Question:

No barbecue but we did end up with hamburgers at the beach grill.  I met up with Jon Cook on Monday to fish some of the surf near Los Angeles International Airport.  We jawed about some of our Great Lakes fishing memories and about life in academia.  When we got to the beach we saw a couple of corbina in skinny water.  It was low tide and the water was coming in.  We spotted some nice looking depressions in the sand.  If there were fish in this area they would soon be occupying those holes once the water filled in.  Jon got a look at some corbina and asked about them. I said I’d consider it a lucky day if we hooked into one.  Well, the fish were not there.  As the tide came in the corbina became more scarce.  My friend Jimmy tagged along with us and he did manage to catch a corbina. So maybe it was a lucky day after all.  All of us had a couple of strikes but failed to capitalize on the few opportunities.  Did end up with three perch landed between the three of us though.  The sea is a harsh mistress as they say.  Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend. Mu

Response:

Mu, you may have missed it on ROFF, but we noted your appearance in the SW Flyfishing article.  A very good article, btw. Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend.

Jon’s pretty slick at the San Juan.  We’ll have to do it again and get Jon to pick the days (early 2003 please).  We’ll hope for more willing next year although it’s always fun. bruce h

Response:

Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend.

I missed Jon at the Juan last year. Willi

Response:

Glad I did meet Jon though.  He says he will definitely go to the, as yet unplanned, next San Juan Clave.  Meet a ROFFian, meet a friend. I missed Jon at the Juan last year.

Awww, comon mon! It was a no-John Juan? rivermon

Response:

Awww, comon mon! It was a no-John Juan? rivermon

So… it was a sans Juan? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Mu, you may have missed it on ROFF, but we noted your appearance in the SW Flyfishing article.  A very good article, btw.

Just re-read that article.  Bill wrote it about a year ago.  Reminded me of a whole bunch of little tactics that I have forgotten about.  Back when I was catching fewer fish I figured there were just very few fish around and that’s why I wasn’t catching them.  So I spent more time concentrating on casting technique and doing little things to maximize my success rate on the water.  Since then I’ve gotten a little lazy (mentally) and figure if I keep casting and covering lots of territory I will eventually hook up. Mu

Response:

  Since then I’ve gotten a little lazy (mentally) and figure if I keep casting and covering lots of territory I will eventually hook up.

My guess is that you now catch many more fish. That technique works. Willi

Response:

Question:

Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

Response:

shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck. — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

"Nick C"

asks: Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

I like Plano.  You can get them in sizes big enough to carry the contents of a one bedroom apartment. But, I do like two or three smaller boxes.  I fish for different species of fish, and bringing along a ton of bass stuff to fish for trout is just too much.  Now, I may keep the bass box in the car or RV, just in case, but hauling everything you own to go catch a few bluegills doesn’t work for me. I even like the little ones about as big as two packs of cigs to carry when I go for a short hike.  Big enough to carry some extra hooks, sinkers, lures, flies, etc, and go in a pocket. But I do like Plano, and for a couple of bucks, send in the deal and get your name on a real brass plate for the top.  Makes you look like Like Roland Martin.  And to really look like Roland, bang your shin real hard on the hitch receiver and jump around. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

"Steve Huber"

Sorry, that was Bill Dance, "dancin" around the end of his truck.

I’ll bet that Roland has done it at least once.  Maybe not on camera. Steve Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

Hi, Can anybody recommend a good quality, sturdy tackle box. It needs to be large as I have a big collection of lures and trolling paraphernalia. At the moment I end up dragging two or three smaller boxes around with me. Many thanks, Nick

This doesnt relate much to what youre talking about, but If you take advice from the guys on TV and have like 5 small boxes for each kind of fish, you will end up going fishing and sure enough there will be people catching 20lb cats all around you when you only have your bass equipment with you.  or you take a bunch of topwater stuff and the bass are biting on the bottom……man that pisses me off so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod with a huge spinning reel just in case the huge carp happen to be biting.

Response:

so buy a big box, be ready for anything…..I even carry in my little firebird 4 different fishing poles….a fly rod & reel, a spinning reel w/ rod, a baitcasting reel w/ rod, and a bug surfrod

One of those shopping carts works good to haul all the stuff. Be sure to remove the market’s name. Steve  ;-) Illigitimi non carborundum.

Response:

Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Response:

Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Response:

Let’s see tackle boxes … you got Kevin Van Dam on TV with a tractor-trailer load of tackle, you got Mark Sosin on TV with little Plano tackle boxes for all occasions …. sometimes a dozen boxes for some occasions, you got foot locker-sized, cig-pack-sized,  you got worm boxes, leader boxes, fresh … salt …. fly …. surf … spinning …. bait casting … I secretly suspect your question was designed to stir up this bunch of smelly ol’ anglers … and hook em good … Mission accomplished. Unless of course, you work for Plano, Flambeau or any of the other tackle box makers. By the way, I’ve been fishing for 44 years, and I only have a dozen tackle boxes … not counting the little ones.

I mostly freshwater fish, so I have two tackle boxes, one for fresh and a smaller one for salt. When I get too much freshwater gear and outgrow my box, I transfer all my saltwater stuff into it and give the smallest one to Goodwill. I’ve gone through about 4, and my freshwater box is now at the largest size Plano you can get without having dual side opening trays. I think I’m going to be keeping my current one for awhile Cant remember the brand..but i saw one at wal-mart ,pretty big with removable clear boxes you could fit in a pocket for hiking,quick trip etc..

Mega Man fans visit alt.games.megaman Quint’s page of Rockman manga scans: http://www.crosswinds.net/~sakugarne

Response:

Question:

I’m wondering if any of you know what kind of paint is used on pastic baits and where would  you purchse some if you wanted to paint your own.

Response:

Are you holding out on me, Jim? I didn’t know you were using Pastic Baits!!!!!!! Is that a new sponsor?

Response:

Try Jann’s Netcraft or Lurecraft on the net. — The RodMaker http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/2865

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering if any of you know what kind of paint is used on pastic baits and where would  you purchse some if you wanted to paint your own.

Response:

I use airplane model paint  for my bass poppers (the ones with plastic bodies) which I fly fish with. Works well on plastic. Probably would work on metal. So cheap it is probably worth a try unless you get a better suggestion. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

I use Tester Model Paint it seems to work pretty well FISH-ON FISH-HARD

Response:

Question:

Thanks, I may give it a shot sometime soon. In a sit-on-top kayak, staying dry is not much of an option<g. I would expect to stay in pretty close to shore and away from other boats though. I’m not sure since I have never kayaked…but I have used a lake canoe out there.  It is advisable of course to use it in areas where you can avoid heavy boat traffice <obviously. But to answer your question simply…yes…it would probably be a godsend for you. Make sure you have enough room to keep stuff dry Tight lines,

– Charlie…

Response:

I’m not sure since I have never kayaked…but I have used a lake canoe out there.  It is advisable of course to use it in areas where you can avoid heavy boat traffice <obviously. But to answer your question simply…yes…it would probably be a godsend for you. Make sure you have enough room to keep stuff dry Tight lines, — Nicholas J. Slodki

:Nicholas, : :Would a sea kayak be any good down there. I just bought a sit-on-top :and have been thinking about trying it around that area (I’m in :Atlanta). Thanks. : : :Bryan, : :I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. : :What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type :II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. : :If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes :in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t :had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be :relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving :into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is :approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, :pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small :sharks should be everywhere. : :Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. :Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. :albrighted to the tippet. : oppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, :specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger :than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, :white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass :minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. : :Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from :shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a :good pair of sunglasses. : :Hope this was helpful to you. : :– :Charlie…

Response:

Bryan, I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small sharks should be everywhere. Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. albrighted to the tippet. Poppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a good pair of sunglasses. Hope this was helpful to you. — Nicholas J. Slodki

:I am looking for anyone who may have some tips to share for fly fishing near :the Sandestin Resort in Florida.  I am planning to go mid October. Any :information on areas and tackle would be very helpful to a new initiate. : : :

Response:

Nicholas, Would a sea kayak be any good down there. I just bought a sit-on-top and have been thinking about trying it around that area (I’m in Atlanta). Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bryan, I’ve lived in that area many times before and visit constantly. What I suggest is an outfit from 7-10 wt., WF Intermediate or sinktip type II, and a reel with a min. of 220 yards of 20lb.  backing. If you head over toward panama city or are able to get back in the marshes in Choctawhatchee and St. Andrews Bays, you’re in for a treat.  They haven’t had much rain down there until this last week and the water should be relatively clear and the bottom stable.  Redfish and Seatrout will be moving into the back harbors and inlets at this time of year as winter is approaching.  On the jetties at the pass entrances, spanish mackerel, reds, pomano in the surf and flats, jacks, possibly some blues, specks and small sharks should be everywhere. Leaders should be no less 7′ and tapered to a min. of 10lb. class tippet. Shock tippets would be good for the spanish…about a foot of 30lb. albrighted to the tippet. Poppers are a must on the flats in the early mornings or evenings for reds, specks and jacks.  Some dredging flies <McCrab, clousers, Puffs no larger than a size 1 hook are good during the day.  Also deceivers in red/yellow, white/yellow, white/black are excellent.  For the spanish macks, glass minnows in a fast retrieve are way good. Make sure you bring a good pair of wading shoes that protect your feet from shell debris and stingrays (yes, they’re everywhere too lol), a hat, and a good pair of sunglasses. Hope this was helpful to you.

– Charlie…

Response:

I am looking for anyone who may have some tips to share for fly fishing near the Sandestin Resort in Florida.  I am planning to go mid October. Any information on areas and tackle would be very helpful to a new initiate.

Response:

Question:

I was recently introduced to fly fishing ( a long story of which I will spare you the details).  I took a 1/2 day lesson with a very experienced instructor which I greatly enjoyed and considered very valuable.  I know I still have a lot to learn and look forward to it, but I cannot afford more lessons.  Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera.  On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, …  I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer … plus a good friendship.  I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you. Let me know if you want to know more about myself or perhaps meet me.  I look forward to hearing from you.  Thank you so much in advance. Rafael  

Response:

<snip  Would anybody out there be willing to take me under their wing? I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe;<snip  On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, <snip  I live in Manchester, CT and be willing to drive anywhere to meet you.

  Drive on out to Colorado and bring a box of Cohibas, and I will let you watch me fish. You can surprise me with the good food and beer.                                    Charlie

Response:

Try finding a local flyfishing club.  Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport.  Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with.  My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes.  I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local. —                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I promise not to take much of your time if you just let me observe; let me know how I am doing every now and then; tell me some fly fishing stories you hvae experienced over the years; etcetera.

Response:

Try finding a local flyfishing club.  Dues are usually very nominal and such clubs often offer neophytes free instruction in various aspects of the sport.  Also, you’ll meet people there who you can buddy up with.  My club in San Diego organizes 3 or 4 long range trips per year, shorter range trips (within State) about once a month and weekly meets at the local lakes.  I cannot thing of a better way to get into and enjoy the sport than through your flyfishing local.

– Rafael, ol’ buddy. This could be your most important flyfishing lesson of all. Never trust any flyfisherman who turns down a good cigar, good food, and good beer. Club schmub. Gas up and head for Colorado. That was a much better deal:)) BP

Response:

Actually Meta might be right.  Obviously clubs aren’t for him.  That offer from Colorado does sound pretty good.  If you want to drive all that way to become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself.  If that doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy.  Actually, you could try a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.–                                                            -dnc- PS.  By the way, I would gladly take you up on your offer for food and beer.  But alas, I hate cigars.  So I guess maybe you could trust me about two-thirds of the time.  Or perhaps the cigar thing is the telling factor, we’ll have to wait for sage Meta to pass us the phacts on that one.

Response:

On our outtings, I could provide with excellent food, good beer, a good cigar, …  I know that this is not much to offer in return, but that’s all I can offer …

Sounds like a HELL of an offer to me… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<Actually Meta might be right.  Obviously clubs aren’t for him.  That offer <from Colorado does sound pretty good.  If you want to drive all that way to <become a cook and give up your best Cubans, please suit yourself.  If that <doesn’t work out, you can still use a local club as your back up, and you <can always quit that, if it doesn’t suit your fancy.  Actually, you could t<ry a club first, if one exists locally, and find out if that suits you. <Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– <   <                                                         -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles.  Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless? Given the options to fish there, would one really want to spend the summer talking about ff in CT by comparison? Why drive? United, who does allow you to carry on flyrods, flies there cheap. As for cigars, I thought Rafael was gettin’  off easy only having to supply Cohibas instead of providing the proper cigar for each hatch. And he did say good food, so let’s at least call him a chef. But for clubs, to paraphrase Graucho Marx (famous cigar smoker), " I wouldn’t join any club that would have me as a member."

Response:

<Never trust a man who tries to convince you to limit your options.– <   <                                                         -dnc- (It’s gettin’ a little too southern California serious for me.I don’t know, maybe its cause they don’t have any spring creeks for 100s of miles.  Please plant tongue firmly in cheek before reading.) Limit Options hell. Keep em wide open. How about Cheeseman, Frying Pan, Blue, and a hundred others that I’m sure shall remain nameless?

Not too serious, I hope.  But your rejoinder has given me a good laugh, so thank you…I think.  Unfortunately, you are 100% correct about the spring creeks (not even sure if I could define the term, although smooth water and the need for delicate presentation comes to mind…certainly an experience to be sought, and probably worth a few cigars!). As far as clubs go, they can offer an awful lot of free information for the urbanite neophyte.  So I say try it.  It couldn’t hoit.  Who knows, they might offer you a cigar.

Response:

(JRGonza) writes: SNIP<

I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too).  Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs.   99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice.  Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky.  Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out).  Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing.  I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP

Response:

The Curtis Creek Manifesto is hilarious and good.  The author was a friend of my Dads and he lived near the Williamson River in Oregon.  He’s dead now, the victim, I think, of hard and fast living. As for mentors, my Dad was the best for me.  I am a fourth generation fly fisherman and that wisdom of the ages is good to have. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (JRGonza) writes: SNIP< I’d suggest tracking down a copy of the "Curtis Creek Manifesto," an excellent primer (humorous too).  Then, while you’re browsing around the fly shops looking for it, ask about local flyfishing clubs.   99.99999% of flyfishing is going to be practice.  Here’s a tip: to catch fish, you don’t have to be a great caster, just learn to be sneaky.  Most of your casts will be thirty feet or less (10′ leader and 20′ of line out).  Learning not to spook the fish is a good thing.  I have caught some very nice Brown’s by hiding in the bushes and flipping a beetle over some grass into a lake with nothing but leader out. Oh yeah, buy a good pair of polarized glasses…makes a huge difference. Good luck! DP

Response:

Question:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly.

Response:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly.

I would use longer leaders on lakes, ranging from 9 to 15 foot on floating lines. Tippets size will depend on conditions and fly size. For dries tippet from 5x to 7x should fit most situations. Wet flies are usually fished on 3x to 5x tippets. This is general info that should help someone that is getting started, not you experts. On sinking lines in still water I would try 7 1/2 to 9 foot leaders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I’d like to know which leader to use when fishing on lakes-reservoirs with dry and wet fly. It depends entirely on the body of water and who lives there.  If it’s large, stocked Res and you intend to use large streamers or buggers on sinking line, I tend to use shorter, heavier leaders.  I’ve used 3 foot leaders tapered to, oh, 10 and 12 lb test and have been very successful in such situations.         On still water rich with natural trout food and wild fish, especially the small stuff, your success will improve greatly with a longer, much lighter leader.  10 – 12  feet to 5X is pretty standard fishing wet. For dries this would be a minimum, and an additional length of 6X will

Response:

Question:

Bob, how about…. You don’t feel self-conscious in the doctor’s waiting room with a size 12 Cream Variant in the top of your head. You see nothing unusual about standing in water so cold that ice rings are forming around your legs. Now pass the head cement, I need a hit! Steve

Response:

…….    Criteria for FFA membership: …….    (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and  knows enough not to tell anyone about it.

Respectfully requesting the second word of criteria #5 be changed from "wife" to "spouse".  The tagalong-if-he-has-to part of the family dislikes being called a "wife" and he has even managed to scrounge peacock feathers for me.                         —Jewelee

Response:

Jewelee — Right on … will make the change as noted. (PS: I should have been more thoughtful. I certainly never considered my spouse a tag-a-long … she outspots me and every guide in the Keys. and outfishes most anglers) Welcome to the FFA. THANKS….BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …….    Criteria for FFA membership: …….    (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and  knows enough not to tell anyone about it. Respectfully requesting the second word of criteria #5 be changed from "wife" to "spouse".  The tagalong-if-he-has-to part of the family dislikes being called a "wife" and he has even managed to scrounge peacock feathers for me.                         —Jewelee

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays.

snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson

Or Windknot.

Response:

Geeze … and I thought I was clever when I nicknamed my kid "Lefty." BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. Ross Wilson Or Windknot.

Response:

snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis.

On the other hand, maybe it’s really Rhyacophila! -Burton

Response:

Ok…you guys are in, but when are your kids’ birthdays? I know one of my kids was born about 23 days after the opening of trout season, but can’t remember the other three.BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. snip Your kid’s name is Caddis. On the other hand, maybe it’s really Rhyacophila! -Burton

Response:

Having concluded that fly fishing is an addiction, I am starting a NP-organization called Fly Fishing Anonymous (FFA). We’ll have our first annual meeting somewhere appropriate (how about So. Andros Island in May?). Anyone who meets the following criteria can join. (Since this is the first posting, please feel free to add your own suggestions for membership. All reasonably addictive behaviors will be considered as eligibility for membership.) Thanks…BobE., Rochester, NY Criteria for FFA membership: (1) You currently have callouses and line cuts on both index fingers. (2) You own at least six hook hones. (3) You don’t feel self-conscious standing in line at the checkout of a crowded discount store with six bottles of Sally Hanson’s hard as nails. (4) You know why Hunt Valley has displaced Cockeysville as the center of the flyfishing universe. (Hint: See Bernard’s new business card.) (5) Your wife helps you pluck the feathers off a road-killed grouse and knows enough not to tell anyone about it. (6) You have expired fishing licenses from 4 or more states. (You get to be president if all four of the licenses are valid.) (7) Bob Berger and Chet Pryor know you by your first name. (8) You not only know the rational behind the sizing system of fly tying thread (size A to 9/0), but you also know what the sizes relate to in actual diameters. (9) You know the latin names of all the major insect hatches on your home stream, but you can’t remember your kids’ birthdays. (10) You have fished alone from 11 pm to 8 am in both freshwater and saltwater. Other suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks. BobE.

Response:

Question:

Dams and pondliners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.

Right. And when (not if) those liners fail: 100 years, 500 years, even 2000 years if wer’e really lucky, the entire area becomes a superfund site.  Note that the acid leaches lots of heavy metals, highly toxic, *other* than gold, which poison the ground and the water supply. – - – the cyanide is not the major problem!    it’s the leached metals – - – which Jim won’t discuss I suppose Jim is gonna claim that the damn $1.83 per acre will pay for the impossible clean-up, like it has in Colarado? Jim, exactly how would you clean up those Colorado acid leach sites ??? – - –   Funny thing these ‘white people’: They see a mountain, all they want to do is blow it into a pile of acid leaching crap (note the acid leached a lot of *really* poisonous heavy metals). For a few pounds of shiny yellow metal, which they’ve already got more of in Fort Knox than they can do anything productive or pretty with.   Then these ‘white people’ take the money, declare the company bankrupt, and skip town… all the time whining about how we are interfering with ‘their west’.   If this is an excuse to make them rich at taxpayer expense, lets just bring back welfare and GIVE them the damn money *not* to totally fuck up the place. Let ‘em sit at home and watch TV. I’ve seen enough hard rock mining shit to care a lot about this… I’m not sorry about the language.

Response:

Yeah sure cyanide disappers quickly. We have an old  Phelps Dodge outside Pecos, right on the river. Between the mercury and the cyanide in that area you are not advised to eat the fish. I have fished that area and the coating on my fly poles have been eaten off. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.

Seadog – Still lost at Sea

Response:

  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.

Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks,  the word MOST is very misleading.  Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see.  And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn

Response:

  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.

Yes, but this is the first ever "gold" mining venture, in which gold is the primary objective.  Of course they have removed gold from copper operations, but they were not "gold" mining.    Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks,  the word MOST is very misleading.  Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see.  And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn This statement is also true.  Mines that have used the heap-leach method

use impoundment dams that collect the waste cyanide.  The dams are lined with polyurethane liners that are as thick as a nickel.  In addition, the ore piles are put on top of polyurethane sheets which are supposed to keep the cyanide out of groundwater.  Every major Montana mine; and large mining companies are the primary users of cyanide-leaching has been cited for some type of water quality violation, most of which are related to cyanide leakage.  The liners are often the reason for the leak; holes, tears, seam leakage.  Rain storms have been a cause also, as they have filled up waste reservoirs and caused them to overflow.  If cyanide gets into groundwater, it gets into streams.     A large enough cyanide spill, or consistent leakage can persist for a long time in streams and rivers.  Usually, by the time groundwater leakage of cyanide is detected by the EPA or the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), because mining companies are not likely to report, or even know about many of these leaks, they have already done their damage.  Aquatic life is much more sensitive to cyanide in lesser amounts than non aquatic life.   Shawn, keep in mind that the mining industry in Montana may be different from the industry in other states.  Our water quality laws are much more lenient than many places, thus, it is important to pass I-122.  Our past mining history shows that.  If you have any questions about the record regarding cyanide leakage, just contact the Montana Environmental Information Center, who’s address is in my original letter.  Or better yet, come to Montana sometime and see the destruction left in the place where a mountain was before, and fish the rivers that once had fish!                            Craig

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah sure cyanide disappers quickly. We have an old  Phelps Dodge outside Pecos, right on the river. Between the mercury and the cyanide in that area you are not advised to eat the fish. I have fished that area and the coating on my fly poles have been eaten off. Seadog – Still lost at Sea

Response:

  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has

<snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.

Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids. Jim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.

In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.

Response:

            BIG INDUSTRY GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVER   The Blackfoot River, which has flowed clean and cold in Montana from its headwaters near the continental divide for thousands of years is now being threatened by a huge open-pit cyanide heap-leach mine.  The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp. and Canyon Resources Inc. – the Seven-Up Pete Joint Venture, wants to mine the river’s headwaters for gold.  The mine site, including 172 million pounds of cyanide, which will be poured over 980 million tons of removed ore from the mountain will sit just 1/4 mile from the Blackfoot River.  (The Blackfoot River, by the way was recently made famous by Norman Maclean in his novel "A River Runs Through It".)   To get at the gold, buried 1,200 feet underground in trace amounts, the mining company will have to dismantle two pine-covered buttes, and for each ton of ore, the miners will recover 0.02 ounces of gold.  The remaining pit, more than a mile across and deep enough to hide the Washington Monument will collect groundwater which will be contaminated with heavy metals, and will have to be pumped out at the rate of 15.8 million gallons a day.   In Butte Montana, the Berkely Pit copper mine, which is no longer in operation has a similar sized hole.  The pit is filling up with water, and officials have no way to get rid of the Carcinogen’s, toxins or metals in it, which have already leaked into the water table of the town of Butte.  The mines copper smelter, the Anaconda Smelter has dumped tons of waste sediment into the Clark Fork River which has already caused several fish-kills, and water quality problems in my town, Missoula MT.   The Blackfoot River feeds into the Clark Fork to the East, before it flows into Missoula, which means that a spill or leak of cyanide or heavy metals into the Blackfoot, would also terminally harm the Clark Fork. Both rivers are currently used regularly for rafting, kayaking, fly fishing and other recreations.   The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has had accidents at virtually all its mines.  It has been cited and fined frequently for toxic discharges into nearby waters.  The company has never mined gold in the United States.   Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts.  Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.  Even in dilute solutions, cyanide kills fish and other life forms.  A leak of this chemical poison into the Blackfoot could finish the river for decades.   In November, the people of Montana will be voting for or against Initiative 122, "The Clean Water Initiative".  This initiative demands higher standards for removal of carcinogens and toxins before being discharged into state waters.  The current law, one of the most lax water quality laws in the country, allows mine discharges to be diluted after release into state waters, where it is measured down stream after a "mixing zone".  The "mixing zone" technique uses the river to dilute waste rather than using expensive machinery to filter it out. The current "easy to mine cheaply" water law is one of the reasons so many mining corporations seek Montana sites over mine sites in other states.   The Phelps Dodge Mining Co. has spent over 1 million dollars on TV and radio adds in recent months, which Missoula and other communities across the state have been bombarded with.  The adds claim that state water laws are sufficient, which they clearly are not, and that stricter laws for removing higher levels of poisons before discharge from mines will put many mines out of business and hurt the states economy. The so-called "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws" advertisements that the mining industry has created have been cited as being "illegal" by the fair-election watchdog group, "Common Cause".   "Using a misleading name, "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws," to run a million-dollar media blitz, the Industry is succeeding in changing citizen beliefs, and they’re breaking the law to do it."  (Hal Harper, Democratic state representative from Helena, MT.)  Unfortunately, many people in the state have been scared by these ads, and swayed into believing that I-122 will hurt the economy and that it unfairly targets the mining industry.  The fact is that mining state-wide, accounts for less than one percent of the workforce, and mining has a long history of causing post mining recessions that hurt the economy.     On top of the adds, the mining industry has donated computers to the local high school, X-ray machines to the local clinic and it helped to insulate the local senior citizens facility in an attempt to win support for the upcoming vote against the Clean Water Initiative.  Proponents of I-122 believe that if a mine can not find a way to clean up their mess before they release water into the river, they should not be mining in the first place.     Supporters of I-122 have raised only around 300 thousand dollars toward the fight to make higher water quality standards law, so we need as much support as possible.  The Clark Fork-Pend Oreille Coalition recommends writing or contacting the following people to voice your opinion or concerns:  Write to Montana governor Marc Racicot, who currently favors mining and opposes I-122.                              Gov. Marc Racicot                          Capitol Station                          Helena, MT 59620                          (406)444-3111 The Phelps Dodge Mine Co. has applied to the Montana Department of Environmental Quality  (DEQ) for a permit to build this mine.  Write Sandi Olsen at the DEQ.  Ask her to put you on the mailing list for public scoping on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that the DEQ will prepare once it deems Phelps Dodge’s application complete.  The findings are what determine whether the state approves or denies this permit.                          Sandi Olsen                          Montana DEQ                          P.O. Box 200901                          Helena, MT 59620                          (406)444-4988   Write a letter to your local newspaper.  Explain that the Blackfoot is too precious to trade for the short-term and questionable benefits from mining.  Remember; this is not just a Montana problem.  We all need to speak out against giant corporations that value their own interests of profit and gain over people and environment!  For more information and updates on this issue, please contact the following:                           Clark Fork- pend Oreille Coalition                       P.O. Box 7593                                                     Missoula, MT 59807                       (406)542-0539                       Montana Council of Trout Unlimited                       P.O Box 7186                       Missoula, MT 59807                       (406)543-0054                       Montana Environmental Information Center                       P.O. Box 1184                       Helena, MT 59624                       (406)443-2520    I am a University of Montana student and am not affiliated with any of the above organizations.  I am just attempting to help get the word out that what may happen if I-122 loses, is the destruction of a river and an eco-system that can not be replaced for decades.   Much of the above information came from articles from the San Francisco Examiner, The Missoulian, the Great Falls Tribune, the Clark Fork-pend Oreille Coalition and my own research and discussions with other sources.                   Craig Murphy

Response:

Question:

I would like to buy waders for my wife, a very small woman. I want gore-tex or supplex or a very light well made pair – any suggestions? Thanks, Fred Lebow

Response:

I would like to buy waders for my wife, a very small woman. I want gore-tex or supplex or a very light well made pair – any suggestions?

    Simms makes their Gore-Tex waders in a wide range of sizes including some that are more suitable for women than the normal cut.  If you can find a local store than handles them, they should be able to call Simms and get direct advice as to the best size to order. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/lrf_home_page.html has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

Seems like a reasonable trade. TimW {I just *love* that joke, it is ageless}

Response:

Seems like a reasonable trade. {I just *love* that joke, it is ageless}

As evidenced by the number of times you’ve used it…:) Ross

Response:

I would like to buy waders for my wife, a very small woman. I want gore-tex or supplex or a very light well made pair – any suggestions?

Two sources are Orvis and Damselfly. I’m at work or I’d post the phone #’s from my catalogues (both at home). — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

Response:

Question:

We have had reports of steelhead being caught on flies in several rivers. The Umpqua, Deschutes and Rogue rivers have produced for some of our customers in the last few weeks. I like September/October for the best water temperatures. If the water is in the 55/65 degree range you will have steelhead really moving to the fly. In the winter the water can get into the under 50 degree range which really makes it hard for most fly fishers to catch steelhead. Don’t get me wrong, you can catch fish in the winter, Dec/Jan/Feb, it is just a little harder to get the fish to move to the fly. Early and late in the day is prime time for swinging flies on or near the surface for steelhead. Fishing with the sun off the water is the normal rule. After the sun hit the water you can get down to the bottom with any method you can. Fall steelhead can be found in many rivers from northern California to British Columbia. Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

   I have been told by the steelhead experts at my favorite local flyshop that if/when the steelhead goes on the endangered list that all hatcheries will be shut down and sportfishing will be prohibited.  Call me a pessimist, but if this is true, I think it’s too bad that we will just stand around on the bank with our hands in our pockets while the last few steelhead in the lower 48 die.  After all, sportfishing has little or nothing to do with the decline in the population and we are surely dreaming if we think the dams will come down in time.    By the way, any predictions or advice for the Clearwater in late October? -al

Response:

Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Great post!  However, I take issue with the last sentence.  I make a large distinction between wild (i.e. unmarked) and hatchery fish.  I used to release most hatchery fish and all wild fish.  I still release all wild fish, but now retain all hatchery fish – if for no other reason than to prevent the possible breeding between hatchery and wild fish.  We have to preserve wild stocks so that there is something to left when the hatchery fish all die off from disease. cheers, -tony gades — Tony Gades website:   http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades

Response:

Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be

taken for a trophy or dinner. Every hatchery Steelhead should be taken when ever legal. T Wolf

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA Great post!  However, I take issue with the last sentence.  I make a large distinction between wild (i.e. unmarked) and hatchery fish.  I used to release most hatchery fish and all wild fish.  I still release all wild fish, but now retain all hatchery fish – if for no other reason than to prevent the possible breeding between hatchery and wild fish.  We have to preserve wild stocks so that there is something to left when the hatchery fish all die off from disease. cheers, -tony gades — Tony Gades website:   http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades

Responsible citizens have a social duty to remove inferior specimens from the gene pool.  Releasing hatchery fish to genetically pollute wild stodks is an abdication of that responsibility.   Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have had reports of steelhead being caught on flies in several rivers. The Umpqua, Deschutes and Rogue rivers have produced for some of our customers in the last few weeks. I like September/October for the best water temperatures. If the water is in the 55/65 degree range you will have steelhead really moving to the fly. In the winter the water can get into the under 50 degree range which really makes it hard for most fly fishers to catch steelhead. Don’t get me wrong, you can catch fish in the winter, Dec/Jan/Feb, it is just a little harder to get the fish to move to the fly. Early and late in the day is prime time for swinging flies on or near the surface for steelhead. Fishing with the sun off the water is the normal rule. After the sun hit the water you can get down to the bottom with any method you can. Fall steelhead can be found in many rivers from northern California to British Columbia. Steelhead are a treasure only found in North America and should never be taken for a trophy or dinner. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

I was lucky to have fished for steelhead with some good anglers in the 60’s and 70’s when it was not that hard to catch them. It is very sad to see what has happened to their habitat. I have old friends, Joe Shirshac and Walt Bennette, that started fly fishing for steelhead just after WWII. They have some wonderful stories and pictures from the good old days. I agree that all wild steelhead should be released and all hatchery fish should be taken. I wish that we could start with a few good rivers and blow the dams out. If we had some decent water and a wild river I think in time runs would come back. I will be out on the American river the next few weeks looking for our half-pounder run that is best in September. I have fished for these little fish for 35 years. They run 16" plus and are great friends. I have caught them over 5 pounds on a dry fly and 7 pounds on a wet. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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