Question:

The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I truly believed it.

You should believe it because it’s true. The people I know of already participate other FF forums. They, like me, aren’t interested in a new group. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners.

There are other people here that are "fucking tired" of other things in ROFF. I will continue to criticize ROFF when I think it’s appropriate. ROFF is not sacred. I won’t do this through email. Here’s a suggestion for you, have the "membership" make a rule. Anything goes on ROFF except for criticism of ROFF itself. That will get rid of this "whiner." Willi

Response:

Yes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Yes Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes. The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Don’t go changing,to try and please me,You never worked that hard before.I couldn’t love you any better,I love you just the way you are.Nooooooooooooooooo!     OT:Went to the surf last night for the first time this year.Caught two 20"stripers(no strippers in sight)Had two walk two miles wearing neoprene to get to the good spot.It was worth it.Had the beach all to myself and a glorious sunset to boot.I always get this shock of recognition every year when I catch the first one;I forget just how amazingly strong these fish are.Schoolie fish had my reel screaming and my rod bent over.I can’t imagine what it must be like to land a large one,say 36".Maybe this year I’ll get lucky and find out. Regards,Shawn

Response:

I’d vote yes… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post.

Response:

In addition to Roff, I’ve been frequenting The Virtual Flyshop (Bulletin Board), upon the suggestion of others at Roff.  It provides excellent, mostly on-topic, civil discussions.  Lots of collective fly-fishing knowledge shared. Very newbie friendly.  And I understand that there are other similar resources.  With all these resources available why bother to develop an antiseptic ROFF alternative?  Not that I’m crazy about some of the outright nastiness on ROFF. I am just choosing to ignore it as often as possible. Pat K

Response:

Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape? DMS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape? DMS

Dennis I’ve only been to the Cape twice so I’m not what you’d call an authority.  I fished at Barnstable Harbour, Pleasant Bay near Chatham and the Coast Guard Beach on the Atlantic side at the north end. There’s some pictures a some descriptions on mt site under "Trips". Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape?

www.flyfishing-the-salt Sorry if anyone else already posted this, but my newserver went down last night and has been acting funny. Mu

Response:

Question:

Give it a break Ken.

Response:

Xref: news-feed.riddles.org.uk rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:48523 Xref: ratbert.tds.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:183077 … Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is. More like poking a pile of dog shit and then complaining about the smell. — Ken Fortenberry

_______  You and I will meet one day, face to face. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Some of the fellows in this group will try to goad Mr. G into a rant and then spend weeks talking about it. Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is.

LOL, I’ve learned. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Faeces to faeces? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More like poking a pile of dog shit and then complaining about the smell. — Ken Fortenberry _______  You and I will meet one day, face to face. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Some of the fellows in this group will try to goad Mr. G into a rant and then spend weeks talking about it. Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is.       Jim

In your opinion, FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Faeces to faeces?

        we have yet another nomination for european post of the year! wayno

Response:

What in th’ world?  Is this testing actually necessary?

Many have wondered whether this news group is necessary.  I am working on the definitive answer.  Will keep you posted.      

Response:

Got May issue of Fly Fisherman today and the ad on page 11 looked like Walt tryingto guide me up Wilson’s Creek last fall.  Know its not Pamlico Jim as he would be running.  Picture on Page 53 shows spot where I camped for three days last summer. Rocks were not slippery, and no rododendums got in mnto my fly.  I enjoyed both and plan to attend both eastern and Western claves this manhattens.   No I do not plan to play tennis or get drunk.  Indian Joe  Wilmington N.C.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Xref: news-feed.riddles.org.uk rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:48523 Xref: ratbert.tds.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:183077 … Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is. More like poking a pile of dog shit and then complaining about the smell. — Ken Fortenberry _______  You and I will meet one day, face to face.

More like his ass and your face, George.  ;)

Response:

I have many Tom Thumbs. Got introduced to it in British Columbia. Hook: 8 to 16, fine wire Tail: Deer hair ends Body: Deer hair is tied in at the tail with butt ends. The thin ends of the deer hair are pulled forward to form a sheath body and tied off at the head. Deer hair is then spread up or around to form a hackle. Light grizzly hackle can be added as a variation, but I usually do not. If you use thicker tying thread for this fly it is more durable. You may tie it up from bend of the hook to get better hhoking qualities. Data: The major dry fly of British Columbia lakes from sedges to tiny chironomids. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

Some of the fellows in this group will try to goad Mr. G into a rant and then spend weeks talking about it. Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is.        Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

… Kind of like poking a dog with a stick and then complaining about how nasty he is.

More like poking a pile of dog shit and then complaining about the smell. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Albolene, Albolene, Best floating fly That I’ve ever seen Put away the gink and try My Albolene, sweet Albolene, My Albolene. test test test   test test test   test test test      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

What in th’ world?  Is this testing actually necessary?     Meroli

Response:

Check out the following sites. The Tom Thumb is my favorite dry fly.

Looks interesting, yet I’ve never heard of it.  Probably floats well – the first "deer hair hackle" fly I’ve seen (not counting Muddler Minnows, etc. of course).  Presents a bit of a mayfly look, bit of a beetle look.  Strange, but maybe it works. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Huh…Been using this for years on Bluegills….didn’t know it had a name. Color does not seem important, gray to brown, all are effective. It seems that the more the fish chew it up the better it works. jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out the following sites. The Tom Thumb is my favorite dry fly. http://www.virtualkamloops.net/bcfff/thumb.htm http://www.sportfishingbc.com/tom_thumb.htm Has no one heard of the Tom thumb no fly box should be without a few . hard to tie but deadly!! Tom Thumb fly?  Where can I find instructions?     Meroli — http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  Some have asked some more questions about how I tie my Adams and if I can tell them more about it.  Well, I forgot to mention that the tails are salt and peppered and I use either dark Cree or Red along with a few fibers of Griz.  It is important that one uses the stiff, shiny barbs that best can be found out he largest Saddle Hackles possible. I tie all my Adams between size #20 to size 12 and only sometimes do I go to size 10’s as an attracter pattern because by that time I’m reaching for a Gray Wulff. I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with.  But I do wish I had longer fibers than what these prime #1’s and #2’s I have for the whole collection are stiff and even and prime.  I use nothing but four hackle tips for the Adams does not imitate a dipteria two winged insect of any kind.  Then again, we know trout can’t count either.  They may not possess logic as we know it but they are conditioned to patterns and four wing tips is a definite difference than a two winged looking offering.  They don’t reason it, they just know it. I use fine, black thread and the finest wire hooks I can find.  Barbless hooks are preferred because of the number of trout that can be caught on any given day.  Stripped to one dry fly to use, it would always be the Adams for me and for the nymph the Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear. I also tie a Yellow Adams using a light yellow thread and dark red rooster tails.  The wings are still 4 Griz Hackle tips, divided and upright sticking a little beyond the diameter of the hackles upon completion.  The entire body is yellow and thinly dressed. This fly can be taken for a mayfly cahill dun just leaving the water and headed for the bushes to moat one more time to become an egg laying spinner.  To imagine that mayflies spend a whole year to prepare for the last three days of life to mate makes me realize how important it is to be prepared for those last three days of life and Matching the Hatch. There is a trick I learned on the Henry’s Fork one day about 20 years ago.  Everyone was having moderate success but not like it should be. Everyone in the area was using teeny dry flies or emergers.  I tied on a big Gray Wulff and suddenly I was not matching the hatch at all but I certainly was always into a fish for the next three hours.  Sometimes a large #10 Adams will do just that.  Rebel and try the ridiculous sometimes and for some reason the light comes on for the trout.  It may not be the right size but it has to be the right colors.  Adams seem to do that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Has no one heard of the Tom thumb no fly box should be without a few . hard to tie but deadly!!

Tom Thumb fly?  Where can I find instructions?     Meroli

Response:

… I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with. But I do wish I had longer fibers than what these prime #1’s and #2’s I have for the whole collection are stiff and even and prime…

For hackling flies, those Hoffman saddles are hard to beat, but for hackle fiber tails, bass bug hackle, streamer wings, and so forth, it’s nice to have a few Metz saddles (not microbarb) at the bench. I recently got a great deal on some bulk saddles at a local fly shop (3 for $5!!), that are being turned into pike streamers. I love my Hoffmans, but they just aren’t up to the job. Also, for anyone who like barbless hooks, consider getting a small pair of needlenose pliers. There’s a much wider variety of both flies and hooks in the barbed variety, all of which are easily debarbed with the pliers. BTW, some of the nicest brookies I’ve caught have been on yellow-bodied flies. I didn’t notice any yellow naturals around, but the fish never seemed to care, so neither did I (g). — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

… I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with.

i know i should keep my mouth shut, but how in the hell do they teach them cocks to "hancock" them necks? furthermore, how the hell can ya determine one’s scratch from another? waldo, returning to the light side…. Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with. i know i should keep my mouth shut, but how in the hell do they teach them cocks to "hancock" them necks? furthermore, how the hell can ya determine one’s scratch from another? waldo, returning to the light side…. Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

— Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Check out the following sites. The Tom Thumb is my favorite dry fly. http://www.virtualkamloops.net/bcfff/thumb.htm http://www.sportfishingbc.com/tom_thumb.htm Has no one heard of the Tom thumb no fly box should be without a few . hard to tie but deadly!! Tom Thumb fly?  Where can I find instructions?     Meroli

– http://home.earthlink.net/~vicbrockett

Response:

Has no one heard of the Tom thumb no fly box should be without a few . hard to tie but deadly!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  Some have asked some more questions about how I tie my Adams and if I can tell them more about it.  Well, I forgot to mention that the tails are salt and peppered and I use either dark Cree or Red along with a few fibers of Griz.  It is important that one uses the stiff, shiny barbs that best can be found out he largest Saddle Hackles possible. I tie all my Adams between size #20 to size 12 and only sometimes do I go to size 10’s as an attracter pattern because by that time I’m reaching for a Gray Wulff. I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with.  But I do wish I had longer fibers than what these prime #1’s and #2’s I have for the whole collection are stiff and even and prime.  I use nothing but four hackle tips for the Adams does not imitate a dipteria two winged insect of any kind.  Then again, we know trout can’t count either.  They may not possess logic as we know it but they are conditioned to patterns and four wing tips is a definite difference than a two winged looking offering.  They don’t reason it, they just know it. I use fine, black thread and the finest wire hooks I can find.  Barbless hooks are preferred because of the number of trout that can be caught on any given day.  Stripped to one dry fly to use, it would always be the Adams for me and for the nymph the Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear. I also tie a Yellow Adams using a light yellow thread and dark red rooster tails.  The wings are still 4 Griz Hackle tips, divided and upright sticking a little beyond the diameter of the hackles upon completion.  The entire body is yellow and thinly dressed. This fly can be taken for a mayfly cahill dun just leaving the water and headed for the bushes to moat one more time to become an egg laying spinner.  To imagine that mayflies spend a whole year to prepare for the last three days of life to mate makes me realize how important it is to be prepared for those last three days of life and Matching the Hatch. There is a trick I learned on the Henry’s Fork one day about 20 years ago.  Everyone was having moderate success but not like it should be. Everyone in the area was using teeny dry flies or emergers.  I tied on a big Gray Wulff and suddenly I was not matching the hatch at all but I certainly was always into a fish for the next three hours.  Sometimes a large #10 Adams will do just that.  Rebel and try the ridiculous sometimes and for some reason the light comes on for the trout.  It may not be the right size but it has to be the right colors.  Adams seem to do that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Albolene, Albolene, Best floating fly That I’ve ever seen Put away the gink and try My Albolene, sweet Albolene, My Albolene. test test test   test test test   test test test      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

_____  Some have asked some more questions about how I tie my Adams and if I can tell them more about it.  Well, I forgot to mention that the tails are salt and peppered and I use either dark Cree or Red along with a few fibers of Griz.  It is important that one uses the stiff, shiny barbs that best can be found out he largest Saddle Hackles possible.   I tie all my Adams between size #20 to size 12 and only sometimes do I go to size 10’s as an attracter pattern because by that time I’m reaching for a Gray Wulff. I’m very fortunate to have personal autographed Hoffman Rooster Necks and Saddles to tie with.  But I do wish I had longer fibers than what these prime #1’s and #2’s I have for the whole collection are stiff and even and prime.  I use nothing but four hackle tips for the Adams does not imitate a dipteria two winged insect of any kind.  Then again, we know trout can’t count either.  They may not possess logic as we know it but they are conditioned to patterns and four wing tips is a definite difference than a two winged looking offering.  They don’t reason it, they just know it.   I use fine, black thread and the finest wire hooks I can find.  Barbless hooks are preferred because of the number of trout that can be caught on any given day.  Stripped to one dry fly to use, it would always be the Adams for me and for the nymph the Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear.   I also tie a Yellow Adams using a light yellow thread and dark red rooster tails.  The wings are still 4 Griz Hackle tips, divided and upright sticking a little beyond the diameter of the hackles upon completion.  The entire body is yellow and thinly dressed. This fly can be taken for a mayfly cahill dun just leaving the water and headed for the bushes to moat one more time to become an egg laying spinner.  To imagine that mayflies spend a whole year to prepare for the last three days of life to mate makes me realize how important it is to be prepared for those last three days of life and Matching the Hatch. There is a trick I learned on the Henry’s Fork one day about 20 years ago.  Everyone was having moderate success but not like it should be. Everyone in the area was using teeny dry flies or emergers.  I tied on a big Gray Wulff and suddenly I was not matching the hatch at all but I certainly was always into a fish for the next three hours.  Sometimes a large #10 Adams will do just that.  Rebel and try the ridiculous sometimes and for some reason the light comes on for the trout.  It may not be the right size but it has to be the right colors.  Adams seem to do that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

Question:

I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.

I had my left knee done last October, the right one done in December and was on the water again in April. Had the lakes been open, I might have been fishing even sooner – the Doc told me a kickboat would be excellent  therapy. In any case,  good luck with the surgery. Regards, Dennis Smith Loveland, CO Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

 Mike, Here’s wishing you a successful visit to the hospital, and get over it quickly. Good luck. Regards from Wales. — Bill

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

– Mike, Good luck with your surgery and we’ll be sure to save some fish fer ya… –Walt

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing. All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Mike: Sorry to hear about the knee problems. What kind of reconstruction are you having?  I had patellar graft reconstruction on my left knee 6 years ago and have been *extremely* happy with the result. You might even find that you could still get some fishing in this season.  By three months post-op, I was doing a lot of the things I wanted to, just being careful. Best of luck to you.  It is amazing what they can do to repair things these days. Bob

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing.   All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Response:

Question:

As I am new to flyfishing,(nearly 1 year), I have become an avid fly tier market today? If all of the Pinot Noir wines were set in front of me I’m sure I couldn’t tell one from the other after I got to a certain priceSt.Croix $50.00 blank and a Sage $250.00 blank. Is Thomas and Thomas really different from a Powell, or a Sage, or a Scott, or an Orvis? I would like to hear your response, and hope perhaps that the ability to define the differences is something I can look forward to as I get more proficient in my casting. Thanks. DLowe21757

I’m sorry to hear you cannot tell the difference between Pinot Noirs.   You picked a good one to work with tho’, maybe someday you will be able to appreciate the many differences.  The same is true of flyrods.  A Winston or T & T do not cast anything like a Sage or Loomis or Orvis.   Actually Loomis makes rods for a great majority of rod companies, built to their (other Co.) specifications.  At you stage of development a Sage or Orvis would probably be a good choice.  You will soon wish you hadn’t wasted your time, if you build a rod from a cheap noodlely brank.  Go to a shop where you can cast these rods.  Their actions are quite different, and the deciding factor would be your casting style. -Burton

Response:

As I am new to flyfishing,(nearly 1 year), I have become an avid fly opposite problem.  The moral of the story is, you have to try the rod (or have an experienced caster try it for you) before you buy a rod, line, reel combination..  The line ratings on cheap rods can be very misleading.

Not only can the ratings be misleading, but some of them specify a range of ratings like 4,5 wt. or 4,5,6-wt.  So where do you start if you don’t happen to have a collection of lines laying around both in DT and WF (these can load the rod differently), especially if you are a beginner.   I would never buy a rod that was given a multiple rating, since it gave me the impression the builder wasn’t quite sure which wt. it was intended for. -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Charles

Response:

Dear Mr. Lowe Mr.Burton told you correctly, except of course that the St Croix is an excellent blank for the money.  Believe it or not, Lee Wulff Fished St Croix fly rods I never fished a St  Croix I didn’t like. Mr. Gink

Yo George, Sorry I omitted one of your favorite rods.  I am not familar with St. Croix myself, the ones I have tried were too soft for my taste.  However, I will hasten to add that St. Croix blanks are quite popular here in Oregon for building inexpensive tough salmon rods. -Burton

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Dear Mr. Lowe Mr.Burton told you correctly, except of course that the St Croix is an excellent blank for the money.  Believe it or not, Lee Wulff Fished St Croix fly rods many, many times and regarded them as top of the line equipment.  I’m sure, if they were good enough for Lee Wulff they will be good enough first choice for you.  Build it, try it, fish it and then let me know how you ‘REALLY’ like it.

I never fished a St  Croix I didn’t like. Mr. Gink

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Question:

I have a South Bend bamboo 9′ rod( 2-tips) with only the markings of 57-9′ on it. Can anyone tell me what the 57 means and what weight the rod is. Thanks,

Response:

I have a South Bend bamboo 9′ rod( 2-tips) with only the markings of 57-9′ on it. Can anyone tell me what the 57 means and what weight the rod is. Thanks,

From my limited knowledge, I belive the 57 refers to the rod’s taper and quality ranking within the South Bend family of rods. The 57 was a low to medium priced rod with South Bend’s Bass Action  (fast action). If there are no marking or decals on the rod itself (possibly removed in a prior refinish), its difficult to determine much more. — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides page http://www.olfart.com

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The "57" indicates that is, in-fact, a model 57 and the 9, well, you guessed it, it’s a 9 footer!  The 57 was a "bass action" rod and was at the low end of the South Bend line. With a little more info such as reelseat type, grip type, ferrule type and wrap color the date of the rod could be narrowed down a bit. Dave

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I have a South Bend bamboo 9′ rod( 2-tips) with only the markings of 57-9′ on it. Can anyone tell me what the 57 means and what weight the rod is. Thanks,

The "57" refers to the model number (Model 57).  I would guess that it would take a 7 or 8 weight line. –Rich

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In regards to the South Bend 57-9. It was their lowest quality level rod. It should cast a 7 or 8 weight line well and is worth about $50.00.

Response:

In regards to the South Bend 57-9. It was their lowest quality level rod. It should cast a 7 or 8 weight line well and is worth about $50.00.

I have a 59 -9′ Southbend Bamboo Rod (was my Dad’s) /w Pfluger reel, I would like to restore it.  I have both tips.  some  snake guides are missing.   any info?????

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writes: In regards to the South Bend 57-9. It was their lowest quality level rod. It should cast a 7 or 8 weight line well and is worth about $50.00. I have a 59 -9′ Southbend Bamboo Rod (was my Dad’s) /w Pfluger reel, I would like to restore it.  I have both tips.  some  snake guides are missing.   any info?????

Buy a copy of Michael Sinclair’s "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" for $25.00 (US) – ISBN #1-882418-11-5 As for Snake guides, Try to find Perfection snakes, they’ll match the originals, but I’ve been told that Perfection has converted over to a new mfg. process and has had delivery problems. Order an Angler’s Workshop catalog for a good selection of silk thread, both Godebrod and YLI (sold as Angler’s brand). A.W. # — (360) 225-9445 Don B. PS – I’m looking for smaller size Perfection guides (smaller than #2’s) if anyone has them for sale – please e-mail me.

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     I just inherited a South Bend bamboo rod, rod #323, 9′ length. The rod has a cloth bag, and is a three-piece with an extra tip section.  Can anybody give me an idea how old the rod is, what the rod might be worth, and  what line weight might be best?     A couple of the ferrules are loose, but other than that everything seems fine.  Can I just epoxy the ferrules, or should I give the rod a more thorough refinishing? Ed Heist College Station, TX (140 miles northeast of one of several Guadalupe Rivers)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I just inherited a South Bend bamboo rod, rod #323, 9′ length. The rod has a cloth bag, and is a three-piece with an extra tip section.  Can anybody give me an idea how old the rod is, what the rod might be worth, and  what line weight might be best?    A couple of the ferrules are loose, but other than that everything seems fine.  Can I just epoxy the ferrules, or should I give the rod a more thorough refinishing? Ed Heist College Station, TX (140 miles northeast of one of several Guadalupe Rivers)

Ed, Try this url:    http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm     Also, buy a copy of Michael Sinclair’s "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" a great book for do-it-yourself production bamboo rod restorations. If you try to remove the ferrules, look for small pins holding them on! Don

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Question:

  I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish.  Thanks    Phil. Political responses unneeded. —

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  I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish.  Thanks    Phil. Political responses unneeded. —

I don’t know about water to fish but water to drink should be rain water ! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish.  Thanks    Phil. Political responses unneeded. — I don’t know about water to fish but water to drink should be rain water ! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

Panangling Travel servise has a Cuban destination for fly fishing for bones, tarpon, permit, snook, etc. They have a web page. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

Will be at Denali Park entrance area in mid August, any dry fly creeks wadeable within walking or hitching distance that are not loaded with Glacier flour?

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Will be at Denali Park entrance area in mid August, any dry fly creeks wadeable within walking or hitching distance that are not loaded with Glacier flour?

The clearwater side streams have small grayling but you might find them, (the streams,) hard to reach.  I’d take some wet patterns with me too.  One high percentage shot is floating mouse or shrew patterns on the local lakes for pike.  Almost any lake you see in that country holds northern pike.  I’d recommend wire leaders. R. Wood in Alaska

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services    Misha,    Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From    personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are    difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost    certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). How ’bout pre-tying on the tippet, with a loop at the end, for a loop-to-loop -type of connection? — Matt Meola NRA Life, Libertarian, Militiaman Gun control means using two hands. Live free or die!

Matt, A loop-to-loop connection between the tippet and the next section of the leader might not allow the fly to turn over as easily (compared with, say a surgeons or barrel knot).  Also, it would seem to be a little too bulky for my taste, which could possibly put down some fish. Also, I have my doubts concerning the practicality of carrying around a hundred or so flys with tippets already attached (I’m implying that this was what you were getting at previously.  I apologize in advance if I misinterpreted your posting.). Best Regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

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It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing..

Clips or swivels are too heavy and are not made in sizes small enough for the flies needed sometimes by trout. The simplest solution is to learn the turle knot, which is easy (can almost be tied blindfold or at night) and does not mash hackles. —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services    Misha,    Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From    personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are    difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost    certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). How ’bout pre-tying on the tippet, with a loop at the end, for a loop-to-loop -type of connection? — Matt Meola NRA Life, Libertarian, Militiaman Gun control means using two hands. Live free or die!

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It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing.. Misha

Response:

It gets rather tiring when I have to switch Flies and have to continue retying different Flies onto my line.. I use #14 and was wondering are their any types of Clip Swiviles out there for quick Fly changing.. Misha

Misha, Personally, I would bag the idea of using clip swivels at all.  From personal experience, they tend to sink dry flys and they also are difficult to get your fly onto (which if you’re using a dry will almost certainly cause you to crush the hackles, tail, etc.). Best Regards, Jim Davis Philadelphia, PA Temple University

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | I just saw Sinead Oconner on Letterman and I liked her better without | hair, at least that way you could use your imagination and THINK she MIGHT | be cute.  Now that I’ve seen her with hair I know for sure she’s ugly. | | Man, that’s so fucking rude.  Who gives a FUCK what you fucking think | of what the performer LOOKS like?  Was the performance good?  A | resounding "yes" is the answer.  So fuck off and go back to the | chauvanistic bozo-zone you came from.  (You must be male, because | only a broken chromosomed piece of shit would even bother to | think–and I use that term loosely–this way.) | | Heidi wow      /;    ;                                             /{__/   `’____               ___   (o)  (o  }                                           __/          :–’                                                 _    `__      Moo                       ___(o’o)                                                   (  `====’                                                     !                                      /     |    /  

OOOOO LOOK  AN INSPIRAL CARPETS FAN!!!!

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chauvanistic bozo-zone you came from.  (You must be male, because only a broken chromosomed piece of shit would even bother to think–and I use that term loosely–this way.)

Oooo…a male basher….I really hate it when some two bit cunt assaults me for being male because of the stupidity of one other male…beleive me, there are a lot of stupid females in this world too. -(CJW)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just saw Sinead Oconner on Letterman and I liked her better without hair, at least that way you could use your imagination and THINK she MIGHT be cute.  Now that I’ve seen her with hair I know for sure she’s ugly. Man, that’s so fucking rude.  Who gives a FUCK what you fucking think of what the performer LOOKS like?  Was the performance good?  A resounding "yes" is the answer.  So fuck off and go back to the chauvanistic bozo-zone you came from.  (You must be male, because only a broken chromosomed piece of shit would even bother to think–and I use that term loosely–this way.) Heidi —      So what about KEANU REEVES?  Choosing one of today’s least able (but

Anyone who’s seen Hush a Bye Baby (film) in which Sinead wears a long wig, knows that she is visually attractive. Do people always swear as much on this newsgroup. Andrew in Belfast.

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I just saw Sinead Oconner on Letterman and I liked her better without hair, at least that way you could use your imagination and THINK she MIGHT be cute.  Now that I’ve seen her with hair I know for sure she’s ugly.

Man, that’s so fucking rude.  Who gives a FUCK what you fucking think of what the performer LOOKS like?  Was the performance good?  A resounding "yes" is the answer.  So fuck off and go back to the chauvanistic bozo-zone you came from.  (You must be male, because only a broken chromosomed piece of shit would even bother to think–and I use that term loosely–this way.) Heidi —      So what about KEANU REEVES?  Choosing one of today’s least able (but

Response:

I just saw Sinead Oconner on Letterman and I liked her better without hair, at least that way you could use your imagination and THINK she MIGHT be cute.  Now that I’ve seen her with hair I know for sure she’s ugly. Man, that’s so fucking rude.  Who gives a FUCK what you fucking think of what the performer LOOKS like?  Was the performance good?  A resounding "yes" is the answer.  So fuck off and go back to the chauvanistic bozo-zone you came from.  (You must be male, because only a broken chromosomed piece of shit would even bother to think–and I use that term loosely–this way.) Heidi

I thought she looked great.  she put on a good show.  I wish dave would have talked to her though. ryan http://www.xmission.com/~ryshaw snowboarding/NIN/flyfishing/The Jeffersons

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I just saw Sinead Oconner on Letterman and I liked her better without hair, at least that way you could use your imagination and THINK she MIGHT be cute.  Now that I’ve seen her with hair I know for sure she’s ugly.

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Question:

: I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and : came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also : come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly : cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). [...] : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing [...] I have had much success on model rockets to use the pre-assembled fishing leaders that you find at Walmart, Kmart, etc.  Usually has 12" small diameter wire, with connector on one end, and snap swivel on the other.  Either mount them under a centering ring if length permits, or epoxy them to the airframe wall.  I suggest making the swivel about even with top of airframe to minimize zippering the body tube, but I’ve had good luck with letting them hang out.  Attach shock cord to swivel end of the leader. —          /       Lee Reep                    voice: 303/229-2010     /  /~~  /   Fort Collins, Colorado                TRA 2007

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Anyhow.. Here is number you call to get a Netcraft catalog.         1-800-638-2723 The address is:         Netcraft         2800 Tremainsville Road,         Toledo, OH 43613 Incidentally, besides the Spectra, they have a huge variety of other stuff that we’d all be interested in: snaps and swivels, steel leader wire, crimping sleeves, tools, carbon fiber fishing rod blanks, (small) Cyalume sticks (work great for low altitude rockets at night, but I’d use the larger 4 inchers for anything that goes above 200 feet), threads and line of all descriptions, storage boxes, etc. etc. Incidentally.. last night I was at the Wal Mart again and found another brand of Spectra line. The brand was "Lynch line". It came in test weights to 80 pounds and as little as 35 pounds. The 35# stuff, though, was the same diameter as the Spider Wire 50# test – .014". It was quite a bit cheaper than the Spider Wire. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!  ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.)

It was rope jr. ^_^;; Looks like I’m going to have to learn to splice wings.. my planes usually get thrown away (actually I have 15-20 moldering away in a closet ^_^;;) after getting damaged (usually because I come up with new hotter designs) but this one was the second newest one in my fleet! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!   ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.) —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).    People also use parachute cord to make "slinkies".  "Slinkies" are short  lengths of parachute cord stuffed with lead (preferably steel…) shot,  used as substitutes for sinkers/split shot in drift-fishing rivers/streams  with snaggy bottoms.  Slinkies are less prone to snagging.

So is Parachute Cord hollow, or do you have to pull the inner filler out? All the braided line I’ve seen has an inner core. What diameter are we talking about for sleeving? I imagine the stuff used for "slinkies" is of a larger diameter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor.

Now you can be stronger in your faith… Simo —

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<questions about Spectra) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

Heh… Speaking of cutting off wings.. Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to ..013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

Wow!  Control line.  It’s been about 35 years since I fooled around with C/L.  – fun stuff.   I use the polypro stuff for fishing.  I’d say it is fairly resistant to sunlight and fuels.  I would suggest tying to a small snap using a polamar or a trilene knot, then "seal" the knot with a tiny drop of super-glue. I suspect you could fly a Cessna 180 with the .013 stuff  I think I would try something around .008 or about 20# test for 1/2 A. The stuff is real slippery (good for loops) and that quality can be enhanced by spraying with ACE or any other generic brand of silicone lubricant. Have fun.

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1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight

I’ve never had any problems with my lines deteriorating. 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)

Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?

I’d really like to hear what the fishing folks say about this as it’s the major bugaboo.  In kiting we sleeve each line before making a bend in it as the stuff is very brittle when bent.  We use parachute chord and thread the Spectra through it.  Then we can loop the cord back and tie it without problems.   This is true of normal fishing line as well and a simple knot will reduce the line strength by an order of magnitude.  Thus, there are several knots that try to get around this and are somewhat successful.  They amount to wrapping the line back on itself and around itself.  This increases strength by the simple redundancy so that the knot itself, while it weakens the area by the tying, doesn’t completely give up the strength.  In stunt kiting, though, we want 150-200lb test lines with the diameter of 6lb monofilament. I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

This is really the downside of Spectra.  It’s SHARP.  Any stunt kiter who tells you they’ve never been cut by it either hasn’t used it very long or they’re lying — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeving.. A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine.

What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A?

Sullivan sells Kevlar control lines. They aren’t too popular, though. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose

Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^ The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle".

Its fishing line. "Stren" brand, to be exact. On the same display case for that matter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest

I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself? 874 Dillingham Blvd.       | Honolulu, HI 96817         | Ph#: (808) 845-9202        |

Response:

How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine. In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also.

I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A? Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

This is not a problem.  You can wrap them up quite a lot before you start feeling friction problems.  It’s probably better than braided metal in this respect. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other

Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle". — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot.

How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly.

Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other way. The difference is that the lines are on a handle and you use one hand to do the controlling. I’ve seen stunt kites flown like this, except the "handle" is a 3 foot long broomstick. In fact, someone sells a "combat trainer" kite, ostensibly for learning how to fly C/L planes. There are also engineless C/L planes called "wind fliers". You fly them on the downwind side of the circle when the wind blows, assisting it now and then by whipping. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound.

Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor. — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too.

I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  And yes, Kevlar should be sleeved also. Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^

– # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself?

The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Simo —

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I’m cross-posting this to rec.fishing, and rec.kites (where Spectra lines have been used for a long time) in the hopes that I can get my questions answered. I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to .013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing ^_^;; — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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<questions about Spectra) : 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight It is better than a lot of materials for UV resistance, but not UV-proof. : 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) Dunno, never tried, but I’d tend to assume so, for the same reason as you. : 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated :    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those :    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where :    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the :    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What :    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot. : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. — …I studied with diligence Neptune’s laws, and these laws I tried to obey… <Joshua Slocum

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How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

Take a two foot length of thin wire (fishing leader or even your metal C/L line and bend it back on itself. Thread this wire into the sleeving material and then loop the spectra between the two sides of the wire and pull it back. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

It is very slippery and does slide over itself. In this respect it would probably work great for C/L. Unfortunately, abrasion resistance is pretty low. Overall, Spectra is fragile stuff. Be careful about snagging it on objects or on the ground. If you do use it, check it periodically for nicks and abrasion points. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

For a given breaking strength, Kevlar and Spectra are about the same size in cross section. Stretching characteristics are also about the same. Kevlar is a lot tougher though, and you don’t have to worry so much about abrasion and contact with other lines. — Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications 617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130                         Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

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