Question:

As a person from a nation of 50,000,000 sheep… i have always thought of a Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can screw all the COWS you want.  I want the good stuff (skinny, young, good looking and easy). <bseg — Warren (poonnanny connoisseur) A mohair goat? What is it with you guys and your goats?  Some kind of eastern thing? — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Hold that thought Warren, it will bring you a lifetime of fun. It seems to work for several people I have met on ROFF and in life. Figured what the hell, I’ll give it a try.

I got carded buying a couple bottles of wine day before yesterday. Wolfgang it’s kind of a strange world out there.

Response:

@mcw.edu: Hold that thought Warren, it will bring you a lifetime of fun. It seems to work for several people I have met on ROFF and in life. Figured what the hell, I’ll give it a try. I got carded buying a couple bottles of wine day before yesterday. Wolfgang it’s kind of a strange world out there.

The guy behind the counter probably just wanted your name and address so he could consult with you on his major wine purchases Scott

Response:

The guy behind the counter probably just wanted your name and address so he

could consult with you on his major wine purchases <   Nah, probably just wanted to hit on him.  <g   Harry last time I got carded I was 31

Response:

The guy behind the counter probably just wanted your name and address so he could consult with you on his major wine purchases <   Nah, probably just wanted to hit on him.  <g   Harry last time I got carded I was 31

I was 28. My wife was 30. G.C.

Response:

last time I got carded I was 31

One of the metro Atlanta counties has a law that requires everyone to show ID to purchase alcohol. Come on down if you want to get carded again. <g — Charlie…

Response:

<< One of the metro Atlanta counties has a law that requires everyone to show ID to purchase alcohol. Come on down if you want to get carded again. <g   Interesting.  Damn sure ain’t the county the airport is in.   Harry   got drunk there once waitin for a flight to Little Rock

Response:

Wondering why George isnt posting to the newgroup..

His ISP finally wized up? Is he ok?

No. Never was. Anyone know whats up with him??

No. Couldn’t figure that out either. Thanks

HTH, Tim

Response:

George, is that you? –please remuv the ‘NOWAY2it’ from my email addy to email me–

Response:

He’s traveling andwon’t have access for a while. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Wondering why George isnt posting to the newgroup..Is he ok? Anyone know whats up with him?? Thanks Jimmy

Response:

Old fly fisherman don’t die, they just smell that way. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Wondering why George isnt posting to the newgroup..Is he ok? Anyone know whats up with him?? Thanks Jimmy

Response:

Old fly fisherman don’t die, they just smell that way.

Sure, that’s what all of you old farts say…… <bseg — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Old fly fisherman don’t die, they just smell that way.

Sure, that’s what all of you old farts say…… <bseg As opposed to you young studs, right Warren?   Harry old fart (ex young stud)

Response:

As opposed to you young studs, right Warren?  

Nah, I already passed the young stud mark.  I’m in that pre-40, getting older and knowing it while certain things don’t work as well as they used to, but trying to delay the transition for as long as I can stage.   — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

As opposed to you young studs, right Warren? Nah, I already passed the young stud mark.  I’m in that pre-40, getting older and knowing it while certain things don’t work as well as they used to, but trying to delay the transition for as long as I can stage.

If you discover this secret of staying forever young, as I have, you must *swear* not to tell the other roffians. As anyone who has met me can attest, I have discovered this secret and my Adonis-like, svelte profile and stunning good looks keep others wondering, "Just how does he manage to look that good and stay that fit?" Of course, this could be bullshit. — TL, Tim (everyone looks better over the Internet)

Response:

Old fly fisherman don’t die, they just smell that way. Sure, that’s what all of you old farts say…… <bseg As opposed to you young studs, right Warren?   Harry old fart (ex young stud)

…walk down the hill —- all the cows.

Response:

…walk down the hill —- all the cows.

You can screw all the COWS you want.  I want the good stuff (skinny, young, good looking and easy). <bseg — Warren (poonnanny connoisseur) change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As opposed to you young studs, right Warren? Nah, I already passed the young stud mark.  I’m in that pre-40, getting older and knowing it while certain things don’t work as well as they used to, but trying to delay the transition for as long as I can stage. If you discover this secret of staying forever young, as I have, you must *swear* not to tell the other roffians. As anyone who has met me can attest, I have discovered this secret and my Adonis-like, svelte profile and stunning good looks keep others wondering, "Just how does he manage to look that good and stay that fit?" Of course, this could be bullshit. — TL, Tim (everyone looks better over the Internet)

What bothers me at times is that I still get carded for buying a can of chew sometimes.  You only have to be 18 to buy chew and the people selling the chew are a lot younger than I, but for some reason they think I am the younger one!  WTF?!?!?!  I wish my body felt as young as I look….  Bone spurs in the neck, hands and lower arms that go numb, a freaking vertebrae that has decided to slip due to an old injury which can’t be put back in place by a freaking chiropractor (says it will take surgery or a life of pain to deal with).  Screw aging!  I have better things to do….. — Warren (who just wishes he could convince his BODY to follow along with his mentality/mental outlook, but is still trying!) change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

You can screw all the COWS you want.  I want the good stuff (skinny, young, good looking and easy). <bseg — Warren (poonnanny connoisseur)

A mohair goat? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

You can screw all the COWS you want.  I want the good stuff (skinny, young, good looking and easy). <bseg — Warren (poonnanny connoisseur) A mohair goat?

What is it with you guys and your goats?  Some kind of eastern thing? — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

  Screw aging!  I have better things to do…..

Hold that thought Warren, it will bring you a lifetime of fun. Chas

Response:

Hold that thought Warren, it will bring you a lifetime of fun.

It seems to work for several people I have met on ROFF and in life.   Figured what the hell, I’ll give it a try. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Hello Wondering why George isnt posting to the newgroup..Is he ok? Anyone know whats up with him?? Thanks Jimmy

Response:

Hello Wondering why HWMNBM isnt posting to the newgroup..Is he ok? Anyone know whats up with him?? Thanks Jimmy

Dammit, I suppose this will trigger another round of stupidity Flyfish – the stupidity line probably starts here

Response:

Hello Wondering why George isnt posting to the newgroup..Is he ok? Anyone know whats up with him??

Who knows?  More to the point, who cares? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week.

Response:

You missed all those NAACP folks picketing outside the Worldcom? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule?

Response:

O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Actually, my son got me up in Montana once and the trout were rising throughout the snow showers.  After the first bite, I didn’t notice the weather at all.  Heck, you are standing in 34 degree water all day anyhow! — regards,  RichG .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Question:

Got to go out for a few hours today. It was notable in the fact that of three folks fishing that little puddle of water I was the only one catching. Why? Well could it be due to the fact that I was FLY FISHING?!?! Heh.

(great trip report snipped) Michael – this confirms my experience that some interesting fishing can be found in the oddest places – we just need to be alert to the opportunity. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Michael – this confirms my experience that some interesting fishing can be found in the oddest places – we just need to be alert to the opportunity. Mark Faulkner

Too true! I know this one spot that looks alright and it right off of route 42 after the Walt Whitman Bridge just before the turn off for Deptford Mall. Right under one of the over passes. I think I am gonna try it this summer! — Michael Era

Question:

My friends, lend me your eyes. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail.

Definitely worth a try. George and Co. have never got under my skin (mind you I do see how they can), but I suspect a little tolerance and a big dose of common sense could see us get through. Like the trout we talk often about, we need to be more selective in the lures or baits that we take – and ignore the baits some Cheers JK

Response:

(snipped)

Dave, Add a clause that I am to have all of my deposit retuned in FULL! If you would please. I would like this corrected before moving on. HT

Response:

______  Not fair Mark.  Very undeserving, especially from someone that should be a fair minded attorney? sigh* MR. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default.

This would work if folks had learned anything from what happened in the past, but I don’t think that’s true in all cases. Forgetting the past is a dangerous thing, especially in this case which is in its’ umpteenth cycle in the little passion play called roff. My advice is to ignore the trolls but continue to be wary of the troller (the poetry could start again, you know<g). — Charlie…

Response:

What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust.

Sounds good to me. Will it work? Unlikely, but let’s give it a shot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Well said, Peter.  This is not a matter of anti-George or pro-George.  The guy has a screw loose, and as much as I enjoy picking on him occasionally it is not good for either of us.  Time to treat him like the meower. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper) Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Happy New Year David.  I forgive you. ; ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

<good suggestions snipped Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Best Regards, Dave Blackett aka bc. — Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt — Izaak Walton

Response:

Wayne,    Of course you are correct about this.  He changed his sign from Mr. G to Mr Gink just for this purpose.  He seems to be a firm believer in "there is no such thing as bad publicity".  I for one do not welcome George back to ROFF because I am  a believer in the saying "a leopard can’t change it’s spots".  It won’t be long until he reverts back to the old George that he wants everyone to forget.  I am placing him back on my filter and I hope the members of ROFF don’t repeat too many of his posts in their posts. Happy New Year Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. Wayne

Response:

[genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

holy shit tripper…whatever it is that induced this, can ya send me a shipment? i’ve a bunch of clients that need a dose (toke?) immediately! seriously though – nice thought and hope it works.   jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

(Well thought and balanced guidelines snipped) Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Amen and amen. However, I think it should only pertain to posts from George and his employees.  George might have influence but not control over others that have a financial interest in his products.  It is true that George could influenced other people that have a "financial interest" in his products to make an advertizing post.  However, it is also possible that the other person is acting independently.  If we then baroque Mr. G, we are in the wrong.  Maybe my suggestion is more long-suffering than yours, but I think it’s truly the most fair one.  Let’s give Mr. G. the benefit of the doubt when we can. Mr. G. will either hang or prove himself.  We just need to give him enough rope to tie a noose or pull himself ashore. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all.

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman

In the Big Picture(tm) you’re correct, Herman. But there are already Usenet guidelines that address the broader constructs for discussion groups under the Big 8 hierarchy. Clearly these guidelines have been ignored for some time in this case… This is not legislation that I’ve proposed, it’s a "serving suggestion" that addresses a specific concern in as gentle a fashion as possible while still providing some substance to chew on. Take it or leave it on its own merits. And thanks for your support. /daytripper

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused.

LOL! Ok, Mike, I appreciate your cooperation, if not enthusiastic support. "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible"

That’s ^^^^ profoundly appropriate. /daytripper (saving my dogma from being run over by my karma)

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

My friends, lend me your eyes.

<SNIP

Response:

My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

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Question:

I’m planning a familiy trip down to Islamorada this summer. Since I’m on a budget I can unfortunately only afford to hire a guide for one day. How good are the opportunities for doing some solo wade-flyfishing in the Islamorada area. Too vast and crowded? Tips are appreciated, Tor Larsen

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Spme State Parks w/ood access South of there

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Rook2, I was there last year and had a fine time fishing from the road side. If you head on out towards Key West not very far from Islamorada there’s a number road side areas you can fish where the boat cuts come close to shore. I pulled two fine bone fish out this way. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spme State Parks w/ood access South of there

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Question:

For your free brochure featuring the funniest in t-shirts,  E-mail the shirtguy for info.  Guaranteed to help you look better catching that whopper!!  Good Fishing.

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For your free brochure featuring the funniest in t-shirts,  E-mail the shirtguy for info.  Guaranteed to help you look better catching that whopper!!  Good Fishing.

This is not posted by the intelekchualy advanced, flyfishing supremo, humorous South African Bruce which you have all come to know and admire. (I realy crack myself up sometimes). I would never attempt to sell t-shirts via roff. Hell hath no fury as a flyfisherman spammed. Cheers Bruce….

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Question:

ANYBODY BEEN TO BELIZE?  WHERE’S A NICE RESORT CLOSE TO WHERE THE ACTION IS?

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ANYBODY BEEN TO BELIZE?  WHERE’S A NICE RESORT CLOSE TO WHERE THE ACTION IS?

You can go to Ambergris Cay and stay in the town of San Pedro. There are good flats guides there or you can stay at the El Pescador Lodge near by. This is mostly 20 to 100 pound tarpon  and lot of small/medium bones, plus other species. Another choice is to go out to Turneffe Island and stay at Turneffe Flat Lodge or Turneffe Island Lodge. This is very good bonefishing and some permit and tarpon. On the mainland near Belize city is the Belize River Lodge that has a good variety of fishing. The most popular times are spring (April/May/June) and fall (Oct/Nov). If you need any info/brochures on any of these places just call us @800/4000FLY. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I dunno what the numbers are, but it is my understanding that you are 3 times more likely to drown in Yellowstone then get eaten by a bear there. Have fun, TimW

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I dunno what the numbers are, but it is my understanding that you are 3 times more likely to drown in Yellowstone then get eaten by a bear there.

Also, if you are going to worry about the animals around here, *many* more people are gored by bison, often fatally, than get hurt by bears in Yellowstone.   Bear attacks in Yellowstone are extremely rare.  More people get kiled on the Gallatin Road driving to Yellowstone, you are more likely to die of a heart attack from working too hard carrying your float tube in a few miles, etc. It is worth taking the obvious precautions like raising your food cooler and cooking stuff up on a bear pole if you are camping on Shoshone Lake, but bear dangers are not high. Denbigh

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 I’m heading to Yellowstone in about 3 weeks. My partner wants to carry the  float tubes back to a couple of prime lakes, some with grayling. We’ll be  checking closely with the rangers, but I was wondering if any of you have  had any first hand experience there with bear sightings? It IS grizzly  country, after all…yikes! When my friend and his wife went there a few  years ago they WANTED to spot bears for photo ops, but never saw a one.

Although 2 to 5 bear attacks are experianced annually in Yellowstone, It is unlikely you will see a grizzly.  No firearms are allowed in the park. If you follow the recommended precautions with food, and a large enough group(making noise as your walking) you should be ok. you will more likely see alot of buffalo(respect them and keep your distance)

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I’ve heard that more people are attacked by moose each year than by bears.  In Yellowstone you are far more likely to be killed by a bisson than a bear.  Buy some spray if you want a bit of added security and wear a bell to prevent any close encounters.  Otherwise go have fun fishing, its an amazing place to catch trout.

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I saw a TV show on Alaska fly-fishing once where a fellow was into a large salmon for quite some time.  A Ranger came by and informed the gent he would have to leave the area temporarily as there was a grizzly bear coming.  The guy looked up to see the aforementioned grizzly a mere 100 yds upstream and coming his way.  He looked at his line, the end of which held the salmon of a lifetime, then looked back at the bear.  His hesitation caused the Ranger to again advise him of the gravity of the situation.  The man again looked longingly at his line and again at the closing bear.  The Ranger, becoming a tad more frantic in his demeanor, told the man more loudly and more forcefully that he should leave!  Once more the man struggled with his desire for the fish.  Finally, the Ranger unsheathed his knife and cut the anglers line, thus ending his inner turmoil.  Now THAT’S a true fly-fisher!!!

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No but I got chased and snapped at by a very angry swimmin cow moose while rafting near the headwaters to Earthquake Lake.  It was durin stonefly hatch and we think she had a calf in the willows. Only a paddle smack on the nose turned her away or she would have had the rubber raft.

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I’m heading to Yellowstone in about 3 weeks. My partner wants to carry the float tubes back to a couple of prime lakes, some with grayling. We’ll be checking closely with the rangers, but I was wondering if any of you have had any first hand experience there with bear sightings? It IS grizzly country, after all…yikes! When my friend and his wife went there a few years ago they WANTED to spot bears for photo ops, but never saw a one.

Don, You should check out the thread: bear repellent for Yellowstone   (38 long and counting) Does anyone have the stats for the number of bear attacks in North America or USA each year?  Im sure its not many considering the number of people that are constantly in bear country!   IMHO bears are not the horrible monsters most seem to preceive them as!  I planted trees for 5 months in several remote parts of Bristish Columbia one year.  (I was young and figured it was my last chance before hitting the real world) (I was right).  Bear encounters were very common.  Neither I or anyone else carried bells or anything like that. (all the foreman carried spray).  You were usually about a 1/4 mile from anyone else.  We never had a single problem that year! Usually the bears were more afraid of you than you of them, and took off.  At that time the company I worked for had not had a single attack in its 14 year history. I (and 3 others I was with) ran into a small griz in YNP last week. It really didnt seem to care that we were there and had obviously seen people before.  Yet, we keep hearing these stories of people treed in YNP by bears!?!  Maybe the bears in YNP get really irratated by all the people??  I know I did!  :)   (20 min traffic delays becuase there is a bear in view from the road) I will try to find the bear attack stats and post them.  In the meantime if you have some please post em! Enuff Rambling for Now, Jason

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I’m heading to Yellowstone in about 3 weeks. My partner wants to carry the float tubes back to a couple of prime lakes, some with grayling. We’ll be checking closely with the rangers, but I was wondering if any of you have had any first hand experience there with bear sightings? It IS grizzly country, after all…yikes! When my friend and his wife went there a few years ago they WANTED to spot bears for photo ops, but never saw a one.

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Question:

We’re planning a camping vacation in Minnesota — probably central Minnesota.  What’s the fly fishing potential in this state and where would it be best?  Can anyone help.  Never been in this area before.

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We’re planning a camping vacation in Minnesota — probably central Minnesota.  What’s the fly fishing potential in this state and where would it be best?  Can anyone help.  Never been in this area before.

If you’re willing to fish for sunfish you’re about to enter heaven. If you want trout you’d have to try SE Minnesota or Western Wisconsin.  When you say central Minnesota are you thinking of the St. Cloud area, or Little Falls area, or further north? I can give more details if you’ll limit your region a little more. In general Minnesota is full of many small lakes.  Most of these lakes hold good populations of sunfish,  crappie, some largemouth bass and usually Northern Pike.  I prefer the sunfish because they’re almost always active and put up quite a fight on light tackle (3 – 5 wt.)  The standard tackle for bass is 8 wt.  You need to cast a long ways and you have to be able to pull them out of the weeds.  I’ve never tried Northern on a fly but an 8 wt, sinking line, and a big, flashy fly should work well. John F. Close

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Question:

Have opportunity to vacation in Breckenridge, Colorado this August and wonder if I will be near any trout streams or rivers if I choose this place. Any info. on spots, guides, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks, DLowe

        there is a fly shop in dillon, near the blue river, which i think is called "the columbine" that was very helpful to my son and myself a couple years ago when we took an unguided shot at colorado trout.  i think they have a sister shop in frisco.  the blue, itself, was a great piece of water.         good luck                 a. wayne harrison

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The Mountain Angler in Breckenridge is a great shop.  Well stocked and the post a map on the wall with directions and driving times to most public places within 2 hours.  They also post a chalkboard with fishing conditions and flies that are working based upon feedback from client visits.  They also have a variety of guided trips to public and private waters.  They are art 311 Main St (in the mall) ph 303-453-4665, last number I have.  The Gold Medal Fly Shop in Silverthorn 303-478-8961, 1130 Blue River Pky, on the road to Kremmling on the north side of town is a great, funky type fly shop.  Look for a small house in the trees, you will probably drive by it the first time.  Good selection of flies and terminal gear, very helpful owner.  It is always helpful to support the business by buying a few flies (or a $500 rod!) for their free advice.   Great fishing in the area.  The Blue on the north side of Breckenridge is quick,  the area of the Blue below Dillon Dam in Silverthorn directly behind the Outlet Malls! is Gold Medal, and many other places within an hours’ drive are excellent is the water is down to normal levels.  Last year it was late before fishing was good.  Also, the COLORADO ANGLING GUIDE by Chuck Frothergill (spelling?) is a great book and well worth the $28.  Good luck, I will be there in July and again in August.

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Have opportunity to vacation in Breckenridge, Colorado this August and wonder if I will be near any trout streams or rivers if I choose this place. Any info. on spots, guides, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks, DLowe

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