Question:

I took a few photos this afternoon while skiing. I thought some of you might like to see them. It’s just so beautiful up here in the winter, even though the fishing is nonexistent. The URLs are: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2698.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2704.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2707.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2711.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2718.jpg I’ll admit that I was experimenting with the depth of field of my digital camera. Unfortunately, you can’t get the full effect with these small photos. A 6-megapixel camera and a large print would blow you away. BTW, all shots were hand-held. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

nice shots… richard / colorado

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a few photos this afternoon while skiing. I thought some of you might like to see them. It’s just so beautiful up here in the winter, even though the fishing is nonexistent. The URLs are: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2698.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2704.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2707.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2711.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/p2718.jpg I’ll admit that I was experimenting with the depth of field of my digital camera. Unfortunately, you can’t get the full effect with these small photos. A 6-megapixel camera and a large print would blow you away. BTW, all shots were hand-held. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Nice roff, roffs you have there.   George

Response:

Nice roff, roffs you have there.

They’re the best, George. We communicate telepathically. I’m fortunate to have the finest cross-country skiing you can imagine right out of town, and dogs are very welcome. Arlo, the Golden Retriever, had a lot of problems with getting ice in his paws at first, but the more we do it (like every day) the tougher he gets. The Border Collie, Bee, bounds through the snow like it doesn’t exist. I’m new to cross-country skiing, but I’m finding that it has some similarities to fly fishing. Every day the conditions are a little different. It’s never the same. Not yet, anyway. I love it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Put Gink between his toes or better yet, make him a set of booties.  As a last resort, put cotton around his toes and duck tape but don’t wrap tape.  Squeeze it on. Your Dog’s Pal, George’s Arf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice roff, roffs you have there. They’re the best, George. We communicate telepathically. I’m fortunate to have the finest cross-country skiing you can imagine right out of town, and dogs are very welcome. Arlo, the Golden Retriever, had a lot of problems with getting ice in his paws at first, but the more we do it (like every day) the tougher he gets. The Border Collie, Bee, bounds through the snow like it doesn’t exist. I’m new to cross-country skiing, but I’m finding that it has some similarities to fly fishing. Every day the conditions are a little different. It’s never the same. Not yet, anyway. I love it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Put Gink between his toes or better yet, make him a set of booties.  As a last resort, put cotton around his toes and duck tape but don’t wrap tape.  Squeeze it on.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I’ve been spraying Pam in his paws. It’s cheaper than Gink. I’ve also been trimming the hair in his paws. The more we ski (well, actually I’m the one who skis) the less he needs it. I bought some fancy booties with Velcro strips ($36) and he promptly lost one. What a waste of money. He hated them, too. It was worth the 36 bucks to see him high-stepping around the cabin when I first put them on. I thought I’d die laughing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hunting With Hank, when they put the duck tape boots on Hank, pranced around also.  But they get used to it.  What you have to watch out for is frost bitten toes, this is why insulated foot wear is so important. Pam is a good idea.  Better than my idea by a long shot.  If he stops and licks paws, check time. Love the dogs though, they are beauties! George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Put Gink between his toes or better yet, make him a set of booties.  As a last resort, put cotton around his toes and duck tape but don’t wrap tape.  Squeeze it on. Sorry to disappoint you, but I’ve been spraying Pam in his paws. It’s cheaper than Gink. I’ve also been trimming the hair in his paws. The more we ski (well, actually I’m the one who skis) the less he needs it. I bought some fancy booties with Velcro strips ($36) and he promptly lost one. What a waste of money. He hated them, too. It was worth the 36 bucks to see him high-stepping around the cabin when I first put them on. I thought I’d die laughing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’m new to cross-country skiing, but I’m finding that it has some similarities to fly fishing. Every day the conditions are a little different. It’s never the same. Not yet, anyway. I love it.

I thought I might get a chance to get my skis out in Atlanta yesterday, but the snow melted too fast. I imagine the XC skiing must be great there. What you need is an Iridium phone with the data kit, and then you could upload photos to your site while you are still out skiing. Certainly couldn’t do that with film. <g — Charlie…

Response:

I’m fortunate to have the finest cross-country skiing you can imagine right out of town, and dogs are very welcome….

The downhill’s not too shabby either, but alas, dogs are rarely welcome at a ski resort. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

You guys in Baja Oklahoma should know the difference between Sooners and Okies.   I can steer you to a few bars in Sooner land where calling people Okies won’t make you any friends. The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".   Is "Pride in Ignorance" still the state moto of Texas. Can blame you for living in Oklahoma though. General Sherman was a smart feller, his only mistake was not burning enough of Georgia.

Response:

BJC wrote… The original joke is about the wind in NoDak and it’s "Montana blows and Minnesota sucks".

Hey now, you are one going by "BJC" <bseg — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

Um, I’m not sure of your point, other than perhaps agreeing in pain… TC, R but note – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Can’t stand any Florida teams either. It’s like I told my Husker fan sister last night, those Miami guys are just too fast and better compensated.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guy, just lashing out in pain.  To watch Nebraska go from #2 to #9 in the polls after being really beaten by any Florida based team (though I believe their parole officers are mostly out of state) just really hurts.  Don’t think Solich is gonna get to be a congressman if he keeps this up.         Frank Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

Response:

If your going to steal a quote at least cite the source and get it right. It was Will Rogers and he said the  Okies raised the IQ of both California and Oklahoma

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Big problem in Oklahoma as so many people migrate to Texas. Net effect is to increase the average IQ for both states. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

Damn, Frank. That almost hurts. -Jeff, we call it basketball season

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Them’s fightin’ words.  Go Huskers (and getting your red asses royally beat as we speak).     Three football fans were coming out of a party when they noticed a naked and very, very drunk woman passed out on her back on the front lawn of the local watering hole.  They covered her as best as they could with their hats and called the police.     The police officer took their statements and then, one by one, lifted the hats off the lady and identified the owners.  He took the Nebraska hat off of the left breast, I.D’ed the owner, and recovered the young lady, the Okie hat came off the right breast, ID’ed the owner and recovered the lady’s nakidity.  The officer then lifted the Kansas hat off of the ladies crotch, recovered it, lifted it again, recovered and then checked one more time.     The Kansas fan, slightly perturbed by the whole goings on asked if the policeman was some kind of prevert.  The policeofficer replied, "no, its just that most of the time, under a Kansas hat, I usually find and asshole." Frank Reid  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

WOW Collier, taking time off from your self-penetration to home in on any mention of eBay? Oh, and have an OK day.  Should be a good year for you with the IRS considering your 2001 losses.  Then again, they may just be on their way with an endoscope considering your unreported and ill-gotten ebay income! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Post it.  If it’s a fly fishing book it fits in as well as a Wine Review,  A football pool,  Muskies politics and pictures that show what General Sherman meant when he said " If I owned hell and Texas I’d live in hell and rent Texas out"

Er, except that most of the pics of "Texas" are of Oklahoma…well, I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…."

In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… — Charlie…

Response:

I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"…

I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

"Charlie Choc" wrote  In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… …and Nebraska sucks -Jeff, alive and freezing in the Sunflower State

Response:

There is plenty of income tax in Kansas -Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure you know the old saw: "Why is Texas so windy?  Oakies suck pretty hard…." In Kansas it was windy because "okies blow"… I was talking about their mouths…. TC, R Actually, to be fair, in the area under discussion, without the "State Line" signs on the major north-south highway, you really can’t tell Texas from Oklahoma (which is only one county, about 30 miles, across from north to south, in this area) from So. Kansas (Liberal, KS, about 40 miles from Perryton, TX, is the nearest "big city") and in fact, some operations are in two states.  In fact, many maintain Texas residences and businesses domiciled in Texas as there is no state income tax as in OK and KS.

Response:

Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, now I’m curious…what’s the damn book? Eugene I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate. — Citizen Fisherman …those were top quality table saws…grumble…grumble… OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

Like I said, Ken was exaggerating, as he is prone to do. The Bible is *not* autographed, but it is the original, handwritten version. Price is negotiable, depending on how many you order at one time… Any remaining stock will be auctioned on eBay. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So am I.  Tell me more about the autographed bible and the expected price

Response:

Friendly and predictable, that’s me… — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheesh, it’s like using a friggin’ dog whistle…

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, it would be acceptable, but only after it is cleared by the protocol committee.  If you’ll send me the details on the book, I’ll be happy to forward it on to them…. Seriously, though, generally speaking, the only place a "For Sale" post is _strictly_ appropriate is in a ".forsale" newsgroup or other such newsgroup that specifically allows "for sale" postings.  But ROFF’s charter is, at best, more observed by the ignoring of same. What this means is: "who knows what reaction a particular post might garner?"  If your post is simple, honest posting pointing to a personal sale of a book or books, I’d say post away and ignore any flames.   One thing on pointing to auctions, whether here or another newsgroup, starting the subject line with a "FA:" is considered proper as "FS:" means that it is "for sale," not "for auction."  Also, indicate your location. OTOH, If you have to sell this book to get your wife a new drill press because you ordered too many shitty grey-market Korean table saws from some "friend" whose name escapes you and then wish to sell a first edition of the Bible, autographed by Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, for a gal who works in your office who has no idea of it’s value, watch out… HTH, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron Reinhold

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Well, regulars often post when they’re selling something on eBay, but if you do it out of the blue, as an unknown, you’re likely to get flamed by self-appointed net cops. Thanks for asking. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

"Ron Reinhold"  wrote…  I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay?

Don’t listen to those other guys, they’re only trying to get you into trouble.  The proper protocol is to send the rare flyfishing book to me, for approval. Just happy I could help, Timothy Juvenal

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold

I’d say it’s OK as long as it’s a one time deal.  We do not appreciate continual spamming.  So, if you’re a book dealer or something, you would be better off becoming a regular contributor and put your web site on your signature.  It would be nice if you put a "FS:" at the beginning of your subject line to mark it as a for sale notice.

Response:

I have never used a newsgroup before — I’m wondering if it would be acceptable to the users if I were to post an announcement here that I’m placing a rare flyfishing book for sale on eBay? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Ron Reinhold — Ron Reinhold R.W. Reinhold Co. 4446 Westridge Dr Williamsburg, Michigan 49690 Ph# 231-938-3229  Fax# 231-938-1896

Response:

Question:

Thanks Mike….. -walt At eventide, slanting rays of sunlight, burnish rippling water red and gold,

8<

Response:

Thank you all too.  I was determined not to come back, but life is really too short for buggering about, and I discovered that I miss you all a great deal, it is nice to have friends, even those one may never see. There is really nowhere else where one might obtain the inspiration required for doggerel than this place anyway !!! I may not post quite as often as I once did, but I will be lurking a lot. Tight lines! Mike Connor

The best part is: we knew you were coming so we cleaned up the place! /daytripper (Welcome home, Mike.)

Response:

Mike, Good to see you, or at least your powerful words, again. You were always with us, but I like this better. Danl PS If you’ve been lurking, you know that I’m learning to tie, ahem, dress flies. That web site of yours would sure be handy about now. (hint, hint) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you all too.  I was determined not to come back, but life is really too short for buggering about, and I discovered that I miss you all a great deal, it is nice to have friends, even those one may never see. There is really nowhere else where one might obtain the inspiration required for doggerel than this place anyway !!! I may not post quite as often as I once did, but I will be lurking a lot. Tight lines! Mike Connor

Response:

At eventide, slanting rays of sunlight, burnish rippling water red and gold, trout, at supper then, become less wary and some become quite bold. Angler, having worked quite hard all day, for really very poor returns, redoubles then his efforts, as the waning day to twilight turns. A spinner fall engages trout and angler, trout with abandon, angler tense, another pattern is tied on, and cast with care towards a fishes residence, landing perfectly, the fly floats down, drag free for several nervous feet, then vanishes without a sound, surprise for angler is complete. Awakening at last, from almost too intense and perfect concentration, angler sets the hook, and is rewarded with a surge of wild elation, as trout, far more surprised than angler, tries to be rid of stinging steel, surges strongly down the river, regretting now perhaps the meal. Holding fast, anticipating twists and turns, wild lunges, and even desperate leaps, angler plies his rod with skill, and on the fish, a steady but relentless pressure keeps. Another leap, the rod is bowed, and fish seems weary now, not far from beaten, perhaps he fights so desperately, because he fears he will be killed and eaten? At last the battle turns, and angler triumphantly deploys his landing net, taking care that one last desperate lunge, does not gain fish his freedom yet. silver beauty, pure enchantment, colours highlit by the final rays of summer sun, content, though not a little sad at fishes end, angler packs, another day is done. Homeward then, filled with peace, and dwelling on the days reflections, already planning other trips, and mentally designing deadly fly confections, once more the day has passed, but angling is a thing that never really ends, a pleasure for a man alone, and still a greater one to share with friends. Of such things and more, days filled with pure delight and beauty, are angling dreams, of happy hours spent wandering, with rod and line, by secret and enchanted streams, by mighty rivers, roaring surf, still and hidden pools and lakes, by thunderous waterfall, wherever fish are found, our angler there will venture, he can not resist the call. To pit his wits against the wary fish, see his fill of natures wondrous treasures, what man could be richer? or more blessed?, could there be greater pleasures? to sit in peace beside the rippling gurgling water on a summer day, lost in reverie, far from toil and bustle, and the stressful world, further than this, no man may flee. For many centuries now, ten countless times a thousand men have trod this way, thought much the same perhaps, while thus engaged in sport, as we are now today, cultures change, ideas alter, and much of humankind are followers of fashion, anglers thoughts though stay the same, because they follow this abiding and absorbing passion? How many men I wonder, have been so hopelessly and happily obsessed? immaterial of the changing times, the flies and tools which constantly progressed, odd indeed, that men should take such pleasure from a harmless fishes sad demise, consider though how poor our lives would be, if  fishes ceased from taking flies! TL MC

Response:

Thanks Mike and hopefully welcome back.

Response:

Thanks, Mike. Tom At eventide, slanting rays of sunlight, burnish rippling water red…….

Response:

At eventide, slanting rays of sunlight, burnish rippling water red and gold, trout, at supper then, become less wary and some become quite bold. Angler, having worked quite hard all day, for really very poor returns, redoubles then his efforts, as the waning day to twilight turns.

Hooray.   Let me be the first (okay, second) to say welcome back. Joe F.

Response:

Truly wonderful and long missed prose snipped. Welcome back Mike.  The wandering bard has again alighted in our village.  Lets hope his stay is as dear to him as his wisdom is to us.       Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks Mike, and welcome back! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Thank you all too.  I was determined not to come back, but life is really too short for buggering about, and I discovered that I miss you all a great deal, it is nice to have friends, even those one may never see. There is really nowhere else where one might obtain the inspiration required for doggerel than this place anyway !!!  I may not post quite as often as I once did, but I will be lurking a lot. Tight lines! Mike Connor

Response:

Mike, When some leave the group we’re happy, When you left we all felt real crappy, But now you’re back, The election was whack, and… ahh, crap, my limericks suck. welcome back.  we missed you. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Welcome back to ROFF. Paul

Response:

<snipped Welcome back Mike.  Your contributions are most welcomed and enjoyed. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Oh dear, and after wading through severaI thousand posts, I thought somebody had come up with a new method of learning to cast, which was apparently developed in Florida. It was always difficult timing the punch when casting TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <with his usual style and elegance Welcome back, Mike, and not a moment too soon. This joint could use a touch of class. You may not believe this, but while you were gone, many of our distinguished members have engaged in endless political discussions.  So much so, that complaints have been registered as to the lack of flyfishing content in the newsgroup. Kevin, sleeping easier tonight.

Response:

http://www.mikeconnor.de Hope you enjoy it. TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, Good to see you, or at least your powerful words, again. You were always with us, but I like this better. Danl PS If you’ve been lurking, you know that I’m learning to tie, ahem, dress flies. That web site of yours would sure be handy about now. (hint, hint)

Response:

<with his usual style and elegance Welcome back, Mike, and not a moment too soon. This joint could use a touch of class. You may not believe this, but while you were gone, many of our distinguished members have engaged in endless political discussions.  So much so, that complaints have been registered as to the lack of flyfishing content in the newsgroup. Kevin, sleeping easier tonight.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At eventide, slanting rays of sunlight, burnish rippling water red and gold, trout, at supper then, become less wary and some become quite bold. Angler, having worked quite hard all day, for really very poor returns, redoubles then his efforts, as the waning day to twilight turns. A spinner fall engages trout and angler, trout with abandon, angler tense, another pattern is tied on, and cast with care towards a fishes residence, landing perfectly, the fly floats down, drag free for several nervous feet, then vanishes without a sound, surprise for angler is complete. Awakening at last, from almost too intense and perfect concentration, angler sets the hook, and is rewarded with a surge of wild elation, as trout, far more surprised than angler, tries to be rid of stinging steel, surges strongly down the river, regretting now perhaps the meal. Holding fast, anticipating twists and turns, wild lunges, and even desperate leaps, angler plies his rod with skill, and on the fish, a steady but relentless pressure keeps. Another leap, the rod is bowed, and fish seems weary now, not far from beaten, perhaps he fights so desperately, because he fears he will be killed and eaten? At last the battle turns, and angler triumphantly deploys his landing net, taking care that one last desperate lunge, does not gain fish his freedom yet. silver beauty, pure enchantment, colours highlit by the final rays of summer sun, content, though not a little sad at fishes end, angler packs, another day is done. Homeward then, filled with peace, and dwelling on the days reflections, already planning other trips, and mentally designing deadly fly confections, once more the day has passed, but angling is a thing that never really ends, a pleasure for a man alone, and still a greater one to share with friends. Of such things and more, days filled with pure delight and beauty, are angling dreams, of happy hours spent wandering, with rod and line, by secret and enchanted streams, by mighty rivers, roaring surf, still and hidden pools and lakes, by thunderous waterfall, wherever fish are found, our angler there will venture, he can not resist the call. To pit his wits against the wary fish, see his fill of natures wondrous treasures, what man could be richer? or more blessed?, could there be greater pleasures? to sit in peace beside the rippling gurgling water on a summer day, lost in reverie, far from toil and bustle, and the stressful world, further than this, no man may flee. For many centuries now, ten countless times a thousand men have trod this way, thought much the same perhaps, while thus engaged in sport, as we are now today, cultures change, ideas alter, and much of humankind are followers of fashion, anglers thoughts though stay the same, because they follow this abiding and absorbing passion? How many men I wonder, have been so hopelessly and happily obsessed? immaterial of the changing times, the flies and tools which constantly progressed, odd indeed, that men should take such pleasure from a harmless fishes sad demise, consider though how poor our lives would be, if  fishes ceased from taking flies! TL MC

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I didn’t even make the freaking list–nor did I go fishing this weekend. Man alive. I guess I’m gonna hafta call my mom and tell her never to come visit again. Otherwise, I won’t be able to keep up with the Joneses…er, Wolfgangs. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing!

Response:

…         but a night with the check out lady at the pixie motel after an evening embellished by a neil young cd marathon and re-heated pizza during rest breaks would render you positively cuddly, forty ol man.

I’m confident that "little wayno’s cuddle therapy and aerobic exercise program" would render me cuddly but I’m afraid I just couldn’t bring myself to eat re-heated pizza. — Ken Fortenberry- gotta draw the line somewhere

Response:

Lemme guess, are you in Minnesota, or thereabouts?  We had a system blow through here on Friday, had a good 7 inches on the ground Saturday morning. Put a real damper on the weekend fishing plans.

Nope..Denver.  It snowed pretty much all day Saturday, but without significant accumulation.  Sunday was nice, though, and yesterday was 80s again.

Response:

day tripper writes: CRAP! I’ve slipped to number 14 – even HWMNBN held me higher than that! /daytripper (I was Number 6 once! ;^)

And yesterday you were in #2, deep into #2 with a broken wading stick!   Shoot, if we didn’t go fishing yesterday, we coulda both been higher in the stats. Dave LaCourse

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Hell Kevin, I couldn’t be "really nice" if you promised me a private concert by the Guarneri String Quartet, dinner for two catered by Rick Bayless and a night of sweaty sex with Gabrielle Reece.

        of course not; who could, left to be entertained by those pallid pretenders.         but a night with the check out lady at the pixie motel after an evening embellished by a neil young cd marathon and re-heated pizza during rest breaks would render you positively cuddly, forty ol man.         wayno

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<list snipped Damn, I better start participating more. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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Not yet maybe some time in the next week

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing! Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse     Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz     Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish     MFassett     Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor     rw 13  Walt Winter     Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker     Warren Findley Let’s see, I have been out of the office for about 64 hours or so.  Assuming that Wolfgang sleeps 8 hours per night (though I frankly don’t have much faith in that assumption) then he was awake for 40 hours, then he fires off an average of 1.525 posts per hour while he is awake.  Though when I look at the time stamps on his posts, he often fires off messages in bursts of more than one per minute.  Hell, I couldn’t even type that fast, much less read all of the messages and think of what I wanted to say. Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Next weekend is a holiday, and you most likely don’t have to go to work on Friday.  Pull the plug on that damn computer, load up the fly rods and the kids and the dog or whatever, and go fishing.  Get a tan on that pasty white skin.  Next Monday, I want to see some fishing reports on here, dammit! Wolfgang, I believe its time for your friends and loved ones to do an intervention… Kevin PS.  The doctor also prescribes that you should all catch, kill, fry, and eat one cast-iron skillet full of your favorite panfish. He believes that will go a long way towards calming down the level of bitchiness that has been permeating the board for quite some time now.

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Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF,

        great post.         to paraphrase a great american, who was speaking about a small college in new hampshire, may i say this about roff:         it is a small place, sir; but there are those of us who love it. wayno

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stuck in the middle again…. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing! Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse     Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz     Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish     MFassett     Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor     rw 13  Walt Winter     Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker     Warren Findley Let’s see, I have been out of the office for about 64 hours or so.  Assuming that Wolfgang sleeps 8 hours per night (though I frankly don’t have much faith in that assumption) then he was awake for 40 hours, then he fires off an average of 1.525 posts per hour while he is awake.  Though when I look at the time stamps on his posts, he often fires off messages in bursts of more than one per minute.  Hell, I couldn’t even type that fast, much less read all of the messages and think of what I wanted to say. Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Next weekend is a holiday, and you most likely don’t have to go to work on Friday.  Pull the plug on that damn computer, load up the fly rods and the kids and the dog or whatever, and go fishing.  Get a tan on that pasty white skin.  Next Monday, I want to see some fishing reports on here, dammit! Wolfgang, I believe its time for your friends and loved ones to do an intervention… Kevin PS.  The doctor also prescribes that you should all catch, kill, fry, and eat one cast-iron skillet full of your favorite panfish. He believes that will go a long way towards calming down the level of bitchiness that has been permeating the board for quite some time now.

Response:

Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing! Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse     Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz     Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish     MFassett     Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor     rw 13  Walt Winter     Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker     Warren Findley Let’s see, I have been out of the office for about 64 hours or so.  Assuming that Wolfgang sleeps 8 hours per night (though I frankly don’t have much faith in that assumption) then he was awake for 40 hours, then he fires off an average of 1.525 posts per hour while he is awake.  Though when I look at the time stamps on his posts, he often fires off messages in bursts of more than one per minute.  Hell, I couldn’t even type that fast, much less read all of the messages and think of what I wanted to say. Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Next weekend is a holiday, and you most likely don’t have to go to work on Friday.  Pull the plug on that damn computer, load up the fly rods and the kids and the dog or whatever, and go fishing.  Get a tan on that pasty white skin.  Next Monday, I want to see some fishing reports on here, dammit! Wolfgang, I believe its time for your friends and loved ones to do an intervention… Kevin PS.  The doctor also prescribes that you should all catch, kill, fry, and eat one cast-iron skillet full of your favorite panfish. He believes that will go a long way towards calming down the level of bitchiness that has been permeating the board for quite some time now.

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Here are the most prolific posters, in order:

What’s the ranking by word count? Who uses the most vowels? — Charlie…

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Geez, … I find 600 messages! …  

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that you were not forced at gunpoint to read even one of those messages. Which begs the question, what in the hell are you whining about ? — Ken Fortenberry

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sunofabeech… the thought of wayno posting as much as me just rankles the shitoughta me. 14 at ya wayno ;^) waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing! Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse     Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz     Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish     MFassett     Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor     rw 13  Walt Winter     Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker     Warren Findley Let’s see, I have been out of the office for about 64 hours or so.  Assuming that Wolfgang sleeps 8 hours per night (though I frankly don’t have much faith in that assumption) then he was awake for 40 hours, then he fires off an average of 1.525 posts per hour while he is awake.  Though when I look at the time stamps on his posts, he often fires off messages in bursts of more than one per minute.  Hell, I couldn’t even type that fast, much less read all of the messages and think of what I wanted to say. Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Next weekend is a holiday, and you most likely don’t have to go to work on Friday.  Pull the plug on that damn computer, load up the fly rods and the kids and the dog or whatever, and go fishing.  Get a tan on that pasty white skin.  Next Monday, I want to see some fishing reports on here, dammit! Wolfgang, I believe its time for your friends and loved ones to do an intervention… Kevin PS.  The doctor also prescribes that you should all catch, kill, fry, and eat one cast-iron skillet full of your favorite panfish. He believes that will go a long way towards calming down the level of bitchiness that has been permeating the board for quite some time now.

– Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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A check was done on ROFF to see who was most prolific, Wolfgang won with sixty one, 1.525 per hour to be specific. Charlie asked then for more info, especially regarding vowels, perhaps it would be more informative to check on movements of the bowels ? This would explain a lot, and is not at all designed to slight the winner, but quite a lot of posts arise it seems from an undigested dinner, it is well known that poor digestion may result in bellyaching, and even those without this malady, seem pretty good at faking. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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/daytripper (I was Number 6 once! ;^)

Yeah, yeah.  You coulda been a contender.  Bunch a has beens and never wases.  Come ta Nort Carolina kid, I’ll learn ya sumthin.

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If you’re really nice to me, I might be able to tell you where to find a spring-fed cool water stream that has smallmouth and rock bass in it, only minutes away from the Cham-bana city limits.  But only if you’re really nice… Kevin MS Math, ‘86, UIUC

Kevin, Would you be so kind as to do me and a few other clavesters a favor…. don’t tell Ken… tell me/us. We’ll have a blast listening to him begging and whining for the details at the upcoming clave …. hell, he may even be civil if we play our cards right waldo

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… If I was, I might complain about the tone of hostility in some of the posts, but I’ve noticed that everybody who’s done that in the past has been flamed medium rare.

Whiners rarely get off medium rare. They’re usually flamed to a blackened piece of charred cinder. …  But only if you’re really nice…

Hell Kevin, I couldn’t be "really nice" if you promised me a private concert by the Guarneri String Quartet, dinner for two catered by Rick Bayless and a night of sweaty sex with Gabrielle Reece. — Ken Fortenberry

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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that you were not forced at gunpoint to read even one of those messages. Which begs the question, what in the hell are you whining about ? — Ken Fortenberry

Don’t worry, I didn’t bother reading them all, and I wasn’t whining. Merely expressing amazement…  If I was, I might complain about the tone of hostility in some of the posts, but I’ve noticed that everybody who’s done that in the past has been flamed medium rare.  So I definitely won’t complain about that. If you’re really nice to me, I might be able to tell you where to find a spring-fed cool water stream that has smallmouth and rock bass in it, only minutes away from the Cham-bana city limits.  But only if you’re really nice… Kevin MS Math, ‘86, UIUC

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Also, in my own defense, I must say that I was pissing away my time at work, not my fishing time.  :-) I’ll quit now before I make my own list. Kevin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, I go home for the weekend, and when I fire up the computer on Monday morning and check out ROFF, I find 600 messages!  Some of which were even about fishing! Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse    Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz    Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish    MFassett    Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor    rw 13  Walt Winter    Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker    Warren Findley

CRAP! I’ve slipped to number 14 – even HWMNBN held me higher than that! /daytripper (I was Number 6 once! ;^)

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I got a staff writes this shit for me.  Frankly, I rarely even check the board any more; who’s got time to read?.  I get hourly synopses from my secretary.  I tell her "three fuck yous, two one liners, and a couplea hey good buddies", or whatever.  Two, three lawyers and a couplea high school kids sits in the back room and write.  I get a sheet with all kindsa crap on it.  I check this one, cross out that one, yada, yada, yada.  61 over the course of the weekend, huh?  Somebody’s slippin in some of his own stuff.  I never authorized that many.  Heads will fuckin roll!!  Thanks for the heads up.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are the most prolific posters, in order: 61  Wolfgang Siebeniech 38  Muskie 27  Chip Bartholomay 25  Dave LaCourse     Vern Ursenbach 23  Guyz N Flyz     Ken Fortenberry 20  ET1 19  Charlie Choc 18  JeffC 1474 17  flyfish     MFassett     Peter Charles 15  Daytripper 14  Mike Connor     rw 13  Walt Winter     Wayne Harrison 10  Dave Snedeker     Warren Findley Let’s see, I have been out of the office for about 64 hours or so.  Assuming that Wolfgang sleeps 8 hours per night (though I frankly don’t have much faith in that assumption) then he was awake for 40 hours, then he fires off an average of 1.525 posts per hour while he is awake.  Though when I look at the time stamps on his posts, he often fires off messages in bursts of more than one per minute.  Hell, I couldn’t even type that fast, much less read all of the messages and think of what I wanted to say. Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Next weekend is a holiday, and you most likely don’t have to go to work on Friday.  Pull the plug on that damn computer, load up the fly rods and the kids and the dog or whatever, and go fishing.  Get a tan on that pasty white skin.  Next Monday, I want to see some fishing reports on here, dammit! Wolfgang, I believe its time for your friends and loved ones to do an intervention…

Of course one could say the same about someone who went through the trouble of compiling a listing of the number of times people posted in a 64 hour period….     – Ken

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Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing!

Yep…sure is, but it snowed here Saturday, so there was not much fishing opportunity.  Had to do something!

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Of course one could say the same about someone who went through the trouble of compiling a listing of the number of times people posted in a 64 hour period….     – Ken

Actually, that very thought occured to me while I was doing it. Fortunately, thanks the miracle of modern technology, it didn’t take but a few clicks of the mouse to do.  I do graciously accept the honorable mention prize in the time wasting competition. Kevin

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Look out the windows, boys; its spring!  Time to go fishing! Yep…sure is, but it snowed here Saturday, so there was not much fishing opportunity.  Had to do something!

Lemme guess, are you in Minnesota, or thereabouts?  We had a system blow through here on Friday, had a good 7 inches on the ground Saturday morning. Put a real damper on the weekend fishing plans. Kevin

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Question:

Hi gang,   I’m fishing this area while on vacation next week. I’d be glad to hear any advice from people who know the area. I’m looking to catch trout, not planning to keep any, and hope to get some photos of some nice ones. Jerry

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Check out the thread "Michigan Flyfishing Spots For Vacation" George Adams

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Try http://www.troutbums.com/.

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Question:

Anyone out there fish the Deschutes River.  Looking for someone to share information with.

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Anyone out there fish the Deschutes River.  Looking for someone to share information with.

I fish the lower 20 miles of the Deschutes.  I already have had freinds catch some steelhead.  this is th time of the year to get to the river and swing a fly across the current….hang on, he will jerk the rod out of your hand. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

#but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse #Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where #he stands, #he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. somebody said back there a bit–if it’s true, why isn’t Jesse insisting that the coons stay in their own part of town as he did back in the good old days? Helms changes, like everybody whose standards are flexible and who considers himself to be a man of principle but returns to the senate voluntarily.  (and many thinking folks hope he comes to his senses.) As for Gierach, he’s an excellent stylist with an ironic wit, and it’s all fiction mind you, which appellation our BB seems to aspire to much more recently. "Strait-laced" as Shakespeare (or should I say the Earl of Oxford?) had it–the pompous Malvolio of Twelfth Night made a fool of himself by coming around in the opposite look, the dandified and contrived "cross-gartered" style. . .in other words, he went out as what he wasn’t, and was laughed off the creek for it.  Went insane, if I remember correctly.  And Shakespeare wrote about what he wasn’t for a buck, collected "such rascal counters" happily; he would have signed his name for more if he’d had the chance, I reckon. Dave

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I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

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I met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop… John was

actually very pleasant and even though he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. … he seemed like a pretty decent guy,besides being a great writer! Hey Skilch, you’re right about Gierach. I live "up the road" from John, and bump into him, Mike, and the clan on the high country streams occasionally. I’ve also yakked with him at Mike’s rod shop, and been to John’s fly tying clinics. I don’t know Gierach very well, but I like the guy – and I certainly admire what he’s been able to accomplish in his career. Anybody who can win the Robert Traver Award for excellence in outdoor writing, author thousands of magazine articles, newspapers columns, and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success. Too bad. Regards, Dennis

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[deleted] and ten of the best selling fly fishing books in recent history is bound to invite some criticism from those who wish to hell they had his gift – and his success.

Please. Noone (at least not me) is being critical of either: 1) the fact that john is a nice guy  or 2) that they envy his gifts. If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no need to defend him on those scores. In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I enjoy John Geirach at least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.   I like Ted Lesson’s writing better than Gierach. Again, it has nothing to do with John being a good guy or a clever successful hard-working man.  I am certain that he is all that.  You don’t buy a flyrod or a car for that matter just because the builder is a ‘nice guy’.   I liked James Bashline, who was not a writer, really…but offered me something of value in "Nightfishing for Trout". A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content.  The best thing you could do as a writer is get Nick Lyon’s in your court.  That is power there. The number of sales define the number of awards and some of us are simply critical of the writing itself and are not star struck, nor do we have penis envy.  In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.   To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.   So sue me. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?   To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most do. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be proud of.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Does Gierach still live in Lyons? I spent summers there (I’m an East Coast boy) in the early ’70’s and fished the St. Vrain top to bottom–my grandfather owned the trailer park in the big bend just outside of Lyons (next box up from the park.) I think I trespassed on his property a few times. Dave

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:I enjoy John Geirach at :least as much or more than E. Donnel Thomas, "Whitefish Can’t Jump", but :they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not :define great writers. You were doing just fine Moe until you said the above which caused me to laugh out loud. You can’t take those darn short stories seriously, you slay me sometimes… TC

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they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not define great writers.

I gotta wonder what Ernest Hemmingway woulda said about that. Big Two Hearted River for example, is far from simple. Ben

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: In my critical estimation, as a consumer of flyfishing books, John Gierach : is a good writer, but not a great writer.  He got someone to publish him, in : my opinion, and the rest is history.   Steve Spinolio is a better writer, in : my book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham.   I didn’t know Spinolio had written anything beyond a post or two, one of which I have on my office wall.  Where can I find his writing?  

Any idea when he is to return? Or if he will? Kiyu

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I actually met John Gierach in Lyons, Colorado at Mike Clarks shop  this last fall.  We stopped by the shop on our way to the Frying Pan.  John G.  was actually very pleasant and eventhough he didn’t have to stay and talk, he did. I haven’t read all the posts about him, but wanted to put in me 2 cents worth about my brief contact with him and how he seemed like a pretty decent guy, besides being a great writer!

If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. I predict with the former.  One problem I see here is that many insist on judging him as a flyfisherman, based on his writings. The only way you can judge him as a flyfisher, is to fly fish with him. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you will. On that basis I find him well worth an evening in the easy chair. Since I haven’t fished with him, I can’t comment on the other. DAO DAO

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If Geirach is really the guy he says he is in his writing, then he reallly

doesn’t give a rat’s ass about all these postings about him, pro and con. If he logs on to defend himself, you may be assured he is a fraud. Funny you should bring that up, Dale. I was with John for an hour or so last week, and asked him if he was aware of the dialog about him on the internet. He just chuckled and said, "Yeah,  the guys told me about it. Sounds like those people are pissing away some good fishing time wrangling over nothing." … or words to that effect. He won’t be logging on. He doesn’t own a computer. As a reader, you must judge him as an outdoor writer, an entertainer, if you

will. On that basis I find him, well worth an evening in the easy chair.< Precisely.

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If you read past the subject line in these posts, you would have had no needto

defend him on those scores. Your right Moe, I was arguing apples and oranges here. My apologies.  He got someone to publish him, in

my opinion, and the rest is history. Right again, but he didn’t get just "anyone" to publish him. Pruett, Lyons, Simon & Shuster and Stackpole are hardly the kind of publishing houses to invest in ho-hum writers. <  Steve Spinolio is a better writer, inmy book, than John Gierach, or Russell Chatham … or E. Donnel Thomas I’m not familiar with Spinolio. Is he someone I should be reading. Know where I can find any of his stuff?, but they are very much on the same, simple, short story format that does not

define great writers.  I suspect you may open a real can of worms with that judgement, Moe. A sad truth is, IMO, the sale of books often has as much to do with the

publishers backing them and the level of gloss on the dust jacket as it does quality of content. Maybe, but again, big publishing houses aren’t likely to invest in writers whose work doesn’t sell. As for" quality of content", that’s a pretty subjective matter.   The number of sales define the number of awards… I’m not so sure that’s an accurate statement. Lyons didn’t publish Trout Bum, nor much of Gierach’s other works. And if I’m not mistaken, John won the Traver Award for a fictional piece that appeared in FR & R. nor do we have penis envy.

????Where’d that come from?   In Johns case, he has moments of really good stuff, but overall the stuff is repetitive, monotonous, politically correct and often boring.  To me, life offers more exciting fishing trips than John Gierach does in his writing.  So sue me. Actually, I’d rather go fishing with you, but If I were to sue-  and win – how much could I get? later DES

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To be a writer, one must write.  I battle with this everyday.  I suspect most

do. Amen to that. At the very least, Gierach writes in large amount.  That’s something to be

proud of. And to that one, as well. DES

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

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I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

Response:

I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own. I pose a question to any of you who find it within your right to criticize John at a personal or professional level:Have you ever had a conversation with the man? Do you know him and how he lives and his quality of life? I think that most critics would say NO to these questions. John is a very simple man. He’s a very acute journalist who has developed a style both in and out of the newspapers of his own. He is a fine flyfisherman and a generally nice guy to know. Most people who know him feel the same way. If one thing you can say of John, and I hope not to insult him with this comparison, but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time, like most of us. So don’t wander down a road that you’re not familiar with, you may hit a tree or a parked car or Butch, the local dog who everybody in town knows would be sleeping in the road at 2:00pm on a tuesday. It might be hazardous. Jim Brady

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Another follow-up on this thread… Just don’t read or buy the books he has written if you don’t like his writing.  As for me, I like a lot of what John has written. Most of his writing is non-technical, and therefore fine pleasure reading, if I’m into it. While Christmas cleaning btw, I perused through a lot of old Fly Fisherman and Rod and Reel Mags in my collection dating all the way back to the early eighties.  The writer in question (John) has been around for a long time, has "paid his dues," and in a professional sense is worthy of respect even if many people don’t like his work.  No need for debate or slander of the individual on a ng forum. Wayne Fenior Midland, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was with you until you last paragraph. Literature, great and small, is open game to critics and it is wonderful for an author to have a defender. But, to think that people offer an descenting opinion because they are jealous of a guy who fishes for a living is absurd. By in large, my fly fishers are smarter and better read than that. It’s an opinion. Agree. Disagree. Who cares. I can speak to the issue with a decent amount of authority. I have been in the communications industry for 27-plus years and have only fly fished for half that time. Gierach is a fine writer. I have most of his books. But, I think we all can agree that he is not producing groundbreaking work here. His stuff is Day Berry In Waders, whihc is fine. Hell, Dave Berry won a Pulitzer. As much as I like Gierach, he gets, like anyone else who writes for pay alot, myself included, formulaic, and hence some of his stuff becomes "typical". Knowing where someone stands is not necessarily the greatest commendation one can make about literature. Read Mein Kampf and you know where that guy stood too! My view is simple, stuff like Gierach’s should entertain and inform. Period. I do not expect it to change my life or create a new vision for my life. I leave that to far better writers with something to say on the topic. But, as for whiling away an evening after slaving over a hot word processor all day, I’ll take Gierach any day of the week. Ask the man and I am sure he will tell you he is not out to change the world. He’;s a writer and damn few of us are good enough to change the world. But, if we any good at what we do, we can inform and entertain for a while, even a moment. So, lighten up! Besides, I think Gierach is a big boy and can defend himself nicely. Hollis

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Tim, I think if I could paraphrase your response–if you’re gonna set up shop as an icon (or let others set you up), you better expect some iconoclasts will come along. It goes with the job. I have to agree…good, not great. Trouble is, good writers don’t usually stay in print 50 years later. And in 100 years, no one remembers who the good writers were. That’s a tribute for great writers, and I don’t think we should start throwing that appelation around lightly. BTW–do you know where these straight-laced, stoic fishermen are. They’re not around here, that’s for damned sure! I don’t think I last an afternoon fishing with one of ‘em! Roger

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman find the time to criticize one of their own.

        (lots of stuff snipped) , but hes like the Senator from my state Jesse Helms. You may not always agree with him but you always know where he stands, he doesn’t teeter or waiver from his beliefs. A quality I believe to be a goal for most men.

        let me tell you, jack, that he is also my senior senator, a fact that renders me nauseous, but is presently unavoidable.  and if you think ol jesse wouldn’t sell every goddam inch of hazel creek to the highest bidder in the tree cuttin industry, then you are blind as a bat.  and having read gierach, i can’t believe he would accept such a comparison. The other point is I believe that most flyfisherman, a strangely stoic bunch as it goes, are somewhat jealous of a man who can do what most of us want to do ALL the time instead of just some of the time,

        how much the guy fishes has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of his prose.  which, imho, is very high.  but your apology for him, in the face of timbo’s protestations, is lamentable.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

Is it really you ?  I thought you were dead ? Comparing Gierach to Shakespeare ? Like the guy that painted a happy face on a dairy cows underside. Udderly Silly. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I find it humerous that all these straight laced flyfisherman

I’ve spent enough time around this group the past couple of years to know that most of the laces don’t get any crookeder than the ones you’ll find round here. Nope…not a straight lace in the bunch (I say that with pride, so don’t anyone get offended). Roger

Response:

Much of Shakepeare’s work was "formulaic" and "Typical" yet in retrospect his work is viewed as "ground breaking".  Perhaps Gierach’s stuff needs the appreciation that only time and distance can impart to the nonappreciative and overly cautious segments of his audience.

I would have to disagree on calling much of Shakespeare formulaic or typical. Sure, he may have used some common conventions and story lines adopted from other sources, but if you compare Shakespeare’s King Lear, for example, with contemporary version’s like Nahum Tate’s, Big Bill the Bard’s on a whole new plane. As for Geirach I don’t think the same can be said. I have read and enjoyed his work as light reading over my lunch hour. Or on a camping trip. Groundbreaking? Unconventional? Original? I don’t think so. There is very little that hasn’t been done before by others, and won’t be done again. It’s not even a terribly distinctive voice. This doesn’t make it unpleasant or without value. But I don’t think it’s the kind of stuff posterity is going to elevate into the canon of great works. If you went back 100-200 years and looked at the best selling books…other than the bible, you probably wouldn’t recogize many of them. The reason they were so popular was not that they were original, but rather that they perfectly mimicked the conventions of their day. They appealed to contemporary tastes. That…I think…is what Geirach does. He ain’t writing for the ages. Roger

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Seems to me that how nice a guy a person is, how authentic or otherwise attractive his lifestyle might ain’t got a lot to do with the quality of his writing, and thus the orig. poster just misses the point of some of Gierach’s detractors entirely. Hemmingway, for instance, does not seem to be the kind of guy one would enjoy spending lots of time with, and while through happy circumstances I can afford to fish as much as Gierach (or maybe even more), that don’t make me a writer.         That said, I think that most if not all of Gierach’s detractors miss a point too, and that is that almost no author I know of who has turned out more than just a book or two is able to maintain the same quality of prose over and over and over again. But even then, there are authors who write one great great work and then are either silent or write crap, and others who simply maintain a fairly high level consistently  throughout their careers.         For my money I suspect some of Gierach’s stuff

Question:

hi fly fish mates, I am looking for someone living near an orvis shop. in the future i need to order my regular stuff, like leaders, fly’s etc. So if you wanna help me, with first : sending the latest orvis brochure and when i like to order some help, please E mail me !

Steer your favorite web browser to this URL: <http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/Catalog/Catalog.html I believe they even have the ability to order via the web with secured transactions. Good luck, Joe Webb Atlanta Mac User Group (AMUG)

Response:

: hi fly fish mates, : I am looking for someone living near an orvis shop. : in the future i need to order my regular stuff, like leaders, fly’s etc. : So if you wanna help me, with first : sending the latest orvis brochure and : when i like to order some help, please E mail me ! Orvis *HAS* mail order!  I don’t understand why you need someone to order for you? Jon Porter

Response:

hi fly fish mates, I am looking for someone living near an orvis shop. in the future i need to order my regular stuff, like leaders, fly’s etc. So if you wanna help me, with first : sending the latest orvis brochure and when i like to order some help, please E mail me !

Response:

Question:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the

If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

PMD emergers are hot right now.

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty). If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

Thankfully this high water misconception has curbed the number of ff’ers on the Provo lately.  This is nice as we’ve been catching anywhere from 5 to 10 fish an hour without too many neighbors.  The water is especially clear also, allowing you to see many of the fish.  This also makes for fish holding in very predictable places.  (ie slower deeper water)  The fly selection, now that’s the part that will make or break your day as well. Happy Trails and tattered flies. Curtis Fry FFFTWKISS!!!!

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast. PMD emergers are hot right now.

Mike,         Can you give me a description on the PMD emerger.  I dont know if I have         ever seen one before.         Thanks

Response:

I try to fish it on a regular basis since I’m only 15 min. from it. We have had a late spring & the runoff is hitting it hard right now. There are still places to get on it but it’s tough fishing(fast, deep & a little dirty).

I’m moving to Draper this month and have tried the Provo on several occasions.  The dirty water has perplexed me… I’m assuming it has to do with the releases from the dam upstream? With the road construction several years ago did the fishing change somewhat? If the water flow slows down it has good potential in July. I’d try; Chamois Caddis 14 – 18, Sow Bug 18 – 20, Brassies 16 – 18, Pheasant Tials 12 – 18. Fish it right on the bottom or on the edges. Towards evening there should be some surface activity. If it’s too high to get on take a ride up above Deer Creek to Charleston or Midway & fish that section, My brother in law loves it up there, he’s been doing well with a San Juan worm. It’s only another 20 min. from Sundance. Clint

I want to try the upper section myself. Any advice about access etc.? Coming from an area where my favorite waters are 4 to 5 hrs away, I am indeed excited about living close to the Provo (and Green) Trust I will bump into you on the river some day.         Wherever you go…. There you will be.

Response:

Any advice on the Provo River?  Going to Sundance in July for some R & R and some flyfishing.  Hear that nymphing is the best way to go.  What is the If you go the "nymphing" route, you should do ok.  The weather is fairly warm, and the river usually gets crowded really fast.

The Provo is a wonderful river, but nymphs are your only hope.  However, you won’t have to worry about crowds until the 9-5 crowd gets out from work.  You won’t have *much* problem mornings or early afternoons, except for us lousy college students The weather will be hot.  Be prepared for some heat; I’d leave my neoprenes at home.  The river is also higher this year than it has been in the past, but since you are just coming for a vacation, that won’t matter to you, will it? best o’ luck, Jeff Windsor

Response:

Question:

I’ll keep this short & sweet.   We’re just learning to fly fish. We’d like to go somewhere and practice our casting and line handling skills in moving water in mid-May. We’d prefer not to need waders.  We’d prefer not to drive too far from the Bay Area. It’s not crucial that we actually Catch Fish, but it would be more fun if we thought we had at least some tiny chance of doing so. I thought about the American R. in Sacramento, but don’t know the shoreline. Is it possible to fish w/o waders?  Are there some clear, non-brushy areas where we won’t get too many snags on the back cast? I’d prefer not to go to the Russian R., because we drive north on 101 several times a year for wine tasting etc., and we’re just getting a little bored with it. I know a nice wide open gravel-banked stretch of the McCloud river, but that’s a pretty hefty drive. Any advice, tips, etc? Thanks Mark

Response:

We’d like to go somewhere and practice our casting and line handling skills in moving water in mid-May.

Mark, The water’s not moving, and you surely won’t catch fish, but a good place to practice casting is at the casting pools in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. There are generally plenty of expert casters hanging around the pools who are willing to offer casting advice to beginners. It doesn’t take the place of actually being astream, but it’s quite convenient… Fred —         Fred L. Templin

Response:

(Mark Hurwitz) writes: I’d prefer not to go to the Russian R., because we drive north on 101 several times a year for wine tasting etc., and we’re just getting a little bored with it

Weelll, isn’t that special?:) I’m so happy Mark and his friend are adding flyfishing to their collectoin of really cool things to do. I don’t suppose Mark will be arriving at streamside in a late model BMW now will he? It’s FISHING, Mark, you’re supposed to get wet, and tangled up in "brushey areas which snag the backcast".  All I can say is: good luck, and don’t leave home w/out your american express card. P. Dundon

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