Question:

As much as I would like to say we are not so individual as we would like to think.. in this case, we really are. Yes, we’re all individuals! ~raises hand~ i’m not…. *grin* (not really.  just couldn’t let the MP reference go by uncommented.)

Thank you. I’m glad someone got it. R.

Response:

I worship the moon Goddess Diana/Artimis

It is a popular misconception that Diana is the Goddess of the Moon.  In fact, she was the Goddess of the Sun.  The name Diana means "light".   – Chive "There be some whose lives are as if they perpetually played a part upon a stage, disguised to all others, open only to themselves."

Question:

Nothing has a probability of one, except the likelyhood of me getting wind knots on a trip. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

Response:

I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  

No. The trials are independent (assuming you aren’t learning anything as you go along). {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….}

I have an fool-proof system for roulette you might be interested in. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Logic and calculus don’t always go together.  Combined with something as illogical as fishing it’s a complete waste of time. Try rotating the function   Y= -1/X about the Y axix and compute both the volume and the area of the surface you have created.  It has a finite volume and an infinite surface area. Which means…. You can get enough paint to fill the shape but you can’t get enough paint to paint it. I recall that the Law of Large

Happy New Year!!!

Good thought  I’ll second that. BJC

Response:

I recall that the Law of Large Numbers allows one to derive that if an event has a non-zero probability, then if you conduct the experiment an infinite (or very large) number of times, then the event occurs with a probability of one.  So this means that if I cast a fly line an infinite number of times, I’m bound to catch a fish.  So, every time I go practice casting in the sound, then I’m just working off those non-occuring casts, no?  {Aside, I did have a couple of bad days last summer where I actually caught a fish, so I must have a lot more non-productive castst to work off….} Happy New Year!!! john

Response:

Question:

I usually take to wearing a Blaze Orange hat during this time of year.  I haven’t been shot at while fishing but did have a "road hunter" clip a branch off over my head when I walked out of our hunting cabin after lunch many years back. Anyway, as Walt pointed out, tis a grand season to be afield with the wee trouties my lads! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals. — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

Response:

That would likely draw fire in your direction! — Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Response:

I usually take to wearing a Blaze Orange hat during this time of year.  I haven’t been shot at while fishing but did have a "road hunter" clip a branch off over my head when I walked out of our hunting cabin after lunch many years back. Anyway, as Walt pointed out, tis a grand season to be afield with the wee trouties my lads! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Nor is it safe to hang laundry.  A woman was shot dead by a hunter while hanging her wash.  The hunter got off because she was wearing white gloves.  In other words – she was a whitetail deer and she should have known better. God save us from idiots with guns and apologist courts. Peter

Response:

This may not work, everybody is dear to someone. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals. — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Which, if you are dealing with a true bonehead, merely convinces them that you must be whitetail. Jon

Response:

You must simply declare "I am not an elk" as loudly as possible on 1 minute intervals.

Isn’t this what PETA does? — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

A few years ago, fishing Penfield Reef for stripers.  Two guys come out with shotguns, one of them wades out a ways to start setting up decoys.  Some duck come flying by, his buddy starts shooting over his head.  I moseyed.  Told my friend further down the reef that if this guy would shoot over his friends head, he wouldn’t think twice about my safety.  Got my biggest bass on a fly (up to that time).  All in all a memorable day. — David Burnside "I’d like to dedicate this song to the girl in the third row with the yellow underwear." Jimi Hendrix Before you buy.

Response:

Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there. I have never noticed this personally but have had the occasional riverside arguement about it, is the colour of your clothing. Am I right in thinking in doesnt really matter to trout? Or  the trout dont find me a threat,…they most know me )

Response:

IMHO it makes no difference whether you wear orange or camo when fishing. Fish will see you no matter what you wear. The trick is to stay out of their line of site As for the bush, I much prefer wearing orange and missing the occasional shot(which might or might not be attributed to the colour of my clothing) than stand the chance of being popped off by some weekend warrior. Terry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there. I have never noticed this personally but have had the occasional riverside arguement about it, is the colour of your clothing. Am I right in thinking in doesnt really matter to trout? Or  the trout dont find me a threat,…they most know me )

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wearing orange isnt compulsary here,..in fact many idiots tend to wear camo. Times to stay out of the bush is during the roar and long weekends.Not only will the stags find you interesting when you pee, but the once a year hunters come out in force. Pretty rotten when you have tramped 5 hours to a favourite spot then find a helicopter with idiots right there.

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here.

From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price. — Charlie…

Response:

I figured it had to be somewhere far from here. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price. — Charlie…

Response:

Excuse me, but are you saying that hunters (where you are; where is that by the way?) DON’T have to wear hunter’s orange and can access an area by air and get out and hunt? Both of those are illegal here. From the address I’d guess New Zealand. I heard Tommy Suharto has a big place there where you can hunt pretty much anything for a price.

Wouldn’t happen to know if Britney Spears, Mr. Suharto, or Esox are on the pricelist, wouldja? Wolfgang rethinking the recently stated position on hunting

Response:

Wouldn’t happen to know if Britney Spears, Mr. Suharto, or Esox are on the pricelist, wouldja?

Special order, I think. — Charlie…

Response:

I’m in South Africa and you can hunt in psychadelic pink if you like<g All you require is a twenty buck permit issued annually. You can only hunt in certain areas, but how you do it is entirely up to you. That, by the way excludes endangered species such as Rhino, for which you need a special permit. Most hunting is done on private land and the land owners generally make up there own rules. Terry Ps Hunting is not nearly as big here as in the States. Most of the serious hunting is in fact done in Namibia.

Response:

I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons. As I was driving down the road I began to realize I was heading into a killing zone. There were pickups parked everywhere…. deer hunters afield…. all in search of that last buck of the season. I turned off onto the old forest road that would lead me to the stretch of Wilsons I wanted to fish without much hope. Cool…. no trucks. I dressed out and rigged up and slid down the bank into Wilsons, spooking a little fish on the way in. I moved past his pool up to the next pool and was pleasantly surprised when a 10 inch brown nailed my adams parachute. I quickly released him and moved up the boulders to the next pool and was similarily rewarded. Way Cool… this is gonna be a good day. As I climbed the next boulder steppe, low and behold, all decked out in flourescent orange, is a hunter heading downstream my way. I snipped off my fly and waited for him, the fishing done. He told me that his friends had dropped him off at the top (2 miles above me) and were gonna pick him up later where I had parked. I asked him if he had seen any deer and he replied not a one….. I also noticed that he was very wet and dirty…. no doubt from hiking down Wilsons in rubber sole boots….. kinda made my day. Well, since the fish were down and I was obviously heading into a dangerous area without that cool orange vest and hat, I decided to book on out and find a place to fish where I had at least a 50/50 chance of survival. I drove up and over a few ridges to a high elevation small stream I fish on occasion, pretty sure there wouldn’t be any hunters there. I arrived on stream after a short hike and noticed the water, as with all streams in the area, was crystal clear and low and that there was ice and snow still abundant where the sun’s light couldn’t reach it. I started up and landed a few small browns and missed a few more. I arrived at one of Matt McCrayfish’s favorite pools and sat down and had a smoke…. contemplating how best to fish this pool. I tied on a fresh adams parachute, size 18, on 6x. I casted to the tail and hooked what I like to refer to as the guard fish…. the dang fish that will spook and run helter-skelter throughout the pool putting down all the bigger fish an in instant. I released him downstream and was primed for some more. I ended up with three more nice fish, one at a little over a foot. All browns. I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Nice story snipped, but…. Meanwhile, over on rec.hunting, Sam "Bubo" Summer writes, "I had the biggest buck of my life in my crosshairs, when all of a sudden, a sound such as can only be imagined spooks every critter on the East Coast.  For an instant, I was frozen, thinking what horrible creature might make such a noise, when I was shocked, relieved, and amused to hear fragments of speech with such words as "sonofabitch," "freezing." "neuticles off."  As the hunting was shot, I decided to pack it in and headed down.  I was surprised to run into a dripping wet dude in rubber pants full of water, some weird fishing pole in hand, using a dead duck’s assfeathers for bait.  These curious city dudes are a loopy group…." Glad you made it through the gauntlet alive, Walt. <G TC, R "You shore got a purdy mouth, thar, boy…" I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g

After which other words besides what Sam heard? <g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt

Response:

Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.

Had a surprising (and very minor) related incident just this afternoon.   I was in the woods behind my inlaws house cutting some firewood with two BILs and #1 son.   With the roar of chainsaws and concentration on what I was doing, I didn’t notice the two young hunters walk into our area.   The were unarmed, but decked out in lots of orange.   The oldest wasn’t far beyond teenage, and the kid looked to be about twelve. They had just stopped by out of courtesy to let us know they were in the area "over there".   No problem, thanks. Not being a hunter myself, it’s easy to stereotype the lot of ‘em as drunken buttheads (especially in my area).  It was great to see this level of courtesy & responsibility out of a couple "youngsters". Joe F.

Response:

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you say in this post, just disagreed with "If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault".  Blaze orange or no blaze orange it’s the hunter’s fault….not that it matters much to the shot person.      - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mine was not to assert that it was really one fault, but that the chances are much greater that one will be seen if they are wearing blaze orange. While it may be true that pedestrians have the right-of-way, it is just common sense to be observant of objects of great weigh and size, traveling at high speeds.  One may take comfort in knowing they were in the right, but death or sever injury is rarely a comfortable lifestyle. "My fault, your fault, it don’t matter.  Either way the boy dies."  (Some John Wayne movie) Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken

– "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

Mine was not to assert that it was really one fault, but that the chances are much greater that one will be seen if they are wearing blaze orange. While it may be true that pedestrians have the right-of-way, it is just common sense to be observant of objects of great weigh and size, traveling at high speeds.  One may take comfort in knowing they were in the right, but death or sever injury is rarely a comfortable lifestyle. "My fault, your fault, it don’t matter.  Either way the boy dies."  (Some John Wayne movie) Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, [if] they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange

Gotta disagree.  It is absolutely 100% the hunter’s fault.  If you can’t 100% positively identify what you are shooting at, you don’t shoot.  That said, I’ve come close to being shot multiple times by butthead (usually drunk) hunters shooting at anything that moves… and I was wearing blaze orange too.  Reason # 400 why I don’t hunt anymore.      - Ken — "A wedding is just like a funeral except that you get to smell  your own flowers." – Grace Hansen

Response:

Nope no buck, no doe.  Such is life.  I’ve only been hunting seriously the last two years, and am 0-2. It is best to wear blaze orange during hunting season, whether you are huntin’ or fishin’, or just walking in the woods.  That goes for turkey season as well.  If a person is shot in the woods during hunting season, it is there own fault, they weren’t wearin’ blaze orange, unless of course it was a hit.  In that case blaze orange only alerts the assassin to his target. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons. As I was driving down the road I began to realize I was heading into a killing zone. There were pickups parked everywhere…. deer hunters afield…. all in search of that last buck of the season. I turned off onto the old forest road that would lead me to the stretch of Wilsons I wanted to fish without much hope. Cool…. no trucks. I dressed out and rigged up and slid down the bank into Wilsons, spooking a little fish on the way in. I moved past his pool up to the next pool and was pleasantly surprised when a 10 inch brown nailed my adams parachute. I quickly released him and moved up the boulders to the next pool and was similarily rewarded. Way Cool… this is gonna be a good day. As I climbed the next boulder steppe, low and behold, all decked out in flourescent orange, is a hunter heading downstream my way. I snipped off my fly and waited for him, the fishing done. He told me that his friends had dropped him off at the top (2 miles above me) and were gonna pick him up later where I had parked. I asked him if he had seen any deer and he replied not a one….. I also noticed that he was very wet and dirty…. no doubt from hiking down Wilsons in rubber sole boots….. kinda made my day. Well, since the fish were down and I was obviously heading into a dangerous area without that cool orange vest and hat, I decided to book on out and find a place to fish where I had at least a 50/50 chance of survival. I drove up and over a few ridges to a high elevation small stream I fish on occasion, pretty sure there wouldn’t be any hunters there. I arrived on stream after a short hike and noticed the water, as with all streams in the area, was crystal clear and low and that there was ice and snow still abundant where the sun’s light couldn’t reach it. I started up and landed a few small browns and missed a few more. I arrived at one of Matt McCrayfish’s favorite pools and sat down and had a smoke…. contemplating how best to fish this pool. I tied on a fresh adams parachute, size 18, on 6x. I casted to the tail and hooked what I like to refer to as the guard fish…. the dang fish that will spook and run helter-skelter throughout the pool putting down all the bigger fish an in instant. I released him downstream and was primed for some more. I ended up with three more nice fish, one at a little over a foot. All browns. I decided to quit for the day shortly afterwords….. as I slid about 10′ down a icy boulder back into the pool <g Opie, I hope you got yer buck today… I know you’ve been trying. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

I don’t like fishing during deer hunting either.  I fish in a river on a game preserve during hunting season. Ernie

I rolled out of bed early, eager to begin a foray in search of wild mountain fish. After dealing with the overnight e-mail, I headed out to my favorite stream, Wilson’s Creek. I inserted Bing Crosby and Satchmo’s "Gone Fishin’" into the cd player and repeated it 4 or 5 times on the drive over Grandfather mountain down to the dirt road that would lead me to Wilsons.

<nice trip report snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Walt

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Question:

I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things.   For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things. For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators! Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. You have feathers? <G

Um, doesn’t everybody? <VBG Quack! pavanne — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators! Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. You have feathers? <G

Three paragraphs higher than you’re thinking. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators!

Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Everyone? mom! kiwigirl is staring at me again!

hahahahahahahaha. whew. you better watch it or you’re dead at recess.   jean

Response:

This, my dear, is ASD.  Where people with varying degrees of mental illness from across the globe cross paths in a matter unprecedented in history.  Where images and projections are given free rein, fed by the mystery of a glowing screen.  Where reality, encountered, rarely satisfies.  Where hearts are broken, behavior repeats itself, needs are laid bare, and a few of us die.  And once in a while, people fall in love, or don’t need to be here anymore.

<gasp Chimera, Where did you get this? i like it. It’s so accurate and… pretty.

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To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive.

Yes!! {jumping up and down] Never, ever, goggle ever (as Maria would say) can get this right. Rosena

Response:

I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post.

I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. <Later Why would anyone think that I had combs for flax or hemp? Odd that. I’d thought it would be something completely different. You know, personal. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

or else it ends up with some one telling you they think you are fake like glen told me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting. To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. It’s one thing to assert yourself when there’s a conflict with another person (i.e., stand your ground); it’s entirely another thing to aggress against someone else in a conflict (i.e., go out of your way to hurt that person, as is the case with flames). Trouble is, the boundary between assertiveness and aggression is kinda fuzzy, and depends at least in part on how the various individuals involved interpret a series of exchanges. What I might intend as simply "standing my ground" may be interpreted by the other person as a personal attack, and vice versa. On a related note, I tend to think that anger in and of itself is not destructive. The trick is learning how to express it in a way that does not harm the folks one is angry at. If this group offers some opportunities for learning how to deal with angry emotions in a less destructive manner, then it serves as a force for positive change. Sometimes that happens here, sometimes it doesn’t. And so it goes. Welcome to ASD. James p/e "Vision is both revelation and revolution. It is the call AND the response." — James Benjamin (2000) http://www.geocities.com/the_bokononist/

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*shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting.

To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. It’s one thing to assert yourself when there’s a conflict with another person (i.e., stand your ground); it’s entirely another thing to aggress against someone else in a conflict (i.e., go out of your way to hurt that person, as is the case with flames). Trouble is, the boundary between assertiveness and aggression is kinda fuzzy, and depends at least in part on how the various individuals involved interpret a series of exchanges. What I might intend as simply "standing my ground" may be interpreted by the other person as a personal attack, and vice versa. On a related note, I tend to think that anger in and of itself is not destructive. The trick is learning how to express it in a way that does not harm the folks one is angry at. If this group offers some opportunities for learning how to deal with angry emotions in a less destructive manner, then it serves as a force for positive change. Sometimes that happens here, sometimes it doesn’t. And so it goes. Welcome to ASD. James p/e "Vision is both revelation and revolution. It is the call AND the response." — James Benjamin (2000) http://www.geocities.com/the_bokononist/

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Hey Kath, Why not just ignore and filter out the fights? I think fighting is healthy. It brings our our truest emotions to the forefront and always us to sit afterwards and learn so much more about ourselves. Fighting is a normal part of lives, can’t get around it. Sometimes it’s a fun way to release some of that pressure building up inside of us that just needs to get out. Mary Beth

I know that…  I dunno…. guess two reasons I even bothered to post about this… 1 – I’m concerned.    In my nice little world of fairies and laughter… I like to see people getting along, being supportive etc and I don’t know what’s causing the problems, the hostility etc.   2 – I hate to see the wrong people get dragged into fights simply by replying the wrong way or to the wrong post, and yes, selfishly, I am worried that I’ll get flamed to hell and back. *shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting. I’m not flaming… that’s obvious.  But I am concerned about it.  And if that’s wrong, so be it… some people don’t agree… that’s your right, just as it’s my right to express my concern about it. kath

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it’s just aprt of the asd culture… sometimes people have shitfight. happens in real life, happens here. i do the obvious and just don’t read any of it. it does help, y’know. and, for what it’s worth, i’m quite happy being a kid. stuffed if i’m going to act like an adult just to keep everyone happy! — *** DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND; THE FAULT IS WITH REALITY! Adam came first. But then, men always do. God created men because a vibrator couldn’t mow the lawn so you can make me cum — that doesn’t make you jesus icq #20581291

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things. For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

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AND I forgot to use my own doggone email addy instead of the one the sharer of this computer uses. I’M A YUTZ!!!

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You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady? No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings.

Oops…fergot to turn on the flashing neon IRONY sign when I posted that.  Mea culpa.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady? No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings. I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post. This is a forum for discussion, venting etc… I get that… I just don’t know what’s changed in the atmosphere that so many people are taking things personally and fighting about things. *sigh*  maybe I just don’t get it? Sorry for bothering… kath

yah, there does seem to be quite a bit of squabbling lately. one thing about this place though, is that there is so much going on that, much of the time, it isn’t that hard to decide, "i’m not reading that type of post" — no matter whether your "that type of post" is cat posts or polls or flames — and still have plenty of other posts to read. one trick which has served me well, when i have become tired of reading the fighting, is to look for the threads which look like entwined snakes where a few people are on semi-manic replying binges and just delete those unread. anyway, hope you are doing ok. ferret, postmail

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things.   For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

Hey Kath, Why not just ignore and filter out the fights? I think fighting is healthy. It brings our our truest emotions to the forefront and always us to sit afterwards and learn so much more about ourselves. Fighting is a normal part of lives, can’t get around it. Sometimes it’s a fun way to release some of that pressure building up inside of us that just needs to get out. Mary Beth

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You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady?

No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings. I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post. This is a forum for discussion, venting etc… I get that… I just don’t know what’s changed in the atmosphere that so many people are taking things personally and fighting about things. *sigh*  maybe I just don’t get it? Sorry for bothering… kath

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Question:

There has been some pretty good fishing on the flats behind the mangroves a little farther south if you like light tackle action. Just remember that the bays tend to be a mile wide and a foot deep so bring a good pole.

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Gary, I’m taking my 27′ cruiser to Islamorado this coming Saturday for a week. Any comments on places to go or places to avoid while there? Thanks, TT

If you are passing by Miami, Dinner Key is a cool place to overnight. Pennekanmp is fun to dive at the Christ statue 25 07 3 . 80 17 8. In Islamorada: Holiday Isle is nut’s on the weekend  but fun. The World Wide Sportsman is the coolest store I’ve ever been in. Cool bar too. Good luck. Have fun….. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

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Well yeah….. Baca Grand now.

Is Boca Grande mainly tarpon?  And what would you consider the basic needs to tarpon fish there?  I hear you can land up to 200# ones. Captiva/Sanibel all the time. (Tween Waters) Flamingo. not now, unless your a blood doner. Palm Beach, Mosquito Lagoon, Islamorada. Have fun…… Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach

– While Genius and Stupidity have a lot in common.. One important difference to note is that Genius has its limits. Before you buy.

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Is Boca Grande mainly tarpon?  

No, But this time of year you’ll have a good chance of getting a big fish. And what would you consider the basic needs to tarpon fish there?

A guide the first time out.  Call Capt. Pete http://www.floridaflyfishing.com or try  http://www.bocagrandefishing.com/ The Pass is no place for beginers. It’s crowded and dangerous. You’ll also need an extra hand to run the boat. You can fish them off the beach on live/cutbait/ artificials /fly. I would suggest Johnson Shoals off Cayo Costa just south of the pass. I jumped a 125+ fish  (on fly) over Memorial day while drifting Captiva Pass. The fish came close to jumping in the boat. Scared the crap out of me. If you want to stay there, try the condos at the north end of the island. It’s my favorite place in the state. Have fun. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

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Any great places to visit and great fishing outings that others have done who would share them would be greatly appreciated.  Would love your input as I plan my summer boating trips this year and next.

Well yeah….. Baca Grand now. Captiva/Sanibel all the time. (Tween Waters) Flamingo. not now, unless your a blood doner. Palm Beach, Mosquito Lagoon, Islamorada. Have fun…… Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." I said that

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Gary, I’m taking my 27′ cruiser to Islamorado this coming Saturday for a week. Any comments on places to go or places to avoid while there? Thanks, TT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any great places to visit and great fishing outings that others have done who would share them would be greatly appreciated.  Would love your input as I plan my summer boating trips this year and next. Well yeah….. Baca Grand now. Captiva/Sanibel all the time. (Tween Waters) Flamingo. not now, unless your a blood doner. Palm Beach, Mosquito Lagoon, Islamorada. Have fun…… Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." I said that

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 I have been researching and planning for a few years and this weekend have finally landed the right boat for the right price.  I live in North Central FL and want to know the places to go and things to do with my new boat.  I have a Proline 190 CC with a 150hp Johnson. I have heard that Cumberland Island is a nice trip, Caladesi Island is nice.  I know that scalloping season starts up in July.  And have fished out of Cedar Key numerous times with friends. Any great places to visit and great fishing outings that others have done who would share them would be greatly appreciated.  Would love your input as I plan my summer boating trips this year and next. — While Genius and Stupidity have a lot in common.. One important difference to note is that Genius has its limits. Before you buy.

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Question:

Off the Patuxent River mouth we were seeing huge clouds of bluefish that would sometimes erupt from the water like bait, but they wouldn’t take any lure or fly that we were using. Got so tired of foul hooking we gave up. Were they balled up cause there were larger fish threatening the school? If so, what fish, larger blues or stripers. And how should be have fished for the larger fish? Bob

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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly BluesRevue wrote about "Great Balls of Bluefish": … Were they balled up cause

… Never heard the saying "ball of fish" until a few weeks ago, when a boatman on an Irish lake referred to a "ball of fish" (meaning a lot of brown trout).  Is it a common saying in the US?  And does it literally refer to a ball-shaped shoal? — Phil Jones South Wales, UK

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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly BluesRevue wrote about "Great Balls of Bluefish": Were they balled up cause Never heard the saying "ball of fish" until a few weeks ago, when a boatman on an Irish lake referred to a "ball of fish" (meaning a lot of brown trout).  Is it a common saying in the US?  And does it literally refer to a ball-shaped shoal?

I think "ball" in this context just refers to a mass of slashing fish in the middle of a "blitz", not the shape of their surroundings. /daytripper (now wondering if he should have defined "blitz" ;^)

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I think "ball" in this context just refers to a mass of slashing fish in the middle of a "blitz", not the shape of their surroundings. /daytripper (now wondering if he should have defined "blitz" ;^)

By great coincidence, I changed my screensaver today to the MS Scenes Undersea collection.  One of the pics can only be described as a "ball of fish"..!  I’ll post it to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. — Phil Jones

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Actually, a ball of fish usually refers to baitfish, which do tend "ball up" or school in the shape of a ball.  There are some great underwater photographs of this phenomenon–one recently in (yuck) Outside magazine.  I don’t imagine this is appropriate to schooling blues, unless they’re under attack from, say, tuna.  When they’re making the attack they tend to be far more random and not in any ordered formation. I suspect, too, that the usage of "ball of fish" in this case, just means a big slug of them–but the origin, I’m pretty sure, refers to the shape of a school of bait. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

Ha Paul, I want my money back. I bought a new outfit and went out and got skunked. I am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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got skunked. I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Love you Bill!!!!! You probably have more experience with both guides and lawyers, but I find it easies to find a competeant guide than it is a competeant lawyer. Care to comment? Big Dale

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LL Bean still has their warranty policy in place… Lifetime satisfaction guarantee If you break the rod on a trip, they’ll overnight fedex a replacement anwhere in the country.  You return the broken rod at your convenience. All free. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, well, well, So what do we flyfishers think of the new (and old) warranties? Orvis                25-years Loomis             Lifetime $45 exchange for new rod Scott                $20 Lifetime Winston           $25 Lifetime Sage               $20 Lifetime Etc. etc. etc. Just wondering, Paul

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault.  I remember that I took care of my rod, because if I broke it, I was  out X number of dollars.  I remember a time when you were responsible for your actions.  I remember when I didn’t do well in school, it was my fault, not society.  I remember breaking my arm in junior high school and not suing the school.  I remember a time when if you broke something, you stood up like a man and admitted it…. It’s amazing how rods are now "accidently" broken as opposed to how many were broken BEFORE the new warranties. Just my 2 cents. Flyguy Bill Kiene wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ha Paul, I want my money back. I bought a new outfit and went out and got skunked. I am going to take all these manufacturers to court. I think the government should step in and do something about this. You read the adds, buy a new fly fishing outfit, go done to the river and get skunked. Well, it’s not my fault, it’s my parents. They didn’t send me to an Orvis School when I was young. They made me fish with worms too. I think I will take them to court too. I think I will take the government to court too because they let me ’slip through the cracks’. I guess I am just a loser, but it’s not my fault. I think I will go have a tuna fish sand witch and watch David Letterman. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault

Geez, let’s not have too much pity for the poor manufacturers… The fly rod that you and I pay $650 for in the store, probably costs the manufacturer $50 in direct materials and labor.  And it makes the vendor probably 3x to 4x the profit per rod as a $200 rod. Some people probably won’t buy a super-premium rod because they’re afraid they’ll break it.  So by offering a no-fault warranty, the manufacturers get more folks to buy the highly profitable rods.  Really, it makes a lot of sense given the disparity between direct and retail costs. Especially now that the rod vendors are charging for warranty repairs (and offsetting most of the cost anyway), they’re laughing all the way to the bank. Michael

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You know, I remember the old days when if I screwed up, it was my fault Geez, let’s not have too much pity for the poor manufacturers… The fly rod that you and I pay $650 for in the store, probably costs the manufacturer $50 in direct materials and labor.  And it makes the vendor probably 3x to 4x the profit per rod as a $200 rod.

that very possibly true – check out George Gherke’s costing for his Bastard Rod – the fitting alone exceed $50. but, don’t forget it the manufacturer has to pay for a lot of other things beside direct material and labour. Anyone whose worked in a manufacturing environment can tell you overheads are very often more than direct manufacturing costs. Don’t forget as well that everyone along the way – the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer all have to make some sort of profit. For most products of this nature the mark up on the rod( the difference between the retail price and the wholessale price the retailer pays) is about 1/3 of the price you pay. So for a $650 rod the manufacturer may gets $425 in revenue. Ralph H

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but, don’t forget it the manufacturer has to pay for a lot of other things beside direct material and labour. Anyone whose worked in a manufacturing environment can tell you overheads are very often more than direct manufacturing costs. Don’t forget as well that everyone along the way – the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer all have to make some sort of profit.

Absolutely true, but it’s also my point. You can make the argument that it’s reasonable for a fly mfg. to charge $650 for a rod.  (Hey, no one’s forcing me to buy the damn thing, and the market also supplies pretty good rods at every price point from $19 up).  Lord knows, a lot of vendors with fancy names and fancy rods are only marginally profitable.  But the time to make the profit is on the initial sale and, hopefully,  the next sale a few years later from a satisfied customer upgrading to the same vendor’s latest and greatest. Repairs are a time when the vendor can make or break customer loyalty.  It’s simply not worth getting into a debate with the customer about who’s fault it was.  <<Was the ferrule defective, or had it loosened up on me while fishing?  Is it the fault of the vendor’s poor tolerances that the rod loosened up and then broke at the ferrule, or my sloppy fishing habits, for not checking them every once in a while?  It just makes good sense for the manufacturer to fix a rod at it’s marginal cost, and not mark it up.  Even if it truly is the customer’s fault.  Hey, we all make mistakes. Then you can argue whether, if the marginal cost is so low (say $20 for a section of a $600 rod), does it make sense to bill for it, or do you get even more than $20 worth of loyalty and repeat business to do it for "free". I don’t see this as a biggee…it’s close enough to $0 that I wouldn’t care if I felt it were my fault.  Of course, if it were truly a mfg. flaw, I’d be pissed off about paying even $20, much less $50. Michael

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Question:

Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Bill: By the way, I am totally satisfied with Orvis Battenkill 7/8 for my summer steelhead fishing (I use a 10 foot 7 weight rod). It can handle any steelhead under 20 pounds; I have never hooked bigger ones (Well, I might have, then they all broke off). And it is very affordable. Now I need to replace my Lamson LP-7, which I have used with a 15 foot Spey rod. I lost two hot steelhead last spring because the Lamson went free spooling. Do you think Battenkill 10/11 is a good replacement? It needs to hold at least 150 yards of 30 pound backing with a 80 feet 10 weight DT line. Shinji on the Sky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. — Gerald Strom University of Illinois at Chicago

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Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

cut it off…put the dry on you hatband of drying patch… if this makes your tippet too short then cut this off and replace it too… TimW

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Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

Hi Gerald First off there is no such thing as a dumb question.  That’s what this group is all about — questions and answers. When you want to change a fly just cut one off and tie on another.  There are special nippers made for this purpose OR if you don’t have one a small finger nail clipper will work just fine.  When I first started I used a finger nail clipper on a loop of old fly line around my neck for several years. There are several different knots used to tie on flies.  You can go to the library and find a book on fly fishing or check at your local fly shop.  There is a neat little book (about 3"x5") on knots available today.  I personally like the Uni Knot but there are other good knots as well.  Many of the fly line manufacturers include knot tying instructions with there fly line.  Also I have an old aluminum Perine fly box that has the knot tying instruction on the front of the box. Keep asking the questions and I’m sure you’ll find someone more experienced on this group who will help. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT(96 catalog)

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Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

I must admit that I have never thought about it till now.  basicly i cut (bite) the old one off,  I guess that this results in the tippet ( end of the leader) becomming shorter and shorter.   In the UK you can get in small "snap" links from Mustard which are designed for easy fly changing Julian

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Just cut fly off as close to hook as as possible then tie on new fly.Best to have someone show you improved clinch knot or uni knot

best of luck -jkralic

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Heck, if you haven’t caught the darn thing in a tree behind you, you can’t be that dumb… Just snip it off and buy lots of tippet.

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writes: Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this? Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

No need to apologize for your question.  the only stupid question is the one that doesn’t get asked.  Enjoyed the pun by the way ;^ When you want to change flies, you simply cut off the first one and tie on another. Eventually this will shorten your tippet (if you don’t lose it to a fly eating tree or bush first, or cast some wind knots into it), but then you cut that off and tie on a new piece.  Orvis has a waterproof knot booklet for about $5 that has the appropriate knots listed and how to tie them. Personally I use the Orvis knot to tie on most trout flies and a Trilene knot to tie on any fly large enough to pass the tippet through the eye twice (large streamers, bass flies, steelheadsalmon flies, saltwater flies).  On flies that I want to use a lot of action on I will often use a Duncan’s loop.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

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In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

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One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

Not a bad idea Chuck except for me personally I find it very difficult to  tie on those little pieces of tippet material while there is a feeding frenzy going on. For some reason my fingers and brain seem to disconnect while whatching trout splashing and jumping all around me, not to mention the problem of cold fingers or low light. I generally carry a range of leaders sizes 3x-6x pretied with 3 feet of tippet section done while at home whatching a fishing show or something. This allows me more time to fish and less aggravation on the water. I only tie on the water if I have to. Tight lines Russ

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(DLowe21757) writes: In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

Boy this can be a can of worms! Commercial knotless tapered leaders consist of three parts – butt section (which is heavy and level or very slightly tapered), the tapering section (which rapidly tapers down to your tippet size), and the tippet section (which is also level and the part that you tie onto the fly).  So your leader already has a tippet on it.  You can replace the tippet as needed as you break it off or cut it down from changing flies.  Much less expensive to tie on a new tippet section than to change an entire leader every time you mess up the tippet.  You can also change how your leader performs by cutting back or adding tippet.  If you add tippet you will get more slack out near the fly, if you cut back tippet you will get more power delivered to the fly resulting is less slack and more ease in turning over large flies or regular flies in windy conditions.  You can play around with the butt section in the opposite manner to accomplish the same thing, but that means tying two knots instead of one.  And of course if you really want to get carried away you can vary both to fine tune the leader to your needs. A good approximate guide to which tippet size to use is to divide the size of your fly by 3 and use the resultant number for your tippet X number. For instance: size 18 fly divided by 3 = 6X tippet, size 12 divided by 3 = 4X, size 16 divided by 3 = 5X and a little left over.  In slow clear water with spooky trout you may have to go one X smaller, and in fast pocket water you may be able to go one X larger.  Listen to what the fish say, they’ll tell you. Length of leader is more a function of the water type than anything else. We use longer leaders for greater subtlety (less obtrusive than the fly line) and more suppleness.  Long leaders – 9 to 12 ft.- are most commonly needed in slow clear water with spooky trout.  That is because the trout gets a long time to inspect your fly in slow water and are typically more critical of drag.  Short leaders – 6 to 7 1/2 ft. – are used in faster water for better control with typically larger flies in fast water conditions.  In fast water the trout gets only a short time to see your fly before he takes it or rejects it and there is not usually as much food available (harsher conditions) so he tends to be more opportunistic than in the slower water conditions.  Since we don’t need the added subtlety and suppleness of the longer leader in faster conditions we don’t use it. Always best to use the shortest heaviest leader you can get away with. Again listen to the trout.   If the trout aren’t taking your fly you probably need to go longer and finer.  Sometimes the shortest stoutest leader that will work is a 12 ft. 6X or 7X leader.                      Hope this helps,                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

Well now how do end the evening with a late strat fishing? Well by catch some real nice trout on dry flies. One redside was about 16/17 inches long on a large stonefly nymph. The rest were taken on the surface with a #14 & 16 Parachute Adams. I landed several redsides and cutthroat trout averaging about 10 inches to 14 inches. The fishing time was about 3:30 PM till dark. The place was from Ballenger put-in to Harvast Lane on the lower McKenzie River. I do believe that there are no hatchery fish in this section–so far. So all my trout were natives. The insects were hatching quite steadly all evening– oh! what a sunset last night. I saw several McKenzie caddis’s fluttering by, many BW Olives #14-18 (this is as close to bug ID as I’ll get.) Ther was also a nice spinner activity Western Red Quill #14-16, plus some PE duns #14-18 Lt Cahill will do just fine. Even though I am a giude on this river…this was a quiet trip for self. Fishing was really good. I mean Iwent to have a good time, and found just what I needed…fish and peace & solitude. I would recommend you fish the McKenzie this Spring… Ralph Glazier                          South Fork Fly Fishing, Inc                                        Alsea, OR.                                        1 541 487-7310        

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well now how do end the evening with a late strat fishing? Well by catch some real nice trout on dry flies. One redside was about 16/17 inches long on a large stonefly nymph. The rest were taken on the surface with a #14 & 16 Parachute Adams. I landed several redsides and cutthroat trout averaging about 10 inches to 14 inches. The fishing time was about 3:30 PM till dark. The place was from Ballenger put-in to Harvast Lane on the lower McKenzie River. I do believe that there are no hatchery fish in this section–so far. So all my trout were natives. The insects were hatching quite steadly all evening– oh! what a sunset last night. I saw several McKenzie caddis’s fluttering by, many BW Olives #14-18 (this is as close to bug ID as I’ll get.) Ther was also a nice spinner activity Western Red Quill #14-16, plus some PE duns #14-18 Lt Cahill will do just fine. Even though I am a giude on this river…this was a quiet trip for self. Fishing was really good. I mean Iwent to have a good time, and found just what I needed…fish and peace & solitude. I would recommend you fish the McKenzie this Spring… Ralph Glazier                          South Fork Fly Fishing, Inc                                       Alsea, OR.                                       1 541 487-7310        

Well, I certainly miss fishing in that area, and your message didn’t help any! Really, I enjoyed reading it.   I grew up in Eugene and lived there until I was about 28; used to do a lot of fishing around there.  Is the upper Alsea ( south fork, I think ) still good for little trout? I used tave fun fishing with a dropper there.  I frequently caught 2 fish at a time. Tight Lines, Jared Still, Oracle DBA RxNet, Division of Value Health "All opinions are mine, not my employers"

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