Question:

NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

Response:

where’s the fly fishing in this story? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

Response:

Question:

Tuesday morning found only RW, Bruce and me in camp.  At breakfast, we met Kerry Evans a roffer from Colorado.  We headed back to the Texas Hole to fish the riffles in front of the first handicap ramp.  I started fishing without Bruce directing me — caught nothing.  When he came down, he placed me at the side of the main current.  On my first cast I was into a nice fish and managed to land a 20 inch bow, again with beautiful colors.  After awhile, Bruce moved us upstream to Big Rock Hole and the main current of the river.  RW, Bruce and I took some beautiful fish here.  We also lost two for every one we landed — the current was quite strong and with iddybiddy hooks it was difficult to land these big fish.  One brought me downstream about 50 yards.  As I stumbled/waded over the slippery rocks, RW hollered, "Hey, bring us back some chips and salsa and a couple of beers!"  I managed to finally net this giant football and in my excitement  reviving the fish, my net floated away!   I broke for lunch, but the two river maniacs stayed and continued to catch fish.  I met them in the flats above the KP after lunch and couldn’t believe that I was catching 20 inch fish in 16 inch deep water!   I moved back to the Texas Hole after awhile, and rigged up for some dry fly fishing.  I tied on a size 22 Adams parachute (Forty’s SJ fly) and cast to rising fish.  I managed to hook a few, but never landed one.  RW and Bruce collected me just before dark and we made our way back.  I left them at the parking lot and went back to the former Clave Central.  It was a lonely dinner and evening with no roffians about.  I fell asleep at 7:30 and awoke at 5:30. Apparently I was tired.  Happy, but very tired. Dave LaCourse Dave LaCourse

Response:

(snip great report) Apparently I was tired.  Happy, but very tired. Dave LaCourse

Now THAT is the way to finish out a road trip!  :-) — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Dave, i couldn’t imagine a better day than tuesday.  you caught more fish than i ever did in my first few days on that river.  it is fun in that current by the big rock – we lost several more each than we landed.  steve’s side is real tough because the fish are there, but you’ve only got about ten feet square of reasonable water around you and if the fish leaves the area, your chances are slim.  nice also that we all tended to pop out of the fish rather than break off, although our pockets were picked a few times each.  the flies are so small, louie thought he broke off the entire rig in a pig once, only to say "wait, i’ve still got one fly… no, maybe i’ve got both… yep, i’ve bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

Response:

Nice report Dave, thanks.  I share your feelings about catching beat up hatchery trout, even though they may be large ones taking tiny flies.  That’s what happens when a place becomes popular.  Keep all your honey holes a secret or they may turn out to be like the kiddy pool.  There is no substitute for wild trout. Ernie

Tuesday morning found only RW, Bruce and me in camp.  At breakfast, we met Kerry Evans a roffer from Colorado.

<great trip report snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave LaCourse

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[deleted] There is no substitute for wild trout.

The last week of November found me in a tourist town at the gates of a National Park near where I live.  There was a pond and a parking lot. In the parking lot was a large lit sign on a pole which read "Catch Wild Trout". And so I am left to conclude agreement with you on your sentiment Ernie. The one possible exception being the imagination. Your pal, — TimW Halfordian Golfer & Urban Forager It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

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Question:

wu-name?

Your name, if you were a member of the Wu-Tang Clan, which presumably you’re not. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you. — Halfordian Golfer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3…7 [snipped] 8. Did verse, naked. That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you. Thanks, I think… Although something tells me I missed a smiley or two somewhere in there. –Steve

ZBone!!! –waldo <g ps, i don’t recall ever seeing timbo use smileys….

Response:

A couple of hours is no exception for me.. but then again, juggling the letters ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ can obviously take some time. Here are the results: Rearranging the letters of ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ gives: Oh God! frictionless fury.

what we all wish, in tender moments of passion, to hear screamed <g waldo

Response:

1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3…7 [snipped] 8. Did verse, naked. That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you.

Thanks, I think… Although something tells me I missed a smiley or two somewhere in there. –Steve

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

[solution snipped]

I can’t decide what’s more geeky. The fact that I spent an hour doing those dorky (that’s for you, Mike!) anagrams or the fact that you guys (Paul and Joe) solved them in half that time. –Steve (feeling progressively worse about that Amish joke)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native       7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

3 (you)       6 (me) /daytripper (who the heck is 5?)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native       7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

1 (wayno) 3 (you)       4 (louie) 6 (me) /daytripper (who *is* number 5?)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk!   6. So data-native       7. Never, baard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

1 (wayno) 3 (you)       4 (louie) 6 (me) 7 (rw) 8 (snedeker) /daytripper (MS Anti-Anagram 2K beta tester)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. Cool. | 1. Wayne Harrison 2. Walt Winter 3. Steve Zimmerman 4. Dave LaCourse 5. Ken Fortenberry 6. Dave Tatosian 7. Steve Barnard 8. David Snedeker

Oh, a couple of sharpies, eh? /daytripper (I’d just gotten Forty, too! 8-P)

Response:

I don’t know which generator Zimbo tried.  Go to http://www.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/anagrams.html and try your name.  The "Z" will mess you up.  Try your full middle name to get more to choose from.  Vangelic Surgeon is pretty cool. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

Cool. | | | | | | | | | | | | 1. Wayne Harrison 2. Walt Winter 3. Steve Zimmerman 4. Dave LaCourse 5. Ken Fortenberry 6. Dave Tatosian 7. Steve Barnard 8. David Snedeker

Response:

1 Wayne Harrison 2 Walt winter 3 Stephen Zimmerman 4 Dave Lacourse 5 Ken Fortenberry 6 dave tatosian 7 Steve Banard 8 dave snedeker

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! Steve Zimmerman 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

Zimbo writes: 4. Use a ‘Clave rod.

Shouldn’t that read:  Use a ‘clave, Rod. And it was the easiest one. Dave L.

Response:

That was the first one I got. I saw reefer and your name didn’t fit… Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. 3 (you) 6 (me) /daytripper (who the heck is 5?)

Response:

I can’t decide what’s more geeky. The fact that I spent an hour doing those dorky (that’s for you, Mike!) anagrams or the fact that you guys (Paul and Joe) solved them in half that time.

It was just timing.   I uncharacteristically found myself sitting with my laptop in front of the TV where SWMBO was watching "Judging Amy".   It was either work anagrams or have my brains sucked out of my head. Joe F.

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin

Wayno. 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man!

Steve Zimmerman I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…) Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

I took the names in Zimbo’s challenge and plugged them into the anagram generator. It came up with Wayne Harrison as an anagram for the first one. However, it didn’t find Walt Winter or even Winter out of the second one. My spell checker wants to replace Zimbo with Zombie or Zima Paul (If Zimbo drinks Zima he’ll be a Zombe)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know which generator Zimbo tried.  Go to http://www.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/anagrams.html and try your name.  The "Z" will mess you up.  Try your full middle name to get more to choose from.  Vangelic Surgeon is pretty cool. JR I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

Response:

I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

There’s a site, www.anagramgenius.com, that will take your text and e-mail you the anagrams.   It’s a one-at-a-time thing (they’re really just trying to sell you the software), but it’s a freebie.   Depending on the backlog, the response time can vary, but ten minutes is the longest I’ve waited. wu-name? Joe F.

Response:

I took the names in Zimbo’s challenge and plugged them into the anagram generator. However, it didn’t find Walt Winter or even Winter out of the second one.

no big surprise…. some would argue i’ve been lost for years <g waldo

Response:

A couple of hours is no exception for me.. but then again, juggling the letters ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ can obviously take some time. Here are the results: Rearranging the letters of ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ gives: Y-fronts if slouchier dog.              Y-fronts if slouchier god. Shod frostily configure.                Offishly scourged in rot. Rot or offishly seducing.               Scruffy, loonier dog shit. Roguishly sod off cretin.               Configure or filthy sods. Filthy scourger if on sod.              Y-fronts dig slouchier of. Turnoffs choose rigidly.                Officers don’t roguishly. His good if cruel Y-fronts.             Offishly courting doers. Odoriferous lynch gifts.                Sod! filthy of in scourger. Horrify seduction flogs.                Horridly scoffing to use. Unity girlhood scoffers.                Scoff ugly dishonorer it. Scourged or offishly tin.               It nor offishly scourged. Good! frostily fine crush.              If huge Y-fronts discolor. Scoff guilty dishonorer.                Offishly erotic grounds. Offishly groins to crude.               Roguishly tired on scoff. Heroic of dungs frostily.               Is godly, heroic turnoffs. I scourged offishly torn.               Offishly seducing rotor. Roguishly scoffed in rot.               Roguishly not dire scoff. Ghouls dirty on officers.               Offishly or erotic dungs. Floor touchy frigidness.                Ugh! frostily consider of. Gosh! frostily if on crude.             Frostily hogs if on crude. Gosh! dicier Y-fronts foul.             Fifty grouchiness drool. Oh God! is cruel if Y-fronts.           Forged foolish scrutiny. Rude or offishly costing.               Is rude scoffing or hotly. Cushy, ironfisted or flog.              Curses! off tiny girlhood. Ugly, horrific, often sods.             Historic guy of fondlers. Confused so filthy rigor.               Offishly or corniest dug. Offishly. Scourger in dot.              Offishly counted rigors. Goof if shirty scoundrel.               Of or shy cunts glorified. Frostily hogs in crude of.              Heroics dung frostily. Of. Grouchier of sits fondly.               Fondly if sorriest cough. Y-fronts foul dicier hogs.              Y-fronts if his good ulcer. Lousy, hot, direr scoffing.             Scoff sure tiny girlhood. Soften ugly, horrific sod.              Orgy of if this scoundrel. Scourged of or filthy sin.              Ignored offishly courts. Rude gits croon offishly.               Horridly scoff to genius. Curse It! off shy drooling.             Filthiness or goofy crud. Fondly if to his scourger.              Noisy or frightful codes. If the ground-floor cissy.              Sniff courtesy girlhood. Strongly officious herd.                Curse It! dog nor offishly. Curse It! god nor offishly.             Ridge offishly contours. Offishly roosting crude.                Rude git croons offishly. Horridly scoffing to sue.               Glorified or cushy fonts. Touchers glorify so find.               Scourger if fondly hoist. Stuffy heroics drooling.                Gosh! Y-fronts ridicule of. Y-fronts ridicule of hogs.              Rigid Y-fronts chose foul. Oh God! frictionless fury.              Sly touchers on frigid of. Odorously cringes fifth.                Sod! scourger if filthy no. If filthy donor scourges.               Coo! fourthly. Frigidness. Shifty drools configure.                Thirdly if on of scourges. Roguishly scoff not ride.               Gosh! crude of in frostily. Frostily choirs on fudge.               Fifty sorcerous holding. Fifty or old grouchiness.               Ouch! frigid Y-fronts lose. Forty if old grouchiness.               Tiny of if rough scolders. Turnoff chooses rigidly.                Off ugly, horrid sections. Horrific young sods left.               Scourged ‘n’ offishly riot. Recording outs offishly.                Offishly courted groins. Offishly crude or on gits.              Flies horrify good cunts. Good! scoff slithery ruin.              Do our slithery scoffing. Roguishly tried on scoff.               Cushion frostily forged. Curse It! if hogs or fondly.            Hedonistic or fury flogs. Off this lousy recording.               Let’s! horrid you scoffing. Directory hogs sinful of.               Dire turnoffs hog cosily. Dirty off slouchier song.               Rudely or to his scoffing. Shiftier, scornful goody.               Ugly, horrific soft nodes. Glory courts fiendish of.               Sorriest young off child. Offishly reducing so. Rot.              Offishly got so incurred. Shortly if so configured.               Scourged if on if shortly. Shortly scourged if in of.              Roguishly if forced snot. Tin or roguishly scoffed.               It nor roguishly scoffed. Roguishly do off cretins.               Soft! roguishly nice ford. Glorified so cushy front.               Shirty, configured fools. Shy scoffing or dire lout.              Fondly, is grouchier soft. Grouchier sod on stiffly.               Secondly rigorous fifth. Hoist or rudely scoffing.               Ugly, horrific of tends so. Filthy or configured SOS.               Filthy foods in scourger. If scourges or filthy don.              Filthy scourges rid on of. Good! filthy furies scorn.              It croons offishly urged. Crooners dug offishly. It.              Offishly. Rigor to dunces. Hourly scoffing so tired.               Slithery scoffing odour. Honestly or frigid focus.               Of in of scourges thirdly. Greyhounds off clitoris.                So touchy of girlfriends. Hysteric if fool grounds.               Rigorous if soft lynched. Touch! of snores frigidly.              Horrific guess to fondly. Is hot scourger if fondly.              Scruffy, idle or shooting. Stuffy dishonorer logic.                Is huge if cold or Y-fronts. Good! icier Y-fronts flush.             Y-fronts foul heroics dig. Ferocity dishonors gulf.                This loony drug officers. Tiny, foolish, crude frogs.             Yes scoffing horrid lout. Ghouls cry ironfisted of.               Dirtying so or foul chefs. In godly, sorcerous fifth.              On stodgy, horrific fuels. Young, horrific felt sods.              Offishly, is good current. I don’t offishly. Scourger.             Offishly do tin scourger. Offishly sign or to crude.              If of or shortly seducing. I scoffed roguishly torn.               Ghostly of if so incurred. Good! cushy or fine flirts.             Fools if touchy grinders. Slouchy, ironfisted frog.               Horny of flogs crudities. Frigid, uncool shyster of.              Frostily forced housing. Oh No! scourged if firstly.             Not defy so horrific slug. Curses! on fifty girlhood.              Is huge Y-fronts frolic do. Y-fronts if so rogue child.             Consider if frosty ghoul. I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…) There’s a site, www.anagramgenius.com, that will take your text and e-mail you the anagrams.   It’s a one-at-a-time thing (they’re really just trying to sell you the software), but it’s a freebie.   Depending on the backlog, the response time can vary, but ten minutes is the longest I’ve waited. wu-name? Joe F.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That fish pictuer is great Huggy Bear thanks alot.    I kept lookin in that windows help place an the missus helped an I figgered out how to do signatures.   It wasnt easy an it didnt work at first neither.  I hadda put everything in that notepad there an then saved it to the hard thing an then we hadda tell the computar to use the stuff we saved.   The pictuer looks better when we look at it with note pad.  It looks kinda crunched with this Out Look here.  Lemme know if it looks ok I dont know what the problem is. An like Bulb an some of them other meowers was sayin I should do I added some stuff after the pictuer.   Its some old stuff from a couple years ago when I first tangled with them Coleman guacamoles.  Im gonna keep addin stuff as I get enuff time.  I been so busy Im lucky I got this done. I wanna end up with everybody that sees my stuff understandin that theres a buncha bums and punks out there an everything to do with nature is goin down the crapper an nobody gives a rats ass neither an everybody thinks censerin is good. Anyways lemme know if it looks ok Hey I forgot to ask I seen replys to me by that Millenanal Catastrophy there.   Is he the same as Medical Catastrophy or are they related somehow?

Medical Catastrophe was the False One. Only I am licensed to speak the word of the one true FLUFFY. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again Huggy Bear that great! Tony G. —                                                                      |                                                                      |     3 1 3 3 t                                                        |                               “-, ______,,–,,__                    |              ,-’““’ ‘ ‘                   _/     ‘.    [%%|     ‘|’ `,      ,-’“’ ‘                        _- _-/ ===   (%%)    J L/  “`,__/`’ ‘   _                        _-     ===_,,–`-_/     |“/   |                        /J     |`/     |/ Heres some old stuff  to the Coleman board there you guys never seen This is some bum tryin to get me thrown off a that Coleman board there.

Question:

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My turn guys, Mike, no problem with your views.  The major thing is that these two are on the air as CANADIAN SPORTFISHING.  You want a couple of law breakers, convicted, going on the air as AMERICAN SPORTFISHING? You, me, Jeff, joe blow down the street make a mistake it’s one thing.  A professional representing his/her country makes a mistake in his professional area that’s a little different. We all worry about the loss of jobs to the innocent, that’s the biggest heartbreak of the whole thing.  Unfortunately this is part of putting your eggs in the wrong basket.  Life does go on.  For this to happen saddens me as I am sure it does the other members of the group behind getting Canadian Sportfishing off the air and the magazine off the shelves.  I know a lot of magazine folks, if one of these people that are in fact innocent and have the proper and necessary credentials writes me that they lost a job over this, I for one will help them in any way I can.  Mark, Rick, Steve, Dan, expect a call. Concerned Canadian — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

Response:

Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia

Well Done Bill. This is the response that will infuriate sponsors, and eventually lead to the removal of these donkeys. You have taken the high road and I am sure that avid anglers will be more inclined to read your material as a result.

Response:

Geez, Mike!  If I’d known that we were *both* longwinded, I may not have touched this post.<grin  I know you’ve said you would rather not say more about this.  I’ll try not to drag you back in by asking questions. And. I’ll try to be brief. I said I’ll try.<grin My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve.

This thing actually started up back around April or so.  I think they did just as you have stated and it sort of worked.  The smell never really left entirely.  I think folks felt the way we do when we wake up after election night to find the "other guy" won: Well, I did what I could.  But they may have been given a chance to cast their ballot in an open atmosphere this time.  Last time, the network was the only one to see the tally. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree.

All of these e-mail addresses were obtained from the companies involved.  They aren’t going to individuals.  This is one of their normal methods of receiving feedback. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc,…

I admit that this does bother me.  These two will go down.  But, not because they are innocent of any wrong doing and somehow a handfull of us decided to destroy them for no reason. I have been unable to find any support whatsoever anywhere in Canada.  This has all been a sham from the getgo.  The network sites overwhelming viewer support as one of the main criteria for keeping the show.  I have asked repeatedly to have the response file made public.  I already know what’s in it.  The same response I’m getting on the street, from industry pros and here on the Internet.   selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders.

Actually the result would be the same.  The magazine and the show would fold if the hosts didn’t have licenses.  However, we have no such recourse anyway.  I wish we did, Mike.  It looks like they are about to topple anyway.  I’ve had one *unconfirmed* report from British Columbia that one distributor has pulled their magazine off the shelf.  I hear "rumours" that they have slipped from fighting for top spot to as low as possibly fifth in the ratings expected out very soon.  Couple this with a renewed letter writing campaign to the sponsors and it doesn’t bode well for the boys. indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong.

Funny you should say that, Mike.  Just yesterday, I was going over my extensive writings on the subject.  As near as I can tell, I’m safe.  I always try to be careful.  Although there may have been an occassion or two when you wouldn’t have been very proud of me.  For the most part, I try to keep my cool. I believe that most everyone has done the same as best they could. You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )

I doubt that, Mike.  You probably have more correct info in your posession than the average Canuck. the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me.

We had two occasions when H&I agreed to take us on.  First, they were to newsgroups.  Fair enough.  We made arrangements to move it over to a Web based discussion board out of the U of Toronto.  At the elenvth hour, they backed out.  Then they said they would answer our e-mail instead. That was about a week and a half ago.  We’re still waiting for at least one of the dozens of questions to be answered. I know what your concern is and I share it.  We tried for weeks to get them to face us.  We would have preferred it if they would stand up and face us like men.  So, if the point of view is one sided, it’s their choice.  We can’t force them to participate.  However, they continue to actively use the mainstream media to get their version of events to a very wide audience.  This is not an attack.  It’s a counter-attack. The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form.

You know, Mike.  I agree with a lot of what you say in this entire post.  But, I don’t see this from the same perspective.  I don’t think we are attempting to increase the penalties for the crimes.  This is about a *big* money business trying to hold onto it’s cash cow.  We are the consumers of the show.  Or, we used to be.  They want to sell us hats, t-shirts, coffee mugs, magazines and seminars.  This doesn’t even include what the sponsors want to sell us.  If some half hour sitcom did something totally outrageous, people would organize a boycott and be writing the Network.  I don’t see this campaign any differently. Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion.

In dollar terms they paid the max.  It was quite an eye opener for me to see how incredibly low that max is.  I was expecting it to be into the thousands for each.  Only $800.00 per.  These guys are loaded.  It’s a little like handing out a thousand dollar fine to some mega pro athlete.  It might have hurt you and I.  But, it wouldn’t really phase these lads.  But, at least they got the max.  As they should. apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know.

Of course one need not break the law to incur the wrath of the viewing public.  No one wants to be mislead or played for an imbecile. …. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid.

I guess that will depend on how the press chooses to play this…which 30 second sound bite becomes the rage on the six o’clock news. For the reasons already outlined above I am against using the internet in this way.  That is why we have laws.

So then, can we agree to disagree?  Oops!  I said I wouldn’t ask questions.  I’ll accept no reply as a Yes.<grin I would wish however that disagreements addressing my published or stated  opinions be factual and sensible, ( like the post from Jeff for instance ) and not drift off into insulting or silly

You are on my Xmas list, Mike.<smile I will follow developments carefully on this case, as I really am very interested in seeing how it progresses and the results if any. ….

Actually, there have been a couple of intersting little things happen behind the scenes this week.  It’s a little premature to be talking about it yet.  This Internet thing may be more effective than I’d hoped.  Coupled of course with widespread disdain amongst amateurs and industry people alike. Thanks, Mike.  I don’t share all your views on this topic.  But, I understand them.                 later,                         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike.

Hi Jeff, thanks for the interesting and informative post. I did not recognise Paul from his address, and I am somewhat wary of information or appeals etc when I do not know the source. Paul very kindly replied immediately to my first post per e-mail with his address etc. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law… Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure.

My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree. As I understand it according to the information I have been given these two hosts were the guilty parties. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc, and I think the suggested method is not selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders. Private and direct e-mails to sponsors or other interested parties might also result in libel suits or similar for those people who do it, depending of course on the content, which would have to be very carefully worded indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,… I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me.

You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )  I am not suggesting that anybody has made any attempts to mislead or anything, but I think there is a considerable difference between discussing the relative merits of fly rods, or flies or whatever, which may result in somebody getting flamed, and using the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril.

The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment.

A criminal act is a criminal act, and should be punished as such, however here we are talking about a fairly minor criminal act which has engendered a lot of emotions and public feeling.  It is wrong in my opinion to allow punishments etc to be affected in this way by force of public opinion. As far as I am aware a court in Canada ( and most other free countries ) is obliged to find its conclusions and sentences without fear or favour. This is not the case with a large group of anglers on the internet who may have the power to hand out further punishment irrespective of the consequences, and with no control. Also probably biased because of the fact that most are sensible caring anglers who find such behaviour atrocious, and in consequence want to see heavier punishments handed out. ( Campaigning for a correct punishment is something else again, if the MNR can be persuaded to use their powers correctly then this is OK in my opinion ). I am not suggesting that anybody look the other way , and I do not in any way condone acts of this nature. When however people start comparing this sort of thing with rapists, as opposed to serial rapists and other obvious silliness then I think the whole sense of proportion has gone overboard, and that in itself is a good reason for taking no further action, as the anger and sense of injustice expressed here is in no relation to the original crime, and would inevitably result in a far greater punishment than would be fair. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there.

Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion. I will admit that this sort of thing  is often the case with celebrities or very rich people, they can usually buy or barter a better deal than joe public generally, either with money or their fame. This is of course wrong, but I dont see what I or anybody else can do about it, apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two.

I appreciate your feelings and sentiments here fully. From what I have heard ( although a lot of it was purely personal insults towards these guys  and not sensible discussion, so is difficult to evaluate ) these guys were a bit of a sad joke as fishermen and hosts anyway. So I find it unlikely that other sensible  fishermen will take much notice of them, and I do not for one second believe that other fishermen wherever they may be will tar other Canadians with the same brush.  The general non angling public is unlikely to be much affected as they wont watch such shows anyway. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid. Similar cases have happened here, … read more »

Response:

All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 …

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

 Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

Response:

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin                         Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for

Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law…

Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,…

I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet.

And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril. a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life,

Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two. integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

Of course, each person has to decide for themselves.  I absolutely disagree that this is misuse of the internet.  Since the Canadian mainstream press have so far given these fellas free reign to spew forth their deception since the guilty pleas were entered, what choice do we have?  This is the one medium where we can say our piece to a reasonably wide audience.  To my way of thinking, this is the perfect use of this medium.  We aren’t slandering these two.  We are countering their deceipt with the facts.  These guy have lawyers with the Midas touch. They are not about to let us liable them.  What the readers do about it, is their decision and no one else’s.  I am not offended by those who choose not to participate.  But, I want to be sure that whatever the decision, it is based on fact and not fiction.         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

                <snip

I think the analogy is they couldn’t find their behinds with both hands. — Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

Whoa Mikey….Lighten up, I don’t think Norm was intending to personally insult. He seems to have brought up some good thought-provoking questions to your original post. OK the rapist point cut a little deep, but everything else was succinct and non-inflammatory. I accept your decision to not join in the boycott, its each angler’s personal choice. I may not agree with it, but I’ll defend your right to it. For my own thoughts, these Bozos gotta go. That they are still producing this inept show is unbelievable. These clowns couldn’t catch a fish in the wilderness to save their own lives (besides they could go for months on the fat reserves these porkers have built up). I say well done, "concerned Canadian" at Fintastic fin mounts (wink, wink), the sooner they exit the TV world the better for all of us. "ambassadors of the sport and conservation" indeed…..

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None other, Dave.  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

The very same.  No problem with those bozos out here.  They were dropped from the cable system here a long time ago.  Rarely have I seen two more inept hosts.  I guess their ethics are of the same calibre.  Have no fear, friends to the north, I never did think these two represented Canadian sportfishing or sportsmanship in any way, shape or form.  I have fished with too many really good fishermen up there the believe that.  Still I appreciate that it upsets you. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

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I have seen several posts on this ng concerning the fishing show. I agree with Mr. Connor. The best way to get rid of a show is not to watch it or write about it. It will be off the air soon enough.

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Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

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    I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

                ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline

                ((( huge snip )))

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As I live the UK I havent seen the programme that you describe, but if the angling shows in the UK are anything to go by, the presenters are all jerks anyway who are only in it for the money (singing the praises of whichever tackle manufacturer gave them a freebie that week ! Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht                 ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline                 ((( huge snip )))

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<much good stuff snipped

                   <snip I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you

Bravo, Mike.   Some restraint is in order.  Sure what they did is despicable.  Easy enough to deal with.  Television is the greatest democracy going and you vote every day, every time– with the on/off switch.    I have seen this show.  These two are first class bozos and the show is poorly produced. I don’t watch it any more.  And I think, at least here in the States, there may be some others who feel the same way. It is no longer on my cable system. I worked for a TV network many years ago.  I was there when Wild Kingdom had to show a disclaimer at the end of the show which has now become familiar on a lot of "reality shows" be they nature, fishing, or hunting. It says: Scenes whether actual or recreated depict actual events."  This was supposed to let the audience know that some of the scenes were "staged" but were supposed to depict things that actually happen in nature.  It was, nevertheless, a shock to many viewers to learn that what they were watching was not 100%  "real".  That’s because the show gave the impression that everything was "real".   I have a feeling that most of the fishing shows could use this kind of disclaimer.  I know of one production where the crew arrives several days in advance and pre-fishes, often capturing and caging fish that are later used in the production whent he "star" arrives for shooting.  I resent this because there is nothing to reveal to the viewer that "it’s a fake".   Sooner or later, people get fed up with these shenanigans and the people who perpetrate them get their comeuppance– the audience abandons them and the show goes off the air.  It just takes more time and is less dramatic than "executing" the perpetrators. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.  Too many spammers out there.

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Their names weren’t Red and Harold by any chance? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world.

<snipped for brevity

Response:

Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

What was that supposed to mean? Gentlemen & Ladies, You must be a very concerned Canadian indeed to go to all this trouble to get these people off the air. I have heard quite a bit about this case already and many anglers are disgusted by it, judging by what I have heard. However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for people we dont even know.  

Agreed Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law in order to further their own silly greed for fame and money, or whatever.  

I don’t think it’s so drastic a measure, it’s done all the time. What "damage" are you suggesting might be caused? I am a passionate fisherman and find the sort of thing these people did very naughty indeed, but calling down the wrath of the combined angling internet on their heads in order to ruin them seems going a bit far.

I’m also a passionate fisherman but don’t find the proposed action going to far at all. Presumably they have already been punished by a court of law if they were convicted as you say, and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence, this alone ought to deter them from any further transgressions, and presumably will stop many people from watching their show ( or it might even have the reverse effect, who knows in this crazy world ? ).

Possibly I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. If these guys  were rapists or something then I might be moved to agree with you, but what they did is in my opinion a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing,

so apparently you are suggestion that if there is a greater crime, you shouldn’t punish the lesser crimes?   Would your defence for a rapist be to claim he wasn’t as bad as a serial rapist? where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, which would rather put the kybosh on a career in angling anyway.  

now you are contradicting yourself or don’t you believe in your  own laws? Is this not the case in Canada ?   I rather doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

I disagree. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise,

like what? and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

I respect your opinion but on the contrary, I believe the internet is a good medium for this kind of thing. — Best regards, Norman Hirsch                   Phone: 212-304-9660         NH&A                                Fax:   212-304-9759 New York, NY 10034 USA          URL: http://www.nha.com

Response:

Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world. We have written letters in attempts to get the hosts to answer direct questions, they refuse to address the issue.  We have written letters in an attempt to get the show cancelled with the answer that it will remain on the air until "more negative response" is received. Host, Henry Waszczuk, was convicted of fishing bass out of season.  Both Waszczuk and co-host, Italo Labignas, were convicted of to joint charges of hooking fish in the body to so they could re-hook them in the mouth and film their retrieval for television.  Waszczuk was also charged with fishing in a sanctuary. Article available at: http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/archive/html/1998/04/16/fish980416a.html The name of the show is Canadian Sportfishing, it is aired on TSN, The Sports Network.  They also publish a magazine called Canadian Sportfishing. Post your views at: http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/FUN/Fish.html or news.can.rec.fishing We request that you assist us in getting these "anglers" off the air. Please write Rick Brace at the Sports Network(address below) requesting the show be cancelled.  Please write, e-mail or fax the sponsors (listed below) to pull their sponsorship of convicted fishing law violators. Please boycott their magazine. Thank you for your assistance. Concerned Canadian The Sports Network Rick Brace. Web Site URL            http://www.tsn.ca/ Audience Relations      416 490-7030 Canadian Sportfishing SPONSORS LIST Ford of Canada 1-800-565-FORD (3673)

Question:

I would appreciate info as to whether there is bonefishing (and/or flyfishing for other species) on Jamaica. Thanks in advance. Brad Hall

Response:

"they" say there is no fly fishing in jamaica. The truth is is that there are small flats all over the place with lots of good potential. Montego bay itself has lots of tarpon. E.G. The road from Montego bay to Ocho Rios runs along the north shore and you can stop just about anywhere and see narrow flats bordered from the ocean by low reef that are easy and accesible. Don’t be adfraid to stop at the roadside jerk stands or bars. They look like shacks, but the people are great , the food is good and the fishing is right there. Take your stuff and look around. I. Clair

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Question:

For those that have written the group and me personally asking about water conditions I send this updated report (by the way, I don’t mind in the least getting the queries). Got three trout today with a completely new method of dry fly fishing. There I was standing  (or at least trying to) in four feet of water on a sand bar that, to my certain knowledge, has been dry, year round, for at least the last six years. The creek is small but at times has produced the occasional 18 inch brown some smaller rainbows and the occasional cut throat or two. This new method consists of casting a dry up stream. letting it hit the water and race back towards you in the current. The three fish I caught had broken their necks trying to get the fly as it went past them at somewhere around forty five mph. Their bodies were then recovered some one and a half miles down stream by an accomplice. Lolo Mt.

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Question:

My wife and I attended a 4-day Orvis flyfishing class at Clearwater House in July five years ago.  We had Orvis instructors (Dan Gracia, who posts to this group, was one) rather than the Clearwater House guides, but the "hearsay" I have since picked up from time to time has been positive.  I can attest that the accomodations are nice, the location is great, and that when we were there the food was excellent.  If you go, please tell me how it turned out.                        Dopug Larson, Glendale, CA

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I also cannot say enough about Clearwater House.  I’ve stayed there three times before and have booked two classes there for the upcoming year.  The staff and guides are excellent!  The Area is beautiful, and the house itself has a terrific "homey" feeling.  If you’re thinking of staying there … do it! Kim Woodward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food. Thanks!  S. Brainerd

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(Sherry Brainerd) writes: If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food.

We run some of our schools at the Clearwater House and I have to tell you the place is first rate.  It’s basically a bed and breakfast type place that caters to fly fishers and serves all meals, not just breakfast.  Noel and company set entirely too good a table and the setting is really pretty – nestled in between Mt Shasta and Mt. Lassen.  Last year had a friendly raven (the bird) that would fly down to your feet and walk around with you for a while.  I reached out towards it and it tried to remove my wedding ring off of my finger with its beak.  Lot’s of wildlife such as deer, osprey, Canada geese, muskrat, otters, etc.  Good fishing is right out the back door and you can fish Hat Creek, The Pit River, Fall River, the McCloud River or float tube if you like up at Lake Manzanita.  Great spot.  All of Dick’s guides are top rate.  If you have a copy of the latest California Fly Fisher, the young lady on the cover is not quite as young as she looks.  Marishka is ~20 and went through Dick’s apprentice guide program a couple of years ago.  She still guides for him periodically and she is an accomplished fly fisher, fly tyer, and guide.  Don’t hesitate to ask about the various guides specialties as they bring a wide variety of techniques to fishing the available water.  I’ve actually stayed in the house twice in the last 5 years, and it’s a far cry from the "guides ghetto" (next to the their tackle shop) where I usually bunk.  It is the only Orvis Endorsed Lodge in California.  If you get a chance to go, GO! Don’t eat too much and watch out for that bottomless jar of homemade chocolate chip or oatmeal raisin cookies.                                                           Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food. Thanks!  S. Brainerd

Response:

If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food.

Nothing but good things to say about Dick Galland and Clearwater. I stayed there many years ago before the present arrangement (with cooking and all) but even then, thought the hospitality and advice was excellent. I see Dick occassionally when walking the path near his place while fishing the waters nearby.                 Draper, Utah Wherever you go….. There you will be

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Question:

Hey John Fereira!    My news server has been out for three days and I just noticed on the news.groups that a CFV has started for flytying. Has it been posted here on ROFF?    This is the time folks! You don’t have to discuss it any more, just vote. I’ve sent in my vote and received a reply that it has been counted. Keep your feet dry, — lukn4fish Bob San Jose, Ca

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Hey John Fereira!   My news server has been out for three days and I just noticed on the news.groups that a CFV has started for flytying. Has it been posted here on ROFF?   This is the time folks! You don’t have to discuss it any more, just vote. I’ve sent in my vote and received a reply that it has been counted. Keep your feet dry,

Yes, it was posted here, in rec.outdoors.fishing, and in news.groups. I vote YES for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying or I vote NO for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying as the only line in the text of the message. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I will be taking a two week trip to the yukon canoeing down the Yukon river this summer and would like to know if anyone has done this before. I would like to fish for grayling, artic char etc and would appreciate hearing from anyone what flies & methods i should use. If anyone has done this trip fishing or not, please drop me a line

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be taking a two week trip to the yukon canoeing down the Yukon river this summer and would like to know if anyone has done this before. I would like to fish for grayling, artic char etc and would appreciate hearing from anyone what flies & methods i should use. If anyone has done this trip fishing or not, please drop me a line

Response:

My Name: My, this reminds me of an incident that I wittnessed while I was stationed at Galena Air Force Station in 1963/64.  Galena is located on the banks of the Yukon river in central Alaska. I and some friends were drinking beer and cooking hamburgers/hotdogs one afternoon when we spied a canoe pulling up to shore where we were. As soon as the canoe was pulled up on shore the two occupants split at a trot in different directions without saying a word to us or each other. We got a good laugh out of this and continued eating and drinking. The next day I talked with one of the canoeists and he said that they had seen so much of each other and hardly no one else that they were ready to pitch in and fight each other and had been at each other’s throat for a while.  I guess they finally settled their differences as they left a day or two later in the canoe and together. The feude undoubtly arose out of the ever present bowman/sternman dispute. The bowman can’t pick a route and the sternman can’t steer. So don’t ( as they say in the Eastern Shore of Delaware ) "fall into a fight" with your partner. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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