Question:

Get Delorme’s ‘Topo 4′ or any of the other topographical software packages. They contain a majority of the roads and trails that exist in the U.S. and armed with a GPS receiver and a laptop computer you could more than likely cross the entire country with a minimum of pavement. Someone with savy map and compass skills could pre-select the route and go it on paper, although the lap top and GPS allow you to deviate when you want, or when necessary, as the real time conditions and choices come upon you. Bob Walker

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?"

Response:

I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

Response:

I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. I

Of course that cheap beer you’ve been drinking is bad for you.  If you’d wake up you’d discover that there are already many miles of off roading, some interstate, in the eastern US.  Try Tellico in eastern TN, over the mountains to NC.  In southern KY a network, some requiring very minor on road excursions, can take you into TN.   In the west, all you need to do is look.  Try the UT/CO border for some very good examples.   The idea of Government allowing unlimited access in this age of terrorism won’t fly.  Be happy with what we’ve got. Dick Burg

Response:

Most power lines are on private property, built using right-of-ways. Though the power company can enter the land to maintain their lines, etc., the land is still private, and subject to the owner’s restrictions. You’d have to negoiate with every land owner (and there would be many) to make this work. Good try, though! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

Peter D. Hipson NEHOG (New England Hummer Owners Group) checked monthly.

Response:

Of course that cheap beer you’ve been drinking is bad for you.  If you’d wake up you’d discover that there are already many miles of off roading, some interstate, in the eastern US.  Try Tellico in eastern TN, over the mountains to NC.  In southern KY a network, some requiring very minor on road excursions, can take you into TN.  

All well and good, but those places are far from me. The closest half-decent trail is 50 miles from here.  I have spent many a day looking for someplace around here to go off road. I have been reduced to construction sites and mudholes in parking lots.  Sure, there are atv trails galore, but atv’s require no skill to operate. Any kid can get on one and go anywhere. What is the fun in that? Every non-paved road in this area has either a gate or "NO TRESSPASSING" sign on it.  There are literally thousands of 4 wheel drive SUV’s in the greater Charlotte area.  The only place to go is Uwharrie (50 miles away)  which is lame unless it has been raining for days.  No one can make use of their 4×4 here.  Do you realise that Lake Norman has 800 miles of shoreline and 0 4×4 trails that access it? There used to be a few, on power line rights-of-way, but the snobs that live along the lake forced Duke Power to gate, post and trench every one of them. (Can’t have those poor folk fishing around their million dollar shacks, now can we?) This is a problem that needs addressing. At least in this area. I am looking for the cheapest, least difficult method of correcting this problem. It is surprising that some farmer hasn’t made a 4×4 park yet. With all this drought I would think that would be a good way to make money. I would pay $50 for a season pass, and so would thousands of others. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In the west, all you need to do is look.  Try the UT/CO border for some very good examples.   The idea of Government allowing unlimited access in this age of terrorism won’t fly.  Be happy with what we’ve got. Dick Burg

Response:

deja.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

In the west a lot of the power lines are thoruhg Government land and they need trails and access anyway to maintian them.  A worthy idea and it will get you most of your western states.  Since the Eastern states don’t have as much (if any?) government land… That’s another problem.

Response:

Question:

OK, I found Molunkus.  It’s about 50 miles east of where we go, east of Millinocket.  I know there’s a lot of guides and at least one fly shop in Millinocket.  Try Toute’s Fly Shop in Millinocket (207-723-5442).  Or the Maine Guide Association listings at http://www.maineguides.org/company.html Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water. We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant. I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed. The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

Response:

Craig: Well, I’ve never heard of that place, so I can’t help.  Do you know what waters you will be near?  If you’re planning on bass, maybe you are heading for the upper Kennebec or Grand Lake Stream?  We didn’t get near any smallmouth water at all, it’s all salmon and brookies where we were.  If you are going to be anywhere near Greenville I would recommend contacting the Maine Guide and Fly Shop at PO Box 1202, Greenville, Maine 04441 207 695-2266.  Nice people.  Nice shop. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

Response:

Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water.  We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant.  I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed.  The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady

rain. Some folks here call them Green Drakes but it’s a misnomer, hexes it is. When they come off in good numbers the ponds look like it’s raining bowling balls. I had the good fortune to hit them two summers ago on thistle pond (just north of Nesowadnehunk a mile or so). I went up 8 nights in a row to fish the hatch, simply awesome fishing. I’m currently scheduled to go back up the 7th, they should be in full hatch then. Flyfish

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady rain.

______  What a great descriptive Stan.  Good work! MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Well, they looked like a kind of hexagenia to me, and I know people call them that, but we found little info on the web about hexes really existing in Maine.  Maybe they are really an Eastern Green Drake, but they sure looked true yellow to me.  The Nesowadnehunk inlet is a muddy bottom so it makes sense.  We just call them ‘the big yellow mayfly’ so we all know it’s time to get out the size sixers.  And the hatch my friends saw there last June sounded incredible – so many fish rising it sounded like a steady rain.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry for the bogus reply…I hit the wrong damn button…my eyes must be going… Stan those big yellow mays, if turely size 6, are indeed the Hex hatch…pant pant… Thistle pond here I come…pant pant… beautiful area around Baxter, makes me wish I never quit up at Great Northern Paper (Millinocket) where I had two beautiful years of living on the edge of nowhere… Flyfish

Response:

Sorry for the bogus reply…I hit the wrong damn button…my eyes must be going… Stan those big yellow mays, if turely size 6, are indeed the Hex hatch…pant pant… Thistle pond here I come…pant pant… beautiful area around Baxter, makes me wish I never quit up at Great Northern Paper (Millinocket) where I had two beautiful years of living on the edge of nowhere… Flyfish

Response:

Thanks, Stan….  I believe we will be fishing on the Penobscot mostly.  The owner of the ‘camp’ where we are staying says that there is access to the landlocked salmon on parts of the river, but I got the impression that I’d mostly be fishing for smallmouths.  Thanks again, Craig – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I found Molunkus.  It’s about 50 miles east of where we go, east of Millinocket.  I know there’s a lot of guides and at least one fly shop in Millinocket.  Try Toute’s Fly Shop in Millinocket (207-723-5442).  Or the Maine Guide Association listings at http://www.maineguides.org/company.html Good luck! Stan — Thanks for the report.  I am going to be in that area next week — in Molunkus, ME <whereever that is!).  I’m a beginning fly fisherman, but I’m making the trip with a bunch of spin fisherman.  Did you notice if there were any guide services in the area?  Did you flyfish for bass at all?? Thanks again, Craig

Response:

I spent the last week in the beautiful country just outside Baxter State Park in north central Maine.  If you are not interested in details, here’s the summary:  weather was ideal, water temps in the rivers and ponds was between 60 and 64 degrees F, a 6 inch native landlocked salmon on a dry fly is much more fun than a 12" stocked rainbow, moose are really dumb looking. WEATHER The usual daily high was just over 70 F.  High puffy clouds in a perfect blue sky.  The wind would not pick up until 9AM and would stop by 8:30 PM. During the day the wind was pretty constant making canoeing very difficult on the bigger lakes – very big whitecaps were common.  We had one rainy day on Wednesday but the steady rain didn’t start until mid afternoon. HATCHES Spring was cold and rainy so the hatches are at least a week later than normal. Caddis, caddis, caddis.  There was virtually nothing going on top on the ponds or the South Branch Penobscot in the mornings.  A few Hendricksons and the occasional caddis.  Very few mayflies.  We saw lots of black caddis (body and wings) around the ponds but very few in the Penobscot.  Those were usually light tan wings with a brownish-gray body.  One night I pulled a small yellow stonefly out of the air but we didn’t see any on the water.  We picked up salmon on almost every kind of caddis dry we had regardless of body color, although a light tan wing and light brown body seemed to work best.  My best fly was a tan foam bodied elk hair caddis with a bleached elk wing and a cdc underwing.  Size 12-14.  The nightly caddis hatch on the Penobscot was amazing – the adults were migrating up river in a continuous stream.  Looking up it looked like a snowstorm.  On the roads there were so many caddis bodies they were kicking up like dust.  Awesome.  And the salmon fishing was awesome because of that. We saw a few caddis on Nesowadnehunk Lake but also the beginning of the big yellow mayfly hatch (size 6, maybe a kind of hexagenia).  That hatch should peak next week.  The brookies were suckers for any big yellow fly. SCENERY World class beauty.  The mountains of Baxter are always in the background wherever you go.  We saw gorgeous sunsets lighting up Katahdin from Nesowadnehunk.  The Penobscot is probably the most scenic river I’ve ever fished. FISH The area is noted for landlocked salmon and brookies.  Not the giant brookies like in the Rapid River, but the pond brookies go up to 18 inches. We mostly saw brookies in the 6-10 inch range.  There are also togue in the bigger lakes (lake trout, we didn’t fish for them), and splake (a sterile brookie/togue hybrid) in the ponds.  My friends caught a couple of splake about 19 inches on trolled wooly buggers in the pond we camped on.  The big story is the landlocked salmon (people call them landlocks or just salmon). The Penobscot in that area is a tail water fishery below the Ripogenus Dam. The big salmon were hard to find last week – we saw a couple in the 16 inch range, one 18 and one 20.  Most were little guys in the 10-12 inch range and a lot in the 6-8 inch range.  They were loving elk hair caddis all week even in the morning when nothing was coming off.  We had a little action on caddis larva and emergers in the daytime.  In general the fishing was fair until about 10AM and then it pretty much shut off until the nightly hatch started at about 7PM.  The nightly caddis hatches were awesome.  There were salmon rising all over the river in every area we fished.  The area was pretty busy but we didn’t have trouble finding fishable stretches where there were no other people. WILDLIFE Moose everywhere and lots of snowshoe hares.  We had one big bull moose who refused to get off the road.  We had the Jeep within 10 feet of him and he just wouldn’t give us room.  After about 15 minutes he decided we were boring and loped off into the woods.  We saw a couple of eagles and an osprey, a black backed woodpecker, loons, mergansers, and one cormorant.  I found fresh bear tracks along the river one morning but we didn’t spot any bears.  Found coyote tracks and scat at one lake. ON THE WATER I tried float tubing for the first time on this trip.  I will remember to check for wader leaks the next time.  I had a pinhole leak in the butt of my waders from resting on a rock earlier in the day and within an hour I was floating around with a gallon of water down each leg.  But it as fun, and it certainly is easier to stay put than in a canoe. I also tried fishing from a kayak on this trip.  My friend Steve had brought his Wilderness Systems Pungo and I really liked it.  It was plenty big enough for this big guy and it handled great.  I was able to cruise effortlessly on some big lakes in a  good wind.  Very comfortable, but I would want to insulate the floor the next time – the water was cold.  I am definitely shopping for a fishing kayak before I get a float tube. Three of us took one morning off from fishing to paddle the Lobster River into Lobster Lake, purportedly the ‘most beautiful lake in Maine’.  The ‘river’ is a deep wide flat water – it flows in and out of Lobster Lake depending on the level of the Penobscot.  The day we went it seemed not to be flowing at all.  Two of us were in my cruising canoe and Steve was in the Pungo.  He paddled probably 25% faster than us – I was very impressed.  The river is gorgeous and has lots of waterfowl to watch.  Lots of moose, including a cow with twin calves that just watched us paddle through.  The moose calves were a lot lighter than the adults – a light tan, like a white tail deer. Lobster Lake has sandy beaches which is rare in Maine.  We paddled out to a long beach with a 90 foot long white pine we could use as a bench.  Even the driftwood in Maine is special!  Spent about an hour soaking in the sunshine just digging the view.  Mount Katahdin was lit up to the east and Mount Kisco was to the south.  You could walk out about 100 yards and only be hip deep – a great swimming beach for kids.  We were the only people on the lake.  Lots of animal signs on the beach including deer, moose, coyote and raccoon tracks. BUGS Like the hatches, the blackflies were delayed this year.  every time the wind stopped they were on us.  The parking lot at Kokadjo on the Roach River was the worst.  We didn’t get many bites though – they were a bit sluggish. The mosquitoes were out in force every morning and in the evenings. No-see-ums were out all the time.  We didn’t have much trouble out on the water, but we had to really hustle getting geared up. SUMMARY We already booked our cabin for next year. –Stan

Response:

Question:

I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

Response:

I caught one last week with a Shakespear floating line rig. I am sorry to say that the sucker wiggled away when he paddled backwards and I wasn’t expecting it. Chuck Creekmore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

Response:

Paul An excellent boat for fly fishing would be a Pungo made by Wilderness Systems.  This is actually a recreational kayak but is real stable and many fly fisherman swear by them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

Response:

Paul, Check out Mohawk canoes – the Solo model looks great to me. Also – the Old Town Pack may work for you – perhps it may be more stable for fly fishing than the Mohawk Solo. I haven’t paddled either, though am trying to, and considering one of them for purchase. Good luck!! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

Response:

Try a Mohawk 14′ Challenger, lts a good boat to fish out of and you can even do some whitewater in it. I got one and I like it.

Response:

Sawyer makes a nice 13′ solo boat that would work well.  They make it in several layups.  The least expensive layup is the Solo 13 which is the heaviest layup at 46 pounds but is the cheapest listing at $575.  The same boat in kevlar or a lighter fiberglass layup is called the Classic.  I own a Solo 13.  It is a nice paddling solo.  It was designed by the same guy that designed the Wildfire/Flashfire and Starfire for Bell.  The Bell boats are beautiful but more expensive.  The Flashfire looks to be a refined Solo 13 that has been designed for a little more experienced paddler and would have a little higher performance with the sacrafice of a little of the initial stability.

Response:

Question:

I have fished with many Orvis endorsed guides and guides who weren’t Orvis endorsed and I will take the Orvis guides any day. Not only did I have a better time and was treated better but I also was well fed.  I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t like slob guides and ones with attitudes.  One comes to mind with an attitude and that was Charlie Weaver at gates Ausable Lodge.  I don’t like a guide or anyone else telling me I suck at fly fishing or anything else for that matter. Iv’e been at this for to many years and have caught more trout than I can even hope to remember.  I have fished with Crystal Creek Guides ,Johnson’s Guides,Grey drake lodge and on and on.  Stick with the Orvis Guides and at least if something is not up to snuff you can call someone and voice your opinion with other guides you might as well spit in the wind. ilkie my guides to be well groomed and not smell like an old goat.

Response:

Good fly fishermen don’t need guides, aren’t too concerned about the food, and usually don’t smell so sweet. Ernie Harrison

Response:

Ernie, I have to take exception to your post. I too have fished with guides and without them, and if you are going to new water and have limited vacation time, the cost of a good guide is well worth the money. And when you are paying good money, you have a right to good, professional treatment. Having said that, the challenge of learning your ‘home water’  is a lifelong occupation best shared with a friend or loved one, not a guide. Ray FlyFisherRay

Response:

Good fly fishermen don’t need guides, aren’t too concerned about the food, and usually don’t smell so sweet. Ernie Harrison

Go out on the saltwater flats and pole your butt around all day and then say you don’t need a guide. It’s for sure you won’t smell too sweet<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Ernie, I have to take exception to your post. I too have fished with guides and without them, and if you are going to new water and have limited vacation time, the cost of a good guide is well worth the money. FlyFisherRay

I did not say a guide is not worth the money or should not be professional.  I personally enjoy the challenge of finding out what works on new waters by myself.  Floating down a river with a guide who tells me what and where to cast is not my idea of fun.  I do not have to catch a lot of big to enjoy myself.   Ernie Harrison  

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ? One can only hope. TimW

Amen to that.  I’m ready to pounce on all that barely used second-hand gear that will undoubtedly flood the classifieds if such an ebb occurs. Brett

Response:

Here is a forwarded response for wondering readers: To: Dave Richards Dave: A copy of your note about the Federation’s troubles was forwarded to me tonight, and I thought your questions deserved an answer. The simple answers are: — Yes, the Federation has financial problems. Who doesn’t? — Yes, membership is down. But that can be remedied. — No, we’re not even close to shutting down. Frankly, I see too many opportunities to even think about closing shop. I stepped in as president in August, not because I have any wish to preside over the Federation’s demise, but because there are so many things I want to do. And I intend to be quite aggressive in doing them. A few examples: — The FFF Clubwire. Quite an innovative news service intended to help club and council newsletter editors, who in the past have had to beg, borrow, steal material to fill their pages. Now, they have routine access to information from the Federation about education activities, conservation issues, Federation news and fly-fishing in general. This free service is available by E-mail to every FFF chapter and has been getting enthusiastic response since its introduction this past summer. — The Flyfisher is being redesigned to deliver a more-targeted message to our members. You’ll see the first changes in this upcoming issue. — You mentioned the upcoming increase in dues, but you’ve been given misleading information about the reason. I asked the board of directors in August to approve the increase, not to bail out our finances, but to allow the national office to begin paying money back to the councils. Simply put, national will rebate $5 back to the councils for every member they add as off Aug. 1, 1996. I don’t deny that I hope such a program will inspire the councils to work harder to generate more members, but the reasons go beyond that. The councils carry a great deal of responsibility and do a lot of the Federation’s work, and it’s about time they started getting some financial support from national. — In the past year or so, we’ve distributed something like $20,000-$25,000 in free rods and lines for clubs to use in their education programs. Perhaps you’re more interested in conservation matters. If so, it’s that much more important to keep the Federation around. We were instrumental in having the National Marine Fisheries Service invoke the Endangered Species Act in protecting West Coast steelhead this year; we sponsored the first symposium ever on saving searun cutthroat trout; we have been active in banning gill nets along the Gulf of Mexico; we joined a coalition to get the Magnuson Act reauthorized by Congress; we are sponsors of next year’s Wild Trout symposium; we are the experts on the relicensing of hydro dams and have been especially effective with this issue in the Great Lakes area; and we were an important voice in opposing the New World Mine adjacent to Yellowstone Park. And in a couple weeks, we’re hosting the only public forum (via our newly opened International Fly Fishing Center) designed to explain what’s going on with the damaged spring creeks near Livingston, Mont. We won’t take sides in this difficult situation, but we think it’s important that everyone have the chance to hear all the arguments. Please accept my apologies if I’m pummeling you with stuff. But I’m at work, it’s late and I’m trying to go home. If you still need answers, let me know. I’m happy to give them. In the meantime, let me assure you that the problems we face can and will be handled, and you’re going to see a much more active Federation than you might have otherwise expected. And pardon me if I revert to one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes: The news of our death is much exaggerated. Regards, Tom Jindra

Response:

I received a fairly disturbing communique recently from the head of the local chapter of the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I’m not sure when it arrived since I was out of town for a couple of weeks.  It could be old news, although I doubt it. The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered.  In that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running the show.  It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy.  Then there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should be saved. Are there any FFF members out there with more info?  Please email me directly. Dave Richards

Response:

[some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership.

Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ?   One can only hope. TimW

Response:

: The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any : details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what : is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is : doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in : membership. Taxes? : I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly : fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered.  In : that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from : a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running : the show.  It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. Mmmmm, attorney-types, financial institutions, fiscal incompetence, and "yahoos" running the show. : I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people : responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do : no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy.  Then : there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should : be saved. I think ‘Merica is worth saving! : Are there any FFF members out there with more info?  Please email me : directly. : Dave Richards Not to muddy up Dave’s request for info, but reading his post looks like a study in current politics. It REALLY stood out. You’re on to something Dave. Remove all the incompetent leeches and start over. Bill You’re either for Perot-type changes or YOU are the problem.

Response:

Question:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? The other part of the subject line refers to a book I just read.  The author is a guy named Lietz that used to produce T.V. commercials before becoming an author and moving to a small town in Vermont.  He has written two mysteries that are centered around a Flyfishing resort in Vermont.   "Dying To Flyfish" is both a good mystery and a pretty good book about flyfishing as well.  Check it out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here.

He does make an interesting suggestion, that is, the use of special user permits.  In order to even enter many wilderness areas a "wilderness permit" must be aquired (though I’ve yet to see any enforcement of this personally).  One of the goals is to be able to track someone down if they somehow got lost or injured but in many places they also serve as a quota system.  Wouldn’t the use of a similar quota system, and enforcing it, such that a limited number of anglers are allowed on wild streams (along with enforced slot limits) result in a similar reduction of the impact on these resources? — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here. Randy

Response:

John,  THE largest hatch on the Kill’ at this time of year is the Grumman hatch …sorry to say, the Mettawee is nice.  Early & late is correct for the Battenkill, Isonychias, Tricos, BW Olives….but there is one reason NOT to pass up the Kill’ ..the browns can be literally Anywhere..IN the current, OUT of the current..in some dark secluded pocket(many on the stream…) the river is loaded with pockets/undercut banks..although not readily noticeable at first.  The Battenkill in Vermont is more of a stream…and slowly becomes more of a river once in NY, so you also have somewhat of a choice of what size water you want to fish. steve d.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish.

Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

Response:

The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. cds

Response:

writes: It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and

terrestials? John, The obvious place is the Battenkill, probably the most famous place to fish in the NE.  Check out the orvis store there, they also have a fly-fishing/cathrelease only area that probably has some good fishing. THe folks there are quite nice and helpful. Mac

Response:

John, I would avoid the Battenkill – overrated. Try the Mettawee.  White Mayflies, Caddis and caddis pupa.  Terrestrials are still a viable option.  I do not mean to get down on the Battenkill, but unless you are there very early or very late it will be a parade of canoes and float tubes. There are some good "holes" but you would need a guide.  I do not say this because I am a guide because I do not guide the Battenkill.  I say it because I have fished the Battenkill extensively in the past.  Enjoy your trip and let me know if you need more help. Cheers, James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service LIC#2298 Underhill, VT

Response:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north

of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too. jg

Response:

REMEMBER Eddie Murphy ! Don’t Get MURPHED ! Go Fishing !!! TimW

Response:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too.

Okay, but what size?  Size *is* important in this case. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Question:

[some deleted] But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book.

I sense and share your frustration Mike.  Hang tough and keep up the good work. TimW

Response:

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year.

That is definitely a point we have to keep in mind. The message that started this thread made all sorts of dire pronouncements that any artificial material would be prohibited in fishing. As several people pointed out, that pretty much eliminates steel hooks, synthetic yarn, nylon monofilament leaders and much of what we use to fish with. It’s also the exact opposite of what was really being proposed. Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations. The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

Response:

snip The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies.

snip I’m not sure I understand the concept of "unfair advantage" when it comes to fishing.  The first thing that came to mind was some fly fishermen being upset about bait working better (I know that’s not what you meant Michael). Ross Wilson

Response:

Mike, I think there’s no doubt that a 3-inch Power Tube is an "artificial" under the new regulations. If it were less than 1.5 inches it would not be an artificial. After thinking more about your posts, however, I guess I’ve come around to your view that the new regs won’t cover a variety of possible situations, especially ones where there is scented material made part of a lure or fly over 1.5 inches long. Best wishes.  Jeff

Response:

Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations.

Except the worm fishermen doesn’t lobby, pressure, or persuade those that we pay the big bucks to exclude the flyfishermen from their preferred methods of enjoyment. respectfully, Mike Miller

Response:

if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry regards, Mike

Response:

Ok Jeff, so answer this question please, Can you or can you not fish with a 3" BERKLEY POWER TUBE? regards, Mike

Response:

if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry

Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year. Spinney Mountain Res. was the focus of much of the debate.  As you probably know Spinney is managed as "Gold Medal" Water with artificial  fly & lure only tackle restrictions and a one fish over 20" bag limit and the canyon  recently had Gold Medal regulations extended to the dam. My reference to purists, elitists, attitudes comes from experience fishing these waters and a witness to the debates over the issue at the commission meetings. On opening day 1995 at Spinney, there was a gentlemen fishing with power eggs. He had brought along the lawn chair and 4 young children. This guy caught about 6 trout that day on his chartreuse colored power eggs allowing each of the kids an opportunity to bring one in. He kept one and as far as I could tell no  harm came to the fish he released. But this guy came under heavy and constant critizism from the crowd (who were primarily fishless) because in their *holier than thou minds* he was a scondrel for using such a bait (although technically he was not breaking any laws.) Now, I will not dispute the fact that PASSIVELY fishing such a bait will probably kill alot of fish that by law have to be released. But at Spinney I have witnessed many a fine fish played to exhaustion, kept out of the water for extreme periods of time, (for the picture ceremony)  dropped on the rocks a couple of times, drug along the bank in the sand, and kicked back into the water because it was only 19 7/8" long. But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions.

I was surprised (not pleasantly) to notice that Mike Miller was the only one of the many who commented on this who seemed to have actually read the regulation. Most others assumed that what Paul had "just heard" was the gospel truth, then proceeded to denigrate the DOW for being so asinine. It is pretty obvious that very few contemporary fishing flies could be tied without using artificial or synthetic materials. Even rayon thread would be prohibited by such a regulation. Besides, it would be virtually unenforceable and bad for public relations. To prohibit artificial material from an artificial lure such as a fly is counter to the whole idea behind bait regulations. They generally seek to limit the use of live bait and artificial substances which simulate live bait (such as power bait, etc.). It would not make sense for anyone to prohibit the use of artificial materials in an artificial lure. People would have to start carving their bass plugs out of wood again. My point is, on the face of it, this "report" of what Paul had "heard" is not credible and needs to be checked out before we go griping about what stupidity the DOW is currently engaged in. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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J Let’s not forget that what they are *trying* to do is to find a J definition that excludes powerbait and its related "scented lure" J products. A good point.  Trying is the operative word here and sloppy legislation does not a good bill make.  Having lived in Denver for two years, I applaud setting waters aside for bait (power bait, although synthetic, is still bait IMHO) and artificial approaches. Heck, I _enjoy_ bait fishing once or twice a year for stockies. As a lifelong redneck I have drown my share of worms and crickets and defend anyone’s right to do so. It is up to the folks at wildlife to make sure that catch and keep does not endanger wild fish. Well, there’s my opinion anyway. But thanks for your post!      Trey Monroe

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For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish.

A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, peacock, and tan thorax regions?

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: A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator : has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, : how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, : peacock, and tan thorax regions? For me, they haven’t been nearly as effective as the orange color.  And I’m not certain the color triggers anything near a salmon egg… perhaps it looks like a big eye.  My point is that there are better imitations of the things you mention, but the Stimmy works well, often better. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

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Someone who has the new regulations, please read them and tell me if a 1.6 inch artificial Power Worm is artificial under the new regulation. My reading suggests that they are to be considered "artificial"

This issue arose at Spinney Mountain on opening day 1996, several individuals were using 3" Berkley Power Tubes. They looked identical  to other tube jigs (i.e. gitizits). The State Parks law enforcement officer  explained to me that according to his instructions they were lega, stating they were over 1 1/2". Also a DOW officer checked these fishermen and did not issue a citation or stop them from being used.   However, I contacted the DOW on this issue and at least one official said "no way, they cannot be used and that all  power bait is illegal. " As I stated in a previous post, except for obvious infractions (power eggs)  this law will be un-enforcable. Even the DOW is confused. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

No Colorado didn’t. I think I’ve heard that F&W is discussing not allowing power bait and other non-natural baits to be fished in the artificals only waters.

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Know any suppliers of barbless *bone* hooks?? — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not : use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, : it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Interesting, and really raises some issues.  For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as  power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions. It says something like anything less than 1 1/2 inches long cannot be made out of *plastic* or scented material. The question that has come up is what if it is over  1 1/2 inches long  (Berkley Power Tubes for example) or if  it is under 1 1/2inches does this exclude *foam* or even plastic tube jigs (unscented)? And can you add scent to a fly or lure less than 1 1/2 "? regards, Mike Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked. Don Burns

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Oh Yeah! Another reason to simply quit ffing and take up something else (billiards comes immediately to mind….) With all the problems facing the resource, and the sport in general, now the gov is picking at minutea (sp?). The saddest part is that an early and powerful proponent of synth materials for flies, John Betts, lives in Denver. If there is some percieved ecological threat with these materials why didn’t they look at those GD’d foam bobbers (strike indicators) that litter our streams too! Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked.

Good Point <G!  Sounds like our politicians are doing their best to screw everything up as usual.  Like with the Rimm Report! </chaz (not Sue)

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P I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not P use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, P it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Hmm, if it isn’t or hasn’t been alive and uses only sight attraction, not smell to attract fish, and you can cast it with a fly rod, that’s close enough to a fly for me. Besides, if this passes, will enforcement be forced to looking through people’s fly boxes to make sure that there is no crystal flash? What about nylon thread, rayon floss, or heavens to gimbles, micro fibbets tailing! Sounds like missplaced emphasis IMHO.      Trey Monroe

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Power Bait on the frying pan river…? Lucky Lou’s…? Getcha thumped…that’s fer sure… In practice, there is a VERY fine line (no pun intended) between a Glo-Bug and a Lucky Lou.  Or a Pittendrigh foam after a little fish slime and power bait.  Or a san Juan worm and a red wriggler.  It’s all in our heads man, that one is somehow better then the other…isn’t it ?   What is the difference between a Kastmaster and a Zonker ? TimW (In case you think that I miss the point….) I have retrieved slimy GloBugs from the gills and gullets of bleeding trout as deeply as shore chucked pautzkees. I have had wooly worms and buggers kill fish.  I have sent small trout flying into the bushes on a #14 adams on an ‘overzealous strike’.  Fish die man no matter WHAT you hook ‘em on…

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Question:

A while back I saw some info on the TMA on the Housatonic in Northern CT. including a phone number for latest info.  I hope to have a chance to fish there Sept. 10 and 11.  Any info and that phone number would be appreciated. Thanks. Tom G.

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To answer a previous inquiry, for information about fly fishing in the trout management area of the Housatonic River in northwestern Connecticut, try calling the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop in Cornwall, Connecticut at 203-672-6064.  Good luck! Mark Melnick Stamford, Connecticut, USA

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To answer a previous inquiry, for information about fly fishing in the trout management area of the Housatonic River in northwestern Connecticut, try calling the Housatonic Meadows Fly Shop in Cornwall, Connecticut at 203-672-6064.  Good luck! Mark Melnick Stamford, Connecticut, USA

The owner of the HMFS is Phil .. Phil pointed out a nice spot for us this spring, and we ended up the day with a few nice smallmouth and a 16" rainbow, plus watched others get some nice ones. you can also look at the CT fishing page http://metro.turnpike.net/J/jfagan/index.html

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A while back I saw some info on the TMA on the Housatonic in Northern CT. including a phone number for latest info.  I hope to have a chance to fish there Sept. 10 and 11.  Any info and that phone number would be appreciated.

The best source is the Housatonic Fly Fishermen’s Association’s recording at 203 248-8616.  However, unless we get some good rain in the next week, you really should stay off the Housie:  water levels are too low and the water temperature is too hot, with the result that the fish get overstressed when caught and have a poor likelihood of survival even with the most caring resuscitation.  

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(203) 248-8616

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Haven’t been to river but my guess is it’s unfishable due to drought.Fish move to mouths of cold feeder creeks which are closed to fishing. Anyway, info number is 203 248 8616. Better bet is Farmington River from Riverton downstream to New Hartford. Water remains cold ’cause it’s dam-fed. Info number 860  738 7327. Brian Matthews

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Haven’t been to river but my guess is it’s unfishable due to drought.

I drove down Rte 7 along the TMA today, Saturday, 9/3, and stopped at a few places to look at the water.  I have never seen it so low; barely a trickle. Rocks I’d never seen before were fully exposed.  A couple of jerks were ffing in the Church Pool, but there seemed little risk that they’d catch anything.  Otherwise I think I would have jumped in and splashed around just to put down any trout that might have been thinking of lunch. This river should not be fished until after we’ve had some rain and cooler weather.

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Question:

I guess little things in life please me; last weekend while tying some flies with a friend, his father showed us the trick of how to tie the head of a Muddler Minnow. I had always marvelled at these seemingly intricate flies and wondered "How in the world do you tie this?".

Pete,      Cool, huh?  As Scott indicates in response to this same posting, spinning deerhair is a basic technique that’s been around a long time. You can also spin other materials such as wool (woolhead sculpins) tow yarn (glow bugs) or any hollow animal hair.      Back in high school I reluctantly began tying commercially for local fly shops and a large mailorder firm.  I tried to stick mostly to custom tying because it didn’t get as boring (I would tie dozens of a pattern and color rather than grosses) and I made better money. Excellent spending (fishing) money for a teen by the way.  Anyway, I tied tons of muddlers.  Popular fly.  To form the head on a muddler you shouldn’t need to spin more than one clump of hair.  First, always use a heavier than normal thread when spinning hair.  Cut a suitable sized clump and stack the tips (even the hair tips).  These tips will form your muddler’s collar.  Make two loose wraps of thread around the hair and hook with the tips of the hair positioned to form the collar (usually about half way down the hook shank).  Begin to tighten your thread to flare the hair and wrap through the flared deerhair. Tie off and trim the flared butt ends and some of the tip ends of the deerhair.  The muddler should take less than 5 minutes to tie plus it’s a great fly.  I think you’ll find this method for muddler heads quicker, easier, and neater.  Have fun tying! John

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I guess little things in life please me; last weekend while tying some flies with a friend, his father showed us the trick of how to tie the head of a Muddler Minnow. I had always marvelled at these seemingly intricate flies and wondered "How in the world do you tie this?". The trick is that you take deer hair and wrap it to the hook near the head, splitting the length of the hair in 2.  As you let go of the deer hair, it fans out in a perpendicular fashion to the hook.  After wrapping several bunches of deer hair to the hook, the previous bunches get pushed backwards.  Then you just trim away the bulk of the dear head and sculpt the head of the muddler minnow. Its quite simple !  What a revelation!  I tied my 1st muddler and it looked AWESOME.                                                         pete                                                                            |_    

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Its quite simple !  What a revelation!  I tied my 1st muddler and it looked AWESOME.

The "trick" you describe is pretty much standard practice (its called hair spinning and is described in many fly tying books).. You did say in your original message that you were just trimming the hair to shape the head..  After you trim, you can use a match (or lighter if youre careful) to further refine the head’s shape.. Scott —             |                UUCP: ..!uunet!plains!wilken       |               | WWW page -= http://www.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu/~wilken |

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Question:

Aren’t they the ones that eat their own young?

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Not only will they eat their young they will also take a #28 Adams on 8X …. give it a try…. Thats how I get over cabin fever.  by the way make sure to use barbless hooks, guppies don’t seem to recover well from

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Well, I was down in Louisianna and stopped off on the side of the road at a creek.  Little minnows were swimming around on the surface.  I had some #14 hooks and some little pieces of worm.  The water was about 6 feet down from where my gf and I were standing.  We let our lines down and the minnows would grab the worm, not able to get the hook in their mouth.   They would hold onto it just enough that you could sling them out of the water.  We flicked them high enough that they went flying in the air and we would catch them in our hands.  We kept them in a bucket for some catfishing that night.  They did not seem to be harmed too much by their sudden flights into the air.  Guess its another way to catch fish.

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