Question:

7 DAYS BEIJING SUZHOU ZHOUZHUANG HANGZHOU SHANGHAI TOUR Beijing — As well as the nation capital, Beijing is the political, economic and cultural centre of China. The city dates back to the 13th century, when Mogul emperor KublaiKhan established it as the capital of his kingdom there and now as a fast-changing city under a leadership determined to keep pace with a rapidly changing world. Suzhou — Suzhou is a 2,500-year old city famous for its numerous private gardens in the classic style, some dating 400 years or so to the Ming Dynasty(1368—1644). Also a center of silk production, the city makes a dazzling variety of silk products for home and overseas consumption. Along with Shanghai to the east, Wuxi to the west and Hangzhou to the south, Suzhou makes one of the fastest-growing areas in China’s economy and education. Zhouzhuang — Like a lotus on the water, the town is surrounded and bisected by rivers. Sitting on the boat, one may enjoying the scene between bridges and feel the interest of a water township which offers a quiet and simple life. Hangzhou — Famous for its scenic beauty, Hangzhou is regarded as "Paradise On Earth". Historically as one of seven famous ancient capital cities in China, Hangzhou is a major destination of tourism and ancient civilization. Shanghai– A fishing-village-turned metropolis, Shanghai offers one of the best examples where the east meets the west, the Chinese meets the foreign, and the traditional meets the modern. The city equals many of the world’s metropolises in terms of the pace of life and the speed of change. A Los Angeles Times report in Sept.2001 says that, attracted by Shanghai’s glitz, more than 300,000 Taiwanese, mostly businesspeople, have settled down in the city in recent years. Day 1. ARRIVE BEIJING (D.) Arrive at Beijing International Airport, greeted by the SPRINGTOUR guide upon arrival. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 2. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Forbidden-City, the largest imperial palace in the world, visit the spectacular Tian An Men Square for sightseeing, then visit the gorgeous Temple of Heaven where the former emperors used to pray for good harvest. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 3. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Great Wall and Changling Mausoleum, one of the emperors’ tombs of Ming dynasty, followed by the Summer Palace-the largest royal summer resort in China. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 4. BEIJING to SHANGHAI to SUZHOU (B. L. D.) Fly to Shanghai, then transfer to Suzhou by bus or train. Stay at Suzhou China Garden Hotel or one in the same class. Day 5. SUZHOU to HANGZHOU (B. L. D.) Visit the Tiger Hill, on which stands a slanting tower; continue the visit to the Chilly Hill Temple, Lingering Garden and the First Silk Factory, and then travel to Hangzhou.(via Zhouzhuang). Stay at Holiday Inn Hangzhou or one in the same class. Day 6. HANGZHOU to SHANGHAI (B. L. D.) Cruise on the West Lake and take a look at the Peak Flown from Afar, the Tiger Spring, then walk along the Su Dongpo Causeway across the West Lake, have a nice cup of Longjing Tea at Longjing Tea Village, then travel to Shanghai. Stay at Shanghai Hotel or one in the same class. Day 7. SHANGHAI (B. L.) Visit the well-known Yuyuan Garden, the Bund-a show case of world architecture, followed by the Pudong New Area, and then have a stroll around the People’s Square. The pleasant tour ends. TOUR FEATURES INCLUDE 1.Transportation: Domestic flight of Beijing/Shanghai and air-conditioned buses for ground travel. 2.Accommodation: Standard double rooms in 4-star Hotel.(5-star hotel in Beijing) 3.Entrance Fee: All first entrance fees in the itinerary. 4.Meals: Indicated in the itinerary. 5.Tour Guide: Chinese/English speaking tour guides. 6.Insurance: Travel Service Responsibility Insurance. 7.Includes the air fare Beijing/Shanghai 8.Airport constructure fee is not included TOUR COST (Per Person) $480   Single Supplement $200 DEPARTURES Sorry! There are no available tour packages for you now. Please inform us of your demands! We’ll do our best to arrange the tour package only for you. TEL: 86-21-62511406 FAX: 86-21-62523734 Email: [Remark]: 1. Please make reservation for Spring Tour one week at least prior to the departure! 2. Tour cost for Child (below 12): 90% and 75% of the normal cost separately for occupying bed and no bed. 3. Tour cost fluctuates according to the season

Response:

7 DAYS BEIJING SUZHOU ZHOUZHUANG HANGZHOU SHANGHAI TOUR Beijing — As well as the nation capital, Beijing is the political, economic and cultural centre of China. The city dates back to the 13th century, when Mogul emperor KublaiKhan established it as the capital of his kingdom there and now as a fast-changing city under a leadership determined to keep pace with a rapidly changing world. Suzhou — Suzhou is a 2,500-year old city famous for its numerous private gardens in the classic style, some dating 400 years or so to the Ming Dynasty(1368—1644). Also a center of silk production, the city makes a dazzling variety of silk products for home and overseas consumption. Along with Shanghai to the east, Wuxi to the west and Hangzhou to the south, Suzhou makes one of the fastest-growing areas in China’s economy and education. Zhouzhuang — Like a lotus on the water, the town is surrounded and bisected by rivers. Sitting on the boat, one may enjoying the scene between bridges and feel the interest of a water township which offers a quiet and simple life. Hangzhou — Famous for its scenic beauty, Hangzhou is regarded as "Paradise On Earth". Historically as one of seven famous ancient capital cities in China, Hangzhou is a major destination of tourism and ancient civilization. Shanghai– A fishing-village-turned metropolis, Shanghai offers one of the best examples where the east meets the west, the Chinese meets the foreign, and the traditional meets the modern. The city equals many of the world’s metropolises in terms of the pace of life and the speed of change. A Los Angeles Times report in Sept.2001 says that, attracted by Shanghai’s glitz, more than 300,000 Taiwanese, mostly businesspeople, have settled down in the city in recent years. Day 1. ARRIVE BEIJING (D.) Arrive at Beijing International Airport, greeted by the SPRINGTOUR guide upon arrival. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 2. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Forbidden-City, the largest imperial palace in the world, visit the spectacular Tian An Men Square for sightseeing, then visit the gorgeous Temple of Heaven where the former emperors used to pray for good harvest. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 3. BEIJING (B. L. D.) Visit the Great Wall and Changling Mausoleum, one of the emperors’ tombs of Ming dynasty, followed by the Summer Palace-the largest royal summer resort in China. Stay at Beijing King Wing Hot Spring Hotel or one in the same class. Day 4. BEIJING to SHANGHAI to SUZHOU (B. L. D.) Fly to Shanghai, then transfer to Suzhou by bus or train. Stay at Suzhou China Garden Hotel or one in the same class. Day 5. SUZHOU to HANGZHOU (B. L. D.) Visit the Tiger Hill, on which stands a slanting tower; continue the visit to the Chilly Hill Temple, Lingering Garden and the First Silk Factory, and then travel to Hangzhou.(via Zhouzhuang). Stay at Holiday Inn Hangzhou or one in the same class. Day 6. HANGZHOU to SHANGHAI (B. L. D.) Cruise on the West Lake and take a look at the Peak Flown from Afar, the Tiger Spring, then walk along the Su Dongpo Causeway across the West Lake, have a nice cup of Longjing Tea at Longjing Tea Village, then travel to Shanghai. Stay at Shanghai Hotel or one in the same class. Day 7. SHANGHAI (B. L.) Visit the well-known Yuyuan Garden, the Bund-a show case of world architecture, followed by the Pudong New Area, and then have a stroll around the People’s Square. The pleasant tour ends. [Remark]: 1. Please make reservation for Spring Tour one week at least prior to the departure! 2. Tour cost for Child (below 12): 90% and 75% of the normal cost separately for occupying bed and no bed. 3. Tour cost fluctuates according to the season.

Response:

Question:

Another Lousy Day in Paradise might be a good read for him.  Another other ideas brewing out there?

Since you live where you do, may I suggest that you bring him a couple of books by Tom McGuane. I think he is a local suthor for you. One of my favorites is Outside Chance, but I understand he has a new one out that is just as good if not better. Big Dale  

Response:

Warren, Nice story, you can learn a lot from the old timers. One of the best friends I have in my chapter of TU is 84 years old. He drives 30 miles to meetings & has lots of history to share. He builds beautiful hand made nets for our banquet that helps us make some money for our conservation projects. He came to last fall’s fishing outing & I took him under my wing. We couldn’t get to the best spots because he needs a double knee replacement but we managed to find a spot were he slid down on his butt. On the way up I took his equiptment & then helped pull him up the bank. We didn’t catch any fish but had a great time anyway. Joan Stoliar one of the owners of the  company Folstaf wading staff is involved with Project Access which builds handicapped fishing access in the Catskills. One day every spring she enlists the aid of some TU chapters & a couple of other fishing clubs to help rebuild the ramps (they sometimes get washed out during the winter). We also plant willows to help shade some of the banks. Check this site for forther info: http://www.projectaccess.com/ We are all going to need help getting down to the river when we get older (not too far down the road for me) & I hope there will be some other fisherman willing to help maintain access. Sol

Response:

<snipped Big Dale’s recommendation Thanks for the info.  I will look into getting a copy and reading it first to see if he will enjoy it Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Sol, You gave me an idea.  Perhaps I can buy him a year membership in FFF here in Livingston.  I have been meaning to join myself.  It would give him something to do if he isn't already a member.  I think I might offer to take him out fishing too.  We probably won't catch many fish, but I am sure that the trip will be fun anyways.  Thanks for the link, I will check it out this weekend when I have more time. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

<snip I'm still trying to sort some things out in my head.  I don't know why this struck me as hard as it did, but I think I am going to make this a little routine.  Hopefully I will be able to give this guy something to look forward to and someone to talk to every now and then.  If that is all I can do, then I will do what I can.  Who knows, maybe it will be just the thing to keep this old guy going for a little longer or at least bring a little happiness to his life.  I only wish I could find another outlet like roff for him to participate in to help fill the vast void.

Warren, Nice gesture. I hope when your angling days are done you will find someone as thoughtful to help you through that final phase of your fishing life. Perhaps he may best be able to continue his fishing through you. What better gift could you possibly give him than the friendship of a fellow angler? Kiyu

Response:

Listen to his stories.  Type them up.  Print 'em out.  Take some pictures of his favorite spots.  Ask to borrow some of his old photos and scan them.  Put together a little booklet of his stories along with scanned photos and have a print shop bind it up.  That'd make a nice gift. Mu

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Warren Great post. Don't feel too sorry for the guy; just be aware that it comes to us all, if we are lucky. And for sure he is getting out there and enjoying the water and the sport in the only way still available to him. Buy the stuff if its a good deal and you can use it. Thats a way to show respect. The worst approach is to ignore him. Enuf seriousness. An alternative approach on handling this scenario it is to first scout out the situation. Then when he is crossing a field or some other exposed place, quarter in from behind. Drive your teeth into his Achilles tendon, throwing your weight to the right in a rolling motion. As he comes down, release your bight and spin out of the way, taking care to avoid his flailing kicks. Now back off and assess the situation to make sure he actually did fall to the right, in which case no repositioning is necessary ; quarter quickly in from infront and behind to the neck. Definitely reposition if he has fallen to the left. Take the best booty for yourself, its your right, but be sure to share with the rest of the group in order of their help on other hunts. Dave

Warren, Make a print out of David Snedeker's post (above) and show it to the old chap. If He has any SOH, he will probably pee his pants. It might be the best laugh he's had in ages! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Warren, A few options come to mind. You could take him lake fishing; no steep banks or currents to contend with, and if you're in the right place at the right time, the fishing can be spectacular. If he's not interested in stillwaters, and you can afford the rod fees, take him to Armstrongs, or somewhere similar. Again, great fishing and much easier to navigate than the Yellowstone river. (BTW, I don't think TBone would be bugged a bit by your idea of bringing your friend a fresh-caught fish or two. In a similar situation, he'd probably do the same thing. It's a tradition as old as fishing itself.) -- Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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<snip After three days of reading the replys, the original message finally shows up on my server.  Nice story Warren. -- Levi Trample the weak Hurdle the dead

Response:

BTW, I don't think TBone would be bugged a bit by your idea of bringing your friend a fresh-caught fish or two.

I know.  I bet he will actually get a kick out of *me* keeping fish. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour. Seems this gentleman had fished these channels long before I was even born.  We both shared a love for these channels and think of them as favorite stretches. Needless to say,  we had a common bond despite the vast difference in years so a conversation was not difficult to keep going.   After talking to the guy for about 30 minutes I started to get kind of sad. Joe said (his name was Joe) that he had stopped fishing in the last couple of years because he was too old and couldn't get around good enough anymore.   He had to give up fly tying as well because he can't sit for long periods of time.  He still drives along the river and checks up on his favorite spots I guess just for something to do.   Or maybe it is just his way of still having some kind of contact with fly fishing.  Either way it was sad to see. It really got me to thinking  about what happens when one becomes too old to fish.  I am guessing that he is all alone because he said that he gave some of his rods to his nephews who don't fish so the rods are just sitting in a basement.  Gave me the impression that his wife and kids are deceased if he ever was even married and had kids.  This man was telling me stories about fishing this area back in the 50's and 60's and so it was quite interesting aside from the pitty factor I was feeling. We began talking about the cost of equipment and materials and how expensive things were now compared to before the increase in popularity of fly fishing. He said that he used to by custom made bamboo rods for $60 with $10 extra for modifications to the specs, ect.  Anyways, since he isn't tying anymore he said he would give me a bunch of his tying hooks and would part with some of his gear and tying materials for pretty cheap.  It wasn't that he was trying to sucker me into buying all of his stuff so he could have some pocket money, I think he just wanted to see it go to a nice home. He told me where to find him so next Friday I think I am going to pay him a visit after I get done fishing in the morning.  It was kind of funny, he said to just go to the apartment complex that he lives in and ask for "Joe the fisherman on the 3rd floor."   Since he has to buy his fish from the store now, I think I will take him a couple of fresh caught trout as a gift. I feel obliged to go and visit him, not so much to buy anything he has, but just so he can keep up on what things are like out on his old haunt.  He was really interested in what the channels are like now.  He can't go and see for himself  so he was asking me all kinds of questions.  I could tell that he loved fishing very much and loved this area just as much if not more.  At one point during the conversation I could swear that he started to get a tear in his eye. When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.  It really has me wondering what happens when you devote so much of your life to something and then get to a point that you are unable to do what you love to do  anymore.  I can only hope that I never have to face this dilema.  But if I do, I hope to that I will have someone to talk to and maybe bring me a fish once in awhile. I just wish there was something I could do like take him fishing even just once more. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour.

        (snip)         nice sentiments, warren.         the answer to the question is photography. wayno

Response:

Warren.. Thanks for that moving story you shared.  My father, who taught me to flyfish, is now paralyzed from the waist down.  He waits for me to report on the last trip, what flies I have last tied, and what the streams were like. The streams are firmly fixed in his mind.  He knows every spot of which I speak.  My mother also reports that when he sleeps she often sees his casting arm going back and forth, and sometimes his hand making the familiar circular motion of an experienced fly tier. I like to think he is on his favorite steam or at his bench.  I suspect he is. Maybe these are things we ought to remember when we are tempted to take verbal shots at each other.  It puts it all in perspective.  It matters not what rod or reel we use, or the degree of our skill.  Let us enjoy each other and the sport we love even though every last one of us is at times a bit odd.  Let us also hope that when each of us age, which God willing we will, and then our time to depart comes, that this God in his grace provides a place to toss a fly and fish our favorite haunt.

Response:

[snip] When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.

[snip] You’ll do what this gentleman did. You’ll find a good home for it. Paul

Response:

Hmm….not exactly the sort of post I look for in the morning with my coffee. I mean the comics are what I read first in the newspaper, ya know? But it is the sort of thing, that to be a part of, creates a memory….john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour. Seems this gentleman had fished these channels long before I was even born. We both shared a love for these channels and think of them as favorite stretches. Needless to say,  we had a common bond despite the vast difference in years so a conversation was not difficult to keep going. After talking to the guy for about 30 minutes I started to get kind of sad. Joe said (his name was Joe) that he had stopped fishing in the last couple of years because he was too old and couldn’t get around good enough anymore. He had to give up fly tying as well because he can’t sit for long periods of time. He still drives along the river and checks up on his favorite spots I guess just for something to do.   Or maybe it is just his way of still having some kind of contact with fly fishing.  Either way it was sad to see. It really got me to thinking  about what happens when one becomes too old to fish.  I am guessing that he is all alone because he said that he gave some of his rods to his nephews who don’t fish so the rods are just sitting in a basement.  Gave me the impression that his wife and kids are deceased if he ever was even married and had kids.  This man was telling me stories about fishing this area back in the 50’s and 60’s and so it was quite interesting aside from the pitty factor I was feeling. We began talking about the cost of equipment and materials and how expensive things were now compared to before the increase in popularity of fly fishing. He said that he used to by custom made bamboo rods for $60 with $10 extra for modifications to the specs, ect.  Anyways, since he isn’t tying anymore he said he would give me a bunch of his tying hooks and would part with some of his gear and tying materials for pretty cheap.  It wasn’t that he was trying to sucker me into buying all of his stuff so he could have some pocket money, I think he just wanted to see it go to a nice home. He told me where to find him so next Friday I think I am going to pay him a visit after I get done fishing in the morning.  It was kind of funny, he said to just go to the apartment complex that he lives in and ask for "Joe the fisherman on the 3rd floor."   Since he has to buy his fish from the store now, I think I will take him a couple of fresh caught trout as a gift. I feel obliged to go and visit him, not so much to buy anything he has, but just so he can keep up on what things are like out on his old haunt.  He was really interested in what the channels are like now.  He can’t go and see for himself  so he was asking me all kinds of questions.  I could tell that he loved fishing very much and loved this area just as much if not more.  At one point during the conversation I could swear that he started to get a tear in his eye. When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.  It really has me wondering what happens when you devote so much of your life to something and then get to a point that you are unable to do what you love to do  anymore. I can only hope that I never have to face this dilema.  But if I do, I hope to that I will have someone to talk to and maybe bring me a fish once in awhile. I just wish there was something I could do like take him fishing even just once more. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Why not spend time brinigng him along on trips while introducing some new people to th s port.

I was thinking of that and the float idea as MC suggested, but there are two problems.  The first is that he said he can’t even walk down a bank because he can’t get back up since his legs are so weak now.  Second, he can’t sit for long periods of time.  I suggested that he try some bait fishing, but I think he almost took it as an insult, although he was kind and pretended he didn’t hear.  He is pretty old and I doubt he can wade anymore even with help and the area is very rocky and slippery.  I don’t think I would like to take on the liability of taking him out like that. I guess the best I can do for now is bring him a fish every now and then (Oh god, wait until TBone hears this :-}), buy some of his gear, and tell him what things were like.  In the future, maybe a float trip when I get a boat built. Something short with lots of stops would probably be ok. I’m still trying to sort some things out in my head.  I don’t know why this struck me as hard as it did, but I think I am going to make this a little routine.  Hopefully I will be able to give this guy something to look forward to and someone to talk to every now and then.  If that is all I can do, then I will do what I can.  Who knows, maybe it will be just the thing to keep this old guy going for a little longer or at least bring a little happiness to his life.  I only wish I could find another outlet like roff for him to participate in to help fill the vast void. Maybe I can take him some books to read.  Trout Bum and Another Lousy Day in Paradise might be a good read for him.  Another other ideas brewing out there? Other than quartering him and taking all the loot that is (Thanks Dave S, I’ll let you know how it goes). Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Buy his gear if you like it and can afford it, and take him fishing if you can.  The best bet is a boat trip. He will probably be pleased to see his gear go to somebody who will use and look after it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Why not spend time brinigng him along on trips while introducing some new people to th s port. You will accomplish 3 things, make the gentleman happy, propogate the love of the sport in others, and really get some pleasure for yourself by doing it. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

Warren Great post. Don’t feel too sorry for the guy; just be aware that it comes to us all, if we are lucky. And for sure he is getting out there and enjoying the water and the sport in the only way still available to him. Buy the stuff if its a good deal and you can use it. Thats a way to show respect. The worst approach is to ignore him. Enuf seriousness. An alternative approach on handling this scenario it is to first scout out the situation. Then when he is crossing a field or some other exposed place, quarter in from behind. Drive your teeth into his Achilles tendon, throwing your weight to the right in a rolling motion. As he comes down, release your bight and spin out of the way, taking care to avoid his flailing kicks. Now back off and assess the situation to make sure he actually did fall to the right, in which case no repositioning is necessary ; quarter quickly in from infront and behind to the neck. Definitely reposition if he has fallen to the left. Take the best booty for yourself, its your right, but be sure to share with the rest of the group in order of their help on other hunts. Dave

Response:

Question:

Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

Just curious, where are you writing from because your emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones into the Atlantic Ocean?

Response:

Just curious, where are you writing from because your 2 emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones east of the eastern seaboard and into the Atlantic Ocean?

Response:

I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? …

If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? … If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike.

  Agreed HM

Response:

Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine.

Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further….

Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

Response:

Is it just me, or is he not taking his own advice?  Hypocracy shining like a lighthouse here. He is leaving the group because he is sick of reading people’s (including mine) PHEWING, YET his advice to people is,  "they should just ignore his posts rather than reading them" Larry, if you don’t want to ignore the PHEWING posts, because they ruin the group for you to the point of leaving, how can you suggest that  we should just ignore SPAMboo posts which are ruining the group for us? Come back soon Larry, become a part of the solution of making this group more flyfishing related. Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros.

That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G[ehrke] forces could do is ignore him. It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s.

By Jove, I think he’s got it!   But more likely than not we’re all getting sucked into this giant G-Hole. (hah! the subject heading made you look, you licentious ne’er do wells) In other minor news, I tied up some saltwater streamers for a buddy in Boston and then wondered how I could send them to him.  Found that one of those floppy disk cases (that holds 4-5 disks) makes a perfect reusable mailing case.  I had a couple of these lying around from back in the days when floppies were more common. Mu Young Lee     Ann Arbor, MI    USA

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Hmmmmm If you algebraically add the positive G and the negative G does that mean that that there’s no G spot? Jheez, this could be serious. — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Response:

I guess in the greater scheme we can consider each presence adds to us in its existence or diminishes us in its loss.  Certainly lurkers and the most worthwhile sport of lurking has many advantages.  We certainly do not want to discourage lurkers for there-in lies the untapped gold.  However, a whine is a far cry from a lurk.  And, Dear Wayne, there will be no Whine before its time! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

_______  wrong. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Amazing!  You don’t like it yet you keep reading it over, and over, and over.  If you want just the information you specifically wish to see I suggest you set down, write yourself several hundred extremely boorish e-mails and send them to yourself over a period of several months.  Better yet, go out and buy a Fly Fishing magazine!  Everything you ever wanted to know, and all the knowledge in the world for just a few schekles, or are you too cheap to spring for the ‘zine.  You want information?  Go buy an encyclopedia.  You want knowledge and experience not found in writing anywhere else?  Naw, you don’t want to read anything not specifically tailored to your personal wants and desires.  I sure hope your wife doesn’t bore you one evening! Come again when you can stay longer! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

______  Brings back memories of my fighter pilot days. very funny Jeff. Neutral G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

Similarly, I came back to see what progress was being made with the ‘Bastards’ and hopefully to find a little more civility. Not to be. What I found is the S.O.S.

Response:

Question:

 I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam

I have used the Cabelas Dry Plus waders for a year now and I have not had any problems. I tend to do a lot of walking when out on the stream and they have held up great. They have neoprene knee pads which is nice.  They also come with a patch kit that includes the same material that the waders are made out of. If you get a leak you just iron this material into the waders – kind of melts together on the inside. Good luck, Greg

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I picked up the article on breathable waders in Fly Rod and Reel, and it was pretty informative. As always, there’s a tradeoff – between breathability, durability, and price. Find a match for any two of the variables and it might not match the third one. According to the article, Orvis Clearwaters sound the best for breathability/price but sacrifice puncture resistance. (But the warranty is nice.) The Hodgemans sounded like a good deal in that price range also. I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski e t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

There is an article on breathable waders in the current issue of "Fly Rod & Reel".  They seemed to be most impressed with the Hodgman’s of the Cabela’s, Hodgman’s and Orvis. JS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – test t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

very well made. writes: I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

There is an ad in this month’s Fly Fisherman.  It seems that Orvis has had an "official" price reduction on the Clearwater Breathable.  All Orvis dealers should now be honoring this price.

Response:

Anyone try the new Redington breatheable waders? I’ve seen them in a catalog only but they sound like a great deal. Four year unconditional warranty and $169. I’d like to see how they compare to the really expensive Simms. Thanks Michael L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose.

They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

Unicoi Outfitters in Helen, GA  had them at $129 when I was up there yesterday. — Charlie…

Response:

There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

test t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling

Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^} — To reply, please remove "hormel" from my address.  Diapers and politicians should be changed regularly,  often for the same reason.

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165. 2) I like the Orvis and LL Bean models because they come in both men’s and women’s cuts/sizes.  When I buy, I plan to get two pair; one for myself and one for my wife. 3) I am concerned about the lack of knee protection (for we clumsy) on the Clearwater and Hodgeman waders.  Orvis, of course, has the excellent warranty.  But both the Cabela’s and the Streamlight waders have reinforced knees and LL Bean’s warranty is even better. I am only trying to get more information to make a decision.  Any and all comments would be appreciated. Jonathan Williamson

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^}

I’m planning to buy a pair of Simms. (Fortunately, I can get them wholesale). I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Hi Sam, I am sure that Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make good waders and stand behind them, but Orvis has the hottest deal on entry level breathables( anything under $200) Their Clearwater stocking foot breathable chest waders come with a neoprene foot and suspenders for $129. They also have a prorated 4 year warranty. I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

Hi All, There is a lot of low elevation action right now in Nor Cal. We have the striper spawning run that is below and above my town of Sacramento now. April/May/ June is prime time so go for it. There are small spring run steelhead and trout in all the valley rivers/streams and they are feeding on salmon fry and insects. The black bass are really taking off now especially on the sunny days. The shad run is getting close with May/June being the prime months for wading. They will be boat fishing for them very soon. Many low elevation lakes are seeing the end of the winter trout before they go deep and the bass are coming to the banks with the warm weather. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

Trip Report of Sorts We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?". Ugly American Tourists on their day off. Your pal, — TBone The Halfordian Golfer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, There is a lot of low elevation action right now in Nor Cal. We have the striper spawning run that is below and above my town of Sacramento now. April/May/ June is prime time so go for it. There are small spring run steelhead and trout in all the valley rivers/streams and they are feeding on salmon fry and insects. The black bass are really taking off now especially on the sunny days. The shad run is getting close with May/June being the prime months for wading. They will be boat fishing for them very soon. Many low elevation lakes are seeing the end of the winter trout before they go deep and the bass are coming to the banks with the warm weather. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

Trip Report of Sorts We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?". Ugly American Tourists on their day off. Your pal,

Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Okay Bill, you convinced me.  I will leave these 30 lb stripers in the Chesapeake and the shad run and head to California.  Thanks for the tips by the way.  I talked to my buddy and he is bringing his raft and rowing frame. We will get a guide (hopefully) on the Lower Sac for Saturday and then raft it on Sunday and Monday. By the way, with my history, you might want to call the volunteer fire departments for the areas downstream from Redding and alert them to my presence.  They might want to stock up on grappling hooks.  Anyone else with a video camera is free to film from a safe distance.  Again, I thank you and my widow thanks you. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter

Hey, I grew up 10 miles from Ontario, does that mean I can claim dual citizenship? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Shit, if you didn’t notice until you got to Ontario – you were REALLY lost.  :) Peter Hey, I grew up 10 miles from Ontario, does that mean I can claim dual citizenship?

Frank, we’d be proud to call you one of ours.  Hell, you’d fit right in.  (Not sure if that’s a good thing, though?) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

(excuse if this is a duplicate, but my server is a bit wanky) Okay Bill, you convinced me.  I will leave these 30 lb stripers in the Chesapeake and the shad run and head to California.  Thanks for the tips by the way.  I talked to my buddy and he is bringing his raft and rowing frame. We will get a guide (hopefully) on the Lower Sac for Saturday and then raft it on Sunday and Monday. By the way, with my history, you might want to call the volunteer fire departments for the areas downstream from Redding and alert them to my presence.  They might want to stock up on grappling hooks.  Anyone else with a video camera is free to film from a safe distance.  Again, I thank you and my widow thanks you. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

We got majorly lost driving back to anaheim from universal studios…last week. We missed the turnoff from 10 to 5 and didn’t notice it until we hit highway 15, Ontario, etc. and I told the driver….uh…."what road are we on…?".

Yeah, the 4-level.  Depending on which way you hit that interchange where the 10, 101, 5, 110 all seem to merge, you might have to cross 4 lanes of highway in 1/8 mile to reach your desired destination. Mu

Response:

I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to be able to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

Response:

Yes by all means go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming we don’t have any guides and the water is all private. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to be able to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

Response:

(Rapalm) writes: I’m planning a vacation for the end of July, and was considering the Shasta region of Northern Cal.  To fish the McCloud, Trinity,etc.  What I’ve read however seems to promote an awful lot of private water, and I’m not going to beable to afford guided trips.  Can anyone clue me in as to public access out there, and what to expect?  If I’m going to be frustrated by access, I’d rather go to Montana/Idaho/Wyoming as I usually do.  Thanks in advance. Ray P

Hi Ray, There’s huge amounts of public water on the McCloud, Upper Sac, Trinity, Hat Creek, Pit River, Upper Klamath River, etc.     The McCloud has about a 3 mile section that is owned and operated by the Nature Conservancy and they limit access to a max of 10 rods at any one time.  All of the area from the McCloud Reservoir (lake) down to this is public access and great water.  Lots of public access above the reservoir too, but mostly stocked because it is open to bait fishing.  The Upper Sac has ~ 40 miles of public access.  Virtually all of the Trinity, Hat Creek, Pit River and Upper Klamath are open to public access. The Fall River is totally surrounded by private land but there is public access provided by CalTrout by  Island Bridge.  You do need a pram or other small boat to fish it, ther is no bank access.  The Fall and the section of Hat Creek below the influx of the Rising River are both big spring creeks.  The others are freestone streams.  Scenery is much different than Montana – much greener. Exception would be the Fall River which is best characterised as a large meadow stream that barely moves. Best to call before you come to see what conditions are on the different rivers.  I can tell you what the current conditions are on the McCloud and Upper Sac because I guide on those rivers.  Although I’ve guided in the past on the Fall and on Hat Creek, I’m not sure I’ll do so this year.  The Fly Shop in Redding is usually a good source for info on most of the N. CA rivers.  The Trinity Fly Shop will have current info on the Trinity.  With all the snow and rain we’ve had this year, I’d expect July to be good in N CA.                                            Good Fishing,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Question:

Don’t be so insecure, Muskie; nobody’s looking down their nose at you. In terms of making the kinds of choices you describe, e.g. where to fish, what kind of fish to fish for and etc., the reason the vast majority of people fish the way they do is *not* ethics, its aesthetic preference

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker

Hi Steve, I think I would look for a used 10′-14′ raft with a rowing frame. A friend just got a used 14′Avon with a steel rowing frame for $500. I have fished in one of these rafts with a guide, Herb Burton, out of Lewiston, California. I really liked it. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft?

Very difficult, i.e. any energy transmitted from the rod arm through your feet or seat will move any keelless boat, and hardly anyone is so skilful as to transmit no such energy. The same thing happens in a float tube (I suppose) but your finned feet are available to keep station.  Alone in any boat, you need your hands both to keep station and to fish, and it’s hard to do both at once.  This is why I abandoned rubber boats for keeled canoes (even though these are more vulnerable to wind.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Get a Bucks Bag "Bronco"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker Hi Steve, I think I would look for a used 10′-14′ raft with a rowing frame. A friend just got a used 14′Avon with a steel rowing frame for $500. I have fished in one of these rafts with a guide, Herb Burton, out of Lewiston, California. I really liked it. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Given a limited budget (~$1000 max) and no roof rack or trailer, what type of inflatable craft would you recommend for fly fishing  on lakes and rivers in in the Western U.S.? I’ve looked at float tubes and other fly fishing-specific boats, but they’re too specialized and carry only one passenger.  I’m wondering about peoples’ experiences with inflatable canoes/kayaks (see the SOAR ad in this NG!) or rafts, which can carry maybe 2 people and used on Class 3 water. How easy is it to cast from a kayak or raft? Thanks Steve Whittaker

Response:

Question:

Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy

 I came by this by accident, when my nephew shut the car door on the tip of a flyrod of mine. It lopped off about 8 inches and made it tough to use as a flyrod again. During the big snow storms we had tthis winter I was messing around in the basement and found two old spinning reels Wasn’t using anymore and cleaned them up. Looking around, I spotted the old flyrod and decided what the hell and taped one on. I took it out two days ago and it acts like a 7 1/2 foot long ultralight. It’ll sling the smallest rebel minow a pretty far distance . Haven’t caught anything on it yet but I think it will do great for crappie and other small fish, and a small mouth will probably be something else. The rod seems to load itself, so the weight of the lure doesn’t matter as much. Bill C.

Response:

: to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : A very light, longish rod can help (spinning, of course…).  Or a flyrod… More practically, use a small bobber for weight. … greg pavlov

And I have heard of this baitfisherman’s trick: use an ice cube or a sugar cube as a "sinker".  You wrap the line around your ice cube in a double hitch and pull for a moment – the line is supposed to cut in a bit. Then you cast and the extra weight melts/dissolves. It sounds like it might work for baits that sit there for a while. I haven’t tried it myself…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy — Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell

There are bobbers made specifically for this purpose, like the clear plastic ones Robert mentions.  They hamper your ability to control the lure, like for small poppers.  But, they do allow you to cast a very light lure without learning to use a fly rod. Of course, the other option is to buy a fly rod/reel and start practicing.   That’s something I can do when I retire. 8-] Richard

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Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated!

I’d try the same technique for casting a fly (with a spinning rod) long distance.  Try a clear plastic bubble.  You can control the depth by changing the amount of water you put in it.  Fill it about halfway and it won’t sink.  Using an ultralight rod and reel with 2# test line (max) will make it much easier as well. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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: Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting : to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn : thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   : I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but : that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! : Randy : — : Randy: : The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. You can also use a lighter test line.  Next, start fooling around with rod/reel combos, but that’s more expensive. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —

Randy: The simplest solution is to attach a bobber about 36" above the lure. The bobber provides plenty of wieght for casting, but won’t sink your floating lure. If you’re concerned about the bobber spooking the fish, use one of the small clear plastic jobs. Good fishing…. Robert Maxwell

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Simple question–  is there any way to overcome the problem of wanting to cast a small, light floating lure out onto a lake–when the durn thing is too light to cast farther than the closest tule?   I’ve used split shot and put the lure on a real long leader, but that only works to a certain depth.  Any thoughts or tips appreciated! Randy —

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Question:

Destination question for the group: I am planning (on very short notice) a family vacation to Destin/Panama City, Fla.  Should be arriving down there Saturday 6/24. I’ll be driving this time, so I’ll have my vehicle at my disposal. The trip will be heavily slanted towards keeping my wife (not a fisherman) and my three kids (8,6 & 4) happy, but I will have some time available for myself. I assume there’s inshore opportunity for speckled trout, redfish, maybe small tarpon and even snook. On previous trips I’ve been able to do a little evening/morning fishing scattered in here and there. I also usually get away with a half day or so of fishing. The 1/2 day will probably be spent fishing off a party boat or "six pack" type charter. As far as tackle goes, I have to admit I havent much experience with salt water fly fishing. There are no saltwater opportunities in Missouri I’ve got a few BIG deceivers that I’ve used for yellowtail, baracuda and bonita off boats out of southern CA & baja Mexico. I also have an assortment of jigs & plugs for my spinning & casting tackle. Most of this is your typical heavy lead jigs and lipped diving plugs like "Cisco Kid". I’ve got a Sage 890RPL. I use an 8wt Bass Bug Taper line on it. The reel is a Lamson 3. There’s about 100 yds of backing. I’ll also be taking a 7 1/2′ spinning rod with 200+ yds of 17lb mono. I haven’t booked a room yet, but I’m sure we’ll be staying beachfront. So here come the questions:  1) Where to fish  2) What to fish with, epecially inshore in the surf or around     jetties/piers/bridges. I am no longer into chucking a hunk     of squid or shrimp out and seeing what happens. I don’t need     to use fly tackle exclusively, but that would be nice.  3) Any advice along the lines of how to spend the 1/2 day fishing     trip. Open to almost anything.  and 4) What kind of things other than the beach and pool are there         to do for the family.  *** THANKS IN ADVANCE! ***  -Mark-              ,              O          .:/          Mark Devino          ,,///;,   ,;/   Sr. Recruiter   o     o:::::::;;///    APPLIED DATA SYSTEMS      . ::::::::;;\    St. Louis/St. Charles, Missouri               ‘;      "I fish, therefore I lie"

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: Destination question for the group: : I am planning (on very short notice) a family vacation to : Destin/Panama City, Fla.  Should be arriving down there : Saturday 6/24. Which one, Destin and Panama City are like an hour plus apart.   Destin and Ft. Walton Beach are just across the bridge from each other.  If you are in Panama City, I can’t offer any help. : I’ll be driving this time, so I’ll have my vehicle at my disposal. : The trip will be heavily slanted towards keeping my wife (not a : fisherman) and my three kids (8,6 & 4) happy, but I will have : some time available for myself. I assume there’s inshore : opportunity for speckled trout, redfish, maybe small tarpon : and even snook. : On previous trips I’ve been able to do a little evening/morning : fishing scattered in here and there. I also usually get away with : a half day or so of fishing. The 1/2 day will probably be spent : fishing off a party boat or "six pack" type charter. : As far as tackle goes, I have to admit I havent much experience : with salt water fly fishing. There are no saltwater opportunities : in Missouri I’ve got a few BIG deceivers that I’ve used for : yellowtail, baracuda and bonita off boats out of southern CA & : baja Mexico. I also have an assortment of jigs & plugs for my : spinning & casting tackle. Most of this is your typical heavy : lead jigs and lipped diving plugs like "Cisco Kid". : I’ve got a Sage 890RPL. I use an 8wt Bass Bug Taper line on it. Perfect.   : The reel is a Lamson 3. There’s about 100 yds of backing. I’ll : also be taking a 7 1/2′ spinning rod with 200+ yds of 17lb : mono. I haven’t booked a room yet, but I’m sure we’ll be : staying beachfront. : So here come the questions: :  1) Where to fish If you are in Destin, find a public beach on Chochtahachie (sp) Bay and wade out to whatever grass flats you can find.  The deceivers should work fine for Specs and Reds.  Maybe some crab or shrimp patterns would also be useful. The surf or jetties at east pass should give you some opportunities to strip some deceivers past some nice fish.   :  2) What to fish with, epecially inshore in the surf or around :     jetties/piers/bridges. I am no longer into chucking a hunk :     of squid or shrimp out and seeing what happens. I don’t need :     to use fly tackle exclusively, but that would be nice. Jigs on spinning gear work well but with the 8 weight you can rig up some front weighted flys that would act similarily. :  3) Any advice along the lines of how to spend the 1/2 day fishing :     trip. Open to almost anything. :  and 4) What kind of things other than the beach and pool are there :         to do for the family. Left Ft. Walton 16 years ago, so I don’t really know what is there any more. :  *** THANKS IN ADVANCE! *** Good luck and have fun. Bryan :  -Mark- :              ,             :  O          .:/          Mark Devino :          ,,///;,   ,;/   Sr. Recruiter :   o     o:::::::;;///    APPLIED DATA SYSTEMS :      . ::::::::;;\    St. Louis/St. Charles, Missouri   :             ‘; :      "I fish, therefore I lie"

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Don’t forget to take some Clousers-no better fly for anything in the salt.  Lady fish in the surf or trout/reds on the flats eat them like nothing else.

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Question:

I would like to get a rod for my 20 year old son, who is interested in taking up fly fishing. I am interested in a 5 or 6 wt. 3 or 4 piece 9ft. travel rod, and I would like to pay something around $120 simply because I do not want to make the plunge into an upscale rod until I know he is really interested.          A while back, people on this group had good things to say about the St. Croix Imperial travel rod. I have looked at one in the store, and it seems to fill the bill. However, I am wondering if anyone has any other suggestions for a rod in this category.I would be grateful for any advice.                                                 Thanks,                                                 Dick Curley

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Hi Dick, We have sold the St.Croix Imperial rods for several years now at or physical store location. We sell over one hundred rods per year and we have yet to have any compliants. St Croix is a respected manufacturer who produce rods for both Cortland and Scientific Angler.  In this price category there is no one close to them for value. Hope this helps. Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

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Can’t help you with a travel rod, but I’ve got an almost new Powell 2 Pc. 5WT. (9′) I’m looking to sell, it is a high quality, moderate tapered factory finished rod. Lemme know if you have any interest. J.O’C.

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I would like to get a rod for my 20 year old son, who is interested in taking up fly fishing. I am interested in a 5 or 6 wt. 3 or 4 piece 9ft. travel rod, and I would like to pay something around $120 simply because I do not want to make the plunge into an upscale rod until I know he is really interested.

  A while back, people on this group had good things to say about the St. Croix Imperial travel rod. I have looked at one in the store, and it seems to fill the bill. However, I am wondering if anyone has any other suggestions for a rod in this category.I would be grateful for any advice.

Having tested some St. Croix rods against other manufacturers, I can tell you that St Croix is an exceptional value. The problem I found with them is that they tend to magnify casting technique. If you’re a good caster to begin with, you’ll find yourself happily rewarded with a high-performance rod for a bargain price. If you’re a poor caster, you’ll think the St Croix is a piece of garbage, because it will magnify every mistake you make. That’s great if you’ve got someone to help you with your casting, but most neophytes who buy St Croix rods find themselves frustrated. They then buy an Orvis thunderstick and find casting is much easier, even though they still have the same bad habits. They then blame the St Croix rods, and not their own poor technique. I highly recommend the St Croix rods, especially the travel rods. JL 8-Wt Editor

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: I highly recommend the St Croix rods, especially the travel rods. I recently purchased the 8′ 4-5wt and think it casts exceptionally well for a "lower-tech graphite"  I think the 9′ 4-piece is a 6-7 wt.  For the price you can’ go wrong.

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