guides and trips to Chili  and the rural low income folks  who just have always fished because it is a way of life. The folks who amaze me are the governmental workers and the educators who seem to spend half their time fishing, and half their time posting on the internet.    Relative to income –some of us thought we were in the higher bracket, but due to recent stock market now find ourselves   trying to catch and eat. Indian Joe

Response:

OK. Since you decline to answer.  For a number of years I worked for ICI ( Imperial Chemical Industries ) in England. I possess a City and Guilds of London Certificate in chemical plant operation, ( With distinction ). and I was, among other things,  chief operator of the ethoxylation facility. I am not a chemist as such, but have a good basic knowledge of chemistry.( OK perhaps a little more than just "basic"), it was essential for my job at the time. I manufactured thousands of tons of the stuff which you are mixing and selling as your own invention.    H    H     I      I    C=C     I     I    H   H Usually written    H    H     I      I    C=C    —–    Addition polymerisation.     I     I    H   H This is Ethene ( Common name Ethylene)  C2H4 The symbol above is the most common way of writing an ethylene molecule, known as a "monomer".  When polymerised this gives Polythene ( Poly Etyhlene)  which is a common thermoplastic. When combined with oxygen, it gives EO2  which is Ethylene Oxide, a highly reactive substance, which is a primary ingredient in the processes used to produce the ingredients of the stuff you sell, Gink and Xink. Any chemist, or anybody with even a faint knowledge of chemistry would recognise it immediately. How remarkably strange that the "inventor" of a substance has no idea what is in it. Just to be absolutely certain I researched the US patent office.  Here is the extract. —- United States Patent  4,184,889 Gehrke  January 22, 1980 —- Fly, line and leader sinker composition Abstract A composition for application to fishing flies, lines and leaders to cause them to sink when placed in water. —- Inventors:  Gehrke; George E. (Drawer 1204, Salida, CO 81201) Appl. No.:  909667 Filed:  May 25, 1978 Current U.S. Class: 106/267; 43/4; 516/204; 516/DIG1 Intern’l Class:  C08L 091/00 Field of Search:  106/266,267,243 —- References Cited [Referenced By] —- U.S. Patent Documents 3526596 Sep., 1970 Kress et al. 252/52. 3872048 Mar., 1975 Brown 252/52. Foreign Patent Documents 995085 Jun., 1965 GB. Primary Examiner: Morris; Theodore Attorney, Agent or Firm: Wymore; Max L. —- Claims —- What is claimed is: 1. A composition of the matter to be applied to a fly, line or leader to cause same to sink below the surface of the water when cast by a fisherman which comprises about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol, about one part by volume of sorbitan monolaurate and about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil blended together. 2. The composition of matter of claim 1 wherein the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenyl has a molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct, of four. 3. The composition of matter of claim 1 including a small amount of cod liver oil and a silica thickener. 4. A method of treating a line or fly to promote sinking when cast in water which comprises applying a composition thereto of about four parts by volume of a surface active agent consisting of the non-ionic reaction products of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol and mixing about one part therewith of sorbitan monolaurate to prevent the formation of an immersible gell between the reaction products and the water. —- Description —- One of the problems confronting the avid fly fisherman is the ability of having a fly sink fast after it is cast into the water. One solution has been to use split shot on the leader or by the use of weighted flies; however, the weighted flies do not move in a natural manner and the use of split shot on the leader makes for difficult, inaccurate and sometimes, unsafe casting. While some fly fishermen have used a sinking liquid applied to the leader, this liquid will not stay on the leader and needs to be reapplied practically for each and every cast. The benefits and advantages of the present invention are achieved by the use of a composition of matter formulated to provide ease of application and a composition that will stay on a fly and cause it to sink rapidly for many, many successive casts and wherein the fly sinks down low to where the fish are. The sinker compound works so well and lasts such a very long time that in most instances, there is no need to use split shot or weighted flies. The composition is also an excellent leader sink and makes sinking lines sink even faster. It is a primary object of this invention to provide a fly, line and leader sinker composition that is easy to use, wipes off fingers easily, provides rapid sinking to lines, leaders and flies and is retained thereon for a multitude of successive casts. Another object of the invention is to provide a sinking composition that does not interfere with the natural movement of flies and will permit safe and accurate casting. A still further object of the present invention is to provide a sinking composition many times better than previously available compositions and avoids the use of a streamer or nymph to achieve sink characteristics. Additional benefits and advantages of the present invention become apparent upon the reading of the description of the preferred embodiment. The fly, line and leader sinker composition according to this invention consists of about four parts by volume of Surfonic N-40 surface active agent, about one part by volume of Span 20 and about ten parts by weight of a mineral oil. The composition may also contain a small amount of cod liver oil for scent purposes, a small amount of mineral oil and a small amount of Aerosil 200 as a thickening agent. These ingredients are mixed together to form a highly viscous liquid product. The Surfonic N-40 is manufactured by Jefferson Chemical Company, Inc. and is available from VanWaters & Rogers, division of Univar, 4300 Holly St., Denver, Col. 80216. Surfonic N-40 surface active agent is a non-ionic reaction product of ethylene oxide with nonyl phenol. The products are designated by a number following the letter "N". The number is a ten-fold multiple of the molar ratio of ethylene oxide in the adduct. The surface active properties result from the combination of the hydrophilic polyoxyethylene chain and the hydrophobic nonyl phenol. These groups combine to form a molecule which "crosses" the oil-water interface and breaks down the surface tension so as to promote a dispersion. Surfonic N-40 is water-insoluble, oil-soluble. When the Surfonic N-40 alone contacts water, the water acts with the Surfonic N-40 to produce an immiscible gel. A surfactant Span 20 is added to the Surfonic N-40 and when mixed therewith, prevents hydration of the Surfonic N-40 from producing an immiscible gel. Span 20 is a trademark of ICI Americas, Inc., Specialty Chemicals Division, Wilmington, Del. 19897 and is used to identify a non-ionic surfactant of sorbitan monolaurate. The composition may also include about ten parts by weight of a medium grade mineral oil and a small amount of a thickness such as silica known by the trade name Aerosil 200 a product of Degussa Corp., Route 46 at Hollister Rd., P.O. Box 2004, Teterboro, N.J. 07608. The resulting composition is a thick amber liquid that can be placed on the figures and rubbed into a fly, line or leader. When a fly, line or leader treated with the composition of this invention is cast into water, the fly, line and/or leader will sink immediately and will avoid any tendency of floating on top of the water. The line, fly and/or leader so treated can be cast and re-cast numerous times without the necessity of renewing the sinker composition. The present invention may be embodied in other specific forms without departing from the spirit or essential characteristics thereof. The presently disclosed embodiment is, therefore, to be considered in all respects as illustrative and not restrictive, the scope of the invention being indicated by the appended claims rather than by the foregoing description, and all changes which come within the meaning and range of equivalency of the claims are, therefore, intended to be embraced therein. * * * * * —- END OF COPY. What this basically means is, you managed to "bamboo"zle and bullshit the US Patent Office into granting you a patent on a soap mixture.  With Silica, mineral oil, etc ( see above) added.  You have been filling this mixture into little bottles, and selling it to the unsuspecting angling public for years. Do you actually add "scent" ?  Most unsporting. Whatever, a drop of any reasonable detergent works better, and has no mineral oil or other crap in it. Any chemist would be laughing himself sick at all this. If you are a chemist, then I am the Archangel Michael. Would you like an independent analysis of Gink as well?  No trouble I assure you. MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ? Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. .  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses.

Response:

H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

It’s quite interesting how G alludes that Mike C’s posts are derogatory towards US citizens.  I assume that this is supposed to drum up support for his "case".

Response:

You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin.

ROFF Backyard Wrestling !  It’s a hoot ! I’m waiting for Chyna to come out and beat both of you over the head with a folding metal chair ! Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Don Thompson writes: Germany used 88mm main guns on its tank Georgie.No reference to an 80mm gun.

Uh, Don, uh, you will confuse him with facts.  This is the guy that flew F-100s in Korea and shot down MiG-19s a year before they came out, and a year after the war ended.  Besides, by his own words, he tells us he has been tying flies for "four score years".  The sucker is over 100 years old, apparently. BTW, I have seen and fished with Mike Connor tied flies.  They are superb examples of the art, and he gave them freely without me asking, without me supporting him, without me endorsing anything.  Of course he hasn’t been tying for 80 something years like George……. I’ve also cast a rod designed and built by Mike.  I own (moment of insanity, I know) a rod built by Gehrke.  There is no comparison to the way Mike’s rod casts to the tomato stake that George made.  If only I had pulled a Vern at the The Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Response:

I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

I would ask you all to refrain from answering this until Mr Gehrke does so. I have my reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something

Response:

That ain’t shit, look at this:                 S                     S                         S                             S                                 S                                 S                             S                         S                     S                 S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s nothing This is something     H   H      l     l H-C=C-H      l     l     H   H This is something else which is supposed to destroy cells in some part of your body.  I forget which part. This is something better.     H   H      l     l H-C=C-OH      l     l     H   H The chemistry may explain why english beer is bad. %^) H    H I      I C=C       What is it?  What can you make of it, and how? I     I H   H MC

Response:

Now that’s a post for the ages, if I ever saw one.  Thanks for warmin’ my heart this morn Mike.  I am headed out to Wilson Creek in an hour to fish with another fine ROFFian, Wally Boy.  Mike you deserve a beer basket for this one.  If only I were so damned articulate! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

… You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. …

Priceless. A tad harsh on pigs and alley cats not to mention downright insulting to bricks but a ROFF Hall of Fame post nonetheless. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Where do you get all this crap from ?  

Snipped a ton of ignorant guessing about many things you know NOTHING of. Look Connor, you old, wrong opinionated fool.  My rates for my Internet Service is $199.00 for a full year.  The DEDICATED phone line is $25.95 a month.  This is only $322.40 for a full year.  Amount of hours I use each month regarding Internet business exceeds 80 hours a month, which equates to about .32 Cents AN HOUR!  So what is your problem, moron? Don’t you believe these rates, you bullshit artist? Next, do you want me to send you a video tape of me flying my airplane? How about a grand tour of my chemistry lab?  Who gives a shit what YOU think?  Incidentally, there is nothing I don’t know about an internal combustion engine.  American kids, cut their teeth on them since puberty.  Americans were the boys in W.W.II that would take abandoned German Tanks, and get them running with a pair of pliers and bailing wire.  Then they would turn that 80 MM cannon around and pepper those Nazi’s asses. So don’t tell us we don’t know anything about engines, wrist pin. I bet if I said belly button, you would write a poem or essay on it for Roff? Okay, "Billy Button!" Connor, I know more about fly tying in my little finger then what you will know in the next fifty years.  I will say (for the record) you have a NICE signature as a fly tier, but what does the rest of your concerns amount too?  A waste of our valuable time because it proves nothing regarding what you know about us in America. I never, in all my life, saw anyone like you.  You jump on every subject,  you offer up endless amounts of crap we all already know about and you always seem to be looking for a pat on the head. Okay.  I can do that.   Nice Connor.  Nice Connor.  Good boy, Connor. Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Response:

Look?  Let me put it this way.  Pick one subject you don’t know anything about or ask me one question you don’t know the answer too, and I’ll teach you, okay? Or don’t you get the point?

Here’s a topic for you George. It should be easy for you since you seem to know so much about the internet. Describe how to get non-blocking routing through a toriodal interconnect fabric of any dimension. Paul

Response:

Exceeds $50,000 a year.  So what is the problem with paying $300 a year or

less for all the Internet Phone Time one would care to use, again, FOR A FULL YEAR without limits on amount of time. How cheap can you get? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

Where do you get all this crap from ?   Do you hear voices or something? Did some nutcase of your acquaintance and similar persuasion, mistake you for a tree, and hammer a nail in your head?   Just what the hell is the matter with you? To date we have been treated to various spectacle as a direct result of your general ignorance and incompetence. You are a chemist who does not know the first thing about even elementary chemistry, you are a pilot who has flown non-existent planes, you are an engineer who knows nothing of the by-products of internal combustion engines, an environmentalist who uses the most wasteful possible modes of transport,  you are an expert at fly-tying, although apparently unaware of how, or even if, many materials may be obtained and used, playwriting, poetry, hunting, casting and rod-building, we wont go into that, etc etc etc . And of course you are a genius ! Even the thought of somebody like you flying around in something as complex as an aeroplane gives me the shudders, even if you were only a passenger. You have the manners of a pig, the social skills of an alley cat, the general knowledge of a house brick, literally stink of ignorance and prejudice in a host of forms, and for some weird and probably completely unknowable reason, you think you are a gentleman as well. Your only apparent genius is for making nonsensical, grammatically and otherwise, barely intelligible statements,  which invariably turn out to have virtually no foundation whatsoever. Absolutely amazing. Is there not at least some faint feeble aspect of your character which is not mean, ignorant, and nasty? Your proclamations, as far as they are decipherable, invariably bear incontrovertible witness to your ignorance. Just for your information, my phone bill is in excess of 250$ per month. Even though I have reduced my internet activities considerably. I only have a small business which I now operate completely single-handed.  It is successful, as my products and work are beyond reproach, I have not had a single customer return in all the years I have been self-employed. Not even the stuff I send  per UPS is faulted. A fact that I am extremely proud of. Doubtless UPS as well.  I work long hours at difficult and physically and mentally demanding work, and then I come on here for a bit of enjoyment and have to listen to loonies like you, who have probably never done a decent days work in their entire lives, have no discernible morals, and earn their money selling a load of awful shit, most of which they do not even understand, making various statements as if they had been handed down on tablets of stone. Perhaps I should start building rods or manufacturing floatant?   If some of the competition is indeed as lousy as its reputation suggests, then I ought to make a mint. Before you start spouting bullshit, at least make an attempt, no matter how feeble, to get some information on the subject first. What I earn is none of your business. But rest assured, I earn it. MC "The gaga continues".

Response:

Question:

and having much love and respect for my little 3 wt. I decided it was getting late and time to leave. When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning. Those that are about a foot long are a hell of a lot of fun on a fly rod. Last summer here in the Dallas area there were grasshoppers on three of our area lakes which were matched by hoppers tied on size 2/0 hooks. One guy caught a 10 pound channel cat that took one of those huge hopper patterns off the surface. I don’t know what weight rod he was using. Big Dale  

It’s amazing the variety of species that will take a dry under the right circumstances.  My son went up North fishing for walleye on his uncles boat.  He didn’t take any fly gear with him, instead he borrowed spinning gear from his uncle.  They got the boat out onto the lake, motored over to Serge’s favourite walleye spot only to see hundreds of walleye sipping hexes off the top.  They were both skunked.  He was kinda kicking himself when he got home. I’ve also heard of walleye taking midges in the middle of winter. Peter

Response:

Had a 15lb cat take a Frank’s Fighting Craw in the shallows when I was fission for bass.  I pulled away from shore to keep him out of the weeds. When I finally got him close enough to get the hook out, he flipped and spiked my tube.  I was using my life vest for floatation before I got to shore.         Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I broke the only rod I’ve ever broken on a fish, trying to land a big catfish. I was in a float tube and got towed around the lake for awhile. I finally got the fish up to the tube and while trying to figure out how and the hell I was going to "land" it, it dove straight down, the rod broke at the ferrule and the tippet popped. Willi a fly and having much love and respect for my little 3 wt. I decided it was getting late and time to leave. When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning. Those that are about a foot long are a hell of a lot of fun on a fly rod. Last summer here in the Dallas area there were grasshoppers on three of our area lakes which were matched by hoppers tied on size 2/0 hooks. One guy caught a 10 pound channel cat that took one of those huge hopper patterns off the surface. I don’t know what weight rod he was using. Big Dale

Response:

Dale, Oak Creek in Arizona had channel cats which cruised up and down  the stream in groups of three or four.  They were quite different from regular cat fish.  It was not uncommon to take one while fishing for trout.  They fought and tasted quite good. Ernie When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring,

especialy <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Big Dale

Response:

Had a 15lb cat take a Frank’s Fighting Craw in the shallows when I was fission for bass.  I pulled away from shore to keep him out of the weeds. When I finally got him close enough to get the hook out, he flipped and spiked my tube.  I was using my life vest for floatation before I got to shore.        Frank Reid

Dang Frank, is that what you call poetic justice?  Besides, if you were "fission" he probably would glow in the dark.  :-) Frank (missed ‘im by a whisker) Church

Response:

It’s amazing the variety of species that will take a dry under the right circumstances.  My son went up North fishing for walleye on his uncles boat.  He didn’t take any fly gear with him, instead he borrowed spinning gear from his uncle.  They got the boat out onto the lake, motored over to Serge’s favourite walleye spot only to see hundreds of walleye sipping hexes off the top.  They were both skunked.  He was kinda kicking himself when he got home. I’ve also heard of walleye taking midges in the middle of winter.

I was lucky enough to hit a hatch of large mayflies on a trip to northern Canada with my father. I caught both Walleyes and a number of small Lakers on dries. My father never learned to fly fish and was able to catch only one small Laker. Walleyes taking midges though is a new one for me. That would be fun! Willi

Response:

When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning.

Okay. Where on the Front Range can one find channel cats? Even seeing the word "catfish" is making me homesick for Kansas. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

Mike, stand up, close your eyes, click your heels together three times and say ‘there’s no place like home’. Hell, if Dorothy can do it… Herman <snip Okay. Where on the Front Range can one find channel cats? Even seeing the word "catfish" is making me homesick for Kansas. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Mike, stand up, close your eyes, click your heels together three times and say ‘there’s no place like home’. Hell, if Dorothy can do it…

It was the dog the whole time… — Charlie…

Response:

When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning. Okay. Where on the Front Range can one find channel cats? Even seeing the word "catfish" is making me homesick for Kansas.

Cherry Creek Reservoir has a strong population of good sized Channel Cats. They are also stocked in lots of the smaller lakes around the metro area. Willi

Response:

Mike, stand up, close your eyes, click your heels together three times and say ‘there’s no place like home’. Hell, if Dorothy can do it… Herman

        responses like that are the best (hell, maybe the *only) reason to hang out in this nuthouse.  hilarious, herman. wayno

Response:

Mike, stand up, close your eyes, click your heels together three times and say ‘there’s no place like home’. Hell, if Dorothy can do it…

I tried that yesterday. I was still stuck in Denver traffic, only this time I was standing outside of my car on I-25. And I don’t think I had time to set the parking brake while I was clicking. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

        we are all going to need a great deal of time on the water to heal the wounds that have come from the recent Great Absurdity.

   Great Absurdity, like that term. Willi

Response:

I broke the only rod I’ve ever broken on a fish, trying to land a big catfish. I was in a float tube and got towed around the lake for awhile. I finally got the fish up to the tube and while trying to figure out how and the hell I was going to "land" it, it dove straight down, the rod broke at the ferrule and the tippet popped. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and having much love and respect for my little 3 wt. I decided it was getting late and time to leave. When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning. Those that are about a foot long are a hell of a lot of fun on a fly rod. Last summer here in the Dallas area there were grasshoppers on three of our area lakes which were matched by hoppers tied on size 2/0 hooks. One guy caught a 10 pound channel cat that took one of those huge hopper patterns off the surface. I don’t know what weight rod he was using. Big Dale

Response:

Finally got out yesterday for a spot of thrashing the water.

        (nice report snipped)         now, then, john, don’t you have to admit that this subject matter just beats hell out of that political hogshit?         we are all going to need a great deal of time on the water to heal the wounds that have come from the recent Great Absurdity. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

and having much love and respect for my little 3 wt. I decided it was getting late and time to leave.

When I was living in the Austin area a few years ago I learned that you can take channel cats on a fly rod WITH DRY FLIES at times in the spring, especialy when they are spawning. Those that are about a foot long are a hell of a lot of fun on a fly rod. Last summer here in the Dallas area there were grasshoppers on three of our area lakes which were matched by hoppers tied on size 2/0 hooks. One guy caught a 10 pound channel cat that took one of those huge hopper patterns off the surface. I don’t know what weight rod he was using. Big Dale  

Response:

Finally got out yesterday for a spot of thrashing the water. There is a little lake about 5 miles from the house that is just eat up with hungry small bream so, time being short, I chose that location to relax. Poppers were not interesting to the denizens of the deep so I tied on a bitty streamer of no real pattern and began flailing. I was having a blast dragging 6 to 8" fish from home and hearth and plopping them back when another angler sauntered down to the fishing dock. Likable guy, fishing cats with shrimp, no problem, we talked and fished. He was pulling cats, I bream. Then it happened, his line straightened and began singing off his reel. Now this guy was fishing with, as I would describe as salt water gear, 15-20 lb. test stuff. Of coarse I pulled up till the fight would be over. After about 5 min or a week dependant on your outlook, and a close call around a piling, a three foot channel cat was within the reach of my net and promptly was on the dock. Because Cats there have been known to take a fly and having much love and respect for my little 3 wt. I decided it was getting late and time to leave.

Response:

Question:

Walked back to my car, drove to a stop-n-rob in town. I went in to get

a coke and got a few looks for free. < Uhhh, I believe that’s phrased "some coke."  Or aren’t you a Bush fan?  <g

Response:

One trip does seem memorable.

        indeed it was, poh-leece.  thanks for sharing. wayno

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Walked back to my car, drove to a stop-n-rob in town. I went in to get a coke and got a few looks for free. < Uhhh, I believe that’s phrased "some coke."  Or aren’t you a Bush fan?  <g

I’ve long since learned that putting the daily caffeine up one’s nose is easily misunderstood. Once you start down that dark path, forever will people think you’re into disco or something like that. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

Well, I did end up sneaking off for an hour or so this past week. The sun was out and the temperature got above freezing for a little while, but no go. There was a lot of ice and not a lot of moving water, and my #20 Adams didn’t seem to garner much attention from the fish. I guess I’m going to call this season closed and see what turns up in the spring. For now, it’s time to take the line off my reel and dress it, oil my reel (any reason not to use BreakFree CLP for that?), and worry about hunting for a few months. The final score for this season: Mike: A few trout, a few bass, a passel of bluegills, a few good days out on the water, a few good trips. If that’s not happiness, it’s a pretty good approximation. One trip does seem memorable. I went up to one reservoir near one town commonly referred to as a "People’s Republic." Stopped at the Mustard’s Last Stand for probably the most overpriced Chicago-Style hot dog I’ve ever had outside of an airport in my life. The guy behind the counter actually put ketchup on my dog. Ketchup! That, more than anything, proves that Boulder is a den of communists and so forth. Ended up on the water at about midmorning. Alas, I ended up on the wrong side of the water. About a quarter mile away I heard bass jumping. I decided to see what I could do where I was, and tied on a #10 yellow Wooly Bugger. Got a few sunfish on that, even though my casting sucked, my retrieves were clumsy, I don’t know much about streamer fishing, and I was FISHING STREAMERS IN A LAKE WITH A FREAKING FLOATING LINE! I don’t own anything but a floating line! It’s nice to know that hungry sunfish do exist. I got tempted to bonk them and call it a shore lunch, but they had a no-fires rule and some of the rangers were friends of mine and that could have been embarassing. I guess that’s why I had a couple of granola bars with me too. After lunch I moved over to where I heard the bass. Because of where the brush was, I had to wade to them. Oops, forgot my waders, but the water was warm enough so I just charged in. Oops again, soaked my billfold. Luckily, nothing with a magnetic stripe got wet. Tied on a #4 Muddler and started working it around the half-sunken trees. WHAM!!! My lure got positively hammered by a bass. And let me tell you, my friends, Mr. Micropterus Salmoides on a 5wt and 2x tippet is a kick in the ass. Spent a couple of minutes playing him, enough to temporarily scare the crap off of every other fish nearby, and then executed a skillful long-distance release. No, I don’t know how big he was. A chunky foot long, if I had to guess, and more energetic than my parents’ Golden Retriever after a triple espresso.  One moment I thought my rod was gonna break, and the next instant, "Hmmm,  the rod’s not bending any more." After a fight like that, it was time to rest the water. Never mind that my fly box was up on shore. I wandered out of the water, sat back, lit up, opened a warm MGD that made up the other half of my lunch, and got busy tying on another fly. Except for one tiny problem: Only one #4 Muddler and I just LDR’ed it. I decided to try my one other reasonably-large streamer, a heavily-weighted #4 Gray Ghost. Actually, aside from a really-chewed Bugger and a big-ass black Dahlberg Diver that I didn’t think I could cast, it was the only streamer, period. Then I noticed yet another oops. I had a knife, past tense. Must have slipped out of my pocket while I was fighting that bass. If any of you are wading in the Boulder Reservoir and find a half-serrated stainless Smith and Wesson folding knife, it’s probably mine. Eventually, I got the Gray Ghost tied on and went forth to do battle. I decided to try something different: casting into open water, letting it sink for several minutes, and a really slow retrieve. After about 30 casts, I thought I felt something. I lifted the rod and yanked on the line, and got another WHAM! Whatever I hooked into, well, it definitely was a fish. It never came near the surface and didn’t swim all that fast, but it seemed pretty big. I’m guessing a catfish-I’ve heard there are a few of them in that water. Alas, I only had maybe a minute, maybe less, and then got my fly back. I’m still to this day not sure what I had. Then I saw that the sun had moved over-time must have moved a little faster than I thought it had. Maybe my time resting the water went a little long, I don’t know. I edged up on shore and saw a City of Boulder Open Space Ranger standing there. A very pretty one. Now, the odds of my having an affair are pretty much zero, but this lady was one of the reasons that I am grateful every day that whatever gods may exist took the time to create the female of the species. "Let me guess, my license." "Yeah, if you don’t mind." Gave her the license, made some small talk. We knew a couple of people in common and caught up on gossip. I keep thinking, I’ve got my certificate, I’ve got a bachelor’s in biology, I should put in with some parks or wildlife department. They look like they have so much fun. Walked back to my car, drove to a stop-n-rob in town. I went in to get a coke and got a few looks for free. I guess they don’t have too many soaking-wet patrons in good weather. Drove 30 or so miles home, walked in the door, "Honey, you’re soaked. And you’re as red as a lobster." Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

Question:

I was recently introduced to fly fishing ( a long story of which I will spare you the details).  I took a 1/2 day lesson with a very experienced instructor which I greatly enjoyed and considered very valuable.  I know I still have a lot to learn and look forward to it, but I cannot afford more lessons.  Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera.  On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, …  I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer … plus a good friendship.  I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you. Let me know if you want to know more about myself or perhaps meet me.  I look forward to hearing from you.  Thank you so much in advance. Rafael  

Response:

<snip  Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe;<snip  On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, <snip  I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you.

  Drive on out to Colorado and bring a box of Cohibas, and I will let you watch me fish. You can surprise me with the good food and beer.                                    Charlie

Response:

Try finding a local flyfishing club.  Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport.  Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with.  My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes.  I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local. —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera.

Response:

Try finding a local flyfishing club.  Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport.  Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with.  My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes.  I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local.

– Rafael, ol’ buddy. This could be your most important flyfishing lesson of all. Never trust any flyfisherman who turns down a good cigar, good food, and good beer. Club schmub. Gas up and head for Colorado. That was a much better deal:)) BP

Response:

Actually Meta might be right.  Obviously clubs aren’t for him.  That offer from Colorado does sound pretty good.  If you want to drive all that way to become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself.  If that doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy.  Actually, you could try a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.–                                                            -dnc- PS.  By the way, I would gladly take you up on your offer for food and beer.  But alas, I hate cigars.  So I guess maybe you could trust me about two-thirds of the time.  Or perhaps the cigar thing is the telling factor, we’ll have to wait for sage Meta to pass us the phacts on that one.

Response:

On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, …  I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer …

Sounds like a HELL of an offer to me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<Actually Meta might be right.  Obviously clubs aren’t for him.  That offer <from Colorado does sound pretty good.  If you want to drive all that way to <become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself.  If that <doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you <can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy.  Actually, you could t<ry a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. <Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– <   <                                                         -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles.  Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless? Given the options to fish there, would one really want to spend the summer talking about ff in CT by comparison? Why drive? United, who does allow you to carry on flyrods, flies there cheap. As for cigars, I thought Rafael was gettin’  off easy only having to supply Cohibas instead of providing the proper cigar for each hatch. And he did say good food, so let’s at least call him a chef. But for clubs, to paraphrase Graucho Marx (famous cigar smoker), " I wouldn’t join any club that would have me as a member."

Response:

<Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– <   <                                                         -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles.  Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless?

Not too serious, I hope.  But your rejoinder has given me a good laugh, so thank you…I think.  Unfortunately, you are 100% correct about the spring creeks (not even sure if I could define the term, although smooth water and the need for delicate presentation comes to mind…certainly an experience to be sought, and probably worth a few cigars!). As far as clubs go, they can offer an awful lot of free information for the urbanite neophyte.  So I say try it.  It couldn’t hoit.  Who knows, they might offer you a cigar.

Response:

(JRGonza) writes: SNIP<

I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too).  Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs.   99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice.  Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky.  Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out).  Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing.  I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP

Response:

The Curtis Creek Manifesto is hilarious and good.  The author was a friend of my Dads and he lived near the Williamson River in Oregon.  He’s dead now, the victim, I think, of hard and fast living. As for mentors, my Dad was the best for me.  I am a fourth generation fly fisherman and that wisdom of the ages is good to have. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (JRGonza) writes: SNIP< I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too).  Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs.   99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice.  Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky.  Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out).  Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing.  I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP

Response:

Question:

There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for

You have many brothers and they have many faces. The whole C&R issue breeds this type of mentality. Just think for a minute if you had to work real hard just to catch one fish, rather than become jaded by the fact that you catch many and play into the sickness. The other fact is the "O" company portrays the one stop, "Fly Fisherman in a Can" mentality that everyone despises just because of its marketing and distribution. Not real great stuff all the time, just under one roof. What about all the guides that jumped upon train to sell themselves? This issue is becoming inbred. Hey, fishing is the second known profession. Then there’s the asshole that can ruin everybody’s day by one simple deed. Sometimes they don’t even know what their doing or why. Learn to be nice when you are astream and people will respond in kind, try it, it does work. We fly fisher people do tend to be stuffy at times. We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait. . — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for You have many brothers and they have many faces. The whole C&R issue breeds this type of mentality.

You know I feel much for Spinolio having experienced many of my own dark nights and a sequence of grey years. Flyfishing for me was reason to keep going. It gave me something to look forward to and to dream about. What ticks me off is the posters who take advantage of this to climb on a soap box on one side or the other and blame the whole thing on one aspect of the sport or on one tackle supplier. This applies equally to the fellow who complained that killing a fish that could grow larger is selfish and that most who kill fish don’t eat them (then what prey tell are we doing with them if you know so much!) My best to Spinolio I hope you work this out. Don’t be afraid to ask for help if the darkness widens or seems it can never end. Some journeys are not meant to traversed alone. Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

: Rick, : I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t : have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was : one of the classic posts on this ng. OK, can we just occasionally pass along the comment "Speak English or Die" without explanation as a salute that Spinolio once passed this way? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

Rick, I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was one of the classic posts on this ng. Mitch

Response:

: Rick, : I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t : have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was : one of the classic posts on this ng. OK, can we just occasionally pass along the comment "Speak English or Die" without explanation as a salute that Spinolio once passed this way?

I’ll second that, except perhaps we should use… "Brian Keith on steroids" as a better visual. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

Search www.dejanews.com on "george gehrke red conservative"… etc in the old usenet database and you will find it. Charlie…

Response:

: Search www.dejanews.com on "george gehrke red conservative"… etc in : the old usenet database and you will find it. Thanks for that reminder.  It’s important to search the"old" list rather than the new. I’ve decided Spinolio is really out fishing rather than reading and writing.  I’m looking forward to doing the same when the season opens here.  Of course, it will be tougher for me, since I don’t have Spinolio’s resources.  I’m sure he is raking in the bucks from his copyrighted works. A fine example is below: ("Fine Fettle" is a copyrited term of Spinolio Enterprises, 1992. All rights reserved.) As in "Tim and Ralph are in fine fettle today."  (Note the quotes after the period.) So… do I owe Steve money? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the   outdoors, away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE !   and what resides there-in. The mindless killing of fish that stand a   chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish.  How many   people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ?

I certainly understand what you are saying about stress, work etc…, but I don’t get what you are asserting with respect to killing fish etc. I eat ALL the fish that I keep (except for the bits I give to others to eat) – down to usually making stock out of the frames.  Why would you keep a fish if you weren’t going to eat it? It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in many respects as well. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in many respects as well.

There is a glimmer of hope in this statement.  Thanks Tony.   Nothing selfish about eating, that’s for damned sure. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait.

If we were southern bass fishermen we’d be chucking ‘fly baits’.   [Referring, of course, to spinner baits, crank baits, etc.] — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

I agree.   Steve is one of the most naturally gifted writers I have ever read. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the outdoors , away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE ! and what resides there-in . The mindless killing of fish that stand a chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish  . How many people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ?

Don’t frikken’ push me pal… How many people actually eat the fish they keep ?   I don’t know how many people exactly, but I can honestly say that all fishermen do. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you     can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in     many respects as well.    There is a glimmer of hope in this statement.  Thanks Tony.      Nothing selfish about eating, that’s for damned sure.    –    TimW These are (and always have been) just my opinions on the matter. Don’t thank me for having an opinion!  There is a time to kill and a time to release.   With apologies to grisham. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Steve… Are you the devil ?   If so, I’ve been looking for you.  Why are you so hard to find ? Hey…what’s the going rate to fish and hunt everyday for the next 50 years ?  The rest of eternity in hell, you say, you keep my soul ?   …. Let me think about it a bit, eh ?  Do you have a FAX ? …you know where I am too, the river is in incredible shape. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die." There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness…

The classic chicken & egg question. Good move though. Rid yourself of all the trappings and look at each piece for its merits. Mitch

Response:

Someone once asked me"If you like to fish so much , howcum you don’t fish in them tournaments?" I answered "Because I like to fish so much." Blank stare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

– Flyfish NC http://planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the outdoors , away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE ! and what resides there-in . The mindless killing of fish that stand a chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish  . How many people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ? Someone once asked me"If you like to fish so much , howcum you don’t fish in them tournaments?" I answered "Because I like to fish so much." Blank stare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

– Flyfish NC http://planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

Response:

We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait. If we were southern bass fishermen we’d be chucking ‘fly baits’. [Referring, of course, to spinner baits, crank baits, etc.] — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Fly baits hard to cast with a baitcasting reel! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

My best to Spinolio I hope you work this out. Don’t be afraid to ask for help if the darkness widens or seems it can never end. Some journeys are not meant to traversed alone.

Indeed!  However, I feel the act of discovery is the real beginning of the solution. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough. Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

Spinolio, Perhaps it is time to get that ten dollar rod back out and spend an afternoon fishing for bream with a 5 year old?   I too once went through the troubling competetive problem. I tuna fished and my type A "Hobby" ended up becoming like another job for me.  I put too much into it and got little in return, with the exception of actually looking forward to relaxing at work on Monday.  I gave up the 29′ boat and haven’t particularly missed it.  Now I fly fish and the solitude has helped make me calmer and easier to deal with, although I’m a little distressed that my girlfriend commented on how the captain on one of this mornings fishing shows wasn’t yelling at the girl who fouled the rod tip.  I guess I have a ways to go, but between you and me, my blood pressure is down considerably. Take heart, when fishing becomes too serious, it may be time to take up golf. Rediscover the sport.  It has a lot to offer. — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

Response:

Take heart, when fishing becomes too serious, it may be time to take up golf. Rediscover the sport.  It has a lot to offer.

Mark’s right.  Well not about the golf part… but there is always a way to be that beginner with the fiberglass rod and level line.  For me it’s bass.  I’ve been learning for about a year now and am still very much a beginner with bass.  "When your full sinking line starts sinking faster or slows down" is just begining to make the sense that "when your leader behaves differently strike" on a trout stream does.  When you start to feel ownership of a stretch of water (i.e. "some yahoo was in my favorite pool and he was F-ing it up!"), or a whole rivers for that matter, is when the darkness takes over.  Become the Yahoo and it’s an adventure in discovery again.  The newsgroup of course is absolutely useless and should be abandoned immediately   Phil

Response:

Spinolio, We all have a darkside! When the competition becomes the primary motivation it is time to stop and "smell the roses." Mark is right about taking a child fishing. Their excitement is in the experience of fishing. After you take a  child fishing take a handicapped person fishing. Someone who has never fished and needs help in even holding the rod. Watch their face when you catch a three inch sunny! It will make you remember your first fish, the good feeling you had and the darkside will brighten. There is much more to fly fishing and life than the competitive part. The older I get the more I enjoy the simple things in life, like sunrise while sitting on the bank of my favorite stream. Have a good day, Dennis   — Dennis C. Aron Independent Representative #13921 Champion Fishing Co., Ltd e-mail for business opportunity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

  Spinolio   I would forget golf, just put the pipe down for a while.    harry

Response:

Question:

It’s walming up over hear in holland and I am itching to have a go and flyfishing for carp.    Is there any on out ther that can provide me thith a fiew tips,  tactics,  and carp dedicated patterns etc. Julian Young PS. is is also posible to catch walleye on the fly ?

Response:

walleye?  maybe using a minnow pattern — if you’re fishing where the wally’s are chasing bait fish. carp?  try wolly buggers and other leach patterns soaked in garlic juice, vanilla, or peppermint.

Response:

Question:

Looking for info on fishing Yosemite rivers. Planning a Spring ‘96 trip with the family.   Thanks, Russ.

Response:

If you’re backpacking, try out the Tuolumne below Glen Aulin, anywhere along it down to Hetch Hetchy. It’s a serious hike, be prepared.  You can walk in to the falls at Glen Aulin, and fishing the pool at the bottom is fun. You can backpack into some great lakes, like Benson or Smedberg.  While fishing in the back country can be good, fishing off the trail (even a mile) can be terrific.  It’s the crowds, man, you got to get away from the hordes of people who descend upon Yosemite.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater. Hi Jorge- I trust you mean Simm’s Gore-Tex Micro Fiber. I have several pair including a protoype three seasons old. I’m in them just about every day and wear ‘em hard. I walk railroad tracks in 90 degree sun and wade waist deep with ice in the guides. They have yet to let me down.   In short, the micro fibers are great. Maybe better than great. I love them and have not put on neoprenes since. Because they expell moisture (where neoprene doesn’t) the *percieved* temperature is warmer in Gore-Tex than in neoprenes where the air is damp. Your best insulation is from layering fleece, Capilene, etc under a wader rather than depending on 3 or 4mm of neoprene anyway.   Gravel will grind in your shoes and the Micro-Fiber WILL leak in the feet unless you wear neoprene outer socks (provided with the waders). The water that migrates between the socks and the Gore-Tex allows even the feet to breath. Magic.       BEWARE! New models will soon be available with built in neoprene feet. These are convenient to wear (no messing with the neoprene outer sock) but despite what Simms, Orvis or anyone else say, the moisture laden air does NOT migrate up into your legs to be "breathed away". You WILL have wet feet. I have Micro-Fibers both with and without the built in neoprene feet. I’ll spend a minute putting on the extra sock any day to have dry feet!   I’m on the Simms technical advisory panel and work very closely with the company. To hopefully let you know my assesments are honest, let  me say:  Stay away from the Simms Cordura waders. They have a history of leakage problems. Also, I will tell you that Simms has had a very hard time meeting consumer demand and you might have a tough time finding your waders. Also, if you get a leak in your $300.00+ waders, it will take *at least* a month (based on history- their new plant opens next week and maybe this will speed things up) to get them repaired by Simms. You can not fix them at home. There. Now go out and buy a pair with my urging and enjoy! They *ARE* worth it.   Tight lines! Ralph —

  Ralph   Not to be contrary ,but I,ve have buddies that say after a few hours on the river they are soaked from within. Could this be condensation that does not "osmose" through the fabric fast enough ?   Harry  { I looking as well )

Response:

 Ralph  Not to be contrary ,but I,ve have buddies that say after a few hours on the river they are soaked from within. Could this be condensation that does not "osmose" through the fabric fast enough ?

Hi Harry! Contrary? I think not, You asked a good question.    The greater the temperature "differential" (inside the wader vs outside the wader) the better Gore-Tex works. Walking around on a hot day will not only work up a sweat but will not provide much of a "differential" and the Gore-Tex won’t work.  If you’ve worked up a sweat then wade into cold water you’ll be dry in a few minutes. Gore-Tex down jackets and sleeping bags fail miserably because the down is such an efficient insulator the temp differential is minimal.    My guess is that your friends are fishing in very warm water or they have pin hole leaks (a big problem with the Simms *Cordura* Gore-Tex waders. If they are Cordura, have your friends throw them through the wash. The open weave of the Cordura traps very small stickers that poke nearly invisible holes into the Gore-Tex membrane. Very often the wash will soften and dislodge the stickers and the holes will reseal themselves).     Check to see they are using Gore-Tex. Some of the other "waterproof/breathable" materials aren’t as breathable as Gore-Tex and at least one is very prone to clogging with body oils. (All waterproof/breathble fabrics work best when kept relatively clean. Be sure to run them through the drier after they’ve been cleaned, this rejuvenates the water repellent coating applied to the outer fabric.)    Tight lines, Ralph —

Response:

Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft. in about three minutes.  He survived because he was in neoprene and he remembered that they would provide bouyancy.  He lost his rod, but he lived to tell the story. Charley

Response:

Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft.

When Gortex snow suits came out I quickly concluded they were for rich folks who don’t ski a lot.  Those who ski a lot tear up ski clothing, and can’t afford to purchase new gortex every season. By analogy, in my humble opinion, gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t afford new gortex every season. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a question on the topic of Gortex Waders….. Do they provide any bouyancy, ala neoprene?  My buddy fell into the McKenzie last Saturday and was washed downstream about 150 ft. When Gortex snow suits came out I quickly concluded they were for rich folks who don’t ski a lot.  Those who ski a lot tear up ski clothing, and can’t afford to purchase new gortex every season. By analogy, in my humble opinion, gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t afford new gortex every season. — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne  I tied 20 doz. flies for my last pair. Scotts, they lasted 4 years, even in the acid water of the Lower Sac.   Harry

Response:

Wayne, :gortex waders are for rich folks who don’t really fish a lot.  My :neopremes are so patched up they look like they have leprosy.  I can’t :afford new gortex every season. I disagree.  I think that Gortex waders are for those of use who fish so much when it is hot that we would shorten our lifespans without them.  I would typically sweat at least two quarts up in South Park in my neoprenes.  I still sweat in my Goretex, but not nearly as much, because my bodies system actually works with the Goretex.  It’s also great to be able to take off your waders and not feel like you’ve had a bath.  I think that the only alternative to Goretex is to wade wet (which I love to do) but this doesn’t offer as much temperature variability as the Goretex. And that water in S. Park can be quiet cold.  Besides, they make patch kits for Goretex too..

Response:

Harry, I am skeptical of anyone who is associated with a product. I don’t call that contrary,  just smart.  Their credibility is an inverse ratio to their financial involvement.

   The question is: Is there anyone out there who has used the Simms GoreTex waders for a year or so that would go back to using anything else?    I’m only an occasional fisherman, but I’ve had my older type Simms for three years and wouldn’t consider going back to neoprene or ‘lightweights’.  Given the other costs of this sport, I think these waders are pretty good value of the money. — Lloyd Fortney —Opinions are mine—

Response:

  I’m only an occasional fisherman, but I’ve had my older type Simms for three years and wouldn’t consider going back to neoprene or ‘lightweights’.  Given the other costs of this sport, I think these waders are pretty good value of the money. — Lloyd Fortney —Opinions are mine—

Actually, I am convinced there is a place for both.  I absolutely love gore tex for 75% of my fishing.  However, yesterday I was fishing in some pretty cold water and wished i had had on neoprene about the time my feet turned blue. Mike Ray

Response:

Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater.

Response:

Hey does anybody have any experience good/bad with these waders?  They look interesting but are they worth it?  And yes, Gore-Tex does work underwater.

Hi Jorge- I trust you mean Simm’s Gore-Tex Micro Fiber. I have several pair including a protoype three seasons old. I’m in them just about every day and wear ‘em hard. I walk railroad tracks in 90 degree sun and wade waist deep with ice in the guides. They have yet to let me down.    In short, the micro fibers are great. Maybe better than great. I love them and have not put on neoprenes since. Because they expell moisture (where neoprene doesn’t) the *percieved* temperature is warmer in Gore-Tex than in neoprenes where the air is damp. Your best insulation is from layering fleece, Capilene, etc under a wader rather than depending on 3 or 4mm of neoprene anyway.    Gravel will grind in your shoes and the Micro-Fiber WILL leak in the feet unless you wear neoprene outer socks (provided with the waders). The water that migrates between the socks and the Gore-Tex allows even the feet to breath. Magic.        BEWARE! New models will soon be available with built in neoprene feet. These are convenient to wear (no messing with the neoprene outer sock) but despite what Simms, Orvis or anyone else say, the moisture laden air does NOT migrate up into your legs to be "breathed away". You WILL have wet feet. I have Micro-Fibers both with and without the built in neoprene feet. I’ll spend a minute putting on the extra sock any day to have dry feet!    I’m on the Simms technical advisory panel and work very closely with the company. To hopefully let you know my assesments are honest, let  me say:  Stay away from the Simms Cordura waders. They have a history of leakage problems. Also, I will tell you that Simms has had a very hard time meeting consumer demand and you might have a tough time finding your waders. Also, if you get a leak in your $300.00+ waders, it will take *at least* a month (based on history- their new plant opens next week and maybe this will speed things up) to get them repaired by Simms. You can not fix them at home. There. Now go out and buy a pair with my urging and enjoy! They *ARE* worth it.    Tight lines! Ralph —

Response:

Question:

Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

Response:

Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

A couple of hours (maybe 3) south on I-15 is the town of Beaver.  Abt 10 miles (paved) west of town is Minersville Resovoir. It’s catch & release, last weekend we caught fis in the 18-21 inch range.  BTW, a busy day on the lake is maybe 15 people. Regards, KBC

Response:

You will be 5 miles from the Provo River and if you are a serious Fly Fisherman you will be there.  Ask any fishing store, or sports store in orem for more info of the Provo. The other guy mentioned driving 3 hours to some lake down south??? If your willing to drive 3 Hours you can get to the Green River, and ask anybody online, the Green is simply the Best! Good Luck!

Response:

I would opt for the Provo. Although be prepared for crowded conditions on the weekends. I would second the previous post, if your going to drive south 3 hours, play golf, if you want fish hit the Green River, I can almost guarentee you won’t be sorry.

Response: