Question:

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly. This topic in itself is a waste. tmc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you are are free with other people’

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? "they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, …

    No one does.  That was my point. …but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize.

    You have no idea what I "probably realize" — you’re guessing based on two sentences — and even if you were correct, it really doesn’t do anything to make the point, since the original "most people…" statement is dubious.  But please, go on. At least among long-time and frequent contributors.

    Care to qualify it any further? Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP..

    You cracked the code!

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? does it matter?

    Well if, for example, one fifth of one percent of the people in the conversation have a particular problem, how worked up should we expect the group to get about it?     As for people in other newsgroups with similar problems, my favorite was the guy on AOL who waged an endless argument about cross-posting. Apparently his wiz-bang software required him to download entire articles before he could see headers (or so he claimed,) and thereby be able to filter things out.  Thus he wanted people to stop posting about various topics on various groups because it was costing him too much money to download stuff he didn’t want to read.  I think he enjoyed arguing about it.

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American.

Wow. Get your hand off the trigger. Being considerate of people in the world that exists (really it does) outside the US is hardly being anti-American. I realize its very UN-American, but thats another story. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

Why? What does it matter? Does Rico get to decide that if its less than x percent then screw them? This is really going to come as a surprise to some people, all of them Americans. There are..gasp…you dont say!!….actually places in America where people have to pay for access time! There are also people who, for various reasons, dont have good connections or fast connections AND have to pay for  access too!

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Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there?

You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

If one leaves because of the cost of downloading back country topics, then you are better off backpacking than reading the usenet.  One certainly can’t afford that new goretex jacket. Lets be serious here.  If you can’t afford a few dollars to read some interersting topics (some more or less), then you have no reason to be backpacking.  Think about it!  Backpacking is NOT the least expensive hobby/sport.  Perhaps one needs to obtain a new hobby to make one happy. Unless you hike in blue jeans and a cotton shirt, the don’t be squaking. Oh yeah, if you aren’t smart enough to download the headers and topics, instead of full messages, then it is the law of Darwin. Geesh! tmc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? Geo.Cleveland

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

does it matter?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

it’s evidently an  issue for some that comes up regularly in some other ng’s I subscribe to that have  posters from all over the place.( trim posts etc) Of course I have no hard evidence  ;-p penny

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.

   Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

    And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

"they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize. At least among long-time and frequent contributors. Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP.. John Paul Minda Beckman Institute The University of Illinois 405 N. Mathews Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 333-2012 http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~minda

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. penny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai. He has a gorgeous blonde girlfriend(ive never seen so many stares in my direction thanks to walking with her on several occasions), a nice ride and an even nicer selection of fly rods. Perhaps you are jealous of that? He is a positive, hopeful person  and people seem to gravitate to him. He, like I also have the glorious choices of fishing in a still unspoiled setting, which is something you don’t have Mike. Perhaps if someone in Europe had spoken up and made noise a long time ago the fishing and habitat wouldnt be so poor now, and the choices so few.

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Musty Ass has spoken.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

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Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

Response:

Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

Response:

There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Response:

Question:

Hi RW,  you were mentioning the PT nymph and what it looked like.  I have a rather poor photo (somewhat out of focus)  that depicts the nymph, and I have put it on ABPF.

That’s a very buggy looking fly, Michael. Do you ever tie them flashback style, with a strand of Flashabou and some 5-minute epoxy? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hi RW,  you were mentioning the PT nymph and what it looked like.  I have a rather poor photo (somewhat out of focus)  that depicts the nymph, and I have put it on ABPF. That’s a very buggy looking fly, Michael. Do you ever tie them flashback style, with a strand of Flashabou and some 5-minute epoxy?

Yikes,  what is "flashback style"?  The fly in the pikkie is my mainstay of angling operations, and it fishes very effectively here in the UK and the river Cauvery  (Bangalore to Mysore plus tributaries)  in India  (much to my delight!!!)  This pattern is probably my most used fly.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi RW,  you were mentioning the PT nymph and what it looked like.  I have a rather poor photo (somewhat out of focus)  that depicts the nymph, and I have put it on ABPF. That’s a very buggy looking fly, Michael. Do you ever tie them flashback style, with a strand of Flashabou and some 5-minute epoxy? Yikes,  what is "flashback style"?  

Tie in a strand of pearl Flashabou before you tie in the wingcase. Then fold it over and tie it in over the finished wingcase. A drop of 5-minute epoxy on top of the thorax makes the fly more durable, which I believe is what you were after in the first place. The fly in the pikkie is my mainstay of angling operations, and it fishes very effectively here in the UK and the river Cauvery  (Bangalore to Mysore plus tributaries)  in India  (much to my delight!!!)  This pattern is probably my most used fly.

Now you’re getting all picky about making changes to your recipe! That was my advice, if you recall — if it works, stick with it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Do you ever tie them flashback style, with a strand of Flashabou and some 5-minute epoxy?

One thing I like to do is use peackock herl for the wingcase.  I pull over that several strands of very narrow Flashabou.  I think this is more subtle, yet at the same time reflects light in more directions.  Then I coat it with Flexament.  I think it looks cool.

Response:

Snipped. Today I fished with some PT nymphs that I had used a little dab of superglue to keep the wingcase firmly fastened down.  They did not look any different to the non glued ones,  but after a day’s angling with them I have to say that the addition of the glue has done wonders for the durability of the fly.  Today was very windy and at times too much for my 4 weight line.  One cast was blown onto the riverbank  (grrrr!), however, a bit of bad temper and cursing at the wind,  I persisted my casting. I found a nice run that has been deepened by the recent record flooding, and its trout have all been replaced by large grayling.  I caught 3 grayling between 1.25lb and 2lb in 40 feet of stream, and saw a lot more fish too ~ I have never seen so many large grayling on this river before.  Oddly enough, the grayling were not at all interested in the PT nymph, and I caught them on a  small black & peacock spider (size 16).  All the trout that I caught today (upto a lively 15oz fish) were on the PT nymph.  I only fished for half the day due to 1) the wind, and 2) nagging by the wife… Within a few weeks,  the mayflies (we call the largest of our ephemerids the mayfly  (Ephemera danica) as it hatches in late May.  The troutstream goes absolutely nuts for 2 weeks and the trout all gorge themselves something chronic).  That being said,  the fish were feasting well today, and the trout all had plump bellies.

Response:

There is a picture of a PTN with a fluo thorax at http://www.geocities.com/flyfishingguru/ptn.htm along with tying instructions etc if any of you are interested Chris http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flyfishingworld – E-mail group http://www.geocities.com/flyfishingguru – Main website

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snipped. Today I fished with some PT nymphs that I had used a little dab of superglue to keep the wingcase firmly fastened down.  They did not look any different to the non glued ones,  but after a day’s angling with them I have to say that the addition of the glue has done wonders for the durability of the fly.  Today was very windy and at times too much for my 4 weight line. One cast was blown onto the riverbank  (grrrr!), however, a bit of bad temper and cursing at the wind,  I persisted my casting. I found a nice run that has been deepened by the recent record flooding, and its trout have all been replaced by large grayling.  I caught 3 grayling between 1.25lb and 2lb in 40 feet of stream, and saw a lot more fish too ~ I have never seen so many large grayling on this river before.  Oddly enough, the grayling were not at all interested in the PT nymph, and I caught them on a  small black & peacock spider (size 16).  All the trout that I caught today (upto a lively 15oz fish) were on the PT nymph.  I only fished for half the day due to 1) the wind, and 2) nagging by the wife… Within a few weeks,  the mayflies (we call the largest of our ephemerids the mayfly  (Ephemera danica) as it hatches in late May.  The troutstream goes absolutely nuts for 2 weeks and the trout all gorge themselves something chronic).  That being said,  the fish were feasting well today, and the trout all had plump bellies.

Response:

Cheers Chris, I looked at the fly,  however, I must admit to being a bit of a traditional kindof flytier.  I am presently only using non-synthetic materials to tie my flies from;  I prefer furs, feathers & metals.   That being said, today I used some flies (PTN) that used glue as a reinforcement to the tying, so I suppose that I am a bit of a hypocrite in respect to non-synthetic materials – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a picture of a PTN with a fluo thorax at http://www.geocities.com/flyfishingguru/ptn.htm along with tying instructions etc if any of you are interested Chris http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flyfishingworld – E-mail group http://www.geocities.com/flyfishingguru – Main website Snipped. Today I fished with some PT nymphs that I had used a little dab of superglue to keep the wingcase firmly fastened down.  They did not look any different to the non glued ones,  but after a day’s angling with them I have to say that the addition of the glue has done wonders for the durability of the fly.  Today was very windy and at times too much for my 4 weight line. One cast was blown onto the riverbank  (grrrr!), however, a bit of bad temper and cursing at the wind,  I persisted my casting. I found a nice run that has been deepened by the recent record flooding, and its trout have all been replaced by large grayling.  I caught 3 grayling between 1.25lb and 2lb in 40 feet of stream, and saw a lot more fish too ~ I have never seen so many large grayling on this river before.  Oddly enough, the grayling were not at all interested in the PT nymph, and I caught them on a  small black & peacock spider (size 16).  All the trout that I caught today (upto a lively 15oz fish) were on the PT nymph.  I only fished for half the day due to 1) the wind, and 2) nagging by the wife… Within a few weeks,  the mayflies (we call the largest of our ephemerids the mayfly  (Ephemera danica) as it hatches in late May.  The troutstream goes absolutely nuts for 2 weeks and the trout all gorge themselves something chronic).  That being said,  the fish were feasting well today, and the trout all had plump bellies.

Response:

Cheers Chris, I looked at the fly,  however, I must admit to being a bit of a traditional kindof flytier.  I am presently only using non-synthetic materials to tie my flies from;  I prefer furs, feathers & metals.  

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and preferences, but I don’t understand the big difference between using manufactured materials like steel hooks and nylon thread, and "synthetic" materials like Flashabou and poly yarn. If it’s effective for tying flies I’ll use it. It may be unethical , but that’s the way I see it. In fact, I think it’s fun to use all sorts of unusual synthetic materials, especially those that aren’t made specifically for tying flies. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Planned to stop in McIntosh county Oklahoma and do a little family research on way to Henry"s Fork clave. My creek ancestor there suggested I bring my fishing pole–said it gets so hot there in July that when you catch a brim you just eat him off the fly! IJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers Chris, I looked at the fly,  however, I must admit to being a bit of a traditional kindof flytier.  I am presently only using non-synthetic materials to tie my flies from;  I prefer furs, feathers & metals. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and preferences, but I don’t understand the big difference between using manufactured materials like steel hooks and nylon thread, and "synthetic" materials like Flashabou and poly yarn. If it’s effective for tying flies I’ll use it. It may be unethical , but that’s the way I see it. In fact, I think it’s fun to use all sorts of unusual synthetic materials, especially those that aren’t made specifically for tying flies.

What you say is entirely true, and people should experiment with new materials and so on if they want to improve designs.  I am not a particularly innovative fly tyer; I have about a dozen mature patterns consisting of dry, wet & nymph (for troutstream fishing) that I more or less stick to.  I am also essentially lazy in nature, and because of this try to utilise just the minimum required  (another reason why I use PT & GRHE nymphs for the bulk of my angling).  Being lazy with fly tying means that I don’t really go out to get new materials; I have a big wooden box (that I inherited when its previous owner emigrated to Australia) that is crammed with all sorts of bits of fur / hair / capes / birdskins / loose feathers / wires / tinsels and so on.  I am more of an angler than a fly tyer, however that being said, I do tie up all of my flies that I use.  I probably need a new tying vice as mine (Indian cheapo) is getting to be a nuisance ~ I suppose that you get what you pay for. This season I have decided to get back into fishing the dry fly; over the last 7 years or so I have neglected to use the dryfly.  The last 2 trips (yesterday & a week before) I caught trout on a size 16 iron blue dun and really enjoyed the thrill of watching the fly bob down to where the fish was on the fin. I’m not at all bothered about what other people want to use,  but I personally prefer to use feather or fur over synthetic materials purely on a set-in-my-ways traditional kindof theme.  It is  ironic that I am probably younger than the average age of the participants in this NG and yet I am possibly more dogmatic in choice of fly tying materials than the average pundit! Regards, Mike.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What you say is entirely true, and people should experiment with new materials and so on if they want to improve designs.  I am not a particularly innovative fly tyer; I have about a dozen mature patterns consisting of dry, wet & nymph (for troutstream fishing) that I more or less stick to.  I am also essentially lazy in nature, and because of this try to utilise just the minimum required  (another reason why I use PT & GRHE nymphs for the bulk of my angling).   I am more of an angler than a fly tyer, however that being said, I do tie up all of my flies that I use.   I’m not at all bothered about what other people want to use,  but I personally prefer to use feather or fur over synthetic materials purely on a set-in-my-ways traditional kindof theme.  It is  ironic that I am probably younger than the average age of the participants in this NG and yet I am possibly more dogmatic in choice of fly tying materials than the average pundit!

Hum, I pictured you as a moderately old fart like me. I also prefer "natural" over synthetic. I think that a limited fly selection is what happens when you fish the same waters, or similar ones, very frequently. You find or develop some flies that are successful for you, you use them alot, you get good at presenting them and you have alot of confidence in them. When I travel to new waters, I usually tie up "local" patterns to suit but often  find myself having my best success on my "standards." That’s one of the things that has made me concentrate much more on a change in presentation over trying to find the "right" fly when I come across a difficult situation. Willi

Response:

What you say is entirely true, and people should experiment with new materials and so on if they want to improve designs.  I am not a particularly innovative fly tyer; I have about a dozen mature patterns consisting of dry, wet & nymph (for troutstream fishing) that I more or less stick to.  I am also essentially lazy in nature, and because of this try to utilise just the minimum required  (another reason why I use PT & GRHE nymphs for the bulk of my angling).   I am more of an angler than a fly

tyer, however that being said, I do tie up all of my flies that I use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not at all bothered about what other people want to use,  but I personally prefer to use feather or fur over synthetic materials purely on a set-in-my-ways traditional kindof theme.  It is  ironic that I am probably younger than the average age of the participants in this NG and yet I am possibly more dogmatic in choice of fly tying materials than the average pundit! Hum, I pictured you as a moderately old fart like me. I also prefer "natural" over synthetic. I think that a limited fly selection is what happens when you fish the same waters, or similar ones, very frequently. You find or develop some flies that are successful for you, you use them alot, you get good at presenting them and you have alot of confidence in them. When I travel to new waters, I usually tie up "local" patterns to suit but often  find myself having my best success on my "standards." That’s one of the things that has made me concentrate much more on a change in presentation over trying to find the "right" fly when I come across a difficult situation.

LOL,  I am a 30 year old fart, moderate just like you .  You are right about the firm fave flies that you carry with confidence,  I have my favourite flies alright:  my 1st 11 or 1st 15, these flies are my first choice in action on most waters (saltwaters excluded).  Confidence is pretty important in flyfishing and having a proven fly or series of flies helps maintain the keeness that is essentially kept bouyant by prior confidence.

Response:

Hum, I pictured you as a moderately old fart like me. LOL,  I am a 30 year old fart, moderate just like you .

I don’t think that’s the same thing that Willi described

Response:

Confidence is pretty important in flyfishing and having a proven fly or series of flies helps maintain the keeness that is essentially kept bouyant by prior confidence.

I suspect that the "confidence" effect has something to do with the effectiveness of fluorocarbon tippet. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hi RW,  you were mentioning the PT nymph and what it looked like.  I have a rather poor photo (somewhat out of focus)  that depicts the nymph, and I have put it on ABPF.

Response:

Question:

The previous posts on the RRR provided a great description of the weather, the river and the activity.  This was my first smallmouth fishing opportunity as well as my first clave. Until the clave, most of my fly fishing experience was limited to largemouth and bluegills in ponds, lakes, and slow moving rivers. The clave was an outstanding introduction to fishing for smallmouths.  It was also the first time I fished a river like the Rapp – and really learned to appreciate a wading staff. It was hot and there were a number of challenges, but it was also a great learning experience.  With some coaching from Wayne and Frank Reid, I caught my first smallies, had the opportunity to try out a float tube and a kayak, and to learn a lot about heat stress.  Special thanks to Allan Epps for his help with the kayak. Bottom line – I really enjoyed the chance to meet and fish with the other clave attendees, a great group.  Looking forward to the next time – maybe trout? Thanks Al Poklemba

Response:

Al,    Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.       Frank Reid

Response:

(nice TR snipped) Thanks Al Poklemba

Al, it was our pleasure to fish with such a gentleman.  I have some great small stream jaunts for Brookies in the SNP  or Mossy Creek for a spring creek experience, and the Jackson River for a big trout water experience.  Just let me know and we’ll hit the creeks! Wayne to fish is human…to release Divine!

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Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid

smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

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Hey Frank baby, what’s up with the Mr. G. intro? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al,   Glad you have you along.  That was the "newbie initiation" clave.  Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff.  Depending on your point of view, it will only get better.      Frank Reid smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all.  Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"

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Question:

Wonderful story – I felt like I was there.  Sometimes those "blown" trips are incredible.              Frank Reid Before you buy.

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I’ve been away from ROFF for a while (1450 messages worth it seems) as I’ve been out in Utah with the family. I won’t go into all of the gory fishing details–but I will share a couple of reports (in installments). Monday the 17th I had scheduled a float trip down the Snake River near Jackson, Wyoming. I arrived in Alpine the evening before to stay at a motel where I had scheduled to meet the guide. Earlier in the afternoon I had been running around on some grass with my girls and I *ran into a swingset* cutting open my knee. I put a bandage on it, tried to act composed, and headed for Alpine. By the time I got to Alpine, the knee was swollen badly and I could hardly get out of the car. I couldn’t bend the knee at all. I was worried about not being able to fish the next day, so I packed some ice on the knee for a while before heading to sleep. I awoke the next morning at 5:00 to the sound of hard rain and thunder. At 7:00 when the guide met me, it was still raining hard and a look up the canyon showed little relief. The guide said he’d take me down the river if that’s what I wanted to do–but he recommended against it, especially because of the lightning. We decided instead to take an impromptu trip to Grey’s River Canyon where he offered to accompany me to fish (wading, not floating) the river. Grey’s River is awesome–it’s easy to wade and has nice pools all up and down the river. Wild cutthroat trout up to 22 inches or so. It is National Forest water and a dirt road follows it for some 50 miles or more (I’m guessing). We drove up the canyon quite a way and began fishing. The weather was cloudy but we saw no rain. I started with streamers and caught a few nice fish–mostly just buying time until a bit of surface action began. Much of the streamer fishing was dapping in deep pools with heavy stuff. I caught several fish–at least one over 18 inches. But casting was absolutely no fun at all. We came to quite a nice pool that was rather difficult to get to–it involved walking down the side of a steep drop-off. Nothing that would have been hard had my knee been "normal" but it was hard not being able to bend my left leg. Anyway, I made it down to the hole and started the down-and-across huck and chuck. I managed to snag the streamer–or at least thought I had–until I started pulling really hard and the "snag" started swimming upstream. The fish went upstream about 25 feet and just held there for a while. I couldn’t seem to pull it down to me nor could I wade up to the fish. Finally, it got tired of the standstill and took off down stream. The current was very fast and I lost a lot of line in a hurry. The guide kept saying "let her run, let her run" but I freaked out and choked off the line once the fish got about 75 feet downstream. Snap. No more fish on my 3X leader. I could make a number of excuses, but the fact of the matter is that I CHOKED!!! I had never before had a fish run on me like that and I botched it real good. But I learned a lesson that would prove helpful later in the week. Dries started working really well in the afternoon and I caught a number of fish in the 16-18" range and many others in the 12-14" range. Parachute Adams was the fly of the day. Grey’s River is very beautiful and from what I can tell is not very crowded if you’re willing to drive up the canyon a bit. I’ll be back again to catch that big fish another day. I’ll do the Snake float another time as well. –Steve

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rod builders out there . . . The subject company (a small business I suspect) offers graphite rod building kits for about $70.  No manufacturer mentioned for the blanks.  I am considering this as a good way to build a first rod and learn without spending big bucks on a good blank.  The rod would then be used for teaching my 9 year old to cast and if I learn how to build a rod and feel confident, I’ll do one on a nice blank.  Anyway: Have any of you folks built a rod from this guy and can you tell me if it was reasonable quality.  I don’t want to pay $70 and find out it is junk. The web site is:  http://www.jbrodco.com/ Let me know, Jim

Jim You could spend more for less at wally world, if you want or expect a custom sage, forget it.  What do you want for 70 bucks..?                 Why don’t you ask him what kind of hardware is included..? You maybe should ask him to put it together for you too.

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As I indicated – I am looking for a good starter set of components I can use to learn on, before building a Sage or similar blank.  I have no issue with spending a few bucks on good components or a completed rod (as all my rods are today) I want to try rod-building. I have asked him about the stuff, but I was looking for other opinions from those who may have actually bought a kit and used them. Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Hi Jim, As stated by another responding to you, ask the seller what components come with the kit.  Things to look for are what the blank is made from, who makes it, is it fast or slow action, what is the warranty on the blank, does he have any references of those who have already built from the kit.  Next I would get the name of the manufacturer of the various components, I.E., reel seat, guides (ask how many stripping guides), cork handle, thread, type of finishing materials included and any other stuff you can think of.  I would than look on the net to compare prices or get a few catalogs from places like Angler’s Workshop, Head & Tails, Cabelas, Dale Clemens and whomever else you can think of who sells blanks and rod building gear.  There are rod building sights on the net in addition to magazines devoted to the subject. You might want to check out Fly Rod & Reel and Fly Fishing and Tying Journal.  I have seen classified ads in these magazines for blanks and kits. I have found blanks in the past that are absolutely incredible.  Some are only $3-4 per foot, and are so good that I can not, for the life of me, explain how the big guys like Sage, Loomis, T&T and others get so much for their blanks/rods. Good luck with your project.  No matter what you eventually purchase, you will enjoy the process with your son and it will help you make informed decisions for future projects. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rod builders out there . . . The subject company (a small business I suspect) offers graphite rod building kits for about $70.  No manufacturer mentioned for the blanks.  I am considering this as a good way to build a first rod and learn without spending big bucks on a good blank.  The rod would then be used for teaching my 9 year old to cast and if I learn how to build a rod and feel confident, I’ll do one on a nice blank.  Anyway: Have any of you folks built a rod from this guy and can you tell me if it was reasonable quality.  I don’t want to pay $70 and find out it is junk. The web site is:  http://www.jbrodco.com/ Let me know, Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Rod builders out there . . . The subject company (a small business I suspect) offers graphite rod building kits for about $70.  No manufacturer mentioned for the blanks.  I am considering this as a good way to build a first rod and learn without spending big bucks on a good blank.  The rod would then be used for teaching my 9 year old to cast and if I learn how to build a rod and feel confident, I’ll do one on a nice blank.  Anyway: Have any of you folks built a rod from this guy and can you tell me if it was reasonable quality.  I don’t want to pay $70 and find out it is junk. The web site is:  http://www.jbrodco.com/ Let me know, Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. Everyone can improve their fishing skills, but most of us will never get to that level. In the last thirty years I have fished with or near some great fly fisherman. Many of us are good anglers, but there is only a handful of great ones. Many of the best are only know locally for their great skill and will not be writen about in magazine articles.  There are also some great anglers that don’t fly fish.

A Master Angler?  One who fishes humbly, always in wonder. Musconet

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted] Is a Master Angler old? Often. But not always. Its an attitude first more than ability. By itself partial knowledge is grenade. Or it is a tool. The partition is in its administration . This is wisdom. And above all else a Master Angler is Wise Taken from the pages of Master Angler . . . . — Bob Sheedy Arctic Fire Software Home of THE FISHING LOG and MASTER ANGLER http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

Really good post! I was told a story by someone I now know to be a Master Angler. Apparently, while at a meeting of some Ministry mucky mucks and some fishing types a survey was conducted by one of the Ministry types to help them better understand the sports demographics and socio/economic impact. Among the many questions was one asking the anglers to classify themselves as to their ability. The categories were, beginer, novice, intermediate and expert. Several years later, the person who had developed the survey was bumped into again by the story teller.  Being a curious sort he asked what the survey results had revealed.   Apparently the most significant information gleaned from the survey was the anglers assesment of their abilities.   15% beginers, 25% novice, 50% intermediate and 10% expert. The conclusion drawn was that despite popular perception, only 10% of anglers are indeed liars! Mind you, this was several years ago. Mike

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I know this much: anyone who believes him/herself to be a master angler is definitely not one; I don’t care what kind of silly badge they’ve been awarded. Not everything in life was created to be mastered. You can’t master angling any more than you can master the water the sky or time itself. Spinolio

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I know this much: anyone who believes him/herself to be a master angler is definitely not one; I don’t care what kind of silly badge they’ve been awarded. Not everything in life was created to be mastered. You can’t master angling any more than you can master the water the sky or time itself. Spinolio

Being from the 28 th century, sent here to save one trout through C&R that will reshape mankinds future course and take us to the next plateau in human development, I must object to the reference of our inability to control time! If you only knew. Mike

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anyone, who allows fishing to take them to that place unencumbered by social pressures of any kind. TimW

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A Master Angler is anyone who takes a kid fishing for the day and both return home with a smile.

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough.

This isn’t always correct.  The master anglers I know brag, but in a sneaky way.   Master Angler (MA):  Nice day out, how you doing? Average Angler(AA):  Oh, really well, I got 4 fish.  How bout you? MA: I guess I did ok. AA: how many fish did you catch? MA: Oh, somewhere around 20. It’s the humbling factor.  Of course the Master angler actually has caught that many. Carl carl

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Any Angler with a MasterCard. TimW

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Any Angler with a MasterCard. TimW

Clearifying ranks: 1)  Beginner      Doesn’t know how to spell MasterCard 2)  Intermediate  Learning how to spell MasterCard 3)  Master        Knows how to spell MasterCard 4)  The Local     Picks your pocket  George

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Anyone who knows more than I do about any flyfishing subject, and will share that knowledge, is master enough for me.

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Its a question that has many answers. In some States, Provinces all you have to do is catch a fish over a certain size and you automatically qualify. You get a certificate, badge and everything. Think about it. You tied on a hook a line and a sinker and wham. First time fishing and you qualified as an overnight success! Your name is in the Provincial or State Records and you can proudly show it to everyone. And you do. For others to be a Master Angler you have to be like the guys on TV. You need THINGS to qualify. A Bassboat with at least 200HP and at least 17 feet of solid foam filled unsinkable fibreglass because to have fun you have to be able to hit every hot spot on 145,000 acres of water every two hours. Having your name emblazoned on the side of your 4 x4 and stitched on your designer jump suit is a certain give away that you’ve made the grade. Even if you hit the dock empty handed you can shout at your friend to make sure the live well is running because you want them fresh when you get home. People at the dock will surely be impressed and if your out on the water you can give a high double handed overhand hookset and yell, "Fish on", that will definitely qualify you for something! For others fishing is a competition. First with each other and then money for first fish, biggest fish to keep things interesting. They work at it hard and the rewards gained, though spotty, and often controlled more by combinations and permutations rather than angler interventions, begin to come more frequently. Most visible in all of this is perhaps the Tournament where the winner is unquestionably revered as a Master Angler and that of some instant note. There is nothing wrong with any or all three of the above. We have all met them on and off the water every one and each has his or her niche in the sport and their justifiable claim to fame. Even fly fishermen now compete and for cash. There are however distortions developing as to who really is good at the sport and like Christ’s disciples, mainly fishermen, long dissertations of who really is the best ensue often under many guises and not just the few above. In reality the title is not acquired by way of obtaining it through instant material aquisitions, winning a tournament or Tackle Company sponsorship. All of these things are market driven aberrations which lengthen  Manufacturers Balance sheets and are maneuvered by a handful of men who set the promotions for the year just as surely as the toy manufacturers eye the December market. Slick promotions have done much for the enhancement of the sport and ensured success through valid stocking programs and stream renewals by those attracted. This is the upside. Perhaps inadvertently the Movie, "A River Runs Through It",  did more for the streams of Montana and area than any other item published in the past 30 years. It breathed life into the art of flyfishing and turned it into a big business. It also filled the waters with fishermen and floating devices to the point where the streamside watering holes, tackle shops and the on-line forums are filled with complaints of overcrowding and overuse to the point where the steady hum of who is the best is all but drowned out. The Movie was a powerful advertisement whether intended as such or not. So to is the power of  the deliberately orchestrated image building advertisement in a powerful media. When your favourite Saturday AM hero stands up and tells you that "Brand X" Lures are his secret weapon you are more likely to believe him if you just witnessed 18 minutes of watching him rip fishlips. It works! More and more I see people imitating his methods and why not! They catch fish! Lots of fish. There is another assessment to consider however . . . . Looking back over the years I look at my own development as a fisherman and see myself reflected in the others I’ve met along the banks of stream or puddling around in lakes. Although they overlap considerably there are definite identifiable peaks in the development process. There is the stage when someone first takes up the sport. The huge array of disciplines and the tackle for each can be a formidable learning process in itself long before you ever arrive at the water. Even species selection has become so specialized that you almost need a degree in ichthyology before you make your first cast. So the first stage is set by the crowd that visits a lake from time to time launches or sets up a chaise lounge and throws out a favourite bait. Success is related to fish activity and generally they are likeliest to go when they are "biting". Another stage is delineated by those who take it a step further and begin to notice feeding lanes, weed edges and other structures and the increase in success as they learn more about them. Piscatorial Prosperity begins to come even on the days when no one else is getting anything. At the end of this stage a cocky attitude begins to grow as one realizes that he is getting GOOD. Probably this is the most dangerous stage for a fisherman. At this point growth can regress into a few successful lures and techniques and since they work often and the fish kills are numerous why change? The same thread runs through flyfishing as well. Success begins to come easier and easier and the catches begin to increase to the point that they actually start going back in if such was not the philosophy from the outset. I mean if you have a fifty fish day you cannot keep them all. If you happen to match the hatch and the fish are on a feeding binge fifty fish days are a real possibility to those who can cast a fly. Then it all changes. What is the goal now?. Bigger catches? A tournament? Guiding? As humans we have to always be challenged. Its in our DNA. Should the challenge die then so does the interest whether by success or by failure. Either can stunt our progress. The Hubble telescope was designed carefully to put and end to the quest for the edges of the universe. Very quickly walls and bubbles were found as the patterns of galaxies were modeled in a 3D. Did the Universe shrink? Instead the edges were moved to awesome depths of anonymity and the modeling is showing a pattern and shape that is disquieting in its rhythm and regularity. No questions were answered rather quest beget questions. So it is when you walk to the top of the hills in the Piscatorial Pursuits and peer over the top only to witness new vistas in all their snowcapped glory.  Suddenly the realization becomes manifest in one moment of fundamental aquatic truth. You know very little about the old hookjaw himself and his habits, his environment and how he relates to it. This lack of knowledge is invigorating and interest is renewed at higher levels. The dangerous hump is passed. You are going to become a Master Angler. Article Unavailable

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted]

Here are some definitions I made up just now: beginner: the trout often makes a fool out of him novice: once in a while he catches a trout, but has no idea why intermediate: the trout sometimes don’t even know he is there expert: can catch trout when others can only catch a cold master: able to predict the strike precisely, even before it happens                                                        __ john quill taylor                                     / / writer at large                                      / /   Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division    __     /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A.                         /_/  __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MST = GMT – 7)     /  \  / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard                    / \             11413 Chinden Blvd                 \             Boise, Idaho 83714                   _/             Mailstop 852                            _/                                                   _/       "When in doubt, do as doubters do." – jqt –                   haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list,              where is our schindler?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? [much good stuff deleted] Here are some definitions I made up just now: beginner: the trout often makes a fool out of him novice: once in a while he catches a trout, but has no idea why intermediate: the trout sometimes don’t even know he is there expert: can catch trout when others can only catch a cold master: able to predict the strike precisely, even before it happens

Being me, I’d say: Beginner:  "Well, I thought they were brown trout.  Are chubs good to eat?" Novice:  "I don’t know, I’ve never tried one." Intermediate: "Naw, they’re trash fish." Expert:  "I wouldn’t be caught dead with a chub, or lowlife fisherman that catch them. I’m out of here." Master: "I don’t know, let’s cook one up and see." Steve

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. This isn’t always correct.  The master anglers I know brag, but in a sneaky way.   Master Angler (MA):  Nice day out, how you doing? Average Angler(AA):  Oh, really well, I got 4 fish.  How bout you? MA: I guess I did ok. AA: how many fish did you catch? MA: Oh, somewhere around 20. It’s the humbling factor.  Of course the Master angler actually has caught that many. carl

 Don’t take that for granted Carl, usually people who still take an exact tally at the end of the day/evening…really haven’t *gotten it* yet. tight_lines, steve d.

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[text deleted] Taken from the pages of Master Angler . . . .

Phew ! Glad that wasn’t written by a bait fisherman ! TimW

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify?

I have fished with some Master Anglers. They are those guys that never brag and always catch something when it is really tough. Everyone can improve their fishing skills, but most of us will never get to that level. In the last thirty years I have fished with or near some great fly fisherman. Many of us are good anglers, but there is only a handful of great ones. Many of the best are only know locally for their great skill and will not be writen about in magazine articles.  There are also some great anglers that don’t fly fish. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Much interesting stuff deleted. — Bob Sheedy

Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter? David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter?

Too obvious, you should have taken the pun approach ala an earlier post. Then you could have said you saw it ‘coming’<g. Charlie…

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What is a Master Angler? Who qualifies? How do you qualify? Much interesting stuff deleted. — Bob Sheedy Umm, so Bob – if you fish with worms; how long before you get to be a masterbaiter? David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

In Louisiana I’m told you need to serve 2 seasons as an apprentice, learning to bait and assisting others, another 3 seasons as a fully qualified baiter, afterwhich, and upon the unamimous consent of the Captains of the Shrimp Fleet, and by the grace of Posiedon, you can be awarded the "clenched fist (and teeth)" medal of a MASTER. This is a paraphrase of a dissertaion delivered by one Midshipman 4th Class Rollie DuCote of Gretna LA, on or about July 22nd 1970, delivered before the assembled Class of 1974, of the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, N.Y., in response to a question concerning his qualifications for admission to the Academy. Rollie I hope you are listening. jg

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Question:

Recently I was looking out the window of a jet and daydreaming. As we passed over southern Montana I saw what seemed to be an isolated range of mountains with lots of lakes and streams. It looked beautiful. When I got home and checked the map it appeared to be the Wind River Range. Does anybody know if this is an interesting area for fly fishing and backpacking? Thanks. Charles Daniel

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Recently I was looking out the window of a jet and daydreaming. As we passed over southern Montana I saw what seemed to be an isolated range of mountains with lots of lakes and streams. It looked beautiful. When I got home and checked the map it appeared to be the Wind River Range. Does anybody know if this is an interesting area for fly fishing and backpacking? Thanks. Charles Daniel

Charles: The Winds are indeed absolutely beautiful.  I have done a number of backpacking trips into various portions of the Winds and they have spectacular scenery and fabulous fishing.  I’ve been on lakes where you could literally catch 12"-16" cutthroats on about every cast. There are a number of trailheads on both the east and west sides of the range, and there are hundreds of lakes with fish in them.  You can get forest service maps of the range (I think it’s the Shoshone Natl. Forest and the office is in Pinedale, WY). The Winds are definitely worth a trip – or ten. Good luck, Bob

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Recently I was looking out the window of a jet and daydreaming. As we passed over southern Montana I saw what seemed to be an isolated range of mountains with lots of lakes and streams. It looked beautiful. When I got home and checked the map it appeared to be the Wind River Range. Does anybody know if this is an interesting area for fly fishing and backpacking? Thanks. Charles Daniel

Better check your map again.  The Winds are in Wyoming.  However, they are a superb location for fishing and backpacking.  Some of the most beautiful country in the state is in the Winds. Don Kelly

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Question:

  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.   I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.                Thanks…Blayne

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ALL SEASON…U USE ANYTHING  U WANT..AND, I LL CATCH AND RELEASE MORE FISH….GOOD LUCK ANYWAY!!!  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know   what flies are better during the different seasons.    I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be   appreciated.                 Thanks…Blayne

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 Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne

Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Different flies are useful for different seasons. Does anybody know what flies are better during the different seasons.  I live in central Ontario and am just starting out.  Any help would be appreciated.               Thanks…Blayne Hi Blayne, I’m going to present an extremely short and generalized list on a large and complicated subject. Midges: All year Stoneflies: Spring Mayflies: Spring and Fall Caddisflies: Spring through Fall As the year progresses, fish progressively smaller flies. These are ideas that can and will be disputed, but as generalizations go, I think they each carry a kernel of truth. I hope this helps,   Alan.

Hi Alan, Best stated short course I’ve seen. I hope you don’t mind if I reference it from time to time. Good job. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (new 96 catalog)

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Question:

I’m planning a flyfishing trip to Jackson Hole sometime next spring. Two fishermen and two non-fishers will be going. Where should we stay? Can someone recommend a good guide for 1 day to show us the lay of the land/water? Will the non-fishers be happy for about 1 week? When is the best time to go in terms of fish/lack of pressure? Thanks.

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I’m planning a flyfishing trip to Jackson Hole sometime next spring. Two fishermen and two non-fishers will be going. Where should we stay? Can someone recommend a good guide for 1 day to show us the lay of the land/water? Will the non-fishers be happy for about 1 week? When is the best time to go in terms of fish/lack of pressure? Thanks.

Jackson can be a very expensive place to stay. Even in my advanced state of career etc. I still bristle at the cost of some of my trips. (remember, homes there are going for 7 figures easily) As for places to stay, one nice place is the Elk Refuge Inn, a newer place with a nice view of the Elk refuge, a short distance from town, shopping and dining. Good for non fishers I am sure. It is near some good fishing on the Snake and across from some fishing near the Hatchery which is next to the refuge. Also reasonable. 307-733-3582. Another place is the Hobak River Resort, south of town a few miles. A little jumbled with various type of rooms and cabins. The chief reason to stay there is its cheaper and near one of my favorite rivers. About 11 miles upstream (by road) from the intersection with the motel in the Hoback Canyon. Delightful fishing. Just pull off the road, (I usually cast from the bank!, easy to cast across this small river/stream) and go to it. Lots of native cutthroat. As far as guides, its hard to go wrong with Jack Dennis Sports, or the local Orvis store. The Orvis store is nice, but like most others. Definitely go see Jack Dennis Sports. There is a pleasing young lady by the name of Lori Ann, (I think she works for Orvis). I understand she is very competent and experienced. I have never used her as I have not yet used a guide in the area but plan to use her in the future. She comes highly recommended. Ask around. If the non fishers have the cash, they will find plenty to spend it on. Or, have them bring a camera and have them go to Teton Nat’l park and Yellowstone and take pictures. Spring can be cold, get there before or after runoff. Call the shops for advice on timing. Book rooms and guides early. They fillup fast. Kevin Williams-Indianapolis, IN

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