Question:

You know yore from Arkansas if:

Oh palms thankyou for a great laugh. Jeanne

Response:

This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen

Helen me too. LOL Jeanne

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen You know yore from Arkansas if: 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV. I thought that was Ashtabula, Ohio.

  Nonsense – they’re much classier in Ashtabula. Ghoulagirl. "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."                                         – Obi-Wan Kenobi, "Star Wars".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen You know yore from Arkansas if: 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV. I thought that was Ashtabula, Ohio. Marley Hey, I *like* Ashtabula! Nancy

You *know* Astabula???  I like Jefferson. Marley

Response:

You know yore from Arkansas if: 1. You take your dog for a walk and you both use the same tree.

BTDT 18. You’ve been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog.

BTDT but not a hunting dog. 23. You know how many bales of hay your car will hold.

Yup. 24. You have a rag for a gas cap.

BTDT And I’m from NY.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know yore from Arkansas if: 1. You take your dog for a walk and you both use the same tree. BTDT 18. You’ve been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog. BTDT but not a hunting dog. 23. You know how many bales of hay your car will hold. Yup. 24. You have a rag for a gas cap. BTDT And I’m from NY.

Gasp!  Your last name’s not "Clinton", is it? P2P

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen You know yore from Arkansas if: 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV. I thought that was Ashtabula, Ohio. Marley Hey, I *like* Ashtabula! Nancy You *know* Astabula???  I like Jefferson. I spent the night in an old hotel in Ashtabula once, though I forget why.  It was nice, kinda like stepping into 1956 Mayberry.  I kept waiting for Aunt Bea in her apron to bring out more hot rolls and home made jam from the kitchen.

Is Ashtabula on the coast, by any chance? I have a vague memory of hearing it mentioned on a local radio station when we were on board ship, on the east coast. Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy "Well if you think I am going to stand for this lying down, you had better think again!"      Celeste  12/30/96

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the night in an old hotel in Ashtabula once, though I forget why.  It was nice, kinda like stepping into 1956 Mayberry.  I kept waiting for Aunt Bea in her apron to bring out more hot rolls and home made jam from the kitchen. Is Ashtabula on the coast, by any chance? I have a vague memory of hearing it mentioned on a local radio station when we were on board ship, on the east coast. No, Ashtabula is inland, in a small time warp located in northeastern Ohio.  If there’s any water involved, it might be the "coast" of Lake Erie, but I don’t really remember and I’m too lazy to haul out my atlas to even check to see if I’ve got the right lake.  BTW, years ago Lake Erie was such a joke that it could barely qualify as being a body of water–I mean, it was wet like water, but it did catch fire at least once.  I hear it’s better now… Nancy

Yes, it’s on Lake Erie and even has a port, though I seriously doubt any real ships ever land there.  It also has a beach, which a least when I was hanging there, was a blacktop parking lot.  The city is the drug capital of the world and many strange characters inhabited the area.  One afternoon I was staking out a suspected killer (don’t ask!) when I noticed I’d locked my keys in my car.  oh oh.  A whole crowed of nice Baltic immigrants offered assistance with coat hangers.  It was rather humiliating and halted my career in professional snooping for years to come. Marley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<snip I once ran into a group of Baltic immigrants on a beach, and for some unknown reason the men all seemed to be wearing their Speedo-type swimsuits backwards.  It was *not* a nice effect, no matter how dapper they seemed to think they looked.

*They* must have invented THONGS!!!! LOL Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nancy "Well if you think I am going to stand for this lying down, you had better think again!"      Celeste  12/30/96

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent the night in an old hotel in Ashtabula once, though I forget why.  It was nice, kinda like stepping into 1956 Mayberry.  I kept waiting for Aunt Bea in her apron to bring out more hot rolls and home made jam from the kitchen. Is Ashtabula on the coast, by any chance? I have a vague memory of hearing it mentioned on a local radio station when we were on board ship, on the east coast. No, Ashtabula is inland, in a small time warp located in northeastern Ohio.  If there’s any water involved, it might be the "coast" of Lake Erie, but I don’t really remember and I’m too lazy to haul out my atlas to even check to see if I’ve got the right lake.  BTW, years ago Lake Erie was such a joke that it could barely qualify as being a body of water–I mean, it was wet like water, but it did catch fire at least once.  I hear it’s better now… Nancy Yes, it’s on Lake Erie and even has a port, though I seriously doubt any real ships ever land there.  It also has a beach, which a least when I was hanging there, was a blacktop parking lot.  The city is the drug capital of the world and many strange characters inhabited the area. You mean…Aunt Bea?  OH NOOOOOoooo…  I thought that was homemade jam…

I don’t remember any Aunt Bea’s but there were some whacked out locals. One afternoon I was staking out a suspected killer (don’t ask!) I actually did that once myself.  Just once.  I got into it without entirely understanding the situation, and I got tired of it really quickly.

I was working on a capital murder retrial.  We won but the real killer walked anyway.  He was supposedly the bastard son of one of the local chiefs of police and a snitch. when I noticed I’d locked my keys in my car.  oh oh.  A whole crowed of nice Baltic immigrants offered assistance with coat hangers.  It was rather humiliating and halted my career in professional snooping for years to come. I once ran into a group of Baltic immigrants on a beach, and for some unknown reason the men all seemed to be wearing their Speedo-type swimsuits backwards.  It was *not* a nice effect, no matter how dapper they seemed to think they looked. Nancy

Oh, please . It’s very late here. I spent a few hours on a train  once with some Estonian women in sweaters adorned with gold lame tigers. Marley Marley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Well if you think I am going to stand for this lying down, you had better think again!"      Celeste  12/30/96

Response:

You know yore from Arkansas if: 1. You take your dog for a walk and you both use the same tree. 2. You can entertain yourself for more than an hour with a fly swatter. 3. Your property has been mistaken for a recycling center. 4. Your boat has not left the driveway in 15 years. 5. You burn your yard rather than mow it. 6. You think the Nutcracker is something you did off the high dive. 7. The Salvation Army declines your mattress. 8. Your entire family sat around waiting for a call from the governor to spare a loved one. 9. You offer to give someone the shirt off your back and they don’t want it. 10. You have the local taxidermist on speed dial. 11. You come back from the dump with more than you took. 12. You keep a can of Raid on the kitchen table. 13. Your wife can climb a tree faster than your cat. 14. Your grandmother has "Ammo" on her Christmas list. 15. You’v! ! e been kicked out of the zoo for heckling the monkeys. 16. You think a subdivision is part of a math problem. 17. You’ve bathed with flea and tick soap. 18. You’ve been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog. 19. Your kids take a siphon hose to show and tell. 20. You think a hot tub is a stolen indoor plumbing fixture. 21. You took a fishing pole to Sea World. 22. You go to the stock car races and don’t need a program. 23. You know how many bales of hay your car will hold. 24. You have a rag for a gas cap. 25. Your father executes the "Pull my finger" trick during Christmas dinner. 26. Your house doesn’t have curtains but your truck does. 27. You wonder how service stations keep their restrooms so clean. 28. You can spit without opening your mouth. 29. You consider your license plate personalized because your father made it. 30. Your lifetime goal is to own a fireworks stand. 31. You sit on your roof at Christmas! ! time hoping to fill your deer quota. 32. You have a complete set of salad bowls and they all say Cool Whip on the side. 33. The biggest city you’ve ever been to is Wal-Mart. 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV. 35. You thought the Unabomber was a wrestler. 36. You’ve used your ironing board as a buffet table. 37. You think a quarter horse is that ride in front of K-Mart. 38. Your neighbors think you’re a detective because a cop always brings you home. 39. A tornado hits your neighborhood and does a $10,000 worth of improvement. 40. You’ve used a toilet brush as a back scratcher. 41. You’ve asked the preacher "How’s it hangin’?" 42. You missed 5th grade graduation because you had jury duty. 43. You think fast food is hitting a deer at 65 mph. 44. Somebody tells you that you’ve got something in your teeth and you take them out to see what it is. P2P

Response:

22. You go to the stock car races and don’t need a program.

Uh-Oh!! 23. You know how many bales of hay your car will hold.

Double Uh-Oh!! Becky Young ….Though nothing can bring back the hour of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower, We will grieve not; rather find strength in what remains behind — William Wordsworth

Response:

You know yore from Arkansas if:

snip 39. A tornado hits your neighborhood and does a $10,000 worth of improvement.

  This one struck me as really funny for some reason – ROR! Ghoulagirl. "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."                                         – Obi-Wan Kenobi, "Star Wars".

Response:

This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know yore from Arkansas if: 1. You take your dog for a walk and you both use the same tree. 2. You can entertain yourself for more than an hour with a fly swatter. 3. Your property has been mistaken for a recycling center. 4. Your boat has not left the driveway in 15 years. 5. You burn your yard rather than mow it. 6. You think the Nutcracker is something you did off the high dive. 7. The Salvation Army declines your mattress. 8. Your entire family sat around waiting for a call from the governor to spare a loved one. 9. You offer to give someone the shirt off your back and they don’t want it. 10. You have the local taxidermist on speed dial. 11. You come back from the dump with more than you took. 12. You keep a can of Raid on the kitchen table. 13. Your wife can climb a tree faster than your cat. 14. Your grandmother has "Ammo" on her Christmas list. 15. You’v! ! e been kicked out of the zoo for heckling the monkeys. 16. You think a subdivision is part of a math problem. 17. You’ve bathed with flea and tick soap. 18. You’ve been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog. 19. Your kids take a siphon hose to show and tell. 20. You think a hot tub is a stolen indoor plumbing fixture. 21. You took a fishing pole to Sea World. 22. You go to the stock car races and don’t need a program. 23. You know how many bales of hay your car will hold. 24. You have a rag for a gas cap. 25. Your father executes the "Pull my finger" trick during Christmas dinner. 26. Your house doesn’t have curtains but your truck does. 27. You wonder how service stations keep their restrooms so clean. 28. You can spit without opening your mouth. 29. You consider your license plate personalized because your father made it. 30. Your lifetime goal is to own a fireworks stand. 31. You sit on your roof at Christmas! ! time hoping to fill your deer quota. 32. You have a complete set of salad bowls and they all say Cool Whip on the side. 33. The biggest city you’ve ever been to is Wal-Mart. 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV. 35. You thought the Unabomber was a wrestler. 36. You’ve used your ironing board as a buffet table. 37. You think a quarter horse is that ride in front of K-Mart. 38. Your neighbors think you’re a detective because a cop always brings you home. 39. A tornado hits your neighborhood and does a $10,000 worth of improvement. 40. You’ve used a toilet brush as a back scratcher. 41. You’ve asked the preacher "How’s it hangin’?" 42. You missed 5th grade graduation because you had jury duty. 43. You think fast food is hitting a deer at 65 mph. 44. Somebody tells you that you’ve got something in your teeth and you take them out to see what it is. P2P

Response:

This is very funny – I have already forwarded it to some friends! Helen You know yore from Arkansas if: 34. Your working TV sits on top of your non-working TV.

I thought that was Ashtabula, Ohio. Marley

Response:

Question:

I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick Try asking on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly which is a mainly US based NG, you should get some good info there, if they can tear themselves away from the catch and release debate for long enough — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick: I lived in Bolivia last year.  There is a large fish called Serubi(spelling is wrong) that would be a challenge to catch on a fly rig.  But if you do your in for some good eating! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Question:

Nice job, Joe!  You said exactly what I’ve been thinking. The pettyness and personal attacks have gone on too long. IMO, both Ken and George have, in the past, posted many worthwhile comments.  Lately, I’ve been skipping anything by either of them because I’m sick of the off-topic rants. Too bad for me because I’ve probably missed some grains of wisdom. Dave Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. clipped! Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

Response:

My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder.

I’d share a bottle of Laphroig with George anytime. Just my $.02

Worth at least 3 or 4, in my book. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter

No Peter, You’ve fallen behind a little now!  "The Famous Grouse" is the tipple these days. — Bill

Response:

I don’t listen to anyone whose opinion I don’t respect Bill and that is something that has to be earned. It doesn’t come with a smart mouthed repost on a newsgroup! — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

Response:

Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

Response:

Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well.

 Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

Response:

 On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one"

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter

because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

Response:

It is amazing  how some of you are so two faced and cowardly that lurk among us.  The latest bullshit is going to stop and its going to stop right here.  All of you can either watch or join in.    I am going to do this systematically and point out by time and date the two-faced, lying hypercritical rag-mouth that Fortenberry really is. This will be short and sweet.  The we will move onto the latest news in my and your lives. I will begin by answering K.F’s post about GRAND AMERICAN DEAL OF THE YEAR and then onto one more or two.  It went like this, what he posted. Technically, Spam is unsolicited commercial email. We call Gehrke’s repeated commercial postings to ROFF Spam, but technically it’s Usenet abuse. Spam is illegal in Virginia, other states are considering similar laws. Spam is criminal. What Gehrke does to ROFF is not an actual crime, but a cybercrime. He has Spammed us, of course, and through poor mailing list management allowed others to Spam us. I doubt he’ll do it again. There’s really nothing we can do about ROFF abuse other terminate his account if enough of us bitched about him. I don’t know that it would deter Gehrke in the long run. He’s lost accounts at least once before and he shows no signs of having learned anything from the experience. In my opinion he’s just shooting himself in the foot by advertising here. He makes far more enemies than potential customers by abusing ROFF and in the long run that will be our best defense. Just don’t buy anything from anyone that advertises in ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry Go to this one to see retort.

Response:

correct K.F. about anything.  He knows what he is doing and so does everyone else here.   I just want to make the following points and the subject is closed. 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again. End of discussion. Mr. G. Now then, on to new and more exciting things.  Let’s have some fun!

Response:

Mr. G wrote 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

My opinion is that the level of commercialism you engage in on ROFF is not tactful.  You step over the line.  But I admit, that’s just one person’s opinion.  Thing is, I believe that many agree with me. Would you consider not advertising your products here if it were clear to you that most people find that many of your posts are too commercial? Like you, I am absolutely against any kind of control of this newsgroup aside from self control.  I just wish that you would exercise the latter. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again.

You are not a cybercriminal.  But you are a spammer according to what I consider to be spam.  If I’m the only one who thinks this, then hey…ignore me.  But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify your commercial posts as spam. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify

your commercial posts as spam.< True, but it’s *our* spam.  I for one have no problem with a group regular "spamming" the group.  For the most part, I consider that to be information, not spam.  Outsiders are a different thing, of course, but I find George’s posts to be of considerable interest.  And when I don’t, I just go to the next post.  No big deal.  Sure, it takes up some bandwidth, but to me, that’s no problem, ‘tho I realize it has been for others: I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

Response:

(snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  

The email problems were after he left, I think. People were emailing him for advice and asking him to write poems (he never did name names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back.

Excuse the intrusion, but I would appreciate it if the subject header did not include my name. HOT DAMN, Illini 32 Ohio State 27 at the half. If the men in Orange & Blue pull this one off I may just have to drive up to Chicago and watch tomorrow’s game in person. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter "There is a Demon within us  whose soul belongs to hell  Won’t someone save us sinners" "The sun goes down"

<snip  names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

Response:

I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

No, nothing that sinister, just George. He has irritated some people and been irritated by some people. Words and spam have been exchanged. Unfortunately, some good folks have decided to forgo roff as part of their daily diet. ‘Business’ as usual on roff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

 If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

That’s one option, and the one most often recommended. Unfortunately one cannot go to rec.crafts.dollhouses and discuss fly fishing. If you want to dicsuss fly fishing on Usenet, this is the place. If you see malfeasance here you either speak up or accept it. I choose the former. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Naw — they drink Macallan Scotch and smoke pipes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

Response:

Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. Firstly George, I’ll state up front that I generally like you and find your informational posts helpful.   Your willingness to share your knowledge and opinions are a positive contribution to this newsgroup.   However: 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

This is quite true.   The is no point to "rules" because there is no practical way to enforce them.   When we see behavior we object to, our best alternative is to publicly inform the offender.   If enough people join in the objection, we can hope that the offending party will realize that he/she has stepped over the line of commonly accepted behavior.   If no one else objects, we must consider that our personal standards may not be congruent with those of the ng as a whole. Now George, I think it has been clear that while your abundant commercial posts were also informational and  accepted without comment by many, a significant portion of the ng had a problem with them.   I think that the number of posts (no, I didn’t count them) complaining or otherwise commenting on your "over-commercialism" and even using the "S" word should have been an indication to you that you had stepped over the line into a kind of tactful commercialism that the group didn’t tolerate.   Even I nearly put you in my kill file, and I like you.   For ROFF to be able to police itself, people must be occasionally willing to back off and look at what the ng is really telling them. George and Ken F. –  I have been somewhat amazed that many of your posts have been extremely thoughtful and intelligent, yet some of your personal attacks on each other were so far over the line as to defy logic.   Many here cannot espouse a rational opinion without personal invective and name-calling, yet you both seem simultaneously capable and irrational at times.   From my observations (more time lurking than posting), nasty personal attacks are neither acceptable to nor appreciated by the ng members.   Sometimes turning the other cheek or taking the high road can do a lot of good toward solving a problem; and you’ve both tried it on occasion.   My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format.

We are who we are. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again

I guess all I can say is that you need to trust us more.   Most of us are intelligent folks.  We know what spam is and we know what criminals are. We consider the source.   An extreme example was the dear, departed D-Version.   Who gave a shit what he said?   I think you sometimes defend yourself more vociferously than necessary against irrational posts.   To those who respect you, no defense is necessary.   To those who dislike you, any defense is pointless. On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

Response:

Question:

A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del

Response:

A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del

Sure, it’s easy.  Long as you’re not scared of bears and are comfortable with backwoods camping and rafting.  Lot’s of people arrange their own float trips, and there is a thriving business in Alaska around doing that.  You have to be an independent sort, but it is NOT hard.   Try contacting Alaska Bush Carriers in Anchorage, or Fresh Water Adventures in Dillingham.  ABC flies to the Talachulitna, Mulchatna, Chilikadrotna, Deshka, and Lake Creek.  FWA does the Togiak, Goodnews, Kanektok, and others.  Both can help you with rafts, or you can get rafts from Wild Alaska Rivers in Anchorage, and air frieght them to point of need. You can do the Tal for about $500/man, and the Goodnews for about $800/man, not counting airfare.  ABC can rent you a tent and camping gear package as well as the rafts.   Camp Bendeleben, out of Nome, is an interesting trek outside of rainbow trout country, and is on the edge of the known planet.  GREAT silver salmon and char fishing in late august.   I’ve used both of these outfits, and like them.  Using a different outfit to go to the Alagnak this summer, will see how they do.   I recommend that you get the book, ALaska Fly Fishing, by Tony Route, to get you grounded in what kind of tackle you need.  All the gear you need can be gotten in Anchorage if you have a couple of hours between flights.  Try Mountain View Sports, or McAfee’s Fly Shop. Feel free to write if this isn’t enough to get you going.   — Andrew Brunette

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Have you considered Arctic char fishing in Canada’s High Arctic?  The Cdn $ (the loonie) is way down so prices are currently a bargin in US $. There are three options out of Pond Inlet on northern Baffin Island:  1. An Inuit guide/outfitter can drop you off at a fishing spot for a few days and pick you up later.  2. The guide can stay with you and you can try different fishing spots, and enjoy the specatular scenery, mountains, fiords, glaciers, caribou, whales, etc.  3. Or try the lodge in Kuluktoo Bay (most expensive). Up to 6 fishers can share a boat so a small group is most economical. Tununiq Travel and Adventure can put it together for you.  As a tour operator, they can access the lowest published airfares for you out of Montreal or Ottawa. Pond Inlet is well north of the Arctic Circle so you have lots of day light to work with in August.  The ice usually goes out in late July/early August, and after that you can travel by boat. The char are along the shores of the fiords and near the mouths of river until late August. Last year some lucky fishers were throwing back the 15 lbers and keeping the 19 lbers. For more information visit the web site:  www.tununiq.com General descriptions of Fishing adventures are on the Tununiq Adventures page, but check out the other pages for background information (e.g., the Wildlife and Climate pages via the Our Natural World page). Is you want some booking information send and email to Mike Ferguson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend/client, has fished in many parts of the world, without booking through outfitters. Is there any way this can be done in Alaska. He is prepared to hire a guide, at least for a while, possibly the whole trip, and we would appreciate any advice on an alternative to being based at a lodge. Private responses are welcome. Many thanks Del Sure, it’s easy.  Long as you’re not scared of bears and are comfortable with backwoods camping and rafting.  Lot’s of people arrange their own float trips, and there is a thriving business in Alaska around doing that.  You have to be an independent sort, but it is NOT hard. Try contacting Alaska Bush Carriers in Anchorage, or Fresh Water Adventures in Dillingham.  ABC flies to the Talachulitna, Mulchatna, Chilikadrotna, Deshka, and Lake Creek.  FWA does the Togiak, Goodnews, Kanektok, and others.  Both can help you with rafts, or you can get rafts from Wild Alaska Rivers in Anchorage, and air frieght them to point of need. You can do the Tal for about $500/man, and the Goodnews for about $800/man, not counting airfare.  ABC can rent you a tent and camping gear package as well as the rafts. Camp Bendeleben, out of Nome, is an interesting trek outside of rainbow trout country, and is on the edge of the known planet.  GREAT silver salmon and char fishing in late august. I’ve used both of these outfits, and like them.  Using a different outfit to go to the Alagnak this summer, will see how they do. I recommend that you get the book, ALaska Fly Fishing, by Tony Route, to get you grounded in what kind of tackle you need.  All the gear you need can be gotten in Anchorage if you have a couple of hours between flights.  Try Mountain View Sports, or McAfee’s Fly Shop. Feel free to write if this isn’t enough to get you going. — Andrew Brunette

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Question:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I was in a round bucks bag tube. Would a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.

I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.  A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.  It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. The bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.  Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.  If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. I’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. My fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.  He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.  See illustration below. [Image] Many is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.  I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.  When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.  At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. Tubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITEOne thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to <BRthe wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I <BRwas in a round bucks bag tube. <PWould a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.</BLOCKQUOTE I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.&nbsp; A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.&nbsp; It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. <PThe bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.&nbsp; Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.&nbsp; If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. <PI’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. <PMy fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.&nbsp; He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.&nbsp; See illustration below. <PMany is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.&nbsp; I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.&nbsp; When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.&nbsp; At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. <PTubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. <PAnglerboy <P– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. <BR<A HREF="http://www.midtown.net/~angler/"http://www.midtown.net/~angler/</A <BR&nbsp;</HTML Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:tempnsmailRA.jpeg" <encoded_portion_removed RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/2Q==

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Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

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Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor U.K. Lancashire. : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

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: One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to : the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I : was in a round bucks bag tube. : I find the wind to be a real pain in the rear, and would be interested : in hearing about any type of anchor used by other belly boaters.  On a big : lake it is hard to maintain a steady position or to determine how fast : your fly is dragging due to the wind. The best way that I have to deal with the wind is to keep at my back. This allows me to slowly kick so that I can maintain postion and steer the tube back into the position I want. It does not take much effrot to do this, and I can stay "put" in any wind that I can cast in. Of course, this is not always possible with some spots that I want to fish. Then, I’ll drift like I would in a canoe and paddle back to drift again. And remember, whitecaps breaking over your casting apron is nature’s way of telling you to knock off the foolishness and head for shore. ;- — Jon Porter

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Sue wants to know, will a big fish tow you round the water. Should we get in some water skiing practice

We have a local lake that the ODF&W (Oregon Dept. of Fish & Wildlife) puts the spawned out hatchery steelhead into each year.  A friend of mine hooked one last spring and spent two hours with it towing him around the lake.  He couldn’t do a thing about it.  And, he ended up taking the fish home for a few meals. — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length. Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader. for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips. Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK Ralph H

 I second the idea to take a piss before you enter the water!!! HEHEHE. Looks kinda silly kicking to the shore only to urinate all over your waders because you can’t pull em down fast enogh…

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Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions.

Just a couple general pointers. 1. Wear a lfe vest. 2. Scout the area and find a nice flat, firm bottom on which to enter. 3. Make sure you’re familiar with your tube. Think about how you’d get out in a problem. 4. Inflate it properly. Not too much and not too little. 5. Keep it close to shore – real close –  until you’re comfortable, and understand your ability. 6. Pee before you begin. 7. Narrow down your  tackle to the bear minimum. 8. Consider doing it on a small body of water on a calm day. Every spring, after a long winter of no physical activity, I get leg cramps my first time or two out. Keep it slow, stop and rest as soon as a cramp begins. Good luck, John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. In fact what is the best rod length. How long a leader. How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. Any more tips. Dave Bolt UK

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Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod.

At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length.

Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader.

for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further.

however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube.

I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips.

Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK

Ralph H

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Question:

Lake Fly Fishing Instructional HTML The first in a series of HTML Instructional Pages is now ready for your viewing. These are in depth segments from the Canadian Waters School of Fly Fishing Manual. They pertain mostly to Lake Fly Fishing and the forage involved and deal mainly with the Prairie/ high prairie regions but the information is valuable anywhere. One segment is available each month and this months features Mayflies. There is no password required and no charges for viewing. This is for public information and education. Look off : http:\www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm Locate the Lake Fly Fishing Instructional Pages by Bob Sheedy, the author of the manual. Many other informative articles, software and fly patterns available as well.

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= Lake Fly Fishing Instructional HTML =

This URL is needs correcting: Look off : http:\www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm =

Try http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm Locate the Lake Fly Fishing Instructional Pages by Bob Sheedy, the author=

 of — = =9F Len =9F —– Leonard Campbell                                                                                                =

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Question:

For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

 what do you wnat to see? naked fish?

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: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

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Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

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Question:

We are planning to hit the opener of the Beaverhead on May 18th.  Does anyone have any information on what kind of water flows out of Clark Canyon Reservoir to expect. We heard it may be flowing high due to all the snow. Any information would be appreciated. Tight Lines…. Mike

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We are planning to hit the opener of the Beaverhead on May 18th.  Does anyone have any information on what kind of water flows out of Clark Canyon Reservoir to expect. We heard it may be flowing high due to all the snow. Any information would be appreciated. Tight Lines…. Mike

Hi Mike The river is running high but the section below the dam should be fairly clear. It will be very dependent on the weather. A couple of hot days can make really make a change. Yesterday was 25 degree and several inches of snow in the am. By three pm it was 55 degrees and the snow was gone. Today it’s supposed to be about 70 degrees. Hope you have a good trip. Let us know how it was. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

I am looking at putting together a wellness day for a couple of friends of mine to go fishing at Coldwater Lake, near Mt. St. Helens. One of the guys is off to Arizona before too long and so we have to go somewhat early in the season — Late April — so I was wondering if anyone in the NOrthwest has had any experience in fishing at  this lake — especially early in the season. Thanks in advance, Rusty —

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I’ve never fished Coldwater Lake but have hear they are catching nice fish even right now.  My sources tell me that if the wind kicks up on the lake, your fishing day is pretty much over for us fly fishers.

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My chapter of Trout Unlimited (Des Moines WA) fishes Coldwater Lake usually in mid-June.  The access for fishing is fairly restrictive for those on foot since you are only allowed to fish at I believe 3 bank access spots: 1 near the boat launch on the Western end of the lake, 1 on the north bank about 1 mile up the trail from the parking lot, and 1 (I’m told, since I’ve not walked it) at the far Eastern end of the lake about 4 1/2 miles from the boat launch.  The access spots are IMO not very good for flycasters.  Spinning gear has a better opportunity for successful fishing with the better casting ability in the space allotted.  By the way, there is a pretty stiff fine if the rangers catch you off the approved trails or fishing in a spot that is not designated for such. This is to protect the recovering vegetation and to keep the area pristine.  Also, this is a selective fishery, artificials only, single barbless hooks. Float tubes or small car top boats (electric motors only are allowed per the signage at the launch) have access to better water.  While fish can be whereever they want to be, there is a shelf running along the northern bank that goes into a dropoff to the lake bottom at around 20 feet of depth.  Last June that seemed to be where the fish were for me – used a gaudy olive flashy wooly bugger on a T-300 line to get down to the bottom and bump the logs. If you’re not hitting some structure with the fly, you’re weren’t deep enough last year for me. We didn’t see many hatches the day we were there last June (cloudy, rainy day) but the year before (sunny warm day) we ran into a huge damselfly hatch.   I have heard that with favorable winds, people will put in at the launch and wind drift down to the access at 1 mile and then walk back with their tubes.  After being there a couple of times I think that would be a good strategy.  If the winds are out and about this coming June, we may try that. If you go in late April, I would have travel equipment to handle adverse weather as I recall we went over some fairly high ground on the highway getting in.  Seems like we were over 3000 feet elevation on the way in.   The April 11-25 edition of the Fishing and Hunting News lists Leon at Lewis River Sports (360) 225-9530 as a contact for Coldwate Lake.  I have not talked to them personally but you might want to call and see if they have some additional local information. Hope this helps.  Coldwater is a wonderfully beautiful lake to visit and fish. If you go, be sure to stop by the visitor center up the hill (I would drive not walk to it) and get a panoramic view of the lake.  If you are there on June 15, look for a group of us from TU in tubes flogging the water to a froth. Al Miller Des Moines Chapter of Trout Unlimited Seattle, Washington

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Question:

I am planning a trip to Padre Island sometime in Sept. I want to wade and fish for RED (big red) fish and speckle trout around this area. Any recommendation on where to fish and what kind of fly to use ? I have a canoe. Should I take it with me ? Is the water in the Laguna Madre too rough for canoeing ? Thank in advance for your input, Mr T.

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Uh…return mail bounced so… The Original Message follows: Received: by universe.digex.net id AA26238 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing In rec.outdoors.fishing you write: I am planning a trip to Padre Island sometime in Sept. I want to wade and fish for RED (big red) fish and speckle trout around this area. Any recommendation on where to fish and what kind of fly to use ? I have a canoe. Should I take it with me ? Is the water in the Laguna Madre too rough for canoeing ?

You don’t say which part of PI you’re heading to and, from your question on canoeing, I assume that you’ve never seen the bays.  So, let me give you a few (hopefully) helpful hints.  First, typically the LM is not too rough to canoe in—it’s just too darn big!  The fish have a whole bunch of area to potentially be in at any given time, so your job will be to cover some water and look for favorable conditions.  The three most important things defining “favorable” are: (1) Bait, (2) Bait, and (3) Bait.  You *must* find where the bait are: it’s no guarantee that fish are there, but if there’s no bait there will almost certainly be no fish. Secondly, I have been in situations where a flyrod would’ve been the best choice, but I feel that those situations are extremely rare and specific.  If you are wading deeper water with no algae growth and if you are searching for fish, use some other tackle choice.  OTOH, if you are in a situation where you are surrounded by feeding reds that are tailing and are in shallow flats, say up against a grass line, or are laying under some sort of algae growth (I was in such a situation 2 weeks ago in the Port O’Connor area) then by God a fly rod can be darn handy! OK, enough of that.  Back to the canoe.  If you’re not sure of the area, and I suspect that you are not, I would suggest something that will get you around better than a canoe—maybe a Jetski, or some such thing.  If you’re heading to Port Isabel, well I can offer a couple of suggestions that you can drive to (i.e. they are accessible by land) and that you can wade directly. cheers, (and good luck) john P.S. Remember: The fishing is *always* good, sometimes the *catching* is not.

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