Question:

I love fly fishing, Also love to fish for fluke i am wondering if anyone might have a few tips on fly patterns and the best way that has a chance in hooking up into a few fluke. I mostly fish from a boat of the Ct. shore. Thanks, Nat

Response:

I read an article once about some guy in the northwest flyfishing for halibut.  He used a heavy rod and sinking line.  The fly was a streamer pattern.  For the life of me I can’t remember which mag but it was either Fly Rod and Reel, Flyfisherman, or American Angler. It might work for fluke.  Maybe with big sculpin that mimics a creek chub? My brother and I used to trap chubs off the dock at Giant’s Neck Beach and then drift them on fluke rigs off of Rocky Neck SP.  I haven’t done that in a long, long time….. Let me know how you do…..  And thanks for bringing back a few pleasant memories —

| I love fly fishing, Also love to fish for fluke i am wondering if anyone | might have a few tips on fly patterns and the best way that has a chance | in hooking up into a few fluke. | I mostly fish from a boat of the Ct. shore. | Thanks, Nat |

Response:

Question:

Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

Hi All,  Like so many other things in life, short/light rods are not for everyone. Here in Northern California, we have some ( hundred?  thousands? ) small streams that have ‘tons’ of fish under 10 inches. Today (things might change in week or so) I would personally choose to fish them with a Sage 8′2"#2 SPL or an 8′#2 Winston or some other little beauty. Think of fishing as fun. Well, what I would like to use really doesn’t count in the big picture. I think this is a problem with everything in life. Why should anyone expect everyone else to agree with them unless they think they know the answers to life??? Why are we so upset when someone else wants to do it a different way?  I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" No, you suggest that is a very short rod that is very specialized. Then you would find out, as I have so many times, that this person has several short rods that are all slightly longer than 6′ and he loves them. Get the picture? I think it is sad that there are fly fisherman that try to shove their person beliefs down everyone else throat. Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have

all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out.

My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

<wisdom snipped I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" <snip

Didn’t Lee Wulff often fish a 6′6" fiberglass Garcia for Atlantic Salmon? With enough time on the water, I may one day be 1/10th the idiot he was. Mu Young Lee    Ann Arbor, MI  USA

Response:

Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene.

I would agree completely, Wayne, except that I think I said that before about one of Bill’s posts.  Or was it Mike Conner?  Or maybe Willi…… or perhaps Skeeter….?  Who the hell knows, but this was a great one. Mark Faulkner

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I got one 3 years ago for fishing brushy creeks and it worked perfectly for casting under the canopy. On trips to the Klamath Basin and the San Juan River I took it along for dry fly fishing and found the 3-weight line gave me a decided advantage in delicate presentations; I had no trouble with rainbows to 22". Needless to say, it’s useless for fishing strike indicator situations such as Lee’s Ferry, but it’s not a problem to cast 60′.

Response:

How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less.

I agree that different gear choices mean different perspectives.  Guys who fish mainly in the salt, for instance, probaby have little appreciation for the delicate feel of a nice 3-wt.  But I disagree about the brush and bushwacking. Being in Montana, I have bigger rods, 5-6 wts., natch, but I take my little rod when I am going to bushwack.  I keep it in its tube, which is smaller and easier to lash onto a backpack or my hip pack (for daytrips) and hike up into the little tribs, or the smaller wilderness streams, where an 18-inch cutt is liable to be the biggest fish I’m going to meet.  In fact, I primarily use my three weight on days when I’m probably not going to see another soul.

Response:

OK, Ok, Ok Ill try someones 3 weight this summer. At least once. By the way, some of this reminds me of an old Lee Wulff article. Sorry but I tried a 1 and a 2 weight already. Never a "0." I felt like I had crossed over into weenie world and the next stop was an operating table in Denmark. Felt like I was play fishing. I know, I know. Adapt! I think Id rather head North and die in a snowbank. Daytripper has a point about the number of rods the average fisher has, and all that. Except for the SPL, mine are well worn vets. And you are right, I would not consider paying big bucks for a lite rod to target tiny fish. I catch enough of those already, thank you. But overall parsimony probably does play a role. If I need a new rod its an 8 or 10 weight for Salmon. Several folks made mention of the small trout opportunities on the Olympic Penn.. Yes indeed there are many small fish and small rivers. And I fish plenty of both. But thats not what I target on the Penninsula. Its taken me years to learn how to fish these rivers and I really know only a handful. There are decent size Cuts and bows in some of these small rivers much of the year.  And there are times when there are very large fish in these very small rivers.  You do not want to hook a Chum, Steelhead or King with one of these rods.  I would even go so far as to warn against fishing a 3 weight or less if there are any Pinks around. I can’t see a 1 or 2 weight in brushy water surviving that first run. One last item: By "runty brookies" I was not putting down the whole of the Squaretail Nation. Or the value of any fish less than 10 inches. Im referring to high lakes that are full of 2-5 inch malnorished fish. OK? (So now the Email death threats should stop?) Happy Easter Dave Snedeker

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up. Im usually in the brush, and I almost never see others fishing who are not in my party. I do not hike into the high lakes anymore because most just have runty brookies by the thousands and its not worth it. To Charlie Machete? Hell no, see thats another point in favor of the Sage. You don’t have to carry a machete or a wading staff either. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,     – Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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David, Most of the fishing that I have been doing for the last several years involves "bushwhacking" to get to small streams in VA, PA and NY. I avoid fishing anywhere near other fisherman – not a misanthrope, mind you, I just don’t want anyone to see me when I blow an easy cast, or trip over a rock. These streams are small and tight enough that 7′ to 7 1/2′ is about all I can get away with. Even then, I’m on my knees a lot. I find it easy to subdue the brookies and browns that I regularly find with these small rods. They aren’t sick fish, just not big. A 9" brookie from some of these streams is a nice fish. Still, the occasional 14" brown is no problem when he/she comes along. And these fish are landed and released quickly and in apparently good condition. Still, I would not go lighter than this. BTW, my wife and I had several superb days on the Firehole in October, casting Baetis imitations to rising trout in the wind with Winston 8 1/2" 3 wts. Lots of fish hooked, quickly landed and released in good condition. Of course, other’s mileage may vary… -Doc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker

I agree that a 1 or 2 is awfully light but I use a 9′ 3 wgt with a Cortland Clear Creek line quite often especially during low water conditions.  It presents small dries and nymphs with alot of delicacy. A 9′ rod, even a 3 wgt, can put alot of pressure on a fish, far more pressure than a 5X or lighter tippet can hold. Willi

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up.

There appear to be two mindsets on fishing in tight quarters.  One says go with a longer rod for "dibbling" and roll casts, the other says to go with a shorter rod to avoid getting caught up on trees, plants, etc. I’ll agree with the roll casts being easier with the longer rod, but I don’t find an extra foot or so to be of much help with "dibbling". I prefer the shorter rods (but not too short) since generally they are small enough to sort of flip the fly out there without getting hung up on stuff.  I’ve got a 7′9" 2wt that’s perfect for those tight places on small streams. It all comes down to personal preference. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks.

I’ve lived in Colorado, the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, and Massachusetts. All three regions provide plenty of streams where a small rod is perfectly suited and can be more fun than a 9′/5W. I don’t see many people using small, light rods either, even on streams that can be jumped. But I chalk that up to most people not having invested in a broad arsenal. When a flyfisher collects a set of rods, which rod purchased is the small, light one? Second? Third? Fourth? And if the average flyfisher only has one or two fly rods, is one of them a small lightweight? I’ve fished with a lot of people, young and old, over the years, and I’d guess only one in five owns a short three weight or lighter rod. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die.

Your presumption is that you can’t fight a decent size fish with a small, light rod, but I don’t agree. I’ve caught a few fish (eg: a 22" rainbow) on my little Winston 2wt that would put a heck of a bend in a six weight, but the fish were all caught in cold water, and were landed quick enough to avoid over stress (remember that God gave *us* the big brains to figure out how to deal with stuff like this ;^) How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Yikes! You left out plagues and locusts! ;^) But it just ain’t so. Cripes, I’ve damn near gotten looking for short cuts to water, but I don’t endanger my rods when thrashing through the brush. I at least keep my rod in its sock if I’m hiking any distance. Otherwise, it’s a lot easy to pick your way along the stream with a short rod than a nine footer! Besides that…The tip on one of my 10′ long saltwater rods is only 1/64" larger in diameter than the tip of my little Winston, and it’d probably snap even easier. I wouldn’t want to try poking through the bush with that! /daytripper

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

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what are your thoughts on this rod?

  Love it.  Buy it.  Treat it like you wished your wife treated you.

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I sold mine and went to the 8 foot 4 weight because the wind always blows like crazy when I go.

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Andrew asked:what are your thoughts on this rod? As I always say you can’t have too many good 3-Weights. The only places I think it would be out of place would be in a float tube or a West Texas Wind. Big Dale

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line.

If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

Response:

I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die. How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

Response:

How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Wow, lost me on the logic in that one.  I "bushwack" my way to small streams on a regular basis and then use lighter rods.  Haven’t encountered much that has worried me about the safety of my rods.  I’m far more worried about slipping on a rock and breaking a rod than trompsing through the woods and breaking a rod.  There’s one spot I regularly frequent which required climbing down a 75ft sheer bank, the rods stay in their tubes for that one, although I’m sure a fall there would break an 8wt as well as a 2wt. Oh well, later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical.

Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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Question:

I have recently started fly fishing for striped bass and would like to pick up a floating line to match my 9 wt diamondback rod. I lready own an intermediate sinking line.  My question is wether to get a 9 wt or 10 wt. and also any recomendations on different lines would be great.  I have been looking at Cortland 444 big game; I have been told it is good for turning over "big flies". Any suggestions. Also I have a pair of orvis clearwater breathable waders.  And special cleaning considerations after using in salt water? Thanks, –Gerard Department of Mathematics and Statistics 16 Colchester Avenue                     phone:  (802) 656 – 3372 University of Vermont                            (802) 656 – 2940 Burlington, VT 05405-1455                  FAX:  (802) 656 – 2552

Response:

I have recently started fly fishing for striped bass and would like to pick up a floating line to match my 9 wt diamondback rod. I lready own an intermediate sinking line.  My question is wether to get a 9 wt or 10 wt. and also any recomendations on different lines would be great.  I have been looking at Cortland 444 big game; I have been told it is good for turning over "big flies". Any suggestions.

#10 shooting head.  The rod is a little much for bass, I think.  You should get a BASTARD BAMBOO for a 7 Wt which you can load with a #8 shooting head. Just kidding about the rod having to be a GG BASTARD BAMBOO.  Any old brand will do but do consider a step down in casting power for bass.  You don’t need a light Tarpon Rod to catch bass with. George Gehrke All Writings

Question:

I’ll be in north georgia next week and plan to fly fish for trout.  I”m used to fishing Montana, so I’m not sure what to use. Any suggestions on flys or streams?

Response:

<<I’ll be in north georgia next week and plan to fly fish for trout.  I”m used to fishing Montana, so I’m not sure what to use. Any suggestions on flys or streams? Try the Chattooga in the NE corner of the state.  Take Fire Road 646 off of Rt28 to Burrells Ford.  Walk upstream about two miles and fish down. In Helen, off of Alt 75, fish Dukes Creek.  Reservations necessary. Visit the fly shop in Helen on Rt 75.  They should be able to set ya straight.  Then, go next door to the working grist mill and sample Georgia Ice Cream (actually grits). Dave LaCourse A Bay Stater who’s heart is in Georgia (along with 90 acres). d;0)

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I’ll be in north georgia next week and plan to fly fish for trout.  I”m used to fishing Montana, so I’m not sure what to use. Any suggestions on flys or streams?

Take a look at http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ngto/ — Charlie…

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Can you cast easily in your bathroom?   If you want to get the true feel of Apalachian flyfishing try the Noontootla. The scenery is worth it, but she’s a man-killer. Another spot, if you have access to a float tube or canoe is the tailrace of the Toccoa River below the Blue Ridge Dam (in Blue Ridge GA).  Easy access at the dam and you can get out a few mile down the river at a bridge or at the homes along the bank.  Try to time it so that you are at the dam when they stop generating and turn down the flow.  The trout will start rising as the water drops. The Chattooga is a far more comfortable river to fish, open enough for a back cast all the way to Elliott Rock (which is the NC,SC, and GA border.)  You need a NC license to fish above Elliott Rock.   Good Luck. Patrick

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Question:

     I have been fishing for about fourteen years now, since I was about three.  However, the fishing I have done has been either spinning or baitcasting for various types of fish in mostly still bodies of water, or small rivers.  I recently had the opportunity to try my hand at flyfishing for trout, something which had been somewhat frightened of due to its seemingly immense complexity. Since then, it has occured to me that there was a lot that I was limiting myself from flyfishing.  The result, I am interested in starting a.s.a.p.  I realize that there is a lot to learn, and that it may take a very long time to master, but i have plenty of time ahead of me and am quite eager to learn.      First, though, it seems to me that I should first purchase a rod and a reel.  This is where my first discrepancy arises.  Being that I am new to the sport, I am unsure as to what I should purchase.  i would be using the setup mainly for bass and trout, though primarily for bass due to the limited amount of good long-term trout waters in my area.  For reference, that would be Cleveland, OH.  What weight setup should I get?  I was wondering if there is a good medium which would work well on smaller ohio bass (around two pounds, give or take) and trout, perhaps even small steelhead.  It seemed that a seven weight might be adequate.      Anyhow, I am looking to spend around 200 dollars for a decent setup.  Now for my second question.  How should I set up my line?  From what I have gathered, it seems that it would be best to use either a weight forward or bass bug taper.  However, I am unsure as far as a leader and tippet goes.  It seems as if it might be best to get a couple of sizes, depending on the situation. What are your suggestions?      To sum up a rather lengthy post, I need to know what sort of setup to purchase, and what sort of leaders and tippets to employ.  All suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance Ron. By the way, please mail responses directly to my.

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i would be using the setup mainly for bass and trout, though primarily for bass due to the limited amount of good long-term trout waters in my area.  For reference, that would be Cleveland, OH.  What weight setup should I get?

I would suggest a seven weight rod, with a double taper  flyline. A weight forward line would be fine as well. Anyhow, I am looking to spend around 200 dollars for a decent setup.

At that price, you’ll find a great flyfishing setup. Don’t spend too much more yet; you need practice, not fancy equipment. However, I am unsure as far as a leader and tippet goes.  It seems as if it might be best to get a couple of sizes, depending on the situation. What are your suggestions?

Stroll down to your local FFing shop and ask them what they’d suggest. They’ll have the skinny on the local conditions, and if you’re lucky, someone will take you under his wing. However, I am unsure as far as a leader and tippet goes. It seems situation. Best of luck! Frank Longtine                             the Second Amendment was not, and is not, about 1984 Ford F-150                                  hunting rights. It was, and is, about 1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       tyrranical governments.

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Question:

We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

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We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

James… I met a Spanish trout fishermen on the internet who may be able to give you some leads. His name is Paco…and he can be reached at If you go, let me know. Bob

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Question:

Selling my tools and materials. Mostly trout stuff, but some salt as well. Very little use, cannot tell Metz necks or Hoffman saddle from new. Some obscure stuff like Jackdaw scalp (for small wets) and Starling skin. Selling for less than half of new cost. Also have two Sage rods FS. Email for complete list and prices.

Well, what are you waiting for, season is ending at states, but here in chile its just the beginning, so mail-me your price list! Simon Zlachevsky http://www.scc.puc.cl/~szlachev/ Trata a los demas como te gustaria que te trataran a ti!                 /)                       O      /(                       |     /                       |   /                      /                 /             **                         ‘ () ‘                    ” /”                               UuUuUuUuUuU  Fly fishing, enjoy the outdoors, release the fish

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Selling my tools and materials. Mostly trout stuff, but some salt as well. Very little use, cannot tell Metz necks or Hoffman saddle from new. Some obscure stuff like Jackdaw scalp (for small wets) and Starling skin. Selling for less than half of new cost. Also have two Sage rods FS. Email for complete list and prices.

Send me a list and some prices

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Selling my tools and materials. Mostly trout stuff, but some salt as well. Very little use, cannot tell Metz necks or Hoffman saddle from new. Some obscure stuff like Jackdaw scalp (for small wets) and Starling skin. Selling for less than half of new cost. Also have two Sage rods FS. Email for complete list and prices.

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Selling my tools and materials. Mostly trout stuff, but some salt as well. Very little use, cannot tell Metz necks or Hoffman saddle from new. Some obscure stuff like Jackdaw scalp (for small wets) and Starling skin. Selling for less than half of new cost. Also have cconnect  

Am interested. Let me know what you have and what you want. thanks.  Al Lasher    

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Question:

Your drift boat awaits you!

It is images of that which help me to ecsape these walls every day George…I thank you. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Groups …snip —   Tim Walker, if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. You all take care & …   — snip — Damned right you look me up Al.  Maybe some of it will rub off on me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer        Your drift boat awaits you! GeorgeG Halfordian Caster

Ha!  and *now* we know that George G. is actually Tim Walker! (or else it’s the other way around…) Tim

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Hi Groups I’ll be off line for the next week or ten days field testing products and researching articles in MT, ID, NV, UT, CO, WY, NM, & AZ. Tim Walker if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. You all take care & … Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

just testing, sorry

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Tim Walker if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. Damned right you look me up Al.

Al, When you get back, tell us what he’s like, what he’s really, really like! — Phil Jones

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Groups I’ll be off line for the next week or ten days field testing products and researching articles in MT, ID, NV, UT, CO, WY, NM, & AZ. Tim Walker if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. You all take care & … Is this guy the ORIGINAL or what ?  I’ve been developing mission critical software in a goddamned 6 x 6 windowless cubicle all spring and Al’s out field testing products and researching flyfishing articles… What a guy !!! Damned right you look me up Al.  Maybe some of it will rub off on me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

        Your drift boat awaits you! GeorgeG Halfordian Caster

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Hi Groups I’ll be off line for the next week or ten days field testing products and researching articles in MT, ID, NV, UT, CO, WY, NM, & AZ. Tim Walker if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. You all take care & …

Is this guy the ORIGINAL or what ?  I’ve been developing mission critical software in a goddamned 6 x 6 windowless cubicle all spring and Al’s out field testing products and researching flyfishing articles… What a guy !!! Damned right you look me up Al.  Maybe some of it will rub off on me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Hi Groups I’ll be off line for the next week or ten days field testing products and researching articles in MT, ID, NV, UT, CO, WY, NM, & AZ. Tim Walker if I get close to your home (my travel plans are real loose and unscheduled) I’ll call a couple of days in advance — would love to meet you, maybe even fish. You all take care & … Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Question:

I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida

Jack: Like you, I missed the first CFV. The new (and final) CFV was posted one or two days ago (it is now 2-12). Just find & read it, and it will tell you how to cast your ballot. I did just that when I first found it. If you vote, then your vote will cancel mine. Fair is fair. Actually, that depends on your definition of the word "fair". Because it takes a 2/3 vote to create the new group, your vote counts half as much as mine. Regards (and good gardening); Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida I vote YES on rec.gardens.edible

While I think this was done in innocence, let me please remind everyone that voting should be done from the original CFV ballot, not by writing a line someone tells you to. You can find a CFV in DejaNews, or request one by email from the votetaker. Ginger

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I am grabbing this message as an example.  Ginger is entirely correct in her message.  THE ONLY WAY TO VOTE IS TO REPLY TO THE CFV.  I am not trying to yell, but I want that line to grab your attention if nothing else does. The voting on CFV rec.gardens.edible has indeed started.  You should see or have seen a message entitled CFV: rec.gardens.edible (Jani Patokallio) This is the OFFICIAL call for votes message.  If you missed it, it will appear again as 2nd CFV:rec.gardens.edible (Jani Patokallio) sometime soon.  You should only reply once (unless you change your mind) to EITHER message.  You don’t need to vote twice.   Read the CFV or 2nd CFV very closely.  It details how to vote. You should not vote by "just sending email to Jani with I vote __" because someone tells you it is the right way.  Your vote MAY not be counted. (Example: Calling the election committee to vote for Bob Dole) You should not vote by replying to a CFV that was emailed to you by a friend.  This could also cause your vote to be disallowed.   (Example: filling out Bob Dole on the ballot Newt sent you, even if it is word for word the same) You should not vote by replying to any other message besides the OFFICIAL CFV.  If you replied to one of the above threads(Vote Yes or Vote No) with a "me too" and THOUGHT you were voting, you were not. (Example: Calling Newt and telling him Dole has your vote) Your vote is important to the future of rec.gardens.edible irrespective of which way you vote.  I would prefer that you make your vote count.  That way we get a true representation of the internet gardening community. (Example: You driving your own car to your local elementary school and pulling a lever) Again, if you have any questions, please respond via post to this message.  No email to me please. Scott proponent rec.gardens.edible

I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida I vote YES on rec.gardens.edible While I think this was done in innocence, let me please remind everyone that voting should be done from the original CFV ballot, not by writing a line someone tells you to. You can find a CFV in DejaNews, or request one by email from the votetaker. Ginger                  Scott D. Jung http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/2392 http://www.netcom.com/~jung Remove the FIX-ME to send email.

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I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida

I vote YES on rec.gardens.edible

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I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida

   There was an RFV (Request for Vote) with a detailed proposal posted on Jan 31 to all of the garden related newsgroups.  It was the first call for votes and will be officially posted again before the voting is closed. You might be able to find it by looking in a group with less traffic (It’s still on my server in triangle.gardens for example) and setting the entire set of messages to unread.    I’m not sure if reposting it is acceptable, but I’ll ask one of the originators if they will do it again since it seems to have been widely missed.  I only saw it on triangle.gardens. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it?

The CFV would also be available in news.announce.newgroups.  It will also be posted once more before the end of the voting period. Note that because of fraudulent campaigning on other votes in the past by some individuals, providing someone with instructions on how to vote with anything other than the full, uneditted CFV is considered a big no-no.  If someone out there still has the CFV on their machine, reposting it is okay, but just posting the bare instructions is not. — Mary Conner

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I must have missed the post describing how to vote.  This is not hard to do in an area as cluttered as this one. I want to vote YES.  How do I do it? Thanks, Jack Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), Florida

Response:

Question:

        I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.  First, I was wondering if anyone out there might have any suggestions about where I can find large mylar tubing (say, 3/8” diam.) for making saltwater zonkers.  I want to make these flies with a deeper body than my trout flies, but cannot find tubing that will fit the size body I want.         I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.         In the case that this proves impractical, I’d aslo be interested in any information or comments you might have about companies like "Mc Kensie Fly Co." that buy new fly patterns from tyers and give them a percentage of the profits generated by their sales.  Has anyone out there heard of and/or tried this?         Thank you for taking the time to read through this posting to anyone who had the patience to get to this point, and for any information you might have for me.                                         -Michael Frank

Response:

   I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.  First, I was wondering if anyone out there might have any suggestions about where I can find large mylar tubing (say, 3/8” diam.) for making saltwater zonkers.  I want to make these flies with a deeper body than my trout flies, but cannot find tubing that will fit the size body I want.

I found some of this size (and several others) in gold, silver, and pearl in my local sewing and crafts shop.    I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.

Be careful you don’t cut your own throat on this.  As a professional fly tyer, you won’t want to work too hard at driving down the price of flies. Nothing wrong with offering us a bargain, but you’ll make more money in the long run by selling quality than bargain basement.                                    -Michael Frank

Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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   I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.      I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about

Al Troth is the only commercial fly tyer I know of who makes a good living tying flies (and guiding, and other things). The main reason is that he sells all his flies at retail. His total production has been spoken for for years. For every fly he ties, there are 10 people who want to buy it. Trouble is, not every fly tyer is as famous as Al (the inventor of the Elk Hair Caddis, for one). I wonder if free-lance tiers couldn’t form a cooperative of sorts, which would peel off a minimum percentage for advertizing, thus leaving more profit for the tiers. Seems like the net might be a good way to get this going. Although others might complain that advertizing has no place on the net. Royalies? Yeah, that’s the way to go….the only way to make good money with flies. Umpqua Feather Merchants (Glide Or) started the royalties business. Fly designs are not easily patented, and patents are not easily enforced. Umpqua does it for marketing reasons. They like to say that their flies are designed by nationally known fishing personalities. And that’s the catch. It’s not enough to have a good new fly design. You also have to be able to write about it, and get your stuff published. So if you are an author as well as a fly designer, you can make money. They usually pay 10% of the wholesale price…just like a salesman’s commission. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -setting up my own fly tying business.  I am especially interested in (cheap) ways to advertize that will be successful.  I tied for local shops over the summer, and have come to the realization that it just isn’t worth it since they only pay me 1/2 the retail price of the flies.  In selling directly to the fishermen, I could undercut the shops’ pirces, but still make more money for myself.  I’m just not sure how to go about setting this up and where I would get extra tyers if the demand proves to be more than I can handle on my own.    In the case that this proves impractical, I’d aslo be interested in any information or comments you might have about companies like "Mc Kensie Fly Co." that buy new fly patterns from tyers and give them a percentage of the profits generated by their sales.  Has anyone out there heard of and/or tried this?    Thank you for taking the time to read through this posting to anyone who had the patience to get to this point, and for any information you might have for me.                                    -Michael Frank

–

Response:

       I have a few questions regarding fly tying materials, and fly tying for profit.          I also would be interested in any suggestions anyone has on selling flies directly to the fishermen, and how I would go about Al Troth is the only commercial fly tyer I know of who makes a good living tying flies (and guiding, and other things). The main reason is that he sells all his flies at retail. His total production has been spoken for for years. For every fly he ties, there are 10 people who want to buy it. Trouble is, not every fly tyer is as famous as Al (the inventor of the Elk Hair Caddis, for one). I wonder if free-lance tiers couldn’t form a cooperative of sorts,

This is a very good idea, it merits more discussion. which would peel off a minimum percentage for advertizing, thus leaving more profit for the tiers. Seems like the net might be a good way to get this going. Although others might complain that advertizing has no place on the net.

A number of years back I had good success tying through the net. I charged $1.00 per fly, and could barely keep up with the demand. The feedback was positive, the ‘advertising’ wasn’t hard-sell or in-your-face, more like ‘hey, I tie, anybody that’s interested, let me know.’ Royalies? Yeah, that’s the way to go….the only way to make good money with flies. Umpqua Feather Merchants (Glide Or) started the royalties business. Fly designs are not easily patented..

[deleted for brevity]                                        -Michael Frank

Absolutely. I know a guy who has done this, and I believe he does quite well. He’s locally well-known, but certainly not a published or "big name" in the the flyfishing world, like Troth. — Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

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