Question:

early June is prime but many lakes offer good fishing into the 1st half of July. Mid to late June into the 1st week of July is prime time for travelling sedges. The merrit area about 1 hour south west of Kamloops is also good and there is a very nice looking golf course just east of the town with a large modern resort. Salmon Lake, Glimpse, Peterhope, Plateau, the Lakes of the Douglas Lake Ranch and also Roche Lake and it’s many nearby lakes are all close by. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prime time out of Kamloops for fly fishing is May/June as it is not very high elevation. July can be too late for the good fishing. For golf and fishing, I would pick a week in early June. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com What time of year? Can’t advise much on golf as I don’t. The Kamloops area is a good bet. My ex boss retired up there a few years back to engage his interest in both pursuits. It’s best known for it’s still water fishery with dozens of lakes within an hour or two’s drive. There is some fine stream fishing as well. Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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Great! Thanks much.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve golfed a lot in Kamloops and they have some real good courses. Dunes, Rivershore and one up on the plateau on the south side of #1 going east.  Forget the name but it’s a nice one as well.  Good fishing just south of Kamloops in the Logan lake area.  About 1 hour gets you to lots of fishing lakes. Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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Prime time out of Kamloops for fly fishing is May/June as it is not very high elevation. July can be too late for the good fishing. For golf and fishing, I would pick a week in early June. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What time of year? Can’t advise much on golf as I don’t. The Kamloops area is a good bet. My ex boss retired up there a few years back to engage his interest in both pursuits. It’s best known for it’s still water fishery with dozens of lakes within an hour or two’s drive. There is some fine stream fishing as well. Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

Response:

Thanks for the additional information. k

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prime time out of Kamloops for fly fishing is May/June as it is not very high elevation. July can be too late for the good fishing. For golf and fishing, I would pick a week in early June. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com What time of year? Can’t advise much on golf as I don’t. The Kamloops area is a good bet. My ex boss retired up there a few years back to engage his interest in both pursuits. It’s best known for it’s still water fishery with dozens of lakes within an hour or two’s drive. There is some fine stream fishing as well. Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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I’ve golfed a lot in Kamloops and they have some real good courses. Dunes, Rivershore and one up on the plateau on the south side of #1 going east.  Forget the name but it’s a nice one as well.  Good fishing just south of Kamloops in the Logan lake area.  About 1 hour gets you to lots of fishing lakes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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What time of year? Can’t advise much on golf as I don’t. The Kamloops area is a good bet. My ex boss retired up there a few years back to engage his interest in both pursuits. It’s best known for it’s still water fishery with dozens of lakes within an hour or two’s drive. There is some fine stream fishing as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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We’re thinking June or July.  Will check out Kamloops. Thanks. karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What time of year? Can’t advise much on golf as I don’t. The Kamloops area is a good bet. My ex boss retired up there a few years back to engage his interest in both pursuits. It’s best known for it’s still water fishery with dozens of lakes within an hour or two’s drive. There is some fine stream fishing as well. Wanting to put together a fishing/golfing trip to BC. Any suggestions on an area we might find good prospects for both activities?

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Question:

Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board.   Scott

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I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months

Congratulations on coming out of the shadows!  You have taken a big step and are now eligible to be Fortenberry fodder! Keep at the learning (it actually never stops).  At least you are into the fun part now.   Good luck and keep us posted. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

Welcome to the group.  It’s always nice to see a new nickname.  BTW, there’s no need to wait until you have experience to start adding to the board.  Most ROFFians aren’t the type to refrain from giving advice just because they don’t know what they’re talking about. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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Welcome Scott from another ROFF newcomer.  I still consider myself a flyfishing beginner and as such I find a lot of the info here invaluable.  I’ve never taken a guided flyfishing trip but I would like to try one soon (maybe Spring 2001). I’m sure you’ve already seen this here a hundred times but….be sure to cast any rod before you buy.  Some shops will let you take them out on the stream and fish them for a few days without having to commit. One thing that has been a great source for me is an annual Flyfishing and Outdoors show held in my state (usually in January).  Every manufacturer you can dream of attends with their full line of gear in tow.  They will gladly rig up any rod/reel combo you like for a test drive on the indoor casting pool.  If they have anything like that near you I highly recommend attending even if it means a days drive and a stay over at a local hotel…it’s that good. Next spring I’ll be in need of new waders too…the Orvis Breathables are appealing.  Keep us posted on the gear front. Regards and tight lines! Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you! I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

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Jeezus H. Christ man, are you crazy!  Run far, run fast, before Wolfie and Forty get back. Best of luck and welcome to cyber hell! Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience. With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start. I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

Response:

Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  

Lucky bastard. With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  

Don’t know the St. Croix rods. I’ve got a DS2 5wt, and love it. There is a membership fee, though…was Wolfgang managing that? Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

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Question:

Reader Pete Tampone shows off a beauty taken on a fly rod in California and shares some info on himself. Check him out at our photo site. Nice catch Pete. I love to fly fish, mostly for pan fish here because of the weed cover but I did take a 9 1/2 pounder in one of the canals a few years back. Boy you are right, they can sure burn up a fly reel. — Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service (Lake Okeechobee) – http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html To view or post newsgroup ROBF Photos http://members.aol.com/recbass/robf_index.html

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Thanks for the post, Moe. Peter T

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reader Pete Tampone shows off a beauty taken on a fly rod in California and shares some info on himself. Check him out at our photo site. Nice catch Pete. I love to fly fish, mostly for pan fish here because of the weed cover but I did take a 9 1/2 pounder in one of the canals a few years back. Boy you are right, they can sure burn up a fly reel. — Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service (Lake Okeechobee) – http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html To view or post newsgroup ROBF Photos http://members.aol.com/recbass/robf_index.html

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Question:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?

That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

The Western Rockies would be great – next year might be best, that’ll give folks a chance to do some planning.     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

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<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

        now, now, boys, don’t y’all fret yourselves about a little ol clave organization job.  fortunately for you big sky folks, little wayno’s outfitters (we never close) has just expanded its service area to include the entire western united states.         for a nominal sum (contact the undersigned *only* for details), lwo’s, as we are called in the buckhead section of atlanta, will provide you with the time of your life.  of course, certain, um, "services" are actually provided by big joe’s flesh emporium of nasty, colo., but we can assure you of an event that will be burnt into your memories for eternity.         we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance. for the firm wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — something bogus to avoid spam)

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        we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance.

hell, you’ll have spent all the money in less than 10 days….. waldo the reelist —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

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____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

They had jetboats in the late 1700’s? C’mon G, now I don’t even believe that. Big Al

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They had jetboats in the late 1700’s?

Yes, they did.  All tricked out and ready to go.  Fortunately, gasoline had yet to be invented so everyone sat around lookin’ at ‘em and saying, "Damn! I wish someone ‘ud invent gasoline so we could go tearin’ around like maniacs and ravage us an ecosystem!".  Whale oil was available but didn’t have a high enough octane rating.  Eventually the jetboats were abandoned in favor of dugout canoes.  Thought you’d want to know. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Question:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

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Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

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If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

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My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

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I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

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  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave I sure agree, V.Marinaro explains things very well. I especially remember him explaining about "one" hackle fiber on a pattern making the difference on catching or not catching fish. As I remember the hackle fiber was misplaced and extended over the eye of the hook or some-such. Good tying &… — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving

I think you’ve got it about right there, Steve. Andrew

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Too damn well! -AR

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How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE.

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92 degree window of vision….the deeper they are, the bigger this window gets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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Re: How well can trout REALLY see? How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE. <<<<<<<< How do you define "8X that of a humans?".  What experiments did you actually perform?  Have you published in a peer review journal? William Buchman

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TimW — Ha! Ha! Just stay downstream…no need to worry. Seriously, I’d like to apologise to those who read my previous post about 8x vision…while I truly believe that *wild* browns (at least in my home waters) have this effective vision, the techniques I used to "prove" this to myself are not based on the kind of scientific procedure that I’d be willing to defend in public. I have done many of my own tests over the last 15 years to satisfy myself that the 8x figure is the accurate *effective* vision of a wild brown in certain (if not, most) feeding conditions…the theory has served me well, because using this principle my catch rate dramatically improved when I was actively fishing browns from 1982-1990, especially in spring creek and clear water habitates. It’s a long and complicated story that many flyfishers more knowledgeable than me (especially Dr. Bachman, TimW, Mr. Zink, Al Beatty, and a whole bunch more) could shoot a lot of holes thru. (Even I can shoot holes thru it.) When all is said and done, I don’t know for certain what and how well brown trout see. I just use the 8x as a rule of thumb to gage the quality of all brown trout flies I tie. Simply stated, I believe that if all tyers considered the 8x as a standard measurement to gage the quality of their flies they would catch a lot more trout …but only Seth Green knows this for sure. And, all of us have stories about the biggest trout we ever caught hitting a ragged and torn fly that looked terrible. From now on, I’ll be a little more cautious about spewing me theories. Thanks for your understanding. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

No Tim,  Those white letters are called Christmas cards.  All you need do is unstick them from your waders. If you have any further problems I am sure that there is a club nearby who hold beginners evenings and would be willing to help. Cheers Bruce….<g

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Really well, but not nearly as acutely as human’s.  There is evidence that trout see farther into the ultraviolet and infrared at least while fingerlings and again during spawning.  If Ralph Cutter happens to read this, he could probably give you the specifics of the color spectrum studies.  No one can really tell you exactly what they see though, because no one has ever come back from being a fish – at least not with any memory of it.   However, based on the biological make-up of their eyes  we have some good guesses.   On the human eye, the fovea (sp?)  is a small indentation "" on the back of the retina that is covered with cone cells (color receptors).  They are in a very high concentration in this spot with very few rod cells (black and white or low-light receptors) in evidence.  The lens of the human eye focuses light on this fovea and that’s what gives us the visual acuity (sharp & clear vision) we enjoy – at least for a while.  In low light the rod cells expand allowing us to see in black & white.  Because there are few rod cells in the fovea,  you will often see an object more clearly in low light if you look slightly off to the side of it.  This puts more light on the surrounding rod cells and allows you to see the target better even if it is with your peripheral vision. Trout’s eyes have both rod cells and cone cells on the retina of their eye.  During normal light conditions the cone cells are expanded – during low light, the cone cells recede and the rod cells expand allowing them to see by starlight.  The retina does not however have a fovea, nor does the lens of the eye focus the light on any one small spot on the retina.  Best guess is that although trout can see color all around and can judge distances well within a 30 degree cone in front of them (binocular vision) everything is still blurry even from 2" away.  Acuity is somewhat lacking. This is perhaps one of the reasons why they take a fly that has an otherwise obvious hook hanging from it.  Also helps explain why impressionist or imitative flies usually work much better than "realistic flies" which may match the natural perfectly.                                  Hope this helps,                                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

And don’t forget they can see behind underwater objects like rocks and tree branches by using the reflective mirror of the surface film outside the ‘window’, where they see through the surface. Avoid heavy footfalls on the river bank or when wading as their lateral line vibration sense is acute. I think that may be how seatrout (anadromous browns) can detect my size 14 black pennel on a pitch black night…. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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Well put – no one really knows (and hence the vendors can sell us anything…). However, I DO know that a golf ball has eyes and a brain.  Having tried to play golf I do know that balls that I find in the woods while looking for my ball soon will return there.  It would seem that these "wild" balls differ in their genetic makeup from the store-bought put-n-putt cousins… but I digress….. — Tim Wohlford, DO NOT SEND JUNK E-MAIL: "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine.  By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.  By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Though clothing is definetely a big consideration, I wouldn’t worry too much. You see, apparently even today’s most advanced trout can’t see well enough to detect the bend, point and barb of a hook. It’s amazing how these cunning, fabled creatures we pursue -which can supposedly detect the most microscopic details in color and size of the insects they are feeding on- somehow, time and time again, fail to notice the large, metallic-brown, bent, nasty-looking organ that is protruding from the crotch of every artificial fly that has ever been created. Fly fishing or lock-picking… Spinolio

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: I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense : vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how : well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there : are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and : not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding : terrain? : : Thanks in advance. Yes, no and maybe All the following occurred in bright sunny conditions about mid-day: Anecodote 1: at least 40 feet downstream of a fish tailing in 12" water … waved a fly away from my face, bow wave … one annoyed fish. Anecdote 2: next to, standing, a fish picking tasty morsels off a submerged log for 5 minutes.  Approached from downstream *verrrry* slowly with the sun behind and casting shadows away from the fish, probably could have tailed it if I’d been that way inclined, moved my rod arm something caught his eye … gone. Anecdote 3: fish hard against a bank in a riffly run, I’m within a rod length, a birds shadow made it change position then return after a minute or so.  Watching it feed, yup taking nymphs, scratched my nose … Gone. All three have a common thread, sudden or unexpected movement.   I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving Steve Still in Melbourne, Australia.

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Thanks in advance.

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 Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another?

G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

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     Trout have excellent vision, especially character recognition.  I’ve found that they usually read the fishing regulations before the season opens, and on opening day take an extended vacation to parts unknown. el coyotero was here

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

They can see better in smooth water vs. rippled water so you are more likely to spook trout in pools. Their eyes are placed on the sides of their heads so they have a wider angle of vision than we do. They can pick out a size #28 nymph without any problems. My best guess is that they see movement much better than we do. Their natural enemies (birds etc.) strike from above and food is also often found on the surface so they’re tuned into motion from above. Also they hear very well with a band of "ears" along their sides and can easily hear you stomping around on the banks long before they can see you in some cases. Good thing their brain is only the size of a pea. <G Don Burns

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Question:

i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

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i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

Actually, I think it is only the ones that have tried it. It is very exciting. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

: While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I : have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey : those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The : questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod : for small to medium western rivers: : : 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which : manufacturers offer these designs? : : 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. : : 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis : GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad : experiences with these rods? : : 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? : : Thanks. : :       IMHO the Loomis GL3, 9 ft., 5 wt., 4 pc. travel rod is the : best value in those you mention. It is without peer as a casting : machine – the reason you use a fly rod in the first and only place. It : is extremely well built, has a life time warranty for defects – and in : my experience – a very liberal interperation of what defect is. The : Sage is a close second in choice – the other two are not worth : considering along side the Loomis and Sage. :       I am a custom rod builder and all of my rods are G. Loomis : IMX, and mostly 4 pc. now. For the high price end you will not go : wrong with a Loomis GL3 or the GL4 coming out to replace the IMX. : Also, if you are looking at high end, check out the Thomas & Thomas : Heritage series designed by Gary Borger. These are very nice casting : tools. I think this, and every other thread like it demonstrates one thing: everybody seems to have a favourite rod that they say is the "best" but there is no consensus overall. It is absolutely pointless to ask which rod is best because everybody will say that the rod they spent the most amount of money on is the best. Basically, I have come to the conclusion that all rods are exactly the same – Like designer jeans, it depends on what label you prefer. I have had a chance to fish with a "cheap" fenwick fiberglas import, a top of the line Sage rod and a T&T which I now own and I have to admit that I was able to cast effectively with all three. I have a friend who has been fishing most of his life (probably more than 20 years) and who swears by a Wal-mart special he bought for $35.00. He outfishes everyone he knows (except his wife ) and has caught everything from pike and atlantic salmon to rainbows in the tiniest streams with overhanging trees,shrubs and other detritus. I feel as if I have been sucked, like many others, into the myth that more expensive is better. All it does is put my income into the pockets of Orvis, Loomis, Sage and T&T executives. It is not the rod that makes the fisherman, it’s the enjoyment of being outdoors in a pristine river doing an activity that we love. Just my two pennies’ worth… Ken

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1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value.

St. Croix 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods?

Sage, I prefer the look.  Aside from that, Loomis is probably every bit as good if not better than the Sage.  Finally, if I could only have one rod, I’d buy the best of a lesser name vs the cheapest of a top name.   Thanks.

john

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

We are selling more multi-piece (3 or 4 piece) rods every year. Nine foot, three piece rods are very hot. Lots of old timers will be shocked at how well they perform. Twenty years ago we all had several 2 piece rods and then one 4 piece we used only for back-packing. Today, my staff and I are using only multi-piece rods. I would cast the rods that you are interested in and find one you like. You might consider the brands with unconditional life-time warranties. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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I’m a firm believer in travel rods, having owned Sage 3 pce 586 LL, a Sage 3 pce SP 490, a Fisher 6 pce 7-8 wt and a Diawa 5 pce 4-5 wt. Currently, the SP and the Diawa get all the use.  The Diawa and Fisher are spiggot types whereas the Sages use  the ferrule approach.  To be honest, I can’t tell a damned bit of difference when casting, however the ferrule design is reported to be longer lasting as the spiggot fit tends to wear.  That’s what they say, but I’ve seen some old spiggot rods that fit together just fine.  Frankly, ignore the joining method and buy the rod that suits you.  Winston and Hardy uses spiggots for their travel rods and they don’t produce junk for sure. Spend a bit extra if you can and take a look at the Sage LL series. Even though my SP has a greater useable fishing range, the LL has to be the sweetest to cast and fish.  The GL3s are good too.  Try the GL3 9′ 4 wt. as well.  None of what you have mentioned are bad, I.ve casted them all but I have to go back to the LLs.  Its personal preference on my part, but try one.  Try the 3 pce 586.  Sure an SP, GLX, PM10 or T&T Horizon may cast further, but when is the last time you ever casted a fly more than 50′ to catch a ‘bow.  Buy a used one if you have to. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

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Dear J., I do not personally own a travel rod, but I was recently in the market for a lightweight flyrod and the St. Croix came highly recommended to me.  I know of some flyfishing crazies around this area who own the St. Croix "Pack Rat" and just love them. Kevin J. Engel

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While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

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While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value.

IMHO Sage delivers the best value. I have got a 5 wt 3 pc 9 ft Sage-SP and this rod is perfectly alright for nearly all purposes. If you like smaller streams – take this rod. If you prefer bigger streams – take this rod. It covers all kind of streams because of its soft presentation combined with a lot of power and backbone. Additionally, Sage has a perfect warranty: Once I broke my rod they repaired it free of charge within four weeks and inbetween they lent me the same rod to fish with. Good service. Nothing to complain about. 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods?

See above. Hope this helped. Good fishing and tight lines. Jan — Jan Geert Meents Georgenstrasse 120                              Fax: +89/278174-57 80798 Muenchen                                Phone: +89/278174-56

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod for small to medium western rivers: 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which manufacturers offer these designs? 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad experiences with these rods? 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? Thanks.

        IMHO the Loomis GL3, 9 ft., 5 wt., 4 pc. travel rod is the best value in those you mention. It is without peer as a casting machine – the reason you use a fly rod in the first and only place. It is extremely well built, has a life time warranty for defects – and in my experience – a very liberal interperation of what defect is. The Sage is a close second in choice – the other two are not worth considering along side the Loomis and Sage.         I am a custom rod builder and all of my rods are G. Loomis IMX, and mostly 4 pc. now. For the high price end you will not go wrong with a Loomis GL3 or the GL4 coming out to replace the IMX. Also, if you are looking at high end, check out the Thomas & Thomas Heritage series designed by Gary Borger. These are very nice casting tools.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : While considering the many options for 4 pc (or 3 pc) travel rods, I : have generated more questions than answers and would like to survey : those in the group who would share first hand experiences.  The : questions are basically these when considering an all around trout rod : for small to medium western rivers: : : 1  Is there a great advantage to internal ferrrule designs and which : manufacturers offer these designs? : : 2  Which  brand delivers, in your opinion, the best value. : : 3  For budget reasons, I am looking seriously at 5 wts. in the Loomis : GL3, Diamondback, Sage DS Series, and St. Croix. Any good or bad : experiences with these rods? : : 4  What are the preferences among the higher end rods? : : Thanks. : :       Hi Bruce,                  I am a Loomis manso my first choice would deffinatleybe

the Loomis GL3.  As for the high end rods I would reccomend the Loomis GLX.  The GLX is a much faster rod than the GL3.  I do not know too much about the Sage rods because I have never owned one nor have I casted one.  I hope this helps.      Fish or die,                 Adam Birkes

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Question:

intersted in some info

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In general, I think we’re in for some pretty high water this spring. Nothing scientific to back this up, but the last time I was over was they already had the river up near summer flow. It was interesting to see the river run clear with so much water (no irrigation returns yet), but it was tough wading, especially when I was expecting nice, low winter flow.l

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Al- I think someone else has already gone through the bureaucratic stuff to submit for a fly tying newsgroup, and the application is being considered. I have seen several postings about it on this newsgroup, though I can’t remember the name of the person who is doing it. As I recall there will be an election period pretty soon when people register their votes by e-mailing the newsgroup folks.I would check it out before doing it yourself. Good Luck! (I love your tying wax!) Steve Rosenblum

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Al- I think someone else has already gone through the bureaucratic stuff to submit for a fly tying newsgroup, and the application is being considered. I have seen several postings about it on this newsgroup, though I can’t remember the name of the person who is doing it.

That would be me.  The official RFD period began Feb. 20 and we’ve got about a week to go.  Look for the Call-for-votes soon. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I’m going to be doing some work around mile 120 of the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon later this month.  I’ve heard that there is reasonably good fishing above Navajo Bridge where the water’s pretty clear, but there has to be some decent fish in the lower sections.  Has anyone fished this area of the Colorado with any luck? George Tate

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You’ve got my support, and I’m sure most of the subscribers to THIS group! Just let us now how we can help support your endeavor!! Sean Clark Colorado

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Hi Dennis I guess we just keep plugging away and hope it comes to pass. The futher I get into it the more it seems like dealing with the government. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Wow.  No repsonses to this yet?  I’m amazed!  Go for it, Al!  I for one would really like to see it.  As the ISP wars heat up, some are carrying more and more newsgroups, without allocating more disk space.  It’s good advertising, I’m sure, but it decreases the time before messages scroll off the disk, and become unavailable.  I think that the end result of a new newsgroup would help to alleviate that problem for a lot of people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi fellow fly tiers, I just checked the "news.groups" and got the following information on starting a newsgroup: usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1." The information I read said it could take as long as three months to get a new group up and running. It is also very important to "vote" in the proper newsgroup. I’ll let this group know where and when after I receive my email from the above address. Maybe we will bet lucky! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

– — Greg Metcalfe                         |  The secret is getting URL http://www.proaxis.com/~biosphere |        Usually.  

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Yo Al, I sincerely hope that it come to pass.  If there is anything that I can do to be of asistance, please contact me.  The fly fishing group seems to be getting worse every day.

How so?, being a "NEWBIE" I would hate to tick/piss-off/make angry any of the "ESTABLISHED" members of this forum. I don’t know how much longer I can take it. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1 (aka Dennis Potter)

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You’ve got my vote when you need it!

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Mine too.  I’ve sent a request to the AOL news group guru asking for one. Maybe this will help.

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Mine too.  I’ve sent a request to the AOL news group guru asking for one. Maybe this will help.

Not if we want a Usenet newsgroup in one of the standard seven hierarchies. The whole reason for following guidelines for new group creation is to prevent one site from creating "unofficial" groups.  You could probably get a chat room or something created on AOL but only AOL users would see it. I checked in news.groups and found out the deal regarding the RFD that I posted awhile back.  The Call-For-Votes must be posted withing 60 days of the end of the Request-For-Discussion period.  Since that is the case here I’m going to post a 2nd RFD.   Here is what will happen… I will post a RFD to news.groups with a crosspost to news.announce.newgroups, rec.outdoors.fishing, and it’s subgroups.  That will get the ball rolling once again.  I was told that for a 2nd RFD only a couple of weeks of discussion is necessary.   After the discussion period, *and* if there seems to be a consensus that a Call-For-Votes should be posted I’ll post the CFV to the same groups. The CFV will include an email address and instructions on how to vote. Once the voting period completes we will notified if the group passes or not (requires 100 more Yes votes than No votes).  If the group passes the group will be created a couple of weeks later. NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE Posting that you vote "yes" (or no) to this newsgroup or any other is a waste of time.  The vote will not be counted.  I’ve mentioned this three times now but people continue to offer their votes.  I will repost the RFD after I send this message.  At that point the discussion period will begin again.  Once again, it will serve no purpose to post I vote yes for the flyfishing group here.  The discussion period is not for voting.  It is for discussion whether a Call-For-Votes should be posted and why or why not the creation of the group would be a good idea.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

Can anyone suggest a repellent for wasps and bees. On Monday I was stung twice while training. I will be competing in IMC and apparently the wasps can be a problem when cycling through the fruit orchards. I don’t want to go through the discomfort again and wouldn’t want my worst enemy to go through it either. I did a swim /bike workout yesterday. After putting on my wetsuit I was stung in the right heel. there was no significant swelling which is a plus in my favor. then an hour later on the bike I was stung on the back of my neck. I don’t know what it was but it must have been a wasp or bee. If there is a repellent I will put it on my body and also my bike. I found that the wasps seemed to be attracted to the gatorade that had splashed on the bike frame and bottle. they were landing on both and ’sniffing’ around. Any suggestions would ‘bee’ appreciated!! TriFiend

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The only thing I’ve found that actually works for wasps is lavender (the plant). The fishing clubs usually plant it along the river banks near where I live to keep the little bastards away. I don’t know whether there is a commerical product that does the same. Usually a  bit rubbed into the skin works ok, with the disadvantage that you smell like Joan Collins’ knickers for a while. Most bug repellants only seem to be directed toward mosquitos and midges and you sweat them off anyway. I had quite a lot of success with some tablets I got from a camping/climbing shop that made your sweat unattractive to them. Only problem was after a while I started turning yellow  (ha ha). I now find mosquitos and wasps the ideal motivation for impromptu fartlek sessions, in fact I did a 10K PB after being chased by a Horse fly last month…. really helps with the 5K kick ! tim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone suggest a repellent for wasps and bees. On Monday I was stung twice while training. I will be competing in IMC and apparently the wasps can be a problem when cycling through the fruit orchards. I don’t want to go through the discomfort again and wouldn’t want my worst enemy to go through it either. I did a swim /bike workout yesterday. After putting on my wetsuit I was stung in the right heel. there was no significant swelling which is a plus in my favor. then an hour later on the bike I was stung on the back of my neck. I don’t know what it was but it must have been a wasp or bee. If there is a repellent I will put it on my body and also my bike. I found that the wasps seemed to be attracted to the gatorade that had splashed on the bike frame and bottle. they were landing on both and ’sniffing’ around. Any suggestions would ‘bee’ appreciated!! TriFiend

As far as I know, there is no repellent for wasps or bees.  Chances are better of getting stung by a wasp then a bee.  A bee dies after it stings something, so will only sting when bothered, just riding by on a bike will not make it sting you.  As far as wasps, they are natures best terrorists. The best prevention from them is to wear light colored clothing.  They seem to attack dark colored moving objects more that light colored. The reason you see them around the gatorade is because they love sugar. If you want to keep them away from your bike, just use water in the bottles.                                                 Brian

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