Question:

Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Next time I’m out with my Force Fins, I’ll just have the water skier hold the GPS for me.  That way I can watch where I’m going bruce h

Response:

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun. Thanks much, Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Thanks Bill, I’ve become accustomed to fishing without boots – just using a neoprene booty which is pretty comfortable for long days on the lake.   In an another post "Bruiser" indicated originals fit better for this application than the adjustables? Although it isn’t often, I have had occassions where it would have been an advantage to be wearing boots – so I’m wondering if the adjustable model is just for boots or is it as comfortable as the original without boots?  And of course, is there enough slack in the adjustment to accomodate both modes? Thanks for your time, – Dick

Response:

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun.

Don’t hold your breath. It’ll be some time before I can do tube time trials with my Force Fins… fwiw, though, I don’t think the Force Fins are all that special wrt to making good time, but they’re the only fins I’ve ever owned that I can walk *forward* in while wearing a tube without inevitably doing a face plant. They’re definitely worth it for that, though there is that risk of a tether failure losing one to the deep… /daytripper (T-13 Hours)

Response:

I cant remember exactly when it was…maybe around 1990, the maker of force fins was in the process of developing fins that float.  I haven’t shopped for much fishing gear in last few years so I’m not sure if there are any on the market Go Oregon Ducks…The  Big Green Scoring Machine

Response:

I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.     I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

Response:

I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.

    I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

Response:

Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Yeah. That’ll happen.

Response:

Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas

…  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

   good vibes to you

As long as they’re not in the doc’s hands. <g Good luck DT. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello All, I use to do lots of float tubing but in the last decade I have done more fishing from small boats. Last spring, I took my wife out for her first time ever float tubing. We were both in fairly similar V-boats but I gave her the Force Fins($100) and I had a pair of Caddis fins($40). I felt with our difference in "horse power" that it would be about an equal race. Well, I could never keep up with her and I tried so hard to catch her I almost killed myself. I was "steaming" to the back of a small lake to get to a fishing spot where a small stream comes in. I made a straight line and kicked with everything I had. My wife would come by me and then make circles around me, talking all the time about how fun this was and I still could not "leave her in the dust" ??? I am a believer. Force Fins are the best. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas …  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

FWIW, I really like the adjustable Force Fins. They fit better over wading boots.  The regular Force fins seem to fit better if you just wear a small neoprene bootie. bruce h

Response:

Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks. Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today. The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!

        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!    what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

        hey, man, i will bust your ass for that response…if you promise me that you will get through this *last* bit of surgery in good shape!         good vibes to you, from your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks.   Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today.   The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

Response:

Question:

All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right. Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Response:

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Because it had angular momentum. (Watch out for Wayno’s nausea spasm!) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way. Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective? Yep. Demios & Phobos. From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

Yes that’s strange and doesn’t fit in with the initial rotating disc theory at all.  Do you think that Mars aquired them in later life?  If they are orbiting that fast then they are probably smaller than our moon.  Do they interfere with each other in a gravitational sense?  I assume that they are in ecliptic plane too, so if they are orbiting at different heights from the planet’s surface they will pass close to each other now and then.  Could they possibly be 2 halves (or parts) of a small moon that was hit by a passing asteroid?

Response:

why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

From our perspective where the Moon goes (slowly) right to left, the two bitty Martian moons (probably don’t create shadows at night as we’re accustomed to) go rather rapidly – one could see the apparent movement with a little patience – go left to right.

    god is ambidextrious, i reckon. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun. Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Response:

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Angular momentum. TL MC

Response:

    god is ambidextrious, i reckon.

Nahh, assuming the existence of such a creature, devious at best. TL MC

Response:

Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing? Well, yes and no.  Initially there was a rotating disk of dust and gas. The sun formed at the center of the disk, and later the planets and other orbiting bodies formed in orbits around the proto-sun.

Why was this initial cloud in a disk shape,  and why was it rotating?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction?

I didn’t know that Mars has any moons, I do know that it has the largest volcano in solar system Olympus Mons or something like that any way.  Anyhow back to the martian moons, when you say go in the wrong direction do you mean their orbital paths are clockwise from a northern perspective?

Response:

Do you think it will make the fish bite better?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~

Response:

Slarty Bartfast made them that way, It’s all in the book.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does. My Psion 5MX has a program called Solun and predicts the positions  of the celestial bodies to an impressive display.  I find out that all planets (except pluto), the sun  & our moon form a plane called the "ecliptic".  I can understand why the moon orbits the earth keeping in between the gravitational pulls of the earth & sun  (I imagine that Jupiter’s moons do likewise), but I wonder why all of the other planets (except Pluto) do as well.  I know that the planets all orbit in the same direction (anticlockwise from my NH perspective), but why in the same plane?  I wonder about the directions all being the same being the key to the formation of the ecliptic plane.  Did the early sun pull in a cloud of dust into a giant saturn-like ring of orbiting debris which would later congeal to form the present day planets,  or is there something else that I am missing?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I reckon someone on this NG might be able to answer this. Over the last few weeks, I have been checking out the recent planetary alignment  (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn?) I can see all out (except mercury) of my skylight window in the attic ~ where I have my PC.  In the last few weeks I have developed an interest as to what our solar system is, and how was it formed to reveal itself to our eyes as it presently does…snip..? All these other folks have helpful comments (well, most of them). After you’ve digested those, try this: why do the moons of Mars go in the "wrong" direction? Pete — If the assumptions are wrong, the conclusions aren’t likely to be very good.    R. E. Machol

Sigh . . . . . . . I just wanted to go fly fishing on my planet . . . now I learn my universe has issues . . . who would of thunk it?  (as you are aware from my post, certainly not me) Going to the Arkansas River in central Colorado next week to get involved in the infamous "Mother’s Day Caddis Hatch". We eat them saut

Question:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… "….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…." Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

thanks jeffie…. bartram’s travels is a classic….. well worth the read. –waldo, hoping i still have a copy somewheres…

Response:

Appreciate posts on FF history, thanx. Dave

Response:

Jeff  I missed the post explaing UnC  web to read early Bartram—-please offer again– Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think )   motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

Response:

Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think ) motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

I believe that somehow I must be related to Jeff Miller. I’m off to call my mom. –Steve

Response:

i think this is what you wanted, but not sure…  http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html …i’m probably not gonna be able to get back to the mountains before christmas… but i might get ol pj and make a visit to you and that bass pond you keep braggin about… we’d arrive early and leave late, eat all your food, and drink your whisky… and since jim’s comin, you might wanna warn dene too… i hear it’s nice in wilmington this time of year… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida…

"….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…."   Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

Response:

That ‘delicious food’ part doesn’t seem to fit, does it? riverman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108 "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it. THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks:

this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the

boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of

the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout

instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a

possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does

by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to

raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant

fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it. THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and

consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with

transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light

reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular,

this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening

and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey,

discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed

it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in

order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they

strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the

tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West

Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the

Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions,

Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North

Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html —–        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization

project, Documenting the American South. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108         "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it.         THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks: this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it.         THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular, this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey, discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions, Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html         The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

Question:

Ya know….For all the loathing you receive from this group, there is nobody here that discredits you more than you discredit yourself. Over, and over, and over again, you prove just how huge a fraud you really are. It’s simply stunning…Boggles the mind, really. /daytripper (You even make Clinton look honest…)

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

I looked back on this, and it occurred to me that some might have thought I was making light of Charlie’s notice of G’s hanky-panky regarding his report.  In case there is any doubt, I meant to satire George’s "copyright" signature nonsense in _his_ posts contrasted with his willingness to completely ignore the intended purposes and even the copyrights on the work, including books, of others.  The fact that he has misrepresented, or plagiarized outright, others’ writings should come as no surprise. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"I purchased a Gehrke bamboo rod in October of 1999 and wrote a long and thoughtful review of the rod. It was a decent rod despite a few cosmetic flaws (wrap gaps, spotty varnish, dirtiness beneath the varnish primarily at the nodes, use of epoxy instead of varnish on the wraps). Regardless, the rod was arguably worth the $383 despite its imperfections.

Or about the price of a used Granger in decent condition? While it would be a used rod, it would likely be free of the sort of imperfections you encountered. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Reminds me of Arnold J. Rimmer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

)) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reminds me of Arnold J. Rimmer. — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Well, it seems he got a few people to go to his site, maybe it was in danger of fading away unless somebody looked (does a web site exist if nobody visits?). <g — Charlie…

Response:

No Dave it is AM(Almost M).Gink ain’t got what it takes to produce true FM.  For Flyfishers only: A bottle of Gink to make ‘em stink,A bottle of wine to make ‘em shine. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zimbo writes: I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries. It’s FM, Zim. Dave

Response:

George, Are we boasting or doing a little self promotion? Isn’t it amazing how 18 people from around the country all post testamonials within 40 minutes of each other. Paul

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum! I don’t find it amazing at all that the crazed p.t. barnum lunatic of flyfishing did this…. kinda follows his pattern…. lies, lies, and more lies…. –walt

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!

    I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!     I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

there is that little, perchance illegal, indescretion. –walt

Response:

I find it amazing that Charlie Wilson just got back from the Western Clave…. what a trout bum!    I found it amazing that the product report I posted to roff appeared on a commercial site…..

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Response:

Zimbo writes: I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries.

It’s FM, Zim. Dave

Response:

Did you copyright it?  If so, I’d have the legal team of Bert, Ernie, and Oscar look into it…

Well, as a last resort, you could duelly reprot him to his ISP…. TC, R

Response:

– http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

George, Are we boasting or doing a little self promotion? Isn’t it amazing how 18 people from around the country all post testamonials within 40 minutes of each other. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

Response:

http://www.gink.com/cgi-bin/guestbook/igb.cgi

I find it very curious that several of the entries in the guestbook seem to have been written over a year ago but magically appeared within a one-day span several days ago. I also find it interesting that despite there being a 25 character minimum size limit for a comment, many of the entries are fewer than 25 characters. It would seem unethical to transcribe dated testimonials to make them appear to be guestbook entries. Since I’m quite certain my guestbook entry dated "Apr 5, 2001 – 04:18:42" will be promptly removed from Mr. Gehrke’s site, I have copied it in its entirety and included it here: "I purchased a Gehrke bamboo rod in October of 1999 and wrote a long and thoughtful review of the rod. It was a decent rod despite a few cosmetic flaws (wrap gaps, spotty varnish, dirtiness beneath the varnish primarily at the nodes, use of epoxy instead of varnish on the wraps). Regardless, the rod was arguably worth the $383 despite its imperfections. However, after receiving my rod several of my friends received rods in much poorer condition than mine. In fact, Mr. Gehrke actually had the brazen gall to send the same defective rod to several different individuals. When they returned the rod, he would become angry and make disparaging personal remarks about them on a the fly fishing newsgroup. He would then simply send the same rod to another unsuspecting individual. Mr. Gehrke’s dishonesty and misrepresentation combined with the $100 increased price for the model of rod I purchased make the product one I definitely do NOT recommend. Let the buyer beware." –Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Question:

Ken you want to respond to this one?

I didn’t see the original post.  Wouldn’t have known about it except for your response.  Did my server overlook something on ROFF, or did you find this somewhere else? Wolfgang

Response:

<SNIPPED Is anyone else seeing the "Hard Working Latinos" thread?  And _I_ get branded a racist for a clearly over-the-top post in the midst of it all?  Sheesh… They are LONG posts, so here is some header info if anyone wants to go to Deja and read it the whole saga:

TC, R

Response:

Original went out to 4 news groups rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, rec.outdoors.national-parks, rec.outdoors.rv-travel So you must have missed all of Muskies posts

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did it get filtered or did your server miss it. The original post went to a bunch of newsgroups. I replied to only this one. Bellsout.net filters out crossposted spam, I’m not sure how many crossposted newsgroups in a post it takes to get filtered – maybe 10 or so. — Charlie…

Response:

So you must have missed all of Muskies posts

I filter them myself<g. This one must have met some other criteria, I know a lot of the really outrageous one’s I see replies to never get to me in their original form. — Charlie…

Response:

Sorry, I had meant to snip it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Paul, did you have to quote that thing?  My ISP was nice enough to filter it for me… <snipped

Response:

Is anyone else seeing the "Hard Working Latinos" thread?  And _I_ get branded a racist for a clearly over-the-top post in the midst of it all?  Sheesh… Are you really unable to see why people would be more likely to respond to your posts than to an infrequent, obvious troll by someone who doesn’t participate in this newsgroup?

Well, no.  I didn’t post the joke for responses, I posted it as a commentary, hence the stuff before and after the "joke."  But when certain "hall monitors" got on their high horses, I did gig ‘em (No, that wasn’t an Aggie slur).   One thing I do find odd, however: most replies were cries of "Racist!" yet only one "race" was mentioned in the "joke" proper and two total in the entire post, and the "joke" didn’t overtly involve it as an issue.  I really believe these types are no better than real racists because they _think_ they are being righteous without even knowing much about the labels _they_ are so ready to go slapping on people. Richard, the joke you posted did not suprise me. What suprised me is that you apparently thought the joke was funny enough to share.

OK, time to come clean, I guess – the original joke was told to me without the race of the girl or the nationality of the others seemingly being important.  I think it was meant to be strictly a "Jewish lawyer" joke – told to me _by_ a Jewish lawyer, BTW.  I have no idea if the French and Italians (I think they were included because if the "Oo-la-la" and "Mama mia" factors – itself somewhat of a stereotype, however) were being purposefully stereotyped by the writer, but I am fairly sure they were not by the person who related it to me.  I happened to notice those somewhat less obvious stereotypes, and hence, it seemed a good basis for the point of my post. That said, you’re (obviously) free to continue to post whatever jokes you feel like posting. In the future, what would you have other members of the newsgroup do if they find those jokes offensive?

Well, that really isn’t my business – they are free to respond in any way they wish, as am I, or they are free to ignore it, as am I, or they can killfile all they want.  I guess ROFF is destined to become splintered groups who only see about 10% of the posts.  FWIW, I don’t believe in killfiles (other than in a case as discussed re: costs).  I have enough willpower to simply ignore what I don’t want to read, and certainly enough to not respond to what I don’t want to respond to _after_ having read it.  But I don’t begrudge anyone who wishes to use them. An aside:  IIRC, I have posted what would be termed as "Stereotype" humor 3 times – go back and look at what else was being posted at the time, and reread what I posted in light of that. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Steve

Response:

Is anyone else seeing the "Hard Working Latinos" thread?  And _I_ get branded a racist for a clearly over-the-top post in the midst of it all?  Sheesh…

Are you really unable to see why people would be more likely to respond to your posts than to an infrequent, obvious troll by someone who doesn’t participate in this newsgroup? Richard, the joke you posted did not suprise me. What suprised me is that you apparently thought the joke was funny enough to share. That said, you’re (obviously) free to continue to post whatever jokes you feel like posting. In the future, what would you have other members of the newsgroup do if they find those jokes offensive? –Steve

Response:

These threads are obviously being filtered by somebody with a lot of sense at server propagation levels, probably due to cross-posting. I have seen no posts about racist poets or Latinos. If not for some of the replies here, I would not have known of them.  Really just another piece of useless knowledge I could happily dispense with. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is anyone else seeing the "Hard Working Latinos" thread?  And _I_ get branded a racist for a clearly over-the-top post in the midst of it all?  Sheesh…

Response:

I started getting them again. The original was sent to many newsgroups and it gets picked up occasionally. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIPPED

Response:

Did it get filtered or did your server miss it. The original post went to a bunch of newsgroups. I replied to only this one. I think rw may be correct since the host node that the message was sent from did not match any of the email addresses. The host was on Frontier Internet. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken you want to respond to this one? Interesting that my newsgroup filter blocked the original message, but I’ve never filtered the supposed author.   Probably from some other regular troublemaker.   (Could have lived without the repost, though.) Joe F.

Response:

Did it get filtered or did your server miss it. The original post went to a bunch of newsgroups. I replied to only this one.

Bellsout.net filters out crossposted spam, I’m not sure how many crossposted newsgroups in a post it takes to get filtered – maybe 10 or so. — Charlie…

Response:

Geez, Paul, did you have to quote that thing?  My ISP was nice enough to filter it for me…

<snipped

Response:

Ken you want to respond to this one?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "the threat of negroe sperm"  Black and ugly  nigger sperm  get it in you  it grows like a worm  once inside  a maggot sprouts  nine months later  a monster jumps out!!!! — — Brookings, S.D. | My private address appears on the left.   itctel .com   | http://members.fortunecity.com/jvipond/

Response:

Paul G asked: Ken you want to respond to this one?<

Why bother?  Unless you respond to his ISP, of course.

Response:

Ken you want to respond to this one?

My guess is that someone is trying to screw James Vipond. No one in his right mind would attach his name to this sort of thing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Ken you want to respond to this one?

Interesting that my newsgroup filter blocked the original message, but I’ve never filtered the supposed author.   Probably from some other regular troublemaker.   (Could have lived without the repost, though.) Joe F.

Response:

Ken you want to respond to this one? Interesting that my newsgroup filter blocked the original message, but I’ve never filtered the supposed author.   Probably from some other regular troublemaker.   (Could have lived without the repost, though.)

I didn’t see the original either. — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Hi John, What kind of flies and how do you fish for the mullet? aloha, Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii

Response:

Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

My thoughts exactly regarding line catching.  Heck, for years, they were considered the worst of trash fish, from Mississippi around and down, even to the point of racial slurs.  Plus, in oyster season (cold weather), keep a few, gut them and slow smoke them head-on, bone-in over a hickory or equivilent (fruitwoods aren’t my favorite here) fire.  Then flake the flesh (no skin) and mix with cream cheese (about 1 to 1), Lea and Perrin (Worchestershire), thyme, salt, pepper, and lemon juice, and serve with Melba, Carr’s, or other firmer crackers and cold dry white wine. Yum, boy… R

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

here you go. The answer is neutral density. as you know mullet sift through sand and mud,and get their heads down to feed,and this is also true of our golden grey mullet. these fish operate on the very edge of the tide,sometimes in 5-6 inches of water,so you actually cast back to the shore,from maybe 75 feet,so as not to spook the fish or shoal. the fly is cast approx 5-6 feet in front of the feeding pattern, and this is something which is learned,as on different tides the fish often take different routes toward shore. but to cut a very long story short,a well presented fly in the size 10 and smaller size range is best. Bent back,and using a basically dusky dirty pink,body of wool,with plastic bead chain eyes,and with a trigger colored tail. i cannot really get more specific at this stage,but presentation,seems more important than shape,and color seems to be a factor also. in water thats less than 6 feet a red tail is effective,but in very shallow water a lime green tail is king. throughout the year,i`ll get the patterns standardised and publish them. along with the techniques required foer each fly. I know you americans loathe the mullet somewhat,but they are indeed a worthy quarry,in fact as hard to catch as any permit. I know,cause i`ve caught both,and they can be very very frustrating. — Keith.

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Well, maybe I misunderstood Mr Popp, but when I’ve caught them or seen them caught, it was by accident while fishing for something else.  I have no idea, other the a cast net, (when we want a couple to smoke ourselves ((Rather than buying)), we’ll carry a net while floundering) what one would use SPECIFICALLY to catch them.  I guess use a shrimp or streamer and pretend you’re after redfish or striped bass….a bone pattern and pretend you’re after bones….<G? R

Response:

good advice SNIPPED for bw.. I know you americans loathe the mullet somewhat,but they are indeed a worthy quarry,in fact as hard to catch as any permit. I know,cause i`ve caught both,and they can be very very frustrating. — Keith.

I’ll be damned!  I know of many old-timers that would be (be)mused…Fly-fishing specifically for mullet…hey, fishing is fishing, and this sounds fun, plus you can eat the catch…The only thing I can add is the above-mentioned pretense of being after game fish, as that usually insures at least one or two…<G.   One thought, however, is possible that we are talking about different species of fish?  I know of white and striped, but not golden, plus your mention of "hard to catch as any permit."  Your "mullet" isn’t some form of Pompano, is it? TC, R

Response:

Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E.

Ah,yes you can catch mullet like this,but is it really fly fishing ?. i think not. you could also toss a hand grenade at the mullet,and stun them,walk on over and scoop them up in your hand. Unfortunatly,this would not be too much fun,for me or the mullet. I`m actually taking a purists view,that fly caught fish should be just that.Fly caught without the assistance of chum,or any other aid. One rod,one fly,one fish. At least thats the way i like to do it. Also in no way would i compare the fighting qualities to that of bonefish. i was refering to the habits of the fish. but then again,on the right gear,which seems to be a 6#wt outfit,they display fine fighting ability. Its like comparing a stock rainbow trout that weighs 8lb,and last saw a man feeding it trout pellets,to the wild rainbow of the mountain stream that weighs only 2lb. ask yourself which would be the better and most rewarding catch ?. Thats why i choose to flyfish in saltwater here.Its never been done on my doorstep,and its all a new and very rewarding experience,no matter what the species. — Keith.

Response:

Want to catch mullet on a fly without chuming? There’s a way to do that too. It’s much more challenging than the bread ball trick. Ask (better yet, hire) Capt. Steve Kantner from the Fort Lauderdale area. He’s the expert. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E. Ah,yes you can catch mullet like this,but is it really fly fishing ?. i think not. you could also toss a hand grenade at the mullet,and stun them,walk on over and scoop them up in your hand. Unfortunatly,this would not be too much fun,for me or the mullet. I`m actually taking a purists view,that fly caught fish should be just that.Fly caught without the assistance of chum,or any other aid. One rod,one fly,one fish. At least thats the way i like to do it. Also in no way would i compare the fighting qualities to that of bonefish. i was refering to the habits of the fish. but then again,on the right gear,which seems to be a 6#wt outfit,they display fine fighting ability. Its like comparing a stock rainbow trout that weighs 8lb,and last saw a man feeding it trout pellets,to the wild rainbow of the mountain stream that weighs only 2lb. ask yourself which would be the better and most rewarding catch ?. Thats why i choose to flyfish in saltwater here.Its never been done on my doorstep,and its all a new and very rewarding experience,no matter what the species. — Keith.

Response:

Any small brown subsurface fly works. They are normally vegetarian but will on occasion think a fly floating vegetation. If it is slow going you can start a feeding frenzy with chicken feed. Take a handful, dip your hand in the water and mash the feed into a ball. Throw it out into the water. When the swirls are hot and heavy flip the fly into the melee and hang on. John Popp in Sanford Fl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John, What kind of flies and how do you fish for the mullet? aloha, Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl. — Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii

Response:

When they are jumping they are ridding themselves of vermin and don’t give a fig for eating. Ever try to get a dog to do something in the middle of a flea scratch ? John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Response:

SNIPPED Heck, for years, they were considered the worst of trash fish, from Mississippi around and down, even to the point of racial slurs

Funny isn’t it! – Same thing the world over. If we fished near a sewer outlet, we used to laugh about catching a "blind mullet". Cheers JK

Response:

Question:

To catch squawfish, fish for stripers on the Sacramento River. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the northwest they bring $5 @ over 12". anyone know where i can find information on how to catch "em?

Response:

in the northwest they bring $5 @ over 12". anyone know where i can find information on how to catch "em?

Response:

It’s pretty easy to catch them. Just fish like you would for Trout. They eat about the same things. I actually enjoy catching them when I can’t catch anything else  2 years ago I was fishing Mayfield Lake in Washington and the Small Mouth fishing was a bit slow so we headed over to a shallow bay and started fishing the shoreline with some Beadhead Hairs ears. As we slowly stipped the fly away from the shore they would nail it as it dropped off the edge. My friend and I must have caught a couple hundred in a few hours! It was a lot of fun and saved what up to that point had been a really slow day of fishing. Gary —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the northwest they bring $5 @ over 12". anyone know where i can find information on how to catch "em?

Response:

To catch squawfish, fish for stripers on the Sacramento River. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org)

To Mr. Gillespie’s response: ROFLMAO!!! To add to what Mr. Gillespie has already pointed out, one can catch sqauwfish simply by fishing for ANYTHING in California’s Russian River. Fred, these fish aren’t too picky. They take roe intended for salmon and steelhead; streamer flies meant for smallmouth bass (they also take dry flies & popper flies). Crawlers work as well as livers. I’ve seen some in the 6 pound range caught in the Russian on livers intended for catfish. Bryan

Response:

The major problem with Squawfish fishing and reduction is that when you hook one, it releases chemicals that warn the others in the school of danger.  If you find a school in the river, lots of schools in the Eel above Lake Pillsbury, you will catch maybe 2 and then nothing will bite for a while. By The Way Dale, I think the politically correct name is now Sacramento Perch Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To catch squawfish, fish for stripers on the Sacramento River. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org) To Mr. Gillespie’s response: ROFLMAO!!! To add to what Mr. Gillespie has already pointed out, one can catch sqauwfish simply by fishing for ANYTHING in California’s Russian River. Fred, these fish aren’t too picky. They take roe intended for salmon and steelhead; streamer flies meant for smallmouth bass (they also take dry flies & popper flies). Crawlers work as well as livers. I’ve seen some in the 6 pound range caught in the Russian on livers intended for catfish. Bryan

Response:

Good idea. I have written a couple of fishing reports where I mentioned catching squawfish. I think Sacrament Perch is an improvement. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By The Way Dale, I think the politically correct name is now Sacramento Perch Bill

Response:

No, it’s Sacramento Perch, unless you are Catholic and catch it Sunday while playing hooky from church. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good idea. I have written a couple of fishing reports where I mentioned catching squawfish. I think Sacrament Perch is an improvement. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org) By The Way Dale, I think the politically correct name is now Sacramento Perch Bill

Response:

A Freudian slip. One of my Sacraments is fishing. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it’s Sacramento Perch, unless you are Catholic and catch it Sunday while playing hooky from church. Bill Good idea. I have written a couple of fishing reports where I mentioned catching squawfish. I think Sacrament Perch is an improvement. — Dale Gillespie Boating and fishing the Californiadelta(.org) By The Way Dale, I think the politically correct name is now Sacramento Perch Bill

Response:

It’s pretty easy to catch them. Just fish like you would for Trout. They eat about the same things. I actually enjoy catching them when I can’t catch anything else  2 years ago I was fishing Mayfield Lake in Washington and the Small Mouth fishing was a bit slow so we headed over to a shallow bay and started fishing the shoreline with some Beadhead Hairs ears. As we slowly stipped the fly away from the shore they would nail it as it dropped off the edge. My friend and I must have caught a couple hundred in a few hours! It was a lot of fun and saved what up to that point had been a really slow day of fishing. Gary

As the first poster mentioned, there is a bounty on squawfish in Washington since they eat baby salmon and roe. Not sure if it’s for all waters though, could be just the Snake and Columbia. I’ve heard of some people who make themselves some good money off squawfish bounties, though. Heck, if I lived near enough to either of those rivers, I’d be out all the time. Fishing for money with squawfish bounties is like having your cake and eating it too, since you’re being paid for fishing and helping salmon at the same time Mega Man fans visit alt.games.megaman Quint’s page of Rockman manga scans: http://www.crosswinds.net/~sakugarne

Response:

I’m curious: is this bounty actually justified, or is it like the bounty on Dolly Varden and (I think?) Bull Trout many years ago which decimated those fish. Again, just curious. Alex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s pretty easy to catch them. Just fish like you would for Trout. They eat about the same things. I actually enjoy catching them when I can’t catch anything else  2 years ago I was fishing Mayfield Lake in Washington and the Small Mouth fishing was a bit slow so we headed over to a shallow bay and started fishing the shoreline with some Beadhead Hairs ears. As we slowly stipped the fly away from the shore they would nail it as it dropped off the edge. My friend and I must have caught a couple hundred in a few hours! It was a lot of fun and saved what up to that point had been a really slow day of fishing. Gary As the first poster mentioned, there is a bounty on squawfish in Washington since they eat baby salmon and roe. Not sure if it’s for all waters though, could be just the Snake and Columbia. I’ve heard of some people who make themselves some good money off squawfish bounties, though. Heck, if I lived near enough to either of those rivers, I’d be out all the time. Fishing for money with squawfish bounties is like having your cake and eating it too, since you’re being paid for fishing and helping salmon at the same time Mega Man fans visit alt.games.megaman Quint’s page of Rockman manga scans: http://www.crosswinds.net/~sakugarne

Response:

in the northwest they bring $5 @ over 12". anyone know where i can find information on how to catch "em?

I believe that both Washington and Oregon pay a bounty for Squaws fish caught on certain waters.  For the last few years in the state of Oregon  there has been classes on how to catch them and tournements.   I’ve heard of some fishermen making a good summer wage off of harvesting Squaws.  Check with the fish and game or the BPA, i’m sure they can help you out. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Snip, Snip! As the first poster mentioned, there is a bounty on squawfish in Washington since they eat baby salmon and roe. Not sure if it’s for all waters though, could be just the Snake and Columbia.

Apparently, there is talk of a squawfish derby for the Eel River in California. See http://www.fishsniffer.com for details. On the homepage, scroll down to the section titled "ARTICLES" and click on the "Pike Minnow Derby" for more info. Maybe derbies for the Russian and Navarro Rivers will arise in the near future Bryan

Response:

Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

Response:

I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

Response:

: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

Response:

Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Response:

I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

Response:

David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

Response:

I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

Response:

In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

Response:

Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

Response:

I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

Response:

It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

Response:

writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

Response:

David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

Response:

Question:

We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

Jon, You might try the New Haven and Middlebury Rivers in Bristol and Middlebury.  I haven’t been there this year yet, but I understand they are fishing well. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

I was on the Battenkill at the weekend. Water temp was 58-60. Sporadic Hendriksons, no risers though. Might be a bit early yet, but I was talking to the F&W guy and he said there had been feeding fish over the past few days. I think it is worth a shot this weekend. You have to see that hatch in action as those big fly lie thick on the surface of backwaters. Another river worth trying is the Mettawee, about 5 miles west of Manchester. There are public access spots off the highway. This has a nice head of browns, brookies and rainbows. Finally as you head north on route 7, there is Otter Creek paralleling the road most of the way. Again some public access spots, but as this river is heavily stocked expect these points to be busy. Hike up or downstream. Otter Creek has good hatches and holds some beauties (my best is 16" brookie). Sorry I have no up to date stream reports, but I am confident you’ll catch fish assuming the rivers are in good condition. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

yesterday, I said:

      in general all the streams are down to fishable levels. I should know better than to spout stuff like that.  No sooner had I finished saying this than the skies opened up, the mighty deluge began, and the NWS started issuing flash flood warnings all over the place.  In 12 hours the New Haven River (my home stream) went from its normal 400 cfs to 5500 cfs.  :-( Now it’s back down to about 1400 cfs, but it still looks like chocolate milk. Should be back to normal in a couple days, though. Cheers, — Dave "the jinx" Guertin http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/

Response:

    Jon We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the     Jon flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland     Jon area and hitting all the streams around that area. Jon, There are a number of streams in the Rutland area worth checking out. I can’t comment on how they’re fishing right now, but in general all the streams are down to fishable levels.  A couple weeks ago when I was last out, the water was clear but still extremely cold and fishing was slow.  By now things should be picking up considerably. The Mettawee is not too far from Rutland, and is usually excellent. Upper Otter Creek is probably worth checking out, too.  Across the mountains, the White and Black Rivers are also close and very good. Check out my Trout Streams of Vermont page (http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/) for a guide to all the streams in the area.  Not much in the way of descriptions yet, but there are maps, and it’s nice to see what rivers are where. Cheers, — Dave Guertin http://caddis.middlebury.edu/trout/

Response:

We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me.

Jon, I have read the other posts folks have put up to help you, but I really would suggest streams less well-known.  Two of these are the Furnace Brook and Castleton River.  Both of these smaller streams will most certainly be running clear and fishable.  For the most part, the other streams suggested are running very high and are muddy at best.  There was flooding  in both the CT River Valley and Otter Valley last night.  If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to help. James Ehlers, Editor Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

Response:

The ‘Kill was 58-60 this early??? Am I missing something, or is this a little warm for this time of the year? Hopefully we’re not looking at temps like last summer again!!! Alex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was on the Battenkill at the weekend. Water temp was 58-60. Sporadic Hendriksons, no risers though. Might be a bit early yet, but I was talking to the F&W guy and he said there had been feeding fish over the past few days. I think it is worth a shot this weekend. You have to see that hatch in action as those big fly lie thick on the surface of backwaters. Another river worth trying is the Mettawee, about 5 miles west of Manchester. There are public access spots off the highway. This has a nice head of browns, brookies and rainbows. Finally as you head north on route 7, there is Otter Creek paralleling the road most of the way. Again some public access spots, but as this river is heavily stocked expect these points to be busy. Hike up or downstream. Otter Creek has good hatches and holds some beauties (my best is 16" brookie). Sorry I have no up to date stream reports, but I am confident you’ll catch fish assuming the rivers are in good condition. Gary We are headed off to Vermont in a few days to check out the flyfishing scene up there. We’ll be camping in the Rutland area and hitting all the streams around that area. Of course, we’ll also make at least one stop Orvis while we are there. Anybody have anything to share about what streams are good right now? This is going to be my first time ever in the New England area, so it’s all new to me. — Jon Porter http://www.Netwalk.com/~jporter/Backpage.htm

Response:

Joe, Trout season ends Oct 27.  Caddis pupa and larva are always good choices on VT streams.  It is tough to say what exactly will be coming off that far in advance, especially this year with our water levels very high and temps cool.  Typically, tricos, isonychias and pseudocloeon are hatching during that window.  E -mail closer to your trip for more specific conditions. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service (#2298) If you would like more info on my service including western style fly fishing drift boat trips, send me your postal address and I’ll send you my brochure. Cheers, James

Response:

I am planning one or two trips to Vermont this fall. I will stay at Sugarbush. My ???? are ….#1 When does the season end? Can I plan a Columbus Day trip. Also,(#2) Has the fall fishing got going by Sept 20- would a late Sept. trip be worth while? #3 Can anybody suggest what flies to use? I am planning to try caddis flies and a variety of terrestials. joe hardman TIA

Response:

Question:

: I just located a 9 ft rod and the only ID is South Bend. There is no : line wt info on the rod. It has the original cloth bag and alum case. : Does anyone know anything about these rods other than made in Indiana? Seen quite a few of those rods come into the shop. They are usally not worth much in value, but they can be good fishing tools. South Bend is still around making tackle. Jon Porter

Response:

I just located a 9 ft rod and the only ID is South Bend. There is no line wt info on the rod. It has the original cloth bag and alum case. Does anyone know anything about these rods other than made in Indiana?

Yes,  South Bend bought out Cross Rods when Wes Jordan was running the show.  As part of the deal he agreed to work for a few years for South Bend to get their rod production running smoothly.  South Bend was not real interested in making the top quality rods that Cross Rods did under Wes Jordan, but rather wanted to produce lots of rods.  Wes Jordan got all the machinery designed, built, and put into use and got out as quickly as he could. South Bend made what are known as "production" rods.  The detail work – such as making all the strips from one culm of bamboo for consistency of fiber density – were passed over in favor of quick production.  If you look at the nodes on the rod you will often find two of them side by side which makes a weak dead spot in the rod.  The varnish was usually good and the wraps were well done, but the rods were mediocre overall. They did use Tonkin cane of decent quality and many of the rods fish quite well. They are a bit heavy though.  I have a 3pc. 2 tip 9ft for a HDH (6 wt.) and it casts pretty well.  I take it out about once a year for half a day and then put it away because it is like swinging a tree through the air – HEAVY!  A South Bend in mint condition might draw as much as $150, but more likely ~$50.                                       Hope this helps,                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

I just located a 9 ft rod and the only ID is South Bend. There is no line wt info on the rod. It has the original cloth bag and alum case. Does anyone know anything about these rods other than made in Indiana?

Response: